She's Still Trying To Engage Me In Her Life

[Depression = 72% of members]

Background: 6 year r/s, two kids, S4 and D2. She ended the r/s last August,.shortly afterwards I found she had a young jock on the side. 4 months of living together while she conducted the r/s pretty much in my face, while saying they were just friends, and her "mistake" was back in Aug. Going out, often neglecting the kids. I got a "mistaken" text in Nov meant for him where she called him "Love" so that among other things confirmed it for me. She moved out in Feb.

Joint custody and all that's been done. I both got and get the sense that she regrets losing me as a friend. She knows I don't want to spend time with her when she has the kids, though occasionally I'll acquiesce. She started bringing the kids to my church on her Sundays the week after she moved out. Part of it is for the kids, since I had been taking them there since last Sept. Part of it may be a way to keep a connection with me. Another part may be for my approval that she's "trying to be a better mom." Those were her words to me last winter.

I continually get invited to go do stuff with her and the kids, but I rarely do so. This past Sunday, she invited me to go shopping with them, but I declined. Yesterday, S4 commented that I didn't want to go with them because "you had other things to do." Of course that came from his mom, and it pissed me off for a minute, but could she tell him the truth, that Daddy doesn't want to spend time with Mommy? He started up again with his talk about me being at her place and her coming over here and I'm trying to validate him, but it pains me. I talked to a friend the other week and he commented, "are you sure you are divorced, because it doesn't sound like it." I replued that without my boundaries, contact would be far more. That was a good outside perspective.

I had to watch them Sat on her day and night due to some business training thing she had. She was late getting the kids ready, and rather than sitting in the parking lot for half an hour, I accepted her invitation to go into her apartment. My mistake was not holding it until I got home. In the bathroom I saw his and hers towels, deodorant and toothpaste. 

Yes, she's still with The Homewrecker. Realistically though, did I expect her to enter a convent? While my T said she made foolish choices, and definitely left me in an awful way, she's still an independent person who has a right to make her own choices, right or wrong. Radical Acceptance. Even more realistically, he does us all a favor by keeping her relatively stable. Hard to accept but true, even if that   on my shoulder says, "any other guy but him, he contributed to the neglect and abandonment of my children!" Shake it off, and I do often. It's part f what keeps me stuck.

So Sunday she started telling me about the business she is starting. I have a good idea of what it is, and it seems to be a quasi multi-level marketing organization. I keep my opinions to myself, but I sense she is fishing for my wisdom. She asked me to come down and visit the office they were setting up, to see "that it was legitimate." What do I care? I declined politely. She asked me again, almost insisting. At this point, I did what I do a lot with her, channeled my "Joe Carver" (from the leaving a pwBPD article): bland, boring, disinterested... .you get the picture. That's my boundary. She was disappointed, but she let it go. For now.  I keep to myself what that   in me really wants to say, "you're fake, you showed me the real you at the end, you got away with everything, you want to have your cake and eat it too, and I don't like you." I don't want to trigger her, as she was kind to me regarding child support (she gave me a few hundered dollar break per month though she didnt have to---- I swallowed a lot of anguish until the legal issues were signed and done).

So what am I left with? I can "let 'er rip" on what I really feel, even though she knows it, but keeps testing that boundary. She can easily file for more support if she paints me black entirely. That's like The Sword of Damocles over my head for the next 16 years, but it's something I have control, over to a certain extent, because her reactions tend to mirror mine. I can escalate, but is that healthy?

The pups are snuggling soundly in their bed. D2 will likely crawl into my bed in the middle of the night as she usually does. She's still a baby. I can focus my attention on them without having to worry about often D32 in our home. It's our life now, and it's home.

[Turkish]

Background: 6 year r/s, two kids, S4 and D2. She ended the r/s last August,.shortly afterwards I found she had a young jock on the side. 4 months of living together while she conducted the r/s pretty much in my face, while saying they were just friends, and her "mistake" was back in Aug. Going out, often neglecting the kids. I got a "mistaken" text in Nov meant for him where she called him "Love" so that among other things confirmed it for me. She moved out in Feb.

Joint custody and all that's been done. I both got and get the sense that she regrets losing me as a friend. She knows I don't want to spend time with her when she has the kids, though occasionally I'll acquiesce. She started bringing the kids to my church on her Sundays the week after she moved out. Part of it is for the kids, since I had been taking them there since last Sept. Part of it may be a way to keep a connection with me. Another part may be for my approval that she's "trying to be a better mom." Those were her words to me last winter.

I continually get invited to go do stuff with her and the kids, but I rarely do so. This past Sunday, she invited me to go shopping with them, but I declined. Yesterday, S4 commented that I didn't want to go with them because "you had other things to do." Of course that came from his mom, and it pissed me off for a minute, but could she tell him the truth, that Daddy doesn't want to spend time with Mommy? He started up again with his talk about me being at her place and her coming over here and I'm trying to validate him, but it pains me. I talked to a friend the other week and he commented, "are you sure you are divorced, because it doesn't sound like it." I replued that without my boundaries, contact would be far more. That was a good outside perspective.

I had to watch them Sat on her day and night due to some business training thing she had. She was late getting the kids ready, and rather than sitting in the parking lot for half an hour, I accepted her invitation to go into her apartment. My mistake was not holding it until I got home. In the bathroom I saw his and hers towels, deodorant and toothpaste. 

Yes, she's still with The Homewrecker. Realistically though, did I expect her to enter a convent? While my T said she made foolish choices, and definitely left me in an awful way, she's still an independent person who has a right to make her own choices, right or wrong. Radical Acceptance. Even more realistically, he does us all a favor by keeping her relatively stable. Hard to accept but true, even if that   on my shoulder says, "any other guy but him, he contributed to the neglect and abandonment of my children!" Shake it off, and I do often. It's part f what keeps me stuck.

So Sunday she started telling me about the business she is starting. I have a good idea of what it is, and it seems to be a quasi multi-level marketing organization. I keep my opinions to myself, but I sense she is fishing for my wisdom. She asked me to come down and visit the office they were setting up, to see "that it was legitimate." What do I care? I declined politely. She asked me again, almost insisting. At this point, I did what I do a lot with her, channeled my "Joe Carver" (from the leaving a pwBPD article): bland, boring, disinterested... .you get the picture. That's my boundary. She was disappointed, but she let it go. For now.  I keep to myself what that   in me really wants to say, "you're fake, you showed me the real you at the end, you got away with everything, you want to have your cake and eat it too, and I don't like you." I don't want to trigger her, as she was kind to me regarding child support (she gave me a few hundered dollar break per month though she didnt have to---- I swallowed a lot of anguish until the legal issues were signed and done).

So what am I left with? I can "let 'er rip" on what I really feel, even though she knows it, but keeps testing that boundary. She can easily file for more support if she paints me black entirely. That's like The Sword of Damocles over my head for the next 16 years, but it's something I have control, over to a certain extent, because her reactions tend to mirror mine. I can escalate, but is that healthy?

The pups are snuggling soundly in their bed. D2 will likely crawl into my bed in the middle of the night as she usually does. She's still a baby. I can focus my attention on them without having to worry about often D32 in our home. It's our life now, and it's home.

[Aussie JJ]

Turkish,

You, me, many here know more about BPD than our bloody therapists... .  We lived it and afterwards we educated ourselves so that we could understand it... . 

From the attachment perspective, she wants multiple back ups and that validation that she is still a good person, at the moment you still validate her and that means she is good, she gets that attention, so she doesn't hate you.  My separation has been A LOT worse and will get more high conflict than yours.  As many others here have been through it gets worse and worse until the end is in sight and then they back off temporarily. 

Mine has accused me of financial abuse and financially being incompetent.  Yet she asked me for advise (again) after saying that about me.  Go figure. 

You'r in there life as much as they can to get that validation that they seek, they are still good people and you still value them therefore its justifiable they feel good. 

I had my nearly 3 year old son the other day say "fk me"  All happy that he had a new word.  He said it pretty well, articulated it nicely.  I said, that's a bad word, if daddy ever uses it he has to put money in the swear jar.  Because you have used it you need to put a toy in there for the rest of today.  He didn't like this.  I asked him where he learnt it, "Mummy says it to John."     

It will get worse for me.  It will get worse for you as well unless you let it go.  I still haven't, neither have you Turk.  I had the home with the wife and kids dream, she has ruined it, decimated it.  Now she has the younger boyfriend, going back to university and finally free from the shackles of a man who wanted her to settle down and help pay the mortgage!  Wanted her to work and contribute!  Her father is propping her up all along the way at present. 

When university finishes, off she goes to the real world.  When this next business venture flops, off she will move onto the next exciting adventure.  Are you going to offer advice here and risk being accountable for it failing ?  Or the next one.  Or the next one. 

I still spend too much time worrying about my son with his BPD mother.  I tell myself now, she can feed him, she can bath him, she can put him to bed.  That is what she is required to do.  The rest is irrelevant.  The day she is unable to do those 3 things, the day I don't care I take over.  Until then, I will let it play out in court, accept it as it comes and make the most out of my time with my son. 

Don't think about the shopping centre, action #4 on the right, its hard for me but force it, creative action.  I just collected a bucket-load of second hand bricks for when I more out of this house.  I am planning when I move into the next one to build a pizza oven and smoker in the backyard.  It will give me a big project to slave away at and something I have always wanted.  Something for me.  What is something big for you Turkish that you can start planning step by step now and see it through? 

In 10 years your kids will know who dad and who mum is, they will also know who invested that time in them.  One day when my son is 25 or 30, he will ask why it didnt work and his mother will tell him it was my fault.  I'll show him the legal bill when he asks why I abandoned him and her, I'll show him how crazy his mother is then.  I'll show him that I tried and how hard I had to fight to be a part of his life.  That to me, when that conversation happens, that trust that he has in me at that point in time.  Will be reward for everythign I am going through now. 

My advice,

Don't ever go into her house, front door only.  She chose to move out, it is hers and separate to you now. 

Don't ever invite her into your house, front door only.  It is yours now not hers. 

Always politely decline any and every expedition, or if you say yes, make sure you get called into work, always walk away. 

Separate your time from hers, have a clear boundary so that your attachment and bond to your kids is separate to your exBPDw's. 

One thing I have been reading about and practising is all the one liners for the bizarre behaviours to help our kids out, place them on yourself, if I ever do that I have to have this punishment.  I don't do that because of XYZ, time out for daddy he did XYZ wrong.  Don't place them on your exBPDw.  They will see that daddy doesn't do it, and if he ever does their is XYZ consequence.  When mummy does it there is no consequence.  They will learn that structure from you. 

Her foolish choices, not yours.  Own your part and completely cut her out of your life.  Reduce as much as possible. 

Only thing helping me is keeping to a script and reducing contact.  0 emotion.  Yes sir No sir 3 bags full sir. 

My opinion,


AJJ. 

[BrokenFamily]

Turkish,

I read this in tears because I as I'm sure many of us can relate. I applaud your strength, understanding and ability to communicate your feelings

 

[Swiggle]

It is so hard, I'm sorry you are going through this.

[Harlygirl]

Turkish and Aussie... .your insights are invaluable... .Thank you for your guidance.

[Pingo]

Turkish, my heart goes out to you.  I co-parent my son (10) from my first marriage with a non and it is difficult enough!  Can't imagine adding BPD into the mix!  From my experience, it is probably easier in the long run to remain 'bland, boring, disinterested'.  I did this with my first husband.  He is very thick in the head though, still phoned me up often to ramble on about some boring crap about his life even though I showed no interest.  He just loves to hear himself talk.  But it kept the peace for my son.  Since my BU with my uBPDexh I have been trying to have more boundaries with my first husband as I see now that he has been pretty disrespectful to me.  I have been challenging him a lot more on some of the stuff he does with my son. It hasn't been easy though. He is the ':)isneyland' parent, no responsibility, all fun and buying him stuff.  It's very frustrating.  When I call him on this stuff he ends up raging at me like a 12 yr old.  So I have established a 'no texting/no talking' rule unless it's an emergency.  He can communicate by email only.  He has not liked this and is fighting me on this tooth and nail.  But I'm trying to stay strong.  Is it worth it?  Well it causes my son a lot of anxiety bc his Dad is always mad at me and won't hide it.  I feel like I'm stuck in a crappy place, damned if I do, damned if I don't.  Throw BPD in the mix and their ability to paint you black and be vindictive, not sure if it would be worth all the fall-out.

[Aussie JJ]

All of these boundary's are for ourselves not for the pwBPD or the non-BPD exh. 

A simple, 10yoson said you were angry at me again and was asking questions about why I don't communicate with you, it is not my business what you do with 10yoson when you spend time with him as long as he is safe, feed, bathed and put to bed I am happy.  Any communications beyond this and medical, school and disciplinary matters are not required. 

I feel like I am being made out to be a bad parent when I hear 10yoson telling me how angry you are at me for not wishing to communicate about personal matters any longer.  All communications will be about 10yoson only and in this instance it isn't healthy for him to see his father vilifying his mother.  I speak only in positive terms around 10yoson about you when he talks of his father and I would ask the same courtesy be extended to me.  Please do not bring this e-mail up with 10yoson, it is causing him to be put in the middle of a issue that is his parents to resolve and isn't healthy. 

Please note, I am going to get a counsellor for 10yoson to talk through these issues, as I mentioned it is causing him anxiety and stress and he needs to have an outlet that isnt either his mother or father to talk through these things. 

Regards,


Pingo. 




When your son does bring this up, same stratergy, when I am angry at your father, doesnt mean I dont love you.  I will always love you no matter if i am angry, sad or tyred.  These are my problems not yours.  If I am ever like this tell me so I can stop.  These are my issues to work through and I shouldnt put them onto you. 

Eventually, your son will understand that it is your problem, his fathers problem, not his.  He might even start to draw his own boundarys with these discussions happening with his dad.   


AJJ. 

[Pingo]

All of these boundary's are for ourselves not for the pwBPD or the non-BPD exh. 

A simple, 10yoson said you were angry at me again and was asking questions about why I don't communicate with you, it is not my business what you do with 10yoson when you spend time with him as long as he is safe, feed, bathed and put to bed I am happy.  Any communications beyond this and medical, school and disciplinary matters are not required. 

I feel like I am being made out to be a bad parent when I hear 10yoson telling me how angry you are at me for not wishing to communicate about personal matters any longer.  All communications will be about 10yoson only and in this instance it isn't healthy for him to see his father vilifying his mother.  I speak only in positive terms around 10yoson about you when he talks of his father and I would ask the same courtesy be extended to me.  Please do not bring this e-mail up with 10yoson, it is causing him to be put in the middle of a issue that is his parents to resolve and isn't healthy. 

Please note, I am going to get a counsellor for 10yoson to talk through these issues, as I mentioned it is causing him anxiety and stress and he needs to have an outlet that isnt either his mother or father to talk through these things. 

Regards,


Pingo. 




When your son does bring this up, same stratergy, when I am angry at your father, doesnt mean I dont love you.  I will always love you no matter if i am angry, sad or tyred.  These are my problems not yours.  If I am ever like this tell me so I can stop.  These are my issues to work through and I shouldnt put them onto you. 

Eventually, your son will understand that it is your problem, his fathers problem, not his.  He might even start to draw his own boundarys with these discussions happening with his dad.   


AJJ. 

AJJ, unfortunately it's all about the Dad's happiness, not my son's.  He is not outright abusive (in the court's eyes), he's just an extremely self-centered, immature father.  And when I get calls from the school bc my son is behind on his homework, when his Dad keeps him home from school for selfish reasons (needs a playmate) and my son gets behind, when he feeds him crap when my son has an intolerance to some different foods and he really suffers afterwards, I cannot just keep my mouth shut.  I have to talk to him about this stuff.  And that's where the problem lies.  He can't handle any kind of confrontation so he rages at me.  That is why I've decided to have no more contact.  Getting pretty sick of people raging on me.  There is just no mature tactic that works with him bc it's like dealing with a rebellious teen.  I don't badmouth his dad to my son but he is very sensitive, he knows there is tension.  I am trying to teach him that it's okay to have boundaries and it's not okay to let people abuse you but he loves his Dad and wants to defend him, which is natural.  I certainly do not want him to be in the middle of our nonsense.

I do have my son in counselling.  He is having a very hard time with his dad being mad at me lately and also the BU with his stepfather.  I'm hoping they can help him.

[Mutt]

Turkish,

You're a testament of strength holding it up like you do in front of D2 and S4. It's painful on the inside how she and bf wrecked a home. When she says you have better things to do remember that. She made her choice like your T said as impulsive as it was. Don't feel guilt and I'm sorry your kids have to suffer. It's not your fault.

It must be difficult having to be in contact with her and her waifish ways.

You're kids are lucky to have a dad like you Turk. The dividends will pay later. You're doing the right things and I'm sorry for the pain she caused you. She's not a friend. Perhaps years from now and you don't owe her that a year after the split. She made her impulsive choices, shoot first aim later and wanting rescues. It's not for you to clean-up D32's messes.

Hang in there brother.


--Mutt

[Blimblam]

Hi Turkish,

Yeah, it seems like d32 wants daddy to check things out for her again to make sure everything is safe.  MLM's seem to prey upon the likes of pwBPD.  Most people I have known that I am pretty sure are BPD or have BPD traits at one point were or almost were lured into MLM's. I talked a few out of it when I was in confidant role.

[Turkish]

Thanks everyone for the support.

Hi Turkish,

Yeah, it seems like d32 wants daddy to check things out for her again to make sure everything is safe.  MLM's seem to prey upon the likes of pwBPD.  Most people I have known that I am pretty sure are BPD or have BPD traits at one point were or almost were lured into MLM's. I talked a few out of it when I was in confidant role.

I was briefly sucked into an MLM... .when I was 23, and I only lost a few hundred bucks, but I got some product. She may be looking for my opinion.

I just talked to a friend, who knew her pretty well (a fellow Rescuer like me, he always liked her, and was confused when I talked about her social anxiety and the like, because he didn't see it). His take was that she doesn't think like us, and in her world, it's confusing to her why we shouldn't be friends. To her, "relationships don't work out," despite the initial idealization. I think he's right. She's split off the romantic attachment. While she's aware of the fact that I don't like her, she sees nothing wrong with her desire to be friends. "Living the gray, or in-between" is how he once put it.

S4 was still a little sick this morning, so I didn't take him to school. I texted her early. She never answered. Weird. She picked them up. It's unlike her to not at least acknowledge this, so either she's mad and she disagreed, she's dissociating, or it's just plain rude.

Like the thing on Sunday, maybe she just engages when she needs something...

[Mutt]

She copes one way. She also burned bridges. People can't force friendships. I guess it's a part of the FOG.