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Family Court Strategies: When Your Partner Has BPD OR NPD Traits. Practicing lawyer, Senior Family Mediator, and former Licensed Clinical Social Worker with twelve years’ experience and an expert on navigating the Family Court process.
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Author Topic: Last time I'll see her  (Read 565 times)
Scopikaz
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« on: March 11, 2016, 05:42:55 AM »

The last time I will see her is tomorrow for the dinner and concert we planned over a month ago.  She has clearly moved on. I'm clearly painted black.  When she can't let her friends know we did things together the past couple of months.  When she never texts me or when she responds it's always brief.  When she likes nothing of mine on Facebook.  When things have been on her terms only.  I don't know why against everyone's advice I am even still going to take her.  And now I'm sort of regretting it too.  Maybe we will have a good time. I don't know. But it's like rewarding her for bad behavior. It's like letting her think that her bad actions can have positive results or outcomes. I don't know. It's just the last time I ever expect to see or talk to her again truthfully.  And I guess I should be glad.  Some think she will eventually make contact again or reach out. I don't.  There's no earthly reason for her to.  She's seemingly happy with her new independent life. All sorts of guys are probably validating her needs for attention and love.  She doesn't need me or my love or affection or attention.  She has all that now from others.  Pray for me.
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« Reply #1 on: March 11, 2016, 07:23:36 AM »

Ok. So thank you for posting this.

What is it that you want from us now as a repose?

So many people have tried to help you and you have chosen a different path. So what is it that you want us to pray for?

Just looking for your guidance here.

Cheers

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Scopikaz
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« Reply #2 on: March 11, 2016, 09:16:22 AM »

Not sure. Just reassurance I guess.  And prayer for Gods will.  And confirmation that I'm right in my thinking.
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blackbirdsong
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« Reply #3 on: March 11, 2016, 09:28:59 AM »

And confirmation that I'm right in my thinking.

Look, we are all together in this. And we are here for each other. But I cannot tell you that you are doing right if you are going to that concert and you also have a wish to detach (this is a reason why you are here, right?).

My opinion is that it will just make you hurt more.

But, whatever you do, we will be here anyway.

To be honest, I believe you have a decision to make - which board should you choose to post on.

P.S. I don't pray. So no benefit from me in this domain. Smiling (click to insert in post)
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Lonely_Astro
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« Reply #4 on: March 11, 2016, 09:41:24 AM »

Scopi,

Have you talked to a dr. yet about being depressed?  I ask because you seemed quiet distraught the last time you posted.  I want to see YOU get healthy.  She lives her life how she sees fit to, you have to live yours too.  You need to be healthy and strong to do that.

I know you're sad.  I've been there myself.  I would frantically look at anything I could to deduce how J was feeling post-breakup.  I felt bad for leaving her, even though she left me first (without telling me, of course).  Then I discovered that she was having a parallel life with L.  How twisted was that? 

I still stand by my statement that you need to cancel the concert with her.  You aren't obligated to take her.  Get another friend to go.  Go enjoy yourself and leave her be. I can tell you from experience that this concert with her will do nothing but prolong your pain.  You say it's the last time and it will be, until the next time.

People have offered great advice to you along the way.  Trust us and me when we say this won't be the last time you hear from her.  I was NC with my ex for 3 YEARS before she came back around.  I, too, said "I'll never hear from her again" when she left out of my life.  And I didn't... .for 3 years.  But, she came back into my life and time had dulled the pain I had experienced.  I had forgiven her and things went from there.  Times funny like that.  I had forgotten how painful it was, all the bad $hit she had done to me.  I hadn't forgotten it had happened, no, but the pain I no longer felt left me open to her.  Our r/s this time was a little different, in the beginning, but by the end it was EXACTLY the same.  It was a carbon copy. 

Let go, Scopi.  It's only through forgiveness we find freedom.  Forgive yourself, forgive her... .and release her into the grace of God.  She's not your responsibility. 
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jessedsickabouther
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« Reply #5 on: March 11, 2016, 11:55:32 AM »

Even if people pray for you you still have to make the right choices you say everything factually and then you go ahead and do the opposite anyway

What do you think will happen best case scenario if you go to the concert? She's going to realize all of her mistakes and come to her senses? You're teaching her what behaviors are okay you realize that and when you take her out for a night time story basically said yep I'm a chump feel free to treat me like a chump in the future so I hope you have a good time because I think she'll contact you again too because you've proven that you will do anything that she wants on her terms if you are smart and you could put your emotions aside in .my opinion you would cancel it and suck up the loss and teacg her that you're not there for those reasons.

It's all pretty much pointless anyway no matter what you do. I just like me and everybody else here he's going to hang onto denial for as long as you can until you come to acceptance. I hope that  comes soon for you brother
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jessedsickabouther
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« Reply #6 on: March 11, 2016, 12:03:41 PM »

I have to say one more thing I'm sorry. Have you given any thought to the benefit not going to this concert or canceling at the last minute.? Even if she gets mad it's a much better outcome for you. Stand up for yourself... Simply say that you've been giving it a lot of thought and it's not in the best interest that you heard all of her feelings on the two of you and that you just not able to do this. I've had the pr privy of seeing thumbtack that I was never intended to see from multiple ex-girlfriends and I guarantee you if you could see what she probably said to someone about this concert you would not be going.

Just wish her the best and leave her alone she should be begging you and making promises to you to be in therapy and a whole list of other things for you to give her any of your time. You were throwing her attention and money. I know you're not doing well and I am very sympathetic trust me I'm going through some similar stuff but I am not going to reward bad behavior.

Go and talk to somebody because you won't find another person to tell you that you should go to the concert like why are you debating about this any further do I have to come over there and shake you come on man be a dude I'm not trying to bust your balls but come on seriously think about what you're doing
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jessedsickabouther
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« Reply #7 on: March 11, 2016, 12:05:36 PM »

Not thumbtack some text
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Scopikaz
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« Reply #8 on: March 11, 2016, 12:32:46 PM »

I know.  I'll keep everyone posted
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MapleBob
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« Reply #9 on: March 11, 2016, 12:52:11 PM »

Scopikaz, I honestly don't know why she is agreeing to go to concert with you, other than for the free ride/ticket. I don't think you're a fool for going, but I think that you should keep your expectations lower than low, and be prepared to get support the day after. I'm very interested in hearing about your experience with this, and I'm wishing you good luck.  Doing the right thing (click to insert in post)
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jessedsickabouther
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« Reply #10 on: March 11, 2016, 01:09:43 PM »

I'm sorry but I do not want to hear in any way that you went to this concert because this is going to set him back months. The best thing that could happen is that she's totally selfish and rude and he realizes that she's not worth it. But if you think she hasn't planned in advance how she's going to behave and to manipulate him further then you're sadly mistaken okay because she's smarter than you I'm telling you. There is no good that will come from this seriously you could be sent back more months if anything positive happens. Is she coming over and hanging out with you everyday or calling you who wants a woman like this honestly if you just want to go out and have fun and end up in the sack then turn a dating profile on and go out and and have some fun with somebody you don't hardly know rather than somebody that's going to hurt you. There are no good possible outcomes it might make a good interesting story to us but I'm really concerned about where you're at. Listen the hardest choices in life are often the best choices that's how you know that you're doing the right thing cuz pain teaches us so maybe you need more pain now you can either sit through the pain you're already in and cut this cancer off or you can go put yourself through months more pain and then you're going to end up in the same place anyway. If everything had a chance of working out you wouldn't be on this board you wouldn't have found this website. I'm being hard on you because it's the people that are hard on me that get through to me. I can tell you're not going to cancel the concert but I bet you that if you look back on it you will just be like why did I waste my time doing this for somebody who still treats me like crap I just can't even fathom that. You want to see the good I get it but that's not who she is. A good woman will not treat you this way find a good woman who will enjoy going to the concert I mean just probably a woman you could find right now that would like to go to the concert still. Please keep a safe distance you're not ready to have contact with her right now maybe at some point in the future if you've both moved on yes but you're not there and I'm not so sure this isn't going to really mess you up even further
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jessedsickabouther
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« Reply #11 on: March 11, 2016, 01:12:00 PM »

Bob does bring up an interesting question though I will say that think about it from her point of view she is kind of proving herself because any decent girl is going to say that you shouldn't spend that money on me don't worry about it it's not right take somebody out but she's going to let you take her. If that doesn't speak volumes I don't know what does it's not like you haven't had time to get out of this and you broke up 2 days before a concert. She should not want to go and the fact that she's letting you think that she wants to do is just a huge sign if you ask me
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MapleBob
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« Reply #12 on: March 11, 2016, 01:31:59 PM »

Bob does bring up an interesting question though I will say that think about it from her point of view she is kind of proving herself because any decent girl is going to say that you shouldn't spend that money on me don't worry about it it's not right take somebody out but she's going to let you take her. If that doesn't speak volumes I don't know what does it's not like you haven't had time to get out of this and you broke up 2 days before a concert. She should not want to go and the fact that she's letting you think that she wants to do is just a huge sign if you ask me

This I agree with. And maybe I do have a little tough love via observation for you, Scopikaz: I think you've postponed your moving on until after this concert. I've seen it in your posts since your breakup. This is maybe a positive way of settling in to moving on, but again: keep your expectations about this "date" lower than rock-bottom. And be very cautious about taking any signals she gives you as indicative of hope or positive change.
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Learning Fast
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« Reply #13 on: March 11, 2016, 05:24:50 PM »

S,

Just say no and don't go.  There is virtually no upside and tons of downside.  Hey, we've all been there, Scopikaz---we've all had the same feelings, yearnings and pinings as we pick ourselves off the ground post discard.  I have yet to hear of any instance where one of these encounters met the expectation of the non.  Given the opportunity to make a different choice after the fact, I suspect the vast majority of nons would have opted to cancel beforehand.

One of the posters from years back (his site name was "2010" called this frame of mind "malignant hope" and I feel that he was spot on with that term.  Cancel the concert date, schedule something fun and different with friends or family and get thru the night.  The next day you'll be proud that you did.

LF
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Anez
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« Reply #14 on: March 11, 2016, 05:36:13 PM »

S,

I agree with everyone else here that says don't go. And don't feel sad about canceling, instead look at it the other way - you taking your power back from her while kicking off the start to a new chapter in your life that has nothing to do with her and everything to do with you.

Then go out and celebrate this new start with friends.

What a life-changing moment this could be for you. Focus on the positives. There are none of those with her.

Life is short. Take yours by the reigns and go out there start kicking butt.

You can do this. We all can do this.
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tryingsome
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« Reply #15 on: March 11, 2016, 06:17:05 PM »

Here is my two cents.

If you don't go Scopikaz, it will be one of the greatest healing and detaching moments.

You will feel %150 better about leaving this relationship if you don't go.

It'll give you confidence, it'll give you the ability to say know. It will do a ton for your well being.

And the reason this is true, is because it is so hard for you to say no to her.

Trust me, not going will help the healing tremendously.

Now if you go, you'll just be in the same place for the last few months.

And you will tell yourself, just after this one thing... .i will detach. next time, just after dinner, etc, etc, etc.

It is similar to what an addict says about he drug of choice, just one more time.

So I can't stress enough, if you say no to this concert with her.

Your road to recovery and independence and a brighter future will be much closer.

Good luck.
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jessedsickabouther
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« Reply #16 on: March 11, 2016, 06:59:49 PM »

I think we lost him

Some people just need to touch the stove one more time . Been there done that .
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Caley
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« Reply #17 on: March 12, 2016, 03:53:01 AM »

A lot could be said ... not only on this particular relationship dynamic, the characters involved and the consequences of past and future decision making but also in the responses to the OP's thread title.

I agree somewhat with 'jessed' and his/her last response. Interestly, the message I get from the feelings that arise from it is 'so be it ... enough has been said .!'

If it holds true that it is not possible to force change in an undiagnosed pwBPD ... then the same has to be accepted for an undiagnosed 'non'.

Harsh, perhaps, and it could be taken as insensitive but the story of the boy who cried wolf comes to mind. Having said that it does conform to the advice here ... which is not to validate the invalid.

Eric Berne wrote a topical book on the games people play. One such game is called 'the yes, but' game and it invites many players. It is an interesting read because his interpretation of it is that it is not a game that seeks a solution but a game to show defiance to all presented solutions. The anti-thesis to it is to ask 'white' (the initiator of the game), prior to offering a solution, what 'white' has done themselves to overcome their problem and for 'black' (the invitee's) to resist from presenting solutions which will always be rejected with a 'yes, you're right ... .BUT'.

I believe Skopi has no intention to cancel his date ... I believe he is excited about the prospects of spending more time with her ... and all attempts to warn off what will surely come to pass will be met with Dr. Berne's 'Yes, But.'

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Scopikaz
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« Reply #18 on: March 12, 2016, 04:54:01 AM »

Well. I went out with another woman last night. We've done a couple of things the past two weeks. She knows about my ex and the concert.  anyhow we went to a little karaoke bar at a bowling alley minutes from my house. I used to take my ex there. She now lives forty five minutes away as do all of her friends.  But she was there with her new friends.  Last weekend she was at a place we used to walk as well. Although I didn't see her.

Well last night I went up and said hello from across a table.  Maybe I shouldn't have but I did. I thought it was trying to be nice or cordial.  Anyhow. She didn't take it that way. So she came up to me and all but tried to say I embarrassed her and myself in front of her friends. So we exchanged a couple of words. 

I danced with the girl I was with.  And no doubt she tried to make my ex jealous. 

Anyhow I got a text at four am that said it was best if we didn't go to the concert.  She said obviously I have moved on and obviously the other girl is better company than her.

Of course I am saddened. But I know it's for a reason.

I still can't believe two weekends in a row she would go to places she could clearly run into me



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jessedsickabouther
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« Reply #19 on: March 12, 2016, 06:32:57 AM »

Buddy listen honestly you need to go and talk to somebody as soon as possible like two three times a week because I don't even know where to start with this last post that you just put up. First of all you take another girl out and you talking about your ex and she's taking notes and she's not enjoying it I'm sure especially when she can probably tell buy whatever you're telling her how affected you still are by her. Trust me on this one I've made this enormous mistake as well. You really shouldn't be going out with anybody until you get some help and get healed because you're going to poison the next relationship. Second of all you're showing up at places of all the places that you can go where you could potentially run into this girl it's like you're torturing yourself. People here are trying to help you and believe me we have a tremendous amount of understanding I still can't sleep after 3 months. But I'm not going to go out of my way inviting trouble or looking for things that are just going to hurt me more. Something tells me you're going to fight all day by a text because you won't let this concert go and I think it's you that wants to go to the concert more than her anyway she doesn't care she's just using you and playing you because it's pure enjoyment for her and I don't think that you can wrap your head around this please please please listen to me what has helped me is the help of two other girls explaining deeply the manipulation of women especially women like this. And how it works how women can manipulate gently but control it or how some of them can just do it to see you act like a fool. Don't think she's not completely excited and turned on by what you're trying to do she thinks you're trying to make her jealous. She doesn't care she cared she'd be with you why would you want a woman like this in your life

I think everybody here is trying to help you but maybe I should refrain from posting anymore because the only thing I can tell you is that u needed to go and talk stuff to someone.

Your kind of letting things get out of control and I think you're making more bad choices every day
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Scopikaz
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« Reply #20 on: March 12, 2016, 07:02:21 AM »

No. She lives forty five minutes away. This place is five minutes from where i live. It would be like me going to this particular place she frequents there.  There was no good reason for me not to go to this place.  I didn't think in a million years she would be there.  Honestly. 

And the woman I was with knows the situation.  I was up front with her from day one. We've been friends so far.  And I'm not really looking for something with her either. 


I just think that there are places that I went to before my ex. Introduced her to. And she should respect me enough to not show up at those places like I wouldn't go to places I clearly know she frequents. 

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« Reply #21 on: March 12, 2016, 08:28:39 AM »

And the woman I was with knows the situation.  I was up front with her from day one. We've been friends so far.  And I'm not really looking for something with her either.

Does she know this (see bold)?

I have to admit the events from last night bother me for several reasons.  I feel like your date, while playing along, was being used to make the ex jealous.  You may or may not have done this on purpose but the end result was the same.  You have made your feelings about your ex very clear (i.e. you want her back) and this all seems like you taking advantage of a situation to force some type of action from your ex ... .specifically one that might bring her back around to you.  Was this your intent here?  Be honest when you ask yourself this question.
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Lonely_Astro
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« Reply #22 on: March 12, 2016, 12:19:03 PM »

No. She lives forty five minutes away. This place is five minutes from where i live. It would be like me going to this particular place she frequents there.  There was no good reason for me not to go to this place.  I didn't think in a million years she would be there.  Honestly. 

And the woman I was with knows the situation.  I was up front with her from day one. We've been friends so far.  And I'm not really looking for something with her either. 


I just think that there are places that I went to before my ex. Introduced her to. And she should respect me enough to not show up at those places like I wouldn't go to places I clearly know she frequents. 

I understand that you went to the bowling alley 5 minutes from where you live.  Its one of your haunts (from what I gathered).  You weren't expecting your ex to be there.  So I'm not upset you went there or that you went there with a girl who is your friend.  I am confused that you called it a date, though.  It's ok to go out with women and not be on a date, but a date is an entirely different animal.  So was it a date or wasn't it?

One thing you have to realize is that you aren't dealing with a rational, fully functioning adult.  You say she should've respected you enough to not go to places you frequent because you wouldn't do that to her.  Guess what?  She isn't thinking about you.  All she's thinking about is herself.  If she liked the bowling alley, she's going to go back there.  The memories of you and her there may or may not enter her mind.  Most likely she has positive memories of the place and goes back because she remembers she had fun there... .not who she was with.  BPDs have object constancy issues. 

For example, during a moment of lucidity with J, I asked her about her object permanence issues.  I asked her if I were away from her for a day, did she fully understand that I was still in existence, if she knew I was still "here", that I still loved her and I was thinking of her; that nothing changed because I wasn't in her presence.  Her response to me was an unemotional "yea, kinda."  I asked her to elaborate and she said "well, I know you're still out there but I have trouble accepting that."  That isn't the thought process of a normal, healthy adult.  I can guarantee that your ex has the same permanency issues as J does.  'Out of sight, out of mind'.  We learned as toddlers that if someone left the room, they still existed and would come back to us just the same as they left us.  BPDs didnt develop that and still don't believe that when we leave the room we still exist and we'll come back.  That feeds their fear of abandonment.  It's believed that this was caused from a neglectful mother as a child, but know one knows for sure if it's nature, nurture, or both that leads to this.  Whatever the cause, it's not the normal thought process of a fully developed adult.

Now, with that said, when you walked in with your (non-)date and saw her it should've been you that left.  Plain and simple.  You aren't in the place emotionally to stand face to face with her and try to go toe to toe with her.  Would it be fair you'd have to leave a place you frequent because of her?  Nope.  But, that's being an adult.  Sometimes it's unfair. 

Who really ended up hurt in this scene was your date.  Whether she knows all about what you want with your ex or not, she's trying to be there for you.  She's trying to be understanding.  But she can only withstand that so much.  You immediately turned your attention to your ex, ignoring your 'friend' or date.  Sure, you may have danced with her and 'hung out' with her, but all your attention was on your ex.  That wasn't fair to her.  Not at all.  Frankly, you owe that woman an apology for what happened last night.  This new girl obviously cares for you and you need to give her some respect for that.  If it were me, I would call her and apologize for what happened last night and invite her out to dinner somewhere tonight to make up for it.  Of course, that's presuming she's willing to do so.  That's also presuming you're willing to put Ms. Trouble On A Stick in your rearview mirror and start moving forward with your life.

If anything good from last night happened, it was that your ex text you (like a child) and said she was taking her toys (i.e., herself) and going home (by not going to the concert YOU were paying everything for).  She didnt want anything from you (so she could go do whatever she wanted, guilt free) but the moment you were doing what you wanted, she threw a tantrum.  She's even going further by making you feel guilty for going out, too.  And she's making you dismiss your dates feelings. 

Leave Ms. Trouble to her bar friends.  Go call that nice woman who was with you last night and make amends for what happened.  You owe it to yourself and her to do so.   
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jessedsickabouther
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« Reply #23 on: March 12, 2016, 12:28:30 PM »

My ex said the exact same thing when we were dating. She didn't know if I was there when she went to work. And I mistakenly sent her text that day saying I'm here or whatever and she thought I was making fun of her so that did not go over too well either. But the point is it really does give you a glimpse into their mind. I  have so much anger this week regarding our latest contact but I'm not going to hijack this thread. My point is this is just becoming very bad and unhealthy for you. You seem like if given a choice you'll always pick the wrong one even though you know the right thing to do and there's nothing any of us here can say. You just going to do what you want to do. You are prolonging the inevitable. I get it it hurts I can't let go of it very well either butt the last thing I would want to do would be to go to a concert to see with somebody that doesn't want to be with me. I mean it's that simple. She's not in your life at all and you just going to take time out to go to a concert. And you were totally acting inappropriate with the date as well. I wish you could slow down and think about what you're doing before you do it. You need to get somebody that you trust and listen to them before you act because you're making the situation worse by the day not better. It's your life if you want to be a misery and be in pain even longer than keep doing what you're doing.

It's one thing to be reeling in pain and suffering and trying to make the right choices but you just seemingly want to go out of your way 2 make it more difficult. The impression that I'm getting is that you have the means to impress this girl and that that has something to do with why she liked you in the first place and that comes to his a low self-esteem issue which many of us have but you don't believe you can get anybody else or you want that girl who probably yours too seeing as somebody that is normally out of your league and you think she genuinely cared about you not about what you could do for her. But she's not around and you're continuing to do stuff for her and you're continuing to play like high school games and I are involving another girl into the mix who may or may not care that much but I can tell you right now no girl wants to listen to this crap or be involved in the middle of it you can ask any woman on here. So it's time to step up and be a man I don't know what else to tell you either going to talk to somebody or get a friend that you trust and listen to what they tell you to do because every choice is bad and this will be another bad choice if somehow you end up at a concert with this girl
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MapleBob
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« Reply #24 on: March 12, 2016, 01:20:53 PM »

I don't know, Scopikaz, I think that maybe this is the best thing that could have happened for you. Your ex is now clearly exposed as a hypocrite: she got all mad about you finally doing exactly what she's been doing all along (hanging out with whoever the hell you want to whenever and wherever you want to), AND she cancelled on you for the concert (which is probably what she should have done weeks ago, if she was even remotely self-aware). If that's not reason enough to stop obsessing over her then I don't know what is.

(And I agree: if I was out with a friend OR a date and I ran into an ex I would leave. I couldn't have a good time under those circumstances.)

Which brings me to: tell us about this "friend/date"!  Being cool (click to insert in post)
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« Reply #25 on: March 12, 2016, 02:07:57 PM »

The friend / date is someone who I met three years ago and went out with a couple of times then. She was a year out of a divorce then and she had issues then. Fast forward to

A couple of weeks ago. We went out. Then before second date or Meeting she told me she was recently diagnosed bi polar. Hasn't worked in a while.  Trying to get disability.

Then a couple days later she said she had herpes.  So honestly I don't want anything more thug friendship.  She came to my house last night and all but seduced me.  I didn't yield. I wasn't interested in her that way.  And I love my ex or think I do.

So when I wasn't succumbing to her advances (ie half naked next to me) we left. I was driving her home. And I said if you want to stop here we can. Again I had no clue whatsoever my ex would be there.

And I wish now I would have left when I saw her

and yes. It does seem like she got mad at me for doing what she's been doing too. She was with me feb 12.  Then out with a "friend" the next night too.   So she can do stuff with others. Then comes where I like to go.  Gets mad at me for trying to say hello. And for being with someone.

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« Reply #26 on: March 12, 2016, 07:40:13 PM »

I don't hear that she is "mad." I hear her actually asserting what sound like reasonable boundaries, albeit with a tinge of hurt. She is saying--"you're seeing someone else, which makes it inappropriate for us to go to the concert together." She has a point. The fact that you did not draw a similar boundary earlier doesn't make her hypocritical. It might mean that you want to reexamine YOUR boundaries (continuing to see her despite the decisions she has made recently).
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