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How to communicate after a contentious divorce... Following a contentious divorce and custody battle, there are often high emotion and tensions between the parents. Research shows that constant and chronic conflict between the parents negatively impacts the children. The children sense their parents anxiety in their voice, their body language and their parents behavior. Here are some suggestions from Dean Stacer on how to avoid conflict.
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Author Topic: Years Later  (Read 4922 times)
Jonathan Ricciardi
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« on: February 12, 2016, 07:35:56 AM »

I was stonewalled by my ex, I know she hates me.  People don't just shun someone they love for 3 years.  My question is this, I have seen people who said they have had their ex comeback after 3 years, I would like to know how?  If you have no contact for 3 plus years, how do they know how to find you? How did they get back into your life? do they act like nothing happened?
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C.Stein
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« Reply #1 on: February 12, 2016, 08:15:38 AM »

People don't just shun someone they love for 3 years.

What makes you think she loves you ... .especially after 3 years?  Why are you waiting for her to come back?

My ex threw me away like a piece of trash but not before she replaced me.  She has completely deleted me from her life like I never existed.  Yet at one time she felt I was the love of her life and that if it wasn't me it would be no one ... .and she said as much.   Does it make sense ... .NO!  Is her behavior logical or rational ... .NO!  What can I do about it ... .NOTHING!  She has completely turned her back on me in every way possible and "moved on" ... .and it hurts like hell!

Fact of the matter is she is gone and the chances of her ever coming back or ever contacting me again are slim to none, even if I wanted it which a small part of me does. 

Why is this?  I believe I have become a mirror to her true self.  When she thinks of me she is reminded of all the bad things she did and it causes a tremendous amount of shame and guilt.  In order for her to avoid those feelings, to make herself feel like she is not a bad person I am relatively certain I have been painted the blackest of blacks.  She has blamed me for all the things she did wrong therefore avoiding any direct responsibility for both her actions, consequences of those actions and the destruction of the relationship.  It is easier for her to blame me and run away to never look back because looking back would mean she has to face her true self and that is just not going to happen.

Even if by some miracle she were to finally accept responsibility for what she did, to be self-aware (which I know she is capable of) and could find a way to face me, or even write me, she won't.  Her shame and fear of rejection will keep her away forever.

Yes, it is cold-hearted and even cruel but it's what she needs to do in order to survive.  I'm not going to even pretend that I can understand it because I am not her.  The only option I have left is to find a way to accept what has happened, to accept she is not capable of keeping her "dark side" suppressed, to accept she is not capable of being in or sustaining a healthy relationship based on love, respect, honesty and caring.

So yea man, I get it.  It hurts like hell and it is damned frustrating to not have answers.  There is no one here, or anywhere, that can answer your questions with any amount of certainty.  Sure you can speculate till the cows come home but you will never know anything with 100% certainty.  This is something you have to accept ... .just like I have to find a way to accept ... .just like many on this board have to accept. 

If you want speculation then here you go.  It is relatively easy to track someone down on the internet, especially if you fork out some money.  Then they can reach out to you via whatever communication method is available.  And yes, more likely than not it will be like nothing ever happened because that is the way it works, not only with pwBPD but with pretty much anyone.
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Jonathan Ricciardi
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« Reply #2 on: February 12, 2016, 08:25:26 AM »

You're having a tough time reading my posts, I never said she loved me after 3 years, I said she hates me.  I have accepted that.

Everything on this board is speculation... .nothing is based in fact.  You have your speculations on why she left, they are great observations on your part, and I can tell you're a smart, educated human being.  But you know what, you have no idea what really happened. 

I'm sorry your ex stonewalled you, trust me it hurts.

Asking why I want her to comeback is a great question, I have no idea.  But, she is moving on and that's great.  She has every right to dump me at any time.  Ignore me for the rest of her life.  I don't dispute any of that.

Why does your ex have to have BPD, she found someone else, very common, doesn't mean she is BPD.  If she is still in a relationship, maybe she is with person meant to be with.
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C.Stein
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« Reply #3 on: February 12, 2016, 08:46:55 AM »

Everything on this board is speculation... .nothing is based in fact.

When you are trying to dissect what another person is thinking and feeling, especially one that is disordered, you are absolutely correct ... .everything is speculation.  That said, there are many facts to be found on this site as well.

A formal diagnosis is the only way to be relatively certain someone suffers from a PD, regardless of what it is.  You can however look at behavioral patterns and make an "educated" guess as to why a person behaves in such a confusing and destructive manner.  For me, I have taken numerous different screening tests, at different times, using my knowledge of my ex to determine the likelihood of her suffering from BPD.  Every test I took and every time I took it the results showed she is probably suffering from BPD and should seek a formal diagnosis.  So that coupled with behavioral similarities with people who have been diagnosed leads me to the conclusion that it is highly likely she is suffering from BPD on at least some level.   Even with all that the doubt still remains in my mind as my ex is not one of the "extreme" cases.

What does this all boil down to?  The fact of the matter here is I will never get satisfactory answers to my questions ... .nor will you ever get satisfactory answers to your questions.    You need to find a way to provide your own answers and closure, which is why you are on this board.  You will never find the magic bullet that peeks into your ex's mind and gives you that ah-ha moment ... .not here ... .not anywhere.
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Jonathan Ricciardi
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« Reply #4 on: February 12, 2016, 08:53:54 AM »

I've also accepted she's not coming back.  I know it's over.  I totally respect all the homework and foot pounding you have done, I really do.  I can tell you're a smart person, but how can you just decide to write your own conclusions, that are based on observations and books? You have invested a lot of time into someone who has no interest in you.  I'm in the same boat, and I feel that I'm the one who is ill.  Normal people don't care this much.
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« Reply #5 on: February 12, 2016, 09:00:33 AM »

I was stonewalled by my ex, I know she hates me.  People don't just shun someone they love for 3 years.  My question is this, I have seen people who said they have had their ex comeback after 3 years, I would like to know how?  If you have no contact for 3 plus years, how do they know how to find you? How did they get back into your life? do they act like nothing happened?

My two cents of speculated educated guess based on my experience and what I've read on BPD. At some point they do what is called splitting. They behave as if you have never exited. Actually what happens is they paint you black for no apparent reason. In reality it's their sickness doing it.

Now, all of us, not only pwBPD, have our moments when we are fed up with some behaviors or people, but normally it is never strong, nor worrying to the point to split the person nor something that lasts. We have our what we call ups and downs, our swinging moods. But in case of a borderline, those swingings are so strong that it affects their emotions. Think of a 3-year old child who one day likes his new toy and genuinely thinks it will be his favorite toy ever. But few days later, all of sudden his/her excitement for the new toy fades and never plays with it again. I don't know if this example is a good one, but it can pretty much illustrate that their feelings at the time of loving is genuine, but cannot be trusted when they say it's forever.

Now, regarding coming back would be the same wild guess as to ask a three year old child if he/she would be as excited as he/she used to be to see back the toy he/she had already played with.    
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C.Stein
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« Reply #6 on: February 12, 2016, 09:00:49 AM »

how can you just decide to write your own conclusions, that are based on observations and books?

Because I have no other choice.  I am also still struggling with it, more than I care to admit.
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Jonathan Ricciardi
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« Reply #7 on: February 12, 2016, 09:07:40 AM »

Isn't painting someone black, just another term, for silent treatment, ghosting, ostracizing, stonewalling? Changing the wording doesn't change the situation. 
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C.Stein
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« Reply #8 on: February 12, 2016, 09:10:01 AM »

Isn't painting someone black, just another term, for silent treatment, ghosting, ostracizing, stonewalling?

No, it is not.
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Jonathan Ricciardi
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« Reply #9 on: February 12, 2016, 09:12:51 AM »

I think you need to do some homework, ghosting, silent treatment, stonewalling, painting someone black, all have the same result, no acknowledgement.
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« Reply #10 on: February 12, 2016, 09:15:08 AM »

Isn't painting someone black, just another term, for silent treatment, ghosting, ostracizing, stonewalling? Changing the wording doesn't change the situation. 

No, painting you black means that a pwBPD will hold you responsible for all the negative things. They can even make up things that you actually never did. It's their moment of hate phase, as they are unable to think in shades. It's all black or white. Either you're THE angel or THE devil to them.
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« Reply #11 on: February 12, 2016, 09:21:32 AM »

People don't just shun someone they love for 3 years.

Fact of the matter is she is gone and the chances of her ever coming back or ever contacting me again are slim to none, even if I wanted it which a small part of me does. 

Why is this?  I believe I have become a mirror to her true self.  When she thinks of me she is reminded of all the bad things she did and it causes a tremendous amount of shame and guilt.  In order for her to avoid those feelings, to make herself feel like she is not a bad person I am relatively certain I have been painted the blackest of blacks.  She has blamed me for all the things she did wrong therefore avoiding any direct responsibility for both her actions, consequences of those actions and the destruction of the relationship.  It is easier for her to blame me and run away to never look back because looking back would mean she has to face her true self and that is just not going to happen.

Even if by some miracle she were to finally accept responsibility for what she did, to be self-aware (which I know she is capable of) and could find a way to face me, or even write me, she won't.  Her shame and fear of rejection will keep her away forever.

Yes, it is cold-hearted and even cruel but it's what she needs to do in order to survive.  I'm not going to even pretend that I can understand it because I am not her.  The only option I have left is to find a way to accept what has happened, to accept she is not capable of keeping her "dark side" suppressed, to accept she is not capable of being in or sustaining a healthy relationship based on love, respect, honesty and caring.

AMEN!
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« Reply #12 on: February 12, 2016, 09:34:23 AM »

I think you need to do some homework, ghosting, silent treatment, stonewalling, painting someone black, all have the same result, no acknowledgement.

Painting someone black is not the same as ghosting, etc... . It is basically a projection of your own faults and actions onto another person.  In the case of the pwBPD, specifically my ex, she does it because she can not accept responsibility for her hurtful actions.  She needs an excuse, some way to justify her actions in her own mind.  This usually comes via projection and painting someone or something various shades of black.  For more on this see my thread on the subject.

https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=287572.0;all

and perhaps my thread on accountability might help to.

https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=288926.0;all

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Jonathan Ricciardi
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« Reply #13 on: February 12, 2016, 09:42:48 AM »

So she split you black? You explain to me how that is any different than ghosting, stonewalling, silent treatment, it is all the same thing. It means you have been outed. They don't like you.
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« Reply #14 on: February 12, 2016, 09:52:05 AM »

So she split you black? You explain to me how that is any different than ghosting, stonewalling, silent treatment, it is all the same thing. It means you have been outed. They don't like you.

You've been informed of the proper usage of the terms several times now, Jonathan, but you have chosen to reject them.  That's your decision to make, of course.  Please do realize, however, that the rest of the us will have misunderstandings in communicating with you due to your misuse of the terms.

I've noticed across a number of your threads that you ask a question, but then immediately discard the answer.  Are you aware of that?  Do you know why that is?
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Jonathan Ricciardi
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« Reply #15 on: February 12, 2016, 09:56:43 AM »

No one here has supplied answers, they have supplied thought, that's it.  No one here knows what is going on in someone else's head.

I'm smart enough to know that ghosting, stonewalling, silent treatment, and painting someone black is all the same thing... .they don't like you.  They don't want you in their lives. 
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« Reply #16 on: February 12, 2016, 10:00:35 AM »

No one here has supplied answers, they have supplied thought, that's it.  No one here knows what is going on in someone else's head.

I'm smart enough to know that ghosting, stonewalling, silent treatment, and painting someone black is all the same thing... .they don't like you.  They don't want you in their lives. 

People have supplied you answers.  You don't see that?  Can you tell me what an answer would be?
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« Reply #17 on: February 12, 2016, 10:02:04 AM »

No one here has supplied answers, they have supplied thought, that's it.  No one here knows what is going on in someone else's head.

I'm smart enough to know that ghosting, stonewalling, silent treatment, and painting someone black is all the same thing... .they don't like you.  They don't want you in their lives. 

Not true. Some behaviours are tools for punishment, others are tools for detachment. The only common thing across them is that they are used dysfunctionally against a person.
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Jonathan Ricciardi
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« Reply #18 on: February 12, 2016, 10:04:15 AM »

An answer is she hates me.  She did it by stonewalling, same result as painting someone black, or the silent treatment, or even ghosting, the difference are so minute, that is silly to argue over.  The point is in this entire thing, is your exBPD wants nothing to do with you, they hate you.  :)oes it really matter why?  
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« Reply #19 on: February 12, 2016, 10:05:09 AM »

No one here has supplied answers, they have supplied thought, that's it.  No one here knows what is going on in someone else's head.

I'm smart enough to know that ghosting, stonewalling, silent treatment, and painting someone black is all the same thing... .they don't like you.  They don't want you in their lives. 

Ghosting, stonewalling, etc. may be the result of splitting. However in every psychological document and reference we refer to SPLITTING, not to ghosting.

AN example:

https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/stop-walking-eggshells/201112/black-and-white-thinking-is-both-BPD-and-npd-trait


If you however want to call it with other words, you're free to do so, but as cosmonaut said, there is a risk of misunderstanding.

I'd say that splitting is part of a sickness, whereas ghosting is not necessarily part of someone's sickness, it could be temporary.
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« Reply #20 on: February 12, 2016, 10:05:38 AM »

No one here has supplied answers, they have supplied thought, that's it.  No one here knows what is going on in someone else's head.

I'm smart enough to know that ghosting, stonewalling, silent treatment, and painting someone black is all the same thing... .they don't like you.  They don't want you in their lives.  

Actually, no two of those four terms are "the same thing," and none of them necessarily means "they don't want you in their lives."

This is complicated stuff. Banging on it with a cinderblock of angry words won't make it yield to understanding. But to take one very very simple case:

You can read thousands of examples in the boards of people who have been "painted black" by someone who does not go away but instead sticks around to harass, berate, tease, and otherwise abuse them. So obviously they have not been ghosted by the person who painted them black.

I believe what you are trying to say is that the upshot for you is the same--i.e. the person is still not contacting you. You have asked over and over for an explanation for that fact. One possible explanation is that she has painted you black. Go look at any of the many resources available on the site if you want a clearer definition of that term. If not, state clearly and respectfully what it is you want, and these kind souls will try to help.

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C.Stein
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« Reply #21 on: February 12, 2016, 10:07:19 AM »

I'm smart enough to know that ghosting, stonewalling, silent treatment, and painting someone black is all the same thing... .they don't like you.  They don't want you in their lives.  

If I may quote you J525.

You're having a tough time reading my posts

I highly recommend reading the threads I posted links to in order to shed some light on your confusion of the painting black issue.
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Jonathan Ricciardi
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« Reply #22 on: February 12, 2016, 10:09:19 AM »

Why did she stonewall me? Simple question.
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« Reply #23 on: February 12, 2016, 10:10:59 AM »

Why did she stonewall me? Simple question.

Simple answer, one of the consequences of her splitting which is part of her sickness.
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« Reply #24 on: February 12, 2016, 10:13:09 AM »

An answer is she hates me.  She did it by stonewalling, same result as painting someone black, or the silent treatment, or even ghosting, the difference are so minute, that is silly to argue over.  The point is in this entire thing, is your exBPD wants nothing to do with you, they hate you.  :)oes it really matter why?  

If you already have the answers then what exactly are you looking for here?  Why does any of this matter to you 3 years later?  You haven't had answers for 3 years, why do you need them now?  

You aren't going to get the answers you seek, this is a hard truth you simply have to accept.  There is nothing you can say or do that will change this simple fact.  Find a way to give yourself closure and move forward with you life.
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Jonathan Ricciardi
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« Reply #25 on: February 12, 2016, 10:16:05 AM »

Sending definitions is not needed, I have college degree and know that you folks are disputing minute definitions, the overall result is your gone. bye bye.  If someone paints someone black and that person sticks around for the abuse, then that is not just the BPD, the victim is also some sort of PD as normal people don't put up with that.  Lastly, they hate you no matter what your definition or classification is, they don't like you.

Many people who are given the silent treatment, ghosting, stonewalled, or painted black... .stood up to the BPD, didn't take the bait.  :)idn't kiss butt, which is what people have done all their lives. Protect the BPD, they're victims.  So they built a wall, or shut you out.  I never told her off, just told her she is wrong about things.
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« Reply #26 on: February 12, 2016, 10:16:19 AM »

Why did she stonewall me? Simple question.

I thought you had determined the answer to be that she hates you.  I am confused why you are asking again after having provided the answer.  Is that answer unsatisfactory?  Is it that no answer is satisfactory?  Help us to understand what you are looking for here.  The clinical answer has been given numerous times in other threads and you have rejected it as a textbook answer, so there seems no need to go over that again.  What answer are you looking for?
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« Reply #27 on: February 12, 2016, 10:17:06 AM »

Why did she stonewall me? Simple question.

Merriam-webster:

Stonewall: to refuse or fail to answer questions, to do what has been requested, etc., especially in order to delay or prevent something ( chiefly US )

Your question presupposes that she is "trying to delay or prevent something," which does not sound accurate to me.

I think what you mean is why did she cut you out of her life. We can only speculate. I'm sorry if you don't like speculation, but what other option is there? We can't interrogate her, and even if we could, she might not tell the truth, and very likely she does not know the truth herself.

Long ago and far away I suggested that she (like my ex) might have an avoidant streak. She might be steering clear of you for the very simple reason that you remind her of unpleasant things. Note that one needn't have a PD to do this.

If you want an explanation based on what's known about BPD, then look seriously into the meaning of painting black. It is a maladaptive defense against unbearable emotions.

Is your question about what those emotions might be? Again, only speculation is possible. But something in your relationship possibly caused her to associate you with feelings of self-loathing, fears about being enveloped against her will, etc.

You knew her. Not us. What do you think?

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« Reply #28 on: February 12, 2016, 10:25:32 AM »

Ok folks you win, she didn't stonewall me.  She gave me the silent treatment for 3 years, but I was told by moderators on this board, that is no longer silent treatment, so it isn't that.  Splitting me black is not the reason as I did nothing that would make her have negative emotional experiences by thinking of me.  That is silly.  I treated her well.
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« Reply #29 on: February 12, 2016, 10:25:58 AM »

Sending definitions is not needed, I have college degree and know that you folks are disputing minute definitions, the overall result is your gone. bye bye.  If someone paints someone black and that person sticks around for the abuse, then that is not just the BPD, the victim is also some sort of PD as normal people don't put up with that.  Lastly, they hate you no matter what your definition or classification is, they don't like you.

Many people who are given the silent treatment, ghosting, stonewalled, or painted black... .stood up to the BPD, didn't take the bait.  :)idn't kiss butt, which is what people have done all their lives. Protect the BPD, they're victims.  So they built a wall, or shut you out.  I never told her off, just told her she is wrong about things.

Splitting is what mental illness do to people.

All other expressions can be used more generally including people who have no mental illness.


I wouldn't say we discuss minute definitions. Different terms exist to be sure we understand each other.

Polychrome doesn't mean multicolored.

If everyone starts using their own definition then we end up in a thread like this one where we don't know what you are actually looking for.

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« Reply #30 on: February 12, 2016, 10:28:10 AM »

Ok folks you win, she didn't stonewall me.  She gave me the silent treatment for 3 years, but I was told by moderators on this board, that is no longer silent treatment, so it isn't that.  Splitting me black is not the reason as I did nothing that would make her have negative emotional experiences by thinking of me.  That is silly.  I treated her well.

You don't know that. If she has BPD, you might have done something that set her off without ever knowing it. It's a mental disorder.
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« Reply #31 on: February 12, 2016, 10:29:21 AM »

I treated her well.

Is this what you are really looking for, Jonathan?  Is the answer that you want this hurt to be seen and acknowledged?  You feel you treated her well and now she won't speak to you.  That's some world class pain right there, my man.  That will knock you flat.  Many of us here can sympathize.  We've been through it too.  Is that what's been eating you up for the last 3 years?
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« Reply #32 on: February 12, 2016, 10:29:51 AM »

Ok folks you win, she didn't stonewall me.  She gave me the silent treatment for 3 years, but I was told by moderators on this board, that is no longer silent treatment, so it isn't that.  Splitting me black is not the reason as I did nothing that would make her have negative emotional experiences by thinking of me.  That is silly.  I treated her well.

You don't know that. If she has BPD, you might have done something that set her off without ever knowing it. It's a mental disorder.

Besides, it might be subconscious for her too.

At one point we ourselves become triggers to our exBPDgf/bf.
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« Reply #33 on: February 12, 2016, 10:30:06 AM »

That is another point, so many of you throw around over lapping terms and think you're offering something different.  A word meaning the same thing is the same thing.  To the person using Merriam-Webster... .that is a dictionary... .that is not a medical dictionary or psychological dictionary.
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« Reply #34 on: February 12, 2016, 10:31:22 AM »

Now lets throw in the word subconscious, avoidant, add some more guys eventually you can use every word available.
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« Reply #35 on: February 12, 2016, 10:32:12 AM »

That is another point, so many of you throw around over lapping terms and think you're offering something different.  A word meaning the same thing is the same thing.  To the person using Merriam-Webster... .that is a dictionary... .that is not a medical dictionary or psychological dictionary.

The point is 100% synonyms do not exist. It's a fact. Each term is used for a specific reason.
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« Reply #36 on: February 12, 2016, 10:35:47 AM »

That is another point, so many of you throw around over lapping terms and think you're offering something different.  A word meaning the same thing is the same thing.  To the person using Merriam-Webster... .that is a dictionary... .that is not a medical dictionary or psychological dictionary.

Relax.

Read the helpful suggestions you got.

Is cosmonaut correct--do you just want to express your pain?

Do you want to hear that it's not your fault, that it wasn't fair?

It wasn't fair. Life is unfair. BPD is a horrible disorder.

Peace out, Jonathan. I've done what I can. I hope you find your answers.
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« Reply #37 on: February 12, 2016, 10:36:46 AM »

Good to know that you all offer sound advice on synonyms.
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« Reply #38 on: February 12, 2016, 10:38:14 AM »

That is the point, there are no answers.  If someone doesn't like your answer, you paint them black.  I'm starting to learn that many of you do exactly what you complain your exes of doing. 
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« Reply #39 on: February 12, 2016, 10:39:20 AM »

That is the point, there are no answers.  If someone doesn't like your answer, you paint them black.  I'm starting to learn that many of you do exactly what you complain your exes of doing. 

If there are no answers, then why do you keep asking questions?
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« Reply #40 on: February 12, 2016, 10:40:13 AM »

That is the point, there are no answers.  If someone doesn't like your answer, you paint them black.  I'm starting to learn that many of you do exactly what you complain your exes of doing.  

Lol. Come on Jonathan. You asked why is she ghosting you. We said because she split you and because it's part of her sickness. What else can we answer?
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« Reply #41 on: February 12, 2016, 10:41:45 AM »

That is what I'm here for to explain that you can do all the research you want, and it still supplies no answers, no facts.  I want people to know that they're hated, shunning, ghosting, silent treatment, stonewalling are all the end. It is good bye to you, there is nothing you can do.
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« Reply #42 on: February 12, 2016, 10:43:39 AM »

That is what I'm here for to explain that you can do all the research you want, and it still supplies no answers, no facts.  I want people to know that they're hated, shunning, ghosting, silent treatment, stonewalling are all the end. It is good bye to you, there is nothing you can do.

We are aware that there is nothing we can do. However, we can still support each other though? Don't you think so?
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« Reply #43 on: February 12, 2016, 10:43:53 AM »

You have no idea if she split me... .that is a theory.  Let say she split me black, how does that accomplish anything? She has clearly moved on.  Again, none of you here are able to clinically diagnose anybody.  
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« Reply #44 on: February 12, 2016, 10:44:27 AM »

That is what I'm here for to explain that you can do all the research you want, and it still supplies no answers, no facts.  I want people to know that they're hated, shunning, ghosting, silent treatment, stonewalling are all the end. It is good bye to you, there is nothing you can do.

Ok, I see.  Thanks for sharing that insight with us, Jonathan.  In light of that, how do you think that you can start to come to accept that this is the end?  Is that the next step for you?
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« Reply #45 on: February 12, 2016, 10:45:02 AM »

Why did she stonewall me? Simple question.

So you answered your own question, so we're good to go.
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« Reply #46 on: February 12, 2016, 10:45:55 AM »

Oh I have accepted that it is over, I have accepted that she hates me.  How many times should I tell you this or anybody else.  Once a BPD doesn't like you... .its over... .bye bye.
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« Reply #47 on: February 12, 2016, 10:48:09 AM »

I think people need to be warned, not told that the BPD is stupid and has the mentality of a 3 year old, 3 year olds don't date and have sex.  You people make things up to make you feel better.
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« Reply #48 on: February 12, 2016, 10:49:33 AM »

so your purpose for being here is to educate us, do i have that right?
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« Reply #49 on: February 12, 2016, 10:49:58 AM »

You have no idea if she split me... .that is a theory.  Let say she split me black, how does that accomplish anything? She has clearly moved on.  Again, none of you here are able to clinically diagnose anybody.  

Indeed, you are right, we have no idea. We don't know her. Maybe she is not BPD, because we don't know her.

But, all the answers we provide are of course with taking into account her possible BPD.

Now, if she doesn't have BPD, then I am not sure that a BPD forum can be really helpful. All we can do is give support to each other and together share our life experience. It would be foolish to expect from a forum to diagnose anyone or to find THE answer to all the questions.  
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« Reply #50 on: February 12, 2016, 10:53:00 AM »

I think people need to be warned, not told that the BPD is stupid and has the mentality of a 3 year old, 3 year olds don't date and have sex.  You people make things up to make you feel better.

You got that very wrong.

pwBPD are not mentally 3 year old kids! PwBPD have emotions similar to a 3 year old. Not the intelligence and the rest. It's all about regulating emotions. Just like toddlers, they couldn't develop it due to trauma. However, with appropriate therapies like DBT, there have been proofs that a pwBPD can improve and be helped to better regulate their emotions.
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« Reply #51 on: February 12, 2016, 10:55:53 AM »

People have to want help... .most BPD never ever receive treatment.  They go undiagnosed all their lives.  DBT only works for those seeking help.

A three year old is not thinking we should have sex... .its not in a three year olds make up. 
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« Reply #52 on: February 12, 2016, 11:01:49 AM »

People have to want help... .most BPD never ever receive treatment.  They go undiagnosed all their lives.  :)BT only works for those seeking help.

A three year old is not thinking we should have sex... .its not in a three year olds make up.  

Nobody ever said they are three year old kids. They are adults but picturing the world in black and white JUST LIKE children on the emotional level.

That doesn't mean they have not developed other adults behaviors such as speech, intelligence, humor, taste for music, for hobbies, being in love and making love.  

Nobody ever said that pwBPD are behaving like toddlers.

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« Reply #53 on: February 12, 2016, 11:07:09 AM »

I have read numerous times on this board and from moderators, that, yes the BPD has the emotional maturity of a 3 year old.  If you need me to find that, I will.  No normal child sees the world in black and white either.  Children know pain and hurt. 
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« Reply #54 on: February 12, 2016, 11:14:56 AM »

I have read numerous times on this board and from moderators, that, yes the BPD has the emotional maturity of a 3 year old.  If you need me to find that, I will.  No normal child sees the world in black and white either.  Children know pain and hurt.  

Children know pain and hurt, of course. But they must pass through the stage of black and white in the beginning of their emotional level. It is only later that they learn that there are also shades. That people not necessarily either love or hate you, but that there is much more to the feelings than just love and hate.

The problem with pwBPD is that when their bf/gf, for example, initiate break up with them they immediately think it's because their exBF/GF hates them. It's all or nothing kind of thinking. But they don't realize that there is more to the emotions than just loving or hating.
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« Reply #55 on: February 12, 2016, 11:17:07 AM »

To the MODs:  please review and if not in accordance with the rules, please remove.


Jonathon525

You are given great advice, many insights in order to understand and process your hurt and/or your hunger for knowledge.

Until now I was a silent reader of your topics and many others in which you expressed yourself in a way that I in way felt, even just as a simple reader, insulted.

Insulted in a way that I must have been a complete idiot, even total insane for having had a 30+yrs r/s with a person like exw. All my pain, all I read and learned throughout the yrs. was a waste of time… So deeply shameful towards myself too that even a P couldn’t put a finger on me…

Reading your story, you say in your 1st post that you learned a lot about BPD online and through counselling.

That there was a long history, starting once as puppy love, both moved on and well in your forties you met again and had a short r/s of only 6 months.

In your story you don’t mention a previous r/s nor if you have raised kids (you mentioned you are 46) maybe there are none or it is just your choice not to talk about that past.

Quoting you:

+if they're emotionally immature, that of a 3 year old, they would never get into relationships.

No? A kid has the greatest r/s one can imagine; receiving unconditional love and nurturing, without realising(!) that love is a 2 way street… Now ask yourself, how could a kid?

View a kids r/s with parent from THEIR still very narrow (emotional) world… Getting upset when they ‘feel’ abandoned, getting mad at you when you failed (in their eyes), blaming you when they feel upset and so expecting you to solve it. Still… you show your love, still you will be around, unconditionally…

YEP, a kid is fully aware what they are doing…

Please ask yourself when you deny a kid a sweetie and you catch them, isn’t the first response denial? EVEN when they are still chewing?

Ever asked yourself why that denial? It is shame, shame only, because they let you down! YOU, the one they look up to!

Then the next reaction is justification (for THEIR mind, for their SURVIVAL, to sustain that bond with you!), and eventually blaming you for withholding a sweetie. As YOU should have understand their desperate signs!

… So I am mad at YOU! YOU made me feel bad! YOU don’t fulfil MY expectations!  I love you – I hate you… SPLIT BLACK … THEIR hero (parent) failed…

So, YOU are RIGHT, a BPD NEVER shuts their emotions off… they suppress it by behaviour, like we do, but different…

+A BPD never shuts off their emotions, they may shut them off to an individual or individuals, but no they don't ever shut off their emotions totally.

Now by growing up the second stage comes after ‘shame’ and that is ‘guild’. The ability to learn from previous ‘mistakes’.

Knowing that, ask yourself if that person in a skin of 43 yr. old (your ex) seemingly shows the same kind of behaviour as that kid.

Knowing that, ask yourself (and in your posts you answered it already…) is that woman of 43 emotional immature and that you played for a short time the role of ‘parent’ as her previous ‘parent’ FAILED…  

Quoting you:

+Don't let the people on here tell you she doesn't know what she's doing.

+The fact is BPD people know exactly what they're doing during a breakup.

+I told you guys that they know what they're doing, I keep proving it because you have no answers.  Unless she is an emotional zombie she knows what she did, she knew that when she ended things it meant never talking again.

+As far as mine being a single incident, you need to do your homework, on Silent Treatment, Ghosting, Ostracizing, Stonewalling, all of it.


+That is the point Suzn, you and many on this board are giving people false hopes, its wrong.  When a BPD is done with someone, they're done. +There isn't a thing one can do about it, I have yet to see one person on this board say that.

+Many of you try to make excuses for these people


   Do we? Or do we want to understand, do we come over here to learn, to learn about ourselves too?

Maybe it helps to get more insight, but I am afraid not, as you several times clearly stated that you appreciate input but won’t buy the ‘crap’/ the reasons as why your ex (and many other exes as described on this Board) behaved the way they do. I would suggest to have second thoughts about that.

Yet you seems to diminish most or even any professional points of view about BPD / Cluster B. Diminish the idea that a human that acts outside the bandwidth as accepted by society (and as would be expected by a romantic partner living up to the same normal norms and values) can act ‘weird’; in cases as described on this Board even seems to have, at least from our point of view, some mental issues.

It seems to me, and reading some reactions on your posts, and others too, that you are still very hurt, still have a lot of anger and shows so much deep black bitterness in your tone.

Maybe, just maybe, because of that some of your posts really offend me!

I quote you again:

+I have waited 3 years and continue to wait for contact from her, I've accepted she isn't coming back.

+I have been given the silent treatment for 3 years.

Interpreting (and upfront my excuses as I am not native English) you still seems a kind of upset/hurt that 3 yrs. later you still don’t hear a word of her.

Did she maybe indeed moved on? As once both of you moved on for many, many yrs.?

However, you also wrote:

+She has every right to dump you, there is nothing abnormal about breaking up.  People do it everyday


I understand (again I am not a native speaker) your ex was diagnosed, or just found someone else?

+Why does your ex have to have BPD, she found someone else, very common, doesn't mean she is BPD.

So, what is your problem to understand?

Again quoting:

+Of course I can accept she is an independent person and free to make her own choices. So I guess that's it, shut down this site, Turkish has it all figured out, people are allowed to make their own decisions... .what a novel concept.

Well  Jonathan525  again your words

+Nothing more to be said, all you folks out there, just remember it has nothing to do with BPD its all just you needing to accept that people have the right to make their own choices. Wow great insight.

How did you put it?

+Treat them as they treat you.

         + She hates me. Though hate takes energy


To me, you have a lot of that energy…
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« Reply #56 on: February 12, 2016, 11:21:09 AM »

Well when people break up with you, its not because they love you.  So if someone dumps somebody a natural reaction is that they don't like you, other wise you would be together.

pwBPD know exactly what they're doing, don't believe that.  A person with BPD knows exactly why they have given you silent treatment, painted you black, shunned, ostracized, stonewalled, any other term that makes the board happy.  They know why the relationship ended, other wise they would never dump you.
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« Reply #57 on: February 12, 2016, 11:26:09 AM »

to ditched, anyone can pick and chose quotes of randomness, it actually showed me as well, you have a lot of energy. I have no children, I have mentioned that before.

I can see you want to stonewall me as well. 
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« Reply #58 on: February 12, 2016, 11:30:16 AM »

ill ask again: is your purpose for being here to educate us? debate us?
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« Reply #59 on: February 12, 2016, 11:30:32 AM »

Well when people break up with you, its not because they love you.  So if someone dumps somebody a natural reaction is that they don't like you, other wise you would be together.

pwBPD know exactly what they're doing, don't believe that.  A person with BPD knows exactly why they have given you silent treatment, painted you black, shunned, ostracized, stonewalled, any other term that makes the board happy.  They know why the relationship ended, other wise they would never dump you.

Not true. You can like many people and not date them. Sometimes things don't work out as expected and break up, but it's not because things are not working out as expected that you are going to hate the person. YOu can still like the person as a friend. You can still have both empathy and empathy without necessarily be in a relationship with that person. You can always wish the best and not feel a single resentment and yet not be in a relationship.
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« Reply #60 on: February 12, 2016, 11:38:12 AM »

to ditched, anyone can pick and chose quotes of randomness, it actually showed me as well, you have a lot of energy. I have no children, I have mentioned that before.

I can see you want to stonewall me as well. 

Hi, reading your posts I can feel turmoil emanating from your words. How are things going for you on the roads shaping your destiny? 

It seems that you desire logical answers to incongruous relational behavior. That desire is causing suffering. It's a bit like this dilemma:

(The Cheshire Cat’s head is floating above the King, Queen, & executioner)

“The executioner’s argument was, that you couldn’t cut off a head unless there was a body to cut it off from: that he had never had to do such a thing before, and that he wasn’t going to begin at his time of life. The King’s argument was, that anything that had a head could be beheaded, and that you weren’t to talk nonsense."

Around and around we go... .

Though if you're really bent on analysis, some evidence points to an inability to be able to reflectively think about self in an integrated manner, i.e., to accurately perceive the context of one's existence in relation to self and others. That leads to a defect in the evaluative processing of emotions--therefore relational cause, effect and consequences may become skewed.

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4303263/

What soothes you Jonathan? Can the people here and the collective wisdom help in some way? The support is offered in equal opportunity and is available to all.
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« Reply #61 on: February 12, 2016, 11:57:32 AM »

First off driver, we aren't talking about friendships here.  Anyone who you like that you don't date, is a friend, and of course ones sexual preference is also involved.

Thank you Conundrum, I shall read that piece.  But again, these are theories and not specific to every individual.
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« Reply #62 on: February 12, 2016, 12:02:46 PM »

First off driver, we aren't talking about friendships here.  Anyone who you like that you don't date, is a friend, and of course ones sexual preference is also involved.

Thank you Conundrum, I shall read that piece.  But again, these are theories and not specific to every individual.

When I referred to liking someone as a friend and have both empathy and sympathy, I was referring to our exBF/GF after a break-up occurs, I was not referring to friends.
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« Reply #63 on: February 12, 2016, 12:05:18 PM »

It's ok I have been stonewalled, given silent treatment, ghosted, and ostracized by bpdfamily. I can only comment on this board, anything else they have silenced me.

They have taken my privilege of venting and offering advice as irrelevant.
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« Reply #64 on: February 12, 2016, 12:14:21 PM »

Jonathan you are having a very tough go of what your ex has done to you. We all have. I am so sorry you are feeling this way. I myself have had a tough time of it too. My ex found me 26 years after we dated as teens bac in 1987. My ex was a normal happy go lucky girl who was and still is the love of my life. Our romance was short lived as my mom found out and broke the relationship up. After that I found out my ex started to fool around with half the guys in the block. Then when I tried getting bac she became this different person . She wanted me then she didn't . Back / forth. Then we stopped talking all together . She hated me it seemed. Later a few months I found out her parents put her into a mental hospital for 2 months and she came out worse then when she went in. After that her family moved and I never saw or heard from her again . Or so I thought. My ex in Feb of 2013 found me on Facebook and sent me a friends request. I didn't except it at first bc I could remember all the pain she caused me as a teen. Well stupid me accepted it and after talking with her she wanted to bring up my mother breaking us up. Well I did t want to talk about it so for 2 1/2 I kept her at bay every time she would pm me on Facebook. A normal convo would turn into a talk about us. Well last June I let my guard down and my ex flat out told me she still loved me. We started a phone affai bc she moved to Canada and I still lived in NY where my ex is from. She told me she was diagnosed Bipolar at 14. Well after I took her bait the push/ pull started within 2 weeks.  The it was ok then again and again and again. My ex told me how much she loved me. I was the one for her. She was so happy to have me back in her life. All the bs. Well just days after telling me all this $hit she ended things with me thru an email no less. Telling me I ran after her! I started flirting with her . She also said she never loved me ... .Only as a friend and dos t know why she said that to me to begin with. I was devestated. She quickly painted me black and that was it. All over a tiny remark I made about a tomato. We were not compatible in her eyes anymore. Well her behavior never say well with me. I have 2 friends whom are Bipolar and they don't act like my ex did. So I did reaserch and I believe she has been misdiagnosed back in 1987 . I believe she is BPD. She has over 7 if the symptoms of the 9. So here was the love of my life. Coming back to be over 25 years later and look what she did to me... .Again. The point ... .These are very very sick ppl. I myself have raged over what my ex had done. The hurt she has caused. But I remind myself that they are sick. It's suxs I know. I will never get my closure of why she came back into my life and killed me all over again. But they are sick. That's what you have to remember. One day at a time.
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« Reply #65 on: February 12, 2016, 12:14:29 PM »

It's ok I have been stonewalled, given silent treatment, ghosted, and ostracized by bpdfamily. I can only comment on this board, anything else they have silenced me.

They have taken my privilege of venting and offering advice as irrelevant.

? I am not sure I am following you here. Who silenced you? What piece of advice did you give to whom and about what or whom?
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« Reply #66 on: February 12, 2016, 12:20:26 PM »

This single thread is the only thread I can comment on... bpdfamily... .has taken my ability to reply to other threads, its not even an option... oh well.  I'm getting used to be treated this way... .it is just like the BPD all over again. 
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leew2110
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« Reply #67 on: February 12, 2016, 12:23:38 PM »

me ex just came back after being away for 3 year, started with anonymous phones calls which she claims were to hear my voice, this went on for months, then she reached out... didnt help.

for 10 yr now i have been in & out of my partners life. My now ex BPD partner returned last year after not speaking to me for nearly 3 year, in which time she was with another man, yet claims she didnt love him. she started ringing my phone but not speaking.

then she sent a message to test the waters i think. I stupidly went to her aid as she needed a friend.

at first i simply wanted to be her friend, but she convinced me she had been missing me so badly all these years, but didnt know how to reach out, that she had never stopped loving me and it was her who had been ringing over the years just to hear my voice but afraid to speak.

i fell for it all hook line & sinker. I agreed we could try again because i still loved her deep down & when i found out the ex was always catching her out looking me up on fb etc, so i believed what she said even more and agreed to try.

then within a short space of time, the arguments began again. As they increased she started talking about having a child together.

this scared me as she was talking NOW not later. i said i wasnt against it but wanted to work on putting us right & being committed first and then let nature take its course.

she didnt like that, more arguments etc, so i ended it and walked away. I couldnt risk bringing a child into such an unstable relationship & would not reply to her attempts to contact me.

that was in November, in that time she did not even try to fight for me, yet claimed me the love of her life only weeks earlier.

Last week I tried to reach out to see if she was ok and maybe sort things out. she ignored me.

i wrote a letter & hand delivered it to her door saying i was sorry and still loved her etc.

sent a few texts saying same, no reply. then i sent one saying i was sorry & would leave her be if she wanted me to or fight for her if she didnt say even go away. no reply so i sent a few more messages and tried to ring. she will not even acknowledge me.

then today the police arrived accusing me of harrassing her and she wants left alone.

why couldnt she have told me this herself?

what happened to i have loved you for 10 year?

i want a child with you born of love with you?

anyone else have thoughts or experience on this
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Driver
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« Reply #68 on: February 12, 2016, 12:24:11 PM »

This single thread is the only thread I can comment on... bpdfamily... .has taken my ability to reply to other threads, its not even an option... oh well.  I'm getting used to be treated this way... .it is just like the BPD all over again. 

Well, I am sorry to hear that, but did you abide by the rules of the forum? I am sure things will get back to normal once you have vented in this thread.
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Jonathan Ricciardi
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« Reply #69 on: February 12, 2016, 12:36:39 PM »

leew I'm sorry you went through that, I'm starting to think my ex doesn't have BPD as she hasn't come back and most of you people talk about them coming and going.  Mine has been gone three years, I accept its over.  But what bothers me is that, the BPD knows exactly what they're doing, you can't be so smart in trapping or seducing or attaching to someone with out the same thing going on during the end.  What many on this board insinuate is that the BPD has no idea as to what they're doing.  Like they get home from work and they sit there and wonder why you're not calling, they know why.

Leew my father once told me this when I was 16, and again till this day.  If the police ever get involved in a relationship, its over.  I'm sorry to be the bad news guy, it stinks.  But you can't risk getting into trouble with the law, that is something that you don't need.  She knows what she is doing and she wants you so badly to contact her and she can call the police and get all the attention from every family member possible. 

I want to make this clear... to all boarders... .there were no police involved in my relationship with my ex... .but I knew by the way she stonewalled me... .that if I had showed up at her home or work... .there is no doubt she would have called cops.  When someone dumps you, blocks you on social media, and changes their phone number on you, it was enough for me to know it was over.  Its been three years, but again I don't think she is BPD, she has sniffed, seen, or talked to me since.

Driver I have abided by the rules... .many have a hard time on this board accepting that a BPD knows exactly what theyre doing.
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C.Stein
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« Reply #70 on: February 12, 2016, 12:45:53 PM »

a BPD knows exactly what theyre doing.

In the case of my ex, she did not always know exactly what she was doing.  I observed this on many occasions, even things that had nothing to do with me or our relationship.  She was simply not aware of the consequences her actions may have.
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Driver
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« Reply #71 on: February 12, 2016, 12:46:57 PM »

.but I knew by the way she stonewalled me... .that if I had showed up at her home or work... .there is no doubt she would have called cops.  When someone dumps you, blocks you on social media, and changes their phone number on you, it was enough for me to know it was over.  Its been three years, but again I don't think she is BPD, she has sniffed, seen, or talked to me since.

Driver I have abided by the rules... .many have a hard time on this board accepting that a BPD knows exactly what theyre doing.

Quick questions:

-Why would she hate you? (How do you know she hates you? Did she explicitly tell you?)

-Why did she dump you? (Did she warn you beforehand?)

-Why did she block you? (Did she block you because you tried to reach her?)

-Why did she change her phone number? ':)id you try to phone her? If yes, how often per day?)

-Why would she call the police and/or why would you show up at her place anyway if she decided to break up?
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leew2110
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« Reply #72 on: February 12, 2016, 12:49:23 PM »

calling the police while ignoring me when i Was trying to reach out is what she has done each time for 10 year now... well 8 coz the first 2 years were bliss...

when they rang today i was not shocked as she does it each time... its become her routine. i am the devil & painted black.
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leew2110
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« Reply #73 on: February 12, 2016, 12:53:28 PM »

if you read all about BPD tho, you will find they do not think they are doing wrong. your either perfect or nothing at all to them.

they paint themselves as the victim to friends yet only those they truly love and are close see the real issues, moods, tempers etc.

so is that a blessing that somewhere deep down you are that close to their heart, or is it a curse and better off just being their friend where its hidden from sight.

which i knew. 10 yr and i am still learning
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Jonathan Ricciardi
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« Reply #74 on: February 12, 2016, 12:54:51 PM »

She hates me because she wants nothing to do with me.  She never told me that, but actions speak louder than words.  3 years and no word tells me she doesn't like me.  She never gave me a reason for the break up, just that it was over.  She warned me, in that I could feel it coming.  My whole story is on another thread.  Many people who have been text dumped want to find out why, it would not be uncommon for someone to show up at work or home to find out why.  People should be able to break up and talk not ignore or block or stonewall.
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Driver
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« Reply #75 on: February 12, 2016, 01:02:23 PM »

She hates me because she wants nothing to do with me.  She never told me that, but actions speak louder than words.  3 years and no word tells me she doesn't like me.  She never gave me a reason for the break up, just that it was over.  She warned me, in that I could feel it coming.  My whole story is on another thread.  Many people who have been text dumped want to find out why, it would not be uncommon for someone to show up at work or home to find out why.  People should be able to break up and talk not ignore or block or stonewall.

Have you wondered why she wants nothing to do with you? Did she ever explain it to you before dumping you?

How about her changing her phone number? Why do you think she did it?
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leew2110
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« Reply #76 on: February 12, 2016, 01:02:43 PM »

thats exactly what mine does Jonathan.

never says she hates me, but will not acknowledge me, reply to me, explain to me.

she just simply goes off... sometimes weeks, once 6 month and last time 3 year.

she does not know the harm she does, people with BPD do not see things the same as others and thats why we struggle to understand the behaviour.

no grey area and mistakes allowed. your with white as snow or black as coal.

and once they paint you black. they wont return till the shame & fear in them finds an excuse to re-engage and maybe start thinking of the nice things you did, or how bad the current love is.

but part of me still believes in her so i keep letting her back in, tho her usual routine when coming back is when she needs help.
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« Reply #77 on: February 12, 2016, 01:19:07 PM »

Staff only

This topic has reached it's page limit.

Feel free to continue the discussion in a new thread.
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