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Family Court Strategies: When Your Partner Has BPD OR NPD Traits. Practicing lawyer, Senior Family Mediator, and former Licensed Clinical Social Worker with twelve years’ experience and an expert on navigating the Family Court process.
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Author Topic: Hopes and dreams  (Read 753 times)
jhkbuzz
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« on: December 08, 2014, 05:49:34 PM »

Sometimes I wonder why I’m still crying.  It’s not like the last four years were very good – they were, at best, occasionally pleasant.  But yet I keep crying.

Intellectually I know that everything she did – the habitual lying, the repeated infidelities, the dysfunctional swings between neediness and vindictiveness – were a result of her chronic inability to regulate her emotions.  Whether this is BPD or something else entirely, the truth is that these were HER issues.  Not mine.  Not caused by me.  Not issues I could “fix.”  I KNOW this.  Intellectually, I know these patterns were present in her relationships long before I met her.  She hinted at this herself in many conversations; her best friend even confirmed it for me. Her therapist told me that the pattern of unfaithfulness I described was indicative of serious, deeply rooted issues.  But even knowing these things hasn't helped; I’m still having a hard time letting it all go. 

Yet, I realized today that I’m not crying because I want to reconcile – if she showed up on my doorstep tomorrow I couldn't talk myself into taking her back.  I’m not crying because I’m afraid to be alone – the truth is that I was never lonelier than when I was with her – and, in some ways, breaking up has been a relief.  I’m not crying because I am secretly afraid that I’m not “good enough” to be loved – I know that, while I’m not perfect, I have generous heart and a lot of love to offer.

I finally realized today that I’m crying because I’m mourning the death of all the hopes and dreams I had for us as a couple.  I’m crying because I've finally accepted that she’s not emotionally capable of the healthy, loving relationship I imagined we would have for the rest of our lives.  I’m crying because, even when all reasonable chances for a relationship have faded, hopes and dreams die a long, slow, painful death.

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Pou
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« Reply #1 on: December 08, 2014, 05:59:27 PM »

I met my wife for over 5 years before we got married.  There were plenty of signs that she was a NPD… but I ignore them and didn't know what PDs are.  No clue and didn't know what I was dealing with.  7 years ago… with my first child was born and two more afterwards… the path has been unbearable.  Anything you can think of … happened to me.  I hang in there, because i love my kids dearly.  I am like flying an air plane that is severely damaged… high in the air, but with three kids, I can not just jump out with a single parachute … got to try to land this plane with everyone safe on board.  So as to your situation… where are you right now?  do you have kids together?  I know that emotional investment is a lot ... but when you go into marriage and have kids together… trust me, it goes right into all another dimension.  I think you found a good place to read up and see everyones' experiences with PDs… I wish you well and I think the best thing you can do for yourself is go over others advices and stories… and see for yourself where you want to be 1 year from now.  Hopefully, this board will give you some perspective.  Good luck and know that you are not alone.
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Xidion
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« Reply #2 on: December 08, 2014, 06:06:50 PM »

I finally realized today that I’m crying because I’m mourning the death of all the hopes and dreams I had for us as a couple.  I’m crying because I've finally accepted that she’s not emotionally capable of the healthy, loving relationship I imagined we would have for the rest of our lives.  I’m crying because, even when all reasonable chances for a relationship have faded, hopes and dreams die a long, slow, painful death.

I am 5 weeks out of being replaced after a 20 month relationship. This right here made me start sobbing. I still am as I type this. Like you, I would never take her back, even if she was at my doorstep begging me. This phrase really hit home for me. It's exactly how I feel, but I just couldn't put my finger on it until you brought it to my attention. We were planning our future together. We got our first apartment and both signed our names on the lease. It wasn't suppose to be this way. I had so many "hopes and dreams" for our future together. I got a promotion at work that set us up financially for life. Everything I did was for "us" but everything she did was for "her". We are victims of a people with a terrible disorder. Thank you for sharing this.
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jhkbuzz
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« Reply #3 on: December 08, 2014, 06:12:23 PM »

Pou: We were actually together for 8 years; she began cheating after 4. Our stepdaughter was 15, and I couldn't bear the thought of ending the relationship (for my stepdaughter's sake). Her mother is indulgent, overly permissive, and emotionally unstable. I was scared to death of the kind of trouble a 15 year old girl could get into if left unsupervised.  So I stayed. She is now a sophomore in college.

I am so, so sorry for your situation.  I can hear the burden of the responsibility you feel towards your children... .it is almost an unbearable pain. You are in a no-win situation... .I know it well.  It's awful. I had no idea that I could be wounded so badly by someone who told me they loved me; I sometimes wonder if I will ever heal from it.  I know I will never be the same. But I can honestly tell you that I think the pain of ending the relationship when my stepdaughter was 15 would have been far, far worse. I would have constantly worried and wondered about her.  At least now, with the choices I made, I only have to worry about myself.
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jhkbuzz
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« Reply #4 on: December 08, 2014, 06:16:16 PM »

Xidion: I am so sorry... .I was replaced in a month; I know how awful it is.  I keep reminding myself that I shouldn't take it personally... .her therapist actually told me that once. But it's hard.

We broke up four months ago, and after the first two months I tried to start "naming" the reason for all of my tears.  I was confused because I knew I wouldn't take her back... .but I kept crying.  I was finally able to name it two days ago.  I typed it out and put it on my fridge.  When I looked at it tonight I decided to post it, because I thought it might help someone else.  Thank you so much for responding.  Stay strong, we will get through it.
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« Reply #5 on: December 08, 2014, 06:51:50 PM »

I also want to thank you for writing this.  Like both of you, I don't know that I would want to, or for that matter, COULD go back to her after all the damage done so it has been confusing for me.  It's been 8 months and I have good days and bad days but mostly I think it is as you said.  I mourn the dream.  Starting over is hard, especially with this rawness of emotion.  I have had friends say they din't understand why my grief is so long lasting.  I am grateful they never endured the emotional abuse of a borderline.  Sometimes, it is just beyond words but I do feel like I am on my way out of the morass and that is because of all of you, the amazing people who have been on the front lines and now we huddle together for validation that perhaps we really are good enough... .and we are... .that our dreams will still exist... .and they do.  In the meantime, we hold each other tight till this storm passes.  Thank you both for the validation.
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peiper
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« Reply #6 on: December 08, 2014, 06:54:09 PM »

The important thing is we need to realize that we are mourning a fantasy. It never actually existed except in our minds. These people have it down to an art on how to build up our hopes and dreams.
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jhkbuzz
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« Reply #7 on: December 08, 2014, 07:14:20 PM »

I have good days and bad days but mostly I think it is as you said.  I mourn the dream.  Starting over is hard, especially with this rawness of emotion.  I have had friends say they don't understand why my grief is so long lasting. 

I don't think that anyone can possibly understand the pain involved in a BPD relationship unless they experience it... .and that simple fact also adds to my feelings of loneliness sometimes. Even when I try to put it into words for my friends I can never quite explain the depth of the awfulness of it all.

I am grateful that I am having better days... .longer periods of forgetting the pain. But the rawness is still present, as you said. But, little by little, hour by hour, day by day, it is getting better.  I know it will continue to.

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jhkbuzz
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« Reply #8 on: December 08, 2014, 07:19:05 PM »

The important thing is we need to realize that we are mourning a fantasy. It never actually existed except in our minds. These people have it down to an art on how to build up our hopes and dreams.

I am still going through the stages of grief... .and the anger stage is a good one to be in sometimes - it provides relief from the pain.

But more and more I'm thinking that my ex is a lot like someone who has just hit their thumb with a hammer - in such an incredible amount of pain that it would be impossible for them to feel much empathy, or be concerned about anyone else for any reason, for that matter. Pain makes us all self absorbed. So I don't think it's an "art" so much as an intense self-focus on relieving their pain. And how awful that, while I can (and have) escaped it, there's no escape for them (without years and years of therapy).

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Xidion
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« Reply #9 on: December 08, 2014, 07:37:41 PM »

The important thing is we need to realize that we are mourning a fantasy. It never actually existed except in our minds. These people have it down to an art on how to build up our hopes and dreams.

I am still going through the stages of grief... .and the anger stage is a good one to be in sometimes - it provides relief from the pain.

But more and more I'm thinking that my ex is a lot like someone who has just hit their thumb with a hammer - in such an incredible amount of pain that it would be impossible for them to feel much empathy, or be concerned about anyone else for any reason, for that matter. Pain makes us all self absorbed. So I don't think it's an "art" so much as an intense self-focus on relieving their pain. And how awful that, while I can (and have) escaped it, there's no escape for them (without years and years of therapy).

As much as I hurt,  I know in time I will be better. To be honest,  I hurt for her more.  It isn't her fault she had a terrible childhood full of trauma (hers was very bad). I have been praying that she seek help and that God fills the void within her shattered heart.
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jhkbuzz
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« Reply #10 on: December 08, 2014, 07:49:19 PM »

Xidon: "I have been praying that she seek help and that God fills the void within her shattered heart."

This is a beautiful thought.  It is a difficult tightrope for us to walk, however: being empathetic without being enmeshed; hoping for their healing but prioritizing our own.
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« Reply #11 on: December 08, 2014, 08:48:37 PM »

I finally realized today that I’m crying because I’m mourning the death of all the hopes and dreams I had for us as a couple.  I’m crying because I've finally accepted that she’s not emotionally capable of the healthy, loving relationship I imagined we would have for the rest of our lives.  I’m crying because, even when all reasonable chances for a relationship have faded, hopes and dreams die a long, slow, painful death.

I am 5 weeks out of being replaced after a 20 month relationship. This right here made me start sobbing. I still am as I type this. Like you, I would never take her back, even if she was at my doorstep begging me. This phrase really hit home for me. It's exactly how I feel, but I just couldn't put my finger on it until you brought it to my attention. We were planning our future together. We got our first apartment and both signed our names on the lease. It wasn't suppose to be this way. I had so many "hopes and dreams" for our future together. I got a promotion at work that set us up financially for life. Everything I did was for "us" but everything she did was for "her". We are victims of a people with a terrible disorder. Thank you for sharing this.

I’m crying because I've finally accepted that she’s not emotionally capable of the healthy, loving relationship I imagined we would have for the rest of our lives.  I’m crying because, even when all reasonable chances for a relationship have faded, hopes and dreams die a long, slow, painful death.

Yes, hopes and dreams and loving someone with a cruel disorder do die a long, slow, painful death.  Your  tears are the very tears so many of us have cried.  I can honestly say in my long and well experienced life, I cried in ways I never, ever, knew existed as my r/s "ended"/ was abandoned by my expBPD.

Although we must take further steps in this healing journey to focus on us, please know that this is a painful and unique experience. Be gentle with yourself.

I read something recently that rang very true to my heart.  As our love for our partners progresses and deepens, their disorder progresses and deepens.

The disorder always wins.

It's very sad. 

Sending support, understanding, and 

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« Reply #12 on: December 08, 2014, 09:21:58 PM »

Excerpt
I read something recently that rang very true to my heart.  As our love for our partners progresses and deepens, their disorder progresses and deepens.

This is just so profound and so sad.  :'( :'( :'( :'(
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« Reply #13 on: December 08, 2014, 09:34:21 PM »

Excerpt
I read something recently that rang very true to my heart.  As our love for our partners progresses and deepens, their disorder progresses and deepens.

This is just so profound and so sad.  :'( :'( :'( :'(

This is absolutely true. I experienced this first hand, as many of us have. It's all about "engulfment". They so badly want love, but without it they run away, and too much of it they run away. It really is so perplexing.
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« Reply #14 on: December 08, 2014, 10:22:51 PM »

It took me a really long time to start seeing that I was only fooling myself that we would have the kind of life we talked about--so we grieve the loss of a relationship and that piece of our heart, all while grieving for those lost dreams. It's a tremendous loss, well worth mourning.
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« Reply #15 on: December 08, 2014, 11:04:57 PM »

Sometimes I wonder why I’m still crying.  It’s not like the last four years were very good – they were, at best, occasionally pleasant.  But yet I keep crying.

Intellectually I know that everything she did – the habitual lying, the repeated infidelities, the dysfunctional swings between neediness and vindictiveness – were a result of her chronic inability to regulate her emotions.  Whether this is BPD or something else entirely, the truth is that these were HER issues.  Not mine.  Not caused by me.  Not issues I could “fix.”  I KNOW this. 

Hey.  This is what keeps us coming back.  If you are naturally a nurturing, loving person, or even a fixer - you WANT to be in that "occasionally" pleasant phase.   You love the potential, but you need to realize that your idealized version of this person will never get to that "place" where things are harmonious.   

Let me ask you a question.  When did it start coming apart?  Was it 18 months in?  I ask this because a lot of us have the same story.  Things were perfect until... .

Realize that this is a real, painful disease.  The reason you are still engulfed in this madness is due to the crazy push and pull relationship dynamic present in all relationships with those who have BPD or a Cluster-B personality.  These great moments are a few, but they are so good, and you are addicted those highs that this person can give you.  When they are bad, they are soul-crushingly bad.  You, as a fixer, are chasing the good.

You may feel low now, but consider yourself so very lucky that you got out with your life very much in tact.  You now have the option to seek someone emotionally healthy who can give you the relationship you deserve.



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peiper
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« Reply #16 on: December 08, 2014, 11:27:00 PM »

The important thing is we need to realize that we are mourning a fantasy. It never actually existed except in our minds. These people have it down to an art on how to build up our hopes and dreams.

I am still going through the stages of grief... .and the anger stage is a good one to be in sometimes - it provides relief from the pain.

But more and more I'm thinking that my ex is a lot like someone who has just hit their thumb with a hammer - in such an incredible amount of pain that it would be impossible for them to feel much empathy, or be concerned about anyone else for any reason, for that matter. Pain makes us all self absorbed. So I don't think it's an "art" so much as an intense self-focus on relieving their pain. And how awful that, while I can (and have) escaped it, there's no escape for them (without years and years of therapy).

As much as I hurt,  I know in time I will be better. To be honest,  I hurt for her more.  It isn't her fault she had a terrible childhood full of trauma (hers was very bad). I have been praying that she seek help and that God fills the void within her shattered heart.

Lots of people had bad childhoods.  Charles Manson did. Its a matter of choice how they treat and what they do to people. This idea of they were so hurt as a child and should be given a free pass is outrageous to me. Everyone should be held accountable for their actions. The whole" oh they were hurt as a child" stuff just sets us up when they try to recycle.  Those that forget the past are doomed to repeat it.
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« Reply #17 on: December 08, 2014, 11:35:17 PM »

Lots of people had bad childhoods.  Charles Manson did. Its a matter of choice how they treat and what they do to people. This idea of they were so hurt as a child and should be given a free pass is outrageous to me. Everyone should be held accountable for their actions. The whole" oh they were hurt as a child" stuff just sets us up when they try to recycle.  Those that forget the past are doomed to repeat it.

Excerpt
If we open a quarrel between the past and the present, we shall find that we have lost the future -Winston Churchill

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Xidion
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« Reply #18 on: December 08, 2014, 11:37:20 PM »

The important thing is we need to realize that we are mourning a fantasy. It never actually existed except in our minds. These people have it down to an art on how to build up our hopes and dreams.

I am still going through the stages of grief... .and the anger stage is a good one to be in sometimes - it provides relief from the pain.

But more and more I'm thinking that my ex is a lot like someone who has just hit their thumb with a hammer - in such an incredible amount of pain that it would be impossible for them to feel much empathy, or be concerned about anyone else for any reason, for that matter. Pain makes us all self absorbed. So I don't think it's an "art" so much as an intense self-focus on relieving their pain. And how awful that, while I can (and have) escaped it, there's no escape for them (without years and years of therapy).

As much as I hurt,  I know in time I will be better. To be honest,  I hurt for her more.  It isn't her fault she had a terrible childhood full of trauma (hers was very bad). I have been praying that she seek help and that God fills the void within her shattered heart.

Lots of people had bad childhoods.  Charles Manson did. Its a matter of choice how they treat and what they do to people. This idea of they were so hurt as a child and should be given a free pass is outrageous to me. Everyone should be held accountable for their actions. The whole" oh they were hurt as a child" stuff just sets us up when they try to recycle.  Those that forget the past are doomed to repeat it.

My ex is already posting pictures of her and my replacement together after only 5 weeks from the b/u. She won't be back.
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peiper
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« Reply #19 on: December 08, 2014, 11:42:00 PM »

Lots of people had bad childhoods.  Charles Manson did. Its a matter of choice how they treat and what they do to people. This idea of they were so hurt as a child and should be given a free pass is outrageous to me. Everyone should be held accountable for their actions. The whole" oh they were hurt as a child" stuff just sets us up when they try to recycle.  Those that forget the past are doomed to repeat it.

Excerpt
If we open a quarrel between the past and the present, we shall find that we have lost the future -Winston Churchill


I agree with Whinny completely
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« Reply #20 on: December 08, 2014, 11:46:55 PM »

What jhkbuzz said is absolutely true! I just realized why I was upset when I was upset... .It is that! Each night before bed I would keep thinking why I am so down, and this was the exact reason... .This is huge disappointing time in our lives and hopes and dreams can always come back, but with a different person. Thank you for your post, it helped me understand why I have been upset for months... .
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« Reply #21 on: December 09, 2014, 12:04:52 AM »

The important thing is we need to realize that we are mourning a fantasy. It never actually existed except in our minds. These people have it down to an art on how to build up our hopes and dreams.

I am still going through the stages of grief... .and the anger stage is a good one to be in sometimes - it provides relief from the pain.

But more and more I'm thinking that my ex is a lot like someone who has just hit their thumb with a hammer - in such an incredible amount of pain that it would be impossible for them to feel much empathy, or be concerned about anyone else for any reason, for that matter. Pain makes us all self absorbed. So I don't think it's an "art" so much as an intense self-focus on relieving their pain. And how awful that, while I can (and have) escaped it, there's no escape for them (without years and years of therapy).

As much as I hurt,  I know in time I will be better. To be honest,  I hurt for her more.  It isn't her fault she had a terrible childhood full of trauma (hers was very bad). I have been praying that she seek help and that God fills the void within her shattered heart.

Lots of people had bad childhoods.  Charles Manson did. Its a matter of choice how they treat and what they do to people. This idea of they were so hurt as a child and should be given a free pass is outrageous to me. Everyone should be held accountable for their actions. The whole" oh they were hurt as a child" stuff just sets us up when they try to recycle.  Those that forget the past are doomed to repeat it.

My ex is already posting pictures of her and my replacement together after only 5 weeks from the b/u. She won't be back.

I'll bet you on that. I've said and thought that so many times and always proven wrong.
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« Reply #22 on: December 09, 2014, 12:37:09 AM »

"I finally realized today that I’m crying because I’m mourning the death of all the hopes and dreams I had for us as a couple.  I’m crying because I've finally accepted that she’s not emotionally capable of the healthy, loving relationship I imagined we would have for the rest of our lives.  I’m crying because, even when all reasonable chances for a relationship have faded, hopes and dreams die a long, slow, painful death."

You have me in tears from this post. So true and gut wrenching. A house, kids under one roof, a marriage a fantasy. Triggers are coming at me all over the house, his brothers jam, the tacos he bought in the pantry, my perfume, God this N/C is hard. I too miss the phone call at 8 am, "hey babe, you must be in the shower, call you at noon, love you." Done, gone, poof, replacement, lure, hook,

Going to the doctor tomorrow to get meds and T referral. Denial still. Dreams of a future gone... .this mental illness leaves those of us behind in turmoil still shaking our heads and wondering how this can all be true.
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« Reply #23 on: December 09, 2014, 12:47:39 AM »

It's OK to cry and grieve 

Excerpt
Yield and overcome;

Bend and be straight;

Empty and be full;

Wear out and be new;

Have little and gain;

Have much and be confused.

-Tao

--Mutt
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« Reply #24 on: December 09, 2014, 07:11:49 AM »

I finally realized today that I’m crying because I’m mourning the death of all the hopes and dreams I had for us as a couple.  I’m crying because I've finally accepted that she’s not emotionally capable of the healthy, loving relationship I imagined we would have for the rest of our lives.  I’m crying because, even when all reasonable chances for a relationship have faded, hopes and dreams die a long, slow, painful death.

I am 5 weeks out of being replaced after a 20 month relationship. This right here made me start sobbing. I still am as I type this. Like you, I would never take her back, even if she was at my doorstep begging me. This phrase really hit home for me. It's exactly how I feel, but I just couldn't put my finger on it until you brought it to my attention. We were planning our future together. We got our first apartment and both signed our names on the lease. It wasn't suppose to be this way. I had so many "hopes and dreams" for our future together. I got a promotion at work that set us up financially for life. Everything I did was for "us" but everything she did was for "her". We are victims of a people with a terrible disorder. Thank you for sharing this.

[/quote

Agreed ! It's very accurate before me and my ex split we had planned everything wedding , holidays when we were going to plan for a baby and when I said all the things after we split she didn't say anything about it other than

Well it's all your fault you were a C**T you ruined everything . A sane person would of thought well maybe we can work on this and spend time thinking about and needs some space to do so but not boarderlines they just blame everyone else for ther mistakes and carry on playing the victim to ther next target and so it goes on !
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« Reply #25 on: December 09, 2014, 09:29:59 AM »

Normal people work things out. They compromise, negotiate, bend a little. Borderlines demand it is their way (which most the time doesn't make sense) and can change in a heartbeat. Normal people would say "let's work through this issue, problem etc." They are incapable of normalcy and it is just plain sad we got sucked into loving someone that could not truly be a mature adult with a healthy mind to work on problems.
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« Reply #26 on: December 09, 2014, 10:03:58 AM »

Normal people work things out. They compromise, negotiate, bend a little. Borderlines demand it is their way (which most the time doesn't make sense) and can change in a heartbeat. Normal people would say "let's work through this issue, problem etc." They are incapable of normalcy and it is just plain sad we got sucked into loving someone that could not truly be a mature adult with a healthy mind to work on problems.

God knows I wasnt perfect in the r/s, but I tried and I loved her with all I had. She never saw my pain or joy, it was always about her and her issues. I just wasnt good enough for her.
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« Reply #27 on: December 09, 2014, 10:51:32 AM »

This is absolutely true. I experienced this first hand, as many of us have. It's all about "engulfment". They so badly want love, but without it they run away, and too much of it they run away. It really is so perplexing.

that's just it: their behavior isn't really perplexing at all.  They do what they do, and they ALL do basically the same thing.  Bpds, once you figure out they're BPD and begin to take a cold, hard inventory of their behavior, are quite consistent in their dysfunctional behavior and inconsistency. 

Once you have been removed for a long time, and have invested lots of growth and work in yourself, you'll realize how easily predictable they are... .

What is perplexing is why we stayed.  The original poster mentioned in a comment that in year 4 of an 8 yr relationship, things began to really 'hit the fan'... .yet, the relationship continued for years.

I stayed in my relationship for years as well, after the bull$h^t was clearly in my face.  Why, did I, someone who I felt had the world in the palm of his hand and was a good candidate to be anyone's bf, stay with such a mess of a human being?

I encourage you to mourn the relationship and all the hopes and dreams, but don't spend too much time in this place.  It keeps you

stuck in a fantasy that will impede your progress in fully detaching. 

Maya Angelou has a great quote:

When a person shows you who they are, believe them

We were shown hundreds and thousands of times who our exes were, but we chose to not believe.  <<why we didn't is the massive puzzle piece in solving the mystery of the relationship

Spend time on you! 

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« Reply #28 on: December 09, 2014, 02:10:09 PM »

Pou: We were actually together for 8 years; she began cheating after 4. Our stepdaughter was 15, and I couldn't bear the thought of ending the relationship (for my stepdaughter's sake). Her mother is indulgent and overly permissive; and obviously unstable. I was scared to death of the kind of trouble a 15 year old girl could get into if left unsupervised.  So I stayed. She is now a sophomore in college.

I am so, so sorry for your situation.  I can hear the burden of the responsibility you feel towards your children... .it is almost an unbearable pain. You are in a no-win situation... .I know it well.  It's awful. I had no idea that I could be wounded so badly by someone who told me they loved me; I sometimes wonder if I will ever heal from it.  I know I will never be the same. But I can honestly tell you that I think the pain of ending the relationship when my stepdaughter was 15 would have been far, far worse. I would have constantly worried and wondered about her.  At least now, with the choices I made, I only have to worry about myself.

jhkbuzz, thanks.  I think hearing your example of going through similar choice that I am making and coming out on the other end reaffirming your choice makes me feel better.  I have three and will have at least 16 years to go … and yes, I am human and yes, I was and am the same sap that got into a relationship with a PD… and yes, I must have have some affinity toward people like that.  I still fantasize that my NPDw would and could change … but every time I look at her now these days … I see a stranger.  someone who I have built a relationship for so long and yet I have no idea who she is.  I am to the point where I pick up clues of her infidelity… but don't have the desire to pursuit it… no need to say, we no longer have intimacy… it is a dreadful life and it is like living in a prison… my kids keep me smiling everyday.  strange but true, never thought I would become the person that I am today.  my situation is not normal and can not last… but until evolution happens… this is what I have.   Jhkbuzz... sounds like you are still attached to your ex… I am not in your shoes and will know it when I cross the bridge.  I just know right now that I think i would be a happier person if we are separated.  My NPDw is very controlling and she then she turn the table around and project her actions and gaslights… very very strange. 
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« Reply #29 on: December 09, 2014, 02:24:11 PM »

This is such an amazing thread. It perfectly sums up the way I feel at the moment. And also answers the question of why NC is so hard: by maintaining contact we still cling on to that hope on some level.

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« Reply #30 on: December 09, 2014, 05:02:33 PM »

Sometimes I wonder why I’m still crying.  It’s not like the last four years were very good – they were, at best, occasionally pleasant.  But yet I keep crying.

Intellectually I know that everything she did – the habitual lying, the repeated infidelities, the dysfunctional swings between neediness and vindictiveness – were a result of her chronic inability to regulate her emotions.  Whether this is BPD or something else entirely, the truth is that these were HER issues.  Not mine.  Not caused by me.  Not issues I could “fix.”  I KNOW this. 

Hey.  This is what keeps us coming back.  If you are naturally a nurturing, loving person, or even a fixer - you WANT to be in that "occasionally" pleasant phase.   You love the potential, but you need to realize that your idealized version of this person will never get to that "place" where things are harmonious.   

Let me ask you a question.  When did it start coming apart?  Was it 18 months in?  I ask this because a lot of us have the same story.  Things were perfect until... .

Realize that this is a real, painful disease.  The reason you are still engulfed in this madness is due to the crazy push and pull relationship dynamic present in all relationships with those who have BPD or a Cluster-B personality.  These great moments are a few, but they are so good, and you are addicted those highs that this person can give you.  When they are bad, they are soul-crushingly bad.  You, as a fixer, are chasing the good.

You may feel low now, but consider yourself so very lucky that you got out with your life very much in tact.  You now have the option to seek someone emotionally healthy who can give you the relationship you deserve.

Thank you for the encouragement... .
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« Reply #31 on: December 09, 2014, 05:04:57 PM »

The important thing is we need to realize that we are mourning a fantasy. It never actually existed except in our minds. These people have it down to an art on how to build up our hopes and dreams.

I am still going through the stages of grief... .and the anger stage is a good one to be in sometimes - it provides relief from the pain.

But more and more I'm thinking that my ex is a lot like someone who has just hit their thumb with a hammer - in such an incredible amount of pain that it would be impossible for them to feel much empathy, or be concerned about anyone else for any reason, for that matter. Pain makes us all self absorbed. So I don't think it's an "art" so much as an intense self-focus on relieving their pain. And how awful that, while I can (and have) escaped it, there's no escape for them (without years and years of therapy).

As much as I hurt,  I know in time I will be better. To be honest,  I hurt for her more.  It isn't her fault she had a terrible childhood full of trauma (hers was very bad). I have been praying that she seek help and that God fills the void within her shattered heart.

Lots of people had bad childhoods.  Charles Manson did. Its a matter of choice how they treat and what they do to people. This idea of they were so hurt as a child and should be given a free pass is outrageous to me. Everyone should be held accountable for their actions. The whole" oh they were hurt as a child" stuff just sets us up when they try to recycle.  Those that forget the past are doomed to repeat it.

It wasn't offered up as an excuse... .there isn't any excuse. But in my lucid, calmer moments I begin to grasp that I have a choice: to either demonize or understand.  I am working towards understanding at the same time that I am working  on putting personal boundaries in place that will prevent someone who is so emotionally destructive from ever re-entering my life. I am sad for her, but I am even sadder for me.
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« Reply #32 on: December 09, 2014, 05:09:32 PM »

"I finally realized today that I’m crying because I’m mourning the death of all the hopes and dreams I had for us as a couple.  I’m crying because I've finally accepted that she’s not emotionally capable of the healthy, loving relationship I imagined we would have for the rest of our lives.  I’m crying because, even when all reasonable chances for a relationship have faded, hopes and dreams die a long, slow, painful death."

You have me in tears from this post. So true and gut wrenching. A house, kids under one roof, a marriage a fantasy. Triggers are coming at me all over the house, his brothers jam, the tacos he bought in the pantry, my perfume, God this N/C is hard. I too miss the phone call at 8 am, "hey babe, you must be in the shower, call you at noon, love you." Done, gone, poof, replacement, lure, hook,

Going to the doctor tomorrow to get meds and T referral. Denial still. Dreams of a future gone... .this mental illness leaves those of us behind in turmoil still shaking our heads and wondering how this can all be true.

I know, I know... .it's so incredibly awful.  Already seeing a T; not taking meds though.  The sadness is normal, I think.
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« Reply #33 on: December 09, 2014, 05:25:25 PM »

The important thing is we need to realize that we are mourning a fantasy. It never actually existed except in our minds. These people have it down to an art on how to build up our hopes and dreams.

I am still going through the stages of grief... .and the anger stage is a good one to be in sometimes - it provides relief from the pain.

But more and more I'm thinking that my ex is a lot like someone who has just hit their thumb with a hammer - in such an incredible amount of pain that it would be impossible for them to feel much empathy, or be concerned about anyone else for any reason, for that matter. Pain makes us all self absorbed. So I don't think it's an "art" so much as an intense self-focus on relieving their pain. And how awful that, while I can (and have) escaped it, there's no escape for them (without years and years of therapy).

As much as I hurt,  I know in time I will be better. To be honest,  I hurt for her more.  It isn't her fault she had a terrible childhood full of trauma (hers was very bad). I have been praying that she seek help and that God fills the void within her shattered heart.

Lots of people had bad childhoods.  Charles Manson did. Its a matter of choice how they treat and what they do to people. This idea of they were so hurt as a child and should be given a free pass is outrageous to me. Everyone should be held accountable for their actions. The whole" oh they were hurt as a child" stuff just sets us up when they try to recycle.  Those that forget the past are doomed to repeat it.

It wasn't offered up as an excuse... .there isn't any excuse. But in my lucid, calmer moments I begin to grasp that I have a choice: to either demonize or understand.  I am working towards understanding at the same time that I am working  on putting personal boundaries in place that will prevent someone who is so emotionally destructive from ever re-entering my life. I am sad for her, but I am even sadder for me.

Copy that on understanding. I understand everyone's responsible for their actions. Look at jails and how many are mentally ill? 60% have mental illness in prisons. I'd like to add. I chose to learn as to not alienate or stigmatize and to understand. When we don't understand something it perpetuates fear.

Good goal with personal boundaries. It's to keep the good stuff in and bad stuff out like some of the more difficult people in our lives or behaviors. I'm sad for my ex as well. She communicates in a way that most in general populous don't understand and has a difficult and misunderstood disorder that's been stygmatized.

I have kids with her and I would hope none have this disorder. If they do later in life. Dad understands.
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« Reply #34 on: December 09, 2014, 05:28:35 PM »

Normal people work things out. They compromise, negotiate, bend a little. Borderlines demand it is their way (which most the time doesn't make sense) and can change in a heartbeat. Normal people would say "let's work through this issue, problem etc." They are incapable of normalcy and it is just plain sad we got sucked into loving someone that could not truly be a mature adult with a healthy mind to work on problems.

I read this somewhere on this website:

"I don't want or mean to sound harsh but as a person who recovered from BPD I have to say, borderlines (as was I then) are emotionally immature. And that won't change without intensive therapy. So again, my message to nons is please do not fool yourself into thinking that you can love them ENOUGH to produce some kind of increase in emotional maturity. From my experience on both sides of BPD it definitely does not work that way.

To sum it up simply, because of all that happens to those who develop BPD they are not able to mature emotionally. They are caught back at very young ages of abandonment trauma and until it is resolved once and for all in therapy they will not have even the insight into the reality of how much they emotionally lack.

The lack is real. The lack is formidable. The lack requires professional help to be addressed appropriately.

Borderline immaturity is ingrained in what it means to have Borderline Personality Disorder. You, as a non borderline, cannot will or wish it away. You cannot change it. You also likely cannot live with all the pain that it continues to cause you either - it is the classic no-win rock and a hard place."
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« Reply #35 on: December 09, 2014, 05:32:46 PM »

This is absolutely true. I experienced this first hand, as many of us have. It's all about "engulfment". They so badly want love, but without it they run away, and too much of it they run away. It really is so perplexing.

that's just it: their behavior isn't really perplexing at all.  They do what they do, and they ALL do basically the same thing.  Bpds, once you figure out they're BPD and begin to take a cold, hard inventory of their behavior, are quite consistent in their dysfunctional behavior and inconsistency. 

Once you have been removed for a long time, and have invested lots of growth and work in yourself, you'll realize how easily predictable they are... .

What is perplexing is why we stayed.  The original poster mentioned in a comment that in year 4 of an 8 yr relationship, things began to really 'hit the fan'... .yet, the relationship continued for years.

I posted again a little while later... .I stayed because I loved her and she seemed to be going completely off the deep end - for reasons (at that time) were incomprehensible to me.  But I also stayed - primarily stayed - for the benefit of a child whom I would have no legal recourse to see if we had broken up.

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« Reply #36 on: December 09, 2014, 05:35:55 PM »

Pou: We were actually together for 8 years; she began cheating after 4. Our stepdaughter was 15, and I couldn't bear the thought of ending the relationship (for my stepdaughter's sake). Her mother is indulgent and overly permissive; and obviously unstable. I was scared to death of the kind of trouble a 15 year old girl could get into if left unsupervised.  So I stayed. She is now a sophomore in college.

I am so, so sorry for your situation.  I can hear the burden of the responsibility you feel towards your children... .it is almost an unbearable pain. You are in a no-win situation... .I know it well.  It's awful. I had no idea that I could be wounded so badly by someone who told me they loved me; I sometimes wonder if I will ever heal from it.  I know I will never be the same. But I can honestly tell you that I think the pain of ending the relationship when my stepdaughter was 15 would have been far, far worse. I would have constantly worried and wondered about her.  At least now, with the choices I made, I only have to worry about myself.

jhkbuzz, thanks.  I think hearing your example of going through similar choice that I am making and coming out on the other end reaffirming your choice makes me feel better.  I have three and will have at least 16 years to go … and yes, I am human and yes, I was and am the same sap that got into a relationship with a PD… and yes, I must have have some affinity toward people like that.  I still fantasize that my NPDw would and could change … but every time I look at her now these days … I see a stranger.  someone who I have built a relationship for so long and yet I have no idea who she is.  I am to the point where I pick up clues of her infidelity… but don't have the desire to pursuit it… no need to say, we no longer have intimacy… it is a dreadful life and it is like living in a prison… my kids keep me smiling everyday.  strange but true, never thought I would become the person that I am today.  my situation is not normal and can not last… but until evolution happens… this is what I have.   Jhkbuzz... sounds like you are still attached to your ex… I am not in your shoes and will know it when I cross the bridge.  I just know right now that I think i would be a happier person if we are separated.  My NPDw is very controlling and she then she turn the table around and project her actions and gaslights… very very strange. 

Four months out and I am still trying to detach, that is true.  It is a process. But I would have had no legal recourse to my (step) daughter if we had broken up.  It sounds like you have other options - I would take them if I were you.  I can't imagine you will be able to hold up under 16 more years of it.
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« Reply #37 on: December 11, 2014, 11:31:59 PM »

Excerpt
Four months out and I am still trying to detach, that is true.  It is a process. But I would have had no legal recourse to my (step) daughter if we had broken up.  It sounds like you have other options - I would take them if I were you.  I can't imagine you will be able to hold up under 16 more years of it.

My concern is that the more I come to know my NPDw, I notice that there is a sociopathic component to her character.  I recently read this book "The Sociopath Next Door" and it dawn on me that she possesses many qualities that the author identified as Sociopath.  However, there are definitely high similarity between a narcissist and a sociopath… I guess one can also say most PDs are sociopathic because they use any means to manipulate to get their way.  I am dreading if we go to court, what kind of mud slinging will she make up and blur the truth to the point that is unrecognizable?  And then I would have to use all the resources and time to battle her… meanwhile we have three young kids that need our attention.  My NPDw has been actively spreading lies about me to my own sister, to her family, to our common friends and secretly feed lies to my daughter of which I caught several times, but she never ever admit that she lied.  I notice that my NPDw views my relationship with my kids threatens her well being and anything I do for my kids, she sees as a competitive action ... instead of feeling happy and loved that dad cares and love the family, she sees it as if I am competing away my kids love for her.  It is really twisted and extremely controlling.  It is frightening to see this now clearly and wonder what the heck was I thinking when I actually fell in love with her.  I don't know what to do… honestly, she is extremely detrimental to my well being, but I have no choice but to stick around… blowing everything up would hurt my kids… My daughter told me that her happiest time is to have all of us doing something together.  When I heard that … my heart just sank… knowing that my NPDw is actively campaigning for divisiveness and alienation.  My NPDw is so damaged that I am pretty sure that her fault is deeply in her characters… and thus making it impossible to change.  I have no answers to my situation, I play it day by day and to focus on my kids.  I don't think I can last 16 years of this type of abusiveness… but I only take it one day at the time.  I don't know if I ever going to experience difficulty in detachment …. but as right now, I feel it is a safe bet that once I can see a way out with least turbulence, I would take it in a heart beat … I think I will feel like that I escaped death when it happens… so not sure if I would feeling the way you do about your ex.  Your ex is BPD so there are probably moments that are pretty good.  My NPDw doesn't really provide any up times… so I guess that is probably why I don't think I would have problem detaching.
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« Reply #38 on: December 12, 2014, 01:13:12 AM »

Pou,

our kids will always want things to be this magical, make-believe perfect family situation. Even my grown children struggle with that, not wanting things to be different for them. And I do see the damage I've allowed to happen to my children by keeping them in what was a toxic environment in many ways... .
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« Reply #39 on: December 12, 2014, 01:33:38 PM »

Normal people work things out. They compromise, negotiate, bend a little. Borderlines demand it is their way (which most the time doesn't make sense) and can change in a heartbeat. Normal people would say "let's work through this issue, problem etc." They are incapable of normalcy and it is just plain sad we got sucked into loving someone that could not truly be a mature adult with a healthy mind to work on problems.

Wow that is bang on.
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« Reply #40 on: December 12, 2014, 04:48:16 PM »

I finally realized today that I’m crying because I’m mourning the death of all the hopes and dreams I had for us as a couple.  I’m crying because I've finally accepted that she’s not emotionally capable of the healthy, loving relationship I imagined we would have for the rest of our lives.  I’m crying because, even when all reasonable chances for a relationship have faded, hopes and dreams die a long, slow, painful death.

I am 5 weeks out of being replaced after a 20 month relationship. This right here made me start sobbing. I still am as I type this. Like you, I would never take her back, even if she was at my doorstep begging me. This phrase really hit home for me. It's exactly how I feel, but I just couldn't put my finger on it until you brought it to my attention. We were planning our future together. We got our first apartment and both signed our names on the lease. It wasn't suppose to be this way. I had so many "hopes and dreams" for our future together. I got a promotion at work that set us up financially for life. Everything I did was for "us" but everything she did was for "her". We are victims of a people with a terrible disorder. Thank you for sharing this.

Both of these are so poignant. This is why we cry, the death of the hopes and dreams, the wasted effort, it is incredibly painful. And like Xidion, everything I did was for us, everything she did was for her... .It's painful, but I'm also now lacking trust in myself, I'm embarrassed for myself, I wonder what my friends and family must think of me for staying with someone so clearly unwell and trying so hard, I truly bent over backwards, spent every Xmas with her family, did anything she wanted to keep the peace and nothing was reciprocated and what's so strange, before this, I was never that way with other women. I am working out my issues day by day as we all are. We did get sucked in to loving incapable people and I think also many times 'duped' in with mirroring. There is so much self-flagellation going on but it's a bit like blaming the old dear who gets it from the conman! Yes, she shouldn't have let him in but still, have a heart!
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« Reply #41 on: December 12, 2014, 05:51:49 PM »

Pou,

our kids will always want things to be this magical, make-believe perfect family situation. Even my grown children struggle with that, not wanting things to be different for them. And I do see the damage I've allowed to happen to my children by keeping them in what was a toxic environment in many ways... .

Elpis, i am learning how to accept that.  As I begin to see the impossibility of preserving my relationship with my NPDw… I started to think how to best handle it for my kids.  There is this person who I was in love with for years … because I had a blinder on.  In retrospect, her responses were not severe in the beginning but consistent with her current out bursts … i had a blinder on, I couldn't see and now I see … yet no solution for all the craziness that she created for us on daily basis.   Elpis, what brings you here? 
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« Reply #42 on: December 12, 2014, 05:55:48 PM »

Normal people work things out. They compromise, negotiate, bend a little. Borderlines demand it is their way (which most the time doesn't make sense) and can change in a heartbeat. Normal people would say "let's work through this issue, problem etc." They are incapable of normalcy and it is just plain sad we got sucked into loving someone that could not truly be a mature adult with a healthy mind to work on problems.

I read this somewhere on this website:

"I don't want or mean to sound harsh but as a person who recovered from BPD I have to say, borderlines (as was I then) are emotionally immature. And that won't change without intensive therapy. So again, my message to nons is please do not fool yourself into thinking that you can love them ENOUGH to produce some kind of increase in emotional maturity. From my experience on both sides of BPD it definitely does not work that way.

To sum it up simply, because of all that happens to those who develop BPD they are not able to mature emotionally. They are caught back at very young ages of abandonment trauma and until it is resolved once and for all in therapy they will not have even the insight into the reality of how much they emotionally lack.

The lack is real. The lack is formidable. The lack requires professional help to be addressed appropriately.

Borderline immaturity is ingrained in what it means to have Borderline Personality Disorder. You, as a non borderline, cannot will or wish it away. You cannot change it. You also likely cannot live with all the pain that it continues to cause you either - it is the classic no-win rock and a hard place."

I don't think it is curable.  I think they brains are already wired the certain way and there is no going around it.  I think normal people have conscience and they care about people who  they partner up with.  Normal people have empathy and feel what others feel and respond healthily.  PDs don't and they react with strange defenses consistent with their character flaw. 
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« Reply #43 on: December 12, 2014, 09:07:11 PM »

Pou,

i'm working my way through the detaching process. I came to bpdfamily as a stayer, I really wanted to. But nothing I tried seemed to work. Then I moved to Undecided when I left the house in Feb this year because the situation became untenable and more than I could handle emotionally/mentally. And now after enough months away and watching how my uBPDh still treats me like i'm stupid even after he's been in counseling weekly for ten months, I have to realize there's nothing more for me to do.

I had blinders on for soo many years! But the situation with him has been going downhill for probably ten years, with a definite drop off a cliff in the past 4. Laugh out loud (click to insert in post) Our youngest is 26 though still at home, I was trying to get him launched while I was still there... .

So i'm working my way through the lessons, and reading each one several times through, and trying to work through my fears of what he'll do when I file for divorce or even legal separation. i'm embarrassed that he still scares me, though I do now see he has no super-powers! (it felt like it for a while.)
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« Reply #44 on: December 13, 2014, 07:03:37 AM »

Normal people work things out. They compromise, negotiate, bend a little. Borderlines demand it is their way (which most the time doesn't make sense) and can change in a heartbeat. Normal people would say "let's work through this issue, problem etc." They are incapable of normalcy and it is just plain sad we got sucked into loving someone that could not truly be a mature adult with a healthy mind to work on problems.

I read this somewhere on this website:

"I don't want or mean to sound harsh but as a person who recovered from BPD I have to say, borderlines (as was I then) are emotionally immature. And that won't change without intensive therapy. So again, my message to nons is please do not fool yourself into thinking that you can love them ENOUGH to produce some kind of increase in emotional maturity. From my experience on both sides of BPD it definitely does not work that way.

To sum it up simply, because of all that happens to those who develop BPD they are not able to mature emotionally. They are caught back at very young ages of abandonment trauma and until it is resolved once and for all in therapy they will not have even the insight into the reality of how much they emotionally lack.

The lack is real. The lack is formidable. The lack requires professional help to be addressed appropriately.

Borderline immaturity is ingrained in what it means to have Borderline Personality Disorder. You, as a non borderline, cannot will or wish it away. You cannot change it. You also likely cannot live with all the pain that it continues to cause you either - it is the classic no-win rock and a hard place."

I don't think it is curable.  I think they brains are already wired the certain way and there is no going around it.  I think normal people have conscience and they care about people who  they partner up with.  Normal people have empathy and feel what others feel and respond healthily.  PDs don't and they react with strange defenses consistent with their character flaw. 

The author of the quote I provided is actually a published therapist... .who used to have BPD.  I think it's possible to recover, but I don't think it's easy, and I don't think very many people do.

I read some things recently... .I'll try to paraphrase.  pwBPD aren't cured by going back to an "original, healthy condition" - that's a fantasy that non's have.  It's like they have to add a missing layer to help them manage their wildly fluctuating emotions.  Very much like children, actually (which makes sense if it is a disorder of arrested emotional development). Think of a 5 year old and the way they deal with their emotions - their anger and disappointments, for example.  Most don't get "stuck" in that way of responding to the world... .their maturity gets "layered" on top of that little 5 year old self and they grow up and learn better ways of responding.  Not so with pwBPD - they are emotionally "stuck" at that very young age.
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« Reply #45 on: December 13, 2014, 08:36:02 AM »

My hopes and dreams went out the window. Im surviving now.
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« Reply #46 on: December 13, 2014, 10:39:38 AM »

JHKBUZZ  thanks for clarifying. Yes, I meant that they lack the maturity because of their illness to rationalize and work things out.

I know for me I am in a business that I have to do a lot of compromising and back and forth negotiating and it does not work with my ex BPD. I was not aware he had this illness at the time and it was my mistake for trying to do this. Lesson learned.
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« Reply #47 on: December 14, 2014, 07:19:39 AM »

JHKBUZZ  thanks for clarifying. Yes, I meant that they lack the maturity because of their illness to rationalize and work things out.

I know for me I am in a business that I have to do a lot of compromising and back and forth negotiating and it does not work with my ex BPD. I was not aware he had this illness at the time and it was my mistake for trying to do this. Lesson learned.

You didn't make a mistake - you did what reasonably emotionally healthy people do.  I did it too.  Sometimes I wish I had understood what what happening as it was happening - but I don't beat myself up over it. The truth is that "knowing" probably would not have changed the outcome anyway. The person with BPD has to acknowledge the disorder and want to change; we cannot "love" them into wholeness. 
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« Reply #48 on: December 14, 2014, 07:34:38 AM »

JHKBUZZ  thanks for clarifying. Yes, I meant that they lack the maturity because of their illness to rationalize and work things out.

I know for me I am in a business that I have to do a lot of compromising and back and forth negotiating and it does not work with my ex BPD. I was not aware he had this illness at the time and it was my mistake for trying to do this. Lesson learned.

You didn't make a mistake - you did what reasonably emotionally healthy people do.  I did it too.  Sometimes I wish I had understood what what happening as it was happening - but I don't beat myself up over it. The truth is that "knowing" probably would not have changed the outcome anyway. The person with BPD has to acknowledge the disorder and want to change; we cannot "love" them into wholeness. 

So true. I'd been told she was BPD by my T. I thought I could love the problems away, it only made them worse. These people don't change.
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« Reply #49 on: December 15, 2014, 01:20:57 PM »

It really does boil down to that point of "they have to acknowledge the problem and work to change." For whatever reason the pwBPD who are now recovered realized life wasn't working the way they were doing it and chose to work to heal.

I never told my uBPDh that I thought he had BPD but he read it in my private journal. Now he's bringing it up constantly. To him i'm just telling him and the world that he has A Flaw, when for me it's information to help a person find the help they need. Perspective, something he doesn't seem to have about himself.
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« Reply #50 on: December 18, 2014, 05:12:07 PM »

I finally realized today that I’m crying because I’m mourning the death of all the hopes and dreams I had for us as a couple.  I’m crying because I've finally accepted that she’s not emotionally capable of the healthy, loving relationship I imagined we would have for the rest of our lives.  I’m crying because, even when all reasonable chances for a relationship have faded, hopes and dreams die a long, slow, painful death.

This could not be more true for me. We were making plans together. And over the next week, Christmas week, I have to pack up my belongings and go. I realize now that even though the relationship ended over two months ago, I've still be hanging on to the dream we were creating together in this space. Maybe this will be my closure. Maybe once my things are packed, out, and I, for the last time, lock the front door of this place we started building together... .maybe then it will finally hit me that yes in fact it is really, finally, over.  :'(

This r/s was so much more to me than it ever was to her. But she pretended to play along. She was just filling a void until something more tempting came along and that nearly kills me to accept. But she was my sweetheart. She was the woman I had always dreamed of meeting and then finally did. I'm so tired of wishing. I spent the majority of my adult life wishing I would meet a woman that I was able to love just as she was, and she would love me for me. Well I did. And look what it has done to me. My life has been completely turned inside out. Everything that I had before I met her is gone. Now everything that we created together is about to disappear as well. When I leave I will have no clear direction for my future, no defined place to land and will not be in much of a position emotionally to put those critical pieces together. I depended on her in so many ways. And now all I have is me. And I'm so afraid that I won't make it okay.

I wanted to be the one for her so she could be the one for me. But I wasn't ever good enough in her eyes. And in my eyes she was always better than she actually was. In the end the truth always comes out. Even if it's only part of the truth. It's always just enough to let the light into your darkness and helps you to eventually find your way. Dear God how I wanted this to be true. I wanted this more than anything ever. But I guess what I wanted and what I got were two different things.

When I met my uBPDexgf and fell in love with her, I mentioned to someone close to me that "she would either be the greatest love of my life, or my worst heartache ever." There were only two choices it could have been. Unfortunately, I, like the majority of us on this board, got the latter. Lucky me.

Too painful... .sometimes this is all just too Goddamn painful.
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« Reply #51 on: December 18, 2014, 05:15:35 PM »

Yes my friend, you and me the same... .In the words of Tupac, "If you can make it through the night, there is a brighter day." Stay strong.
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« Reply #52 on: December 18, 2014, 06:07:34 PM »

Sandman,

I could have written this about my exBPDbf. Once again I am in tears here. I do not know where I am going either. My future was with him. We were engaged, we bought a timeshare together. I am now going alone. We bought an RV to travel the U.S. He has it, we were moving to Arizona in two years.

I have no idea what I am going to do now.

I am trying to work on me, reading, learning, working out but I am in pain too. I have lost weight, wake up and go to bed thinking of him... .even though he is the biggest a$$ ever. His crap still sits at my office. He never picked it up from our email two months ago.

Thank you for sharing you post.
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« Reply #53 on: December 18, 2014, 06:24:50 PM »

I know now it could never be. I wasnt good enough or strong enough to tolerate her. I was another object while she got back on her feet and rediscovered herself after her husband bailed. Ive come to this realization. It is what it is.
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« Reply #54 on: December 18, 2014, 06:46:16 PM »

jhkbuzz - WOW, it's like you read my mind and heart… I was just talking to my counselor about this tonight. I can relate w/everything you said about being confident in yourself, know you're better off without them, etc, etc. Yet we still have a lot to mourn. I had so many hopes and dreams for our future together (marriage, children). I thought he was such a great person who wanted to change, wanted to be better.  I thought he would fight this other side of himself. I believed all of those things because he not only said so over and over again in a very sincere way, but once in awhile his actions would show evidence of it. I guess looking back I was really blinded by love? I loved him with a love so genuine, so sincere, and with everything I had to give.

I told my counselor that I sort of feel like someone died… the relationship died, but so did that wonderful person that he showed me. I even said that I think it might be easier if it were a death…while it would be extremely sad and I would never wish for that to be the case, I would be a lot less confused and trying to make heads or tails of things and have questions about who I was in love with. Now all that's left is an angry person who hates me.  My counselor agreed that it is like a death and reminded me that I'm still grieving.

In one word, the whole thing just really sucks.
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« Reply #55 on: December 18, 2014, 07:00:54 PM »

I finally realized today that I’m crying because I’m mourning the death of all the hopes and dreams I had for us as a couple.  I’m crying because I've finally accepted that she’s not emotionally capable of the healthy, loving relationship I imagined we would have for the rest of our lives.  I’m crying because, even when all reasonable chances for a relationship have faded, hopes and dreams die a long, slow, painful death.

This could not be more true for me. We were making plans together. And over the next week, Christmas week, I have to pack up my belongings and go. I realize now that even though the relationship ended over two months ago, I've still be hanging on to the dream we were creating together in this space. Maybe this will be my closure. Maybe once my things are packed, out, and I, for the last time, lock the front door of this place we started building together... .maybe then it will finally hit me that yes in fact it is really, finally, over.  :'(

This r/s was so much more to me than it ever was to her. But she pretended to play along. She was just filling a void until something more tempting came along and that nearly kills me to accept. But she was my sweetheart. She was the woman I had always dreamed of meeting and then finally did. I'm so tired of wishing. I spent the majority of my adult life wishing I would meet a woman that I was able to love just as she was, and she would love me for me. Well I did. And look what it has done to me. My life has been completely turned inside out. Everything that I had before I met her is gone. Now everything that we created together is about to disappear as well. When I leave I will have no clear direction for my future, no defined place to land and will not be in much of a position emotionally to put those critical pieces together. I depended on her in so many ways. And now all I have is me. And I'm so afraid that I won't make it okay.

I wanted to be the one for her so she could be the one for me. But I wasn't ever good enough in her eyes. And in my eyes she was always better than she actually was. In the end the truth always comes out. Even if it's only part of the truth. It's always just enough to let the light into your darkness and helps you to eventually find your way. Dear God how I wanted this to be true. I wanted this more than anything ever. But I guess what I wanted and what I got were two different things.

When I met my uBPDexgf and fell in love with her, I mentioned to someone close to me that "she would either be the greatest love of my life, or my worst heartache ever." There were only two choices it could have been. Unfortunately, I, like the majority of us on this board, got the latter. Lucky me.

Too painful... .sometimes this is all just too Goddamn painful.

An honest and heartbreaking post. I weep reading your words which were my own. Even with time, what pain having someone you loved so genuinely disappear. Leave their partner entirely alone with so much anguish to not only find the surface but to find a path alone that was once compassionately shared by two.   Im so sorry for you and for everyone who has endured this incredibly undeserved, unasked for, or sought after experience. 
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« Reply #56 on: December 18, 2014, 07:20:26 PM »

The important thing is we need to realize that we are mourning a fantasy. It never actually existed except in our minds. These people have it down to an art on how to build up our hopes and dreams.

I am still going through the stages of grief... .and the anger stage is a good one to be in sometimes - it provides relief from the pain.

But more and more I'm thinking that my ex is a lot like someone who has just hit their thumb with a hammer - in such an incredible amount of pain that it would be impossible for them to feel much empathy, or be concerned about anyone else for any reason, for that matter. Pain makes us all self absorbed. So I don't think it's an "art" so much as an intense self-focus on relieving their pain. And how awful that, while I can (and have) escaped it, there's no escape for them (without years and years of therapy).

As much as I hurt,  I know in time I will be better. To be honest,  I hurt for her more.  It isn't her fault she had a terrible childhood full of trauma (hers was very bad). I have been praying that she seek help and that God fills the void within her shattered heart.

Lots of people had bad childhoods.  Charles Manson did. Its a matter of choice how they treat and what they do to people. This idea of they were so hurt as a child and should be given a free pass is outrageous to me. Everyone should be held accountable for their actions. The whole" oh they were hurt as a child" stuff just sets us up when they try to recycle.  Those that forget the past are doomed to repeat it.

There's definitely a fine line but I think we can hold them accountable while still being compassionate. They are adults now and should be learning from their mistakes. It can be hard to be compassionate after dealing over and over again with a person who almost always assigns themselves the victim, especially when it's you they are blaming. I think compassion is important though, especially if you want to eventually forgive the person. I'm no longer compassionate in a way that I'm going to deal with the abuse, but I pray for my ex every night. I still care about him as a human being and I pray that he lets God and the clarity in his life so that he is able to heal and not continue hurting himself (and very likely more people) throughout the course of his life.
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« Reply #57 on: December 18, 2014, 07:34:12 PM »

Sandman,

I could have written this about my exBPDbf. Once again I am in tears here. I do not know where I am going either. My future was with him. We were engaged, we bought a timeshare together. I am now going alone. We bought an RV to travel the U.S. He has it, we were moving to Arizona in two years.

I have no idea what I am going to do now.

I am trying to work on me, reading, learning, working out but I am in pain too. I have lost weight, wake up and go to bed thinking of him... .even though he is the biggest a$$ ever. His crap still sits at my office. He never picked it up from our email two months ago.

Thank you for sharing you post.

Downwhim,

There is a $40k brand new Toyota Tundra sitting in my backyard that belongs to her staring at me everyday for over 2 months. You want to talk about intimidation?

We started a business together. Well, her need to control everything, and my inability to stand my ground, caused her to put everything in her name. So the truck is hers and has not moved from the day I parked it after our break. The night before our end, I deposited nearly $5000 into the business account, of course all in her name as well. Then she cut me off financially and I was officially replaced. She physically attacked me that night (I did not fight her back) and then tried to finish me off by attempting to smother me after I feel asleep. I filed charges the next day after an all day debate with myself and whether or not I should do it. A restraining order was put in place. This was not her first physical attack on me. It was like the fifth. We (she) bought the truck in June. Our r/s was officially over during early October. And at the time I was thinking "she just committed to a 3-year truck lease, the business is growing, what could go wrong?" To me it looked like we were in this for the long haul. I was very pleased. I just didn't know she was undeniably disordered and had an underlying compulsion to $pend. Oh, and then by that time she started cheating on me. Maybe it was the whole time. I just don't know for sure anymore. I could go on about many high-ticket items that were bought for the business that is now over. And it's my brand in her name and I worked my ass off to get it started and growing. I'm carrying what's left of the business, but the brand I created, for me anyway, is finished. I left that morning after her attack on me with $15 and the clothes on my back. I've tried to save what's left of the business, but without access to the financial resources, it's as good as dead. I left my job to get the business going. I lived in her apartment in one on the finest neighborhoods in a major US city without rent to pay. We spent nearly all of our time together. We had the business going and were looking forward to moving together to the space I'm living in now. And its all gone. And next week, on Christmas Eve, so will I be gone.

I have to go back to work for someone else again. I have to find an apartment and I don't even have a job yet. I'm almost out of money and I spend everyday walking around in a haze, with sore eyes, wondering what the happened to the life I was living just over two months ago. And she's facing multiple charges including a possible felony. Why? Why does life have to be like this? Why is it that we are teased by our hopes and dreams only to watch them come to life and then burn to the ground, while we just sit there nearly helpless to do much of anything to save it?

I know it could be worse. I could have had children with this woman and then where would I be? I'm still physically healthy - mentally is another story, but I'm working on that with a T. She invited me to live with her. I actually resisted at first because I thought it to be too soon and - get this - I was concerned if it was too good to be true where would that leave me? I'll tell you. It leaves me exactly where I am right now because it was all just to good to be true.

I wish you all the best moving forward.
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« Reply #58 on: December 18, 2014, 07:50:31 PM »

Normal people work things out. They compromise, negotiate, bend a little. Borderlines demand it is their way (which most the time doesn't make sense) and can change in a heartbeat. Normal people would say "let's work through this issue, problem etc." They are incapable of normalcy and it is just plain sad we got sucked into loving someone that could not truly be a mature adult with a healthy mind to work on problems.

I read this somewhere on this website:

"I don't want or mean to sound harsh but as a person who recovered from BPD I have to say, borderlines (as was I then) are emotionally immature. And that won't change without intensive therapy. So again, my message to nons is please do not fool yourself into thinking that you can love them ENOUGH to produce some kind of increase in emotional maturity. From my experience on both sides of BPD it definitely does not work that way.

To sum it up simply, because of all that happens to those who develop BPD they are not able to mature emotionally. They are caught back at very young ages of abandonment trauma and until it is resolved once and for all in therapy they will not have even the insight into the reality of how much they emotionally lack.

The lack is real. The lack is formidable. The lack requires professional help to be addressed appropriately.

Borderline immaturity is ingrained in what it means to have Borderline Personality Disorder. You, as a non borderline, cannot will or wish it away. You cannot change it. You also likely cannot live with all the pain that it continues to cause you either - it is the classic no-win rock and a hard place."

This is great, especially hearing from someone who had the disorder.
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« Reply #59 on: December 18, 2014, 08:03:52 PM »

Pou,

i'm embarrassed that he still scares me, though I do now see he has no super-powers! (it felt like it for a while.)

I just realized in the past several days that my ex scares me and that is a big part of the reason I hope to God I never see or hear from him again. When I told my therapist he said its because I was emotionally abused and am now having post traumatic stress. Maybe that is the case for you as well. They are great manipulators and we were so vulnerable with them that it is no wonder. They had our heart and our love and they ripped it into shreds. And the fact that they didn't do so with their #1 intention being to hurt us (they were just trying to protect themselves/get their needs met) makes it even more scary in my opinion. They are not in control, the sickness is. The disorder is a scary concept.
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« Reply #60 on: December 18, 2014, 10:59:29 PM »

Faith,

I start thinking i'm getting stronger--and I am in many ways--but thankfully my phone died in the middle of my uBPDh harassing me hard via text, telling me what a horrid, selfish person I am because I won't speak to him. That kinda sweet-talk oughta get me to open right up!

Yes, PTSD is alive and well and living in my body. I already had complex ptsd from my childhood, which I did not know, when I married him. He has harassed and harassed over the years until I would collapse into that scared child, and even mock me for it sometimes. So now I have Thing 1 and Thing 2 of complex ptsd. i'm trying to heal, I really am, but I still start trembling and my chest hurts and I can't breathe when he starts pushing like that even via text. HATEFUL.
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« Reply #61 on: December 19, 2014, 11:51:11 PM »

Sandman and Faith,

Thanks for your replies. I can sleep better tonight knowing that this disorder and these several years of togetherness were really not as I thought they were. I built up in my mind that things would get better, we could work it all out but I have no right to think I can defeat this illness. Surrendering is the only thing I can do and move on.
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« Reply #62 on: December 20, 2014, 06:44:15 AM »

Wow, Sand... .very simple but clear perspective... .maybe that's all it really is... .surrendering to the illness... .thanks for the early Christmas present
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« Reply #63 on: December 20, 2014, 08:58:17 AM »

 I’m crying because I've finally accepted that she’s not emotionally capable of the healthy, loving relationship I imagined we would have for the rest of our lives.  I’m crying because, even when all reasonable chances for a relationship have faded, hopes and dreams die a long, slow, painful death.[/quote]
That's right, the exact thing I relate to - hurts like hell and beyond.
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