Any explanation for literature for this?

[How to communicate after a contentious divorce...]

My question is this ~

Is it common for a person with BPD to find a perverse pleasure from yours or others misfortune. By either physical expression, such as a sly smile or verbally to others? Either emotional or physical pain or both.

I have many examples of this happening both currently and in the past. I just cannot find any literature for it. I feel that I am off in my assumptions because of this.

I am slowly coming out of the fog of this nightmare. I am gaining my confidence back and healing. From time to time when dealing with my Ex I see very odd behaviors and such. I am now working through parent alienation of sorts, but that is for another time.

[LeftSidePain]

My question is this ~

Is it common for a person with BPD to find a perverse pleasure from yours or others misfortune. By either physical expression, such as a sly smile or verbally to others? Either emotional or physical pain or both.

I have many examples of this happening both currently and in the past. I just cannot find any literature for it. I feel that I am off in my assumptions because of this.

I am slowly coming out of the fog of this nightmare. I am gaining my confidence back and healing. From time to time when dealing with my Ex I see very odd behaviors and such. I am now working through parent alienation of sorts, but that is for another time.

[Elpis]

I used to see that slight bit of a smile on my uBPDh's face when he was verbally abusing me. I even asked, "why are you smiling when you're saying those things?" and he would of course deny it.

For my h I know he felt best when in a one-up position over others, so it would make sense that if they aren't experiencing that particular misfortune they might feel better than the other person.

There's some great info about the types of pwBPD on another thread--let me go find that--where there might be some answers.

https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=239321.0

[enlighten me]

I saw it with both my exs. The more I came to realise about BPD the more I relate their emotions to a child. It is said that they are emotonally stunted/ imature and this shows through in a lot of things. The pain in others is like a child who is too scared to confront someone directly but takes pleasure when they hurt themselves. They also do the smear campaign which is another indirect way of causing pain to othrrs.

If they take pleasure in inflicting it directly it is because in their mind they have got justice. You did something to hurt them so they hurt you. Tit for tat. You nay not have even realised you did anything but in their mind you have.

[jammo1989]

My question is this ~

Is it common for a person with BPD to find a perverse pleasure from yours or others misfortune. By either physical expression, such as a sly smile or verbally to others? Either emotional or physical pain or both.

I have many examples of this happening both currently and in the past. I just cannot find any literature for it. I feel that I am off in my assumptions because of this.

I am slowly coming out of the fog of this nightmare. I am gaining my confidence back and healing. From time to time when dealing with my Ex I see very odd behaviors and such. I am now working through parent alienation of sorts, but that is for another time.

The smirk is to provoke you, it is used when combined with cruel remarks to strengthen the response of your reaction.

[Elpis]

Whatever is behind that smirk, it certainly isn't the response of a healthy and mature adult!

[charred]

Sure there is... look up "duper's delight"... you will get an excellent explanation. 

[LeftSidePain]

How distressing that is. The smirk, the joker smile, the fake happy attitude. So scary.

To see the person you loved and cared for so much willingly and intentionally try to hurt you. For no reason other than their own pain is killing them.

Thank you for the link Elpis.

I see she is a combination of the Hermit/Queen - Discouraged/Petulant type. Thankfully she has never been suicidal or addicted to drugs and alcohol. Playing a victim though has been her go to card until lately as it is becoming clearer to her that nobody really cares anymore and most people know I'm not the abusive monster she made me out to be.

The control though... .Oh my... .I can now see the controlling behavior through so much. From general public outbursts to denial of actions to simply being stubborn on a subject she was clearly wrong about. Very child like.

I cannot wait until I am at a point where I can look at her with weary eyes, shrug my shoulders and walk away with no emotions. I do most of that now, but second guess and replay the episode a million times until I drive myself crazy.

Better yet I can look at her with a smile, bright eyes and shrug my shoulders and say OK and walk away. No thought or concern afterwards.

[LeftSidePain]

Sure there is... look up "duper's delight"... you will get an excellent explanation.  

I just highlighted and right clicked that phrase. Google image made my heart drop and now I'm anxious to even read about it.

Google images show Amanda Knox's smile in that picture is what I am talking about. Tone it down just a bit, turn the chin down and look at the floor and there you have it. Made me sick to my stomach instantly.

My god... .

Came back to edit this -

I just read through the first 4 links and watched a video. Yes this is it. Yes this is scary. Glad I just faced my fear and learned something new. How effing disturbing  that is.

[Elpis]

That second guessing is the devil! I'm a huge second-guesser, and that uses up more energy than it deserves, yunno?

And you're welcome for the link!

But now i'm afraid to google the phrase "dupers delight"

[charred]

Sure there is... look up "duper's delight"... you will get an excellent explanation. 

I just highlighted and right clicked that phrase. Google image made my heart drop and now I'm anxious to even read about it.

Google images show Amanda Knox's smile in that picture is what I am talking about. Tone it down just a bit, turn the chin down and look at the floor and there you have it. Made me sick to my stomach instantly.

My god... .

There is a Ted Talk by Pamela Myer on Duping Delight... .it is disturbing. For me realizing my exBPDgf, and my NPD father... were constantly doing that... is what made it barfy.   

Always thought that if I just understood what was going on, could read behavior, then I would be able to deal with it, but understanding it, seems depressing as it is all about us, and our pwBPD are just more stricken than most people with bad behavior.

[mrshambles]

That is creepy as hell. My ex did this every time I caught her with a profile on a dating site, or if I put pieces of a puzzle together to figure out something bad she was doing. Never upset she got caught, never apologetic, always that sick smile followed by a breakup then recycle. This makes me sick.

[Elpis]

There is a Ted Talk by Pamela Myer on Duping Delight... .it is disturbing. For me realizing my exBPDgf, and my NPD father... were constantly doing that... is what made it barfy.   

Always thought that if I just understood what was going on, could read behavior, then I would be able to deal with it, but understanding it, seems depressing as it is all about us, and our pwBPD are just more stricken than most people with bad behavior.

I bet I just watched the Pamela Myer TED talk you mention--where she showed a truly grieving mother vs one who was proud of duping people by saying a stranger shot her kids when she actually did? SO SCARY.

I have always thought that same thing about "if I could read behavior then i'd be able to deal with it." So much wasted energy I've spent, looking at my mother or my husband's expressions and trying to understand! When I get feeling paranoid because of interactions with my uBPDh I start trying to read everyone's faces and I think they all think i'm stupid and worthless... .it's a horrible feeling. And not worth the trouble (though i'm still fascinated by the study of micro-expressions and such.)

I remember on the show Lie To Me when the young girl was added to their staff how they talked about the fact that the girl got really good at reading expressions because of growing up reading her abusive father's body language etc. And I thought BUT I DIDN'T LEARN THAT! I KEPT TRYING AND TRYING! Maybe that's why I ended up candy-coating my marriage, I didn't want to have to worry about what my h was really thinking or feeling. Who knows.

Elpis

[charred]

There is a Ted Talk by Pamela Myer on Duping Delight... .it is disturbing. For me realizing my exBPDgf, and my NPD father... were constantly doing that... is what made it barfy.   

Always thought that if I just understood what was going on, could read behavior, then I would be able to deal with it, but understanding it, seems depressing as it is all about us, and our pwBPD are just more stricken than most people with bad behavior.

I bet I just watched the Pamela Myer TED talk you mention--where she showed a truly grieving mother vs one who was proud of duping people by saying a stranger shot her kids when she actually did? SO SCARY.

I have always thought that same thing about "if I could read behavior then i'd be able to deal with it." So much wasted energy I've spent, looking at my mother or my husband's expressions and trying to understand! When I get feeling paranoid because of interactions with my uBPDh I start trying to read everyone's faces and I think they all think i'm stupid and worthless... .it's a horrible feeling. And not worth the trouble (though i'm still fascinated by the study of micro-expressions and such.)

I remember on the show Lie To Me when the young girl was added to their staff how they talked about the fact that the girl got really good at reading expressions because of growing up reading her abusive father's body language etc. And I thought BUT I DIDN'T LEARN THAT! I KEPT TRYING AND TRYING! Maybe that's why I ended up candy-coating my marriage, I didn't want to have to worry about what my h was really thinking or feeling. Who knows.

That was the TED talk I was referring to. It is chilling.

The comments about anger in a relationship could still mean it is a healthy relationship, but the dismissive contempt being a sign of real trouble... .is dead on.

My exBPDgf and others with PD's in my past... when they became contemptuous, felt justified in doing ANYTHING they wanted, as you were deemed deserving of it... .it would seem like it was for caring about them... but to them, it is for being so stupid as to believe them. Truly disgusting behavior.

[Trog]

Sure, my ex hurt me on purpose all the time towards the end and watched my face for reactions. She would tell me i deserved to be abused or that she no longer found me attractive just to be hurtful. They're disfunctional b8tches and we need to turn out backs. Simple as

[Elpis]

The comments about anger in a relationship could still mean it is a healthy relationship, but the dismissive contempt being a sign of real trouble... .is dead on.

My exBPDgf and others with PD's in my past... when they became contemptuous, felt justified in doing ANYTHING they wanted, as you were deemed deserving of it... .it would seem like it was for caring about them... but to them, it is for being so stupid as to believe them. Truly disgusting behavior.

Until I watched this video I hadn't even thought in terms of "contempt." Perhaps because that would be too painful for me. I've been trying to put my finger on the feeling my uBPDh portrays when he texts me or leaves messages on my phone, and the best I had come up with was that he is condescending... .but maybe dismissive contempt is the better choice of words. It's an "i'm talking down to you like you are the dog sh!t on my shoes" tone. And it cuts to the core when it's from someone I loved and supported for 38 years of my life... .

[charred]

The comments about anger in a relationship could still mean it is a healthy relationship, but the dismissive contempt being a sign of real trouble... .is dead on.

My exBPDgf and others with PD's in my past... when they became contemptuous, felt justified in doing ANYTHING they wanted, as you were deemed deserving of it... .it would seem like it was for caring about them... but to them, it is for being so stupid as to believe them. Truly disgusting behavior.

Until I watched this video I hadn't even thought in terms of "contempt." Perhaps because that would be too painful for me. I've been trying to put my finger on the feeling my uBPDh portrays when he texts me or leaves messages on my phone, and the best I had come up with was that he is condescending... .but maybe dismissive contempt is the better choice of words. It's an "i'm talking down to you like you are the dog sh!t on my shoes" tone. And it cuts to the core when it's from someone I loved and supported for 38 years of my life... .

I am sorry. The hardest part of dealing with having had a r/s with a pwBPD... is accepting the ugly reality as it is. I worked hard at rationalizing anything my pwBPD did as somehow being right... or me being at fault for it,  but eventually she was so openly contemptuous of me that I couldn't dismiss it.  I spent 30 yrs under her spell... so I know how hard it is to give up the dream part of the r/s, and get grounded and look at the moment to moment relating... .once I did that, the spell broke and painful as it was, I was able to move on.

When you question the flattery, require proof of the the accusations and wild claims they make and refuse to give the benefit of the doubt... you are often met with a 180 degree change that can only be them thinking the gig is up and they better run.

Mine used to switch to some sarcastic baby talk every time she was truly dishing out the dismissive contempt.

My reaction to the Ted talk... is to feel like I was a chump, to have been subjected to such vitriol over and over, and keep coming back for more... .dismissing it, as I didn't want to believe what accepting it at face value meant.

[Elpis]

My reaction to the Ted talk... is to feel like I was a chump, to have been subjected to such vitriol over and over, and keep coming back for more... .dismissing it, as I didn't want to believe what accepting it at face value meant.

Well, me too clearly. And with 30 years under your belt of making excuses for their behavior and trying to figure out how to work with that bad behavior it's hard to shake your head and clear it to the point of realizing the situation for what it is--something you never could have really changed, no matter how hard you tried, unless the other person was equally invested in the positive outcome.

I still am susceptible to his guilting and shaming, but i'm learning to see it, recognize it, and not respond. Simply the fact that I am no longer in the same house with him lessens his "power" to affect me.

[Climbmountains91]

Ive been seeing that scary smirk recently. He never did it in the past. Like hell question me about things ex: if I've done anything with his friend, ill get all defensive (need to break that habit) and hell just kinda like drop it, smirk and chuckle to himself like he knows something (made up something else in his head i don't know about. But i just let him get on with it, its a bit freaky but hey what can you do. Im detached (getting there) now, never thought id come this far as i have so its all good !

[Elpis]

Ive been seeing that scary smirk recently. He never did it in the past. Like hell question me about things ex: if I've done anything with his friend, ill get all defensive (need to break that habit) and hell just kinda like drop it, smirk and chuckle to himself like he knows something (made up something else in his head i don't know about. But i just let him get on with it, its a bit freaky but hey what can you do. Im detached (getting there) now, never thought id come this far as i have so its all good !

I was the premier JADE-er over the years with my uBPDh. I told him one time that why does someone feel the need to defend themselves? because they feel attacked! His words and actions seemed very attacking. (I remember the J is for justify and the D for defend, can't remember the other 2!) Detaching sure does take time... .

Elpis