exBPDgf broke NC after 2 months

[VIDEO: "What is parental alienation?"]

Some of you may have read my previous posts about my exBPDgf of five years.  In short:

She is a "waif" BPDer who rarely lashed out in anger.  Think more Eeyore and Debbie Downer than Jekyll/Hyde.  Two different therapists I have talked to (for myself) have told me she shows strong BPD characteristics.  We went through seven breakups (all by her) and six recycles.  The last three breakups (including the current one) involved her finding a replacement.  Each of these last three breakups were about how we couldn't be together - not anything I did, no anger, immense sadness.  She claims she wants to move away and because I have a 10-year-old daughter, I "can't" move with her (not necessarily true but that's what she projects).  It's her push-away excuse.

Our last recycle was in October, after I went NC and she promptly slept with a replacement.  She contacted me immediately afterward, full of guilt.  She cried on her couch as she told me she wanted to be with me forever, move away, get married, have children.  I took her back.  She said ( ) "I have trouble seeing men platonically."

This last breakup came after an amazing vacation to New York.  Same warning signs - acting distant, picking fights.  I wasn't tolerant of her behavior, and arguments ensued, triggering her abandonment fear.  Two weeks after the breakup (and NC) I heard through mutual friends she was dating a co-worker she had previously vigorously devalued to me.  Photos all over Facebook about how happy she was (mutual friends told me).  I was crushed, and sent her a single text that told her I was hurt and betrayed by her seeing him after promising me she wasn't attracted to him.  She did not respond.  Other than that single text, there has been NC for over two months.

Until yesterday.

She and I are not Facebook friends, but two days ago, the new boyfriend commented on a photo of she and I that she still has on her Facebook.  I'm tagged in the photo, so I got a notification - that the new boyfriend had commented.  Talk about a trigger.  It was some dumb, passive aggressive comment from him ("Ahhh, memories!" but it made me mad.  And it shows what a nincompoop she is dating.

On MY end, I have been seeing someone else for about three weeks, and it is going well.  So all of this throws an incredible wrench in my new relationship.  I don't need the reminders.

Then... . my ex messaged me on Facebook yesterday.  She apologized for Mr. Replacement's comment.  She said he was mad the photo was still on her Facebook, and he commented to get her to take it down - rather than, you know, just asking her to.  She said it angered her and she yelled at him about it.  And again apologized.  

Then she tried to make conversation.

I kept my responses short, and let her know that I am seeing someone.  When I said THAT, she abruptly changed her tone.  She then told me she's planning to move away as soon as possible, and of course Mr. Replacement (who has been with her a month) will be moving with her.  Quick, hostile comments.  Asking me about my new girlfriend - how long have we been dating, passive aggressive "I'm happy for you" comments.  I tell her that she has hurt me deeply, and then I had to go into a meeting and stopped responding to her.

What is below is about 30 individual messages she sent me while I was in that meeting, condensed into easier to read paragraph form.  She told me she kept crying in the bathroom at work, and had to leave early:




Part of me was harsh on (Replacement) when I talked about him (to you) because I didn't want you to be worried.  I wasn't lying, but I knew he was more than his "persona" he puts on.  So just FYI, I'm not dating some moron. Not that it matters at all.  What I've told you about him is not who he actually is deep down. Again, not that I have to explain myself or justify it, but I've misrepresented him.  He was a good outlet for me to rant and vent about my problems. Our problems. A friend, truly.  It just organically turned into something more.

Hearing about you dating someone - even though I'm happy about it deep down - is still devastating. It's like I can't just fully move on. I have so many emotions attached to you. It (bleeping) sucks, quite frankly.

Because it's not logical emotions. When I use my brain, I know our romantic relationship is over and should be over. But it's the raw, pure emotions. The ones I can't stop. The ones that just take me the (bleep) over and make me cry at work.

I know I SHOULD feel x way. But I'm just trying to be honest with you and tell you how I actually feel.  It's (bleeped) up.  I've had to stop myself about 20 times from contacting you.  Because I knew this would happen.  I (bleeping) knew it.  Just seeing your name on Facebook makes me want to cry.  I've thought about deleting it.

How I feel right now and how I've felt is not healthy or correct. This is why I can't talk to you. You have such an effect on me. It doesn't matter that I'm dating someone - that I've technically moved on. You have a huge influence on my feelings.  So you wonder why I stopped talking to you? Why I didn't respond to your emails, your texts? I literally couldn't. When you texted me saying you felt betrayed and saddened, it broke my (expletive) heart.

I can't be so emotionally invested in you. I can't start crying every time I think about something we've shared or experienced together.  All I want is to call you and hear your voice.  I can't set boundaries with you. It doesn't work.  We cannot talk because I can't get over "us" otherwise.  I know you're thinking, why the hell is she so affected by this when she's the one who did it?  But I just am.  I feel so much comfort and normalcy with you. Not having that anymore is very sad for me.  I am so sorry I'm even saying this stuff to you. It's incredibly inappropriate.

Time away from you makes me numb. My emotions, while still there, are put on the back burner. The goal is for that to eventually go away. But when I think about you - talk to you, see you on Facebook, whatever - it is a gigantic step backwards.

The emotions just come right back up like they never went away. All of the "healing" I'd done up to that point is worthless, like it didn't happen.  I often have to actively NOT think about you. When I find myself thinking, I'll tell myself to stop. I'll quickly try to find something to get my attention so I don't dwell on you.

This is all making me sound very pathetic so you know I'm being honest.  Especially now that you're dating someone else.  I literally haven't gotten on Facebook on my computer (when the comments just show up) in fear that I would read something you said on someone’s post.  It's hard for me to see your (expletive) NAME.  It's pathetic.



I eventually responded, and went the BPD validation route and told her I understood.  I wasn't sucked back in - I have a new girlfriend that I truly adore and love spending time with.  But it's evident that I could have another recycle with my ex if I wanted to.  But I don't want to, which is why I'm on the Leaving board now.

My biggest struggle was that I thought she didn't care about me anymore.  That question was obviously answered yesterday.  So Leaving board friends, they ARE thinking about you, even if they don't say it.

I don't plan to actively engage my ex any longer.  This conversation helped me.  I didn't ask once where Mr. Replacement was as she spewed all of this to me, but obviously fight + about me + abandonment fear led to her contacting me.  I love her very much, but God, I'm glad I'm not dating her anymore.

Anyone want to give feedback on what she said, within the BPD realm?  I find it fascinating how her brain works.  How she can rationalize her behavior.  In typical fashion, she acknowledged her behavior repeatedly, apologized repeatedly, but couldn't tell me HOW she WOULDN'T keep doing it.  She said "I don't know what I want" a half dozen times.  Always stops short of self evaluation.

[4Years5Months]

Some of you may have read my previous posts about my exBPDgf of five years.  In short:

She is a "waif" BPDer who rarely lashed out in anger.  Think more Eeyore and Debbie Downer than Jekyll/Hyde.  Two different therapists I have talked to (for myself) have told me she shows strong BPD characteristics.  We went through seven breakups (all by her) and six recycles.  The last three breakups (including the current one) involved her finding a replacement.  Each of these last three breakups were about how we couldn't be together - not anything I did, no anger, immense sadness.  She claims she wants to move away and because I have a 10-year-old daughter, I "can't" move with her (not necessarily true but that's what she projects).  It's her push-away excuse.

Our last recycle was in October, after I went NC and she promptly slept with a replacement.  She contacted me immediately afterward, full of guilt.  She cried on her couch as she told me she wanted to be with me forever, move away, get married, have children.  I took her back.  She said ( ) "I have trouble seeing men platonically."

This last breakup came after an amazing vacation to New York.  Same warning signs - acting distant, picking fights.  I wasn't tolerant of her behavior, and arguments ensued, triggering her abandonment fear.  Two weeks after the breakup (and NC) I heard through mutual friends she was dating a co-worker she had previously vigorously devalued to me.  Photos all over Facebook about how happy she was (mutual friends told me).  I was crushed, and sent her a single text that told her I was hurt and betrayed by her seeing him after promising me she wasn't attracted to him.  She did not respond.  Other than that single text, there has been NC for over two months.

Until yesterday.

She and I are not Facebook friends, but two days ago, the new boyfriend commented on a photo of she and I that she still has on her Facebook.  I'm tagged in the photo, so I got a notification - that the new boyfriend had commented.  Talk about a trigger.  It was some dumb, passive aggressive comment from him ("Ahhh, memories!" but it made me mad.  And it shows what a nincompoop she is dating.

On MY end, I have been seeing someone else for about three weeks, and it is going well.  So all of this throws an incredible wrench in my new relationship.  I don't need the reminders.

Then... . my ex messaged me on Facebook yesterday.  She apologized for Mr. Replacement's comment.  She said he was mad the photo was still on her Facebook, and he commented to get her to take it down - rather than, you know, just asking her to.  She said it angered her and she yelled at him about it.  And again apologized.  

Then she tried to make conversation.

I kept my responses short, and let her know that I am seeing someone.  When I said THAT, she abruptly changed her tone.  She then told me she's planning to move away as soon as possible, and of course Mr. Replacement (who has been with her a month) will be moving with her.  Quick, hostile comments.  Asking me about my new girlfriend - how long have we been dating, passive aggressive "I'm happy for you" comments.  I tell her that she has hurt me deeply, and then I had to go into a meeting and stopped responding to her.

What is below is about 30 individual messages she sent me while I was in that meeting, condensed into easier to read paragraph form.  She told me she kept crying in the bathroom at work, and had to leave early:




Part of me was harsh on (Replacement) when I talked about him (to you) because I didn't want you to be worried.  I wasn't lying, but I knew he was more than his "persona" he puts on.  So just FYI, I'm not dating some moron. Not that it matters at all.  What I've told you about him is not who he actually is deep down. Again, not that I have to explain myself or justify it, but I've misrepresented him.  He was a good outlet for me to rant and vent about my problems. Our problems. A friend, truly.  It just organically turned into something more.

Hearing about you dating someone - even though I'm happy about it deep down - is still devastating. It's like I can't just fully move on. I have so many emotions attached to you. It (bleeping) sucks, quite frankly.

Because it's not logical emotions. When I use my brain, I know our romantic relationship is over and should be over. But it's the raw, pure emotions. The ones I can't stop. The ones that just take me the (bleep) over and make me cry at work.

I know I SHOULD feel x way. But I'm just trying to be honest with you and tell you how I actually feel.  It's (bleeped) up.  I've had to stop myself about 20 times from contacting you.  Because I knew this would happen.  I (bleeping) knew it.  Just seeing your name on Facebook makes me want to cry.  I've thought about deleting it.

How I feel right now and how I've felt is not healthy or correct. This is why I can't talk to you. You have such an effect on me. It doesn't matter that I'm dating someone - that I've technically moved on. You have a huge influence on my feelings.  So you wonder why I stopped talking to you? Why I didn't respond to your emails, your texts? I literally couldn't. When you texted me saying you felt betrayed and saddened, it broke my (expletive) heart.

I can't be so emotionally invested in you. I can't start crying every time I think about something we've shared or experienced together.  All I want is to call you and hear your voice.  I can't set boundaries with you. It doesn't work.  We cannot talk because I can't get over "us" otherwise.  I know you're thinking, why the hell is she so affected by this when she's the one who did it?  But I just am.  I feel so much comfort and normalcy with you. Not having that anymore is very sad for me.  I am so sorry I'm even saying this stuff to you. It's incredibly inappropriate.

Time away from you makes me numb. My emotions, while still there, are put on the back burner. The goal is for that to eventually go away. But when I think about you - talk to you, see you on Facebook, whatever - it is a gigantic step backwards.

The emotions just come right back up like they never went away. All of the "healing" I'd done up to that point is worthless, like it didn't happen.  I often have to actively NOT think about you. When I find myself thinking, I'll tell myself to stop. I'll quickly try to find something to get my attention so I don't dwell on you.

This is all making me sound very pathetic so you know I'm being honest.  Especially now that you're dating someone else.  I literally haven't gotten on Facebook on my computer (when the comments just show up) in fear that I would read something you said on someone’s post.  It's hard for me to see your (expletive) NAME.  It's pathetic.



I eventually responded, and went the BPD validation route and told her I understood.  I wasn't sucked back in - I have a new girlfriend that I truly adore and love spending time with.  But it's evident that I could have another recycle with my ex if I wanted to.  But I don't want to, which is why I'm on the Leaving board now.

My biggest struggle was that I thought she didn't care about me anymore.  That question was obviously answered yesterday.  So Leaving board friends, they ARE thinking about you, even if they don't say it.

I don't plan to actively engage my ex any longer.  This conversation helped me.  I didn't ask once where Mr. Replacement was as she spewed all of this to me, but obviously fight + about me + abandonment fear led to her contacting me.  I love her very much, but God, I'm glad I'm not dating her anymore.

Anyone want to give feedback on what she said, within the BPD realm?  I find it fascinating how her brain works.  How she can rationalize her behavior.  In typical fashion, she acknowledged her behavior repeatedly, apologized repeatedly, but couldn't tell me HOW she WOULDN'T keep doing it.  She said "I don't know what I want" a half dozen times.  Always stops short of self evaluation.

[cosmonaut]

Your ex has some deep insight into herself, 4Years.  I'm actually quite impressed with how in touch she is with herself about her disorder (even if she doesn't realize it).  I think it's instructive for all of us here.  Thank you for sharing.  It helps to cement my belief that our exes care about us, perhaps even significantly, but their inability to emotionally regulate makes it impossible for them to interact with us due to the trigger we have become.

Anyway, really good post.  I'm glad that these messages helped you.  I think they've helped me too.  Thanks for it.   

[4Years5Months]

She has these incredible moments of clarity at times.  But when the engulfment/abandonment takes over, it all goes out the window.  She said similar things last October when we recycled for the last time.  But here we are now, back in the same spot, her with a quick replacement she developed feelings for at work because he simply talked to her.

I feel incredibly sad for what she struggles with.  She told me probably 50 times over that conversation that I should hate her and she doesn't deserve to talk to me.  She KNOWS she has these issues, but she can't WORK on them.  And that's why we cannot be together. 

[tholian]

Dear 4Years5Months,

I remember you commenting on my post wondering if your ex will ever contact you. Based on your reply, I'm glad she finally did. You got your validation and some extend of closure/peace.  Also, I'm happy that her contacting you didn't break you, only made you stronger and resolute on your decision. You now know better and have someone new in your life. Go forth and know better days are ahead. 

Take care and have a wonderful day.

[LimboFL]

Thank you very much for sharing that 4 years. I believe that it gives many of us something to chew on because it is very likely that those of us who were with high functioning and self aware BPD's would receive similar confessions from our ex's. This sounds very much like the kind of thing my ex would have said, with complete and total reason.

What is most telling though, about her thoughts, is that everything that is going on in her heart and mind would lead one to question why on earth would she want to be without you. The logical solution for a normal person would be to be with the person for whom she feels such longing and love, not to be as far away as possible. It is also telling that in her statement, and maybe I missed it, she offers no reason as to why she can't be with you (we know what the reasons are, but she can't express them). It's just that she can't.

Reading her statement, while I am smart enough not to pretend this is how my ex feels but I suspect so, is both validating (living vicariously through you) and heart breaking. Right there in her statement (and her expressions of emotions which my ex offered me often) lie the reasons why we stayed and fell in love with our partners. Her emotions were not born of idealization or love bombing but rather true and heartfelt. Right there in her statement is why many of us continue to suffer greatly in the detachment process, even if our minds know that we have been spared even more pain.

It is truly heartbreaking. Thank you again for sharing. 

[ReclaimingMyLife]

I had a similar hit, LimboFL.  Reading 4Years text messages made me appreciate why many of us stayed as long as we did.  4Years ex's messages felt articulate, heartfelt and believable (nevermind that sending 30 of them in a short period of time).  Even knowing what I know, the exemplify and help understand how we can get sucked back in to the recycle.  

I am left with some compassion for all of us, self included, that these were genuinely confusing relationships.  Instead of just thinking I was a complete idiot dating a maniac.  The problem, of course, as we all know is that the maniacal behavior was there too.  But reading these I can see why many of us hung on as long as we did.  My UxBPDbf said the very things I had dreamed to hear.  No wonder it was confusing.  

That said, REALITY now rules my roost... . and those wonderful, magical words were, unfortunately, just words.  

[ReclaimingMyLife]

Thanks for sharing, 4Years.  That was really helpful! 

[LimboFL]

It's funny, reclaiming because I was going to add a second post that expanded on why we fell in love with them but also "why we put up with so much strife and completely unacceptable behavior". My ex apologized for some of her behaviors and did not for other behaviors. When she apologized it was heartfelt and tender. She truly felt sorry for what she had done to me (i.e. not faked). Knowing what I knew, it was impossible for me not to accept the apology and more so even comfort her, knowing that she often couldn't control her mind.

I believe that, in most cases, we went into these relationships not knowing what we were looking at and experiencing. In addition, there is no question that I wrote episodes off with the belief that they were just oddities that would pass, that it was normal to expect someone who had been on such a tough journey to have some symptoms. As I have said countless times, I felt fairly uncomfortable during the very brief idealization stage.

So, we write off the oddities in the beginning and then we fall in love with the wounded bird. At that point, we are slowly learning but not educated enough to completely understand. So we stay. By the time we truly understand, we are now completely in love and deciding to run simply isn't an option. We believe that we can endure and adjust our own behavior to try to help.

In the end, they leave or they break unacceptable boundaries and we are left shocked.

The more I process 4 years post, the more it is giving me a little extra peace. The texts from his ex dispels the notion that they are all heartless and that they don't care. As has been repeated and I have said it many times, these are human beings, with different experiences, so it would be unwise to assume that all of our ex's feel this way but as has been proven so often by the shared experiences that surprise us all with their commonality, if the relationship had it's moments of purity and kindness, where love was clearly present on both sides, then I believe it is fair for many of us to believe that our ex's feel, to some degree, the same way that 4 years does.

It brings a certain comfort, because probably the hardest part of the detachment is wondering if we meant anything to them or the possibility that they have just moved on without a thought about what they played a large role in destroying.

All very difficult stuff. I am four months out and still so damn emotional about it all. My brain knows what is right but my heart is dragging it's feet to catch up.

[JRT]

Hey, thanks a bunch for sharing that. I have read many accounts but they are always from the perspective of a non (I wish that there were more postings such as this one from their perspective). It was very insightful to hear what the pwBPD disorder is dealing with on the other end. Many people speculate that they don't give the discarded SO any more thought that a empty soda can; I have found this hard to believe even if they have a replacement.

Her thoughts really demonstrate to what extent you meant to her; she had IMMENSE feelings and fondness for you and the things that are subtle (and not so subtle) reminders of you to her trigger emotions that she simply doesn't know how to deal with and cause her pain (that pain was so extreme for my exBPD fiance, that when I tired to call her at xmas, she went to the cops - I didn't even say anything more than 'its JRT'!). From this example, its almost easy to see why a pwBPD does what they do. I have not spoken with mine in well over 6 months; I know little except that she is not doing well post b/u and nc but this was by HER doing like yours. As I suspect about my ex and looks apparent with yours, its almost as if this behavior happens against their own will almost as a force of habit.

I am really sorry that this happened to you but on the other hand it looks like you are one of the 'lucky' ones among us as you have achieved a level of closure that almost all of us will never have.  

[Invictus01]

You know dude... . Don't know if I should be impressed by her honesty or pissed off by what was said... . because I don't know if it was honesty or an attempt to reel you back in (especially since she knows you are seeing somebody else) I really don't know how I'd feel if I got something like this (although it has bits and pieces of what I have heard from mine). I know the whole theory behind BPD and what makes them run and why but to wrap your brain around the "I love you so much that I'd rather be with some other dude" thing... . that crap is just so out there. But I guess that's why PD is a mental illness.

[apollotech]

"... . everything that is going on in her heart and mind would lead one to question why on earth would she want to be without you. The logical solution for a normal person would be to be with the person for whom she feels such longing and love, not to be as far away as possible."

4Years,

Thank you for the thread. I am glad that you got at least some closure out of the communication with your exSO. Although her statements are very heartfelt and emotional, clearly her BPD is still at the helm. It is a horribly cruel disorder for all involved as a pwBPD cannot simply have who/what they most desire (Limbo summed it up nicely.).

After reading your initial post I realized that although I sound fairly well and okay on these boards, it's a front, I am not well nor okay. In fact, if my reasoning self ever slips I will most definitely find myself back in a relationship with my BPDexgf. That is what my emotional self continuously longs for. It is the child that must touch the hot stove. Only through knowing that the outcome of said reunion would ultimately end in failure and heartache for all involved, I am able to reign in my emotional self. It is a sad realization and existence, easily paralleled with what your exSO recognized?/described as her plight.

[LimboFL]

Apollo, you and I are in very much the same boat. I am fighting tooth and nail to be "normal" to act like everything is ok, but it just isn't. I am able to function, work, get on with it but, as you so astutely put it, my emotional self is still reeling. The self that reasons has gone through every single red flag, it has even expressed relief that I am no longer embroiled in emotional cyclone.

My son is now back living with me part time. I mean I could go on and on about the intellectual and emotional positives that should have me jumping for joy, but I am not. My emotional self refuses to get in lock step. Just this morning after waking up and falling back asleep, I had some negative flashbacks, of when she was insulting or demeaning, it was jarring. I remember the mocking and the emasculation and yet here I am still so emotional.

I look forward to the day that this all goes away.

[myself]

When it was about you and your feelings = Silence.

Her and her feelings = She goes on and on about it.

(Even though it's so bad for her to have you in her life.)

Momentary 'confessions' that aren't leading to healthier actions?

I had similar messages from my ex. Almost word for word in places.

There was one last recycle, then The End, because the disorder remained.

Like yours, mine wasn't sorry for how her actions affected me, or the r/s.

Only that they were making her look worse (while continuing to do so).

Much of this is out of their control. The rest is what they choose.

[ReclaimingMyLife]

Thanks for the great thread, 4Years.  Apollotech and Limbo, thanks for your honesty and sorry your hearts are still reeling.  I am reeling a lot less this week thanks to an unexpected occurrence.

From day one, I began imaging all the wonderful things that would happen in the future.  Moving in  together, hanging out, great conversation, laughing, insane sex, etc.  I loved hanging out with him, laughing.  The future was going to be full of that. 

But this week, for the first time ever, I read another person's painful story and imagined my future self actually living with him.  His daily up and downs.  What that would have really been like. I closed my eyes.  Really saw that future.  Felt that future.  I had never done that before because somehow, even in the moments of hell, the fantasy future was still in charge.  The fantasy future made those (constant) moments of hell the exception to the rule.  It was a great fantasy.   

But that was not what I had.  Only about 30% of the time.  The rest was a constant struggle.  So there was something horrifyingly comforting about seeing my imaginary REAL future.  Not the imaginary fantasy future.  The real one:  him belittling me... . telling me to go f*&^% myself... . creating distance between me and my kids... . not celebrating (or even acknowledging) my accomplishments ... . distance between friends and family... . his gazillion crises one after the next... . feeling like I was crazy and had lost myself.   

The imaginary real future got really real for me this week.  I cannot imagine living my life with the REAL him, the REAL r/s.  That fantasy future would have been great.  The real one, no way, absolutely no flipping way. The fantasy future (and for that matter the fantasy past) is what kept my emotional self hooked.  Glad to have taken a different looksie!   

[LimboFL]

Reclaiming, you are absolutely right about the fantasy vs. the reality. I am actually quite angry at myself for even being this distraught. I bloody know exactly what life would have been like with her. It would have been a succession of me feeling consistently insecure about the next orbiter or man would suddenly become the little fantasy of the month (she toyed only but it was enough), her making me feel guilty for not going out when she would turn down every suggestion I had that we go to the beach or whatever, her drunken emasculations and periodic rages out of nowhere. I could go on and on and on.

It is unbelievable that I still feel this level of emotion, but as was pointed out, it is that 30%, where we somehow felt justified in staying, it was also that desire to want to be different and to hold out and be there for them after knowing that they had been tossed away so often before.

There is simply no doubt that we got away from what would only have worsened. I recognize it but am still not able to realize how fortunate I am and how life should only get better from here on out. It is without a doubt the biggest mind screw that I have even been through and I am 47 and have been through many.

There will come a point and it will be soon where I say enough is enough. I am close but just not there yet and maybe, just maybe the very strong emotions that I have felt this week are the final release before walking away.

I am looking forward to being where you are. My brain is there but, as mentioned, the heart is not there just yet. Why? Beats me!

[ReclaimingMyLife]

Yes,  Limbo,  I feel certain you will.   Feelings follow behavior.   I have to remind myself of this often.   Abt r/s and esp abt the b/u but also abt many other things in life too.   If you/we stay NC for long enough our feelings eventually catch up to our behavior.

Thanks for this important thread,  4Years!

[apollotech]

Limbo,

I am sorry that you find yourself in my boat, but I always welcome good company. We are finally pulling with the tide brother; as such, our rowing will get easier. We will reach our destination, heart and all!


ReclaimingMyLife,

I actually had your future life evaluation thrust upon me in a moment of clarity one night. That pristine assessment is what caused me to terminate my relationship. As you saw with yours, I too saw no future with mine. I am here! I am free! My future is bright! My heart just hasn't reveled in those facts yet... . but it will!

[cosmonaut]

I am looking forward to being where you are. My brain is there but, as mentioned, the heart is not there just yet. Why? Beats me!

I'm right there with you Limbo.  If you are like me, and I think you are, the answer is very simple: we love them.  We just love them.  As messed up and confused and disordered as they are.  We were able to see the best in them, and there was a lot to see there.  We love them.  Just the way they are.  Simply because they are themselves.

I meant it when I told my ex that I would always love her no matter what.  That nothing could ever change my love for her.  Those weren't just words.  I meant them with total sincerity, and now that things are over I find that I still mean it.  I love her.  I just do.  And whether we are together or not doesn't really change that one bit.

I think I've reached the point where I'm ok with that.  Sometimes when you love someone you have to let them go and wish them the fondest of farewells.  But that doesn't mean that you stop loving them.

[valet]

Their personal insights are kind of amazing sometimes, eh?

I remember a few months before my uBPDex broke up with me we were lying in bed talking and she just kinda started sobbing, saying that she felt that she had made it impossible for me to communicate my true fears and anxieties with her. At the time, I reassured her that communication takes two, but I just remember thinking the whole time that she was right, and I had been thinking the same thing for a while. She just kept going on about crying about how she couldn't believe that I hadn't left her because she had been treating me so poorly.

They do love us, they just don't know how to make it work emotionally for themselves when they try to fully engage and make the commitment to stick around for a while. It's sad, and we should have a lot of sympathy for them. That said, we can never go back.

[4Years5Months]

I am truly overwhelmed by reading that my post has helped some of you rationalize how a BPDer feels.  I realize these moments of clarity are rare, and rarely documented, and I’m glad I'm able to share them with you.  I am also thankful for the warm response and understanding.  I posted my story (complete with my ex’s quotes) on another (non-BPD centered) forum, and the response was shaming ME into being obsessed with her and being told to move on.  They didn’t see the point I was trying to make.  So thank all of YOU for getting it.

Your ex has some deep insight into herself, 4Years.  I'm actually quite impressed with how in touch she is with herself about her disorder (even if she doesn't realize it).

Those last six words are VERY important to my situation.  My ex apologized for her behavior THIRTEEN different times over the course of our conversation yesterday, and stated she had exhibited awful choices and treated me terribly countless more times as well.  But not once, not ONCE – did she talk about not exhibiting the same behavior in the future, either with me, or my replacement.  Not once did she state she would work on herself, seek help, etc.  In fact, she would frequently rationalize the behavior and justify it.  Again, taking some of her comments (this is over the course of the entire conversation:


I know I've done terrible things. I just feel the way I feel.  I'm just not an easy person to be with, because I want so much to change right now. I'm so not satisfied, and it makes it hard for people to date me.  I've always thought you should be with someone who was more stable financially, where they want to live, etc. Like... . just more satisfied with their lives.

Yep, if only she lived in another city, if only she had a better job, if only she had more money.  It’s “just the way (she) feels.”  These are her superficial excuses for her behavior.  Of course, we all know what is REALLY causing it, but her BPD mind is projecting the above.  It’s fascinating, and heartbreaking.  And it will always be there since she doesn’t have the strength to seek help, and that’s why I cannot be with her.

This is the most prophetic comment.  It came after I told her I was angry that she still went to go see a concert we had plans to see, after she broke up with me.  I ended up selling my tickets:


Things like that are a way for me to get out of my life, and stop feeling such sad emotions.  I really wanted to see the show because I knew it would bring me joy for a few hours.  Which is something I VERY rarely feel.


She then stated that she was surprised I didn’t end up going as well.  “I figured you would just take someone else.”  Not accepting responsibility for the damage she caused, leaving me holding $200 in tickets.  I can just still go with a different person, of course!  I replied that I didn’t want to take someone else, I wanted to take HER.  It shouldn’t come as a surprise that after saying that is when I went into my meeting, and her slew of comments in my original post happened.

What is most telling though, about her thoughts, is that everything that is going on in her heart and mind would lead one to question why on earth would she want to be without you. The logical solution for a normal person would be to be with the person for whom she feels such longing and love, not to be as far away as possible. It is also telling that in her statement, and maybe I missed it, she offers no reason as to why she can't be with you (we know what the reasons are, but she can't express them). It's just that she can't... . It is truly heartbreaking. Thank you again for sharing.

Heartbreaking is the appropriate term, for sure.  I mean, all of that anguish and inability to even see my NAME that she talked about in my OP?  Yeah Limbo, all that could go away if she would just stay with me.  But she can’t.  She CAN’T. 

Her reason for breaking up with me (as I’ve said) is that she wants to move away as soon as possible.  She has it all planned out in her head, but isn’t doing a thing to prepare for it.  Talk, talk talk.  She claims she is applying for jobs in New York “every week.”  Okay then, but what happens if you somehow actually GET one of those jobs?  Where will you live?  The cost of living is considerably higher there than where we live – she has no money saved.  She can’t be with me because I “can’t” move away with her due to my daughter, but she’s now dating the security guard at her job that makes $9.50 an hour (I asked her his salary and she told me).  I make considerably more than that, but HE is the one who is moving with her.  I stopped myself from saying all of that to her yesterday because it’s a waste of time at this point, but when I would say it in the past, she would get mad at me and say I wasn’t supporting her, and ultimately that I didn’t want to live with her nor move away.  Presenting a BPDer with logic is a toxic answer to them.

And for the record, I COULD move with her, but it would take significant planning on my part due to my daughter, who is okay with me moving away at some point – she’s actually excited to live in a different city someday.  But my ex never wanted to hear that from me.  She decided years ago that I couldn’t move away with her, and stuck to it as her push away excuse.  And now she’s with a guy who (because of his salary) makes it significantly HARDER for her to move away.  But that’s okay, she’s going to get a six-figure job in New York and be just fine, according to her.  Most of her jobs before her current marketing one were entry-level retail.  But I digress…... .

It was very insightful to hear what the pwBPD disorder is dealing with on the other end. Many people speculate that they don't give the discarded SO any more thought that a empty soda can; I have found this hard to believe even if they have a replacement.

Her thoughts really demonstrate to what extent you meant to her; she had IMMENSE feelings and fondness for you and the things that are subtle (and not so subtle) reminders of you to her trigger emotions that she simply doesn't know how to deal with and cause her pain... . As I suspect about my ex and looks apparent with yours, its almost as if this behavior happens against their own will almost as a force of habit.

When she said she had to stop herself from contacting me 20 times…... .yeah.  She went on and on about how she can’t talk to me because she needs to heal.  Heal from WHAT?  Our relationship was going great after the last recycle.  We went to New York and it was literally PERFECT.  We didn’t even ARGUE once, probably because she was in an alternative environment (see her comments about going to the concert above).  And then we came back, and she began to detach.  I’ve said this in other posts, but my current replacement is very recently divorced.  My ex told me that he and his ex-wife split up in December.  My ex started to detach from me in January, and was with him by March.  I don’t think that was a coincidence.  But I also don't think it was consciously planned.  Several of you have posted how each recycle weakens a BPDer’s attachment.  I definitely see that now, as she gravitated toward my replacement slowly, even after such a great trip with me.

Speaking of my replacement, my ex has also altered her entire outlook on relationships.  After I told her that she seems to have a lot in common with him, she abruptly went off on a tangent.  Again, several messages together:


We don't have anything in common, actually. It's funny.  We don't like the same things. He doesn't care about movies or music or anything I love.  But we agree on big things.  It's very different than what I've experienced before.  I think I've always relied on similar hobbies or interests to carry relationships - we both like x movies, etc.  That's such a shallow thing to base a relationship on. 

So I'm realizing now that I can have my things and my partner can have his, and they don't have to be similar.  I mean I dated stupid people (not you) because we both liked the same movies and tv shows.  What I have now is the polar opposite, but it's much better. Because it's totally different. We don't have movies to talk about. We just have to get down to what is really important. I'm not saying movies and such aren't important to me - they are - but I've just realized how often I form serious relationships because of interests.  Anyway I'm just changing how I look at relationships.  What I truly want from them.

(Replacement and I) are having a good time. I'm glad I have someone who wants to move away and will essentially go where I go.  I don't know why I just went into that philosophical rant on relationships.  A lot's on my mind I guess, and I've always felt comfortable talking to you.


I asked her what the “big things” were and what was “really important” and she could only say “just life stuff.”  STUFF.  She can go into an eloquently worded rant about relationships, but when I ask her to clarify, she can’t.  Projection.  And yeah, you can already see the reasons for her inevitable breakup with him, too.  He’s a Christian Republican (two things my ex is definitely NOT) and I didn’t bring that up in the conversation, but yeah, it’s amazing how her entire outlook on relationships has changed to justify being with a guy she (her admission as well as my declaration many times on this forum) has very little in common with.  But he’s the one for her, not me. 

By the way, they have been dating a month, but according to her, he’s ready to move away with her as soon as she finds a job in another city.  I think that’s bull coming from her mouth, but what does that say about HIM?   Sounds pretty weak if you ask me if he will just follow her like a puppy.  I guess I shouldn’t be surprised he made that passive aggressive comment on the photo of my ex and I that started all of this.

[4Years5Months]

Post length exceeded!  Here's the rest of my thoughts:

You know dude... . Don't know if I should be impressed by her honesty or pissed off by what was said... . because I don't know if it was honesty or an attempt to reel you back in (especially since she knows you are seeing somebody else) I really don't know how I'd feel if I got something like this (although it has bits and pieces of what I have heard from mine). I know the whole theory behind BPD and what makes them run and why but to wrap your brain around the "I love you so much that I'd rather be with some other dude" thing... . that crap is just so out there. But I guess that's why PD is a mental illness.

She was being lighthearted, jokey, and yes, a bit flirty with me, until she asked (I could tell she was going to) if I was seeing someone.  I told her yes, and she (seemed) happy for me, and then asked who she was.  It’s a girl I worked with YEARS ago, but still knew, mostly on Facebook.  I literally hadn’t seen her in eight years when I reconnected with her recently.  My ex’s tone changed considerably when I confirmed my new relationship with her.  She said – and I’m not kidding – that it bothered her ONLY because she is someone I previously knew.  Of course that's nonsense, in more ways than one.  She is dating a guy she has worked with for the last six months, but she is upset because I’m dating someone I worked with EIGHT YEARS ago.  Ah, the BPD brain.  Or maybe just the immature brain.

Anyway, my ex was definitely sowing the seeds for a future recycle before I told her I was seeing someone, I have zero doubt.  She is probably still hoping for one.  She was bashing my replacement for leaving that Facebook comment (“He was being a little (poop) and I’ve handled it accordingly, don’t worry.  He’s a tech retard and doesn’t know how Facebook works”) but as soon as I told her I was dating, she very abruptly turned the conversation to how she is moving away with my replacement.  I had to set my phone down several times and laugh.

Her answers became short, just a couple of words.  Then she started asking me questions about my new girl.  She continued to tell me she was happy for me, but I could tell she was irked.  And SHE BROKE UP WITH ME AND IS DATING SOMEONE ELSE!  Amazing, amazing stuff.

Like yours, mine wasn't sorry for how her actions affected me, or the r/s.

Only that they were making her look worse (while continuing to do so).

Much of this is out of their control. The rest is what they choose.

I liked your reply, myself, but just to clarify, my ex was absolutely ashamed at how her actions affected me, both in this conversation and in the past.  I have seen her sob hysterically, in person, as she tells me how sorry she is for hurting me.  It’s a moment of clarity where she can TELL me these things, but I have no doubt she always FEELS that way, even if she projects some BPD excuse for doing so.  I think most if not all of our BPD exes are the same way – so please don’t think that they don’t feel bad for how they treated you.

Their personal insights are kind of amazing sometimes, eh?

I remember a few months before my uBPDex broke up with me we were lying in bed talking and she just kinda started sobbing, saying that she felt that she had made it impossible for me to communicate my true fears and anxieties with her. At the time, I reassured her that communication takes two, but I just remember thinking the whole time that she was right, and I had been thinking the same thing for a while. She just kept going on about crying about how she couldn't believe that I hadn't left her because she had been treating me so poorly.

They do love us, they just don't know how to make it work emotionally for themselves when they try to fully engage and make the commitment to stick around for a while. It's sad, and we should have a lot of sympathy for them. That said, we can never go back.

Valet, as I said, my ex said probably a dozen times in our conversation that I should hate her and never want to speak to her again.  She also repeatedly told me how thankful she was that I don’t.  Her shame is immense.

I’ve told this story in another thread, but it bears repeating given your comment – last summer, my ex pushed me away (the sixth time).  We were broken up.  But she hadn’t attached to a replacement yet, so she still wanted to see me, yes, even after breaking up.  I went along with it when I shouldn’t have.  I stayed over one night, and we started to have sex.  It was going quite well, and we were connecting, both physically and intimately.  Suddenly she began to cry, hysterically.  Like, blubbering sobbing with large tears.  We obviously had to stop having sex.  For 10 minutes, we laid there together naked as I held her as she cried.  She said nothing.  When she calmed down, she didn’t want to talk about it.  We finished having sex (at her insistence) and about an hour later, she apologized for getting upset.  I asked her why she did, and she looked me straight in the eye with a legit confused look and said “I don’t know, I just had a moment” and laughed.

“I don’t know” – the favorite phrase of a BPDer.  Superficial.  An easy out from talking about REAL emotional feelings.  She used it countless times in our last conversation, too, despite being so open and full of clarity.  And that is why I will always keep my distance, despite loving her so, so much. 

Thanks for all of your replies thus far.  This forum (and this topic) has been a godsend for me.

[LimboFL]

I wasn't planning on responding but here, again, in glaring detail are freakishly exact behaviors. Yet again, I am reminded of why I continue to come to this board.

My ex, lived the exact same existence. Over the course of our entire four year relationship, she was planning her next move to another city. It would be better there, more money, nicer people, nicer environment, all her problems would be solved. In fact, it was one of those new cities, where she met the replacement. Once again, she had an epiphany about a new city, she would spend endless night researching and even looking at houses. This time I was more prepared and like you, was now warming to the idea of moving, as my son was now older etc. But I was convinced, on every occasion but particularly this one that the reality would not fit the dream. She had to go see this new city. I had just been let go from a tech start up that went belly up so couldn't use my funds on a flight of fancy trip. So off she went and I was supportive. Lots of I love you's and miss you's while she was there. Upon her return, as expected, reality set in. "It's kind of small, kind of dirty etc etc".

I had to endure at least 5 such flights of fancy (because I believed her every time). It completely eroded my belief in her love for me. Like you, I couldn't leave because I have a son here. Every time, she seemed not to be phased about leaving the man she supposedly loved. She would say things like "we can see each other in the summer" or "I will visit from time to time".

The most poignant is that this is exactly what is supposedly happening right now. Maybe she has moved, I have no idea. I found out her big plan during a brief recycle, about a month or so ago. Like yours, the plan is to move to a city that is so much more expensive and she works mostly on commission. Big pops can result in decent cash, but she has an apartment full of furniture, two dogs etc etc. She was so convinced of her move that she didn't get a roommate when I left (even though she would get very angry with me because when things go tight for me when two tech start ups I worked for in the same year went bust, I recoiled at having a roommate, that it would intrude too much in our lives etc. If we just split the bills we would be ok. I was made to feel like a jerk, yet when she was left to now cover all of the bills by herself, she refused to get a roommate?). Her relationship with the replacement is too new to ask for financial help and she can't just move in with him because he lives a thousand miles away and still lives with his "ex wife" and their kids. Even if she managed to snag the job, it would cost a small fortune to move furniture, dogs, herself (she doesn't have a car either but could get one), but then she would have to have enough money to put down on a new place, in a brand new very expensive city... .

She too was talking with the branch, of the company she works for, in this other city. She was also apparently in "talks" with companies elsewhere, in businesses for which she has no real experience but apparently they were "very interested". She spoke like it was a done deal. She is by no means a top performer but it is very possible that they might say sure, you can work in this branch, come on over. But then what? Slow season has been building in her business and even during the high season she has been struggling to sell. I spent so much time supporting her and making her feel like a star when things weren't going well. Even during the difficult financial moments for me, I still covered most of the expenses, including driving her back and forth to work every day. I could go on. How could she have the funds necessary to make such a big move?

My sincere hope is that she has managed it, because then I have my city back. It's more than large enough for me not to ever bump into her again, but it would help knowing that she had moved away.

I still love my exBPDgf very much and I miss the good her. I don't wish her ill and I want her to do ok, but I also want her to realize that despite the difficulties in my own life, that I was there for her at the worst of times and sacrificed a lot. She put me through so much torment numerous times where she made me feel like I was not quite up to snuff and hurt me deeply a number of times making me feel like leaving me would not affect her at all. I was made to feel guilty because I had to watch my money, because I was paying a good portion of our bills (later on she had enough to contribute more). She did buy my son a new bed and desk set for his room, that was really needed especially when that money could have gone to bills that desperately needed to be paid. I still thanked her. At times where I was clearly strained financially, I would vent when she would attack me, about how I felt that she needed to help more. She would always retaliate with "I bought your son a bed and desk set, how dare you". I would always respond how greatly I appreciated it but that that money should have been spent on bills.

I apologize, your story sent me down a path of needing to vent, because I went through the same torment that you did. I pulled my ex out of a very bad place, at the beginning. She had a bad drug habit, was kicked out of her apartment etc. I, facing my own difficulties, was there for her. The flights of fancy you described were exactly what I went through and it tore me apart, eroded my faith and trust, but I still stuck it out. It wasn't until the end where I finally realized that they were just flights of fancy, but by then the damage had been done to my heart.

I had to respond to your last post because yet again, after reading another persons post, I almost fall out of my seat in shock at the exactness of another persons experience to mine. WOW! Thank you, once again.

[Infared]

I identify with what LimboFL had to say:

"So, we write off the oddities in the beginning and then we fall in love with the wounded bird. At that point, we are slowly learning but not educated enough to completely understand. So we stay. By the time we truly understand, we are now completely in love and deciding to run simply isn't an option. We believe that we can endure and adjust our own behavior to try to help.

In the end, they leave or they break unacceptable boundaries and we are left shocked."

Wounded bird described mine... . even when she cheated and ran off, she was some kind of victim.

I just want to say that I identify with a lot of what was said here, except for the recycles. I just couldn't after the cheating. That is a totally unacceptable line for me. I truly doubt that mine cared much about me at all... . but in reading the posts here I could be wrong... . I wonder?... . but I'll never know and that will upset my soul forever.  (Not an exaggeration).

They do get under our skin in a very deep way!

[4Years5Months]

Limbo, thank you for sharing your story.  Your ex and mine sound remarkably similar in the sense that a change of some sort will solve all of their problems.  My ex has been "planning" to "move away" since the day I met her, but everything she has actually done has been superficial.  She can sit there on her computer and research NYC apartments, or NYC jobs (she only looks at "big" jobs with well known companies, not a particular career field) but in reality, she has two maxed out credit cards and a 2013 car she still owes two years worth of payments on.  Plus, her student loans will kick in this summer (she graduated in December, our vacation was a gift from her family).

It sounds like your ex does the same surface scraping in regards to her life, but doesn't actually dig deeper.  She's "in talks" with a company, or knows someone. 

My ex told me just before our last breakup that a representative from NYC came to her office to work on a project for a week.  She went out with the work group (which includes my ex) and they "really hit it off."  My ex then told me that this NYC girl told her that when she's ready to move, she can live with her in her village apartment.  My ex told me this story with amazing seriousness and clarity.  But yeah, this woman who was in her presence for a week is okay with this midwestern girl moving into her NYC apartment?  Sure.  In the moment, a BPDer can be incredibly convincing with an idea.  But when you actually look at it realistically and try to assemble how it could happen, it falls apart.  And definitely don't tell them how it falls apart, or you will be yelled at for not supporting them.  So when my ex told me she was moving ASAP with Mr. Security Guard, I was able to sit back and laugh after about 5 minutes.  No way.

Infared, my ex never directly cheated on me.  She would break up and then find a replacement.  In fact, she was so skilled at managing her disorder (that she doesn't even realize she has due to her subconscious protecting her emotions) that there has never been what I like to call "the moment" - when a significant other does something unforgivable or something that's enough of a giant red flag.  There was no drug habit.  No calling of the cops.  No self harm or suicide attempt.  As a whole, my ex is a giant, flashing red flag, but there has never been an "ah-ha!" moment where I can definitely say she's nuts.  She's quite skilled at making sure she doesn't do anything TOO terrible.  Thus, breaking up and THEN finding a replacement is what she does.  Is that basically the same actions as cheating?  Yes.  But it technically isn't, and she knows it.  "We were broken up before I started seeing him!"  - I've heard it many times.

My ex and I haven't spoke since that revealing conversation on Wednesday, but she is now "answering" comments I leave on mutual friends' Facebook posts.  None of these mutual friends are friends with my Replacement, so he won't know it's happening.  I'm not surprised, as a BPDer can have communication at a distance.

One thing she is doing that annoys me is that she is suddenly into Major League Baseball.  I've always been a fan, but she "hated sports" when we dated.  My replacement is a HUGE fan, and now my ex is as well.  During our conversation, she was suddenly wanting to talk about our local team, naming players by their first names.  Last night during a game, she commented on someone's status making a joke about the broadcasters, calling THEM by their first names.  You would think she has been watching for a decade.  In reality, she has been watching for two weeks.  Ah, mirroring.  Like every "obsession" she has had since I have known her, it will burn out fast, but man, it's annoying for her to suddenly be a MLB expert.

I'll end with this.  I asked my ex when my replacement broke up with his wife.  She told me November.  Funny, she didn't tell me at the time.  She began to detach after we returned from NYC in December, and was with him by March.  One more snippet from our conversation, after I told her it was interesting how she never told me he broke up with his wife.  My replies are in bold:

I found out more as we became close friends. They hadn't slept together in a year, they were in separate bedrooms. 

No wonder you started treating me like (expletive) after NYC. 

Hey.  You're allowed to feel angry but that's not why.  He was a good outlet for me to rant and vent about my problems. Our problems. A friend, truly.  It just organically turned into something more.

I know you are saying that.  But that's not what happened.  I suspected as much.

You will think what you want to think.  But I'm not lying.

I wasn't surprised.  You talked about him endlessly.

As a friend at work!  Nothing more.

Funny how this has happened twice in the same year. (I was replaced last summer for a week, too)

(Replacement guy from last summer) was so insignificant.  He was a distraction from you. That's all he was.

Again (her name), I love you very much, but I am glad we aren't dating anymore.

You don't have to keep saying that. I'm aware.  I know I've done terrible things. I just feel the way I feel.  I've apologized. You don't have to truly forgive me, but just know that I mean it.

It's amazing how you explain away such horrific behavior toward me because, you know, that's how you feel.  Is that what you'll tell (Current Replacement) when you break up with him?  I love you.  But everything you promised me in October (when she promised we would get married and move away) was a mirage.

(She then told me she was crying and very upset)

I know how you feel and I know how cruel I was.  I've felt a lot of guilt and regret and sadness over everything.

I know you KNOW.  What I don't know is that you know how to change it.  And that saddens me because you are such an amazing person.

I'm not, clearly.  I'm unfit for relationships.



Notice I framed it as BPD without actually calling it BPD, and she agreed with me.  That's the only way to get through to her.  She carries IMMENSE guilt.  And she knows she shouldn't be in a relationship, but she is anyway.  She needs one.  It's her identity.

It shouldn't come as a surprise that she took another happy photo with my replacement on Friday night.  If only he knew... .

[ReclaimingMyLife]

I actually had your future life evaluation thrust upon me in a moment of clarity one night. That pristine assessment is what caused me to terminate my relationship. As you saw with yours, I too saw no future with mine. I am here! I am free! My future is bright! My heart just hasn't reveled in those facts yet... . but it will!

Thanks heavens for the painful yet pristine clarity, apollotech.  I am holding onto mine because that clarity is what will get me (us) to that bright future!

[4Years5Months]

Yesterday, she "talked" to me again, by commenting/answering me on a mutual friends' Facebook post.  I answered back a couple of times.  I think this is happening because her current boyfriend won't see it as he isn't friends with the mutual friend.

This is particularly strange.  In the past, she would just text me.  He must be quite the hoverer.

Again, I love her, but no romantic feelings exist on my end anymore.  I know some of you want me to brace for a recycle attempt.  I don't really know what she's trying to do, but it's fascinating that she has used our in-depth conversation last week as an avenue to continue contact.

[Invictus01]

Yesterday, she "talked" to me again, by commenting/answering me on a mutual friends' Facebook post.  I answered back a couple of times.  I think this is happening because her current boyfriend won't see it as he isn't friends with the mutual friend.

This is particularly strange.  In the past, she would just text me.  He must be quite the hoverer.

Again, I love her, but no romantic feelings exist on my end anymore.  I know some of you want me to brace for a recycle attempt.  I don't really know what she's trying to do, but it's fascinating that she has used our in-depth conversation last week as an avenue to continue contact.

It is also fascinating to me that they can come and go as if nothing happened. If I disappeared on a woman I was with out of nowhere (can't imagine I'd do that), I'd feel so bad about it, about causing the other person so much pain, I'd never even think about getting back in touch with her. But I guess in their minds things are switched on and off so quickly that it's almost like they forget what they did to you and the new chapter starts.

[4Years5Months]

She has gone silent again, which I'm fine with.  I went with MY new girlfriend to a MLB baseball game last Tuesday, and I found out my ex was there with Mr. Replacement as well, after the fact.  I didn't see her, but I wonder if she saw us.

Reading back through the conversation with her that caused this thread, I look at her relationship with my replacement as filling a void more than actual love and affection.  The same thing happened in 2013 when she started dating a guy at college, and then I started dating another girl.  She was upset.  WHY, though?  Being with my new girl causes me to think about HER, not my ex.  Yeah, I know I'm posting about my ex on here right now, but I want to see my new girl, not her.  I couldn't care less what my ex is up to right now.  I don't think I can say the same for her.  And that baffles me - that she is still so hung up on me that she can't enjoy her new relationship.  Which leads me to again ask - WHAT exactly is that relationship with the replacement?

[JRT]

I speculate that there are two types of BPD r/s from their disordered perspective: a relationship and a replacement. The replacement r/s is what we might refer to as a rebound r/s in our world; one that satisfies an unfulfilled need created by the termination of a previous r/s. They are superficial and temporary in nature despite the fact that both parties might believe otherwise. Sooner or later, the wheels fall off of that r/s as well.

While I have read many stories of of a pwBPD ending one r/s and then running off to another (sometimes even involving marriage or pregnancy), I am not familiar with any such account that was a long term successful r/s. Matter of fact, most of them seem to hover back once the replacement r/s fails. 

 

[4Years5Months]

JRT, that's what I feel that she attempted to do last week, without directly saying it, and they are still together despite her overtures toward me.  Again, if she is committed to this new guy and is as happy with him as she says she is AND flaunts it on Facebook via photos and check-ins, then WHY is she talking to me and saying all of those things I quoted in my original post?

I took a very past-tense approach during our conversation, because I DO have a new girlfriend that I would rather spend time with than my ex.  My ex reached out to ME, and after trying to flaunt Mr. Replacement in my face ("I've been looking at jobs in NYC, (replacement) would go with me... .it's nice to have someone who wants to move with me" and having me VALIDATE that by saying I was happy for her, she went into the missing me mode you see in the OP in this thread.  I told her I love her and I miss what we had at times, but it's over and I have moved on.  That is when the love bombing started.

Two days later, she went to a baseball game and took a happy photo with him, so go figure.

[JRT]

People show one thing where the reality of the situation might often times be different, this is true especially when social media is involved. So her check ins, flaunting and even expressing interests in moving really don't come as a surprise; its likely all for show.

Superimpose that upon her reaching out to you; many pwBPD line up a replacement before they fully discard their current r/s. Consider that she may initiated the process of devaluing the replacement an is on the lookout for his replacement; you, another past r/s, the pizza guy... .etc. If it is consistent with the BPD way, you might have some drama on the way that might have to deal with.

[Agent_of_Chaos]

I speculate that there are two types of BPD r/s from their disordered perspective: a relationship and a replacement. The replacement r/s is what we might refer to as a rebound r/s in our world; one that satisfies an unfulfilled need created by the termination of a previous r/s. They are superficial and temporary in nature despite the fact that both parties might believe otherwise. Sooner or later, the wheels fall off of that r/s as well.

While I have read many stories of of a pwBPD ending one r/s and then running off to another (sometimes even involving marriage or pregnancy), I am not familiar with any such account that was a long term successful r/s. Matter of fact, most of them seem to hover back once the replacement r/s fails. 

 

If this is the case, are we all replacements in some form? Prior to our relationship, my ex had 3 semi serious relationships. Out of all of them, we lasted the longest. Her sister had told me that she had never seen her that happy, she was finally settiNg goals in life, etc. Then she just left.

[4Years5Months]

I was my ex's first boyfriend (if you don't count those junior high relationships that last a week) and I was her first sexual partner (physical evidence during our first time confirmed this).  She has regularly told me as part of the conversations in the OP that I am her "first love" and that is partly why she cannot let go of me.

[Reecer1588]

I was my ex's first boyfriend (if you don't count those junior high relationships that last a week) and I was her first sexual partner (physical evidence during our first time confirmed this).  She has regularly told me as part of the conversations in the OP that I am her "first love" and that is partly why she cannot let go of me.

Wow now that sounds crazy similar to me. But I haven't heard anything from

Mine yet. But yeah I was her first real, long, intimate relationship. But I haven't heard anything like that... .Well actually I haven't heard anything at all though.

Interesting to see I'm not the only one in the 'first' position.

[Heldfast]

AgentofChaos, that was mine. She and I were engaged, together, happy, everyone around us thought we were going to be the greatest couple, then she just disappeared, moving across country to... .her first love from 7 years ago, who apparently had been texting back and forth after we got engaged and they reconnected at a wedding of two mutual friends... .and her family gave me the whole, she'd never been so happy and self stable (even though she was very high functioning), but at the same time that she'd never had such terrible fibromyalgia as when she was with me, and they've never seen someone painted blacker after a relationship in her eyes. They knew I was wonderful for her and to her, and they hate the first boyfriend who they call "the troll."

Ah well, not going to try to understand crazy, just going to try to understand me.

[apollotech]

AgentofChaos, that was mine. She and I were engaged, together, happy, everyone around us thought we were going to be the greatest couple, then she just disappeared, moving across country to... .her first love from 7 years ago, who apparently had been texting back and forth after we got engaged and they reconnected at a wedding of two mutual friends... .and her family gave me the whole, she'd never been so happy and self stable (even though she was very high functioning), but at the same time that she'd never had such terrible fibromyalgia as when she was with me, and they've never seen someone painted blacker after a relationship in her eyes. They knew I was wonderful for her and to her, and they hate the first boyfriend who they call "the troll."

Ah well, not going to try to understand crazy, just going to try to understand me.

Heldfast,

It's interesting that you mention your exSO's fibromyalgia as that is a common illness amongst pwBPD. My BPDexgf had severe fibromalgia around me but never seemed to be afflicted with it to such severity otherwise. I often wondered if she willed it upon herself. I know that it's a real disease, but she seemed to be able to claim it, be afflcted by it, at opportune times.

[Agent_of_Chaos]

AgentofChaos, that was mine. She and I were engaged, together, happy, everyone around us thought we were going to be the greatest couple, then she just disappeared, moving across country to... .her first love from 7 years ago, who apparently had been texting back and forth after we got engaged and they reconnected at a wedding of two mutual friends... .and her family gave me the whole, she'd never been so happy and self stable (even though she was very high functioning), but at the same time that she'd never had such terrible fibromyalgia as when she was with me, and they've never seen someone painted blacker after a relationship in her eyes. They knew I was wonderful for her and to her, and they hate the first boyfriend who they call "the troll."

Ah well, not going to try to understand crazy, just going to try to understand me.

When I read posts similar to mine, part of me is comforted and part of me identifies with the pain. I'm sorry you went through that.

[Heldfast]

I almost feel for my replacement, thinking oh my god we are reunited and it must be true love after al, I got this woman to break her engagement and leave the Virgin Islands for me and Seattle. Fat, ugly little pug that he is... .wait for the ricochet.

[Restored2]

I am looking forward to being where you are. My brain is there but, as mentioned, the heart is not there just yet. Why? Beats me!

I'm right there with you Limbo.  If you are like me, and I think you are, the answer is very simple: we love them.  We just love them.  As messed up and confused and disordered as they are.  We were able to see the best in them, and there was a lot to see there.  We love them.  Just the way they are.  Simply because they are themselves.

I meant it when I told my ex that I would always love her no matter what.  That nothing could ever change my love for her.  Those weren't just words.  I meant them with total sincerity, and now that things are over I find that I still mean it.  I love her.  I just do.  And whether we are together or not doesn't really change that one bit.

I think I've reached the point where I'm ok with that.  Sometimes when you love someone you have to let them go and wish them the fondest of farewells.  But that doesn't mean that you stop loving them.

Hi Cosmonaut.  I can relate to where you are coming from on the love end.  I told mine that I love her unconditionally, which I meant and continue to still stand true to, despite all that she has done to mistreat and abuse me.  She said in her response that she did not know what unconditional love is.  Such a sad position for her, but it sure feels good for me to not waiver in my love for her. 

[4Years5Months]

I'm going to share the details of my original post in this topic with my therapist tomorrow.  Would anyone be interested in what she has to say?  I'm still amazed at how real my ex was in her comments that day.  Especially now that she has gone silent again, probably to cocoon herself from me as I'm a trigger, as her comments clearly showed.

[JRT]

I'm going to share the details of my original post in this topic with my therapist tomorrow.  Would anyone be interested in what she has to say?  I'm still amazed at how real my ex was in her comments that day.  Especially now that she has gone silent again, probably to cocoon herself from me as I'm a trigger, as her comments clearly showed.

Yes, absolutely!

[cosmonaut]

Sure, I'd be interested in your T's thoughts on things if you'd like to share with us.

[ReclaimingMyLife]

Of course!  Good luck with appt.

[downwhim]

4years,

Thanks for sharing this post. It helps to clarify how much pain they are really in and like JRT said she has a deep love for you. She bounces all over the place with her thinking. Just knowing you have someone else when she loves you/emotionally abuses you is her dilemma. She wants you yet she can't have you because of the way her mental illness forces her to abandon this feeling every time there is closeness. She can't even see your name and it triggers her.

I thought her one line saying when she started dating your replacement "it just organically turned into something more." I had no idea relationships were organic. 

[4Years5Months]

That is always her excuse.  It just happened!  (This time organically, but whatever)

It's just the way she feels.  It just happened.  She doesn't know what she wants.  She doesn't know why.  All of these are surface comments that don't require her to dig deep and really say what she feels.  Her long declaration to me in my OP in this thread is one of only maybe 3 or 4 times she has been THAT real.  Typically, she plays the victim and blames her life situation (if only I lived somewhere else!) - it is never about her as a person.  And that's why this repeats.  And that's why my replacement will eventually be discarded, regardless of if I am an option or not.  He's a naive, controllable guy who is happy to have a girlfriend, dumped and divorced from his wife within the last six months.  Of course my ex says he has been "over his ex-wife" for two years and the divorce wasn't anything major for him.  Sure... .as he comments on six month old photos of she and I on her Facebook because he wants her to take them down.  Seems REALLY confident and mature.  He's a loser who wants love... .just like my other two replacements.  And thanks to her warped infatuation ways, he will think he has hit the jackpot until she cuts him off out of nowhere.  She told me in our conversation that I am the only person on earth who has a piece of her heart.  Do you think HE knows that?

I have no doubt that my ex was testing the waters for a POSSIBLE recycle when she talked to me in the OP.  Perhaps not now, or even soon, but well, she had just fought with my replacement over the comment he made on Facebook, and well, she and I talked (messaged) for SIX HOURS that day.  Where was he?  Obviously not with her.  Fight + him not there = abandonment fear = reaching out to me.  Other than trading comments on a mutual friend's Facebook posts a week ago, I haven't heard from her since.  Obviously they made up, as was expected. 

Last night, she went to another baseball game with the replacement.  I knew she was doing this because, again, she mentioned it on a mutual friend's Facebook status update about said baseball team ("I'm going on Thursday!"  So, out of masochistic curiosity, I checked her Instagram last night.  There was a photo of the two of them at the game.  Neither were smiling, but eh, there they were, the "happy couple."  A couple of hours later, I checked again, and she had DELETED that photo and replaced it with one of the two of them, foreheads together, smiling broadly... .and the photo was from a MONTH ago when they started dating.  I know this because I saw it on a friend's phone one night.  She deleted one photo and replaced it with a happier one from a month ago.  Seriously, THAT much effort to show off your relationship?  I'm sure it was for me to see.  She has no idea I know it's an old photo.  She's trying REAL hard to make it seem like she is quite happy with him.  I just shake my head and remember our conversation from two weeks ago.  Do YOU think she's happy with this guy?  Please.

As for my therapy appointment?  I handed my therapist the same passage of her comments (printed) from the OP.  She read it, and well, she didn't have much to say about her words themselves, but:

"There are patterns to her behavior.  I told you she would reach out to you... .you knew she would... .and SHE knew she would, as she said it herself (in her comments).  This is a snapshot of that moment.  But she's not continuing to talk to you... .it was a fleeting thing.  It'll happen again, especially if you are receptive.  Obviously, she holds deep love for you and you hold deep love for her, but sit down and make a pie chart of when you felt unconditionally happy with her, and when you felt negative emotions like anxiety, anger, frustration, etc.  Something tells me those negative feelings will dominate the pie chart.  Yet you spent the entire relationship trying and sacrificing yourself for that miniscule amount of happiness.  I see it all the time with all kinds of relationships - you just want to get back to the happy points.  But sooner or later, you have to accept that the MAJORITY of what you are experiencing with this person is negative.  And that's not healthy, and not good for you."

In other words, stop chasing happiness that is dominated by negative emotions.  None of us should have to go through that as the majority of our romance with someone.  I see people on here that constantly post about UNDERSTANDING their BPDex and WHY are they not talking to me, WHY have I been replaced, etc.  I struggle with it, too.  But you will NEVER heal unless you (A) accept that it will ALWAYS happen with this person regardless of what you do and (B)  This will happen with EVERY RELATIONSHIP they are in, and (C) IT IS NOT ABOUT YOU.

And most importantly... .

(D) - They feel immense shame, guilt, regret, and sadness - even if they do not tell you.  If they aren't contacting you, it's because they feel that immense shame and cannot face you.  My ex gave me quite the gift without knowing it when she said all of those things in the OP.  But read her comments again... .notice how it's about HER.  Once a BPDer, always a BPDer.

So when you see and hear about how happy they are on Facebook with your replacement, how they seem to be OVER all of those negative emotions and are in a good place, simply because they are with them and not YOU - read my OP.  That is what they constantly feel, both about themselves, and you.  Anything else is a projection.  Just like it was with you.  It's THEM!

[LimboFL]

""There are patterns to her behavior.  I told you she would reach out to you... .you knew she would... .and SHE knew she would, as she said it herself (in her comments).  This is a snapshot of that moment.  But she's not continuing to talk to you... .it was a fleeting thing.  It'll happen again, especially if you are receptive.  Obviously, she holds deep love for you and you hold deep love for her, but sit down and make a pie chart of when you felt unconditionally happy with her, and when you felt negative emotions like anxiety, anger, frustration, etc.  Something tells me those negative feelings will dominate the pie chart.  Yet you spent the entire relationship trying and sacrificing yourself for that miniscule amount of happiness.  I see it all the time with all kinds of relationships - you just want to get back to the happy points.  But sooner or later, you have to accept that the MAJORITY of what you are experiencing with this person is negative.  And that's not healthy, and not good for you."

In other words, stop chasing happiness that is dominated by negative emotions.  None of us should have to go through that as the majority of our romance with someone.  I see people on here that constantly post about UNDERSTANDING their BPDex and WHY are they not talking to me, WHY have I been replaced, etc.  I struggle with it, too.  But you will NEVER heal unless you (A) accept that it will ALWAYS happen with this person regardless of what you do and (B)  This will happen with EVERY RELATIONSHIP they are in, and (C) IT IS NOT ABOUT YOU.

And most importantly... .

(D) - They feel immense shame, guilt, regret, and sadness - even if they do not tell you.  If they aren't contacting you, it's because they feel that immense shame and cannot face you.  My ex gave me quite the gift without knowing it when she said all of those things in the OP.  But read her comments again... .notice how it's about HER.  Once a BPDer, always a BPDer.

So when you see and hear about how happy they are on Facebook with your replacement, how they seem to be OVER all of those negative emotions and are in a good place, simply because they are with them and not YOU - read my OP.  That is what they constantly feel, both about themselves, and you.  Anything else is a projection.  Just like it was with you.  It's THEM!"

Wow, things we all know but to have them summed up like this, just wow. This is what my brain is going though as we speak. It is the mechanism (reminding myself over and over again of all of the negative emotions I felt, in the hopes that in short order, they will finally over power my absolutely incomprehensible longing for that good part, as though it was anything but fleeting), I continue to use whenever my screwed up brain starts to get twisted into thinking about her or wondering how happy she could be with my replacement, how lonely I feel, because the latter is ultimately the hardest part. We sit alone, in part angry because we lost what we want so much which is someone to love and who will love us, someone to talk to about the day, someone to kick our feet up on the couch with etc etc etc. There is a huge component of "it's not fu##### fair!, why after everything we have done, do we have to suffer the pain and loss and loneliness?"

Thank you for sharing 4 years. Again, we all know these things but it helps to be reminded especially by a professional.