Forgiveness

[VIDEO: "What is parental alienation?"]

When we forgive our BPD ex, what exactly are we forgiving? If they are disordered maybe they couldn't help it yet we forgive them anyway? Who knows what actions they did out of cruelty toward us that were part of their disorder or which ones were a conscious decision of good or bad and right and wrong from another part of their being that hurt us intentionally. Is forgiveness from a distance acceptable to God? Do we call up our ex and try to have a peaceful "good luck in life to you" closure call? If we don't, is that really true forgiveness? If we forgive them from a distance and they dial our number one day, do we ignore the call because of the past toxic abuse inflicted on us and for the defense of it happening again? We both have not spoken one word to each other since she abandoned the marriage.

I understand forgiveness from a biblical perspective, but this to me is almost becoming overwelming in trying to find any peace with it. I would like peace. I thought I actually had it until recently.

I would greatly appreciate anyone's opinions on this. Whether it be from a Christian perspective or not.

An hour ago I was listening to a Christian music station and I heard a song about forgiveness. An overwelming urge came to call her to try to get a peaceful closure to our marriage having ended. Instead of calling I posted this.

[AwakenedOne]

When we forgive our BPD ex, what exactly are we forgiving? If they are disordered maybe they couldn't help it yet we forgive them anyway? Who knows what actions they did out of cruelty toward us that were part of their disorder or which ones were a conscious decision of good or bad and right and wrong from another part of their being that hurt us intentionally. Is forgiveness from a distance acceptable to God? Do we call up our ex and try to have a peaceful "good luck in life to you" closure call? If we don't, is that really true forgiveness? If we forgive them from a distance and they dial our number one day, do we ignore the call because of the past toxic abuse inflicted on us and for the defense of it happening again? We both have not spoken one word to each other since she abandoned the marriage.

I understand forgiveness from a biblical perspective, but this to me is almost becoming overwelming in trying to find any peace with it. I would like peace. I thought I actually had it until recently.

I would greatly appreciate anyone's opinions on this. Whether it be from a Christian perspective or not.

An hour ago I was listening to a Christian music station and I heard a song about forgiveness. An overwelming urge came to call her to try to get a peaceful closure to our marriage having ended. Instead of calling I posted this.

[fromheeltoheal]

Borderlines are not responsible for their disorder but they are responsible for their behaviors.  

We forgive someone for us, not for them.

Forgiveness is an action, and the act of forgiving is letting go of what you feel another owes you.

Forgiveness is optional too, and the best revenge is a life well lived.  It's all about what feels best and gives us the most peace in our own heads and hearts.

[Sunfl0wer]

I think many here have many different thoughts on this.

I was feeling odd at the way things ended.  While I know that many here promote NC to help detach, this was not what I felt best for me, although I can see why it is for others.

I think I was left feeling what you are.  I felt that things sort of stopped in the middle of the movie and the movie had no ending.  This feeling bugged me more than a bad ending. 

My ex and I still had some property to exchange, and in doing this... .we were clearly uncertain how to interact... .being mostly silent and awkward.  I took initiative to start speaking on friendly terms during these necessary exchanges.  Not more than was needed, but enough to repair the elephant in the room feeling.  I'm glad I did this because now we can pass one another if we had to with less tension.  It was as though we were both on edge... .waiting for the other to establish the state of things and that limbo feeling was awful. 

I then felt comfortable enough to send him a text.  I let him know that I felt odd for the lack of closure... .some other simple words... .and that I wished him well.  He texted back "Thank you for the well wishes." And that was about it.  (There was also a small bitter banter in there somewhere too... .but not a biggie... .no harm). This made me feel like I closed a door behind me after leaving a room.  I'm glad this worked for me.

I think though, this is a tricky area.  I am sure our ex's are at different degrees on a spectrum.  Some use any opening to lure or punish.  I think the reason I did not get pulled into either getting punished or lured is my ex is mild N/BPD.  He is narcissistic first... .less impulsive as a BPD person may be. His appearance of exiting the r/s being the good guy is of utmost importance to him vs manipulating me.

[Mutt]

Hi AwakenedOne,

I think fromheeltoheal summarizes it well and I'd like to echo him.

I would also like to say that my ex had sent an email about 3 or maybe 4 months back and said that she forgave me. There's more to the e-mail than that and it was the gist of it.

I think that she wanted my forgiveness and for me it certainly not something that I feel like I needed to hear from her or that I need to vocalize to her. I'm non practicing and I don't know what forgiveness is in biblical terms.

I forgave myself first and I forgave her in my heart. It's something that was personal to me.

I'm hearing two things. Are you struggling with closure or forgiveness or both?

[gomez_addams]

My sponsor in a 12-step group told me that, "Everyone is spiritually sick. Pray for them. It becomes easier to forgive, and harder to hold on to resentments."

And it has worked in the past, both for forgiving folks who wronged me, and for forgiving myself for my role in the problems. Which, in all honesty, is a large part of many of my resentment issues. I don't set boundaries well, and get walked all over. I am resentful of the stbx uBPDw, but also mad at myself for not knowing what to do, or not having patience/strength to carry it out.

Years ago I prayed daily that an ex-gf would "have good things happen to her, and be truly happy and content in life." She hasn't crossed my mind since (except to recall how I got over how she treated me).

Right now I'm focused on damage control while ending the marriage... .But the minute the decree is signed and the checks are deposited, I'm going to pray that great things happen to her. And I know eventually I'll be free -- from her abuse, and criticism of myself for how I mishandled stressful situations I was unprepared for.

Gomez

[ZeusRLX]

To me it's NOT about them, it's about ME.

It's whatever makes me feel at peace. The only reason for forgiving them would be for us not to harbor these negative feelings which keep poisoning our lives. But that is our choice.

Lately, for me forgiveness doesn't even come into play here because in order for me to forgive them I need to be somehow offended by them in the first place.

And I'm not hurt/offended because this is BPD... .if you get involved with someone with BPD, this is what happens. So I don't take it personally but just cut them and every reference of them out of my life and harbor no ill will at any point towards them, just indifference.

And I think that is the goal... .indifference. So if forgiving them gives you peace, do it.

If you don't care, then don't forgive them.

I can't say I have forgiven them in the sense that I think what they did is okay. It's not and never will be.

But I harbor no ill will towards them or hurt feelings of any kind. I don't take it personally, this is what happens when you get involved with one of them, that's just how it is.

[Irish Pride]

When we forgive our BPD ex, what exactly are we forgiving? If they are disordered maybe they couldn't help it yet we forgive them anyway? Who knows what actions they did out of cruelty toward us that were part of their disorder or which ones were a conscious decision of good or bad and right and wrong from another part of their being that hurt us intentionally. Is forgiveness from a distance acceptable to God? Do we call up our ex and try to have a peaceful "good luck in life to you" closure call? If we don't, is that really true forgiveness? If we forgive them from a distance and they dial our number one day, do we ignore the call because of the past toxic abuse inflicted on us and for the defense of it happening again? We both have not spoken one word to each other since she abandoned the marriage.

I understand forgiveness from a biblical perspective, but this to me is almost becoming overwelming in trying to find any peace with it. I would like peace. I thought I actually had it until recently.

I would greatly appreciate anyone's opinions on this. Whether it be from a Christian perspective or not.

An hour ago I was listening to a Christian music station and I heard a song about forgiveness. An overwelming urge came to call her to try to get a peaceful closure to our marriage having ended. Instead of calling I posted this.

fromheeltoheal hit the nail on the head, but, for me, it was two-fold.

1. I forgave her for her part in it. She was/is definitely aware of her disorder and I tried to help her with it, but only those that want to help themselves can be helped.

2. I forgave myself for MY part in this. It takes two to tango and I simply cannot lay all the blame on her front door. As much as I think she's aware of her disorder, so was I to mine (CoD). Denial isn't just a river in Egypt. As easy as it was for my to deny my disorder, I'm sure it's just as easy for her to deny hers.

Knowing that I played a crucial part in the toxic tango we danced, I simply cannot, and will not, blame her. In fact, I'm actually thankful what happened, happened. I'm not so sure that, if I hadn't been involved in such a toxic, destructive relationship, that I would've had the initiative to dig deep about myself and come to the conclusions I have. For that, I thank her. I pity her and sincerely hope that, someday, she embraces the fact she has a disorder and takes the necessary steps to fix herself. I hope that, someday, she finds true happiness. And that's about the extent of my true feelings for her, now.

[Panda39]

Forgiveness is the intentional and voluntary process by which a victim undergoes a change in feelings and attitude regarding an offense, lets go of negative emotions such as vengefulness, with an increased ability to wish the offender well.

I think the above is accurate.  For a very long time I couldn't understand "forgiveness" you hear it in the news all the time... .I forgive the murderer who killed my child... .I forgive the thief that stole from me... . I could never understand how or even why someone would forgive in situations like that.  Murder is wrong, stealing is wrong.  As someone said earlier I was confusing condoning with forgiving.

At 47 Years old I learned the meaning of forgiveness by giving it.

As a 16 year old I fell in love, this young man and I grew up together, continued our relationship through college (separate locations), continued our relationship into our mid 20's we were together almost 10 years.  He was the love of my life and the man I wanted to marry and expected to marry.

Then he cheated the one "unforgivable" thing he could do to me and he knew it. I kicked him out of my house and didn't see him again.  For at least a year I suffered a broken heart and stuffed all my feelings for him. Who wanted to hear about it?  Who would I tell because the love of my life was also my best friend.

This one event I believe changed the course of my life for 19 years.  About a year and 1/2 after our break up I met someone else in June, began dating in July and finally got engaged in August.  He was my rebound man and I married him simply because he asked, I was 26 and not getting any younger!  Turns out I married an alcoholic but I stayed in my marriage... .you guessed it I was a co-dependent enabler.

But the biggest part in my making all of these decisions was I had Zero self esteem I allowed the break up from that early relationship to crush my self esteem utterly & love? what's love? Can't trust love! I made a series of bad decisions that finally led to depression.

About 17 years into my marriage I started climbing back up the depression hole... .started doing some things for me, for my health and for my soul.  

One of many things I did was reach out to family & friends.  I had the contact information on that young man from so many years ago and I called him.  We talked about the usual things our jobs our families etc.  Then somewhere in this conversation he told me what I had meant to him all of those years ago, that he wouldn't be the man he was without me, that he had loved me.  I felt like the grinch who's heart grew 3 times that day.  His comments triggered a year long breakdown and breakthroughs.  I always knew that I loved him but I stuffed it and in letting the love out right on it's heels followed hurt, anger, grief and disappointment all things I wasn't even conscious of feeling.  

At this time I had a dream with him and I in it just hanging out talking about old times.  I woke up and knew that if I wanted to have any type of friendship with him I would need to forgive him for hurting me so long ago.  I honestly, truely from the bottom of my heart forgave him. I thought I was forgiving him for him but something I didn't expect happened.  In forgiving him I freed myself from all the pain I carried around for years.  In forgiving him I was finally no longer stuck in the past.  In forgiving him I reclaimed myself worth.  In forgiving him I came to understand the abandonment I felt.  In forgiving him I realized our break up wasn't my fault.

In 2009 I dropped enough baggage to fill a storage container!  

I finally left my marriage and that turned out to be the best thing for all of us my son, my ex and me.  My son who was living with an alcoholic dad and depressed mom was now living with a health happy mom who was modeling a healthy life.  My ex had his 3rd DUI following our divorce, lost his job, driver's license and his retirement (for lawyer and court fees).  He hit rock bottom (no co-dependent enabler there to "manage" him any more).  He finally understood he is an alcoholic and has been sober the last 3 years.  Now my son can also be proud of his dad too.

I will always love that young man from my past both in spite of the things he's done and because of the things he's done.  I'm proud of my ex too for making changes and good choices.  What I'm most happy about is that I am free of them both and have a healed heart, a healed self image, healed capacity to trust, and the ability to love fully.

I have since met a lovely man that I'm crazy about, who is a partner to me, who is supportive, and caring.  I finally recognize and have the love I deserve.  Now if we could only do something about his uBPDxw  

Above is my post from another thread about forgiveness about 6mos ago.  I had a hard time understanding it and now have a hard time explaining it other than to tell my story.  I also want to add that I never told that young man from the past that I forgave him.  In my case it was an internal forgiveness a shift in how I felt and a letting go of all the pain I stuffed and carried for 20 years. 

I hope my story helps 

[fromheeltoheal]

I forgave myself for MY part in this. It takes two to tango and I simply cannot lay all the blame on her front door. As much as I think she's aware of her disorder, so was I to mine (CoD). Denial isn't just a river in Egypt. As easy as it was for my to deny my disorder, I'm sure it's just as easy for her to deny hers.

Yes.  The most important person to forgive is ourselves.  And sometimes the most difficult.

[Irish Pride]

I forgave myself for MY part in this. It takes two to tango and I simply cannot lay all the blame on her front door. As much as I think she's aware of her disorder, so was I to mine (CoD). Denial isn't just a river in Egypt. As easy as it was for my to deny my disorder, I'm sure it's just as easy for her to deny hers.

Yes.  The most important person to forgive is ourselves.  And sometimes the most difficult.

Agreed, brother. I just wish others would come to the same conclusion. I see so many in pain, beating themselves up, on this forum. I truly wish there was something I could do, to ease their pain. But it simply comes down to this.

Accept what happened. Accept YOUR role in it. Accept their role in it. Accept that it's OVER. Learn from your mistakes and try to prevent it from ever happening again. But don't beat yourself up over it. Understand why you did what you did, accept what happened, and move on. You're better than this. You're meant for better things than this. Don't let what happened control you and mold into something you don't want to be. Don't put yourself on the cross, but don't put them on it, either. Inform/enlighten yourself about what happened. Accept it and know that you're meant for bigger and better things in life. Turn it into a learning experience. Turn it into anything but some massive blight on your existence.

Just understand you're human and you've made mistakes. But, mistakes can be learned from. This is why we study History in school. Those that don't learn from the past are doomed to repeat it.

[UserName69]

I see so many in pain, beating themselves up, on this forum. I truly wish there was something I could do, to ease their pain.

I totally agree with Irish Pride. People need to keep themselves busy with activities they enjoy and they need to accept their fate. This is the only way to get over your ex girlfriend.

It didn't took me too long to get over my exBPD because I accepted the fact that it's never going to work, and I knew there are so many girls out there who're way better compared to her. I don't have contact with her, there is nothing that reminds me of her, everyday I'm busy so I have no time to think about her, now I do realize how bad everything was. I'm really having the time of my life now while her life is a complete mess. Since the breakup only good things have happened to me, I even met a new girl. She's very religious and when I started to hang around with her I really started to think about my religion I started to pray more I became more religious than before. You know I'm so happy that my exBPD treated me so bad, thanks to her I'm having so much fun.

Even if she found a replacement her new relationship will be a disaster again. Just let her spend "quality" time with her new bf. Soon or late they're going to fight. One day she's going to meet the wrong person and he'll probably is going to beat her up.

Will I forgive her? No I simply won't because I know she did this to her ex she was with before she chose me, she'll do this to her new boyfriend too. I don't love her anymore in fact I really hate her. I know this goes against any values of any religion but that's the way I feel about her.

[going places]

When we forgive our BPD ex, what exactly are we forgiving?

Forgiveness is for you, not the person who has committed the offense.

www.amazon.com/How-Forgive-When-You-Cant/dp/098243071X/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1432555182&sr=8-1&keywords=how+to+forgive+when+you+can%27t

This book was a HUGE help for me.

If they are disordered maybe they couldn't help it yet we forgive them anyway?

You are not responsible for their actions, period, ever.

You are only responsible for how you react.

Forgiveness is for you... .

Who knows what actions they did out of cruelty toward us that were part of their disorder or which ones were a conscious decision of good or bad and right and wrong from another part of their being that hurt us intentionally. Is forgiveness from a distance acceptable to God?

It is Commanded by God.

And it is for 'us' and for our relationship with Him.

It's letting go of the offender and their offense, allowing God room to handle it, and allowing us, the offended, to strengthen our relationship with Him; Peace, Joy and a clean heart are the result.

Do we call up our ex and try to have a peaceful "good luck in life to you" closure call?

No.

Forgiveness is between us and God.

If we don't, is that really true forgiveness?

Yes.

It is an act of letting go of the need for vengance, punishment, and condemnation of the offender, freeing US from the burden of the making them pay.

Forgiveness is the act of "putting down the bottle of poison we keep drinking hoping it will harm them".

It purifies US.

If we forgive them from a distance and they dial our number one day, do we ignore the call because of the past toxic abuse inflicted on us and for the defense of it happening again? We both have not spoken one word to each other since she abandoned the marriage.

Yes.

Forgiveness does not mean we roll out the 'abuse mat' for all to walk on over and over.

I understand forgiveness from a biblical perspective, but this to me is almost becoming overwelming in trying to find any peace with it. I would like peace. I thought I actually had it until recently.

I would greatly appreciate anyone's opinions on this. Whether it be from a Christian perspective or not.

An hour ago I was listening to a Christian music station and I heard a song about forgiveness. An overwelming urge came to call her to try to get a peaceful closure to our marriage having ended. Instead of calling I posted this.

Good.

The offender does not need to know 'we have forgiven'.

That is between us, and God.

[Trog]

In forgiving her like she's a non I suppose. Because in her mind she's done nothing to forgive. Everything is my fault.

The reality then is im forgiving myself, for trying to make something work with a mentally ill person, for betraying my own boundaries again and again - im forgiving myself for the lack of self love that brought me to her in the first place.

I am closer to 'forgiveness' than ever. I think she's a dangerous person for me to be around but I can forgive it in principle as long as she stays away. The more I think about it the more I think it's right that what we will end up doing is a) forgiving ourselves b) accepting they are mentally ill and c) with that recognition keep away from them and then d) do the work we need to do on ourselves to attract real love and heal.

Im starting to wonder how much any of this is about the BPD person at all. They are a trigger or a mirror only, anyone with sensible boundaries would have walked away as soon as the red flags showed.

[UserName69]

Forgiveness is between us and God.

There are two different sins, the sins between you and God and the sins between you and a human/animal.

[going places]

Forgiveness is between us and God.

There are two different sins, the sins between you and God and the sins between you and a human/animal.

I don't understand?

[UserName69]

Forgiveness is between us and God.

There are two different sins, the sins between you and God and the sins between you and a human/animal.

I don't understand?

A sin between you and a human:

- Let's say slapped someone and you had no good reason for it do it. This is a sin, on judgement day you'll get confronted. If this person forgives you then you won't get punished for this sin, if he doesn't you'll get punished.

A sin between you and God:

- Let's say if you got involved in black magic (witchcraft). This is one of the biggest sin a believer can commit because of all the satanic rituals. This is a sin between you and God, you decided to become a soldier of the devil so there are no humans involved (except when you perform black magic on someone). If one really feels guilty about a sin he commit God will forgive him.

Just let your ex go, soon or late she/he will get punished. If they don't get their punishment in this life they will in the other life. For an example the life of my BPDex is an entire mess, she has a lot of debts and if she doesn't find a job soon she's risking to lose her house. She's an alcohol abuser once I asked her why she drinks a lot she told me that she has a lot of problems, I've told her if you have problems you should ask God for help. Drinking will make things only worse, she got upset. If she want's to live like that it's her decision. Even when I've told her the story about prophet Job she still didn't change. You can read that story here: www.en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Job_%28biblical_figure%29

[jhkbuzz]

I don't know if this will help, but I'd like to share a personal story.

About 20 years ago I was in a quasi r/s with a woman who I now suspect was a pwBPD. We were sort of "friends", sort of "more"; things were boundary-less (surprise!) and the way things ended was very hurtful - she appeared malicious to me, and broke up a long term friendship I had.

I struggled with the pain - and forgiveness - for a long time.  I became involved in a church so I was aware of my need to forgive, but I wasn't sure what that looked like or how to "do" it.

I don't know why, but one day I started thinking about the idea (in Christian thought) that we will all eventually stand before God. I suddenly vividly pictured her standing before God, giving an accounting of her life - including how dreadfully she treated me. As I watched I had a thought: "Would I want God to condemn her for the things she did to me?" The answer that immediately sprang from my heart was "NO!  Please forgive her, I release her." I realized then that if I truly had the power to condemn her for her actions towards me, I wouldn't.  I've fallen short many, many times in my life - hurt people unintentionally and intentionally, and have the same need for forgiveness as she. So I let it go, and I didn't struggle with forgiveness after that day.

Christianity often gets a bad rap - but I sometimes encourage people to look at the example that Jesus Christ set in the way he actually lived his life.  On the cross and dying, he looked down at those who had caused him unimaginable suffering and said, "Forgive them Father, for they know not what they do."

I think about that ^ verse a lot these days.

[UserName69]

I'm not a Christian but we have so many things in common (that's why I mentioned the difference between the two sins). Forgiveness is one of them, but what's forgiveness? Lets say if you ex contacts you and she want's you back, she begs for a new chance. Would you go back to her? If you don't then it seems like you didn't forgive her. So from her point of view you're still angry and don't want to forgive her. I think it's more complex than it looks. My father always used to talk about forgiveness, he always told me that I you need to be a helpful person towards everyone one of the things he spoke of a lot was that you never should keep anger inside you just forgive people. Before he passed away he told us that he has forgiven everybody. I know how important this is but with some people it's really impossible. You should learn from your mistake/sins, whats the point if someone repeats them over and over?

I'm already over her it has been like one month we broke up, but before we broke I didn't love her anymore. I guess thats one of the factors that made things easy for me. One other factor was a girl I met longtime ago, I met her two months before we broke up. She supported me a lot, thanks to her I started to become more religious. Maybe this relationship was a test of God? Who knows.

[fromheeltoheal]

Forgiveness is one of them, but what's forgiveness? Lets say if you ex contacts you and she want's you back, she begs for a new chance. Would you go back to her? If you don't then it seems like you didn't forgive her. So from her point of view you're still angry and don't want to forgive her.  

I think it's more complex than it looks. My father always used to talk about forgiveness, he always told me that I you need to be a helpful person towards everyone one of the things he spoke of a lot was that you never should keep anger inside you just forgive people.

And from another angle: forgiveness does not mean doing things you don't want to do because someone else wants you to, that's more like codependency with weak boundaries.  The most important person to forgive is ourselves, first for letting disempowering people into our lives, and then for the behaviors we exhibited under duress.  We know we've forgiven someone when memories of them rest benignly in our psyche, the emotion has dissipated, and we've let go of what we thought they owed us.  Forgiveness is for us.  

[Achaya]

fromheeltoheal hit the nail on the head, but, for me, it was two-fold.

1. I forgave her for her part in it. She was/is definitely aware of her disorder and I tried to help her with it, but only those that want to help themselves can be helped.

2. I forgave myself for MY part in this. It takes two to tango and I simply cannot lay all the blame on her front door. As much as I think she's aware of her disorder, so was I to mine (CoD). Denial isn't just a river in Egypt. As easy as it was for my to deny my disorder, I'm sure it's just as easy for her to deny hers.

Irish, your point #2 above really rings a bell with me. I was very aware of my CoD before I got involved with my ex, and I also knew she had BPD. I have had a lot more difficulty forgiving myself than I have her. I feel guilty about taking on the role of emotional leader in the relationship and probably dominating her, albeit in a velvet glove sort of way. That is undoubtedly why she was attracted to me, and my leadership was what she wanted for a number of years, but I think she felt suffocated in the end. I don't want to continue setting up unequal relationships, and I regret having done it again. I want to turn your comment about denial around---if she could deny her disorder and how destructive it is to others so also could I. I feel like I've been in a prolonged dream and am finally waking up. Someday I believe I will be sincerely grateful that she left me.

[dobie]

Indifference is what I'm hoping for ... .

Forgiveness is for people who ask , she does not deserve forgiveness because she thinks her behaviours are justified and acceptable and will continue to treat others that way . by my forgiving her I am saying there is no consequences or need to atone for your behaviours .

God forgives when we ask if she wants mine she can ask as she does not I'm not going to .

I need to forgive myself first for allowing myself to be used and treated like that

[fromheeltoheal]

Forgiveness is for people who ask , she does not deserve forgiveness because she thinks her behaviours are justified and acceptable and will continue to treat others that way . by my forgiving her I am saying there is no consequences or need to atone for your behaviours .

That's one way to look at it dobie, and does forgiveness need to have anything to do with her?

[Achaya]

Hi Awakened One,

When my ex left me I asked her to meet me to say good-bye (she broke up via a note). I had the opportunity then to convey to my ex that I hold no ill will against her, and it helped me a lot. The decision regarding whether or not to contact your pwBPD is a tricky one, but I think if you are clear in advance about what you need to say and why you need to say it, it can be helpful to communicate. It is probably important to not be too invested in getting any particular response from her if you decide to do that.

What I did after my partner of 5 years discarded me was to first think about whether I agreed with her decision. It might have been easier in some ways to be angry and blame her for leaving me, but I had to admit that the relationship had been painful for me for a long time. I wanted to work on it, but as i finally learned, my ex did not even know what that meant. I don't know if we could have kept our relationship even if she had agreed to work on it. Maybe we would have discovered that she never really loved me in a normal way, or maybe I would have found that I was more in love with her potential than her actuality. She deprived us both of that understanding when she left so abruptly. Nevertheless, if she wasn't able or willing to work on the relationship, she made the correct decision for both of us when she ended it.

What I told her during the breakup was that I was disappointed that we did not try to work things out. I also told her that I agreed with her decision to end the relationship and held no anger against her for doing it. I told her I had concluded that she wasn't the right partner for me, because I need a stable emotional commitment and she couldn't give me one. I later also gently confronted her about whether her hot/cold pattern with me and final discard was the same as what she had done with previous partners and she readily admitted it was.

I have been greatly helped by the fact that I was able to say all these things to my ex. Not everyone has the opportunity to have this kind of conversation during a breakup, and afterwards, it is hard to discern whether to initiate one.

Regarding telling someone you forgive them, doesn't that imply that they did something wrong? My ex expressed a lot of guilt and self-criticism for abandoning me, so I felt she could benefit from hearing that I did not blame her for leaving. I don't know if your ex thinks she did anything wrong. If she doesn't, she might feel attacked by your offer of forgiveness. Maybe you want to express some anger towards her, which could probably also happen, but that is a different feeling from forgiveness. My ex is at times more able to accept responsibility for her destructive behaviors than are some other pwBPD, at least from what I have read on these boards. If she didn't have this strength (and she doesn't always have it), I could not have said the things I did during our last meeting , and she couldn't have accepted what I said. I was in fact very fearful at the time that she would turn on me and paint me black.

Regarding my ex's individual accountability, I think she has some but it is obviously limited. The on/off, hot/cold pattern of our relationship matched very well the pattern of most of the other relationships described by the people posting here. It also matched very well my ex's pattern with all her previous partners, according to her. My understanding is that she controlled our relationship by controlling the distance between us, but that all people with BPD do this, so wasn't it primarily the disorder controlling our relationship?  



 

[myself]

Forgiveness is another word for acceptance.

Another way to clear some obstacles from the path.

Mostly for ourselves, but the effects can ripple out.

[Irish Pride]

fromheeltoheal hit the nail on the head, but, for me, it was two-fold.

1. I forgave her for her part in it. She was/is definitely aware of her disorder and I tried to help her with it, but only those that want to help themselves can be helped.

2. I forgave myself for MY part in this. It takes two to tango and I simply cannot lay all the blame on her front door. As much as I think she's aware of her disorder, so was I to mine (CoD). Denial isn't just a river in Egypt. As easy as it was for my to deny my disorder, I'm sure it's just as easy for her to deny hers.

Irish, your point #2 above really rings a bell with me. I was very aware of my CoD before I got involved with my ex, and I also knew she had BPD. I have had a lot more difficulty forgiving myself than I have her. I feel guilty about taking on the role of emotional leader in the relationship and probably dominating her, albeit in a velvet glove sort of way. That is undoubtedly why she was attracted to me, and my leadership was what she wanted for a number of years, but I think she felt suffocated in the end. I don't want to continue setting up unequal relationships, and I regret having done it again. I want to turn your comment about denial around---if she could deny her disorder and how destructive it is to others so also could I. I feel like I've been in a prolonged dream and am finally waking up. Someday I believe I will be sincerely grateful that she left me.

I wasn't. I mean, I was semi-aware that something was amiss about myself and that she had some issues, but I had no clue as to the depth of her disorder, nor my own. That's the beauty in this. Knowledge truly is power. Had it not been for the wild roller coaster ride, my heart and soul being shattered into a zillion pieces, I don't think I'd ever have found out the extremely important things I have about myself. I used to truly think that I was being "punished" for some past sin, or whatever. That somebody "up there" didn't like me. I don't feel that way, anymore. Now, I think I was meant to meet her, to be with her, so that I could learn what I have. I'm grateful to have met her, grateful for what I've gone through, and I'm grateful for a second chance at a fulfilling, truly happy life. Maybe for the first time, ever.

I completely understand where you're coming from as far as being able to forgive yourself for your role in what happened. Give it time. You will. Do as much reading about CoD as you can and learn from it. Same thing goes for the 5 stages of detachment. The best advice I can offer is to simply read, and research, until you feel you have a firm grasp. For me, I read, almost non-stop, for days about BPD. Learned why they do what they do, how it affects those involved with them (both romantically and platonically) and what their thinking processes are. Then I read up about the 5 stages of detachment. But none of it really clicked until I found out I was CoD. Then, everything fell into place. I read (still am reading) and researched that and had LONG conversations with myself. Once I truly accepted who she is, who I am, and understood both our roles in the relationship... .it was VERY easy to forgive her.

I want to show some of you a different side of the story and I hope this makes sense. Of course, some of our stories are different, but if you're CoD, maybe this will put things in a different light.

I helped enable her. I didn't set up proper boundaries. In fact, I may have made things worse for her. I'll never know for sure, or if it's possible, but I sure as hell didn't help her in her disorder. But, I forgave myself because I wasn't fully aware. Not like I am now. Am I a bad person because of my own... .ignorance... .about MY disorder? I don't think I am. I've read, several times, how BPD's should "know" that they have a disorder by the list of failed relationships, their lifestyle, etc. I'm 42 years old and I'm single. My list isn't too spectacular, either. I moved 1500 miles from home to live in a state for my ex-wife (it's where she's originally from). After my divorce, I moved almost 40 miles from where I used to live to be with my BPDx. Guess I didn't learn my lesson from the last relationship. My BPDx even TOLD ME she thought I was CoD. But, I didn't listen. To her, to myself, to my therapist, to anyone. But I don't consider myself a bad person because the clues were staring me right in the face the whole time. It's called denial and everyone's done it, at one point in their life. Until I was truly ready to accept the facts, and change them, well... .it's much easier to ignore the problem than it is to face it. Why would it not be the same for someone with BPD? To me, it is. Once I came to these conclusions, it was VERY easy to forgive her and myself. We just didn't know better, denied it, were stubborn about it. Just remember that, although they definitely had their part to play in your relationship, so did you.

Trust me when I say that, once you forgive, life gets SO much better. If not them, then at least yourself. No more blame. No more finger pointing. No more animosity. It's a massive weight that comes off your shoulders. You're no longer burdened with the excess baggage of "what if", "what could've been", "if only". It simply just IS, now. That's when true healing begins and you can fully concentrate on you.  

[Trog]

Forgiveness is for people who ask , she does not deserve forgiveness because she thinks her behaviours are justified and acceptable and will continue to treat others that way . by my forgiving her I am saying there is no consequences or need to atone for your behaviours .

That's one way to look at it dobie, and does forgiveness need to have anything to do with her?

Any forgiveness is for you Dobie and you don't need to tell her anything about it. I know you're still in a painful part of the healing and I was there for 4 months or so, I can not tell you the relief you feel when you stop looking at her and start to look at your part in it. Why? Because when u r with a BPD you can't control anything, she controlled almost everything about my life and nothing made sense! When you focus on yourself you finally have the chance to take control. You can never control her beliefs or change what she did and being stuck on her just creates more pain. Turn the power onto you and forgive yourself - it's really not about forgiving her

[jhkbuzz]

Forgiveness is for people who ask , she does not deserve forgiveness because she thinks her behaviours are justified and acceptable and will continue to treat others that way . by my forgiving her I am saying there is no consequences or need to atone for your behaviours .

That's one way to look at it dobie, and does forgiveness need to have anything to do with her?

Any forgiveness is for you Dobie and you don't need to tell her anything about it. I know you're still in a painful part of the healing and I was there for 4 months or so, I can not tell you the relief you feel when you stop looking at her and start to look at your part in it. Why? Because when u r with a BPD you can't control anything, she controlled almost everything about my life and nothing made sense! When you focus on yourself you finally have the chance to take control. You can never control her beliefs or change what she did and being stuck on her just creates more pain. Turn the power onto you and forgive yourself - it's really not about forgiving her

AMEN! 

[Trog]

fromheeltoheal hit the nail on the head, but, for me, it was two-fold.

1. I forgave her for her part in it. She was/is definitely aware of her disorder and I tried to help her with it, but only those that want to help themselves can be helped.

2. I forgave myself for MY part in this. It takes two to tango and I simply cannot lay all the blame on her front door. As much as I think she's aware of her disorder, so was I to mine (CoD). Denial isn't just a river in Egypt. As easy as it was for my to deny my disorder, I'm sure it's just as easy for her to deny hers.

Irish, your point #2 above really rings a bell with me. I was very aware of my CoD before I got involved with my ex, and I also knew she had BPD. I have had a lot more difficulty forgiving myself than I have her. I feel guilty about taking on the role of emotional leader in the relationship and probably dominating her, albeit in a velvet glove sort of way. That is undoubtedly why she was attracted to me, and my leadership was what she wanted for a number of years, but I think she felt suffocated in the end. I don't want to continue setting up unequal relationships, and I regret having done it again. I want to turn your comment about denial around---if she could deny her disorder and how destructive it is to others so also could I. I feel like I've been in a prolonged dream and am finally waking up. Someday I believe I will be sincerely grateful that she left me.

I wasn't. I mean, I was semi-aware that something was amiss about myself and that she had some issues, but I had no clue as to the depth of her disorder, nor my own. That's the beauty in this. Knowledge truly is power. Had it not been for the wild roller coaster ride, my heart and soul being shattered into a zillion pieces, I don't think I'd ever have found out the extremely important things I have about myself. I used to truly think that I was being "punished" for some past sin, or whatever. That somebody "up there" didn't like me. I don't feel that way, anymore. Now, I think I was meant to meet her, to be with her, so that I could learn what I have. I'm grateful to have met her, grateful for what I've gone through, and I'm grateful for a second chance at a fulfilling, truly happy life. Maybe for the first time, ever.

I completely understand where you're coming from as far as being able to forgive yourself for your role in what happened. Give it time. You will. Do as much reading about CoD as you can and learn from it. Same thing goes for the 5 stages of detachment. The best advice I can offer is to simply read, and research, until you feel you have a firm grasp. For me, I read, almost non-stop, for days about BPD. Learned why they do what they do, how it affects those involved with them (both romantically and platonically) and what their thinking processes are. Then I read up about the 5 stages of detachment. But none of it really clicked until I found out I was CoD. Then, everything fell into place. I read (still am reading) and researched that and had LONG conversations with myself. Once I truly accepted who she is, who I am, and understood both our roles in the relationship... .it was VERY easy to forgive her.

I want to show some of you a different side of the story and I hope this makes sense. Of course, some of our stories are different, but if you're CoD, maybe this will put things in a different light.

I helped enable her. I didn't set up proper boundaries. In fact, I may have made things worse for her. I'll never know for sure, or if it's possible, but I sure as hell didn't help her in her disorder. But, I forgave myself because I wasn't fully aware. Not like I am now. Am I a bad person because of my own... .ignorance... .about MY disorder? I don't think I am. I've read, several times, how BPD's should "know" that they have a disorder by the list of failed relationships, their lifestyle, etc. I'm 42 years old and I'm single. My list isn't too spectacular, either. I moved 1500 miles from home to live in a state for my ex-wife (it's where she's originally from). After my divorce, I moved almost 40 miles from where I used to live to be with my BPDx. Guess I didn't learn my lesson from the last relationship. My BPDx even TOLD ME she thought I was CoD. But, I didn't listen. To her, to myself, to my therapist, to anyone. But I don't consider myself a bad person because the clues were staring me right in the face the whole time. It's called denial and everyone's done it, at one point in their life. Until I was truly ready to accept the facts, and change them, well... .it's much easier to ignore the problem than it is to face it. Why would it not be the same for someone with BPD? To me, it is. Once I came to these conclusions, it was VERY easy to forgive her and myself. We just didn't know better, denied it, were stubborn about it. Just remember that, although they definitely had their part to play in your relationship, so did you.

Trust me when I say that, once you forgive, life gets SO much better. If not them, then at least yourself. No more blame. No more finger pointing. No more animosity. It's a massive weight that comes off your shoulders. You're no longer burdened with the excess baggage of "what if", "what could've been", "if only". It simply just IS, now. That's when true healing begins and you can fully concentrate on you.  

This is the rub. Once you figured out you have caretaker tendencies or are a codependent and then you continue to go into relationship after relationship repeating the same patterns then, im sorry, you have to shoulder some of the blame.

If i now go into another relationship, after all this pain and soul searching and pick another mentally ill person and act out my dysfunction again, then really i have not learnt the lesson handed down. I really do not believe I can make this mistake again, not now, 2 months ago yes.

A BPD person rarely, even after soul destroying painful relationship, rarely looks inwards and has the power to address their pathology and make changes. It's always someone else's fault. Period. That's why Nons are the 'lucky' ones. We get to grow, they are stuck at 30 months emotionally

[dobie]

Forgiveness is for people who ask , she does not deserve forgiveness because she thinks her behaviours are justified and acceptable and will continue to treat others that way . by my forgiving her I am saying there is no consequences or need to atone for your behaviours .

That's one way to look at it dobie, and does forgiveness need to have anything to do with her?

Any forgiveness is for you Dobie and you don't need to tell her anything about it. I know you're still in a painful part of the healing and I was there for 4 months or so, I can not tell you the relief you feel when you stop looking at her and start to look at your part in it. Why? Because when u r with a BPD you can't control anything, she controlled almost everything about my life and nothing made sense! When you focus on yourself you finally have the chance to take control. You can never control her beliefs or change what she did and being stuck on her just creates more pain. Turn the power onto you and forgive yourself - it's really not about forgiving her

Trog,

My friend the worst part was after 37 I had finnaly found someone to "hear my voice" that she could then shut the door on me and leave me alone to scream in silence is something I can't forgive .

Anger is exhausting so is hate indifference is where I'm heading but forgiveness no never ever not after all she has done maybe one day I can and will but for now I'm shooting for indifference .

[fromheeltoheal]

Forgiveness is for people who ask , she does not deserve forgiveness because she thinks her behaviours are justified and acceptable and will continue to treat others that way . by my forgiving her I am saying there is no consequences or need to atone for your behaviours .

That's one way to look at it dobie, and does forgiveness need to have anything to do with her?

Any forgiveness is for you Dobie and you don't need to tell her anything about it. I know you're still in a painful part of the healing and I was there for 4 months or so, I can not tell you the relief you feel when you stop looking at her and start to look at your part in it. Why? Because when u r with a BPD you can't control anything, she controlled almost everything about my life and nothing made sense! When you focus on yourself you finally have the chance to take control. You can never control her beliefs or change what she did and being stuck on her just creates more pain. Turn the power onto you and forgive yourself - it's really not about forgiving her

Trog,

My friend the worst part was after 37 I had finnaly found someone to "hear my voice" that she could then shut the door on me and leave me alone to scream in silence is something I can't forgive .

Anger is exhausting so is hate indifference is where I'm heading but forgiveness no never ever not after all she has done maybe one day I can and will but for now I'm shooting for indifference .

Hey dobie-

So what if everything you've been through with your ex was supposed to happen, so that you could grow to the point where you meet someone who can hear you well and is capable and willing to create a sustainable relationship with you?  You won't meet her in a state of anger and resentment, or if you do you'll turn her off, but that's OK, anger is a stage that must be gone through; there is no around, over or under, the only way out is through.  I like your goal of indifference, indifference towards your ex yes, but inner peace for you, to take out into the world, available for bonding with someone who hears you load and clear.

[DyingLove]

Borderlines are not responsible for their disorder but they are responsible for their behaviors.  

We forgive someone for us, not for them.

Forgiveness is an action, and the act of forgiving is letting go of what you feel another owes you.

Forgiveness is optional too, and the best revenge is a life well lived.  It's all about what feels best and gives us the most peace in our own heads and hearts.

This whole forgiveness this, I agree, is for us. I've been SUPER angry at my ex, and I've cried over her more times than I can count. I've forgiven her too and taken it back. 

Thinking about it though, In my entire life, I've never had anyone forgive me for anything. NONE WHATSOEVER!  Does this mean I've never been in the wrong?  Well, If I forgive my BPD, in her eyes do I look as guilty to her as she does to me too?  I agree that we all screw up in life.  Every step we take can be scrutinized... .right?

When I was a young teen, I worked for a great guy, He was older and wiser than most, plus he's been thru hell.  He must be long gone by now and this was probably in the late 60's. He told me something that I've never ever ever forgotten.  He said:  "M, you don't excuse a hog from grunting."  Use it as you will, but it's actually an eye opening statement.

[fromheeltoheal]

Forgiveness is for people who ask , she does not deserve forgiveness because she thinks her behaviours are justified and acceptable and will continue to treat others that way . by my forgiving her I am saying there is no consequences or need to atone for your behaviours .

That's one way to look at it dobie, and does forgiveness need to have anything to do with her?

Any forgiveness is for you Dobie and you don't need to tell her anything about it. I know you're still in a painful part of the healing and I was there for 4 months or so, I can not tell you the relief you feel when you stop looking at her and start to look at your part in it. Why? Because when u r with a BPD you can't control anything, she controlled almost everything about my life and nothing made sense! When you focus on yourself you finally have the chance to take control. You can never control her beliefs or change what she did and being stuck on her just creates more pain. Turn the power onto you and forgive yourself - it's really not about forgiving her

AMEN! 

Was that agreement or gender commentary jhk?  Maybe a little of both?

[Mutt]

Trog,

My friend the worst part was after 37 I had finnaly found someone to "hear my voice" that she could then shut the door on me and leave me alone to scream in silence is something I can't forgive .

Hi dobie,

I can see how abandonment would be hard. I'm sorry you had to go through that.

I felt like my ex partner was a person that was not going to leave or abandon me. I felt like she heard my voice as well and abandonment was a theme in my life, I'm an adoptee, my bilogical mother abandoned me, my adoptive mother passed, my narcissistic father threw me out and I didn't think at the time that I would survive yet another abandonment and this time my wife. I was very angry having had been triangulated with another man in the picture and my voice was silenced.

I wanted peace more than becoming bitter from my anger. My ex partner fears abandonment perceived or real, I fear abandonment as well and I don't think there's a way that I would of known when the trigger was going to happen or not. She fears intimacy and if I really take the marriage in it's true context, the writing was on the wall. It was a bad marriage. Take my lessons from my errors and apply them in the next relationship. Ny dad was invalidating caretaker and I didn't know better, a pwBPD are very sensitive, I learned how important validation and communication is in I ter-personal relationships and people in general.

[cosmonaut]

Borderlines are not responsible for their disorder but they are responsible for their behaviors. 

How exactly do you separate these two, though?  They are inherently linked.  The behaviors of BPD are driven by the disorder.  That's how it manifests itself.  It's otherwise a disorder without symptoms.  BPD is the total package.  If we really accept that our ex has BPD, then we accept that their treatment of us was driven by their disorder.  This is not easy to do, but it is necessary for true acceptance.  We can't maintain this idea that pwBPD are people who are deeply disordered, but somehow capable of controlling all their behaviors.  That is the definition of recovery, and most of our exes are nowhere near that.

Forgiveness isn't always easy.  Sometimes it can be very hard.  It can take time.  You mentioned in another thread, AO, that you are asking God to help you right now.  Trust in Him!  Pray for guidance.  He will show you the way.  Forgive as Jesus forgives.  Even on the cross He forgave those who crucified Him!  Forgive your ex simply because she is human, and imperfect in an imperfect world.  Because she is sick and she struggles and she fails.  She hurts the people she most loves, and she terribly hurts herself too.  Forgive her for the very heavy cross she has been given to bare in life.  Forgive her, because she knows not what she does.  Jesus tells us that "But the one who does not know and does things deserving punishment will be beaten with few blows. From everyone who has been given much, much will be demanded; and from the one who has been entrusted with much, much more will be asked." (Luke 12:48).

Edit:  AO, feel free to PM me if you want to talk more.  I'd be happy to listen to you and help if I can.  I know this is hard.

[dobie]

Forgiveness is for people who ask , she does not deserve forgiveness because she thinks her behaviours are justified and acceptable and will continue to treat others that way . by my forgiving her I am saying there is no consequences or need to atone for your behaviours .

That's one way to look at it dobie, and does forgiveness need to have anything to do with her?

Any forgiveness is for you Dobie and you don't need to tell her anything about it. I know you're still in a painful part of the healing and I was there for 4 months or so, I can not tell you the relief you feel when you stop looking at her and start to look at your part in it. Why? Because when u r with a BPD you can't control anything, she controlled almost everything about my life and nothing made sense! When you focus on yourself you finally have the chance to take control. You can never control her beliefs or change what she did and being stuck on her just creates more pain. Turn the power onto you and forgive yourself - it's really not about forgiving her

Trog,

My friend the worst part was after 37 I had finnaly found someone to "hear my voice" that she could then shut the door on me and leave me alone to scream in silence is something I can't forgive .

Anger is exhausting so is hate indifference is where I'm heading but forgiveness no never ever not after all she has done maybe one day I can and will but for now I'm shooting for indifference .

Hey dobie-

So what if everything you've been through with your ex was supposed to happen, so that you could grow to the point where you meet someone who can hear you well and is capable and willing to create a sustainable relationship with you?  You won't meet her in a state of anger and resentment, or if you do you'll turn her off, but that's OK, anger is a stage that must be gone through; there is no around, over or under, the only way out is through.  I like your goal of indifference, indifference towards your ex yes, but inner peace for you, to take out into the world, available for bonding with someone who hears you load and clear.

Perhaps my friend but let me show you a side to her ... .She earns around a 150k a year sterling when she broke up with me she wanted to charge and backdate all the times she had paid for my disabled fathers phone bill around £20 a month luckily I had been paying it for years and the only reason I ever suggested she did was as a form of charity for her as my faith requires acts as well as belief

This same person weeks before asked if she could still visit him after the BU

Her selfishness is truly astounding pd or not she is an evil creature who serves Satan in my opinion .

She even had the cheek to tell me "what a good person she is "

In fact writing this out shows again the issues lay with me now , no normal healthy

person could miss or pine for such a creature

[dobie]

Trog,

My friend the worst part was after 37 I had finnaly found someone to "hear my voice" that she could then shut the door on me and leave me alone to scream in silence is something I can't forgive .

Hi dobie,

I can see how abandonment would be hard. I'm sorry you had to go through that.

I felt like my ex partner was a person that was not going to leave or abandon me. I felt like she heard my voice as well and abandonment was a theme in my life, I'm an adoptee, my bilogical mother abandoned me, my adoptive mother passed, my narcissistic father threw me out and I didn't think at the time that I would survive yet another abandonment and this time my wife. I was very angry having had been triangulated with another man in the picture and my voice was silenced.

I wanted peace more than becoming bitter from my anger. My ex partner fears abandonment perceived or real, I fear abandonment as well and I don't think there's a way that I would of known when the trigger was going to happen or not. She fears intimacy and if I really take the marriage in it's true context, the writing was on the wall. It was a bad marriage. Take my lessons from my errors and apply them in the next relationship. Ny dad was invalidating caretaker and I didn't know better, a pwBPD are very sensitive, I learned how important validation and communication is in I ter-personal relationships and people in general.

Mutt ,

Thanks for sharing I'm sorry to hear how hard your childhood must have been , its awesome and a testament to you that you have managed to grow and flourish from so much pain .

I hope I can as well 

[Irish Pride]

This is the rub. Once you figured out you have caretaker tendencies or are a codependent and then you continue to go into relationship after relationship repeating the same patterns then, im sorry, you have to shoulder some of the blame.

If i now go into another relationship, after all this pain and soul searching and pick another mentally ill person and act out my dysfunction again, then really i have not learnt the lesson handed down. I really do not believe I can make this mistake again, not now, 2 months ago yes.

A BPD person rarely, even after soul destroying painful relationship, rarely looks inwards and has the power to address their pathology and make changes. It's always someone else's fault. Period. That's why Nons are the 'lucky' ones. We get to grow, they are stuck at 30 months emotionally

Exactly. But, to be fair, it took me my entire life to finally figure out the disorder I have. And I'm not exactly stupid.

I'll take it one further. I, to a degree, blamed HER for what happened in the relationship, the degradation of it and the many breakups/recycles. All along ignorant to MY part in the whole thing, not digging into myself to see what part I played in this toxic relationship. I'm not BPD, but I can completely see where they're coming from. I know how easy it is to be ignorant to your own disorder. I have been for a long time. I feel so bad for her, and others out there with this problem.

Borderlines are not responsible for their disorder but they are responsible for their behaviors.  

How exactly do you separate these two, though?  They are inherently linked.  The behaviors of BPD are driven by the disorder.  That's how it manifests itself.  It's otherwise a disorder without symptoms.  BPD is the total package.  If we really accept that our ex has BPD, then we accept that their treatment of us was driven by their disorder.  This is not easy to do, but it is necessary for true acceptance.  We can't maintain this idea that pwBPD are people who are deeply disordered, but somehow capable of controlling all their behaviors.  That is the definition of recovery, and most of our exes are nowhere near that.

Absolutely agree w/cosmonaut. Acceptance of not only their situation, but your own, is key. My disorder drove my behavior. And moving 1500 miles away from everything you've ever known, and loved, for a woman... .yeah. I can safely say my disorder was all by itself in the pilot seat of my life. As it is in theirs. It's an absolute horror show. But you can't control what they, or anyone else, does. I only hope that I somehow planted a seed in her mind that will one day grow by confronting her about her disorder. I hope she finds true happiness, someday. And that's the best you can do for your BPDx. Hope for them and forgive them. It's the best you can do for you, too.

[fromheeltoheal]

Borderlines are not responsible for their disorder but they are responsible for their behaviors. 

How exactly do you separate these two, though?  They are inherently linked.  The behaviors of BPD are driven by the disorder.  That's how it manifests itself.  It's otherwise a disorder without symptoms.  BPD is the total package.  If we really accept that our ex has BPD, then we accept that their treatment of us was driven by their disorder.  This is not easy to do, but it is necessary for true acceptance.  We can't maintain this idea that pwBPD are people who are deeply disordered, but somehow capable of controlling all their behaviors.  That is the definition of recovery, and most of our exes are nowhere near that.

Really, it's not difficult to separate someone from their behaviors; who someone is, is their identity, what they do are their behaviors, and of course they're linked, linked but separate.  And it's up to us to decide if the behaviors toward us are acceptable or not, and if they're not, we have the choice of separating ourselves from the person exhibiting them.  And then, once the emotional fallout of the effect the behaviors had on us dissipates, it becomes easier to separate our ex from their behaviors, and easier to consider the behaviors unacceptable and therefore unwelcome in our lives, while also having compassion for someone who has a disorder they didn't want, can't cure, are not responsible for, and makes their life a living hell.

I'm not being contentious, I'm just telling the truth, and I can totally relate to mindsets here; after I left my ex I wanted to kill her, literally, and had I been anywhere near her then I'd be in jail now, no question, but I'm here to tell you that mindset will pass if we want it to, and not letting it pass will just make us older and more bitter, so healing is a better option, and it takes what it takes.

Forgiveness isn't always easy. 

No, it isn't, and how hard it is is proportional to the severity of the trespasses against us, but what if everything happens for a reason and it serves us?  What if there's a bright future on the other side of forgiving someone; would it be worth it?

[Trog]

Borderlines are not responsible for their disorder but they are responsible for their behaviors.  

We forgive someone for us, not for them.

Forgiveness is an action, and the act of forgiving is letting go of what you feel another owes you.

Forgiveness is optional too, and the best revenge is a life well lived.  It's all about what feels best and gives us the most peace in our own heads and hearts.

This whole forgiveness this, I agree, is for us. I've been SUPER angry at my ex, and I've cried over her more times than I can count. I've forgiven her too and taken it back. 

Thinking about it though, In my entire life, I've never had anyone forgive me for anything. NONE WHATSOEVER!  Does this mean I've never been in the wrong?  Well, If I forgive my BPD, in her eyes do I look as guilty to her as she does to me too?  I agree that we all screw up in life.  Every step we take can be scrutinized... .right?

When I was a young teen, I worked for a great guy, He was older and wiser than most, plus he's been thru hell.  He must be long gone by now and this was probably in the late 60's. He told me something that I've never ever ever forgotten.  He said:  "M, you don't excuse a hog from grunting."  Use it as you will, but it's actually an eye opening statement.

How do you know no one has ever forgiven you? I won't be running to my ex to tell her so.

I hurt a prior ex a lot, she doesn't speak to me, I assume she must have forgiven me as we've been apart for 7 years and it would be awful for her if she's carrying it around.

I've been furious with bosses, with my father, with friends, I don't tell them I forgive them but I have.

[DyingLove]

Borderlines are not responsible for their disorder but they are responsible for their behaviors.  

We forgive someone for us, not for them.

Forgiveness is an action, and the act of forgiving is letting go of what you feel another owes you.

Forgiveness is optional too, and the best revenge is a life well lived.  It's all about what feels best and gives us the most peace in our own heads and hearts.

This whole forgiveness this, I agree, is for us. I've been SUPER angry at my ex, and I've cried over her more times than I can count. I've forgiven her too and taken it back. 

Thinking about it though, In my entire life, I've never had anyone forgive me for anything. NONE WHATSOEVER!  Does this mean I've never been in the wrong?  Well, If I forgive my BPD, in her eyes do I look as guilty to her as she does to me too?  I agree that we all screw up in life.  Every step we take can be scrutinized... .right?

When I was a young teen, I worked for a great guy, He was older and wiser than most, plus he's been thru hell.  He must be long gone by now and this was probably in the late 60's. He told me something that I've never ever ever forgotten.  He said:  "M, you don't excuse a hog from grunting."  Use it as you will, but it's actually an eye opening statement.

How do you know no one has ever forgiven you? I won't be running to my ex to tell her so.

I hurt a prior ex a lot, she doesn't speak to me, I assume she must have forgiven me as we've been apart for 7 years and it would be awful for her if she's carrying it around.

I've been furious with bosses, with my father, with friends, I don't tell them I forgive them but I have.

Trog, I was thinking face to face forgiveness and honestly thank you for pointing that out, because I am wrong about assuming that.  Point taken and thoughts adjusted. Gotta be honest with myself even in the small details that I overlook. I always say: what else don't I know.

[jhkbuzz]

Forgiveness is for people who ask , she does not deserve forgiveness because she thinks her behaviours are justified and acceptable and will continue to treat others that way . by my forgiving her I am saying there is no consequences or need to atone for your behaviours .

That's one way to look at it dobie, and does forgiveness need to have anything to do with her?

Any forgiveness is for you Dobie and you don't need to tell her anything about it. I know you're still in a painful part of the healing and I was there for 4 months or so, I can not tell you the relief you feel when you stop looking at her and start to look at your part in it. Why? Because when u r with a BPD you can't control anything, she controlled almost everything about my life and nothing made sense! When you focus on yourself you finally have the chance to take control. You can never control her beliefs or change what she did and being stuck on her just creates more pain. Turn the power onto you and forgive yourself - it's really not about forgiving her

AMEN!  

Was that agreement or gender commentary jhk?  Maybe a little of both?

Not a gender commentary; agreement and an emphasis on the second syllable for dramatic effect!

(apparently it didn't come across the way I wanted it to!)

[Trog]

Forgiveness is for people who ask , she does not deserve forgiveness because she thinks her behaviours are justified and acceptable and will continue to treat others that way . by my forgiving her I am saying there is no consequences or need to atone for your behaviours .

That's one way to look at it dobie, and does forgiveness need to have anything to do with her?

Any forgiveness is for you Dobie and you don't need to tell her anything about it. I know you're still in a painful part of the healing and I was there for 4 months or so, I can not tell you the relief you feel when you stop looking at her and start to look at your part in it. Why? Because when u r with a BPD you can't control anything, she controlled almost everything about my life and nothing made sense! When you focus on yourself you finally have the chance to take control. You can never control her beliefs or change what she did and being stuck on her just creates more pain. Turn the power onto you and forgive yourself - it's really not about forgiving her

Trog,

My friend the worst part was after 37 I had finnaly found someone to "hear my voice" that she could then shut the door on me and leave me alone to scream in silence is something I can't forgive .

Anger is exhausting so is hate indifference is where I'm heading but forgiveness no never ever not after all she has done maybe one day I can and will but for now I'm shooting for indifference .

Hey Dobie,

You know I am very sympathetic towards you and everyone here because I remember this pain and I also still get pangs from time to time esp late at night. But I once heard someone explain this to a spiritual teacher who told her something really harsh. So I'm going to say it but know I say it with care. But this sentence, the first one, it's a story, a story you are clinging too. I don't say it's not how you truly feel, I believe you completely, but it's an interpretation that you are seeing right now. I guarantee you, with time, this analysis of what happened will change and be fluid. I know it hurts like crazy, but it doesn't help you when you focus on her and a negative story. I assure you, even though you won't believe me now, but the story will change, how you interpret this relationship and it's part in your timeline will change.

This is great news. I am not invalidating your feelings today, you feel this I know it.

Imagine yourself a year from now, with a new girlfriend, one who is truly listening to you and would not abandon you or tally up costs!,  that you are able to attract only because you have worked thru all these issues that your exes BPD has brought up in you.

We always have to get thru what we are going thru today in order to get to the places we are going. It's best to think of something none emotional  like your career or education for example, all you've learnt has brought you here, not knowing that stuff... .You couldn't do your job. The same is true with us learning and moving past our caretaking/codependency.

I hope you take this as a hopeful comment. It's my hope too. My ex rode me for years, when I came out I was a shadow of myself, I didn't even know what. I liked or thought anymore (seriously). Now I am doing things I could never have done before she screwed me over... .Ahhh... .I mean... .Taught me a valuable lesson   . I live in a beautiful country, on Thursday I've got a date with a young woman and on Sunday I'm going on my first yacht sailing course! Believe me, this is progress and like it or not... .It's coming for you too

[fromheeltoheal]

Forgiveness is for people who ask , she does not deserve forgiveness because she thinks her behaviours are justified and acceptable and will continue to treat others that way . by my forgiving her I am saying there is no consequences or need to atone for your behaviours .

That's one way to look at it dobie, and does forgiveness need to have anything to do with her?

Any forgiveness is for you Dobie and you don't need to tell her anything about it. I know you're still in a painful part of the healing and I was there for 4 months or so, I can not tell you the relief you feel when you stop looking at her and start to look at your part in it. Why? Because when u r with a BPD you can't control anything, she controlled almost everything about my life and nothing made sense! When you focus on yourself you finally have the chance to take control. You can never control her beliefs or change what she did and being stuck on her just creates more pain. Turn the power onto you and forgive yourself - it's really not about forgiving her

AMEN!  

Was that agreement or gender commentary jhk?  Maybe a little of both?

Not a gender commentary; agreement and an emphasis on the second syllable for dramatic effect!

(apparently it didn't come across the way I wanted it to!)

It came across a couple of ways, kinda cool, and funny in a way, but your intent is clear now.  Hallelujah too!

[dobie]

Forgiveness is for people who ask , she does not deserve forgiveness because she thinks her behaviours are justified and acceptable and will continue to treat others that way . by my forgiving her I am saying there is no consequences or need to atone for your behaviours .

That's one way to look at it dobie, and does forgiveness need to have anything to do with her?

Any forgiveness is for you Dobie and you don't need to tell her anything about it. I know you're still in a painful part of the healing and I was there for 4 months or so, I can not tell you the relief you feel when you stop looking at her and start to look at your part in it. Why? Because when u r with a BPD you can't control anything, she controlled almost everything about my life and nothing made sense! When you focus on yourself you finally have the chance to take control. You can never control her beliefs or change what she did and being stuck on her just creates more pain. Turn the power onto you and forgive yourself - it's really not about forgiving her

Trog,

My friend the worst part was after 37 I had finnaly found someone to "hear my voice" that she could then shut the door on me and leave me alone to scream in silence is something I can't forgive .

Anger is exhausting so is hate indifference is where I'm heading but forgiveness no never ever not after all she has done maybe one day I can and will but for now I'm shooting for indifference .

Hey Dobie,

You know I am very sympathetic towards you and everyone here because I remember this pain and I also still get pangs from time to time esp late at night. But I once heard someone explain this to a spiritual teacher who told her something really harsh. So I'm going to say it but know I say it with care. But this sentence, the first one, it's a story, a story you are clinging too. I don't say it's not how you truly feel, I believe you completely, but it's an interpretation that you are seeing right now. I guarantee you, with time, this analysis of what happened will change and be fluid. I know it hurts like crazy, but it doesn't help you when you focus on her and a negative story. I assure you, even though you won't believe me now, but the story will change, how you interpret this relationship and it's part in your timeline will change.

This is great news. I am not invalidating your feelings today, you feel this I know it.

Imagine yourself a year from now, with a new girlfriend, one who is truly listening to you and would not abandon you or tally up costs!,  that you are able to attract only because you have worked thru all these issues that your exes BPD has brought up in you.

We always have to get thru what we are going thru today in order to get to the places we are going. It's best to think of something none emotional  like your career or education for example, all you've learnt has brought you here, not knowing that stuff... .You couldn't do your job. The same is true with us learning and moving past our caretaking/codependency.

I hope you take this as a hopeful comment. It's my hope too. My ex rode me for years, when I came out I was a shadow of myself, I didn't even know what. I liked or thought anymore (seriously). Now I am doing things I could never have done before she screwed me over... .Ahhh... .I mean... .Taught me a valuable lesson   . I live in a beautiful country, on Thursday I've got a date with a young woman and on Sunday I'm going on my first yacht sailing course! Believe me, this is progress and like it or not... .It's coming for you too

Thanks Trog your a good man and I'm truly happy for you that you have got to the other side .

One day I hope to be there too and hopefully I will be able to look back and see the bigger picture and in that moment forgive and forget  

[Trog]

This is the rub. Once you figured out you have caretaker tendencies or are a codependent and then you continue to go into relationship after relationship repeating the same patterns then, im sorry, you have to shoulder some of the blame.

If i now go into another relationship, after all this pain and soul searching and pick another mentally ill person and act out my dysfunction again, then really i have not learnt the lesson handed down. I really do not believe I can make this mistake again, not now, 2 months ago yes.

A BPD person rarely, even after soul destroying painful relationship, rarely looks inwards and has the power to address their pathology and make changes. It's always someone else's fault. Period. That's why Nons are the 'lucky' ones. We get to grow, they are stuck at 30 months emotionally

Exactly. But, to be fair, it took me my entire life to finally figure out the disorder I have. And I'm not exactly stupid.

I'll take it one further. I, to a degree, blamed HER for what happened in the relationship, the degradation of it and the many breakups/recycles. All along ignorant to MY part in the whole thing, not digging into myself to see what part I played in this toxic relationship. I'm not BPD, but I can completely see where they're coming from. I know how easy it is to be ignorant to your own disorder. I have been for a long time. I feel so bad for her, and others out there with this problem.

Borderlines are not responsible for their disorder but they are responsible for their behaviors.  

How exactly do you separate these two, though?  They are inherently linked.  The behaviors of BPD are driven by the disorder.  That's how it manifests itself.  It's otherwise a disorder without symptoms.  BPD is the total package.  If we really accept that our ex has BPD, then we accept that their treatment of us was driven by their disorder.  This is not easy to do, but it is necessary for true acceptance.  We can't maintain this idea that pwBPD are people who are deeply disordered, but somehow capable of controlling all their behaviors.  That is the definition of recovery, and most of our exes are nowhere near that.

Absolutely agree w/cosmonaut. Acceptance of not only their situation, but your own, is key. My disorder drove my behavior. And moving 1500 miles away from everything you've ever known, and loved, for a woman... .yeah. I can safely say my disorder was all by itself in the pilot seat of my life. As it is in theirs. It's an absolute horror show. But you can't control what they, or anyone else, does. I only hope that I somehow planted a seed in her mind that will one day grow by confronting her about her disorder. I hope she finds true happiness, someday. And that's the best you can do for your BPDx. Hope for them and forgive them. It's the best you can do for you, too.

Took me my entire life too. AND three recycles.

*wears special hat*

Me with all my edu-ma-cation too! Durrrrrr.

But even at 35, better late than never!

[UserName69]

Forgiveness is for people who ask , she does not deserve forgiveness because she thinks her behaviours are justified and acceptable and will continue to treat others that way . by my forgiving her I am saying there is no consequences or need to atone for your behaviours .

God forgives when we ask if she wants mine she can ask as she does not I'm not going to.

I need to forgive myself first for allowing myself to be used and treated like that

Makes perfect sense! Indeed they don't deserve it because they are aware of what they're doing. When they're done playing with you they're going to do the same with an another person. Even if they know that they're wrong they'll never admit it and will play the victim card. That's how my ex is, they can't be fixed.

I really understand what you mean about forgiving yourself. I was very good for my ex, I really did my best for her I loved her so much and I never ever took advantage of her. She didn't even invite me to her bday party while I supposed to be her bf. For me that's was the end, why should I even stay with her if I get a girl that knows the value of true friendship/relation. This is one of the reasons why I don't want to forgive her. I really hate her even if she was in serious trouble I wouldn't help her I feel like she has betrayed me. I know many people her on this board can relate to this.

You don't need to put yourself in that situation. You did your best, you gave everything you had. She isn't worth it, let her be that person that she want's to be, she will never become a happy person. Soon or late she's going to get the final bill and pay up for all the bad things she has done to people.

[AwakenedOne]

I would like to thank you all for taking time out to respond, share your stories, offer opinions or give advice. Each comment posted has been very helpful and appreciated.

Thank you much,

AO

[apollotech]

In general terms, we are all on a journey. Not a one of us knows what or who will meet us over the hill or around the bend. We all walk our respective paths as best we can with the tools that we are given, broken, as we all are. I try to remember that when someone commits a transgression against me.

Forgiveness from me tells the transgressor (if I am removing the transgressor from my life as well) that he/she and his/her transgression(s) no longer have influence in my life. I am now barren ground to them (if being removed) and their transgression(s). Their debt is canceled; it is no longer a part of my accounting (That is the Biblical concept of forgiveness.). It places him/her (if being removed) and said transgression(s) behind me. In essence it is a decision that you make for yourself about your future.

[AwakenedOne]

I would like to add something to this thread now. (10:38 pm 6/29/15)

I am finally going to try with all my heart to forgive her. Even after posting this thread a couple weeks ago and getting input and advice from others I have only just thought about it all because it still seemed impossible for me to do. I am really tired of carrying this around. It's only hurting me. I have resentment and anger that I would like to be gone also and the only way I see to remove it is through forgiveness. Although my negative emotions toward her are at very low levels I want them to be gone.

I am asking God to help me forgive.

[once removed]

good for you awakenedone!

you got all kinds of great feedback in this thread, and i can only echo it. if i have anything to add, its that forgiveness can take time. it can take hours, days, weeks, months, years, decades. its all part of the process and it isnt easy. im glad youre ready. i prayed about it too, and this step, as i believe its been suggested in the replies, is a really great tool.

[myself]

Forgiving ourselves is another good way of creating acceptance.

[cosmonaut]

I would like to add something to this thread now. (10:38 pm 6/29/15)

I am finally going to try with all my heart to forgive her. Even after posting this thread a couple weeks ago and getting input and advice from others I have only just thought about it all because it still seemed impossible for me to do. I am really tired of carrying this around. It's only hurting me. I have resentment and anger that I would like to be gone also and the only way I see to remove it is through forgiveness. Although my negative emotions toward her are at very low levels I want them to be gone.

I am asking God to help me forgive.

This is a massive step, AO.  I'm really proud of you, and I know this has been an extremely difficult journey.  You've overcome an awful lot, my man.  Keep going and keep praying.  Forgiveness and healing will come.