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Author Topic: Finding it difficult to be angry. Feel stuck Help  (Read 456 times)
lovethebeach
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« on: December 03, 2014, 09:11:31 AM »

Hey Guys!

I need some advice. Its' been 6 weeks since b/u and 1 month NC. I think I have made a lot of progress in certain areas, but... .

I'm finding it difficult to truly move forward because I'm finding it difficult to be angry. It's like I attribute his behavior to his mental illness and then I feel bad for him and I get stuck.

I should be angry for the way he treated me. The cheating. The lying. The way it ended.

I should mention I work in health care and a very empathetic person But... .the more I read about BPD, the more difficult I'm finding it to be angry! I feel stuck! Help!
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guy4caligirl
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« Reply #1 on: December 03, 2014, 09:24:41 AM »

Hi you seem that you have a good heart , like all of us here .

But .

This person hurt you to the core and many of us , so I am still stuck in the last chapter of the processing stage .

I tried to stay calm and nice in an LC with  my ex .

I have had it, Smiling (click to insert in post) 5 months now and she plays the same song over and over .

I am angry at her yes , I feel if don't , she get's her way of manipulating me , Enough is enough .Tell it like it Is !

I finally told her in texts how disappointed and angry I am with her and she says "I delete your texts before reading " but on the other hand she tells me you said that a few days ago ?

So I know she does and finally I showed her that I am going to Stop contacting her ,get angry it's ok why would you want to continue to be miserable while they really don't give $hit about us really ?
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OutOfEgypt
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« Reply #2 on: December 03, 2014, 09:27:54 AM »

Well, I wouldn't try to force any type of feeling, really, but what I sense is that you recognize that you still see him as a victim and therefore want to let the rules for behavior be different for him.  I would be concerned about that, too.  :)o you have a T to work with?

Anger and love/compassion are not mutually exclusive feelings.  One can still feel angry and hurt by a person, even when one knows that they are completely clueless and don't even know what they are doing.

But BPD people do know what they are doing.  They just live in this ever-conflicted state... .one part of them always avoiding blame and responsibility, another part of them knowing exactly what they do but not really caring about who it hurts, another part of them feeling endless shame and emptiness. But I could probably explain to you how being a hurt person doesn't make it okay to hurt other people all day long, and it wouldn't help, because it is about *him*... .not just some person.  You're still buying into the idea that he's some "poor thing."

I've known three BPD people in my life, that I know of.  My ex wife I've known the longest, but there are two friends of my girlfriend who are clearly different subtypes of BPD, as well -one of them has been actually diagnosed.  And I can say this... .on one hand, I can see how sad their existence is, but on the other hand I can only see how much heartache and pain and suffering and hurt they cause other people.  

It reminds me of the Boston Marathon bombing.  It wasn't long before the bomber's picture was placarded all over magazine covers, with touchy-feely articles discussing how he's really a victim of this or that.  That's lovely, but what about the people who had their legs blown off and will never walk again?

I think the real issue is probably that you are used to burying those feelings and telling yourself that you don't matter.  And if you don't matter, then you being betrayed and hurt isn't a big deal... .at least not as big a deal as the "poor situation" your ex is in.  But that isn't true.

Are you seeing a Therapist?  The kind of Therapist that really helped me break through these self-destructive defense mechanisms was a Therapist who specializes in something called ISTDP (intensive short-term dynamic psychotherapy).  I've never done anything else like it.
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lovethebeach
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« Reply #3 on: December 03, 2014, 09:49:14 AM »

OutofEgypt:

Tried to PM you, but your inbox is full! Your advice is always so helpful! Hope you are doing well Smiling (click to insert in post)

"But BPD people do know what they are doing.  They just live in this ever-conflicted state... .one part of them always avoiding blame and responsibility, another part of them knowing exactly what they do but not really caring about who it hurts, another part of them feeling endless shame and emptiness."

Ultimately, I think it's why he left. He just couldnt take responsibility and once I caught him again ... .he was full of shame and guilt. He ran from me in order to avoid feeling bad.

"And I can say this... .on one hand, I can see how sad their existence is, but on the other hand I can only see how much heartache and pain and suffering and hurt they cause other people."

I have a T appointment on Tuesday. Hoping to work through more of this and I will look into ISTDP.

How were you able to stop seeing them as victims? I feel like this keeps me stuck and unable to move forward because I feel bad for him ... .even though I know did more than anyone else to help him and in the end, was discarded.



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OutOfEgypt
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« Reply #4 on: December 03, 2014, 09:57:26 AM »

Haha.  Someone else told me that, too!  I cleaned up my inbox this morning, so hopefully PM's will come through, now.

How was I able to stop seeing my ex as a victim?  I think it was a combination of three things: 1) Therapy, and 2) Seeing that she was essentially treating our children the same way, and 3) Distance (temporal and spatial).  I still have flashbacks of crazy things I completely forgot about, but I no longer see myself at fault for her behavior.  I guess you could say that I had been cheated on enough... .I don't care how "sick" someone is, if they are going to hurt people like that then they should get treatment.  She knows, deep down, there is something wrong with her, but she prefers to live on the surface where she thinks she's great, can get attention from people, and surround herself with people who will buy her rouse for a time.

Another part of it was realizing how much I had hurt other people because of her.  I had hurt people in both her family and mine because I was so adamant on taking her side against them -since she always painted herself as a victim and painted them black, as though they never did anything for her and never loved her.  But it wasn't true.  My parents did a lot for her and loved her, and her family is dysfunctional but man... .they aren't as bad as she makes them out to be.  And I realized I had hurt them by taking her side, and I alienated myself from a lot of people just to hold onto her.
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guy4caligirl
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« Reply #5 on: December 03, 2014, 10:17:19 AM »

Haha.  Someone else told me that, too!  I cleaned up my inbox this morning, so hopefully PM's will come through, now.

How was I able to stop seeing my ex as a victim?  I think it was a combination of three things: 1) Therapy, and 2) Seeing that she was essentially treating our children the same way, and 3) Distance (temporal and spatial).  I still have flashbacks of crazy things I completely forgot about, but I no longer see myself at fault for her behavior.  I guess you could say that I had been cheated on enough... .I don't care how "sick" someone is, if they are going to hurt people like that then they should get treatment.  She knows, deep down, there is something wrong with her, but she prefers to live on the surface where she thinks she's great, can get attention from people, and surround herself with people who will buy her rouse for a time.

Out of Egypt

Thank god I never fell for her being the victim , around my family or hers , she painted all of them black and did some awful  things to get under their skin and expected me to stand by her witch's not even once I stood with what's right and it was a big turn off for her . I am glad  I stood up for what's right .The last incident ended up causing her to really leave for good  , I still don't regret it at all It's just had to happen . I couldn't kick her out in five years feeling that she will be crushed if I did, Oh yeah Crushed she was indeed  Laugh out loud (click to insert in post)







Another part of it was realizing how much I had hurt other people because of her.  I had hurt people in both her family and mine because I was so adamant on taking her side against them -since she always painted herself as a victim and painted them black, as though they never did anything for her and never loved her.  But it wasn't true.  My parents did a lot for her and loved her, and her family is dysfunctional but man... .they aren't as bad as she makes them out to be.  And I realized I had hurt them by taking her side, and I alienated myself from a lot of people just to hold onto her.

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OutOfEgypt
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« Reply #6 on: December 03, 2014, 10:28:54 AM »

Excerpt
Thank god I never fell for her being the victim , around my family or hers , she painted all of them black and did some awful  things to get under their skin and expected me to stand by her witch's not even once I stood with what's right and it was a big turn off for her . I am glad  I stood up for what's right .The last incident ended up causing her to really leave for good  , I still don't regret it at all It's just had to happen . I couldn't kick her out in five years feeling that she will be crushed if I did, Oh yeah Crushed she was indeed  Laugh out loud (click to insert in post)

The sad thing is that I thought standing up for her *was* right, even though deep down I felt she was completely exaggerating.  It shows up deep in the FOG I was.

I found out later, when I restored relationships with some of these folks, that there were pieces of the puzzle that I did not see... .like her text-message threats to "strangle" my mother and "punch her in the face" if she "ever had to see her face again."
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lovethebeach
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« Reply #7 on: December 03, 2014, 10:32:48 AM »

He too was always the victim!

I often wonder what will happen to my ex?

S[he] knows, deep down, there is something wrong with her, but she prefers to live on the surface where she thinks she's great, can get attention from people, and surround herself with people who will buy her rouse for a time.

I don't know if my ex will ever truly seek treatment. He is young, but through out relationship learned about BPD and maybe, just maybe it'll be his saving grace one day. I tried so desperately to help him and open his eyes. If I had to guess ... .he'll continue to self destruct. I can only hope he gets real help one day.

I am glad I haven't lost myself completely... .I know I'm better off without him as much as it does hurt and I definitely have a better understanding through all my reading.

I just need to stop viewing him as a victim. It's hard to do because I know his upbringing and how hard it was.

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Caredverymuch
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« Reply #8 on: December 03, 2014, 10:39:00 AM »

[quote author=lovethebeach

How were you able to stop seeing them as victims? I feel like this keeps me stuck and unable to move forward because I feel bad for him ... .even though I know did more than anyone else to help him and in the end, was discarded.[/quote]
How you stop seeing them as a victim is to replace the word with disordered.  They are mentally ill and the pros and cons of the entire r/s were a result of a very disordered psyche.

Its difficult for a caregiving type of persons to really embrace this. We have very empathic hearts and as medical professionals, which I too and many other members are here as well,  its extremely challenging to have to step away from someone we cant fix. But we cant fix this.  

We remain here trying to heal bc we are not disordered. Our grief and our empathy are signs of our very real emotional fabric.  Its understandable that we hurt and grieve greatly from this experience and if you change your view from "victim" to "disordered" you can begin to see the difference.

We caregivers make such ready partners to pBPD and we are shattered as a result of the rescuing, emeshment, and intimate harsh and cruel discardment w no closure.  
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OutOfEgypt
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« Reply #9 on: December 03, 2014, 10:52:18 AM »

Since this board is anonymous, I don't mind sharing this:  

My uBPD ex wife was sexually abused as a child.  She was also raised in a dysfunctional family without any real father figure.

My current girlfriend was also sexually abused as a child -by one of the main father figures in her life and by others.  Her mother allowed it to happen and never helped her.

There's more to each story, but by all accounts my current girlfriend has been through worse than my ex wife.  Sexual abuse, rape, abandoned by her mother into the hands of these predators, married to a physically and verbally abusive spouse whom she married young, etc.

But my girlfriend is not a sadist.  She does not play victim.  She is not selfish.  She does not project and blame-shift all the time.  She is not a liar and a cheater.  She has been through a lot and worked through a lot, and she has never once acted like the world owes her something or like it is my (or anyone's job) to carry her crap and be subject to abuse.

Everyone has a tale of woe (including us!).  :)oes that mean we can go around, now, and destroy people, always acting like its because of the bad childhood or bad relationship we just came out of?  No.

That whole thing about them being these poor little puppies is an act, a persona they unconsciously (and consciously) project.  Not everyone who has been abused and hurt acts like they do.  Time to step out of the FOG.  Remember... .the hooks they use to control us are fear, obligation, and guilt.  If they can get you to believe a) you need them and are afraid of losing them, b) are obligated to give them what they demand, and/or c) that you are being "mean" if you see them in a negative light, they have won.  My ex cannot stand when I (or anyone) sees her negatively.
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OutOfEgypt
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« Reply #10 on: December 03, 2014, 10:59:05 AM »

Even if you have already read this article, it is worth checking out again:

https://bpdfamily.com/bpdresources/nk_a101.htm

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lovethebeach
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« Reply #11 on: December 03, 2014, 11:14:12 AM »

We haven't spoken in a month and during our last interaction (after my car accident) He seemed pretty cold and indifferent. It was like speaking to a different person, so I vowed to (myself) not contact him again. Once he was caught continuously in lies, it was easier to remove me than to do the hard work required for our relationship. I didn't expect it all to happen in that manner, but nothing is predictable with him.

Here are things I know for certain:

1. He's a liar.

2. He a cheat.

3. He plays the victim role

4. Although I have trouble accepting ... .he is selfish.

How long before you got to "freedom?" I feel as though I'm stuck in processing. Although, I take useful things from the relationship, I keep digging for a why... .instead of accepting that he is distorted (diagnosed or not). Ultimately, the BPD doesnt mater because the above list is true and so it doesn't change the outcome. As much as I wanted a life with him, the road would have been long, hard and maybe a path to no where... .

My T told me a story: She said someone took care of a snake for years. Then one day, the snake bit them and they asked the snake ... "why did you bite me?" To which the snake replied, "I am a snake.

Food for thought... .



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OutOfEgypt
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« Reply #12 on: December 03, 2014, 11:24:08 AM »

Haha.  That is a great analogy with the snake.  And yes, I understand.  Even if my ex was never officially diagnosed, I know what I know... .and I cannot un-know what I know!

How long?  It took me some time, some steady work with my T, but a lot of that time was spent STILL in a relationship with her, so I'm sure that added to the time.  Keep at it.  Keep working on it.  Sometimes, I notice I still have that part of me that feels badly for her.  I don't think that is abnormal.  I still remember some good times, too.  But I know what I know, and I keep it in my memory banks so that I will always keep her out.  I have little sensors that trigger when she is getting too close, and it keeps me in check to keep her out.

Basically, stepping out of the FOG means facing a lot of painful and hard feelings and beginning the trek to really emotionally say goodbye to them.  So, there is clearly a lot of unconscious resistance to doing this.  There will not only be anger in there, but there will be gut-wrenching sorrow and love.  There will probably be some guilt, too, as you realize you are leaving him behind to wallow in his lonely cave of dysfunction.  As you face those things, you will realize how much of yourself you put into this relationship and into him, and how much he actually abandoned you.  You will see how it was like loving a person who would not be loved, who would not really receive you, and that will be the source of all of those painful feelings.  As you face them, you will see that they are true, and it will change your perspective on what you went through.  You will also grow to stop seeing his "sad, needy eyes", in your mind's eye, as indicating love.  You will see them as indicating their "need", which is very, very different.
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lovethebeach
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« Reply #13 on: December 03, 2014, 11:37:37 AM »

"There will not only be anger in there, but there will be gut-wrenching sorrow and love.  There will probably be some guilt, too, as you realize you are leaving him behind to wallow in his lonely cave of dysfunction.  As you face those things, you will realize how much of yourself you put into this relationship and into him, and how much he actually abandoned you.  You will see how it was like loving a person who would not be loved, who would not really receive you, and that will be the source of all of those painful feelings.  As you face them, you will see that they are true, and it will change your perspective on what you went through.  You will also grow to stop seeing his "sad, needy eyes", in your mind's eye, as indicating love.  You will see them as indicating their "need", which is very, very different."

EXACTLY. You just summed up how I feel! GUT WRENCHING! I poured ALL of myself into it... .my blood, sweat and tears and in the end he did abandon me! He left after he was caught red handed! God, that hurts. How did you know?  Laugh out loud (click to insert in post)

Him and I have no reason to be in contact, so it definitely helps. But I need to work on "feeling bad" for him. It's what keeps me stuck. I'm just not sure how too ... considering it's built into my personality.

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lovethebeach
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« Reply #14 on: December 03, 2014, 09:19:37 PM »

"Sometimes you end up never speaking to someone who meant the world to you again. And that's okay. You cope and you survive. Don't let your losses keep you from new gains."

He meant the world to me and I am doing my best to move forward. J

But the best predictor of future behavior is relevant past behavior and he never contacted his ex's again ... .so I know I'll never hear from him again. Especially, since he's the one who left. When I tried to leave, after I found him cheating he reeled me back in... .for two weeks... .only to leave.

Drives me crazy. What was the point of reeling me back in and "working on things" only to leave? He should've just let me go the first time.


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« Reply #15 on: December 03, 2014, 10:43:06 PM »

Never say never lovethebeach  

I wanted to make a point about anger and grieving the loss of a relationship. The 5 stages of grieving: Denial, Anger, Bargaining, Depression, Acceptance.

They're not necessarily in any order and you may go through one stage more than once. Everyone's experience is different.

On this wheel, which stage do you identify with?
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"Let go or be dragged" -Zen proverb
lovethebeach
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« Reply #16 on: December 04, 2014, 08:15:06 AM »

I think I'm accepting of it. I've passed denial, and bargaining (we haven't spoken in a month and I realize I don't want to have to bargain someone to be with me)... .the depression was also early on, but I can eat and sleep almost normally again. I'm still sad but I wouldn't classify it as depression. I'm functioning again.

But I skipped anger almost entirely... .so I'm wondering where my anger is? Maybe that's the key I'm missing.

I have my first date since the b/u Saturday night and it's a big step for me. Going to take this very slowly.


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