I watch them - do they watch us?

[Before you can make things better, you have to stop making them worse...]

From time to time I frequent BPD forum boards to try and gain an insight into the disorder from the perspective of sufferers. It really hammers home the fact that pwBPD might have bounced into another relationship, but basically they ain't happy bunnies living the life of Riley!  :'(

I was wondering if any of them do the same thing and read our message boards - or would it be far too triggering for them to do so due to the blame we apportion to them for the emotional carnage caused to us? 

[FannyB]

From time to time I frequent BPD forum boards to try and gain an insight into the disorder from the perspective of sufferers. It really hammers home the fact that pwBPD might have bounced into another relationship, but basically they ain't happy bunnies living the life of Riley!  :'(

I was wondering if any of them do the same thing and read our message boards - or would it be far too triggering for them to do so due to the blame we apportion to them for the emotional carnage caused to us? 

[once removed]

you raise an interesting question fanny b. i know that pwBPD have posted on these boards. some of their words are even in bpdfamily articles. i took a look at some BPD forums once recently. ive seen the movie back from the edge that features three sufferers.

what troubles me is that i read them say how truly they felt their feelings and how desperately they wanted it to work. you never see "nons are evil" or even "nons just dont get it" or "nons are better off alone" or "the only way to heal is to cut them off and never look back". you see people who are suffering, suffering over the suffering they may have caused others, people who never asked for their disorder, and just want to be happy.

i think we have a moral duty not to stigmatize BPD, but we do it frequently. we are understanding and forgiving of our own suffering, and how our own suffering may have led us to treat them, but we either mock their suffering, write it off as somehow trying to mess with our heads, or suggest they dont really suffer at all.

i imagine if i had BPD, it would give me great insight to read some things here, about how the "non" feels toward and about their ex. but the stuff we say about BPD in general, yeah, i think that would be hugely triggering. id have no hope, and it would confirm my worst fears about myself and how society sees me. id be reading about how i cant and will never get better. so why would i try? perhaps the saddest and most dangerous part is that those are not facts. this website is called facing the facts. educating ourselves on the disorder is always encouraged, but with it should come a responsibility to face and speak the facts.

i know so many here are hurting profoundly. this is a great place to express, share, and deal with that hurt. none of that has to include stigmatizing mental illness, painting our exes black, or abandoning empathy.

[UserName69]

They see themselves as the victim they think they're fine and their partner is the culprit. My exBPD knew she had BPD but she never spoke about it. When I confronted her she became distant. Thats one of the reason why we broke up. I bet she still blames me for everything.

[FannyB]

i think we have a moral duty not to stigmatize BPD, but we do it frequently

Once removed

I agree with your comment up to a point. PwBPD are driven by the limitations the disorder places on them, but how many broken relationships can you really participate in before wising up to the fact that you have serious issues?   I do not have a limitless well of sympathy for those who keep repeating mistakes to the detriment of others as well as themselves. Any pwBPD who is undergoing treatment I have serious respect for.

[valet]

Yeah, wow. Wild Question.

I just took a peak at some BPD support forums and am amazed at how similar a lot of the posts are to many things that my ex said to me over the course of our relationship.

+1 to empathy.

I don't know why, but checking out that stuff gives me a sense of hope.

[Hadlee]

Yeah, wow. Wild Question.

I just took a peak at some BPD support forums and am amazed at how similar a lot of the posts are to many things that my ex said to me over the course of our relationship.

+1 to empathy.

I don't know why, but checking out that stuff gives me a sense of hope.

I agree valet.  My heart does go out to pwBPD after reading those forums, however I find reading the posts keep me stuck.  It's hard for me to remember how much they are hurting when I experience their hurtful behavior towards me, first hand.  In hindsight is where I realize it's their coping mechanism kicking in.  It's tough to depersonalize the behavior.   

[once removed]

i think we have a moral duty not to stigmatize BPD, but we do it frequently

Once removed

I agree with your comment up to a point. PwBPD are driven by the limitations the disorder places on them, but how many broken relationships can you really participate in before wising up to the fact that you have serious issues?   I do not have a limitless well of sympathy for those who keep repeating mistakes to the detriment of others as well as themselves. Any pwBPD who is undergoing treatment I have serious respect for.

i understand fanny. i dont have a limitless well of sympathy either. i hope no part of my post suggested i condone bad behavior or that there is no such thing as right or wrong.

"but how many broken relationships can you really participate in before wising up to the fact that you have serious issues?"

evidently, a lot. this is not unique to pwBPD, i can assure you. plenty of pwBPD are willing to wise up to the fact that they have serious issues (they may not be fortunate enough to figure out what they really are). there are more than enough stories here that are testament to that. include mine. and frankly speaking, i think it stands to reason that if youve been through a series of bad relationships, (or one for that matter) that it would distort your belief system, ie "people are bad" or "the opposite sex is bad" or "my former partners were bad". when you throw BPD into that equation, these distorted beliefs are deeply ingrained. its harder to see. id ask you though, ever seen a non on this board have difficulty seeing their issues? seen any nons on this board with a history of unhealthy relationships, blaming their exes?

understanding is not condoning. if you want to understand, seek the facts. if you want others to understand, speak the facts. not the facts unique to your personal experience. not the facts as you see them. as hadlee illustrates, "It's hard for me to remember how much they are hurting when I experience their hurtful behavior towards me, first hand." its also hard to understand how others are hurting. with all we have in common, we have unique experiences, and so do our exes or loved ones, and all pwBPD.

among the facts are that there is hope for pwBPD. yes, the facts include that they must want help for themselves. but when we go around suggesting there is no hope, we are not speaking the facts and it is counterintuitive. i think we should be mindful of that whether a non or a pwBPD is reading our words.

[Tansy]

I never thought to look at BPD boards until I read your post.  It gives me a better understanding of my part in a long and almost entirely terrible relationship.  I was treated badly, but I chose to accept it over and over again for years.  Owning that helps with some of the bitterness.

Seeing that the only thing worse than loving someone with BPD is being someone with BPD allows me to have a shred of compassion.  It's a start.

[FannyB]

id ask you though, ever seen a non on this board have difficulty seeing their issues? seen any nons on this board with a history of unhealthy relationships, blaming their exes?

Once removed

I see it all the time! However, just as BPD is a spectrum illness, we nons are on what I'd call a 'recovery spectrum'. Many still have to work their way through an anger phase before being more amenable to 'facing the facts'.  As I mentioned, I have absolute respect for any pwBPD who faces their demons and either seeks help or a solitary existence. It's still hard to fathom how a person can be physically and intellectually grown up - but emotionally retarded to the extent that they refuse to face their own facts. I don't think having BPD totally abnegates a person of any responsibility for their actions. But, as you've said, there is indeed hope for them. But for any optimistic nons out there clutching at straws, this does not equate to either a quick fix or a guaranteed happy ending.

Thanks for your contribution - I really enjoy 'chewing the fat' on topics like this. 

[Mutt]

i think we have a moral duty not to stigmatize BPD, but we do it frequently

Once removed

I agree with your comment up to a point. PwBPD are driven by the limitations the disorder places on them, but how many broken relationships can you really participate in before wising up to the fact that you have serious issues?   I do not have a limitless well of sympathy for those who keep repeating mistakes to the detriment of others as well as themselves. Any pwBPD who is undergoing treatment I have serious respect for.

How many broken relationships does a non-disordered person have to go through to own their issues? It's far easier for me to own my issues and change. BPD is ingrained in someone's personality; how difficult is it to change our personality?

This is just a general observation and I agree that BPD is stigmatized often

How many often do we over diagnose with ASPD on the boards?

[ZeusRLX]

Most of ones I knew had no awareness or even wouldn't even allow the small chance that there was anything wrong with them, completely in denial about it.

One was getting treatment for BPD but she was not the most analytical person, she was very impulsive and not really prone to research or analysis.

So none of the ones I knew would be reading stuff on here I think... .

In fact, I think the last one probably thinks I have a personality disorder, she told me that I would twist and pervert things every now and then... .typical BPD behavior, haha.

[FannyB]

I would guess that if any pwBPD stumbled across this site it would be ones who didn't think they had the disorder.   However I am aware that certain BPD friendly forums know of bpdfamily.com and the posters are none too complimentary. As Once removed said, a person with BPD would likely find the comments on here extremely triggering - and it would send their persecution complex into overdrive.

[Achaya]

I actually don't watch their boards but I read the professional literature about them to gain more understanding.

Some time ago I saw a post from a pwBPD on this site. She complained about what people were saying here about bods and also complained that people should not diagnose BPD as only a mental health professional can do that. I did not respond to this post because I did not want to reinforce typical BPD behavior that she was exhibiting by posting on this board. She violated boundaries, intruding her way into someone else's conversation, attempted to control what was said and how it was said, and all in the name of how she wanted to be portrayed.

I spent 5 years mincing my words and walking on eggshells so that my pwBPD would be less inclined to distort my words and get hurt or angry. When she did take offense, which was anytime I expressed ANY anger at all, she was vicious and dirty in her counterattack. I was "not allowed" to say or even imply anything that would suggest she was imperfect in how she treated me. I get anxious about confronting people anyway, and by the end of the relationship I couldn't even identify for myself when I was hurt and angry about her mistreatment. I am trying very hard to get back to being able to tell someone they did something to hurt or anger me, and it isn't easy.

I try to be constructive in everything I say on these boards, but even so I have had some anxiety about my ex potentially reading my posts. So I think there is a lot of room for debate on the subject of this thread. On the other hand, I resent any pressure to continue to walk on eggshells out of concern for how a pwBPD might feel. I would have said to my ex's face everything I have said here if she had ever been willing to listen.

[once removed]

fanny i think we are in agreement. after rereading my remarks i wanted to clarify a little:

"if you want others to understand, speak the facts. not the facts unique to your personal experience. not the facts as you see them."

this does not exclude sharing your personal experience. it doesnt exclude giving advice. this is a forum for us, and we are not expected to be therapists, experts, keep all of our opinions to ourselves, have 100% of the facts, let alone be perfect in offering them.

"I don't think having BPD totally abnegates a person of any responsibility for their actions."

we agree. i have sympathy and compassion for pwBPD. i would never condone any of the treatment members have received, or excuse it with BPD.

i think in responding to your post, i was feeling some irritation by some of the misguided if not dangerous things ive  seen members say, both to and about other members, as well as pwBPD. its just basic wisdom to consider our words and think before we speak. that goes to the heart of your original post, i think.

[FannyB]

I resent any pressure to continue to walk on eggshells out of concern for how a pwBPD might feel

Achaya

This is essentially a forum for 'nons', and releasing anger is a natural part of the healing process - so I'm with you all the way on this and have posted previously to that effect.

I do agree with Once removed though that we shouldn't present opinions as fact - especially when said opinions are not borne out by research. I'd hate to inadvertently send a grieving fellow member up the proverbial garden path - so to speak!

Also, I think there is a sort of 'gallows humour' to be derived from the utterly baffling BPD experience. A bit of fun here and there also helps people to get things into perspective IMO. 

[enlighten me]

I think those that are not aware they have BPD would never find the sight or have any interest.

Then you have the ones that are aware they have BPD but are in denial. These probably wouldnt visit the sight and if they did they probably wouldnt think it applied to them.

Then you have those that are diagnosed and are getting help. These will either be painfully triggered by what they read or if they are further along remorseful for their past behaviour. i read an article by a recovering pwBPD. He had been through dbt and no longer ticked five or more criteria in the dsm. He said the most painful thing was when he realised how much he had hurt hurt others. It left him on the verge of suicide.

The final one would be a SO that discovers their partner has posted. And depending on where they are above would depend on their reaction.

[Beach_Babe]

I have empathy for BPDs, my mother was one and I KNOW she suffers. I do not, however, for narcs like my ex or aspd. I agree BPDs can't help themselves, but npd/aspd ENJOY watching you suffer.

[Trog]

Are they in an organised group aware they pick out codependents and them reading about us?

Can you imagine if they organised as a group? Maybe they are picking on tips on how to keep us more fogged up?

I'd highly doubt most have the self awareness of BPD and their affect on their ex partners. They will see us as a bunch of losers, weak willed because they look at themselves and admit fault.

You've scared me now.

[FannyB]

They will see us as a bunch of losers, weak willed because they look at themselves and admit fault.

Trog

I remember reading a posting from a pwBPD once who said how crushingly disappointed she was that she invested so much time and emotional energy in nons only to be disappointed that they failed to live up to expectations! So you're probably not that far out with your contention! 

[Mutt]

They will see us as a bunch of losers, weak willed because they look at themselves and admit fault.

Trog

I remember reading a posting from a pwBPD once who said how crushingly disappointed she was that she invested so much time and emotional energy in nons only to be disappointed that they failed to live up to expectations! So you're probably not that far out with your contention!  

Sounds like idealization and devaluation  

PERSPECTIVES: From idealization to devaluation - why we struggle

[FannyB]

They will see us as a bunch of losers, weak willed because they look at themselves and admit fault.

Trog

I remember reading a posting from a pwBPD once who said how crushingly disappointed she was that she invested so much time and emotional energy in nons only to be disappointed that they failed to live up to expectations! So you're probably not that far out with your contention!  

Sounds like idealization and devaluation  

PERSPECTIVES: From idealization to devaluation - why we struggle

It is indeed Mutt - but from their perspective rather than ours. What's seems callous to us is frustrating to them as they have to re-ignite their search for the 'perfect' partner.   I was explaining BPD to a friend of mine who concluded it must be exhausting for the sufferer as they cannot settle for a sustained period of time.

[enlighten me]

I read an article by a pwBPD. She said when she starts a relationship the idolisation is because the new partner could be the one. As the relationship continues and they fail to live up to the expectations then they are devalued. This wouldnt be a problem if what they wanted was set in stone but it changes from one moment to the next so no one can be everything yhey want so everyone eventually gets devalued.

[Trog]

They will see us as a bunch of losers, weak willed because they look at themselves and admit fault.

Trog

I remember reading a posting from a pwBPD once who said how crushingly disappointed she was that she invested so much time and emotional energy in nons only to be disappointed that they failed to live up to expectations! So you're probably not that far out with your contention!  

Sounds like idealization and devaluation  

PERSPECTIVES: From idealization to devaluation - why we struggle

It is indeed Mutt - but from their perspective rather than ours. What's seems callous to us is frustrating to them as they have to re-ignite their search for the 'perfect' partner.   I was explaining BPD to a friend of mine who concluded it must be exhausting for the sufferer as they cannot settle for a sustained period of time.

Ha!

This reminds me of something my BPD said when I left her.

':)o you really think I spent 7 years investing in you only to give up now, you know I don't have the energy to get to know someone else'

How very dare I!

[apollotech]

I think that without a doubt, although I cannot prove it, they peruse these boards. These boards represent the other side, the Nons (in military jorgan, the enemy encampment). If you are gathering intelligence, that's where you go  I, like many others here have stated, visit their boards. Like us, they go where the information exists.

[Mutt]

Why do we check BPD forums? Is it out of curiosity?

Is it possible a pwBPD may check a non board for the same reason?

[Achaya]

Are they in an organised group aware they pick out codependents and them reading about us?

Can you imagine if they organised as a group? Maybe they are picking on tips on how to keep us more fogged up?

I'd highly doubt most have the self awareness of BPD and their affect on their ex partners. They will see us as a bunch of losers, weak willed because they look at themselves and admit fault.

You've scared me now.

LOL! My ex is one of the most insightful pwBPDs I have heard about anywhere, but she would not spend a second researching my stuff. Either she idealizes me or she doesn't think of me at all! But there are websites where pwBPD talk trash about this site and others for Nons. I can imagine them organizing as an anti-persecution group. I visualize demonstrators carrying signs. Thank God for user names and confidentiality.  LOL!

[apollotech]

Why do we check BPD forums? Is it out of curiosity?

Is it possible a pwBPD may check a non board for the same reason?

Hi Mutt,

For me, I visit their boards in order to broaden my understanding of the disorder and/or clarify my own concepts regarding the disorder. It has certainly helped me to understand what was going on in my relationship by viewing it from her side. It was a heart wrenching, eye opening transformation/realization for me. As much as she threw my world into chaos, I equally threw her world into chaos.

[ZeusRLX]

Hi Mutt,

For me, I visit their boards in order to broaden my understanding of the disorder and/or clarify my own concepts regarding the disorder. It has certainly helped me to understand what was going on in my relationship by viewing it from her side. It was a heart wrenching, eye opening transformation/realization for me. As much as she threw my world into chaos, I equally threw her world into chaos.

What are some good boards to go read their BPD stuff? I'd love to check them out... .

Been reading



Some interesting stuff so far... .

[enlighten me]

Going onto BPD boards isnt for the faint hearted. I would not recommend it in the early stages post BU. These boards are their safe place so going there when still angry you may be tempted to post. Like here they are in various stages of recovery and the last thing they need is to have someone having a go at them. The fact that they are on these boards means that at least they have accepted they have BPD so are self aware of the problem unlike a lot of our exs.

Coming to terms with having a pd is a big step and a painful one. Having someone then point out how much pain they have caused people will be a hammer blow that some cannot take.

please tread carefully.

[FannyB]

Going onto BPD boards isnt for the faint hearted. I would not recommend it in the early stages post BU. These boards are their safe place so going there when still angry you may be tempted to post. Like here they are in various stages of recovery and the last thing they need is to have someone having a go at them. The fact that they are on these boards means that at least they have accepted they have BPD so are self aware of the problem unlike a lot of our exs.

Coming to terms with having a pd is a big step and a painful one. Having someone then point out how much pain they have caused people will be a hammer blow that some cannot take.

please tread carefully.

Enlighten me

I agree. Don't do it when you're angry. However, when you're on more of an even keel it can help healing as it reinforces that it wasn't about you - straight from the horses mouth, so to speak!

[enlighten me]

One thing that those boards have done is give me more compassion to my exs. Understanding the constant stress and fear they suffer saddens me. You could hate them if they did what they do for sport but realising it is fear that drives them makes me pity them.

[Circle]

Can you imagine if they organised as a group? Maybe they are picking on tips on how to keep us more fogged up?

That's funny!

[Circle]

This wouldnt be a problem if what they wanted was set in stone but it changes from one moment to the next so no one can be everything they want so everyone eventually gets devalued.

Totally.

[Circle]

Apparently, they do watch this site. Just found these quotes:

"When looking for a" safe" place on here, I find places for family of BPD ppl. I feel very wary of them. Does anyone else feel" attacked" by them? So I chose this forum because it seems more welcoming to us mental folk. Lol."

"I just wanted to say be careful about looking on sites aimed at those who know someone who suffers with BPD.

A lot of posters seem very angry and they're venting at "people with BPD" in general, tarring everybody with the same brush. It's depressing to read."

These two, above, were from one post.

I agree with what others have written, on this thread. Namely, that it's important to respect people who are making an effort to heal. After all, they didn't ask to get hurt to the point where they developed a serious mental illness. I also agree that it's important for people who were with BPD's and suffered their ways, to have a good laugh and not be too serious when we can manage.

[once removed]

btw, skim this thread if you wish. it contains two posters with BPD. one was active between 2007-2014. there are others.

https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=70626.msg690322#msg690322

[Madison66]

I tried to read as many posts on this thread as I could before sharing my thoughts.  I came to the forum initially for support in my recovery and detachment from a 3+ year r/s with uBPD/NPD ex gf.  I also was looking for information to help me understand what happened and my role in the r/s.  I've never personally gone to a BPD support forum for those with BPD.  I do simply share my experiences here and try not to project as a broad cover on all others, although I see many similar experiences being posted by other nons.  Compassion for my ex gf and others who suffer from PDs begins and ends with wishing them well and hoping they can all get the help they need.  After enduring and allowing 3+ years of the emotional and eventual physical abuse from my ex along with a long road of recovery and detachment, while I wish her well and others well with this and other PDs I know that I choose to never have a romantic r/s with a person w PD again.  Again, after experiencing what I did with my ex gf I have little to no hope that she will ever change.  The most important thing here is that I fully accept that I am a recovering co-dependent and will use my best judgment and discernment to choose r/s in the future that match my values and needs.  PD or no PD... .

[Achaya]

I still love my ex and have a lot of compassion for her. She has taken responsibility for the abusive things she did to me and she does not mince words when she talks about her behavior. I am sure that she would not expect me to do so, in fact when I have tried to put a more neutral spin on her behavior, e.g., "You felt you needed to do this to survive," she counters with something like, "No I did not, it was cruel!" It bothers her that I am not more angry.

Obviously there is hope for some pwBPDs. On the other hand, partners have to decide for themselves whether there is hope for the pwBPD they are involved with. When partners are struggling to protect themselves by exiting a relationship, they may need to decide that there is no hope at all before they can do that. Otherwise, the shred of false hope holds them captive. Some of the most helpful posts for me soon after the BU were the ones that stated that pwBPDs "always" end up ditching their partners, and the most self-protective strategy is to give up on any hope that this particular one will be different.

Perhaps if pwBPD read our posts and "feel attacked," they could come up with some better ways that we can handle our grief and anger about their abuse and rejections. Why don't they have sites where the emphasis is on how to validate, empathize with and support their injured partners? Does anyone ever expect them to do that? All the emphasis seems to be on how we should scrutinize and carefully craft our responses to them, keeping all of their sensitivities in mind.

When I was first coming to terms with my codependency I exposed myself to literature that was written by recovering substance abusers. These people were highly critical of codependent behavior, and highly angry at codependent partners. I considered how some of these criticisms could be true of me and worked on changing those behaviors. People with BPD can do likewise.

[FannyB]

Achaya

You make some very valid points. As the 'non-disordered' party it is inevitable that a disproportionate burden would have to fall on the non's shoulders if the relationship is to work.  Also, whilst the facts state that they can indeed recover - what does 'recover' mean in this instance? If it's that they no longer meet 5 of the 9 diagnostic criteria for BPD that in itself does not necessarily mean that they are no longer hell to live with!   I think a person has to be either exceptionally strong or exceptionally masochistic to plough on with a BPD relationship after considering the evidence on these boards.  On the flip side, if you are not necessarily looking for a LTR, then a BPD relationship might just be the thing for you if you want a fun-fuelled chaotic few months and you already have 'one foot out the door' so to speak. We are all different - and one size most definitely does not fit all.   

[Circle]

On the flip side, if you are not necessarily looking for a LTR, then a BPD relationship might just be the thing for you if you want a fun-fuelled chaotic few months and you already have 'one foot out the door' so to speak.

For some reason, I'm guessing that a person who thinks they can just go into, and out of, a relationship with a BPD-person, has a surprise in store for them. Maybe a sociopath could pull it off. How could the average person not be taken bait, line & sinker? It's everything our culture tells us that romantic love is (in the beginning); love at first sight, passion, mutual obsession. I'd bet that many a player has been out-played and heart-snagged by pwBPD.

[FannyB]

On the flip side, if you are not necessarily looking for a LTR, then a BPD relationship might just be the thing for you if you want a fun-fuelled chaotic few months and you already have 'one foot out the door' so to speak.

For some reason, I'm guessing that a person who thinks they can just go into, and out of, a relationship with a BPD-person, has a surprise in store for them. Maybe a sociopath could pull it off. How could the average person not be taken bait, line & sinker? It's everything our culture tells us that romantic love is (in the beginning); love at first sight, passion, mutual obsession. I'd bet that many a player has been out-played and heart-snagged by pwBPD.

Hi Circle. Not saying it would be easy, but there's got to be examples of people safely negotiating shark infested waters armed with prior knowledge of BPD. Every one of us here who has been damaged by these encounters would be different next time. Probably 90% would run at the sign of the first red flag - but I'm sure some would be brave enough to give it a go. Is it possible to enjoy the idealization and be indifferent to the devaluation? I really don't know. 

[Achaya]

Hi Circle. Not saying it would be easy, but there's got to be examples of people safely negotiating shark infested waters armed with prior knowledge of BPD. Every one of us here who has been damaged by these encounters would be different next time. Probably 90% would run at the sign of the first red flag - but I'm sure some would be brave enough to give it a go. Is it possible to enjoy the idealization and be indifferent to the devaluation? I really don't know. 

I actually did not enjoy being idealized. I just wanted to be accepted for who I am rather than just for what I offer to others. My ex actually did seem to accept me through most of the relationship. I felt very comfortable with her in our day to day life. However, she was so unable to tolerate intimacy that she never really got to know me on a deeper level. She wasn't openly devaluing. She is a Waif type and avoids conflict with everyone.

I used to wonder why she gets involved with women like me, who place so much importance on the depth, consistency and quality of the relational connection. I wondered if a person with a more distant attachment style would work better for her. The problem with that is that my ex starts out wanting a lot of closeness and would react very negatively in the beginning of the relationship if our connection was off. It was like she had to know she was firmly docked at a port, then as soon as she knew that, she freaked out and ran away.

She realizes now that she has destroyed every relationship she ever had and will continue to do so unless she can overcome her BPD-based fears. This is devastating for her to see. I love her and feel very sorry for her. I am so glad she didn't want to recycle with me because I probably would have tried it again. If she works very hard on her fears of intimacy I do believe that she has a good chance of establishing a relationship again, but I think it would have to be with a person who understands her issues and isn't as hurt by her behavior as I was.

[Circle]

Is it possible to enjoy the idealization and be indifferent to the devaluation? I really don't know. 

I don't know either?

[FannyB]

Is it possible to enjoy the idealization and be indifferent to the devaluation? I really don't know. 

I don't know either?

Circle

If you check out my 'Hair of the dog' thread you will see that Zeus clearly thinks so! 

Fanny

[2014]

Is it possible to enjoy the idealization and be indifferent to the devaluation? I really don't know. 

I don't know either?

I have the answer to that! If you are not a sociopath, NO ITS NOT! Even though i wasn't buying the idealization, i most def knew i did not and this rs would not something long therm. I most def had one foot out sort of speak. But did I get burned, MY GOD. The discard came out of nowhere, like a nuclear bomb, he replaced me before breaking up with (which he did in a two line text). I was so badly hurt that i realized i had overestimated my abilities to stay somewhat emotionally uninvested. It took me ONE FULL year to recover from that 5 month not-so-invested relationship i had with him.

Let me repeat that, it took me ONE FULL YEAR to recover from a 5 month 'relationship' that i didn't even want. So, yeah... .

[ZeusRLX]

Circle

If you check out my 'Hair of the dog' thread you will see that Zeus clearly thinks so!  

Fanny

I think so. I think it highly depends on the person though.

I think IF (and that's a big if) someone is experienced with BPD and emotionally resilient in face of BU, then yes, it's possible.

In most of my past experiences (short term and long term), I was the one who left because I knew without a doubt it was BPD. But we had a great time before then so it was worth it.

A couple of times I was devalued. One time things were good and we were planning this amazing trip and talking about marriage (as usual) and kids (of course) and then she did something that annoyed me and I went off at her.

Just told her in no uncertain terms not to do that anymore. No screaming or name calling, of course, but if I don't like you doing something, I will let you know.

So, anyway, she freaked out, didn't talk to me for like 4 days.

I apologized that I hurt her feelings, told her I will make it right. Even though the whole thing wasn't such a bad deal objectively.

Once she had been out of touch for a week I knew something was off.

By that time I myself wanted it to be done because to me that was a completely unreasonable reaction over something so silly.

Anyway, she wrote to me and said she couldn't see me the way she did before and thought it would be better if we end it. I agreed and wished her all the best. I still think fondly of her sometimes even though the whole thing was so short.

I was sort of frustrated for maybe 2-3 days after that (but at least I didn't book the trip so no money wasted!). The next week I met another one, switched my attention, things escalated and things got much more long term with the next one (also BPD, of course).

I wouldn't recommend this to anyone though if you can find someone you have chemistry with that does NOT have a personality disorder.

My chemistry seems to be best with BPD women so that's what I do. It is what it is.

It's still risky though. She could get pregnant or I could actually get married to her. That would really suck!

Those things I personally am afraid of, kids and financial ties... .Devaluation, not so much.

[Mutt]

In most of my past experiences (short term and long term), I was the one who left because I knew without a doubt it was BPD. But we had a great time before then so it was worth it.

My chemistry seems to be best with BPD women so that's what I do. It is what it is.

Those things I personally am afraid of, kids and financial ties... .Devaluation, not so much.

Hi ZeusRLX,

Members are trying to detach from painful r/s break-ups with a pwBPD on the Leaving board and I sense that a r/s with a pwBPD is something that may not phase you and you may radically accept.

We have multiple boards on the forum and we have one for staying in a r/s with a pwBPD and you are welcome to share on the Staying or Undecided board and share your experiences and learn the tools.

Is Leaving the best place for you?

[ZeusRLX]

Hi ZeusRLX,

Members are trying to detach from painful r/s break-ups with a pwBPD on the Leaving board and I sense that a r/s with a pwBPD is something that may not phase you and you may radically accept.

We have multiple boards on the forum and we have one for staying in a r/s with a pwBPD and you are welcome to share on the Staying or Undecided board and share your experiences and learn the tools.

Is Leaving the best place for you?

I will check those out, thanks.

I guess the challenge is, I'm not really staying either, just broke up with one... .but I am staying in a sense that I'm open to the possibility of it I guess? But also leaving at the right time? It gets more and more complicated.

Anyway, I will look at the other boards to see if they are a better match for some of my stuff, thanks.

[Mutt]

Hi ZeusRLX,

Members are trying to detach from painful r/s break-ups with a pwBPD on the Leaving board and I sense that a r/s with a pwBPD is something that may not phase you and you may radically accept.

We have multiple boards on the forum and we have one for staying in a r/s with a pwBPD and you are welcome to share on the Staying or Undecided board and share your experiences and learn the tools.

Is Leaving the best place for you?

I will check those out, thanks.

I guess the challenge is, I'm not really staying either, just broke up with one... .but I am staying in a sense that I'm open to the possibility of it I guess? But also leaving at the right time? It gets more and more complicated.

Anyway, I will look at the other boards to see if they are a better match for some of my stuff, thanks.

You say you had trauma from it years ago and want to help others.

Do you see how your current statements can be triggering to members when they are knee deep in pain?

You sound like you may be Undecided and there are lessons on that board that will help you navigate the complexities of the choices and decisions for you. A r/s break-up is not always something that is linear and clear and it can take time to decide which path to take.

[TwilightVelvet]

you raise an interesting question fanny b. i know that pwBPD have posted on these boards. some of their words are even in bpdfamily articles. i took a look at some BPD forums once recently. ive seen the movie back from the edge that features three sufferers.

what troubles me is that i read them say how truly they felt their feelings and how desperately they wanted it to work. you never see "nons are evil" or even "nons just dont get it" or "nons are better off alone" or "the only way to heal is to cut them off and never look back". you see people who are suffering, suffering over the suffering they may have caused others, people who never asked for their disorder, and just want to be happy.

i think we have a moral duty not to stigmatize BPD, but we do it frequently. we are understanding and forgiving of our own suffering, and how our own suffering may have led us to treat them, but we either mock their suffering, write it off as somehow trying to mess with our heads, or suggest they dont really suffer at all.

i imagine if i had BPD, it would give me great insight to read some things here, about how the "non" feels toward and about their ex. but the stuff we say about BPD in general, yeah, i think that would be hugely triggering. id have no hope, and it would confirm my worst fears about myself and how society sees me. id be reading about how i cant and will never get better. so why would i try? perhaps the saddest and most dangerous part is that those are not facts. this website is called facing the facts. educating ourselves on the disorder is always encouraged, but with it should come a responsibility to face and speak the facts.

i know so many here are hurting profoundly. this is a great place to express, share, and deal with that hurt. none of that has to include stigmatizing mental illness, painting our exes black, or abandoning empathy.

They're suffering a lot of the same things everyone does like bad choices and mistakes and regrets and things we do that are self destructive. I think we all do stupid things sometimes or selfish and destructive things, but there seems to be a difference with "nons". Maybe it is more awareness? Trying to NOT hurt people? Or maybe BPD's in the midst of their rage can't stop themselves from lashing out even at people trying to help them.

I mean I sometimes wonder if I have some BPD myself though my stuff is usually depression/anxiety. But I never want to hurt people, even after they hurt me. I don't go out of my way to lie or cheat or cause pain. I feel tremendous guilt that prevents me from doing anything like that and even in self preservation I can't remove toxic people because of my guilt and wanting to HELP them. But I feel like I still have a thin skin and stuff can trigger me easily.


My sister is BPD hardcore. She HURTS people. She seems to want to hurt us. It's just a pain circus with her and the sense of entitlement is crazy. She goes to trouble to HURT others. She finds the weakness and strikes over and over, year after year.

Then she might say sorry or she seems so small and weak and pathetic and I feel sorry for her. She has nothing in life. But I get angry because I should not be bearing the guilt for HER mistakes along with my own.

[ZeusRLX]

You say you had trauma from it years ago and want to help others.

Do you see how your current statements can be triggering to members when they are knee deep in pain?

You sound like you may be Undecided and there are lessons on that board that will help you navigate the complexities of the choices and decisions for you. A r/s break-up is not always something that is linear and clear and it can take time to decide which path to take.

Oh, absolutely (now that you've mentioned it). If I read some of the stuff I've written today back in the day, it would not be very helpful to me at all. So, yes, I can definitely see how it can trigger some people.

My primary motivation is getting better insight into it so that when I encounter it in the future I am better equipped to handle it. So, yes, in that sense I'm definitely not leaving (or so it seems) overall.

I am sorry if I triggered or upset anyone, that was not my intention. I will be more careful with these things in the future when posting here.

Thanks for alerting me about this, like I said, completely unintentional.

[Mutt]

 

[EaglesJuju]

This thread has reached its post limit, and is now closed. This is a worthwhile topic, and you are free to start a new thread to continue the conversation. Thanks for your understanding... .