Why do we recycle?

[Xidion]

I just got recycled for a week. I'm actually glad that I was short lived. Anything long term would have hurt me a lot more.

I never thought in a million years this would happen. My ex said that my replacement was an upgrade,  that I never treated her good, that she doesn't want me. Very cruel things.

2 months post bu and 30 days no contact and she is texting me which led to sex, love bombing, the whole nine. Was super intense for a few days.

She was already devaluing the replacement, which seemed pretty fast to me. Usually they idealized for awhile.

The amazing thing is that she actually dumped the replacement via text right in front of me. She followed through by telling him she still loved me

So my question is, why do they recycle?  Especially in my case... .it only lasted a week. My guesses are that maybe she just wanted to test me to see if I was still available. I'm currently being ignored as I tried texting her today... no response.

She ended it by saying she needed to work on herself with nobody before she can start to become a better person.

I'll put some money down they she will re engage again and tell me she has been going to therapy and whatnot as she knows I think there is something wrong with her. It's pretty fascinating to me, honestly.

Any and all opinions are welcome.

[Waifed]

My guess is that she missed you and idealized you and was happy to see you. The intensity probably then triggered her abandonment fears. This happened at an accelerated pace the last month of my relationship. I didn't know about BPD at the time so it was very confusing. I made it worse by putting pressure on her and telling her I wasn't staying because she had cheated. I think when it gets to this point backing off and showing indifference would be the only way to calm their nerves. Unfortunately backing off is a form of catering to their desire of poor boundaries.

Once triggered by us the recycle periods are shorter and shorter in duration. It's a no win situation.

[Skip]

The amazing thing is that she actually dumped the replacement via text right in front of me. She followed through by telling him she still loved me

It's probably more about her relationship with him than you at this point.

[Xidion]

Makes sense. On the day she ended it again she went from intense love bombing to telling me she was scared. So that tells me some sort of fear was triggered.

I don't know why, but I keep wondering if I will hear from her again. I honestly think she loves me, and that's why she has a hard time dealing with being with me. She is afraid of me abandoning her.

[fromheeltoheal]

I just got recycled for a week.

You might consider rephrasing that; you chose to recycle with her, part of taking your power back.

So my question is, why do they recycle?  Especially in my case... .it only lasted a week. My guesses are that maybe she just wanted to test me to see if I was still available.

Yep, think attachments with borderlines; she tested to see if one was still in place, and it was.

She ended it by saying she needed to work on herself with nobody before she can start to become a better person.

That's good awareness and applies to all of us at least a little.  Let's hope she follows through.

[Xidion]

I feel like she thinks she has me wrapped around her little finger emotionally and that I will always love her. I messes up by telling her that she could hurt me over and over and I would still love her.

[fromheeltoheal]

I feel like she thinks she has me wrapped around her little finger emotionally and that I will always love her. I messes up by telling her that she could hurt me over and over and I would still love her.

Someone mentioned something on a thread that has stuck with me: we went from the admired to the admirer, slowly and subtly, not really noticing it was happening until we were deep in it.  Certainly true for me, and a major wake-up.

It will be up to you what you put up with, and if you change expect a probable backlash, which will test your resolve, and eventually she'll accept the severing of the attachment and move on for good.

[Xidion]

I feel like she thinks she has me wrapped around her little finger emotionally and that I will always love her. I messes up by telling her that she could hurt me over and over and I would still love her.

Someone mentioned something on a thread that has stuck with me: we went from the admired to the admirer, slowly and subtly, not really noticing it was happening until we were deep in it.  Certainly true for me, and a major wake-up.

It will be up to you what you put up with, and if you change expect a probable backlash, which will test your resolve, and eventually she'll accept the severing of the attachment and move on for good.

I'm putting all of my focus into all the terrible things she has done to me. Hopefully that will build my defenses. My no contact starts tomorrow, it will be day one after the recycle this past weekend.

I pray she never contacts me again... .but with her knowing that I still love her chances are she will try once she is in need.

[Blimblam]

So, xideon why did you recycle?

[Xidion]

So, xideon why did you recycle?

Because I still loved her and I had to see it for myself. I had to see if she was capable of being real, honest, and sorry for all her actions. I wanted a chance at the hopes and dreams I once had for us.

[drummerboy]

Simple, go 100% NC, start working on yourself as to why you are up for this sort of treatment (basically you are showing her that you are like a lovesick puppy) and then look for a mentally healthy woman. Seriously, why sink more time and emotion into this dead end turmoil?

[fromheeltoheal]

I pray she never contacts me again... .but with her knowing that I still love her chances are she will try once she is in need.

You can still love her and let her go, it's about loving yourself more.  I still love the beautiful girl buried under all the crap in my ex, but that girl isn't available to either of us sustainably, so it was time to cut my losses and love myself more.

[Blimblam]

So, xideon why did you recycle?

Because I still loved her and I had to see it for myself. I had to see if she was capable of being real, honest, and sorry for all her actions. I wanted a chance at the hopes and dreams I once had for us.

Who is "her" and who is the "hopes and dreams," associated with "us?"

Are you upset at her because she failed to meet the expectations of your hopes and dreams? Isn't putting the responsibility of your hopes and dreams on someone just barely trying to survive one day at a time unfair to her and yourself?

[myself]

'Two steps forward and one step back' isn't always a negative expression or reality. Sometimes we needed to take that step back to be better able to take those next steps forward. We've all been there. Keep going.

[Xidion]

So, xideon why did you recycle?

Because I still loved her and I had to see it for myself. I had to see if she was capable of being real, honest, and sorry for all her actions. I wanted a chance at the hopes and dreams I once had for us.

Who is "her" and who is the "hopes and dreams," associated with "us?"

Are you upset at her because she failed to meet the expectations of your hopes and dreams? Isn't putting the responsibility of your hopes and dreams on someone just barely trying to survive one day at a time unfair to her and yourself?

Why shouldn't I be upset with her? She made promises that she couldn't keep for even 1 day. The hopes and dreams of having a happy and healthy relationship.  To work through it and be there for one another like we talked about.

[Blimblam]

So, xideon why did you recycle?

Because I still loved her and I had to see it for myself. I had to see if she was capable of being real, honest, and sorry for all her actions. I wanted a chance at the hopes and dreams I once had for us.

Who is "her" and who is the "hopes and dreams," associated with "us?"

Are you upset at her because she failed to meet the expectations of your hopes and dreams? Isn't putting the responsibility of your hopes and dreams on someone just barely trying to survive one day at a time unfair to her and yourself?

Why shouldn't I be upset with her? She made promises that she couldn't keep for even 1 day. The hopes and dreams of having a happy and healthy relationship.  To work through it and be there for one another like we talked about.

Who introduced those conditions? Her or you?

[Xidion]

During the recycle? She did. She wanted it. She talked about counseling. She wanted to go get relationship books. She told me she would never leave again. She told me she was here to stay.

[Blimblam]

During the recycle? She did. She wanted it. She talked about counseling. She wanted to go get relationship books. She told me she would never leave again. She told me she was here to stay.

So she was mirroring?

[Xidion]

During the recycle? She did. She wanted it. She talked about counseling. She wanted to go get relationship books. She told me she would never leave again. She told me she was here to stay.

So she was mirroring?

Most likely. I believed every word of it, too. Which I guess is ultimately my fault. But how can she mirror thoughts? Did she know what I wanted to hear?

[Blimblam]

During the recycle? She did. She wanted it. She talked about counseling. She wanted to go get relationship books. She told me she would never leave again. She told me she was here to stay.

So she was mirroring?

Why do you think she would mirror your desires?

Most likely. I believed every word of it, too. Which I guess is ultimately my fault. But how can she mirror thoughts? Did she know what I wanted to hear?

[Xidion]

During the recycle? She did. She wanted it. She talked about counseling. She wanted to go get relationship books. She told me she would never leave again. She told me she was here to stay.

So she was mirroring?

Why do you think she would mirror your desires?

Most likely. I believed every word of it, too. Which I guess is ultimately my fault. But how can she mirror thoughts? Did she know what I wanted to hear?

Probably to get me to lower my guard and give her sex, love , and attention like she wanted. What do you think?

[bunnyrabit]

Why do we recycle? I guess for me I was somehow not done yet. Even though the previous breakups and the events preceding it were just as horrible as with the latest breakup, it somehow feels different now.

I think my mind just wasn't able to grasp that she is truly mentally ill and that there's not a normal and decent person underneath all of the behaviors. I think I get it now, at least I hope so... .I do know that this time I've cut all lines of communications, something I've never done before. I went NC before for long stretches of time but I've never truly cut her out, until now.

So yeah, recycles, nothing good can come of it and sometimes we need to try one more time just to make sure we weren't just doing something wrong before that we can still fix. Which isn't a bad thing in the long run, better then leaving some doubts lingering in the back of the mind. We've been tricked, lead to believe that we could win a fantastic prize if we just try a little bit harder, but the game is rigged man, there are no prizes... .They're love frauds.

[Blimblam]

I think placing our hopes and dreams on the shoulders of our partner creates pressure for them to conform to our reality and that pressure feels engulfing to them. They try to be this person to recieve the love they desire and it places us in a position to be critical of them while avoiding ourselves by making them responsible and unconciously we chose a person who could not live up to this because we identify with this person.  We love this person but we give them conditional love that pushes them away only to realize we love them unconditionally.

[Xidion]

This recycle only lasted 6 days. That's pretty short. From what I've heard, they just get shorter and shorter until they eventually stop. I hope the shortness of this is a sign that she won't be back anytime soon. It will take me some time to work on myself and build my defenses.

[Xidion]

I think placing our hopes and dreams on the shoulders of our partner creates pressure for them to conform to our reality and that pressure feels engulfing to them. They try to be this person to recieve the love they desire and it places us in a position to be critical of them while avoiding ourselves by making them responsible and unconciously we chose a person who could not live up to this because we identify with this person.  We love this person but we give them conditional love that pushes them away only to realize we love them unconditionally.

I'm pretty sure she felt engulfed with all of the plans of counseling and whatnot. And also the fact that I returned all of her love bombing with my own love bombing. Probably why it only lasted 6 days.

[Blimblam]

If she realizes she needs therapy etc. Should she do this for her or for you?

[Xidion]

If she realizes she needs therapy etc. Should she do this for her or for you?

Definitely for herself. She needs to find herself.  She needs an identity of her own. With or without me, she needs to learn to be happy on her own. Her quality of life begins with herself and no one else.

[Blimblam]

If she realizes she needs therapy etc. Should she do this for her or for you?

Definitely for herself. She needs to find herself.  She needs an identity of her own. With or without me, she needs to learn to be happy on her own. Her quality of life begins with herself and no one else.

I want that for my ex too. The thing that was hard for me is when she would say she wanted to find herself and just run off and back into her pattern.  I wanted her to change and to get into therapy and to understand she was just running from herself.  I wanted that becuase that's what it would take for their to be an us.  I wanted it for the us more than for her.  I wanted it for her too but on my conditions.  The thing is underneath all the conditions of my love for her I love her unconditionally and she can feel the pressure of all these conditions and maybe that's just a reflection of all the conditions I put on myself to feel loved. 

[Xidion]

If she realizes she needs therapy etc. Should she do this for her or for you?

Definitely for herself. She needs to find herself.  She needs an identity of her own. With or without me, she needs to learn to be happy on her own. Her quality of life begins with herself and no one else.

I want that for my ex too. The thing that was hard for me is when she would say she wanted to find herself and just run off and back into her pattern.  I wanted her to change and to get into therapy and to understand she was just running from herself.  I wanted that becuase that's what it would take for their to be an us.  I wanted it for the us more than for her.  I wanted it for her too but on my conditions.  The thing is underneath all the conditions of my love for her I love her unconditionally and she can feel the pressure of all these conditions and maybe that's just a reflection of all the conditions I put on myself to feel loved. 

I will always have love and compassion for my ex... regardless of what she put me through. Under that beautiful face is a tormented soul. She deserves to be happy in life, with or without me. I hope she finds herself. I hope she gains an identity. Only then will she be able to sustain herself in a relationship. IF there is any chance of a relationship between her and I later in the future, she has to find herself and be able to be happy by herself.

[Blimblam]

Examine the conditions xideon. Hopefully you are in a position you hVe a therapist to help you with all that.

[Infern0]

In my case I think it's just down to ego now. I honestly don't want anything to do with her,  she's disgraceful.  I just want to "beat" that clown of a replacement.

Thankfully I realize my logic is floored so I am trying to stay the hell away

[Xidion]

In my case I think it's just down to ego now. I honestly don't want anything to do with her,  she's disgraceful.  I just want to "beat" that clown of a replacement.

Thankfully I realize my logic is floored so I am trying to stay the hell away

This is the craziest roller coaster I have ever ridden.

[Xidion]

I won't lie, it felt pretty good to get revenge on my replacement and to witness her dumping him.

[jhkbuzz]

Makes sense. On the day she ended it again she went from intense love bombing to telling me she was scared. So that tells me some sort of fear was triggered.

I don't know why, but I keep wondering if I will hear from her again. I honestly think she loves me, and that's why she has a hard time dealing with being with me. She is afraid of me abandoning her.

More wisdom from user 2010:

"Borderlines do not have a stable sense of “self.” Therefore, they are keenly aware of other people’s sense of themselves and have a strong desire to attach to that “self” for safety. This attachment has an emotional quotient to the Borderline that serves the disordered thoughts and subsequent fears of annihilation /or abandonment.

Annihilation, the anxiety that the Borderline will never become a “self” is one fear - while abandonment, (the anxiety that the Borderline will be left behind and unsafe in the World without the partner’s attachment) is the other. These dual fears move back and forth on an opposing pendulum (black and white, all or none, good vs. bad) and they swing in response to the partner’s actions. In a sense, they are reactive actions to the partner’s actions, but the partner’s actions are *Borderline perceptions* based on their disordered thought process.

In other words, Borderlines have compulsive thoughts based on fear and those thoughts fuel their actions. The partner may not even have done anything to warrant the fear, but the Borderline’s reaction is based on incorrect perception brought forth from the underlying disorder. This is exactly why the personality is disordered; the Borderline’s thoughts are leading to incorrect assumptions. It's Borderline to delusion.

The drive for Borderline is to find reward (attachment,) only to see it withdraw (abandon). Panic ensues and a new drive begins for new reward. What was once focused upon always withdraws, (abandons) and the Borderline begins the search for new reward (attachment.) In the meantime, the old attachment reward (that’s YOU - the one that was perceived as withdrawing) now returns on the pendulum swing, and the Borderline renews their longing to attach to you, only to have the disorder flip the reward back to withdrawing and the anxiety raised to the point that another self (other than the current partner) has to be found.

It’s a debilitating disorder, one that the partner needs to become aware of as they are recycled and make efforts to protect from the rebound. There is no future happiness in the dysfunction of their compulsions.

When you are pulled into this dysfunction, find a way to step out of the maelstrom and take a look at how you got there. If you're like most of us, the common thread is that you cared enough to want this to work out - but you were no match for a personality disorder, and like the rest of us we had to realize that it's beyond any of our help. Healing will come when you depersonalize the disorder and realize that acting out behavior and push/pull is done to everyone. There wasn't a thing you could do about it.  Any acting out behaviors were only the disorder's way of showing itself as (Borderline usually remains hidden until its triggered) and it wasn't due to anything that you consciously did or didn't do. Borderline personality was in the picture before you came on the scene - it's a compulsive thought process based on incorrect perceptions.

You didn't cause it, you can't cure it and you can't control it. There's not a thing you could do about it. It's happened, but you're going to put up a wall now to block it from hurting you again. You loved this person, that won't change. But you are going to have to prevent the disorder from entering your life again and harming you and that means first forgiving yourself for any actions you feel that may have contributed to the Borderline's behavior - it wasn't you that caused this, it was "Borderline thought" instead."

[jhkbuzz]

I feel like she thinks she has me wrapped around her little finger emotionally and that I will always love her. I messes up by telling her that she could hurt me over and over and I would still love her.

Someone mentioned something on a thread that has stuck with me: we went from the admired to the admirer, slowly and subtly, not really noticing it was happening until we were deep in it.  Certainly true for me, and a major wake-up.

OHMIGOD ain't that the truth!

[jhkbuzz]

You can still love her and let her go, it's about loving yourself more.  I still love the beautiful girl buried under all the crap in my ex, but that girl isn't available to either of us sustainably, so it was time to cut my losses and love myself more.

I often wish there was a "like" button on posts!

[Xidion]

Today is day 1 of back to no contact. It makes me nervous to think of hearing from her. I still love her, even though I don't know who "her" is.

I don't want to accept this abuse,  but at the same time,  when she is texting me or in front of me,  she can play me like a fiddle.

[Deeno02]

I hope to god Im not placed in that situation. Im having none of that BS anymore... .

[fromheeltoheal]

I don't want to accept this abuse,  but at the same time,  when she is texting me or in front of me,  she can play me like a fiddle.

One thing that worked well for me was to get really fcking pissed off, do it by focusing on all the bullsht you tolerated, and that can be enough to shield you from the kryptonite that is borderline allure on full blast.  It will feel good, promise.

[downwhim]

I agree, get angry. Get pissed at all she has put you through. Yes, you love her, we all love these sick people but she plays you like a puppet. You deserve respect and real love. This game needs to end. If you block her texts, emails etc. you will not receive more pain. Only you can decide whether or not you are going to go completely N/C or leave yourself open to more abuse.

[Trog]

I feel like she thinks she has me wrapped around her little finger emotionally and that I will always love her. I messes up by telling her that she could hurt me over and over and I would still love her.

Someone mentioned something on a thread that has stuck with me: we went from the admired to the admirer, slowly and subtly, not really noticing it was happening until we were deep in it.  Certainly true for me, and a major wake-up.

It will be up to you what you put up with, and if you change expect a probable backlash, which will test your resolve, and eventually she'll accept the severing of the attachment and move on for good.

I didn't go from the admired to the admirer, I always thought she was pretty bizarre and was always embarressed of her but she is very extreme person. I went from thinking she was very attractive, having incredible sex to slowly becoming dependent on her and choosing caving in for a quiet life. In 7 years I didn't once win an argument she never let up and never apologised.

[Trog]

I recycled because I loved her and listened to the words as opposed to the actions. I hoped, because I had a pretty good control of other situations, that things would improve simply due to my effort. I recycled twice, one at her initiation and one at mine. If I could believe she would get well and not hurt me and my intentions at heart (ie - she loved me!) I would be for her only for the way we were together physically, I don't mean sex I just mean we seemed to fit well. However, I just don't believe that will happen. Stripping away all PDs etc, guess I just got my heart broken for the first time. I had big dreams, babies, nice house, romance. I am sad to have lost my dream. Guess gods got other plans for us.

[Skip]

Does this hit home for anyone?

https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=120215.0

... .is time that we sit down and analyze why we keep returning to the relationship.

• Are we returning to this person because we are in love with them or are we returning to this relationship because it feels safe?  

• Are we afraid to be alone?  

• Do we have abandonment issues?  

• Are we fearful that we cannot find someone as good as them again (a hard one to admit, but I’ve read it many times)?  

• Are we fearful of the next step (dating, financial issues, etc.)

[Blimblam]

Xideon the realization I came to is who I want my ex to be to be able to maintain a relationship with her without her hurting me and who she is are two different things. It doesn't mean I love her any less but she crossed a line with me and if I remained in her life I would be enabling that bad behavior.

It may have been possible at a certain point to maintain firm boundaries and it lasted longer or possibly even work but that's not what happened. 

The thing is I knew this because I had been through a breakup with a pwBPD before and learned the lesson of recycles and how painful it was for me.

We can tell you everything in the world why you should or shouldn't but maybe you need to live it for yourself to know for yourself and if you do it's nothing to feel guilty about or ashamed of. Maybe you learned why for yourself already.

At a certain point the pain seems to outweigh the reward of the recycle and that's when it ends.

[eyvindr]

For me, this, yes --

Because I still loved her and I had to see it for myself. I had to see if she was capable of being real, honest, and sorry for all her actions. I wanted a chance at the hopes and dreams I once had for us.

And, yes --

You can still love her and let her go, it's about loving yourself more.  I still love the beautiful girl buried under all the crap in my ex, but that girl isn't available to either of us sustainably, so it was time to cut my losses and love myself more.

This is what makes it so sad, and so hard to detach, for me. For many of us, I would imagine. Our hearts fell in love with the person they presented to us -- which very often is just a projection of the our love for them, reflected back at us. I don't really think the love was displaced -- if it is, I take ownership for that. I think all of the faces that they showed us were real, to both of us. But we only fell for the best one, and didn't sign up for the others. BPD is a package deal. We don't get to pick and choose the good bits.

[drummerboy]

It helped my recovery when I realised that I fell in love with a myth, a fairytale. There was no reality to it, it was as if she wrote a wonderful children fairytale and we acted it out for a while. The hard part was, and still is to a degree, that the idealisation phase was so f&*%ing great, I just have to keep reminding myself it was an unsustainable fiction and in reality it was a huge fraud, a fraud that I played a not insignificant part in.

[fromheeltoheal]

Our hearts fell in love with the person they presented to us -- which very often is just a projection of the our love for them, reflected back at us.

So if you fell in love with a reflection, that means you actually fell in love with yourself; how cool is that?  Not only cool, but you get to take it with you, keep it, and share it with someone who can reciprocate.  Hallelujah!

[jhkbuzz]

Our hearts fell in love with the person they presented to us -- which very often is just a projection of the our love for them, reflected back at us.

So if you fell in love with a reflection, that means you actually fell in love with yourself; how cool is that?  Not only cool, but you get to take it with you, keep it, and share it with someone who can reciprocate.  Hallelujah!

fromheeltoheal:  I love reading your posts! 

[jhkbuzz]

I recycled because I loved her and listened to the words as opposed to the actions. I hoped, because I had a pretty good control of other situations, that things would improve simply due to my effort.

WOW Trog this is EXACTLY how I thought... .and how ___ed up is that, huh?  I really believed that I had enough love for her and stability & strength in myself that I could "fix" the problems in our relationship.

Not only do I not have that kind of control over another human being, but if I'm really being honest in looking back at it, I'd have to say it's kind of arrogant and selfish.  I wanted it to work because I wanted it to work for me.  And I thought I actually had that kind of power?  What the heck... .

[eyvindr]

I'm with ya.

I recycled because I loved her and listened to the words as opposed to the actions. I hoped, because I had a pretty good control of other situations, that things would improve simply due to my effort.

WOW Trog this is EXACTLY how I thought... .and how ___ed up is that, huh? I really believed that I had enough love for her and stability & strength in myself that I could "fix" the problems in our relationship.

Pretty presumptuous of us, right? Though, in our defense -- I think it's pretty reasonable to feel like you can influence the outcome of a situation. It's our rational minds simply doing their rational thing. Especially if in most areas of our lives, we've demonstrated the capacity to be flexible, understanding, reasonable -- we don't need to sell ourselves short here. Yes, it's pretty arrogant to think we can control another person's behavior -- but finding out you have a partner who is (or may be) suffering from BPD is a bit of a wildcard.

I think where we go wrong is when we begin to fully realize that this is what we're dealing with, and still attempt to apply reason to solving it. Because it's an existential emotional problem, not a logical one. That's exactly the junction where the overwhelming frustration and a sense of helplessness kicked in for me. Because we love our partners, we don't want to give up. In my case, I tried even harder to make it work, by redoubling my efforts to apply reason to it -- which I can see now was a completely futile strategy. I can even see where that would irritate and frustrate the hell out of even a rational partner.

I think I'm beginning to see a pattern in my approach to this. When I missed red flags during the "getting to know each other" phase, that set the stage for falling in love with my partner. Once I began realizing that those weird little behaviors, seemingly out of proportion emotional responses to things actually were flags, I needed to see them for what they were -- signs of dysregulation -- versus assuming they were just little things that could be resolved with reason.

I think in my relationships with troubled women, I've diminished red flags in a unconscious effort to convince myself that I could still make the relationship work. Because my hopes to have the kind of ideal r-ship that I wanted with the people I was in love with was very high, because I was very in love with them.

That's pretty enlightening for me. Almost simple, really. These boards are terrific. I need to hang on to this realization and think about it some more.   

[Deeno02]

Does this hit home for anyone?

https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=120215.0

... .is time that we sit down and analyze why we keep returning to the relationship.

• Are we returning to this person because we are in love with them or are we returning to this relationship because it feels safe?  

• Are we afraid to be alone?  

• Do we have abandonment issues?  

• Are we fearful that we cannot find someone as good as them again (a hard one to admit, but I’ve read it many times)?  

• Are we fearful of the next step (dating, financial issues, etc.)

Yes to all but the first one. I'm not returning. I can't. I barely survived this one. Plus, I would set a bad example for my kids condoning an abusive relationship. No way. Everything else is being addressed with my T. She's on her own. I can't and wont help her. It's the new guys problem, not mine

[jhkbuzz]

I'm with ya.

I recycled because I loved her and listened to the words as opposed to the actions. I hoped, because I had a pretty good control of other situations, that things would improve simply due to my effort.

WOW Trog this is EXACTLY how I thought... .and how ___ed up is that, huh? I really believed that I had enough love for her and stability & strength in myself that I could "fix" the problems in our relationship.

Pretty presumptuous of us, right? Though, in our defense -- I think it's pretty reasonable to feel like you can influence the outcome of a situation. It's our rational minds simply doing their rational thing. Especially if in most areas of our lives, we've demonstrated the capacity to be flexible, understanding, reasonable -- we don't need to sell ourselves short here. Yes, it's pretty arrogant to think we can control another person's behavior -- but finding out you have a partner who is (or may be) suffering from BPD is a bit of a wildcard.

I think where we go wrong is when we begin to fully realize that this is what we're dealing with, and still attempt to apply reason to solving it. Because it's an existential emotional problem, not a logical one. That's exactly the junction where the overwhelming frustration and a sense of helplessness kicked in for me. Because we love our partners, we don't want to give up. In my case, I tried even harder to make it work, by redoubling my efforts to apply reason to it -- which I can see now was a completely futile strategy. I can even see where that would irritate and frustrate the hell out of even a rational partner.

I think I'm beginning to see a pattern in my approach to this. When I missed red flags during the "getting to know each other" phase, that set the stage for falling in love with my partner. Once I began realizing that those weird little behaviors, seemingly out of proportion emotional responses to things actually were flags, I needed to see them for what they were -- signs of dysregulation -- versus assuming they were just little things that could be resolved with reason.

I think in my relationships with troubled women, I've diminished red flags in a unconscious effort to convince myself that I could still make the relationship work. Because my hopes to have the kind of ideal r-ship that I wanted with the people I was in love with was very high, because I was very in love with them.

That's pretty enlightening for me. Almost simple, really. These boards are terrific. I need to hang on to this realization and think about it some more.  

And I'm going to hang on to this post - what you've said is very, very true for me as well.  We do need to go easy on ourselves - BPD is one of the biggest "wildcards" there is.  But it's equally important understand ourselves (how we tick) and our motives (what we wanted) before we can heal and move forward into healthier relationships.

Thank you!

One more thing though.  You said:

I think I'm beginning to see a pattern in my approach to this. When I missed red flags during the "getting to know each other" phase, that set the stage for falling in love with my partner. Once I began realizing that those weird little behaviors, seemingly out of proportion emotional responses to things actually were flags, I needed to see them for what they were -- signs of dysregulation -- versus assuming they were just little things that could be resolved with reason.

Unless you knew you were dealing with someone with BPD (or any other personality disorder, for that matter), it would be very difficult to recognize those "weird little behaviors" as anything other than quirks.

I often wonder if the outcome of my r/s would have been any different if I had known about BPD from the beginning... .but I doubt it.  Knowing about the disorder only solves half the problem - it doesn't solve anything for our partners.

And now, moving forward, we will need to work to recognize those red flags - for our own sanity.

[eyvindr]

jhkbuzz --

Thanks -- it's always encouraging to hear when someone can relate to something I've posted here, in my quest to figure myself out. To hear that it may have helped you deepen your own understanding -- well,k thank you. I have to admit, sometimes I can start to feel like all of this... .all of my efforts to make some sense of it all -- it can just feel like words, words, words. Nothing but a sea of words. I wonder if I'm just drowning in it, sometimes.

So, thank you for saying what you did. I appreciate it.

Unless you knew you were dealing with someone with BPD (or any other personality disorder, for that matter), it would be very difficult to recognize those "weird little behaviors" as anything other than quirks.

I agree. And, in my case, it sure has been difficult for me -- go find my recent thread on "Am I finally learning?" and you can see how no matter how diligent I think I'm being, I pretty much keep landing in the same place! I'm tired of being there!

Part of it, for me, may be as simple as something a number of friends have said to me through the years -- "you're just too nice." I think they're a more accurate statement would be that I may be too patient. Combined with what my mother told me when I recently asked her, "geez, Mom -- what is wrong with me? Why do I keep doing this?" She said, pretty matter-of-factly: "You've always been very romantic." Which I take to me leaning on the unrealistic side of things, when it comes to choosing relationship partners.

Maybe growing up as a kid during the '60's filled my brain with flowery delusions!

Hang in there!

[jhkbuzz]

I have to admit, sometimes I can start to feel like all of this... .all of my efforts to make some sense of it all -- it can just feel like words, words, words. Nothing but a sea of words. I wonder if I'm just drowning in it, sometimes.

I know what you mean... .I feel like, at some point, it will become counterproductive - like an unhealthy way to hang onto the pain or a way to keep the connection to our ex's alive, if that makes sense.  But I don't think it's counterproductive yet - processing the chaos (so we can finally put it to rest) is important.  I also think it's productive as long as we are shifting to examining ourselves (instead of constantly dissecting our exBPD partners).

... .no matter how diligent I think I'm being, I pretty much keep landing in the same place! I'm tired of being there!

Part of it, for me, may be as simple as something a number of friends have said to me through the years -- "you're just too nice."

Hmmm... .I don't think so.  If there's a pattern in YOUR life there's something that needs to be explored/understood/resolved.  Have you ever seen a T?  I started seeing one (for my sanity and to deal with the chaos of what was happening in my r/s) right before my exBPDgf and I broke up... .so it's been about 6 months now.  I can look back at the course of the sessions and see how we've begun to shift the focus - off my ex, onto me. There is work I need to do on me - things I need to identify, things that I may need to resolve in myself - before I get into another r/s.  Painful though the process may be, I want to do it because I never want to experience a repeat performance of what I just went through... .

[eyvindr]

JRT --

Thanks for the feedback. I see a lot of similarities between our experiences.

I have seen therapists, and I've shared a lot of the same questions with them. I'm not in any way opposed to the process -- I've gone of my own volition, and stuck with regular sessions for sometimes over a year.

The end result is I still have the same questions. That and meditation keep leading me back to one potential and simple possibility: That I just don't know when enough is enough, and once I'm in a r-ship, I worry too much about the other person's feelings to the sacrifice of my own "big picture" needs -- like, what do I want out of this lifetime, and who do I want to experience it with?

I don't know. I do tend to abstract emotional things when I'm trying to process them. Seems to be an effective way of figuring out what's going on inside. And I also think I diminish the importance of things like what I said above -- because it's so simple, if that's it, isn't it? And, if it's that simple, it almost immediately stops feeling like a big deal.

Obviously, I'm attracted to troubled women for some reason, and they're attracted to me for some reason. Is it unreasonable for me to start to think it may be as "simple" as me accepting that, wrt r-ships, when I see the flags, I need to just bite the bullet and tell them, "I really like you, but this is a bad fit"? And move on. Sometimes, I think we make way more out of the process than it's worth.

Other times, I think maybe I'm way less compromising than most people, and I might need more boundaries in my relationships. But I don't know why I would.

[nowwhatz]

JRT --

Thanks for the feedback. I see a lot of similarities between our experiences.

I have seen therapists, and I've shared a lot of the same questions with them. I'm not in any way opposed to the process -- I've gone of my own volition, and stuck with regular sessions for sometimes over a year.

The end result is I still have the same questions. That and meditation keep leading me back to one potential and simple possibility: That I just don't know when enough is enough, and once I'm in a r-ship, I worry too much about the other person's feelings to the sacrifice of my own "big picture" needs -- like, what do I want out of this lifetime, and who do I want to experience it with?

I don't know. I do tend to abstract emotional things when I'm trying to process them. Seems to be an effective way of figuring out what's going on inside. And I also think I diminish the importance of things like what I said above -- because it's so simple, if that's it, isn't it? And, if it's that simple, it almost immediately stops feeling like a big deal.

Obviously, I'm attracted to troubled women for some reason, and they're attracted to me for some reason. Is it unreasonable for me to start to think it may be as "simple" as me accepting that, wrt r-ships, when I see the flags, I need to just bite the bullet and tell them, "I really like you, but this is a bad fit"? And move on. Sometimes, I think we make way more out of the process than it's worth.

Other times, I think maybe I'm way less compromising than most people, and I might need more boundaries in my relationships. But I don't know why I would.

Eyvindr,

Do you think you are at a point where recycling will not happen again ?

[myself]

I'm attracted to troubled women for some reason, and they're attracted to me for some reason.

If you're seeing yourself as troubled/ damaged/ still working things out, that could be why you're seeking/ finding/ attracting the same. Because you'd feel like you relate. The deeper similarities would feel familiar.

[Deeno02]

I'm attracted to troubled women for some reason, and they're attracted to me for some reason.

If you're seeing yourself as troubled/ damaged/ still working things out, that could be why you're seeking/ finding/ attracting the same. Because you'd feel like you relate. The deeper similarities would feel familiar.

Kind of like a trauma bond songbook? Think that may have played out in my r/s

[janey62]

Today is day 1 of back to no contact. It makes me nervous to think of hearing from her. I still love her, even though I don't know who "her" is.

I don't want to accept this abuse,  but at the same time,  when she is texting me or in front of me,  she can play me like a fiddle.

Hey Xidiion,  Have you considered blocking her number?  I have had ten days of peace since I blocked my exbfwBPDs number.  He knows he can ring me on my landline but he won't because he can't face actually talking to me. 

My phone has a facility under each contact to block that contact! It felt really weird at first, and I kept compulsively looking at the phone to see if he had somehow managed to get past the block, but nothing.  Just silence... .

I think the reason we recycle is that we're so caught up in the pain and the drama, its like an addiction, and we so want to believe that they mean what they say and do - which they can't possibly do if you think about it, but we get caught up in their crazy world until the most insane things seem to make sense.  Cold turkey is painful but much much quicker than trying to negotiate with it/them, and now my head is clearing and I can see just how crazy it was to be accepting of what was happening. 

Janey

[drummerboy]

It took me a long time to realise that one of the main things I missed about my ex was the non stop drama. In a weird, car crash sort of way, they are fascinating to be around. There was always a crisis, much more interesting conversations than, shall we have beef or chicken for dinner tonight. I just loved the drama which is pretty sad I guess. Good thing I'm not a psychotherapist, I'd be totally addicted to that.

Today is day 1 of back to no contact. It makes me nervous to think of hearing from her. I still love her, even though I don't know who "her" is.

I don't want to accept this abuse,  but at the same time,  when she is texting me or in front of me,  she can play me like a fiddle.

Hey Xidiion,  Have you considered blocking her number?  I have had ten days of peace since I blocked my exbfwBPDs number.  He knows he can ring me on my landline but he won't because he can't face actually talking to me. 

My phone has a facility under each contact to block that contact! It felt really weird at first, and I kept compulsively looking at the phone to see if he had somehow managed to get past the block, but nothing.  Just silence... .

I think the reason we recycle is that we're so caught up in the pain and the drama, its like an addiction, and we so want to believe that they mean what they say and do - which they can't possibly do if you think about it, but we get caught up in their crazy world until the most insane things seem to make sense.  Cold turkey is painful but much much quicker than trying to negotiate with it/them, and now my head is clearing and I can see just how crazy it was to be accepting of what was happening. 

Janey

[janey62]

JRT --


Obviously, I'm attracted to troubled women for some reason, and they're attracted to me for some reason. Is it unreasonable for me to start to think it may be as "simple" as me accepting that, wrt r-ships, when I see the flags, I need to just bite the bullet and tell them, "I really like you, but this is a bad fit"? And move on. Sometimes, I think we make way more out of the process than it's worth.

Other times, I think maybe I'm way less compromising than most people, and I might need more boundaries in my relationships. But I don't know why I would.

I've spent a lot of time thinking about why too.  I am attracted to troubled men, and if I look back I realise that it was because it felt normal for me and because they were different from other people, special, interesting, exciting.

In short it was my troubled relationship with my mother and abandoning relationship with my father all rolled into one nice big package.  I was and have been repeating those troubled relationships from my childhood over and over and I got so used to it that even when the abuse I was suffering became totally intolerable and unacceptable I still thought it was normal.  

The clue for me is just how uninteresting I found men who were nice and safe and healthy.  I only got hooked on the messed up ones... .

When I see the flags I say to myself unconsciously, 'ok, there are the flags, so I must be on the right track, situation normal'.  

[janey62]

Yep drummerboy, the drama is pretty intoxicating... .even more so if you grew up on it. 

[fromheeltoheal]

It was a little different for me: I got addicted to the chaos because it felt fully alive.  Like when you're in a crisis situation and you're moving through it, reacting, handling it, very intense but still doing what you have to do, time seems to slow down and it's invigorating, and also exhausting, and it isn't until after it's over that we reflect back and go 'holy sht, that was intense!'  The chaos and the unpredictable mood swings had me in that state constantly, and now although the emotional energy is gone, the memories are very vivid and bright, they left a lasting imprint.  That was part of it, the other part was when we're caught up in someone else's drama, we don't have the time, energy or focus to deal with our own stuff, so it's a handy way to avoid, until of course the crafty borderline does everything possible to devalue us.

So yeah, it was a rush, completely unsustainable, but a rush.  When we're stretching in our lives unforeseen rushes and chaos show up on their own once in a while, and I think I'll focus on stability and sustainability today, while stretching, and take life as it comes.

[eyvindr]

nowwhatz --

Yes, I am done this time. This is the third break-up, and it's been nearly 5 months since I've had any contact with her. A few weeks in I blocked every means of contact that I could -- she found ways around most of them, and despite not receiving any more than a "block" response to a few texts, she continued to txt, email and attempt to reach my by phone. It's been no less than stunning to witness how much energy one person can put into nothing but sheer vitriol -- every text and email an accusation or some crude, degrading comment, lengthy hateful voicemails -- it was horrible, and nearly verbatim what she did the prior two times we broke up and went no contact. I finally had to have a police officer contact her and warn her that, if she didn't stop immediately, including emailing and messaging my friends and family, she would be charged with harassment. Same as the last time she received a warning, she stopped directly contacting me, but continued her "anonymous" online screed. Which, sadly, is her right.

This is why I sometimes balm at the talk about enforcing boundaries with pwBPD -- not that it's a bad idea, but what other course besides strict permanent NC is there if the boundaries are clear but still blatantly ignored? I even tried to discuss this behavior with her during our together times -- that her behaviors resulted in the complete opposite of what she claimed she wanted. She has said to me and posted to others the most horrible, insulting and false things about me -- and, about one day in very twenty, she'll post something about "All a certain person has to do is reconcile, and all of the social media will come down. All you have to do is contact me." It's nothing less than emotional terrorism and blackmail, and yet her disturbed reasoning seems to think it's completely rational. 

And even though I went through this both times before, I still tried to make things work. I should have see the light, but I didn't. This time, finally, it's too bright for me to reason away, thank goodness. There hasn't been a single person in my life who has even suggested anything other than staying as far away from her as possible -- which they advised before, and I didn't listen. This time, I'm listening to my gut, and to the people who have known me far longer than my ex. If she needs to hate me, well, it hurts, but so be it.

janey -- I'm recognizing the same attraction to dysfunction in myself, but in my case I'm puzzled because I didn't experience it growing up. Is it possible that I was fine, until I met my ex-wife (my first pwBPD), and that experience did such a number on me that I still haven't recovered?