Would you have agreed to be with them if you knew about BPD?

[thisworld]

Just out of curiosity. Imagine you met your partner and they were as attractive and charming as they were during the mirroring stage. But you knew that they had BPD and somehow had read everything you see here on bPD family. You also knew that this person was not in therapy. Would you start a relationship with them despite the charm?   

[patientandclear]

I can only be sure it would have gone very differently. I think my ex would have been hugely relieved if I stayed interested in him without him having to pretend to be someone he isn't--if I had relieved him of the need to mirror to get my approval.

I'm sure that eliminating my shocked reactions when he proved to be so different than he first appeared would have prevented a lot of damage. But at the time, I had no clue what was happening or why.

So knowing could have helped. On the other hand, knowing that there was a long string of women he'd made feel exactly like I felt at the outset, only to get their hearts broken, would have been a big deterrent.

[SummerStorm]

No, I wouldn't have.   Would I have still been friendly with her at work?   Yes, of course.   pwBPD are people, after all, and mine is funny and smart.   But I wouldn't have gotten as close as I did.

[Confused108]

No I would have stayed friends and that's it.

[blackbirdsong]

At the very beginning of our relationship I knew that she is in therapy.

But the mentioned reason was some traumatic experience in recent history (family related) and the symptoms are depression and anxiety. I actually found that positive, in a way that she recognized this and seek help.

But later she mentioned BPD, as something that her therapist defined as a possible diagnose, but she said that she doesn't see how that fits (!)

At that time, I didn't know what BPD was, just briefly search it, saw self harming etc. so I also rejected it. (who knows, considering the red alerts that already existed, maybe I didn't want to recognize it)

Later, at the end of the relationship, I remembered BPD and started exploring... . 

Will I start relationship again? Probably, because at that point, even if she admitted BPD, I wouldn't have a realistic view of it. Hell, probably my codependency issues would be even more triggered, who knows... . 

But, ask yourself one thing, if someone tried to describe the feelings that you experienced in a relationship with BPD earlier, would you believe that person? I wouldn't... .So, probably, I would start a relationship, maybe with more caution... .     

[Reforming]

Hi thisworld,

There's a very good old thread on this subject, perhaps one of the mods might be able to bump it. From memory most of the members said no.

My feelings…

It's a hard one to hypothesise.

Not only was I very uneducated about mental health issues when I got involved with my ex - I was very unaware of my own behaviour and coping mechanisms - a pretty destructive combination.

Having a successful relationship with someone who is suffering from a disorder requires a highly developed emotional  intelligence, finely tuned communication skills and rock solid boundaries.

Some of this can be learned over time, but it takes a lot of work and dedication and even then there are no guarantees of success. It seems like a high risk proposition to me


Reforming

[steve195915]

Just out of curiosity. Imagine you met your partner and they were as attractive and charming as they were during the mirroring stage. But you knew that they had BPD and somehow had read everything you see here on bPD family. You also knew that this person was not in therapy. Would you start a relationship with them despite the charm?   

Good question that definitely takes some thought. 

I would like to say if I knew what BPD was and how it manifested itself, I would definitely not have pursued them.   

However, in reality if I met my ex and knew of her BPD yet I  saw how attractive and charming she was, I probably still would have gone out with her though I would have been very cautious.  She is absolutely gorgeous and seemed very happy and a fun person when I met her.  I would have ended up in a relationship with her regardless since during our first 5 months, she was in perfect behavior and didn't show the typical BPD traits, by then I was totally in love.  Note the 5 months consisted of only seeing her 3 days every 2 weeks due to my job travels however we did talk daily on the phone during the time.  The limited time together helped her hide her true colors for that length in time.  So if I knew she had BPD at the beginning I may have been on the lookout more but after 5 months of perfect behavior and the intensity of our feelings during that time, I would have thought that she really didn't have it like I was told, or the intensity of her disorder is minimal.  I also don't think I could really comprehend what the pwBPD were actually capable of...   Even after what mine did to me, I still find it hard to believe some of the things, like how can they profess their undying love, show intense feelings, make love like you never experienced before, and then the next day dump you with no remorse and act like you never meant a thing to them ever. 

So if you ask me now if I meant someone that told me first they had BPD, I'm hoping after my experience I would run but knowing me, if she was super adorable, I may still put my hand into the fire.  That damn other brain of mine!  arghhh!

[thisworld]

I wish they did Reforming, and thanks for providing the general tendency in that thread.

I think I lost my ex due to some solid rock personal boundaries as well as my follow-up on boundaries that we designed together with negotiation. I think I still became the persecutor in his eyes. Maybe I could have done the follow-up differently but I don't think that would ultimately change anything.

But, ask yourself one thing, if someone tried to describe the feelings that you experienced in a relationship with BPD earlier, would you believe that person? I wouldn't... .So, probably, I would start a relationship, maybe with more caution... .     

I would believe that person. I would also tell the person that they were going through emotional abuse for whatever reason and try to provide support in the best possible way:))  

[blackbirdsong]

I wish they did Reforming, and thanks for providing the general tendency in that thread.

I think I lost my ex due to some solid rock personal boundaries as well as my follow-up on boundaries that we designed together with negotiation. I think I still became the persecutor in his eyes. Maybe I could have done the follow-up differently but I don't think that would ultimately change anything.

But, ask yourself one thing, if someone tried to describe the feelings that you experienced in a relationship with BPD earlier, would you believe that person? I wouldn't... .So, probably, I would start a relationship, maybe with more caution... .     

I would believe that person. I would also tell the person that they were going through emotional abuse for whatever reason and try to provide support in the best possible way:))  

no, I expressed myself in a wrong way (sorry, English is not my native language  ).

What I meant is that someone told me that I could be so hurt and allow someone to manipulate me like she did, I wouldn't believe that to anyone. The fact was that we were blinded, not only our BPD partners, but our emotional issues/wounds. And this is something that would disable my healthy view of the situation. The fact is that is much easier to recognize emotional abuse when you look someone from distance... .

[thisworld]

It's not my native language, either

I see what you mean. That FOG!

Well, it's lifting now:))

[Lucky Jim]

Who knew?  We never covered it in Psych 101 in college.  No, I can't see myself getting into a BPD r/s now, though I'm a much different person after going through the BPD crucible.  It changes you.  I'm less naive.  I understand myself better.  I'm far less susceptible to manipulation.  As Nietzsche said, "what doesn't kill you makes you stronger" and I think there's some truth to that in the BPD context.  

LuckyJim

[FannyB]

As most of my anxiety during the good part of the relationship centred on my concern that I would let her down, then the answer is an emphatic 'yes'.  If prior knowledge would have protected me from falling in love with her, whilst still allowing me to have a fantastic 4 months or so, then that would have suited me fine.

Sorry if that sounds superficial. 


Fanny

[heartbroken25]

I suspected BPD after I had already been in a relationship with him for 12 years.  I was ready to leave when he made the commitment to go to DBT therapy.  I stayed and married him knowing he had BPD.  How could I leave when someone was willing to make such a commitment (or so I thought)?  He  had 4 years of DBT therapy.  It helped with certain issues of his esteem, impulsiveness, and rages but not with him dealing with uncomfortable feelings and "bolting" everytime he claimed to be unhappy in our marriage.    

I knew of BPD but failed to educate myself fully. I wasn't aware of this website then, not even sure if it existed.  I really thought that the DBT therapy was the magic pill that would really help.  I also learned validation and communication techniques through a local support group in NY.  Many of the individuals there were parents as opposed to partners.  Most told me to "run" as they had no choice because it was their children afflicted with this and not a partner.  I should have known better.    

I met my BPD when I was 19 years old.  If someone told me all about it then, not sure how I would have reacted then.  Now that I have experienced this illness for 25 years and have been traumatized and damaged (hopefully not beyond repair) I'm afraid that it will find me again.  I still have to heal from my current situation, but when and if I decide to share my life with another, you can bet I'll run for the hills the first red flag I see.  "Fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice, shame on me."

[thisworld]

As most of my anxiety during the good part of the relationship centred on my concern that I would let her down, then the answer is an emphatic 'yes'.  If prior knowledge would have protected me from falling in love with her, whilst still allowing me to have a fantastic 4 months or so, then that would have suited me fine.

Sorry if that sounds superficial. 

Fanny

It doesn't sound superficial, it sounds very honest Now that you say it, I think I enjoyed falling in love myself. So, I would like to relive the first one month and then suffer from amnesia. And then again and again. Just like Groundhog Day.

Sorry if that sounds a bit borderline

[Bianca]

No way in hell!  I would have turned around and ran the other way. He even told me in a rare moment of clarity, that although he doesn't want ME to leave him, if he were to advise a friend, he would tell her to run and never look back. 

[Lonely_Astro]

I can only be sure it would have gone very differently. I think my ex would have been hugely relieved if I stayed interested in him without him having to pretend to be someone he isn't--if I had relieved him of the need to mirror to get my approval.

I'm sure that eliminating my shocked reactions when he proved to be so different than he first appeared would have prevented a lot of damage. But at the time, I had no clue what was happening or why.

So knowing could have helped. On the other hand, knowing that there was a long string of women he'd made feel exactly like I felt at the outset, only to get their hearts broken, would have been a big deterrent.

I wouldn't be so sure about that.  I say that from my experience.  When J and I started our first r/s, I had no idea about BPD and she wasn't diagnosed.  At the very end of our r/s then, she was.  3 years later, we started a new r/s.  She knew she didn't have to pretend to be anyone, she didn't have to wear a mask with me.  She chose to do so anyway, that's how we came to be again.  She seemed so grounded and self aware of her condition.  She was also medicated and had told me she had been through 'intensive therapy' (i.e. DBT).  It turns out, in the end, she was medicated but that she had been seeing a counselor (she had never been through DBT).

So, she knew she didn't have to pretend with me, but she chose to.  She chose to more or less pretend with me the entire year we were back together.  So knowing they have it in the end doesn't matter.

If I could go back 4 years ago with the knowledge I have now, I'd tell myself to be friends with her (she's still a human being) but don't ever consider being more with her.  I took a second shot at the goal with her and it bit me now just like it did then.  That's my fault (and some of hers by presenting herself the way she did).  

It won't happen again.

[Lonely_Astro]

No way in hell!  I would have turned around and ran the other way. He even told me in a rare moment of clarity, that although he doesn't want ME to leave him, if he were to advise a friend, he would tell her to run and never look back. 

Mine outright told me today (we were talking about the ending of our r/s) that she wasn't going to make me any promises and that I didn't deserve to be hurt (the ones she had made she broke and she's hurt me several times throughout the past year so its a little late to be talking so bold).  I took that to mean she was going to do what she wanted and if I was ok with that, fine, if not, hit the road.  So, I hit the road.

Of course, I feel she's only talking that way because she has a new guy that she's seeing (I know this for fact).  Otherwise, she'd still be hanging onto me in limbo.  Monkey brancher that she is.

[SummerStorm]

I can only be sure it would have gone very differently. I think my ex would have been hugely relieved if I stayed interested in him without him having to pretend to be someone he isn't--if I had relieved him of the need to mirror to get my approval.

I'm sure that eliminating my shocked reactions when he proved to be so different than he first appeared would have prevented a lot of damage. But at the time, I had no clue what was happening or why.

So knowing could have helped. On the other hand, knowing that there was a long string of women he'd made feel exactly like I felt at the outset, only to get their hearts broken, would have been a big deterrent.

I wouldn't be so sure about that.  I say that from my experience.  When J and I started our first r/s, I had no idea about BPD and she wasn't diagnosed.  At the very end of our r/s then, she was.  3 years later, we started a new r/s.  She knew she didn't have to pretend to be anyone, she didn't have to wear a mask with me.  She chose to do so anyway, that's how we came to be again.  She seemed so grounded and self aware of her condition.  She was also medicated and had told me she had been through 'intensive therapy' (i.e. DBT).  It turns out, in the end, she was medicated but that she had been seeing a counselor (she had never been through DBT).

So, she knew she didn't have to pretend with me, but she chose to.  She chose to more or less pretend with me the entire year we were back together.  So knowing they have it in the end doesn't matter.

If I could go back 4 years ago with the knowledge I have now, I'd tell myself to be friends with her (she's still a human being) but don't ever consider being more with her.  I took a second shot at the goal with her and it bit me now just like it did then.  That's my fault (and some of hers by presenting herself the way she did).  

It won't happen again.

Mine was diagnosed in June, after a suicide attempt.  I've been through all of it with her, the very good and the very, very bad.  And yet, like you said, she still wears a mask around me.  She doesn't have to pretend with me.  She doesn't have to put those walls up.  But she does. 

[Learning_curve74]

To turn this question around, do you feel differently about yourself now that you know you were in a relationship with somebody with BPD? Are you a different person in positive or negative ways? What are you doing about it?

My exgf told me about her BPD about 2 months after we started spending all our time together. To be honest I was somewhat relieved and was about to "run" but decided instead to try. We broke up the first year, spent time apart, got back together,  and then broke up again a couple years later.

I don't regret trying to have a healthy fulfilling relationship with a person I loved so much. I learned a lot about myself. I also learned a lot about what I want in a relationship. My only regrets are the time and money I invested in our relationship that I cannot get back. But that goes for anything in life that doesn't end up the way you were hoping for.

[thisworld]

I feel very good that I managed to get out quickly because I come from an emotionally abusive background and was prone to staying in toxic relationships for longer. I believe we are a different person both negatively and positively after every relationship. Whether that changes our core sense of self is unique to everyone I guess. I'm thinking about my own attitudes that made me agree to have this relationship without beating myself down and focusing on learning to ask more questions in the initial stages of knowing someone rather than assuming that certain concepts mean the same thing for everyone.

[tarantula17]

I would have taken it A LOT slower.  I wouldn't have minded years' worth of time spent for my husband to get well before we lived life together.

But I am where I am now, so why look back?  I can only look forward at this point and forward is hard to perceive right now.

[troisette]

No, I'd have run as fast as I could in the opposite direction.

Still tees me off that, having been married to a narcissist, I knew nothing about BPD and didn't recognise the disorder. I thought I was well prepared after a narcissistic husband but although exBPD has narcissistic tendencies, they manifest in a different way and I fell... .hope I'm more wary and more wise in the future.

[anxiety5]

No. I think everyone should answer no to that. If you answer anything BUT no to that, than you still don't understand the dynamic of what you are dealing with, you aren't putting your needs first, and you are trying to fix someone that can't be fixed.

I had NO IDEA what BPD was. I just knew there was something very very very wrong.

[NCEA]

As I wrote in my story thread, the first thing she told me was "I have a boyfriend who doesn't know we broke up yet and 5 lovers, all married". If it was a date with some random girl, I'd have smiled, asked for the check, and run away.

But she was visiting me from another country and we spent 9 days together, 24/7, and it was magical. By the time she left I was hooked.

If it would happen today I'd probably be much more careful. The problem is that I'm too sensitive. A couple of weeks ago I ditched a date because the girl was 7 minutes late and I considered it disrespectful.

Yes, 7 minutes.

[thisworld]

In what way is being too sensitive a problem?

[Heartbroken19]

Knowing what I know now and what I've been through especially if not in treatment, then no I would not have gone into a relationship with him and I certainly wouldn't have married him either.

I wouldn't wish what has happened to us on my worst enemy I finally had to leave him after a 9 year relationship - (5 of those married).  I love the bones if him but his illness and refusal to get treatment (his denial he was sick at all) finally destroyed us. I would give anything to make him well again but it becomes draining emotionally and physically when he makes no attempt to help himself. 

[Lonely_Astro]

To turn this question around, do you feel differently about yourself now that you know you were in a relationship with somebody with BPD? Are you a different person in positive or negative ways? What are you doing about it?

My exgf told me about her BPD about 2 months after we started spending all our time together. To be honest I was somewhat relieved and was about to "run" but decided instead to try. We broke up the first year, spent time apart, got back together,  and then broke up again a couple years later.

I don't regret trying to have a healthy fulfilling relationship with a person I loved so much. I learned a lot about myself. I also learned a lot about what I want in a relationship. My only regrets are the time and money I invested in our relationship that I cannot get back. But that goes for anything in life that doesn't end up the way you were hoping for.

I am both more positive and more negative.  I, like you, agreed to give it another shot because I was more educated about BPD the second time and she was grounded.  Or so it seemed.  There were great times, bad times too.  More bad toward the end than good ones of course.  As it turns out, I was more played the second time around than I had thought.  She had me hoodwinked in a couple of areas I didn't think so.  Luckily for me, only my time was invested in the r/s.  Sure, I bought her lunch, dinners, trinkets, etc. but nothing expensive.  I wasn't going to invest that kind of money on a 'maybe' r/s from the start. 

Don't get me wrong, I was always in the back of my mind unsure if she was lying about if she was 'better' or not.  I told myself I'd go as far as the first oddity and then I was out, but when it happened, I didn't jump ship.  I thought I was being hypersensitive.  As it turned out (later, I found out), I should've pulled the rip chord way back then.  C'est la vie.

If I don't think/focus on the bad stuff, I can say that J and I had a good year.  We laughed, played, and enjoyed each other's company.  There were many laughs, but also many tears.  I gave it my best shot, given our circumstances, but that sunset has came and went.  I am going through my own night, but dawn will come soon enough.

[Thread]

If I had been fully educated on the disorder, no I wouldn't have, because then I would have known when the reality of it came I would have know that was the Bpd characteristics and not just a bad day or an off moment. I would have followed through with breaking up with him the three times I tried.

[VitaminC]

... .I would have known when the reality of it came I would have know that was the Bpd characteristics and not just a bad day or an off moment.

That's exactly the point. IF one were fully educated on this particular disorder THEN one would see more clearly what is actually happening and THEN one could do as a previous poster said:

"Having a successful relationship with someone who is suffering from a disorder requires a highly developed emotional  intelligence, finely tuned communication skills and rock solid boundaries."

{sorry, I copied this because it was such a good sentence and am not quoting, as I should}

Add to the above formula an awareness of one's own pathologies (or mechanisms, etc) and THEN you have a chance, maybe. 

The switches in focus, the changes in mood, the closeness followed by sudden distance - all the things I perceived and tried to understand rationally, reacted to in various (unhelpful & emotional) ways, and was wounded by - all those things are explained via the disorder. Everyone is capable of all those kinds of actions and reactions; they are not necessarily a diagnosable pathology, but as we all know, it's a question of degree and patterns that go way back and are endlessly repeated.

Instead of staying intrigued and hanging around an enigma and letting myself get further and further sucked in to eventual circular and crazy discussions, IF I had known about the disorder, I would have known to throw up my hands and say "nope, this one needs a professional and I am not one, so I'm done".

[Lonely_Astro]

... .I would have known when the reality of it came I would have know that was the Bpd characteristics and not just a bad day or an off moment.

That's exactly the point. IF one were fully educated on this particular disorder THEN one would see more clearly what is actually happening and THEN one could do as a previous poster said:

"Having a successful relationship with someone who is suffering from a disorder requires a highly developed emotional  intelligence, finely tuned communication skills and rock solid boundaries."

{sorry, I copied this because it was such a good sentence and am not quoting, as I should}

Add to the above formula an awareness of one's own pathologies (or mechanisms, etc) and THEN you have a chance, maybe. 

The switches in focus, the changes in mood, the closeness followed by sudden distance - all the things I perceived and tried to understand rationally, reacted to in various (unhelpful & emotional) ways, and was wounded by - all those things are explained via the disorder. Everyone is capable of all those kinds of actions and reactions; they are not necessarily a diagnosable pathology, but as we all know, it's a question of degree and patterns that go way back and are endlessly repeated.

Instead of staying intrigued and hanging around an enigma and letting myself get further and further sucked in to eventual circular and crazy discussions, IF I had known about the disorder, I would have known to throw up my hands and say "nope, this one needs a professional and I am not one, so I'm done".

Even going in fully prepared is pretty much useless.  J and I had many many discussions about our past and her BPD.  We set out guidelines as a "just in case" measure if she started showing (prolonged) traits and how to approach those moments.  She told me she was on meds and had intensive therapy for her BPD (I directly asked if it was dbt, she said it had been).  All those talks, measures, and safeguards were for nothing.  She lied about "intensive therapy" (she was seeing a counselor) and she stopped going a couple of months into our r/s. 

When traits starting coming, I went to our guidelines and she got mad.  I tried my hardest to work through it, but it didn't matter.  This past year was a rough one and I can now see how much she used me, lied to me, manipulated me, and abused me.  Oh, it's all my fault, too because I agreed to be in a r/s with her.  At the very end, she said to me (after 3 months of pushing me away, days of ST, dating another guy) "I can't and won't make you any promises.  You don't deserve to be hurt and need to do what's best for you."   When I told her I was leaving, her response was "that's your decision, I understand, I'm not with R (the guy she's been dating while I was in limbo) but ok."  So, it's still my fault I'm walking away.

Welcome to BPD.

[thisworld]

"Having a successful relationship with someone who is suffering from a disorder requires a highly developed emotional  intelligence, finely tuned communication skills and rock solid boundaries."

{sorry, I copied this because it was such a good sentence and am not quoting, as I should}

Add to the above formula an awareness of one's own pathologies (or mechanisms, etc) and THEN you have a chance, maybe.  

I personally don't believe that these would create the intimacy I wish to find in a relationship. My partner was incapable of that and that wasn't caused by anything I did or did not do really. Sure I did contribute to the situation; I existed in that dynamic, too. However, his inner mechanisms that prevented healthy intimacy were established long before me and are not fully dependent on what we are describing above. I don't call any relationship without a good level of empathy from both partners and intimacy successful. Also, with whom? Other than what I saw in the mirroring stage, I don't know this guy. He doesn't either. He is like a chameleon. It's my fantasy that the one I know is the real one. Actually, all females around him are probably thinking like that. Who would I be trying for really? I think it's also a fantasy of ours to think that people will discover or cultivate their real selves and personalities through years of therapy and will certainly want to stay with us (or us with them). Maybe he will be healthier but a completely different person and we will have nothing that appeals to each other.

[thisworld]

Little technical problem. The last paragraph above is my comment, I just couldn't separate it from the rest.

[troisette]

Yes, agree thisworld.

To commit to a relationship knowing that the other has BPD is committing yourself to a life where their emotional needs remain paramount.

Even if they are committed to therapy, and if the therapy is successful, there is always a possibility that under stress they will regress. And if the therapy is successful you may not find them as attractive, due to your original reasons for becoming enmeshed. And if that doesn't happen, if the  therapy is successful, you may find them moving on to someone else.

Which to me, means a life of walking on eggshells... .

[thisworld]

Exactly, Troisette. And then I will probably have to go back to healing, this time dealing with difficult feelings about what I then see as a life, a decade wasted on someone's issues. While I'm healing, AGAIN, he will probably be dating people 20 years younger than him, a route that will probably and mostly be closed to me due to gender disadvantages (maybe it's different in the US, I don't know). In my experience, men are able to start from scratch more easily in these things. I know that I'll regret what has happened. Also, healing is good but I don't want to be only healing all the time, I want to live my life a little bit:)) I believe I won't be utterly unhealthy with a relatively healthy person. I don't only consist of healing:)) And all this, if I don't get a chronic illness or something really. We think our bodies are invulnerable. What if I become a chronic pain patient because of stress? Not improbable in my case. I believe boundaries do not only consist of emotional things. My body, my health is my biggest boundary. I should remember that. (I have a bad but very informative experience about this actually, I shouldn't forget that.) I look at our photographs with the guy. I look so worn out. People tell me my skin is better, my expression is calmer already. My eye bags are smaller, I look healthier. I am healthier. I think this is important (especially the photograph bit  I'll practice my right to protect myself from future trauma.

And good luck tomorrow 

[troisette]

Thanks thisworld. I'm stressed about tonight and yes, my back is very painful  since I met Chief Narcissistic Supply. Stress = Tension = Pain = Possibly something worse. So you are wise to keep clear. Same with me about the photos - he's a photographer but every pic of me shows a tight jaw and worried eyes. Even when I'm smiling.

Roll on 2016, quiet retreat and relax! 

[UVA2002]

No. No. No. She actually informed me of BPD in the beginning but gave very limited info. She size she was dealing with issues and so on and the BPD. I don't judge so I thought ok no biggie she working on it so it'll be fine. I wished I would have researched more I would have seen her intentions better.

[Thread]

Vitaminc - perfectly stated bravo!

Instead of staying intrigued and hanging around an enigma and letting myself get further and further sucked in to eventual circular and crazy discussions, IF I had known about the disorder, I would have known to throw up my hands and say "nope, this one needs a professional and I am not one, so I'm done".

[steve195915]

No. No. No. She actually informed me of BPD in the beginning but gave very limited info. She size she was dealing with issues and so on and the BPD. I don't judge so I thought ok no biggie she working on it so it'll be fine. I wished I would have researched more I would have seen her intentions better.

Really your answer was YES YES YES since you knew she had BPD and you still chose to be with her.  I don't think anyone of us can comprehend the capabilities of a pwBPD without having to live through a relationship with one.  Even if I researched BPD when I met my ex, I still would have gotten into a relationship with her because I don't think I could have understood or acknowledged what she was capable of.  Plus she seemed so perfect when I met her, she said all the right things.  There's no way I would have believed she could do all the horrible actions she ultimately did.

Plus all pwBPD do not have the same intensity of the illness and don't exhibit all the same traits.  Some cheat, some don't, some cut, some don't, some have extreme anger bouts with physical violence, some don't... .   We may be smarter now and run if we meet another with BPD but I bet a lot of us would still start a relationship if we were really attracted to the person and just tell ourselves that we will be more cautious and not fall so quickly, especially if they said they are going to therapy to fix themselves.

[Lonely_Astro]

No. No. No. She actually informed me of BPD in the beginning but gave very limited info. She size she was dealing with issues and so on and the BPD. I don't judge so I thought ok no biggie she working on it so it'll be fine. I wished I would have researched more I would have seen her intentions better.

Really your answer was YES YES YES since you knew she had BPD and you still chose to be with her.  I don't think anyone of us can comprehend the capabilities of a pwBPD without having to live through a relationship with one.  Even if I researched BPD when I met my ex, I still would have gotten into a relationship with her because I don't think I could have understood or acknowledged what she was capable of.  Plus she seemed so perfect when I met her, she said all the right things.  There's no way I would have believed she could do all the horrible actions she ultimately did.

Plus all pwBPD do not have the same intensity of the illness and don't exhibit all the same traits.  Some cheat, some don't, some cut, some don't, some have extreme anger bouts with physical violence, some don't... .   We may be smarter now and run if we meet another with BPD but I bet a lot of us would still start a relationship if we were really attracted to the person and just tell ourselves that we will be more cautious and not fall so quickly, especially if they said they are going to therapy to fix themselves.

This is exactly what I did.  I didn't hate J (and still don't).  I told myself that I would be more cautious and at the first sight of "oddities", I would leave.  I didn't.  I kept going under an illusion.  She was lying to me at the beginning, claims she fully committed to me, but at the same time she wasn't.  We had lengthy, in depth talks about our past and my hesitations of a r/s with her.  She assured me she was managed (through meds and therapy).  I bought into that.  That may have been true at the very start, but it didn't stay true long. 

I've had several blunt conversations with J over the past several days.  She is 100% convinced that I am leaving her (and this r/s).  She admits to me that she knows her actions are the cause and yet I see moments of "oh well" on her face.  She said to me that she knew I'd never trust her and she was also afraid of herself (and what she would do to me) if we tried to make it work.  I, reluctantly, have to agree with her on that level.  I also have to keep in mind that the J I am seeing right now may or may not be the J I "know".  What do I mean?  I mean that she may be so candid with me and so open as a ploy to get me to stick around all the while she has other irons in the fire.  It's a shame I'm thinking like that, isn't it?  I mean, what if I'm wrong?  What if we could make it work (and be somewhat successful)?  Then again, what if it's an intentional or unintentional ruse?

That's the problem, isn't it, the unknown?

[Fr4nz]

Just out of curiosity. Imagine you met your partner and they were as attractive and charming as they were during the mirroring stage. But you knew that they had BPD and somehow had read everything you see here on bPD family. You also knew that this person was not in therapy. Would you start a relationship with them despite the charm?   

Well, a relationship no, but I'd stay with them for having fun and spend good times... .oh, and always treating them with respect

[bAlex]

Yes. I just would have handled things differently. I didn't understand any of it at the time and I know I could have made better choices regarding how I reacted to things... I believe it would have made all the difference. Life would have been easier just by knowing.

[Lonely_Astro]

Yes. I just would have handled things differently. I didn't understand any of it at the time and I know I could have made better choices regarding how I reacted to things... I believe it would have made all the difference. Life would have been easier just by knowing.

I knew, going in the second time.  J is diagnosed, on meds, and is 3 months into DBT. 

It didn't make a difference.  She still lied, cheated (at least on an emotional level, physical is debatable), manipulated, triangulated, and emotionally abused me for most of our 1 year r/s.

Life wasn't easier by knowing.  Granted she and I had a history to start with, so perhaps that's why I never 100% trusted her.  But, it turned out that my gut was right not to.  Still, take peace in knowing that going in fully armed with the knowledge of what BPD is, the outcome is probably going to be the same.

[bAlex]

Yes. I just would have handled things differently. I didn't understand any of it at the time and I know I could have made better choices regarding how I reacted to things... I believe it would have made all the difference. Life would have been easier just by knowing.

I knew, going in the second time.  J is diagnosed, on meds, and is 3 months into DBT. 

It didn't make a difference.  She still lied, cheated (at least on an emotional level, physical is debatable), manipulated, triangulated, and emotionally abused me for most of our 1 year r/s.

Life wasn't easier by knowing.  Granted she and I had a history to start with, so perhaps that's why I never 100% trusted her.  But, it turned out that my gut was right not to.  Still, take peace in knowing that going in fully armed with the knowledge of what BPD is, the outcome is probably going to be the same.

Maybe man, I dunno anymore really. Some days I would agree with you, some days not... Although I know that I wasn't really responsible for any of it, I think that if I just responded in a better way to whatever the issue was she wouldn't have lost respect for me... I sometimes get jealous of the idea that just maybe the new guy is doing everything right and they're happy as can be. It's unlikely to be true given her history, but there's doubt sometimes, is she REALLY that bad? 

[Lonely_Astro]

Yes. I just would have handled things differently. I didn't understand any of it at the time and I know I could have made better choices regarding how I reacted to things... I believe it would have made all the difference. Life would have been easier just by knowing.

I knew, going in the second time.  J is diagnosed, on meds, and is 3 months into DBT. 

It didn't make a difference.  She still lied, cheated (at least on an emotional level, physical is debatable), manipulated, triangulated, and emotionally abused me for most of our 1 year r/s.

Life wasn't easier by knowing.  Granted she and I had a history to start with, so perhaps that's why I never 100% trusted her.  But, it turned out that my gut was right not to.  Still, take peace in knowing that going in fully armed with the knowledge of what BPD is, the outcome is probably going to be the same.

Maybe man, I dunno anymore really. Some days I would agree with you, some days not... Although I know that I wasn't really responsible for any of it, I think that if I just responded in a better way to whatever the issue was she wouldn't have lost respect for me... I sometimes get jealous of the idea that just maybe the new guy is doing everything right and they're happy as can be. It's unlikely to be true given her history, but there's doubt sometimes, is she REALLY that bad? 

I understand what you're going through.  I said that to myself, too.  Logically I know that J isn't "better" and may love me in her way but her way is unhealthy.  She's seemed so lucid these past few days that I've questioned whether or not I'm making the right decision to force NC (for at least 2 months).  Honestly I suspect we won't talk to each other after that time for a couple of reasons: the FOG will lift and she'll be in a new r/s by that point.  I give her less than a week of us being NC before she announces to everyone she's dating/seeing someone because she's now officially on the market again (divorce from M is final from what I can tell).

I'm also gone, so that leaves her "guilt free" to do as she pleases.  She would justify it to me by saying that I chose to leave so she had to move on to (regardless of how/why I left, I left and therefore it's my fault).  Will the new guy do better with her?  On its face, yes, but below the surface she'll still be the mentally ill person she is and eventually it'll come crashing down around him too.  Sure, she's in DBT but that's no guarantee.  So far I know she's skipped several appointments (yesterday she told me she was supposed to go but decided not to because she wanted to go get her nails done instead) which tells me she's not really serious about it.

It doesn't matter how you would've responded to her behavior.  You still would've ended up here.  Trust me.

[Welgrow]

Maybe man, I dunno anymore really. Some days I would agree with you, some days not... Although I know that I wasn't really responsible for any of it, I think that if I just responded in a better way to whatever the issue was she wouldn't have lost respect for me... I sometimes get jealous of the idea that just maybe the new guy is doing everything right and they're happy as can be. It's unlikely to be true given her history, but there's doubt sometimes, is she REALLY that bad?  [/quote]
My friend, the doubt and second guessing seem to be part of our issues that need healing. I am realizing more and more that my childhood conditioned me to do what you're describing. I want to believe that my former gal might just be alright and just had a bad stretch. I think that maybe I could have done something different. I either block out or try to explain away the unacceptable behaviors. Yesterday, my mom described to me some events from my childhood. She told me a number of stories involving my alcoholic father that were clear cases of abuse and neglect. I blocked them out and clung to the good memories. I can only muster a few of the scary memories. I am conditioned to block out the negative junk about the people I love. I learned that as a survival mechanism with my father. The most painful memory I can remember was when my father got sober and then divorced my mom and moved away. He left us and we rarely saw him. I have my own set of abandonment issues and luckily I ended up becoming the codependent rescuer instead of becoming borderline. I really think this is an opportunity for you and I and all of us to do our respective self searching so that we can become whole people and find the love and happiness we crave. But in the meantime this emotional pain sucks. The crying fits and loneliness. Dredging up painful memories from my past. Geez I wish this was easier. Happy New Year everyone.

[blanchard]

Never.

Years suffering from osmotic diarrhea would have been more life-enhancing than my brush with BPD; there are some life lessons that are best avoided. 

[bAlex]

Yes. I just would have handled things differently. I didn't understand any of it at the time and I know I could have made better choices regarding how I reacted to things... I believe it would have made all the difference. Life would have been easier just by knowing.

I knew, going in the second time.  J is diagnosed, on meds, and is 3 months into DBT. 

It didn't make a difference.  She still lied, cheated (at least on an emotional level, physical is debatable), manipulated, triangulated, and emotionally abused me for most of our 1 year r/s.

Life wasn't easier by knowing.  Granted she and I had a history to start with, so perhaps that's why I never 100% trusted her.  But, it turned out that my gut was right not to.  Still, take peace in knowing that going in fully armed with the knowledge of what BPD is, the outcome is probably going to be the same.

Maybe man, I dunno anymore really. Some days I would agree with you, some days not... Although I know that I wasn't really responsible for any of it, I think that if I just responded in a better way to whatever the issue was she wouldn't have lost respect for me... I sometimes get jealous of the idea that just maybe the new guy is doing everything right and they're happy as can be. It's unlikely to be true given her history, but there's doubt sometimes, is she REALLY that bad? 

I understand what you're going through.  I said that to myself, too.  Logically I know that J isn't "better" and may love me in her way but her way is unhealthy.  She's seemed so lucid these past few days that I've questioned whether or not I'm making the right decision to force NC (for at least 2 months).  Honestly I suspect we won't talk to each other after that time for a couple of reasons: the FOG will lift and she'll be in a new r/s by that point.  I give her less than a week of us being NC before she announces to everyone she's dating/seeing someone because she's now officially on the market again (divorce from M is final from what I can tell).

I'm also gone, so that leaves her "guilt free" to do as she pleases.  She would justify it to me by saying that I chose to leave so she had to move on to (regardless of how/why I left, I left and therefore it's my fault).  Will the new guy do better with her?  On its face, yes, but below the surface she'll still be the mentally ill person she is and eventually it'll come crashing down around him too.  Sure, she's in DBT but that's no guarantee.  So far I know she's skipped several appointments (yesterday she told me she was supposed to go but decided not to because she wanted to go get her nails done instead) which tells me she's not really serious about it.

It doesn't matter how you would've responded to her behavior.  You still would've ended up here.  Trust me.

I'm starting to think this too... No, actually I'm convinced of it. There is no happy ending with them, no matter what. I take back what I said, I would never have dated that b*tch if I knew about this stuff.

[bAlex]

Maybe man, I dunno anymore really. Some days I would agree with you, some days not... Although I know that I wasn't really responsible for any of it, I think that if I just responded in a better way to whatever the issue was she wouldn't have lost respect for me... I sometimes get jealous of the idea that just maybe the new guy is doing everything right and they're happy as can be. It's unlikely to be true given her history, but there's doubt sometimes, is she REALLY that bad? 

My friend, the doubt and second guessing seem to be part of our issues that need healing. I am realizing more and more that my childhood conditioned me to do what you're describing. I want to believe that my former gal might just be alright and just had a bad stretch. I think that maybe I could have done something different. I either block out or try to explain away the unacceptable behaviors. Yesterday, my mom described to me some events from my childhood. She told me a number of stories involving my alcoholic father that were clear cases of abuse and neglect. I blocked them out and clung to the good memories. I can only muster a few of the scary memories. I am conditioned to block out the negative junk about the people I love. I learned that as a survival mechanism with my father. The most painful memory I can remember was when my father got sober and then divorced my mom and moved away. He left us and we rarely saw him. I have my own set of abandonment issues and luckily I ended up becoming the codependent rescuer instead of becoming borderline. I really think this is an opportunity for you and I and all of us to do our respective self searching so that we can become whole people and find the love and happiness we crave. But in the meantime this emotional pain sucks. The crying fits and loneliness. Dredging up painful memories from my past. Geez I wish this was easier. Happy New Year everyone. [/quote]
Sorry to hear that. I'm sure it will get easier, one day we will look back and be like "really? I beat myself up over YOU? was I drunk?" There's no other option really, is there?

[zman]

Never.  After 2 BPD relationships in my life you would think I would have learned.  I stumbled onto the third BPD that I am in the middle of leaving.  In all cases after short time of dating or long distance "dating" I would commit or somehow tie myself to them (as in a 1 year apartment lease ).  Then I did everything I could to show my love to them and dig myself so deep but I would eventually prove to myself yes this is beyond repair.  Then I would have to dig myself out of a hole.  The holes have gotten less deep and less treacherous to climb out of.  But it is such a painful fall into the hole where my health, finances, friendships, and sense of self get damaged.  My first BPD was very low functioning, cutting, heavy drinking, can't keep a job, no penny to her name, cheating, violent.  Second was very high functioning, highly intelligent, educated, great credit score but still cheating, blaming, heavy drinking... .And the last one has done a ton of therapy on herself and is commited to therapy but I am not staying.  This is her own road and even though she believes she can heal and I have seen so much progress - disociation episodes are gone, she can say I am sorry, she can say I am sorry for a specific thing, she uses coping skills to calm herself down (coloring, walks, taking space, music, art, etc.), she can list her faults.  Listing her faults took forever like a year and what damaged me the most.  I finally realized maybe she is a visual learner and she can not learn with just talking.  So i drew a circle and split it down the middle.  Left was J's fault and right was Z's fault.  For weeks after an argument I would bring the circle.  For every thing I would do my best to write it down in my side of the circle and apologize and take accountability for what was my fault.  Well my half was so full and her half was blank empty - ZERO  Eventually, she threw my paper away.  But one day she came back with all her side filled out.  It was cathartic for me and I knew she was working so hard on this and how much courage it took to write it down and acknowledge.  She was shaking.  This happened after I repeatedly told her during previous weeks you are a good person and instead of shame you should stand so tall and be proud of what you have become and overcome.  She really  has made a ton of progress and I am so proud of her... .BUT my health has suffered and I have turned into her own on call therapist which is not what I signed up for.  I have my own dreams to chase and cant be putting so much emotional energy into the relationship at the cost of my health, sanity, friendships, and finances... .

I did encounter one BPD before her and I immediately saw through it all and I discontinued the dating even though there was a promise of wild nights . I know it is difficult with raging hormones.  

I am sorry for such a long post but NO I would not engage with a BPD if I knew apriori.  I would open a clinic and make that my profession if that was my life's dream and it is not and I am not even remotely strong enough emotionally for that.

[thisworld]

Never.

Years suffering from osmotic diarrhea would have been more life-enhancing than my brush with BPD; there are some life lessons that are best avoided. 

How ironic is it that when I first read "years suffering for osmotic diarrhea" I immediately perceived it as an apt metaphor for a BPD relationship.

[bAlex]

Never.

Years suffering from osmotic diarrhea would have been more life-enhancing than my brush with BPD; there are some life lessons that are best avoided. 

Amen brotha!

[Invictus01]

Nope. If I knew what it is and all details and all that... .would have walked away immediately.

[anxiety5]

The only person who would agree to be with someone who has BPD and you had extreme awareness of it would be a text book masochist or someone who is lost.  

When someone with a BPD enduring abuse says "I love them" It's evident that you truly have no concept of what love is or you have no self respect. I don't mean that disrespectfully I was there. I was that person. I accepted her cheating, her verbal abuse, the mood shifts, the episodes and being treated like garbage.

Unless you are a masochist who would agree to this? It's abuse and an unwinnable situation with a sum game of zero to you. Love her and she will devalue you. Don't love her and she will manipulate you into loving her so that she can devalue you. Co-dependence is a nasty thing. It can be fixed but your willingness to tolerate abuse is in direct proportion to how bad YOUR co-dependence issues are.

I was gas lit, manipulated, lied to and naive as hell. I knew nothing of this stuff. I took people at their face value and never thought in a million years someone could behave the way she did. If I had known that there is no way in hell I would have ever even spoken to her let alone agree to be with her.

[grumpydonut]

I believe hindsight bias is always going to play its part here.

Who I was before the relationship is not who I am now. I was not privy to the destruction a BPD can cause, and I believe I still would have dated her if I had have been alive to the truths of BPD.

That said, those of us who stick around with a BPD are - mostly - dealing with unconscious issues of our own that make us vulnerable to the lures of those with BPD.

I, for instance, felt unloved and unworthy at my core - thus I was drawn in by the infatuation.

I felt not enough for my Mum as a child, as she loved her new partner. Thus when I was cheated on, it drew me back into these feelings and I masochistically enjoyed it, while I wanted to prove I was enough!

We all have our reasons for staying with these monsters (yes, they are hurt and disordered, but there is nothing "hateful" for pointing out that their actions make them monstrous individuals), and that is the part of the dance we must a) take responsibility for b) work to fix so we aren't drawn into relationships with these sort again.

Since my ex with BPD and I broke up in March, I have found myself attracted to another BPD and also went on a date with a third. Are they just that good at picking people like me, or am I a wilful victim? (Hint, it's the latter until I fix the underlying issues).

[dindin]

I moght be one of the few, but my exBPD, to her credit, told me about the diagnosis on the second date.

Now, I read about it, saw videos, etc., and I said well ok, this cant be that bad... Despite knowing about it, I had no idea what was coming.

In my opinion, the reality of the disorder is much much different than the intellectual understanding. For someone who hasnt been around symptoms as they present in real life, it's so hard to understand. Unless youre a psychologist who has seen it clinically, nothing can prepare you for it.

[Goosey]

What a great question!
   I’ll ponder on it.
I hope it doesn’t fall into the rumination category because I have a full time job with those thoughts as it is.

[Football2000]

Man, I think about this all the time. I do think that if I went back in time and told my younger self everything I know now, my younger self might not get into the relationship in the first place.

[Goosey]

What came first. The chicken or the egg.

[Goosey]

This thread got reinstated after like five years.
Not that that matters.
But let’s hope whomever started it made it through.
  Anyway absolutely I would do it again.
I got a daughter from it and she is smart and intuitive and has tolerated my despondent times through this mess.
She is well aware of her mother’s issues. She handles it like a pro and has a full life with people who love and respect her.
  She is a spitfire and barely tolerates my bouts of feeling blue or self pity. And she is right. It’ is what it is.
So yes absolutely I would do it again back then.
Just won’t do it again now

[quiller]

ONLY UNTIL THE FIRST DISCARD!
the sex and affection was great and would do that again in a sheartbeat. knowing that this illness is a cycle - i don't know if I would have put in the 8 years I did.
The pain of the discard is overwhelming.

[Abazaba]

Not a chance! I would have RAN. I wasted 6 years...the prime of my life (25 to 32) when I could have met a perfectly nice guy. I had no clue what BPD was. I didn’t even know what a personality disorder was. His entire family just told me he had a bit of a temper. I believed it. I constantly asked myself what I was doing wrong to cause all the drama and kept staying and trying to make it work.

I only found out about BPD 4 months ago. It has explained EVERYTHING. It made me realize that it was never about what I should or shouldn’t do to make it work. I was stuck in an impossible situation. So no, if I knew about BPD I would not have thought it was me. I would not have held on to the story that we just have “communication issues,” and I wouldn’t have questioned myself. I would have RAN the first time he had a temper tantrum and spared myself PTSD and 6 years down the drain.

[B53]

Not a chance in hell. I’m not a masochist.