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Author Topic: Was my ex-girlfriend a borderline?  (Read 1437 times)
Bensonshays
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« on: April 17, 2015, 01:35:30 AM »

I dated a girl for a month before she broke up with me. After discussing some of her behavior with a therapist and doing some research, I'm fairly certain she has BPD. Still, I thought it would be useful to get some insight from people who are more familiar with the disorder.

So to briefly summarize:

She was very affectionate and got attached to me very quickly, which was great at first. But I saw things from the very beginning that concerned me, but I overlooked them because I liked her a lot, and still do.

For example, after I kissed her for the first time, like immediately after, she started asking me about my last relationship. Our first date was on a Thursday. I didn't text her on Friday because my plan was to give her space for the weekend and ask her out again on Sunday. She text me Saturday afternoon and said, "You know you can say hi once in a while! Geez!"

When I went to my parents for Christmas, she wanted to talk every night, all six days I was gone, usually for 45 minutes. If I didn't text her until later in the day, she would send messages like, "I was beginning to think you died." I wasn't ignoring her, of course, I was just spending time with my family. If I ever tried to end a phone call before she felt it should end, she would say, "Oh, so I guess I'm boring you?"

She had to reschedule our plans a few times because she had to pick up some work or go to a family function, and every time this happened she would call and profusely apologize and ask me not to get mad at her. She would text me and ask if I missed her, which was weird because we talked every day and saw each other no less than twice a week.

She said she wanted to wait at least four months to meet my family. Naturally I agreed, but she flipped out when I did. "What? You're not supposed to agree with me!" Right before we'd have sex, she would grab me by the temples and ask, "Would you hang out with me if we weren't having sex?"

The night before she broke up with me, she called me and chastised me because I wasn't chasing her enough. She said that my short and spaced out text messages made her feel like she was being needy and annoying. I tried to console her by telling her everything was fine, and that I just wanted to maintain a little space because I didn't want the relationship to get boring. Then I agreed to texting her more, which I started doing later the same night. The next night she called me back and said we communicated differently and ended it. She was dating someone else within two weeks of ending our relationship, and she made sure I found out about it as well.

It seems like her actions were consistent with the symptoms of BPD: neediness, fear of abandonment, immediate emotional attachment rapidly followed by complete disinterest in the relationship. She would randomly switch between being very affectionate and totally distant, and I could never pinpoint what was triggering the mood swings.

She never got angry or violent, but there was a lot of drama stuffed into the brief amount of time we spent together. I did my best to put up reasonable boundaries, which worked initially, but she would complain that I was putting up walls to keep her out, that I wasn't opening up to her, and I unraveled pretty quickly. 

I only ask for input because I still like her and staying away has been frustrating. I haven't seen or spoken to her in a little over two months, but I still would like to know what the hell happened. I've spent a lot of time blaming myself, trying to figure out where things started to go south. I would definitely do a few things differently if I could go back, but I can't look back on anything that I did and understand why she would end the relationship over it.

I would appreciate any thoughts you all may have.
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« Reply #1 on: April 17, 2015, 08:48:39 AM »

I haven't seen or spoken to her in a little over two months, but I still would like to know what the hell happened. I've spent a lot of time blaming myself, trying to figure out where things started to go south. I would definitely do a few things differently if I could go back, but I can't look back on anything that I did and understand why she would end the relationship over it.

I would appreciate any thoughts you all may have.

I read several years ago that most relationships die in the first 150 days. I adopted a philosophy to not think too hard about it when they do.  It can really be anything.  

With online dating, it gets even crazier.  People are chatting with so many others - you may connect with someone and then someone else shows up on the scene and the person moves on.

Anyway, back to the question, is she BPD? There is not enough info her to really make an educated guess. She does sound needy.

Had she met the other guy are started putting her efforts in his direction - had they known each other and he finally decided to show her more interest - you'll never know, but it tends to sound like she bounced on out like happens so often in the early days.

You're doing a postmortem which is great. So tell us a little more... .

Attention(click to insert in post)  Warning. Don't think this was about the text messages.  It wasn't.
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« Reply #2 on: April 17, 2015, 09:28:36 AM »

To be honest, before you go the BPD route, you need to look at her past. Like way past, before she was born past. Personality disorders are pretty much 50% genetic and 50% upbringing. I am not sure if a month is long enough time to find out details like - what are her parents like? How was her relationship with her parents growing up? Not sure if a month is a long time to know all this. But from what you described, you should be glad she disappeared after a month. BPD or not, that behavior within A MONTH of starting dating is just beyond stupid.
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« Reply #3 on: April 17, 2015, 09:44:36 AM »

I read several years ago that most relationships die in the first 150 days. I adopted a philosophy to not think two hard about it when they do.  It can really be anything. 

That is true. But I think many people start searching for answers after a suspected personality disorder relationship because they end in such a weird and surreal fashion and the aftermath is so different that any other relationship, you just can't help it but wonder "what the heck just happened to me and what is it that I'm going through?" When a normal short term relationship ends, you talk about it with your ex, you kinda feel bummed about it but it goes away after a few days and you are really done over it in a few weeks (if it was a month long fling, a matter of days). You don't feel like you are going insane, you don't feel like a half of you just died in a car wreck, you don't lose the ability to eat or sleep or concentrate on things. Personally, I've had many many people tell me to just "get over it" and "move on" because it was just a 6.5 month relationship. What they didn't realize is that when it happened, I felt like I was run over by a bus. And while I was laying there with bones sticking out and blood everywhere, people would come up to me, look at me and go "Meh, no worries, get over it, walk it off, you'll be fine!" That's how it felt like except those broken bones and blood was inside of me. It is really tough not to think too hard about that.
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Bensonshays
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« Reply #4 on: April 17, 2015, 10:08:45 AM »

To be honest, before you go the BPD route, you need to look at her past. Like way past, before she was born past. Personality disorders are pretty much 50% genetic and 50% upbringing. I am not sure if a month is long enough time to find out details like - what are her parents like? How was her relationship with her parents growing up? Not sure if a month is a long time to know all this. But from what you described, you should be glad she disappeared after a month. BPD or not, that behavior within A MONTH of starting dating is just beyond stupid.

I knew her for about 6 months before we started dating. In that time I found out that she married at 18 and her husband left because he wasn't ready to commit. She got married again at 25 and that husband died in a car accident. She was in the car with him.

She grew up in a very conservative, perhaps even cultish, church where her behavior was severely restricted.  She also told me that her mother had some mental health issues in the past, though she didn't elaborate.

The guy she jumped to had been pursuing her for a year. Two weeks into our relationship, she told me he asked her out again and she refused because she was seeing me. She told me about him because she wanted to make sure we were exclusive. That was after just two weeks.

I'm know her break up excuse was nonsense. But she went from very happy with the relationship to completely disinterested in less than a week. I spent the night at her house that Thursday and she called me the following Wednesday to lay into me for not chasing her enough. This is what originally led  me to consider that she may have some kind of disorder.

I'm trying to learn from this experience,  figure out what I may have done to push her away, but I'm very confused by the whole situation.


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« Reply #5 on: April 17, 2015, 10:14:47 AM »

As others have said, more information is needed to determine if she has BPD, but it's certainly possible based on the black and white thinking (wanting all of your attention one moment and not needing any the next).

I'd lean toward yes, with the information you've given so far, including the fact that she tested you by seeing what you'd say about her waiting to meet your family. BorderlInes are famous for testing you to guage your love for them.

Did she ever discuss her past relationships with you early on? That's a big one some borderlines do in order to sound like a victim so you'll come to their rescue.

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« Reply #6 on: April 17, 2015, 10:20:24 AM »

After reading your latest response, I'm more convinced she's a borderline. They like to talk about other potential mates to create competition for them so you'll try harder to keep them. They feel comfortable when they suspect you are showing jealousy. They don't care about the insecurities they may be causing, and in fact, that's their intention in order to calm their abandonment fears. And they want you to think you're lucky for being the chosen one. It's so manipulative, and makes me sick since I went through that to an extreme.
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Bensonshays
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« Reply #7 on: April 17, 2015, 10:46:20 AM »

As others have said, more information is needed to determine if she has BPD, but it's certainly possible based on the black and white thinking (wanting all of your attention one moment and not needing any the next).

I'd lean toward yes, with the information you've given so far, including the fact that she tested you by seeing what you'd say about her waiting to meet your family. BorderlInes are famous for testing you to guage your love for them.

Did she ever discuss her past relationships with you early on? That's a big one some borderlines do in order to sound like a victim so you'll come to their rescue.

She talked about her deceased husband often. The first red flag caught my attention when she told me that she goes away on his birthday by herself every year to mourn him. When I pressed her about it, she said it wouldn't stop.

She didn't really talk badly about her past partners,  but she never had anything good to say either. Whenever she discussed her boyfriend prior to me, I could hear the disdain in her voice.

By the way, she started hanging out with me on Friday nights before breaking up with him. I thought it was weird, but I didn't dwell on it because I didn't have any designs on her at that point. But it's telling nonetheless because I think she did the same thing to me the week she broke up with me.
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« Reply #8 on: April 17, 2015, 10:54:26 AM »

What stands out most to me in your posts are three things:

~ Married twice by age 25.

~ Another man competing with you for her affections (with more time with her)

~ Your therapist see her behavior as being beyond normal impulsiveness.

So, maybe a little (or a lot flaky), her love language is "words of affirmation", and she's impulsive in romance (and you are more centered).

So was she involved in the other guy - then switched her eyes to you - got past the "honeymoon" (the playing field was more level) - she jumped back to him.

She had pulled away from him so he was likely pursuing her hard at the same time you were trying to keep things centered.  She even encouraged you to pursue harder.

Where you the rebound? An affair?  Rebounds and affairs are hugely hard to understand until you label it and understand the dynamics of each. While they are very different, one common factor is that things from the base relationship (the other guy) are played out in your relationship.

Does this fit at all?
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« Reply #9 on: April 17, 2015, 11:10:13 AM »

I only ask for input because I still like her and staying away has been frustrating.

I take it you'd like to reconnect?
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Bensonshays
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« Reply #10 on: April 17, 2015, 12:40:25 PM »

What stands out most to me in your posts are three things:

~ Married twice by age 25.

~ Another man competing with you for her affections (with more time with her)

~ Your therapist see her behavior as being beyond normal impulsiveness.

So, maybe a little (or a lot flaky), her love language is "words of affirmation", and she's impulsive in romance (and you are more centered).

So was she involved in the other guy - then switched her eyes to you - got past the "honeymoon" (the playing field was more level) - she jumped back to him.

My understanding is that he was the classic guy friend with a crush on her. When she dumped her ex-bf, guy friend went after her vigorously. I didn't chase, which is why she gave me a shot first, I think.

Excerpt
She had pulled away from him so he was likely pursuing her hard at the same time you were trying to keep things centered.  She even encouraged you to pursue harder.

At first, yes. But she said he disappeared after she turned him down while we were dating. I suspect that she got irritated that I didn't shower her with the affirmation she wanted and reopened the lines of communication with him.

Excerpt
Where you the rebound? An affair?  Rebounds and affairs are hugely hard to understand until you label it and understand the dynamics of each. While they are very different, one common factor is that things from the base relationship (the other guy) are played out in your relationship.

Does this fit at all?

I don't know. She talked about long term plans with me: going to family gatherings,  trips out of town. She also asked if I wanted kids, and she wanted confirmation after our second date that we were dating. She interrogated me about my past, who I'd slept with, dated etc. I could have been the rebound and she may have dumped her ex because he didn't give into her neediness, either. But that's speculation.

I would like her back, but that's just my emotions clouding my better judgement.  She is very beautiful and the sex was fantastic. Moreover, she was very sweet and feminine. But you guys seem to be confirming that this was just the honeymoon phase of a BPD relationship. 

I see a therapist for depression,  so I fear having to manage her constant mood swings would undo all the work I've put in to address my own issues. She hasn't tried to reconcile,  but getting back together is probably unwise.
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« Reply #11 on: April 17, 2015, 01:20:03 PM »

I would like her back, but that's just my emotions clouding my better judgement.  She is very beautiful and the sex was fantastic. Moreover, she was very sweet and feminine. But you guys seem to be confirming that this was just the honeymoon phase of a BPD relationship. 

Benson,

I don't think we are saying that she is mentally ill.  It could be:

    relationship rebounding,

    immaturity,

    short term mental illness (e.g., depression),

    substance induced illness (e.g., alcoholism),

    a mood disorder (e.g., bipolar),

    an anxiety disorder (e.g., PTSD),

    a personality disorder (e.g., BPD, NPD, 8 others),

    a neurodevelopmental disorder (e.g., ADHD, Aspergers), or

    any combination of the above (i.e., co-morbidity).

But lets go with the least case - let's say its relationship rebounding and emotional immaturity.

That's it. Rebounding and emotional immaturity.

2 marriages by 25. Dated you before breaking off with her BF.  Off to another man after a month.  Clingy.

Does this sound like the girl of your dreams?  I know she is attractive - thats a big factor. But what about her maturity and style?

And a bigger question. You already know this.  She is gone and sleeping with another guy.  What is it that is so compelling about her that it outweighs this?

Don't give it too much thought.  What allures and fears come to mind?

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Bensonshays
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« Reply #12 on: April 17, 2015, 03:30:41 PM »

I would like her back, but that's just my emotions clouding my better judgement.  She is very beautiful and the sex was fantastic. Moreover, she was very sweet and feminine. But you guys seem to be confirming that this was just the honeymoon phase of a BPD relationship. 

Benson,

I don't think we are saying that she is mentally ill.  It could be:

    relationship rebounding,

    immaturity,

    short term mental illness (e.g., depression),

    substance induced illness (e.g., alcoholism),

    a mood disorder (e.g., bipolar),

    an anxiety disorder (e.g., PTSD),

    a personality disorder (e.g., BPD, NPD, 8 others),

    a neurodevelopmental disorder (e.g., ADHD, Aspergers), or

    any combination of the above (i.e., co-morbidity).

But lets go with the least case - let's say its relationship rebounding and emotional immaturity.

That's it. Rebounding and emotional immaturity.

2 marriages by 25. Dated you before breaking off with her BF.  Off to another man after a month.  Clingy.

Does this sound like the girl of your dreams?  I know she is attractive - thats a big factor. But what about her maturity and style?

And a bigger question. You already know this.  She is gone and sleeping with another guy.  What is it that is so compelling about her that it outweighs this?

Don't give it too much thought.  What allures and fears come to mind?

My frustration comes from not knowing why things ended so abruptly. I took all the blame at first,  for not showing her the affection that she wanted and then failing to stand up to her when she complained about it.

But after getting some counseling and looking back over her behavior,  she clearly has some unresolved issues. Breaking things down helps me learn from my experiences. So linking her behavior to some definable condition, whatever it may be,  gave me a framework for analyzing what happened.

"She got bored and moved on" is a very unsatisfying answer. Why did she get bored? And how did it happen so quickly? If I mishandled things,  I can accept that. But I want figure out what I did so I can improve for the next relationship.

She doesn't sound like a dream girl, she is, in fact, a complete mess. But we had an amazing,  albeit brief, time together. Knowing that she could move on from that so quickly was a very painful realization for me.

What bothers me the most is that I have to start over with someone else. I don't have a problem meeting women,  but I struggle with some insecurities that stem from the depression, and starting from square one is discouraging.

This is why I'm staying away from her. Despite her issues, I would be tempted to take her back because we have some rapport. That's the allure.
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« Reply #13 on: April 17, 2015, 07:24:38 PM »

"She got bored and moved on" is a very unsatisfying answer. Why did she get bored? And how did it happen so quickly? If I mishandled things,  I can accept that. But I want figure out what I did so I can improve for the next relationship.

You didn't do anything wrong. You were playing an unwinnable game. She got bored/was able to move on so quickly because of her black and white thinking. There is very little gray area in a borderline's world. You're either awesome, or you're nothing, in their eyes. You became nothing because of her, not because of yourself. She set you up with impossible demands that no healthy human being would be willing to meet, and even if they were, it probably still wouldn't be enough to fulfill her needs.

One such impossible test was when she told you she didn't want to meet your family for four months and got angry with you when you agreed. Borderlines have plenty of impossible tests to pass. Mine was going back home (lives on the other side of the country) and was in a rush to get out the door (flight the next morning in a semi-distant city). A day or two later she told me she waited outside for five minutes hoping I'd come outside to tell her not to leave. A borderline I was in a relationship with 10 years ago asked me, "If someone in your family and I were drowning, and you could only save one of us, which one of us would you save?" All of the above is ridiculous, including the test your borderline gave you.

I actually told my sister today about your story (your ex not wanting to meet your family for four months and getting mad when you were okay with that). It reminded me a lot about the games borderline's play to gauge how much you love them (from their perspective).
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« Reply #14 on: April 18, 2015, 12:15:36 AM »

So what happens,  typically? They go from infatuated to distant and decide they don't want you anymore?

The week things ended,  she was scheduled to adopt some foster kids for a few months (yet another  Red flag/bad  (click to insert in post) I overlooked), then the agency told her she wasn't getting her kids. Could that have sent her into a depressive episode that she took out on me?
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« Reply #15 on: April 18, 2015, 12:27:43 AM »

So what happens,  typically? They go from infatuated to distant and decide they don't want you anymore?

The week things ended,  she was scheduled to adopt some foster kids for a few months (yet another  Red flag/bad  (click to insert in post) I overlooked), then the agency told her she wasn't getting her kids. Could that have sent her into a depressive episode that she took out on me?

They have to have someone in their life, typically. If that other guy didn't exist, you'd probably still be being tortured by her games. What turned her off to you, she may have answered herself the night before she broke up with you. "You aren't chasing me enough." You're not her babysitter, but she needs one, so she probably went to this next guy to see if he'd drape himself on her 24/7.

I don't think the foster kids thing had anything to with it. When bad things happen, they need someone to cry to. I'm generalizing here, but with the four cluster B personalities I've been involved with, it holds true.
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« Reply #16 on: April 18, 2015, 01:08:47 AM »

If my ex didn't see me ever day and speak to me at least every few hours it would drive him crazy. Maybe it was the same for her and seeing you twice a week wasn't enough. Please don't take this the wrong way we are all here for the same reason which is to get past the hurt and confusion we feel and you're feelings are as real and as important as mine but I noticed you spoke about her attachment to you yet it seems that you got attached just as quickly to her
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« Reply #17 on: April 18, 2015, 01:41:19 AM »

If my ex didn't see me ever day and speak to me at least every few hours it would drive him crazy. Maybe it was the same for her and seeing you twice a week wasn't enough. Please don't take this the wrong way we are all here for the same reason which is to get past the hurt and confusion we feel and you're feelings are as real and as important as mine but I noticed you spoke about her attachment to you yet it seems that you got attached just as quickly to her

I don't deny that I got attached.  I found it odd from the beginning, but I was just getting comfortable with the fact that she needed more affection than other girls I've dated - "her love language is words of affirmation" - people told me. Then she bounces and leaves me wondering "what the ___?" My understanding is that this is a common outcome in these relationships.

Two other notes I'd your guys input on:

She complained that I didn't pursue her enough,  but she never gave me a chance. She text me every morning and we saw each other often, as I mentioned previously.  I honestly never had a chance to miss her, so I never thought to tell her I did. It's actually comical now that I think about it.

Also, the moment I agreed to change my behavior, she seemed almost repulsed by my concession.  I thought the right response would have been something like, "I really care about you, but I have a busy life and I can't spend  all day texting you." Now I honestly don't know if there was a right answer.
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« Reply #18 on: April 18, 2015, 01:51:15 AM »

So what happens,  typically? They go from infatuated to distant and decide they don't want you anymore?

The week things ended,  she was scheduled to adopt some foster kids for a few months (yet another  Red flag/bad  (click to insert in post) I overlooked), then the agency told her she wasn't getting her kids. Could that have sent her into a depressive episode that she took out on me?

They have to have someone in their life, typically. If that other guy didn't exist, you'd probably still be being tortured by her games. What turned her off to you, she may have answered herself the night before she broke up with you. "You aren't chasing me enough." You're not her babysitter, but she needs one, so she probably went to this next guy to see if he'd drape himself on her 24/7.

I don't think the foster kids thing had anything to with it. When bad things happen, they need someone to cry to. I'm generalizing here, but with the four cluster B personalities I've been involved with, it holds true.

That was my suspicion,  too. What's funny, at least to me, is that she could have had this guy whenever she wanted. Yet she turned him down initially, probably because he was too available. I swear you'd have to be a sociopath to tolerate the mind games.
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« Reply #19 on: April 18, 2015, 02:31:15 AM »

From 4 years experience let me just say the right answer would depend upon the mood that day or better yet that moment.  You did nothing wrong. It seems they just wake up one day and decided to pull the rug out from us and make our heads spin. Don't be surprised if she once again contacts you. Most likely when you are moving on with your life.
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« Reply #20 on: April 18, 2015, 04:54:32 AM »

Bensonshay... .I read all the posts. I guess I t's hard to know if she was BPD and I know we are only hearing things from your side (although you sound very reasonable and balanced).

The question I want to ask is... .Do you see a woman that was trying to love you or one that was trying to control you?

I definitely feel for you and am glad you are here trying to sort the relationship out... .at least one of you is!  
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« Reply #21 on: April 18, 2015, 10:35:10 AM »

From 4 years experience let me just say the right answer would depend upon the mood that day or better yet that moment.  You did nothing wrong. It seems they just wake up one day and decided to pull the rug out from us and make our heads spin. Don't be surprised if she once again contacts you. Most likely when you are moving on with your life.

I wouldn't be surprised. She uses men for validation, like many insecure girls do, so I'm willing to bet there's "I was just thinking about you" text in my future. 
Bensonshay... .I read all the posts. I guess I t's hard to know if she was BPD and I know we are only hearing things from your side (although you sound very reasonable and balanced).

The question I want to ask is... .Do you see a woman that was trying to love you or one that was trying to control you?

I think she'd agree with everyone here, that I wasn't giving her the attention she wanted. Of course she'd never admit her demands were unreasonable.  "Someone like me needs to be chased," she told me before she dumped me.

She could be very loving, but there was always some kind of drama that I had to deal with. That was her means of controlling me.
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« Reply #22 on: April 18, 2015, 11:34:57 AM »

From 4 years experience let me just say the right answer would depend upon the mood that day or better yet that moment.  You did nothing wrong. It seems they just wake up one day and decided to pull the rug out from us and make our heads spin. Don't be surprised if she once again contacts you. Most likely when you are moving on with your life.

I wouldn't be surprised. She uses men for validation, like many insecure girls do, so I'm willing to bet there's "I was just thinking about you" text in my future. 
Bensonshay... .I read all the posts. I guess I t's hard to know if she was BPD and I know we are only hearing things from your side (although you sound very reasonable and balanced).

The question I want to ask is... .Do you see a woman that was trying to love you or one that was trying to control you?

I think she'd agree with everyone here, that I wasn't giving her the attention she wanted. Of course she'd never admit her demands were unreasonable.  "Someone like me needs to be chased," she told me before she dumped me.

She could be very loving, but there was always some kind of drama that I had to deal with. That was her means of controlling me.

"I am the kind of girl that needs to be chased."  That is not love my friend. That at the very least is one VERY self-centered person.  You sound like a healthy guy.

I think you can do MUCH better.   
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« Reply #23 on: April 18, 2015, 11:47:39 AM »

I've read this entire thread. All of the behaviors are consistent with BPD, but they also do not exclude other possible diagnoses so there's nothing conclusive here. In lieu of an absolute diagnosis, ask yourself if this is a woman that you could see being happy with?  :)o these behaviors indicate that this person would be a good emotional match for the kind of person you are?  Stop second guessing yourself!  We all do it, it's part of the spell that gets put on us in these relationships with dysfunctional people.

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« Reply #24 on: April 18, 2015, 02:24:24 PM »

Two other notes I'd your guys input on:

She complained that I didn't pursue her enough, but she never gave me a chance. She text me every morning and we saw each other often, as I mentioned previously.  I honestly never had a chance to miss her, so I never thought to tell her I did. It's actually comical now that I think about it.

Also, the moment I agreed to change my behavior, she seemed almost repulsed by my concession.  I thought the right response would have been something like, "I really care about you, but I have a busy life and I can't spend  all day texting you." Now I honestly don't know if there was a right answer.

You're right. There was no right answer. Borderlines like the thrill of the chase. If you are too distant emotionally with them, they fear abandonment. If you are too close to them, they either get bored or feel smothered.
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« Reply #25 on: April 18, 2015, 09:06:31 PM »

Two other notes I'd your guys input on:

She complained that I didn't pursue her enough, but she never gave me a chance. She text me every morning and we saw each other often, as I mentioned previously.  I honestly never had a chance to miss her, so I never thought to tell her I did. It's actually comical now that I think about it.

Also, the moment I agreed to change my behavior, she seemed almost repulsed by my concession.  I thought the right response would have been something like, "I really care about you, but I have a busy life and I can't spend  all day texting you." Now I honestly don't know if there was a right answer.

You're right. There was no right answer. Borderlines like the thrill of the chase. If you are too distant emotionally with them, they fear abandonment. If you are too close to them, they either get bored or feel smothered.

Here are a couple of things to take note of from one of my favorite websites about borderlines:

*Only wanting/loving you when there's distance--or they can't actually have you.

what a terrible disoder. I had no chance. Has anyone  succeeded? 
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« Reply #26 on: April 18, 2015, 09:37:13 PM »

what a terrible disoder. I had no chance. Has anyone  succeeded?  

I suspect some people have had relatively successful relationships with borderlines, but only in cases where the borderline is aware of their diagnosis, takes responsibility for their actions, and tries to improve. Even then the relationship will probably experience obstacles that a typical relationship wouldn't.

And I don't think it's very common that a borderline will do all of the above. Even if they become aware of their diagnosis, it can take a lot of introspection, something most of them don't have, to change behaviors that have been engrained into their psyche for several, several years. So even if they want to change, which few seem to want to do, it takes a lot of work to actually change.

Reading stories of others, on these message boards and elsewhere, it sounds like many have had good experiences with borderlines for a number of years, but then one day things suddenly change. It's almost as if they are a ticking time bomb, but none of us know how much time is left until things explode.

For you and I, the fuse was very short, and our relationships hardly lasted long at all. Sometimes I wonder if I should be thankful for the guy who took the borderline's attention away from me (he was an ex of hers who came back into her life). We may be screwed up right now, wondering what the heck happened, but on the bright side, several years of our lives weren't wasted. I'm not trying to rub it in for those who were involved for several years, but this is your thread, so I just wanted to look on the bright side for you.
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« Reply #27 on: April 19, 2015, 05:04:05 AM »

what a terrible disoder. I had no chance. Has anyone  succeeded?  

I suspect some people have had relatively successful relationships with borderlines, but only in cases where the borderline is aware of their diagnosis, takes responsibility for their actions, and tries to improve. Even then the relationship will probably experience obstacles that a typical relationship wouldn't.

And I don't think it's very common that a borderline will do all of the above. Even if they become aware of their diagnosis, it can take a lot of introspection, something most of them don't have, to change behaviors that have been engrained into their psyche for several, several years. So even if they want to change, which few seem to want to do, it takes a lot of work to actually change.

Reading stories of others, on these message boards and elsewhere, it sounds like many have had good experiences with borderlines for a number of years, but then one day things suddenly change. It's almost as if they are a ticking time bomb, but none of us know how much time is left until things explode.

For you and I, the fuse was very short, and our relationships hardly lasted long at all. Sometimes I wonder if I should be thankful for the guy who took the borderline's attention away from me (he was an ex of hers who came back into her life). We may be screwed up right now, wondering what the heck happened, but on the bright side, several years of our lives weren't wasted. I'm not trying to rub it in for those who were involved for several years, but this is your thread, so I just wanted to look on the bright side for you.

That's a good point. I had a  hard time accepting that she would be trouble in the long run. But the longer I stay away,  the more obvious it becomes that she did me a favor by walking away.
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« Reply #28 on: April 19, 2015, 09:30:32 AM »

Quote from: Left broken and confused
Don't be surprised if she once again contacts you. Most likely when you are moving on with your life.

How do you guys respond when your ex's  break no contact? I'm anticipating that mine will be checking up to see if I'm willing to give her some attention. She did that once after the break up.
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« Reply #29 on: April 19, 2015, 09:56:20 AM »

what a terrible disorder. I had no chance. Has anyone  succeeded?  

Benson,

Its appealing to think that the person who rejected us is a broken and its not us. Be careful with that.  It's not the most healthy approach to this.

Clearly this girl bounces from on guy to another without stopping to regroup and heal.  She started with you before she ended her last relationship.  She may have don the same to you.

She also had a husband die in a car accident that she was in.  That may have something to do with her flakiness.  Or she may just be flaky.

But to diagnosis her with a PD and start saying things like "she'll never have a good relationship" is more about you trying to shield yourself from the rejection anxiety you are struggling with than the an unbiased assessment of her.

It will help to see yourself in all of this.  There are things in you that make this hard to shake off.  Take them on.

Why?

Because, you may very well be faced with a long term relationship that fails at some point - and if a "one monther" is this traumatic, imagine how failure in a longer, deeper relationship will be.

A good place to start is to take this thing apart and look at where you may have stumbled.

For example - when she had not ended her prior relationship and you were intimate with her, you were in stepping into an ultra high risk situation.

1. She was cheating to be with you (and that tends to comeback around)

2. The likelihood of her going back to the prior relationship was high.

3. The likelihood that you and her was a rebound was high.

4. You were have deep intimate sex with her and this was triggering all the physiological bonding hormones in you that, if the relationship failed, would then cause you the physiological/psychological pain you are feeling now.

A big lesson here is not to do this to yourself again.

Don't let this message get by.  There is an evolutionary reason why we are constructed to suffer when a relationship fails. Its a learning process.


Quote from: Left broken and confused
Don't be surprised if she once again contacts you. Most likely when you are moving on with your life.

How do you guys respond when your ex's  break no contact? I'm anticipating that mine will be checking up to see if I'm willing to give her some attention. She did that once after the break up.

The bigger question is whether you are going to pursue this relationship if given a chance or if you see that it is unhealthy proposition that will likely cause you more pain and stay away from it. 
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« Reply #30 on: April 19, 2015, 11:22:38 AM »

what a terrible disorder. I had no chance. Has anyone  succeeded?  

Benson,

Its appealing to think that the person who rejected us is a broken and its not us. Be careful with that.  It's not the most healthy approach to this.

You're right.  But I said earlier that I blamed myself entirely at the beginning. When my therapist first said she probably has a personality disorder, I didn't want to use that to excuse the mistakes I made.  

Excerpt
but to diagnosis her with a PD and start saying things like "she'll never have a good relationship" is more about you trying to shield yourself from the rejection anxiety you are struggling with than the an unbiased assessment of her.

I'm not diagnosing her. One of the reasons I decided to post here is because I didn't want to give in to the temptation you're describing.

Excerpt
Because, you may very well be faced with a long term relationship that fails at some point - and if a "one monther" is this traumatic, imagine how failure in a longer, deeper relationship will be.

I was late to the dating game, and this was my first attempt at a relationship. This is no doubt making things more difficult.  


Excerpt
For example - when she had not ended her prior relationship and you were intimate with her, you were in stepping into an ultra high risk situation.

That didn't happen. I was giving her foreign language lessons, and I didn't make a move until she told me her last relationship had ended.  


 

Excerpt
A big lesson here is not to do this to yourself again.

I agree. Had she been willing to cheat on her bf with me, or revealed that she wanted a casual relationship, I never would have got involved with her. But everything she did suggested that she wanted a committed relationship.



Quote from: Left broken and confused
Don't be surprised if she once again contacts you. Most likely when you are moving on with your life.

How do you guys respond when your ex's  break no contact? I'm anticipating that mine will be checking up to see if I'm willing to give her some attention. She did that once after the break up.

Excerpt
The bigger question is whether you are going to pursue this relationship if given a chance or if you see that it is unhealthy proposition that will likely cause you more pain and stay away from it. 

I know it's the latter. But I wonder if I should interact with her at all. We have many mutual friends and I'll inevitably see her again at some point.
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« Reply #31 on: April 19, 2015, 01:32:33 PM »

Hi Bensonshays,

I'm going on 17 months of being out of a 3+ year r/s with uBPD/NPD ex gf.  The things that you stated your ex gf said or texted during the beginning of your r/s have great similarities to what I experienced.  I had opportunities to walk away early on or to not pursue my ex gf when she would strongly hint at breaking up or not being ready for a r/s.  I didn't and I own that.  Again, I stayed for over three years and things progressively got worse.  The push/pull got worse.  The emotional abuse/blackmail got worse.  My neglect of my own needs and values got worse.  Her rages turned physical towards me in the end.  I left the r/s and struggled for six or eight months while I turned the focus inward.

I no longer spend much time analyzing the r/s other than simply knowing that it didn't work for me.  The emotional immaturity, push/pull, neediness, emotional abuse/blackmail, chaos, emotional roller coaster and ultimate physical abuse all were adverse to my own values.  The longer I stayed, the worse it got and it doesn't matter what I wanted to label her.  The r/s was dysfunctional, unhealthy and didn't at all meet my expectations.  Along with all of this, there was nothing I could do to change the outcome and in time I recovered and detached.  I feel like I received many gifts of wisdom from the experience and most importantly I revived an old r/s in my life = with me!  I am now in a healthy r/s with a fabulous person with whom I share many values and interests.  This r/s looks NOTHING like the one with my ex gf. 

I can see your frustration and hurt from your posts.  IMHO, she did you a favor walking away and you can now work on yourself and foster r/s with people you share interests and value with.  Take your time parsing this one out.  I needed a good amount of time to work through the effects of my past r/s.  I still come back to this site to maintain my perspective and awareness of what I once dealt with.  The sun will shine again and I wish you the best!
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« Reply #32 on: April 19, 2015, 06:09:03 PM »

I can see your frustration and hurt from your posts.  IMHO, she did you a favor walking away and you can now work on yourself and foster r/s with people you share interests and value with.  Take your time parsing this one out.  I needed a good amount of time to work through the effects of my past r/s.  I still come back to this site to maintain my perspective and awareness of what I once dealt with.  The sun will shine again and I wish you the best!

Thanks. I agree that getting away was a good idea, but I still struggle with the rejection on occasion. The physical and emotional intimacy was a powerful combination, and it was there from the very beginning. Losing it sent me into a state that I imagine is comparable to drug withdrawal.

The good news is that the things I miss about her I can get from someone else, and without all the baggage she carries. I've also gotten to work fixing a number of things about myself that I didn't realize needed attention, so a lot of good has come from my time with her.   
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« Reply #33 on: April 19, 2015, 09:48:26 PM »

There were a few other things she did that I wanted input on. About a week after the break up, with no contact during that period, I saw her at a couple of social events that I had to attend. I was friendly and tried to hide the frustration I was feeling. I said hi and gave her a hug to avoid any awkwardness, because we were going to be around each other all night. She squeezed me tightly when we hugged, and later when I walked by her on my way to the bathroom, she didn't move out of my path so I lightly bumped her with my shoulder as I passed by. She also stuck her leg out behind her to trip me as I walked back. She also teased me about some of my fb posts, which I playfully rebuffed. We were flirting, but I didn't understand why she was engaging me like this. I was still a mess at this point and really wanted her back, so flirting with her seemed appropriate. What was her motivation? Looking back, I'd say she was probably just toying with me, though I'm not sure.

Then two days later, she sent me a fake text. She made it look like it was for one of her friends, but there's no way she would have accidentally sent it to me. Since we hadn't texted for over a week, she had to scroll down to our conversation on her list of text threads. I thought this was just her fishing for validation and/or looking for confirmation that she made the right choice in dumping me.

Do you all agree?
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« Reply #34 on: April 19, 2015, 10:06:08 PM »

What was her motivation? Looking back, I'd say she was probably just toying with me, though I'm not sure.

I thought this was just her fishing for validation and/or looking for confirmation that she made the right choice in dumping me.

Do you all agree?

I'm not sure I understand how sending you a fake text would have validated her decision to dump you. Can you explain your thought processes on this is?

Her motivation for everything you mentioned (flirting, fake texts, etc.) is to keep you at a distance in her life. Remember, borderlines fear abandonment to an extreme. So she's going to keep herself comfortable with you in her life at an arm's length, trying to confirm that you're still available. Play her game (flirting/not remaining no contact), and she'll feel comfortable. Ignore her all together (no validation that you're thinking about her anymore), and she'll freak the ____ out.
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« Reply #35 on: April 19, 2015, 10:53:54 PM »

What was her motivation? Looking back, I'd say she was probably just toying with me, though I'm not sure.

I thought this was just her fishing for validation and/or looking for confirmation that she made the right choice in dumping me.

Do you all agree?

I'm not sure I understand how sending you a fake text would have validated her decision to dump you. Can you explain your thought processes on this is?

I think that she was baiting me and suspect her rationale was something like: "I just told you that I don't want you as a boyfriend. Are you still willing to chase me?"

And I was. I responded despite my better judgement because I thought she may have had dumper's remorse. After we exchanged a couple of texts, I called her and she screened my call. She sent me a few more texts, but her replies became terse and I sensed annoyance in her words:

Her: I've got screaming kids right now (she's a daycare provider), what's up?"

Me: nothing, just saying hi. have a good day.

Her: Thank you [my name]. I hope you have a great day!

I sent that text in the foreign language I was teaching her. We used to practice that way while we dated. She sent her final reply in English, and I think she knew that would bother me.

 

Excerpt
Her motivation for everything you mentioned (flirting, fake texts, etc.) is to keep you at a distance in her life. Remember, borderlines fear abandonment to an extreme. So she's going to keep herself comfortable with you in her life at an arm's length, trying to confirm that you're still available. Play her game (flirting/not remaining no contact), and she'll feel comfortable. Ignore her all together (no validation that you're thinking about her anymore), and she'll freak the ____ out.

Everything I mentioned took place in late January. I haven't seen or spoken to her since early February, and that was because we both had to perform at a concert. I'm sure she still keeps tabs on my facebook profile, but I haven't initiated any contact with her, or even spoken to our mutual friends about her.
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« Reply #36 on: April 20, 2015, 07:05:08 PM »

what a terrible disorder. I had no chance. Has anyone  succeeded?  

... .to diagnosis her with a PD and start saying things like "she'll never have a good relationship" is more about you trying to shield yourself from the rejection anxiety you are struggling with than the an unbiased assessment of her.

It will help to see yourself in all of this.  There are things in you that make this hard to shake off.  Take them on.

I've been thinking about your comments for the last few days and I was hoping you would elaborate. I'll admit that there was a certain appeal to the possibility that she has an untreated personality disorder, because it gave me a thread with which to link all the erratic behavior I couldn't explain. Before my therapist brought up BPD as an explanation, I had not considered that she may be unstable in some way. I just attributed the sudden end of the relationship to my inexperience and insecurity. That made me feel terrible but I was still willing to accept it. So I'm wondering what an objective assessment of the situation looks like, in your opinion.

Not having her around is really frustrating, but as a part of going NC I've also completely pulled out of the social circle that we share. Being around our mutual friends is embarrassing because they all know what happened, and there's an added level of stress because I have to carry on like nothing is bothering me. Instead of subjecting myself to that, I just decided to get away until my emotions even out.

The point is, I've altered my life pretty drastically because of the break up, though I don't want those changes to be permanent. Looking at this entire experience fairly is an important part of getting over it and restoring some normalcy. But I don't know how to figure out where I "may have stumbled," as you put it.  
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« Reply #37 on: April 20, 2015, 08:28:47 PM »

It's not all you.  Its not all neat in a mental illness package either.

You will need to work this for a while to really get it.  But from the little you have said, this sounds like she has issues in her last relationship, rebounded into you, it wasn't exactly what she wanted, and she bounced down the line to the next guy. She may bounce again. It's not pathological.

Knowing what happened in the last relationship is as significant as any mental health issues. Your relationship with her was most likely a part of the breakup of her prior relationship.  The relationship she is in now, may also be the same.  She might bounce around for a year before getting over the prior relationship and settling down. Its possible her prior relationship was a continuation of her marriage that ended in the shocking death of her husband.

I don't know what happened, but likely one or two prior relationships are playing far more into this than you are thinking.

Does she have issues?  There are many signs of emotional maturity.  Is it pathological?  I don't think anyone knows based on the little information you have, but its possible.

Lastly, if you're going to date, you have to approach every relationship with the knowledge that a million things can go wrong in the first 90 - 120 days so don't sell you soul to early.  Its also important to not be too easy, or too practical, or too ______. It's important to let things play out and be court a partner.

That's a lot of speculation on my part, but it should give you three tracks to start examining with members here.
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« Reply #38 on: April 20, 2015, 11:02:56 PM »

You will need to work this for a while to really get it.  But from the little you have said, this sounds like she has issues in her last relationship, rebounded into you, it wasn't exactly what she wanted, and she bounced down the line to the next guy. She may bounce again. It's not pathological.

What have I said that makes you think this was a rebound relationship? And what do you mean when you say "rebound?" I always thought it meant using one partner to get over another. She harbored a crush on me in the months leading up to our fling/relationship; I stayed away precisely because it seemed risky to go after someone in a committed relationship. And once we started dating, nothing she did or said suggested that she was in it for the short term. Unless I'm missing the subtlety of your point. 

Excerpt
Knowing what happened in the last relationship is as significant as any mental health issues. Your relationship with her was most likely a part of the breakup of her prior relationship.  The relationship she is in now, may also be the same.  She might bounce around for a year before getting over the prior relationship and settling down. Its possible her prior relationship was a continuation of her marriage that ended in the shocking death of her husband.

That seems possible. After her husband died, I know she dated a couple of other guys before the boyfriend prior to me. So your bouncing theory makes sense, however I wonder if it's her traumatic past that's causing her to blow up relationships unnecessarily, or if I (and the others) did something that pushed her away. This is where my insecurity comes in. I've worked hard to improve my romantic prospects in the last few years, and failing so soon into a relationship I wanted to last is very depressing.

Excerpt
I don't know what happened, but likely one or two prior relationships are playing far more into this than you are thinking.

How?

Excerpt
Does she have issues?  There are many signs of emotional maturity.  Is it pathological?  I don't think anyone knows based on the little information you have, but its possible.

What would confirm that it's pathological? I ask because BPD or some kind of cluster B disorder explains a lot in my mind. The immediate attachment, random mood swings between neediness and distance, weird loyalty tests, adopting three toddlers as you're entering a new relationship, and of course the sudden rejection. The last one isn't telling by itself, but I went from being the greatest thing since sliced bread to completely unworthy of her affection within the span of a week.

Excerpt
Lastly, if you're going to date, you have to approach every relationship with the knowledge that a million things can go wrong in the first 90 - 120 days so don't sell you soul to early.  Its also important to not be too easy, or too practical, or too ______. It's important to let things play out and be court a partner.

Naturally, and I tried to do just that. I really liked her but I was careful to ease into things for precisely that reason. That's why I was cautious about calling and texting too much, and why I agreed to having her wait to meet my family. I didn't rush into labeling our relationship, either. I was consciously taking all these steps to keep my own neediness in check and let things evolve as they may, because that was always my downfall. But this strategy blew up in my face. The whole courtship was distorted by the behaviors I mentioned above.
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« Reply #39 on: April 21, 2015, 09:15:32 AM »

Bensonshays - I'm giving you pathways to explore. Take some time, talk it through it with the members and your counselor.

Here is a decent definition of rebound relationship:

https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/intense-emotions-and-strong-feelings/201309/rebound-relationships

I think the bottom line is what are you looking for?  I thought you wanted to understand the human aspects of what happened here to help you go forward.  I also get the sense that having a simple "she's crazy" might be good enough.

The fact is that you are not seeing all these other pieces that play into what might have happened.  You will see these things again in other relationships. You need to develop the skills to read them and react to them in life.

Based on what you've told me, and if it was me, I'd write most of this off as "under 90 days".  It could be anything and you may not figure it out with certainty.  I'd look at my own behavior and try to determine if I was doing anything that was really off so that I could learn from the experience and I move forward.  Courting someone in the early days is complicated - and with Internet dating - its really easy for someone to see a blemish and run.

This is the world we are in right now.

I wouldn't look at her, based solely on how she acted for the 30 days you were together.  She had a huge life changing event (death of a husband), bounced into a relationship with you and bounced on to someone else which is an indication that she wasn't too significantly connected to either of these partnerships.  Maybe she just into having fun right now.

Is this because she is living in the moment (following a death), rebounding, going through a phase, has always been emotionally immature, or has some personality defect doesn't really matter - she was not emotionally available to you.

That's the read you needed to see.  

And sex is not necessarily an emotional connection.  Sometimes it's just validation.

If you too quickly pack this in a mental illness box, you may lose the opportunity to understand that there are other reasons why people act this way that aren't mental illness - that this is an integral part of dating.  Also, if you start seeing normal psychology as mental illness, you may start seeing signs in everyone you date that suggest that they are mentally ill and not learn how to interact.

What do you think?
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« Reply #40 on: April 21, 2015, 10:18:24 AM »

What do you think?

The experience with this girl was much differect than anything I've dealt with before. I wasn't  prepared for a lot of her behavior and that made me second guess myself at every turn. I think she started to sense that, too, which probably planted some doubt in her mind about me as a long term partner.

But I honestly don't know what to think. What you're saying sounds plausible,  though so does the BPD explanation. Whatever scuttled the relationship,  the fact remains that I was outmatched. Things went awry very quickly; I could sense it the last week but I didn't know how to right the ship in time. That's what continues to irritate me.
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« Reply #41 on: April 21, 2015, 09:43:25 PM »

Something else I just thought of:

The day before she dumped me, she called me and said she wanted more attention from me. She had cancelled our plans twice the previous week, once because she was sad about not getting her foster kids, and again because she had to pick up some work. I told over the phone that if she wanted attention she shouldn't cancel our plans, and when she did cancel our plans, that was my cue to give her some space.

She said, "Well, when you get distant that makes me what to stay away from you, too." I thought that was odd. In my experience, women tend to chase when you leave them alone for a while. I read on this site that borderlines are different; initiating distance can trigger their abandonment fears. That would explain what she said here, but it's possible I'm reading too much into her comments. Thoughts? 
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« Reply #42 on: April 21, 2015, 10:35:25 PM »

Hey Benson,

You've got a really nice discussion going on here, and I think you are starting to make some realizations about yourself and your relationship.  Keep it up!   Doing the right thing (click to insert in post)

One thing that I seem to notice is that you may think that there is a "system" or set of rules to a relationship.  That you have to do x,y,z and that will have response i,j,k.  Do you think that might be the case?  In actuality, life is much more messy than this.  There isn't a clear answer on how to proceed in a relationship.  Everyone is different and every relationship is different.  This is why communication and understanding and really trying to get to know one another is so important at the start of a relationship (and ever after!).  Sometimes, even when we know our partner really well, it can be hard to know just what they want from us, or why something that is happening in the relationship is upsetting them.  This is why we have to talk to one another.

I'm not entirely sure if you feel that fits, but I thought I'd mention it in case it helps.
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« Reply #43 on: April 21, 2015, 11:41:50 PM »

One thing that I seem to notice is that you may think that there is a "system" or set of rules to a relationship.  That you have to do x,y,z and that will have response i,j,k.  Do you think that might be the case? 

Not really. I'd say there are some principles that are generally true. For example, I think it's generally the case that women dislike needy men, though I'm sure you could find some who are exceptions to that rule. That being said, I'm trying to figure out what happened. The only way I know how to do that is to look at how she and I interacted in a given situation and then consider what the outcome was. So I could understand why my descriptions are coming across as formulaic.

Excerpt
Everyone is different and every relationship is different.

To an extent, sure. But if this were true in an absolute sense forums like this one would be pointless, because there would be no point in trying to find patterns in people's behavior.

Thanks for your input. I think you're right in the sense that my inexperience played a role in the break up, and I need to date more so I can learn how to deal with the issues that really confused me this time.

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« Reply #44 on: April 22, 2015, 12:42:09 AM »

Something else I just thought of:

The day before she dumped me, she called me and said she wanted more attention from me. She had cancelled our plans twice the previous week, once because she was sad about not getting her foster kids, and again because she had to pick up some work. I told over the phone that if she wanted attention she shouldn't cancel our plans, and when she did cancel our plans, that was my cue to give her some space.

She said, "Well, when you get distant that makes me what to stay away from you, too." I thought that was odd. In my experience, women tend to chase when you leave them alone for a while. I read on this site that borderlines are different; initiating distance can trigger their abandonment fears. That would explain what she said here, but it's possible I'm reading too much into her comments. Thoughts?  

You're not reading too much into it. I think it's a fairly safe bet to say your assumptions are correct. If borderlines so much as sense abandonment, or even perceive abandonment that doesn't exist, they'll withdraw first in order to stay in control.

I never actually got into an official relationship with this recent borderline (I dated one ten years ago), and the more she begged to be in a relationship and didn't get me to budge, the more distant she got. She started saying things like, "Well, I'm done trying. I'll still talk to you, but you're going to have to message me first from now on." Mind you, we barely knew one another, so it was perfectly reasonable for me to hold off. Borderlines are not patient people.
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« Reply #45 on: April 22, 2015, 01:33:39 AM »

Many of the characteristics point to yes. If you decide to try to go back it is a hard and inconsistent road where nothing is ever good enough and always being cornered never being able to win.

I went back after a separation with my BPD husband. I didn't know and wasn't educated on BPD until after I went back.  Not fully aware of what I was re-signing up for. My first therapist had said there was something deep rooted, it was the therapist after the move that nailed it, she having counseled and being married to a pwBPD.

Good luck! Think wise and hard and read all of these posts, people are saying very insightful things.
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« Reply #46 on: April 22, 2015, 01:34:24 AM »

Also, the more important and more they don't want to lose you, the more prominent their behaviors become. and its similar to hell on earth.
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« Reply #47 on: April 22, 2015, 08:52:31 AM »

Something else I just thought of:

The day before she dumped me, she called me and said she wanted more attention from me. She had cancelled our plans twice the previous week, once because she was sad about not getting her foster kids, and again because she had to pick up some work. I told over the phone that if she wanted attention she shouldn't cancel our plans, and when she did cancel our plans, that was my cue to give her some space.

She said, "Well, when you get distant that makes me what to stay away from you, too." I thought that was odd. In my experience, women tend to chase when you leave them alone for a while. I read on this site that borderlines are different; initiating distance can trigger their abandonment fears. That would explain what she said here, but it's possible I'm reading too much into her comments. Thoughts?  

You're not reading too much into it. I think it's a fairly safe bet to say your assumptions are correct. If borderlines so much as sense abandonment, or even perceive abandonment that doesn't exist, they'll withdraw first in order to stay in control.

The couple of posters who are skeptical about labeling my ex a borderline are making me rethink a few things. Still, I think BPD explains a lot of what happened.

Excerpt
I never actually got into an official relationship with this recent borderline (I dated one ten years ago), and the more she begged to be in a relationship and didn't get me to budge, the more distant she got. She started saying things like, "Well, I'm done trying. I'll still talk to you, but you're going to have to message me first from now on." Mind you, we barely knew one another, so it was perfectly reasonable for me to hold off. Borderlines are not patient people.

That's what really makes this experience odd--the timeline. We never went through that period where you feel each other out to make sure you want to be together. Things got serious quickly, and she expected certain things of me that I didn't know I was supposed to be doing.
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« Reply #48 on: April 22, 2015, 09:26:45 AM »

BPD could indeed by the case from what you've said, Benson.  But it's also not really possible to say for certain.  It's clear from everything that you've written that the end of this relationship has seriously affected you, and that's what's the most important here - healing from that.  I think the point that Skip and some others have tried to make, however, is that it's just not possible to know if your ex has BPD.  Even in longer term relationships, it can be hard to say.  At some point, we just have to accept that we can't be certain, and go with our best educated guess.  I know this is a very, very important question to you, and you really want to understand why the relationship ended.  I can completely understand that, and it's natural to need to know what happened.  I just don't want you to get too hung up on trying to solve the mystery, because I don't know that there is a solution.  And you aren't alone in that - many of us here don't have a diagnosis for our ex, and that leaves seeds of doubt in us.  I am the same.

I would try as much as you can to try and take the focus from whether she has BPD or not, and shift it toward why you are feeling so damaged by the end of this relationship.  It is unusual to be this shaken up by the end of a one month relationship, and there is a reason why it has affected you so much.  That is not your fault - you didn't do anything wrong here.  This is something going on below the surface.  Try shifting the focus to exploring what is going on there.  For myself, some really old wounds have been opened by the breakup with my ex due to growing up with a narcissistic mother, and my feelings of being so invisible for much of my life.  It seems likely that there is something that has been activated in you too, from the end of this relationship.
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« Reply #49 on: April 22, 2015, 09:56:26 AM »

The couple of posters who are skeptical about labeling my ex a borderline are making me rethink a few things. Still, I think BPD explains a lot of what happened.

You are most concerned about is whether you blew it or whether she is broken and it wasn't you.

The point is, that this is not a good way to process this loss.

Sure it is easier to accept that it was her brokenness - but frankly you might just not have been who she wanted - or she was not emotionally available for all the reasons we mentioned.  Or you may have done something that turned her off.  Or she may be crazy.

Can you accept this uncertainty without labeling a villain (either yourself or her)?  This is the question.

Secondly, if confronted with some of the transactions in this relationship again, how might you deal with them differently?

She said she wanted to wait at least four months to meet my family. Naturally I agreed, but she flipped out when I did. "What? You're not supposed to agree with me!" Right before we'd have sex, she would grab me by the temples and ask, "Would you hang out with me if we weren't having sex?"

So this thing about the parents was a test. Some insecurity on her part. She really wanted you to address that.  Same with the sex comment, she was starting to think that the sex got going too soon.

If you are bombarded with this type of thing in the future, how would you read it?  Respond to it?

Its insecurity. How bad was the insecurity?

As for responses... .

The first question is not unusual. "You can't meet my kids for 6 months" is awkward, but not unusual. A good response is, "being part of the family is an important part of good relationship - I want it all to be comfortable for you - no pressure".

The second question is not unusual. She is saying that the relationship seems like its all about sex. A response might be "I like you for who you are" and then cut back on the sex and go another direction - wait for her to initiate (and then your intentions are clear).

My point, is that there are lots of courting rituals and reads in the first 30-60 days that matter.

Don't miss this and bury it all a mental illness box.  Smiling (click to insert in post)

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« Reply #50 on: April 22, 2015, 08:09:42 PM »

It is unusual to be this shaken up by the end of a one month relationship, and there is a reason why it has affected you so much.  That is not your fault - you didn't do anything wrong here.  This is something going on below the surface.  Try shifting the focus to exploring what is going on there.

Your post struck a nerve. I've been thinking about it all day, and here's the best explanation I can come up with. I was very overweight and socially awkward as a kid. I had a handful of friends, but I hardly ever socialized beyond my tiny circle and girls mortified me. Losing weight in my 20s didn't fix my issues. But I was finally diagnosed with depression two years ago. I started going to therapy and taking an anti-depressant, which was really the turning point. I gradually got over my social anxiety and gained some confidence. I made new friends, pursued my passions, picked up some new hobbies and just generally felt a lot better about life.

I met the girl in question around this time, probably July of last year. I saw her whenever our group of friends got together, though I intentionally stayed distant; I didn't want to be her guy friend. But a few months later, I found out she spoke a little of the language I was learning and wanted to practice. We started meeting for coffee and to study on Fridays in November. She broke up with her boyfriend around this time and I finally asked her out for drinks a couple of weeks later. We were dating after that night.

Anyway, the point is that I worked on myself enough to pursue a girl I wouldn't have dared even talking to a couple of years ago. I was ecstatic when she reciprocated my feelings. Moreover, we bonded over a mutual hobby, and she had a lot of the qualities I wanted in a girlfriend and eventually a wife. I saw our relationship as the capstone on my self-improvement efforts and I thought it had a lot of potential. When everything fell apart so quickly, I was devastated. The rejection brought a lot of painful feelings that I had under control back to the surface. My confidence took a huge hit. I felt like an idiot for not knowing how to make the relationship work, and was embarrassed because all our friends knew what happened. Naturally, I tried to figure out what happened and get her back.

I realize now that I was idolizing her because she was filling a void in my life, and I ignored the  Red flag/bad  (click to insert in post)  that I saw along the way as a result. 

   
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« Reply #51 on: April 22, 2015, 09:04:06 PM »

That's an outstanding realization, Bensons.  I can see now why this was such an emotional experience for you, and why it has been so painful.  I'm sorry you had to go through this, and that things didn't work out with this woman.

I want you to know that this isn't your fault.  No matter if she is BPD or not, you didn't drive her away.  It's not you.  It's not something that you did, and it's certainly not because you are a bad guy.  Sometimes relationships don't work out, and sometimes there are complications we could have never envisioned.  And please don't feel badly about not seeing all the red flags.  Everyone here did the same thing.  I don't see that in a negative way at all.  Sometimes we fall for people who are troubled or have a lot of baggage.  We are human and so are they.  You saw the best in this young woman, and there's no shame in that.

I'm very sorry that your relationships didn't work out this time, but this won't always be the case.  You have a big heart - don't be afraid to show it.  You'll make a terrific boyfriend to some other woman soon enough.  Keep your chin up, Bensons.  You've really dug deep and made some very important realizations about this relationship.  And those will pay dividends in your future relationships!   Doing the right thing (click to insert in post)
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« Reply #52 on: April 22, 2015, 09:14:37 PM »

So this thing about the parents was a test. Some insecurity on her part. She really wanted you to address that.  Same with the sex comment, she was starting to think that the sex got going too soon.

But look at the way she set up the test about meeting my parents. She made it sound like the most reasonable answer--"yes, let's date a few months before involving our parents"--was the one she wanted to hear, only to turn around and complain that I agreed with her. Would you have honestly known what she was doing in this situation, and how would you have addressed her insecurity?

The first time she made the comment about seeing her without having sex, I stopped escalating, looked her in the eye and said, "of course." Then I kissed her once and waited for her to reciprocate it. We carried on once I knew she had the confirmation she needed. But she did this at least three times and I gave more or less the same answer each time. It was never enough to assuage her concerns.  

Excerpt
If you are bombarded with this type of thing in the future, how would you read it?  Respond to it?

I think I'd handle it the same way I did with her. But if I see this with the same intensity and frequency in the future, I'll probably end the relationship.

Excerpt
How bad was the insecurity?

It was terrible, constant. She was insecure about her body and my commitment to her. She'd bait me in to admitting that I missed her and that I liked something about her appearance. I realize all women want this kind of validation, and I was happy to give it when I knew that she needed it. But she needed it nearly every day. She would even bring up things she thought I wouldn't like and ask me not to judge her for them. Of course I hadn't even thought about them.

Excerpt
The first question is not unusual. "You can't meet my kids for 6 months" is awkward, but not unusual. A good response is, "being part of the family is an important part of good relationship - I want it all to be comfortable for you - no pressure".

Now go back and compare your hypothetical to what she actually said to me. If she and I were in your example, she would have said, "You're not supposed to say you don't want to meet my kids!"

Excerpt
My point, is that there are lots of courting rituals and reads in the first 30-60 days that matter.

And they were all rushed and badly distorted in this case. She wanted to meet my parents, who live six hours away, the third week in our relationship? Really? Even the other women I told about her said that was crazy.
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« Reply #53 on: April 22, 2015, 09:21:00 PM »

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The thread has reached it's post limit and is locked. You are welcome with starting a new or similar topic of discussion. Thanks.
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