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Family Court Strategies: When Your Partner Has BPD OR NPD Traits. Practicing lawyer, Senior Family Mediator, and former Licensed Clinical Social Worker with twelve years’ experience and an expert on navigating the Family Court process.
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Author Topic: Daughter wishing reconciliation  (Read 611 times)
Mutt
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« on: April 14, 2015, 12:34:39 AM »

I sense my D9 is going through some stress. It could be because there's a new baby on the way. I have notice it's more so since my ex wife is expecting that she's complained about mom's boyfriend and that she doesn't like him. That being said she says she wishes mom and dad were together.

I validate although I have not articulated the fact that mom and dad are not going to get together again. I don't know how to say it, I fear I'll hurt her feelings. Has anyone had a similar experience where a child might be fantasizing about their parents reconciling?

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« Reply #1 on: April 14, 2015, 12:48:02 AM »

When exBF and I were in MC, she let us know that it is every divorced child's (sub)conscious desire to have her/his parents reunite back to the family unit they were once familiar with.  (Even despite the fact that SD9 had memories of mom and dad not getting along) It wasn't even something SD was being obvious about, but it helped us to understand where SD could be coming from on some things.  It helped relieve dad of his guilt for not being with mom, and not providing for his D the continuity of the marriage to mom.
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« Reply #2 on: April 14, 2015, 10:52:59 AM »

Familiarity.

That makes sense.

On the other side of the coin she has made the observation that mom and dad fought a lot when we were together.

I see surface issues and she seems to hold things in.

She said "I'm happy for mom about the baby" and it felt like she left something out and wasn't sharing how she felt.

Her older sister SD16 has left home and its another loss I think. SD16 is couch surfing and close to quitting school because she's split black and has difficulties with mom's hostile behaviors directed at her.

I know that she worries about her two younger brothers and how she feels when mom's boyfriend disciplines them harshly and emotionally dysregulates; swears at them and loses his temper. He often sends S3 on time out in his room for temper tantrums. I think he has difficulties managing the kids.

I often get compliments how well behaved the kids are when they are with me from strangers in public and new friends.

She has expressed that she finds living in two homes difficult and says that she gets comfortable at one house and it's having to leave and go to another house and repeating the same routine.

If I mention anything remotely about parenting or how I find the ex partners SO's discipline and behavior harsh. She rescues him and I'm persecuted. That being said, I'm aware of the blame and manipulation in a drama triangle and stay out of it.

I have mentioned to her that if there's something that she feels to talk about and can't come to mom ir dad to go to a teacher and talk to them in school. It's an option until the kids are out for summer break. I think I need to find another neutral party for the kids.

It's frustrating that mom displays little empathy for the kids and projects and persecutes me. I'm the source of the issues post break-up.
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« Reply #3 on: April 14, 2015, 11:05:55 AM »

I understand how hard that is. But from another perspective, I will tell you that my SD6 is about once a month telling me how she wants her mom and dad back together, and for her family to be normal again.

Sometimes she tells me that they are in fact getting back together and I'm going to be out. But here's the problem with that, she has no idea what that even means. She was an infant when mom and dad split up. As well as things were pretty bad through the whole pregnancy and infancy, mom got prego to try to keep dad in relationship. He was asking to be out when surprise baby showed up.

So how much of this is her true desire and how much is what mom has lamented? How much is it just peer pressure to look like other families?

How is it she is waxing nostalgic for something she can't possibly ever remember having?

I would not worry too much about the reconciling part.

On the other hand the back and forth part I understand. My own kiddos complain about that too. We added duplicates of their things at each house, and use a very specific time and day to switch on and off and now that they are teens we go two weeks on two weeks off. They still come by for dinner on off weeks, or we pick up and take out for a night. Sometimes my ex comes here after work and eats dinner with us, but we aren't suffering from PD's (Laugh out loud (click to insert in post)).

You hear it all the time, but it's very true... .kids are resilient. Just keep doing what you are doing, love them and listen to them. Most dads wouldn't be here if you know what I mean, on this site. Most are pretty self absorbed, your daughter is a very lucky girl, I think she will be fine as long as she has you!
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« Reply #4 on: April 14, 2015, 12:14:49 PM »

When my SD was little (6-8 years old), she expressed that she wished mom and dad were still married. I don't think she realized that would me that I would be gone because she would hug me and tell me she loved me. After she got older, around 11-12, she said how when she grew up, she wanted to be rich so mom, dad and I could all live with her. At that time, I gently pointed out that mom and dad didn't get along and she thought about that for a bit and than said "Well, I could have 2 houses." Smiling (click to insert in post) She was 3 when  DH and her mom divorced, so her memories of them living together were pretty vague. Now she's an adult and is VLC with her bio mom by her own choices.
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« Reply #5 on: April 14, 2015, 04:24:13 PM »

As well as things were pretty bad through the whole pregnancy and infancy, mom got prego to try to keep dad in relationship. He was asking to be out when surprise baby showed up.

I think it's possible she got pregnant so she wouldn't be abandoned. I had not heard from her for almost two years and three months before she got pregnant she said "Mutt its been two years, it's time for you to get over it and try to be friends"

I was also low contact with her and amongst other things I get the impression she wants rescue if things don't work out. She made her bed, she can lay in it.

So how much of this is her true desire and how much is what mom has lamented? How much is it just peer pressure to look like other families?

True. I hadn't though about that.

I would not worry too much about the reconciling part.

I think your right. I'm worrying.

your daughter is a very lucky girl, I think she will be fine as long as she has you!

Thank you  Smiling (click to insert in post) I'm lucky to have her as well.

I gently pointed out that mom and dad didn't get along and she thought about that for a bit and than said "Well, I could have 2 houses." smiley

The things that come out of the mouth of babes. My S3 often mentions my ex her bf and myself. I think it's how he views his family.

It's a good suggestion. I'll mention how mom and dad didn't get along and I also didn't see that there'll be a day that this phase will be a memory and she'll likely change her perspective and views about her mom. She may very well go low contact with mom.

My SD16 is a clue on how their relationship changed over a decade. It's a possibility my kids will follow suit. Mom is very sick and needs help.
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livednlearned
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« Reply #6 on: April 14, 2015, 09:04:19 PM »

Hi Mutt,

It's hard to see our kids hurt  :'(

I did the same thing when I first left S13's dad -- softened the blow. S13 had a child psychologist who told me it was important to tell S13 that his dad and I were never going to be together. Sometimes in sessions, S13 (9 at the time) would indicate mom and dad might get back together. I had to set the record straight, and it was hard.

I learned a lot from that psychologist, and also my T. People who are codependent have a tendency to want to protect people from feeling negative feelings. That's what we do. I believe we do that because we don't like to experience negative feelings. If you grow up in a dysfunctional home, you develop very few if any skills to process difficult feelings like grief, sadness, frustration.

When you protect your D from hard truths, she cannot learn that she is strong and resilient, and that she is able to endure difficult but painful feelings. All of our kids will experience these painful feelings in their lives. They already do. They need us to show them how to lean into the feelings and then, after we have processed them, to let up.

My son is learning to do this, we have a ways to go through. He is currently being treated for depression and anxiety. He wrote an essay for school about his depression that brought me to my knees it was so painful to read. All about his parent's divorce. His current T says S13 is probably genetically predisposed toward depression (epigenetics) and that the divorce was the trigger. It could've easily been another traumatic event. While that is true, it still is extremely painful to recognize that I am part of the reason he is depressed, my choices and actions, even if it is a perception that is limited. It was far worse living together as a family. S13 -- and maybe your D -- they have two griefs to process. A broken family, and a mentally ill parent. It is devastating to experience divorce, it is perplexing and perhaps too overwhelming for a child to process mental illness.

People who suffer from BPD have higher than average needs for validation, and our kids are put in the position of validating the parent, a role reversal. So the burden to provide validation is on us, many of whom come from invalidating homes, and ended up in invalidating marriages. That's why it's on these boards so much, why experts talk about it so much. I read books that say, "If you take nothing away from this book except one thing, let it be validation." It changes the script. It is also a lot of hard work, it requires deep change. It's a skill and takes practice -- you ride your bike the first time, you might fall. A few other times, you get better. Then take it on new terrain, challenging terrain. BPD is mountainous terrain! Validating kids is somewhat easier, although never easy, in my experience.

So when your D mentions wanting her family back together, it's ok to tell her the truth. You won't be reconciling. And that's hard. It's not fair, it's painful to have parents be split up. Otherwise she engages in magical thinking, and avoids feeling the grief. I feel my son's depression was made worse because I wanted him to avoid feeling hurt, all the signs were there, I was feeding it with good intentions.

My S13 went through a tough stretch when it sank in. It cleared some of the fog, and he managed to come out ok. He is gaining confidence in his ability to get through things, and to vocalize. It amazes me he had the strength to write about his depression and bare that side of himself to his teacher. They can be mended, our kids. 

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Mutt
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« Reply #7 on: April 14, 2015, 09:40:50 PM »

People who are codependent have a tendency to want to protect people from feeling negative feelings. That's what we do. I believe we do that because we don't like to experience negative feelings. If you grow up in a dysfunctional home, you develop very few if any skills to process difficult feelings like grief, sadness, frustration.

Hi livednlearned,

You're right.

I'm protecting her feelings.

Her mom needs an emotional caretaker and the kids in the family are expected to give into her needs. Mom becomes controlling if you don't, my exSD16 is an example of that. When I set boundaries the acting out got worse. I didn't understand the role of emotional caretaker at the time

I grew up in a dysfunctional home. My mom passed when I was 8.

My dad didn't believe in T's, P's and said feelings are weakness and he's in control of his.

I couldn't process the sadness, grief and pain with the loss of a parent. I was validated that I was holding it in well.

I think the grief came later in my adolescence as anger then depression and anxiety.

I came from an invalidating home and was in an invalidating marriage. I learned validation here. I think I'll get "The Power of Validation" from Google Play.

I'll set the record straight and tell her. Mom and dad are never getting back together.

Thank you.
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livednlearned
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« Reply #8 on: April 16, 2015, 10:59:50 AM »

Another good one, maybe even better: "I Don't Have to Make Everything All Better." I think it takes validation to another level -- like using validating to get people to problem-solve for themselves. This helps us be the coach, not the rescuer, and shows our kids we know they are capable and resilient.
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Mutt
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« Reply #9 on: April 16, 2015, 11:31:41 AM »

Another good one, maybe even better: "I Don't Have to Make Everything All Better." I think it takes validation to another level -- like using validating to get people to problem-solve for themselves. This helps us be the coach, not the rescuer, and shows our kids we know they are capable and resilient.

Thanks for sharing. I booked marked both on Google Play  Smiling (click to insert in post) I'm reading through Stop Caretaking the Borderline or Narcissist.

I find I still rescue and find it difficult identifying it sometimes when it's not my ex-partner because I'm not in it anymore. She's highly dysfunctional.

For example when I feel the push / pull behavior I don't respond, I depersonalize it and ignore it. Her SO can be her emotional caretaker.

With my D and S's I feel it's subconscious and I have an urge to make things better. I had not thought of coaching.
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« Reply #10 on: April 16, 2015, 03:20:20 PM »

If I mention anything remotely about parenting or how I find the ex partners SO's discipline and behavior harsh. She rescues him and I'm persecuted. That being said, I'm aware of the blame and manipulation in a drama triangle and stay out of it.

Wait... . D9 rescues the other man, or makes excuses for his behavior, or are you talking about your ex?

LnL gave an eloquent reply. Kids need to be told the truth. I've been searching for a while on "marries affair partner kids" and aside from the blogs, psychologists agree that in almost all cases, kids need to be told the truth. Age appropriately, of course. My T said the same thing.

We may be trying to protect our kids (we'll leave what may be going through the mind of the BPD... . my Ex lied to them from the beginning and did it all wrong). However, kids feel safer and more stable if they know that their parents are being honest.

The baby is even more confusing, and it sounds like D9 is happy/sad about the new baby, but it's telling that she said that she is happy for her mom. D9 isn't responsible for her mom's feelings. From the comments of others, it seems like the dream of an intact family is something that children of divorce may carry with them for a long time.
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« Reply #11 on: April 20, 2015, 01:58:01 PM »

Mutt

Nearly every child in every divorce wants there parents back together.  I have three children and while all may want it some accept it an some dont.  Having a real family is important to most kids and no matter how bad your marriage was they saw a real family.   Usually BPD women have another relationship lined up when they leave us, and they try to get the new man to assume a father figure.  This is part of the idealization phase they have with the new man.  It usually does not last though and causes the children great distress and some of them just want there normal life back.  I have three children my middle child wants his mother and I back together and he always will.  It is a good idea to tell them that you have waited long enough for them to come back and you want to get on with your life.  But I would not say much more.
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« Reply #12 on: April 20, 2015, 04:17:14 PM »

You're right SWLSR.

My ex was trying to replace me as a father figure.

She didn't want me to have parenting time with the kids and I think she was surprised I took her to court.

I didn't understand her distress was great I didn't realize she wants her real family back regardless of how bad the marriage is. She's stated from the onset of the separation she does not like him.

I'll like your idea.

I do want to move on with life - it's been over two years.

It's frustrating and painful I have to deliver the news to my D9 because of my ex and her emotional immaturity and lack of impulse control.

Two years ago around April / May it had been maybe two months since my ex left and the school has a family BBQ and we went every year. She was excited and said there's a school BBQ and she wanted me to attend excitedly and she was in good spirits. I think she was trying to mend the family.

I was abandoned, angry and felt very depressed.

I said ":)9 we're not a family anymore"

She immediately tore up and was very sad and it was hard to see my baby girl hurt.

I'll talk to her this weekend and tell her I waited long enough for them to come back.
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« Reply #13 on: April 21, 2015, 08:46:50 AM »

You will always be her family, and mom will always be her family.  You both will be in her life forever, just not together so much.  She will now have 2 families that love her (the best they can).  She can still have a sense of continuity, in the thought that her r/s with her mom and dad, while not together anymore, has the same love and concern for her that was there always, and will continue always.
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