Out of the rabbit hole

[Harri]

Hi.  I've been away from the boards for a bit dealing with health issues.  It's been an interesting time.  I slipped back quite badly, to a place in my head that I have not been in quite some time.  It's gotten better but it is a struggle to fight back to a place of relative peace.  Two big things have messed me up the most.  First, I was thinking of suicide for a bit there.  That worried me as I have never been in that particular state before.  I have had suicidal ideation before where I just wanted to die, but this was different.  For a about a week I was actually thinking of ways to die, as in thinking about different ways to do it.  I am not in that state any more thankfully, but I am still puzzled by the whole thing.  I did talk with my doctor and I am now on an antidepressant and anti-anxiety med.  They seem to be helping quite a bit.  I don't think I would have actually done anything to myself, but looking back it scared me. 

Other than telling my doctor that I have been depressed I have not told anyone else what I was thinking.  I am not saying this for attention or anything, I just want to put it out there.  I've been feeling ashamed of wanting to die and thinking of ways to do the dastardly deed.   So this is just a way for me to get it out in the open and take a look at how I got there.

As I mentioned, I have been dealing with health issues recently, though poor health has been an ongoing issue for about 8 years.  The stress was quite high while I was working full time and then when i had to stop working it got even worse due to financial issues.  fortunately my disability was approved after a 19 month wait (grrrr!) and things have gotten better though I am on a very tight budget, but it is doable.  I mention that because I have noticed that I usually deal quite well in high stress situations, but the aftermath is when I crash.  This time I crashed badly. 

During one of my recent hospital stays due to a long standing abdominal wound and fistula (nasty stuff that) I was on some very heavy IV antibiotics and pain meds that really messed with my head.  I hallucinated that my mother was in the hospital room with me, or maybe it was a very vivid dream.  Either way, she was not welcome!  Aside from the fact that she died in 2007   , I never wanted her around me when i was sick and vulnerable.  She was not to be trusted in any way and I certainly could not depend on her to watch out for me when I was in the hospital even back when she was alive.  Yet there I was, seeing her in my room and *wanting* my mother. 

That realization, that there is still some part of my mind that longs for a mother has really thrown me.  That, coupled with illness and pain and stress and depression took me to a very dark and confusing place.  I lost touch with what I have learned about myself and life over the last 10 years.  It is like it was all washed away.  The negative voices in my head telling me I am rotten and unworthy, lower than scum are back, though that has gotten a bit better.  I found myself telling the voice to shut up and saying "No, that is not true" back to it yesterday and today.  That's a plus.    

I'm just shocked and disappointed that I got to the emotional state of seeing no hope, wanting to die and feeling like I have accomplished nothing in the last 10 years. 

[swampped]

Dear Harri:  I am glad you are back, and sorry for the pain you have gone through recently.  I remember many years ago being so suicidal that I found myself making plans---a very scary place indeed.  I am so glad you were able to tell your doctor and get on medication.  That has been a life saver for me, and I do not use that term lightly.  I hope you will continue to talk back to yourself when the negative thoughts come.  And if you need any help just log in here, and we will talk back for you!  You are a kind, wonderful, thoughtful person, who has been dealt some pretty bad cards---but you have survived, and thrived in many ways.  Please take care, and know that you are in my thoughts and prayers.  Here are a few extra        for you--save a couple of them for tomorrow if you need them.  I am sure someone else will be along soon to add to your supply.   Welcome back!   Swampped

[Kwamina]

Welcome back Harri

You've been through quite a difficult time. I am glad your health situation is getting better and that your disability has (finally) been approved That alleviates at least some of the stress.

You found yourself struggling with some very difficult thought and emotions. You were dealing with a lot at the time. You are now on certain meds that seem to be helping which is very positive The negative thoughts can sometimes really sneak up on us. Other times they are actually speaking quite loud and clear and yet we still aren't really aware of what's going on. Perhaps it can help to re-visit the material about cognitive behavior techniques to help you combat these negative thoughts:

Automatic negative thoughts: Talking back to your inner critic/negative voice

I'm just shocked and disappointed that I got to the emotional state of seeing no hope, wanting to die and feeling like I have accomplished nothing in the last 10 years.  

I can understand why this whole experience would shock you. It could be that the stress of your current health issues triggered something from the past in you. Do you feel like you on a emotional level were re-experiencing things you've been through in the past?

You've been through a lot and recovering or healing from that takes time too. Perhaps these words from Pete Walker can be of some help to you:

"Be patient with a slow recovery process: it takes time in the present to become un-adrenalized, and considerable time in the future to gradually decrease the intensity, duration and frequency of flashbacks. Real recovery is a gradually progressive process [often two steps forward, one step back], not an attained salvation fantasy. Don't beat yourself up for having a flashback."

Take care

[Harri]

Swampped, your hugs feel real good.    Thank you for your kind and supportive words as well as your prayers.  Thankfully my doctor was wonderful about it all and trusted me to be okay.  I am sorry you were once in the same place.  One good thing about it all is that I have a better idea of what others have gone through and I think this experience will help me to better understand and be more patient with people who talk about it.  I grew up with my father frequently talking about it and unfortunately my feelings about him have colored my view on the subject.  That whole 'walk a mile in my shoes' thing seems to have come along and smacked me upside the head!  I get it now.  I can only hope I will be able to be more patient and feel more compassion in the future.  I think this is Rude Awakening 17,490 for me so far in terms of getting out of my own way and chipping away at my own arrogance.  I am thankful for the experience though i am still not thrilled about it.   

Hi Kwamina.  Thanks for the link to that wonderful thread.  I read through it and will do so again until I get to the point where remembering about negative thoughts and how to combat them becomes second nature... .again.  In the meantime, I can clearly identify the following warped thoughts that were at play: 

   All or none thinking: Everything is perceived to be either full on or full off. If something isn't fully completed/ or right/ or perfect/ then it's entirely uncompleted/wrong/spoiled.

   Overgeneralisation: One example of a mistake or error is interpreted as a pattern of mistakes, and errors.

   Mental filter: One (negative) part of the picture is examined to the exclusion of the larger (positive) part.

   Disqualifying the positive: Dismissing or ignoring any positive comment/achievement/compliment.

I'll go through the 10 ways to untwist on my own.  thank you again.

Your putting this experience into the context of an emotional flashback has been eye-opening for me.  I think it fits.  I was looking at it more as a failure rather than a natural and even normal part of recovery.  It is wonderful to see this rabbit hole adventure to depression-land in a more positive light.   I don't have the words to express my thanks properly Kwamina bird.   

On a side note, I saved enough money to buy a copy of Pete Walker's "Complex PTSD:  From Surviving to Thriving" and it arrived today.  Your quote from him fits well.

Thank you.

[Ziggiddy]

  Harri

Oh dear. I am so sorry to hear of your trials but also am oddly uplifted. I am very very glad you did not proceed further with any self destructive plans - the world including my world would be a greyer place without you. I think of you more than you know and regardless of your beliefs you are in my prayers more than you can imagine.

Harri I am sorry you have had and continue to have troubling issues. It doesn't seem fair to me that you had to go through such a shocking childhood and then have to go through it all again to try to recover.

But try to recover, you do. Again and again.

I so admire your tenacity and resilience. Even on the very edge of awful you keep coming back. You have some spine, girl. Go you!

As awful as it seems though there is the notion that you have had to plumb the bottom of the swamp and come close to panic in order to really experience the depths of your parents' abandonment - particularly your mother's. And doing it in ill health without the confident support of safe people to hold your hand and tell you that they love you and that you'll make it. So scary. I am proud of you for surviving.

If anything you are coming closer and closer to a dangerous truth - how very dependent you were on your mother for survival. And the hardest part I have found there is the notion of how MUCH I loved my mum. How MUCH I wanted her to love me. How panic stricken I was to find myself again and again in confused rejection.

Harri if you can find a way to approach those thoughts slowly and with self care, you may finally get to a place where you can grieve your terrible terrible loss.

The article there on automatic negative thinking - I read those things in a book called The Tao of Fully Feeling. It was quite literally life changing for me. The author is an incredibly kind and gentle soul who reached out to me through the book. I was so moved I wrote to him and within a day he wrote back! An incredible read and one which I think you would benefit from enormously.

In the meantime, please take care. Really consider the inner critic voice and look for it's source - it is certainly not your own voice. Look to see where you got it.

Zigg

[Turkish]

Hi Harri,

Glad you're back and found the strength to claw your way out of that rabbit hole.

During one of my recent hospital stays due to a long standing abdominal wound and fistula (nasty stuff that) I was on some very heavy IV antibiotics and pain meds that really messed with my head.  I hallucinated that my mother was in the hospital room with me, or maybe it was a very vivid dream.  Either way, she was not welcome!  Aside from the fact that she died in 2007   , I never wanted her around me when i was sick and vulnerable.  She was not to be trusted in any way and I certainly could not depend on her to watch out for me when I was in the hospital even back when she was alive.  Yet there I was, seeing her in my room and *wanting* my mother. 

That realization, that there is still some part of my mind that longs for a mother has really thrown me. 

Despite all that your mother was, and all that she did to you, it sounds like you've touched upon the trigger here. You were very sick, probably felt very alone, and it's natural to want to have someone close to comfort and take care of you. You never got closure one way or the other with your parents, and it sounds like you're still struggling to reconcile who you wanted her to be with who she was. Can you accept that you were in a vulnerable place and that it was ok to feel that way? That it's ok to want to be taken care of when you need it, despite decades of dysfunctional programming by disordered people otherwise?

[Harri]

Hi Ziggy!  It is so good to hear from you.  Reading how you view me stuns me a bit but it feels very good too.  I still feel so awkward and damaged but at the same time, to hear you describe my childhood as shocking is, well, shocking to me.  That lets me know that while I may have come to terms with my past on an intellectual level, I still have a lot of emotional work to do and at a very basic level (acceptance).  I think that fits with what you say about accepting how much I loved my mother.  I've never denied that I love her but I have not really accepted just how desperate I was to feel her love.  Heh, I think I have made a bit of progress there though as I would usually feel contempt for the kid who tried and wanted so desperately to be loved... .but now when I look back and let myself feel and picture me in my mind, I can see the hurt scared lonely kid and my heart breaks for her.

How panic stricken I was to find myself again and again in confused rejection.

Oh this is a perfect description.  I can feel it still.

Back to what you said about love... .  for the last few months as I read here, I have been wondering what is wrong with me.  See, I read the posts here where people actually try to communicate better with a BPD parent, child or spouse and try to get them help and I wonder what is wrong with me.  Yes, I wanted my mother to get better and get help, but I was never willing to help her in any way, not after I learned about BPD.  I got all twisted in my thinking, forgetting the reality of my situation and forgetting that I can't compare myself to others.

I also realize that I have been afraid to let myself grieve.  To do that I have to accept just how much I missed out on and how crippled I am in so many ways.  I think you are right though.  I need and want to do this.  Thank you Zig.  Thank you too for your prayers and for thinking of me.  It means a lot to me to hear that.   

Hi Turkish!  Thank you for the reply and the excellent questions.

Can you accept that you were in a vulnerable place and that it was ok to feel that way? That it's ok to want to be taken care of when you need it, despite decades of dysfunctional programming by disordered people otherwise?

Accept that it was okay to feel that way?  I don't know.  I did not even think that was an option until you mentioned it here.  I went straight to 'oh crap, she is back and I am still looking for mommy to help me... .what a dumb a*s you are Harri'.  Heh heh Thanks for the change in perspective.  Does that longing ever go away?  I thought I got rid of it several years ago, but I guess not.  Maybe it does not matter if it never goes away.  Perhaps what is important here to to accept that it is perfectly normal to feel that way.  Thank you Turkish!   

On a more positive note, I have been doing much better emotionally and the negative voice in my head is much easier to reign in.  I was also able to get rid of one of the annoying medical devices that I have been hooked up to since February!  One less tube stuck in me!  <happy dance!>

[Turkish]

www.giphy.com/gifs/dance-charlie-brown-frog-gif-tJU72w9lPzUPe

[P.F.Change]

Hi, Harri. 

I'm just shocked and disappointed that I got to the emotional state of seeing no hope, wanting to die and feeling like I have accomplished nothing in the last 10 years. 

People who have never experienced suicidal ideation before often have the misconception that it's a choice. The truth is it's a part of being severely depressed and isn't necessarily something you despaired your way into or can just hope your way out of.

When I was depressed, I didn't actually want to die. In fact, I very much wanted to live. So much that I spent almost every waking moment going on walks, visiting friends, going to work... .anything to keep myself from being alone with the kitchen knives that seemed to be almost calling to me to pick them up and use them or the constant visions of drowning that I just couldn't escape. But I didn't tell anyone, not until I just couldn't fight it anymore. I eventually got the help and the medication I needed, and things eventually got much better.

I guess I'm telling you this mostly to say I understand. But also to point out some other ways to look at things. What would it feel like to let go of some of the blaming for experiencing this level of depression? I mean, if you had strep throat, would you be beating yourself up for having a fever or not wanting to swallow? SI is a complication of depression in the same way, and if you're telling those symptoms with your doctor and following your treatment plan, it will probably eventually clear up in much the same way, too.

Also, I don't think anyone ever stops wanting a mother's comfort. I am facing a major surgery soon and found myself thinking the other day how nice it would be to have a mom who could be there with me. I know my own mother can't be that support, and I don't actually want *her* there, but it doesn't stop that natural desire for maternal protection and comfort in the face of something scary. I think that's normal.

I hope everything will keep improving for you, Harri. Keep taking care of yourself.

Wishing you peace,

PF

[Harri]

Hi PF.  I will be thinking of you and praying for you with your upcoming surgery.   

thank you for sharing your story with me.  I am glad you got help and were able to come through it.  Hearing the stories of others gives me hope.  It does helps to see this as a normal part of depression and that depression is just like any other disease or illness.  You've also helped me see how I have once again been beating myself up.   

I figured out it hurts less to get angry with myself and put myself down for wanting a mother.  Again, like you, I do not want *my* mother but I do want safe and healthy comfort, care and love.  I keep thinking of that phrase that says we have to learn to parent and love ourselves... .but it is not the same at all. 

Turkish, thanks for that gif and for celebrating with me. 

I am doing better and better every day.  I'm still sad and I still hurt both physically and emotionally but it is mostly back to the levels I am used to.

Thanks.

[Kwamina]

Out of the rabbit hole and into the parrot's nest!

How have you been Harri?

On a side note, I saved enough money to buy a copy of Pete Walker's "Complex PTSD:  From Surviving to Thriving" and it arrived today.  Your quote from him fits well.

I have been very impressed by Pete Walker's work. I've read several of his articles and I feel his work really applies to the experiences of children of disordered parents. His writings about emotional flashback management, resisting the inner critic and grieving have been very insightful to me. He uses the following quote in his work that I really like:

“I care for myself. The more solitary, the more friendless, the more unsustained I am, the more I will respect myself”. - Jane Eyre

It helps reminds us to be gentle with ourselves and have self-compassion especially at those times that we are struggling the most.

I hope this new book you got has been helpful for you

[Ziggiddy]

Oh I so agree. Pete Walker is an amazing author. His first book The Tao Of Fully Feeling was quite literally life changing for me and one of the best books I have ever read. I was so touched by it, I wrote to him and he wrote back the very next day! he appreciated feedback as he still gets performance anxiety now and wonders if anyone will read his stuff! 

The second one was amazing too - I have also just finished reading it recently. The work on the inner critic may be of real benefit to you, Harri. I use it all the time now.

I have learned to tell when I am in a flashback (emotionally) and how to use it for my healing. Did me no end of good.

I also recall in reading on eof the exercises about reconnecting with 'safe enough' people he recommends imagining talking to someone sympathetic and goes on to list some examples. At the end of the list, he wrote "If ther eis no one you can talk to, imagine you are talking to me. I would be kind to you."

So I do.

And he is.

Welling up jus tthinking of it

[Woolspinner2000]

Hey Harri! 

I've been away for awhile too, and it is good to come back and read your post. Thank you for your honesty and raw truth. In spite of the struggles you are having and have faced, you really are giving us the treasures from who you are, no hiding or pretending, being yourself and refreshingly so. I know you don't see it that way, but there are always helpful words you share with someone who is struggling with the same thing or something quite similar. 

Here is an example. After I read your post, that night I received a call from one of my friends whose daughter was currently in the hospital because of suicide thoughts, and my friend knew of no one else to safely share with. I've gone through this more than once with our daughter so could have a basic understanding from the parental perspective, but not so much from the point of view of the person struggling with this. It helped me to understand and not freak out because of what you shared and also what PF said. I was able to offer her some comfort and encouragement as a result.

 Keep going!

Wools

[lm1109]

Hi Harri! Boy do I know the feeling. I haven't been on the board for a while, but remembered some of your posts. You strike me as a forth coming and compassionate poster! I came back to the site because I was feeling the same way tonight. Not with suicidal thoughts, I used to have those until my brother committed suicide. I have kids so I can't even go there in my mind. When I feel that low, I envision myself running away from my life. I have this fantasy where I take my kids and we start over happy. All the people who I feel mistreat me or misunderstand me left in the dust. What strikes me most from your post is the disappointment you felt about finding yourself "back" in that mindset is identical to what I've been feeling tonight. I'm reading an amazing book called The Exquisite Risk by Mark Nepo this passage helps me: "Falling down is frequently an opportunity for transformation. As Rob Lehman suggests, falling down and getting up is our way of becoming conscious. It is how we aim and miss and lean into the difference. Too often, we are distracted by a self-loathing of that difference, of the gap between what we want and who we are. We regret not being perfect and this painfully stalls us. Yet each time we aim and miss, each time we fall down and get up, it is the plunge and reach of a swimmer’s stroke that moves us through the water. There is no other way to swim."

I also wrote a poem that I wrote a while ago and re-read today that helped me quite a bit. I'm no Mark Nepo but maybe you will resonate with it as well.


I'm feeling so good, so true, so free.

Nothing will waver this strength inside me.

I found my path and I fight for each stride

Change is around the bend, a brand new tide.

I must not look back, but only ahead.

I won't choose your path, I choose this one instead.

Transformation is near, and now I can taste it.

I've been freezing inside and I've just reached my blanket.

On a hot humid day I have quenched my own thirst.

Only to find my bubble has been burst.

Like sand through my fingers, a firefly too fast.

I can't catch it, and jar it, it just couldn't last.

The roll of the eyes, you're just not enough.

You're weak, you are nothing, don't try to play tough.

I'm back at the bottom, they call this square one.

A few little words and my progress is gone.

I've been pulled back before, but you know I won't stay

Each time that I climb I find my own way.

Your words are like daggers but I've found my shield.

I'll keep going and going until I am healed.

Strength is not given by a mom or a dad.

I find it myself in the hurt and the bad,

Each time i get up and decide to go on.

You think you can keep me, I'm already gone.

My body is tired but my soul is awake.

I will not stop going, my life is at stake.

The journey is mine and I choose to take it

Ill start over again, someday I will make it

[Harri]

Hi Kwamina!  I am doing better and better, thank you for asking.  I find the parrots nest quite comfy   so you may have to kick me out.  

So far, I have been slow to read the book.  I am reluctant to push myself too far and too fast right now.  I generally don't take things this slowly, but I'm just too fragile right now and I am surprisingly okay with that, peaceful even.  I'm confident things will get better and I will come out of this stronger.  What I have read so far has been insightful and encouraging.  I find him compassionate, and like Ziggy, his words really resonate and touch my heart.  

“I care for myself. The more solitary, the more friendless, the more unsustained I am, the more I will respect myself”. - Jane Eyre

Thank you for this.  I have never been more alone and isolated than I am right now and it helps to focus on this and to know I am not alone in being alone.  If self-compassion includes acceptance, then I would say I am doing that.  Accepting that I am alone, sad, sick, damaged and hurting.  It is not as miserable as it sounds though!  Haha.  I can see the good parts too and I can smile at my quirks and difficulties, even though I do feel a bit frustrated at times.  I'm still avoiding and isolating though I feel I need this time for me.

Ziggy, thanks for stopping by.  You really are like a ray of sunshine.   This made me tear up too:  

"If ther eis no one you can talk to, imagine you are talking to me. I would be kind to you."

Confession time:  I have an active imagination and one of the defenses I developed as a kid and still do today is escape in a fantasy world... .and I talk with all sorts of people.  I find they are the most accepting people I know outside of these boards.  It helps that they are good listeners too.

Wools!  I've wondered if you are still reading the boards so it is great to see you here.  Thank you for your encouragement.  As always, it is so welcome and I see it as a gift.  Thank *you* for sharing it with me.  Thank you too for letting me know my words helped.  It gives me and my past and present a purpose and makes the journey more worthwhile.  I will pray for your friend and her daughter to come through this stronger and with peace in their hearts.  I had no idea you went through the same with your won daughter.  I am sorry for that.  What, if any, positives did you find in the experience?  

lm1109, hello!  It is good to see you again!  I understand the feeling of wanting to run away.  I get that too.  I remember reading a post you made where you mentioned your brother had died, but I did not realize he committed suicide.  Just thinking of the pain and hurt he and you must feel brings me to tears.  I am glad you have been able to move away from such thoughts though the way it came to be hurts to think about.  

The quote you included is quite fitting.  I like how he mentions leaning into the difference and how important falling is.  I especially like the poem you wrote.  I truly does speak to me.  thank you for sharing that part of yourself here.  It is beautiful.  You have quite a gift there.  Is it okay if I print it out to carry with me?

Thanks everyone for the support and caring you have showed.  I am embracing it and I cherish the acceptance and understanding.  

[Woolspinner2000]

Hi Harri, 

It is good to pop back into the boards. I don't wish to hijack your post so I will only say that like you, I had to pull back for awhile and needed to step away from input for a couple of months. Had to cut back on reading or anything that would be more to think about. I went through a pretty intense period of time for a few months when the memories and understandings were too fast and furious, and it was as I began to get more into the heart of the issues surrounding my FOO and issues related to my uBPDm. I didn't need anything extra to help release the memories because they were doing just fine being released on their own, brand new ones several times a week for many weeks in a row. I couldn't keep up with processing them. My T and I both felt that I had to take the break because I was becoming emotionally and physically fatigued with just the slightest amount of reading-too much stimulation for a bit. There are times when we need to take a break, be okay with it and at peace, like you are right now. I too am finding a great deal of peace in this time. One of the great things to me is that as I've slowly been stepping back into reading the boards, it is nice to be back and see and experience once again the family that we have here. Nothing to be afraid of for it is like a warm hug of welcome to all of us with those who understand and support and validate.

Now getting back to your question about my daughter, she is only 26, yet she has gone through 3 times of being suicidal. Each one has been very frightening to my DH and I, and in retrospect, to her as well. She doesn't even remember the first summer, but it was when she was trying to come off of her anti-depressants. She has what I truly feel is a chemical imbalance (like her dad, my DH), and while she feels the meds are a life saver to her, she also doesn't like how they make her feel (foggy and tired). So now as an adult, she often has played around with her meds to try and find a better fit. However, like the drive through mentality in which we live, she wants to fix it now. One of her suicidal times was when she tried 9 different anti-depressant meds within a 3 month period of time.

In the end, there are some positives I have for sure learned from the parent's perspective:

1. While the question is always: 'what did I do to cause her trouble?' I've had to come to accept that we really did all we could to help her. We got her on medication when she was 13 and had lots of mood swings plus the genetic factors of her dad having similar symptoms. We had taken her to counseling on a consistent basis with a wonderful T who works with kids, from the time she was 10 years old. We have supported and helped her to the best of our ability. Even the T affirmed this with us, because she sees so many families that struggle. She said we gave her the best foundation a family could have.

2. While we support and encourage her, we also have to let go and let her figure this out on her own. She is an adult now. I frequently gently remind her to take the tools out of her 'mental' toolbox, the skills she has learned through counseling and put them into practice. Also I cannot be co-dependent with her and take on her things which has been my temptation and default to do as a borderline child, to try and fix things. I can only walk alongside and try hard to take a 'hand's off' approach. She knows we are here to listen to her, and she will often call when she is having an especially down day. I've learned a lot through my own T, and that is helpful as I try to redirect her to reframe her troubles, and it helps me stay out of the middle.

3. I've also learned more about the signs of unstableness, and when to react with necessity and when it is time to be aware and watch from the distance without stepping in. Less freaking out.

4. Don't play with your meds and suddenly stop them! That's a big no no! Only under the care of someone who knows should one adjust and change their meds. Not all Psych doctor's are the same. Her psychiatrist was unaware, letting her change so much within too short of a time period.

She reminds me so much of my uBPDm in the emotional disregulation, but don't think she is BPD. Sometimes I wonder about genetic factors with BPD being passed down, even though I know the jury is still out on that one.

I'm off to FL tomorrow to visit with my dad who is still going through his chemo treatments for lymphoma and may not be able to respond soon, but I'll check the boards when I can

Take care Harri! 

Wools






 

[Harri]

Wools, thanks so much for sharing your experiences.  It helps immensely to see what you have learned.  I am glad you shared.  It is good that she has you to guide her when she needs it and it says a lot to me that she feels comfortable calling you when she is having difficulty.  Well done Wools!  I don't have kids but I have had to learn to let others go and do things on their own and it is not easy.  I would imagine it is even harder with your own child.  One thing that helped me a lot with letting go and giving others the freedom to learn on their own is that I have been in both the fixer and fixee positions and I know what it feels like from both sides.  Neither position is good or healthy.

All I can say is yikes on so many med changes in such a short period of time.  It is my understanding that most meds do not begin to work until after several weeks of taking them.  

Wools, it is good that you were able to step back for a bit from the boards.  I remember a post where you mentioned the memories were coming back fast but I did not realize how fast.  Sounds like the peace you feel now was hard won.  It is a good place to be though... .the peace and here on the boards.  

Nothing to be afraid of for it is like a warm hug of welcome to all of us with those who understand and support and validate.

I agree.  Thanks for being part of it and for helping it feel safe and welcoming.

Wishing you more peace during this tough time with your father.  I hope he is doing well. 

[polly87]

Hi again Harri! 

I only noticed your new topic today (because, as you know, I was busy trying to deal with my own issues). I'm so sorry you went through a period of suicidal thoughts but I'm really glad you're feeling better now. It must have been really hard to deal with your feelings towards your mother (or, maybe more appropriate, a mother figure symbolised by your mother). I understand why it upset you so. You said to me, "allow yourself to fall apart". Please allow yourself to fall apart too, to be upset by your confusing feelings. Even though you are feeling better now, I think it is good to focus on what you are feeling and what you are telling yourself about those feelings. Just notice your thoughts and be kind to yourself.

At the moment I am reading Pema Chödrön's When Things Fall Apart (which you may have read already) and she writes that we can heal by allowing ourselves to experience sadness, for relief, for grief, and for joy. I am finding out myself these days that those feelings will pass again after you have allowed yourself to feel them. Your confusion and grief will also pass. I am praying for your recovery and wishing you the best.

Many hugs my dear friend   

[Harri]

Hi Polly.   

I have been letting myself feel.  I have come to realize that when I am hurt, I automatically switch it to anger... .so I have been working on sitting with the hurt and sadness.  It is strangely peaceful.  I guess the contrast with the adrenaline rush from the anger vs. the calmness (?) of the sadness is what I am noticing.  There is so much to grieve still.  I am taking lots of long drives, and I have taken steps to make it easier for me to walk which will help me mentally and physically.  I can't do the quiet/sitting still meditation and I find I do better thinking and feeling when doing simple tasks, so simple it is.  Before my health started being an issue again, I was able to do walking meditation and I hope to be able to do it again soon.  I have also started doing qigong though in a limited way.

thanks for your support my friend.  I know this is an especially difficult time for you so I really appreciate your reaching out to me.  We will get through this and come out better for it.  I have great hope for the both of us.   

I am glad you are coming to see the only way to heal is to go through the feelings.  Pema Chodron is an amazing woman.  I have not read that book but I do like her teachings. 

[polly87]

Hi Harri 

I think you are making great progress by allowing yourself to feel sad and hurt. You have all the right to feel that way after the things you have been through. Do you think you (used to) switch to being angry because you did not feel safe enough to be sad?

Like you, I have connected to a place of sadness now - I think it's because I have reached the first level in self-compassion recently. And like you, I notice that when I am sad, I tend to feel something else - be it anger, fear or not feeling at all. It seems like we are walking along the same path indeed, so if you ever feel lost, don't worry, I'm beside you.