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Author Topic: Contact: The Nearly Zero Chance Happened  (Read 802 times)
C.Stein
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« on: April 08, 2016, 06:59:54 AM »

Those of you who have followed my story know I have come to believe my ex would never contact me again.  She has given me no reason to believe she even considered me alive anymore.  She threw me away like a piece of trash, cutting me out of her life like a tumor and "moved on" with the guy she had likely been grooming as my replacement a couple of months prior to discarding me for good via text 8 months ago.

I probably sent her 6 or so emails last fall, none of which ever got a response.  Two of those were epic "closure" emails which probably took a combined 50 hours or more to write.  The last epic email I sent was a rather harsh but honest look at her and what she did.  That email should have slammed the door shut forever and knowing how she is I never expected her to find the courage to contact me again.

Well, I was wrong.

Of all the emails I sent she chose to respond to that one, 5 months after I sent it.  I fully expected her guilt, shame and fear of rejection would keep her silent until the end of time.  Perhaps I misjudged her ability to rewrite history and lie to herself?  It now sits in a sub-folder unread as I have been unable to bring myself to read it.  When I saw it in my inbox there was an instant stab of anxiety.  I know I have not detached fully from her as I have been struggling with latent emotions and the fact I lost someone who I was deeply in love with and had at one time believed was "the one".

I do not know if this means the new relationship imploded or she just needs something from me.  I find it very odd she chose to respond to THAT email especially after she made it crystal clear she wanted nothing to do with me anymore in any capacity.  She has demonstrated time and time again her inability to truly face herself, her actions and consequences of those actions so I am admittedly a bit confused.  It has always been easier for her to pretend nothing happened whenever she did something hurtful.

I have been trying to prepare myself emotionally for what might be contained in the email because I am fairly certain, after giving it a lot of thought, there is almost nothing she can say that will not hurt me in some way.  Even if she were to accept responsibility for everything she did, which is something I have wanted (accountability), it will hurt because it will verify what I am still struggling to come to terms with after piecing together the most likely affair she had from little things that happened in the last months of our relationship.  There is a part of me that still wants to believe she didn't have an affair or replace me.  The reasons for this are well detailed in my numerous threads on reconciliation.

So I speculate that it is unlikely she is feeling any real guilt or remorse, at least nothing that is genuine or enduring.  Most likely she needs something from me and has zero concern for me, my feelings/well being or for how deeply she has hurt and damaged me.  She never apologized or showed ANY concern for how much she hurt/damaged me, neither during or after our relationship, so I see no reason why she would feel any differently now.  She reached out to her ex before me on several occasions when she needed something from him so I expect this is no different.  Naturally if this is true it is unbelievably thoughtless, selfish and cold-hearted, especially given how coldly she cut me out of her life.

I suspect it will be filled with JADE-ing, projection and blaming, possibly mixed in with some sincere and insincere apologies.  She might even accept responsibility for what she did, at least in writing, however if she does I wonder if that is just a means to get what she needs from me.  Even if she does accept responsibility it almost certainly will be quickly followed with a reason/excuse for her actions (i.e. my fault).  This has always been her standard operating procedure and therefore will not be truly accepting responsibility for anything, at least in her mind.

It is also possible she might be lashing out to hurt me, and she could easily do that, however I would have expected it to happen last year, not 5 months later.  She might be responding to that particular email because she just can't stand anyone thinking poorly of her.  The least likely scenario is she realized she made a mistake if her "new relationship" imploded and is looking for a recycle.  I doubt it is that as she has given me every reason to believe she doesn't value me as a human being much less a partner and feels I am a waste of time and space ... .but then I thought I would never hear from her again either.  There is also a very small chance that she didn't read it until recently, at which point why even read it at all much less respond?  Kinda surprised it didn't get deleted on receipt.

Now I know I can just delete it however I feel like I owe it to myself to read it.  I said a lot of things in those emails I sent her last year, including telling her about BPD.  It might be the final piece I need to detach fully as there is a part of me that still feels very attached/connected to her, almost like it was yesterday when we were together.  Granted that feeling has slowly been going away but it is (unbelievably) still with me.  All the emotions I have been feeling since last year are still there they are just diminished in strength and power to de-habilitate.  It really boggles my mind how deeply this woman has impacted me.

I don't want to know what is going on in her life, especially if she is something like pregnant and engaged/married.  If she is reaching out to let me know how "good" her life is that would be nothing short of cruel.  Perhaps she is just looking for absolution?  I did forgive her in that email so not really sure what she might be looking for by responding to that email except to deny the conclusion I came to regarding the almost certain affair and what that says about her character.

In any event, read or not, I do not feel any obligation to respond and she has no reason to believe I would.

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lunchbox123
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« Reply #1 on: April 08, 2016, 07:47:37 AM »

In my opinion you're gonna read it sooner or later. It's gonna press on your mind whether you read it or not.

I say pour yourself a glass of wine, light a candle, open that sucker, revel in disappointment that it's just a pity email to try to lure you back in but then find rejoice in being so far into your healing that find it comical she is still trying.

Then come back and tell us what was in it, I'm very intrigued.
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heartandwhole
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« Reply #2 on: April 08, 2016, 07:53:01 AM »

Hi C.Stein,

I feel for you.   I can relate so much to your feelings and pondering about this response from your ex gf. I know you will do what is right for you. Whatever happens, you will feel something, and whatever you feel after reading (or not) will be just that: feelings. No one wants to feel pain and hurt, but remember, the worst has already happened. You will be okay, and we are here to support you.

Now, in the spirit of sharing, I'd like to offer some of my story, if you'll indulge me, because it might speak to what you are going through right now.

I asked for NC at my breakup because I needed the time and space to recovery from the very painful meltdown that happened at the end. I knew that I was done and that I would not reach out to him, however badly I wanted to. I never did, and he respected my wishes for the most part, but he "passively" contacted me a couple of times at about 4 and 9 months after breakup (by passively, I mean he posted things in places that were semi-private/private and directed to me). I did not respond, because they were indirect, and I didn't know how/what to respond. I wasn't ready to connect, and felt anger at some of what I perceived to be non-accountability in the messages.

I found out (yes, I checked his FB!) that about a year after our breakup, he married the gf that, at the time of our relationship, he was breaking up with to be with me (yes, I know  ). So, those messages, where he wanted a relationship with me, said he still loved me, etc., were probably around engagement time and right before he married.

It's been 4 years since the breakup. In February of this year, he contacted me directly by email. Again wanting a relationship of some kind. I'm not saying he wanted to cheat on his wife, but I'm very sure that she didn't know about his messages to me, as they were quite emotional and represented our connection as special and unique, etc. Perhaps there is a baby on the way? Who knows. It's not my concern. I was able to reply with a warm reply stating that we can't have a relationship, but that I wished him well (we had tried 3 times to be friends, it never worked).

When we were "together" he wanted to reconcile with a former gf (the one before the one he is now married to). This is the pattern, and I suspect, like perhaps you do, that the reaching out to me came out of engulfment and abandonment fears. I understand that and feel no pain or anger around the behavior. In fact, I care very much about pwBPD and truly wish him happiness and fulfillment.

At 8 months, I was still experiencing PTSD symptoms whenever I stumbled onto an old email from him, or thought I heard his voice on a train, or whatever. At 9 months out, I started to feel a glimmer of hope, a feeling that something was shifting—for the better. And each month that went by after that, I felt better and better... .until now, where I recently read some of the most gut-wrenching and painful, projecting emails from him (we were long distance, so there was a lot of written communication) and felt perfectly balanced (and more interested in my responses and co-dependency than his stuff). This is progress, C. Stein! I wish that for you, too, and I know those days are coming.  

heartandwhole  
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When the pain of love increases your joy, roses and lilies fill the garden of your soul.
C.Stein
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« Reply #3 on: April 08, 2016, 08:15:11 AM »

At 8 months, I was still experiencing PTSD symptoms whenever I stumbled onto an old email from him, or thought I heard his voice on a train, or whatever.

Yes, I can relate to this PTSD response.  There are a lot of things that still trigger me, her "ghost" is everywhere I go.  It is not as bad as it was at 3-5 months, when I had non-stop wet eyes, but it is still there.  I do at times see a glimmer of that state of indifference but it still remains just outside my grasp.
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C.Stein
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« Reply #4 on: April 08, 2016, 08:22:52 AM »

In my opinion you're gonna read it sooner or later. It's gonna press on your mind whether you read it or not.

You are right, I will eventually read it.
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zeus123
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« Reply #5 on: April 08, 2016, 09:21:19 AM »

Do not read it, just delete it, resuming communications with a borderline--no matter how much distance you've gotten, or how well you think you've recovered, affects you just like a relapse of a bad flu virus! Suddenly, you're feeling very sick again, and trying to survive. The confusion and torment you're feeling from her constant contradictions , lies and manipulations feel exactly as they did before. The education and insights you've Gained haven't made a dent, in terms of your inner experience of this relationship, and how it erodes your stability, sanity and self-worth. It could be tempting to read the e-mail from her because you think the pain has eased up a bit now, or you've had time to regroup, and you're thinking about trying again. Do everything humanly possible, to fight that urge! This is when you must take inventory of all the chaos and torment you were subjected to during the last go-round. You might have changed and grown a bit--but she hasn't! Make a list of their torturous, confusing, ugly behaviours and stick it on you bathroom mirror and refrigerator, so you'll read it at least once a day. COMPLETE AND STRICT NC always... DELETE DELETE DELETE.  Reading this e-mail only prolongs your pain, try to get acquainted with your own feeling it will help you become strong and wholesome!...
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C.Stein
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« Reply #6 on: April 08, 2016, 10:02:13 AM »

Make a list of their torturous, confusing, ugly behaviours and stick it on you bathroom mirror and refrigerator, so you'll read it at least once a day.

You see, that is the problem.  She wasn't like that the vast majority of the time.  Her hurtful behavior was very subtle and sporadic.  Given this I have repeatedly asked myself over the past 8 months why she cannot find a way to overcome this.  At the same time I am also reminded she was aware of this behavior in the beginning of our relationship and could not really get a handle on it.

I know it is hard for some people on this board to see how variable borderline behavior can be as most of the stories you see here are of people who are closer to the more severe manifestation of the disorder.  My ex was at the opposite end of that, being primarily an inward waif.

I did make a pro's and con's list a long time ago.  The con's outweighed the pro's by about 2:1 with respect to intimate relationships.  That however doesn't negate the pro's.   Regardless of her struggles within intimate relationships, outside of them she is a very caring and giving person.  She seems to literally be two different people with respect to this.

Chances are better than not that whatever is contained in this email will put an end to my doubts and second guessing.  While it may hurt to read it, that hurt will be self-inflicted.  Even if/when I do read it I do not feel obligated to respond and more than likely will not.  She chose the path she is on now and chose to leave me behind (pretty much her exact words).
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heartandwhole
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« Reply #7 on: April 08, 2016, 10:47:33 AM »

C. Stein,

I can relate to your "milder" experience of being in a relationship with pwBPD. I was in a similar situation. He was in therapy, working diligently on his stuff, was an amazingly insightful, aware, and caring person. Despite training in psychotherapy, personal therapy, and being a gentle soul who wouldn't want to hurt me for anything, there simply were times (many times) when his past (abuse) and attachment problems ruled his behavior toward me—they literally took over, according to him.

Reality does shift for some with this disorder. To the point that they don't realize until later what damage has been done. That doesn't excuse my own wonky patterns that directly contributed to the meltdown, but my reality felt at least consistent. His did not. It was heartbreaking for me and for him, but I know that he is capable of helping himself. I need to help me.

Despite knowing deep down that he is a loving man, I had to save myself, which meant not having a relationship with him. Each of us has to decide if that's the case for us. If the love we and our pwBPD felt for each other were enough, none of us would be on this site.

Let us know what comes up for you as you navigate this new message. 
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When the pain of love increases your joy, roses and lilies fill the garden of your soul.
HurtinNW
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« Reply #8 on: April 08, 2016, 10:48:39 AM »

I'm so sorry. Getting a letter like that out of the blue is completely unnerving.  

Is there any chance you can read the letter in the company of a therapist, support group or good friend? I think having a real person there to offer support and validation would be helpful, if you decide to read it.

Also, I can imagine having someone who doesn't manifest a lot of outwardly hurtful behaviors all the time would be harder to reconcile. People can be deeply hurtful in all sorts of ways. It doesn't have to be screaming and abuse. It can be dishonesty, infidelity, selfishness, and emotional abandonment.

I second the opinion that this letter is all about her. She is writing it for her purposes. Perhaps to soothe herself, perhaps because she is making a decision and wants to open a door, who knows? The bottom line is she didn't sit down to write it thinking, "I want to do something good for C. Stein." She is doing it for herself and that is the information to remember.  
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« Reply #9 on: April 08, 2016, 10:48:50 AM »

Oh C.Stein! I don't know how to feel about you getting an email from your ex. I think a part of you wanted SOMETHING from her but another part of you knew it was for the best that she did not pop up and get you off track with your healing all the time. As cruel as it was, the fact that she gave you 8 months to sit with your true feelings was for your own good and you have definetely used this time as best as you could. You have grown a lot and this is something that is really obvious through your postings. Now it's you decision to read it or not. I may be wrong but most chances are that you will read it eventualy and I totally understand why you would do that. It's probably the first contact you got from her since then and you are only human.

I honestly don't think you should spend a lot of time wondering what she says in it cause there is no way you can speculate. It can be anything from "I miss you and I will always love you" to "you are crazy and don't know what you are talking about" referring to your email from 5 months ago. I think the most important thing you need to do before you read it is first of all remind your self of the reasons why YOU don't want to and shouldn't be with her and why you shouldn't take anything she says personally. Go over the traits and most common behaviors of people with BPD. Then prepare your self for the feelings that may arose, whatever those would be. Just try to rationalise this process and expect to have some feelings going. And lastly, I would suggest that you pre arrange something to do with friends outside the house and leave right after you read it. I believe this will give you time and space to process it at a better pace.

We are here in any case      
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C.Stein
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« Reply #10 on: April 08, 2016, 11:01:49 AM »

Reality does shift for some with this disorder. To the point that they don't realize until later what damage has been done.

I agree and observed this.  She would literally act on something without ANY thought to the potential consequences.  It is the impulse part of the disorder, and potentially the most hurtful. 

In addition to that when things get emotionally difficult for her she constructs a reality that is easier for her to live with.  Usually that reality involves ignoring the issue(s) like they never happened and/or shifting responsibility.  This results in nothing ever getting resolved, both within herself and within the relationship.  My contribution to this dynamic was I allowed her to do this at times (i.e. boundary violations) and I allowed issues to go unresolved.  I should have more consistently addressed this instead of letting her sweep it under the rug.  This is one area that I failed in.

This is not something that is unique to borderline relationships either.  People generally have a tendency to want to sweep uncomfortable things/issues under the rug.
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zeus123
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« Reply #11 on: April 08, 2016, 11:04:09 AM »

C. Stein you say the following:

-she never apologized or showed ANY concern for how much she hurt/damaged me.

-I see no reason why she would feel indifferently now.

-it is unbelievably thoughless,selfish and cold-hearted.

-specially given how coldly she cut me out of her life.

-she doesn't value me as a human being much less a partner and feels I am A waste of time and space.

-it really boggles my mind how deeply this woman has impacted me.

-if she is something like pregnant/married, if she is reaching out to let me know how "good " her life is that would be cruel.

-I do not feel any obligation to respond.

-there is nothing she can say will not hurt me in some way.

-so I speculate that is unlikely she is feeling any real guilt or remorse.

-most likely she needs something from me and has zero concern for me.

-my feelings/well being or for how deeply she has hurt me and damaged me...

Just delete this e-mail and don't read it, trust me. Your needs didn't matter during the relationship and they won't matter now. BPD lacks empathy so don't presume that she is contacting you for your sake.
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« Reply #12 on: April 08, 2016, 11:14:50 AM »

You wanted her to read your emails, so I think you should read hers. It'll probably hurt, yes, and you should have some support lined up, but I think you should read it at a time when it is convenient for you to have feelings about it. Then you can decide, based on what she says, whether to reply or not.
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C.Stein
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« Reply #13 on: April 08, 2016, 11:17:48 AM »

Is there any chance you can read the letter in the company of a therapist, support group or good friend? I think having a real person there to offer support and validation would be helpful, if you decide to read it.

Nope.  My sole source of support through all this has been this site.

Also, I can imagine having someone who doesn't manifest a lot of outwardly hurtful behaviors all the time would be harder to reconcile. People can be deeply hurtful in all sorts of ways. It doesn't have to be screaming and abuse. It can be dishonesty, infidelity, selfishness, and emotional abandonment.

You are correct.  It fully believe it would be far easier to "get over" this relationship if she had been more volatile.

I second the opinion that this letter is all about her. She is writing it for her purposes. Perhaps to soothe herself, perhaps because she is making a decision and wants to open a door, who knows? The bottom line is she didn't sit down to write it thinking, "I want to do something good for C. Stein." She is doing it for herself and that is the information to remember.

Chances are better than not she is doing this for herself and I fully understand this.  While she certainly does have the capacity for self-reflection and change I don't believe she is capable of sustaining it.  This is unfortunately what I observed during our relationship.

I think a part of you wanted SOMETHING from her but another part of you knew it was for the best that she did not pop up and get you off track with your healing all the time.



You are absolutely correct here.  I have felt very conflicted at times, both wanting contact and never wanting to hear from or see her ever again.  That conflict has not gone away unfortunately.  Perhaps the email will put an end to that conflict.

I honestly don't think you should spend a lot of time wondering what she says in it cause there is no way you can speculate. It can be anything from "I miss you and I will always love you" to "you are crazy and don't know what you are talking about" referring to your email from 5 months ago. I think the most important thing you need to do before you read it is first of all remind your self of the reasons why YOU don't want to and shouldn't be with her and why you shouldn't take anything she says personally. Go over the traits and most common behaviors of people with BPD. Then prepare your self for the feelings that may arose, whatever those would be. Just try to rationalise this process and expect to have some feelings going. And lastly, I would suggest that you pre arrange something to do with friends outside the house and leave right after you read it. I believe this will give you time and space to process it at a better pace.

That is what this thread is about ... .preparation.   

Thanks to everyone who has contributed to my preparation so far. Smiling (click to insert in post) 
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C.Stein
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« Reply #14 on: April 08, 2016, 11:26:01 AM »

You wanted her to read your emails, so I think you should read hers. It'll probably hurt, yes, and you should have some support lined up, but I think you should read it at a time when it is convenient for you to have feelings about it. Then you can decide, based on what she says, whether to reply or not.

Damn straight I did.   Smiling (click to insert in post) 

Not only did I want her to read them I feel she needed to read them for her own good.  Someone needed to be honest with her about her issues in intimate relationships because I don't think anyone ever has been.  If she is going to ever have any hope of achieving the kind of relationship she desperately wants she needs to not only be aware of the damaging things she does but also needs to address them head on.  Hopefully my emails helped her awareness now it is up to her to do something about it.
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« Reply #15 on: April 08, 2016, 11:56:59 AM »

Wow... .That is unexpected...

I'm with a lot of the others that she probably wants something from you. But whatever her reason is, it's not about her. It's about you. And I have every faith in you. You will prepare thoughtfully and read it. It will evoke feelings and memories. Of course. But you've come so far that you'll be able to see the email for what it is, whatever it says. You've learned enough that you know to think long and hard and ask advice here if there are things about her email that bother you and not to go in reactive mode. And you know that reading it does in no way mean you will have to or want to respond. You can do this.
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« Reply #16 on: April 08, 2016, 12:01:30 PM »

After your last post, where you've said that you've already told her in clear terms of her issues and how she has already treated you, then I would use this to your advantage.

She is reaching out, but in a lame, easy, thoughtless and selfish way. It will almost certainly be about her and she wants this communication episode to make her feel better.

But there is that tiny chance that she has turned a page, realised your value, grown up and wants some sort of calming of the seas, to calm both your and her emotions.

If it was me, I would be honest with her and reply (without reading her email) and simply say that although you thank her for her email, you've decided not to read it as it is many months since your last communication and knowing her as you do, you simply don't want to get hurt again.

By doing this you retain control, you don't open yourself up to being hurt again, you acknowledge her email, but also tell her that her past behaviour is prohibiting you from further engagement, especially with something as lame as an email.

The ball is then  back in her court.

If it is an impulse thing, she won't contact you again.

If she is genuine, she will.

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« Reply #17 on: April 08, 2016, 12:35:48 PM »

forward it to me! after this long thread, I feel I MUST read it.

... .just kidding. If it was me, I'd have to read it, though. The best time to get an email like this is about 1 year after you're in a better, more solid relationship. We don't get to choose the timing, though.

Good luck.
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« Reply #18 on: April 08, 2016, 12:37:59 PM »

The ball is then  back in her court.

If it is an impulse thing, she won't contact you again.

If she is genuine, she will.

Stimpy I understand your way of thinking behind this but I am not sure I agree. She may respond to such an email from C.Stein for many other reasons other than being genuine. If for example she is trying to recycle,her abandonment fears may be triggered by such a response and will probably continue with more.

In any case I don't think he should allow the ball back in her court... .That's kind of dangerous for any of us to allow. If he decides not to read it it's better if he stays in silence too. And he can decide to stay in silence even if he does read it. He should do what would be best for him. He is not in any way obligated to respond if there is a chance to take steps backwards in his healing. Just my opinion (coming from someone who keeps answering and keeps getting more hurt every time, no matter how genuine my ex's emails seem).
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C.Stein
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« Reply #19 on: April 08, 2016, 12:55:50 PM »

She is reaching out, but in a lame, easy, thoughtless and selfish way. It will almost certainly be about her and she wants this communication episode to make her feel better.

I don't hold it against her for reaching out via email.  It is how I would reach out if I were so inclined (plus that was the only option she didn't take off the table).  

But there is that tiny chance that she has turned a page, realised your value, grown up and wants some sort of calming of the seas, to calm both your and her emotions.

This certainly is a possibility, however slight it might be.  She really doesn't have any idea how profoundly she has hurt and damaged me.  I doubt she ever will really understand.  She does know she hurt me though.

If it was me, I would be honest with her and reply (without reading her email) and simply say that although you thank her for her email, you've decided not to read it as it is many months since your last communication and knowing her as you do, you simply don't want to get hurt again.

This option has crossed my mind ... .along with a link to the email box that I have dumped all my unsent thoughts I have written out.  If she were to read those she might begin to understand the impact she had on me.

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« Reply #20 on: April 08, 2016, 01:08:39 PM »

Wow... .That is unexpected...

I'm with a lot of the others that she probably wants something from you. But whatever her reason is, it's not about her. It's about you. And I have every faith in you. You will prepare thoughtfully and read it. It will evoke feelings and memories. Of course. But you've come so far that you'll be able to see the email for what it is, whatever it says. You've learned enough that you know to think long and hard and ask advice here if there are things about her email that bother you and not to go in reactive mode. And you know that reading it does in no way mean you will have to or want to respond. You can do this.

Even though I don't believe I have fully emerged from the FOG yet, I have enough clarity to hopefully not get emotionally reactive, especially if there is the expected JADE-ing, blame shifting and revisions of history.

She certainly has legitimate reasons to be upset.  I did withdraw and distance myself after she betrayed my trust, mostly due to her behavior after she admitted to it.  This would be hard for anyone let alone someone suffering from BPD.  She did the same though, so the blame isn't all on me in that regard.  I do regret not trying harder to communicate with her.  The initial communication attempts after the incident essentially broke me and I gave up trying.  At that point I let her sweep it all under the rug, but inside me it was still very raw and unresolved.

I have now spent well over 1000 hours doing nothing but trying to come to terms with the pain and damage done and trying to find some meaning and something positive to take from all this (i.e. personal growth).
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« Reply #21 on: April 08, 2016, 01:13:20 PM »

At this point I worry that you'll build it up and psych yourself out for reading it, only to have it to be some weird automated spam message because her email got hacked or something!  Smiling (click to insert in post)

Seriously, though: I want to commend you on your mindset going in to this. You've really got your head on straight, C.Stein!  Doing the right thing (click to insert in post)
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« Reply #22 on: April 08, 2016, 01:18:44 PM »

Hi C. Stein,

I've followed your posts basically since inception and would agree with the majority of responders in that you should read the email.  This may appear to be somewhat morbid but what if something tragic happened to her while you were undecided that would cause you to feel regretful?  Extremely unlikely but so was her recent contact.

As you mentioned BPD is a spectrum disorder.  Mine (as yours) would be what I would call BPD "lite" where I never experienced many of the atrocities that others have posted.  Hence my position vis-à-vis my ex is more indifference and ambivalence than otherwise meaning that I would read it if the same thing happened to me.

I would simply keep your expectation level in check, recognize that what others have opined about it "being all about her" is probably correct and don't try to overanalyze the content (we're all guilty of that to some degree).  You are much stronger at 8 months then you would have been at 8 days or 8 weeks.

LF
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« Reply #23 on: April 08, 2016, 01:22:15 PM »

At this point I worry that you'll build it up and psych yourself out for reading it, only to have it to be some weird automated spam message because her email got hacked or something!  Smiling (click to insert in post)

Smiling (click to insert in post) Laugh out loud (click to insert in post)  No chance of that.  It was a Re: response to that particular email.

Seriously, though: I want to commend you on your mindset going in to this. You've really got your head on straight, C.Stein!  Doing the right thing (click to insert in post)

Thanks Bob.  I try to remain as objective as possible, even when I was in the relationship.  It was towards the end when it got too much to handle emotionally and I literally shut down (eg. numb & depressed).  That is when I believe the PTSD started to kick in and the physical symptoms started to manifest.  I have a lot more clarity now having found the likely link to BPD.
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« Reply #24 on: April 08, 2016, 01:23:21 PM »

At this point I worry that you'll build it up and psych yourself out for reading it, only to have it to be some weird automated spam message because her email got hacked or something!  Smiling (click to insert in post)

Seriously, though: I want to commend you on your mindset going in to this. You've really got your head on straight, C.Stein!  Doing the right thing (click to insert in post)

I believe this comment will make him open that email sooner than he thought  Smiling (click to insert in post)

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« Reply #25 on: April 08, 2016, 01:32:35 PM »

I would simply keep your expectation level in check, recognize that what others have opined about it "being all about her" is probably correct and don't try to overanalyze the content (we're all guilty of that to some degree).  You are much stronger at 8 months then you would have been at 8 days or 8 weeks.

I don't really have any expectations here, I don't think.  I am just hoping to prepare myself for whatever it might contain so I am not brought to my knees again.  I am much better and stronger than I was at 8 weeks or even at 18 weeks.  It took 6 weeks alone after the trip to the trash bin just to start really having feelings again.  Before that point I was just in a numb haze. 

That all said I do recognize I am still emotionally attached to her so there is that.  There has been much anger for the past three months, mixed in with all the other typical emotions in the aftermath of such a relationship.  Good thing is, those emotions have become less tumultuous and easier to control as time goes on.  This is typical progression of a painful loss, but in this case the effects and pain have lingered far longer than I would have ever expected them to.  This is certainly not my first rodeo with painful loss either.
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« Reply #26 on: April 08, 2016, 01:34:00 PM »

At this point I worry that you'll build it up and psych yourself out for reading it, only to have it to be some weird automated spam message because her email got hacked or something!  Smiling (click to insert in post)

Seriously, though: I want to commend you on your mindset going in to this. You've really got your head on straight, C.Stein!  Doing the right thing (click to insert in post)

I believe this comment will make him open that email sooner than he thought  Smiling (click to insert in post)

Smiling (click to insert in post)  I will probably read it this weekend when I have a few days to myself to absorb and deal with any emotional blow back I might experience.
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« Reply #27 on: April 08, 2016, 01:41:58 PM »

forward it to me! after this long thread, I feel I MUST read it.

I have posted the email she responded to on this site.  Those of you who have been around for a while have probably read it.  You can probably intuit what her most likely responses might be.
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« Reply #28 on: April 08, 2016, 01:48:45 PM »

C.Stein,

Wow!  I could only imagine if it were me, a huge scab being torn off!

So is there anything you can do to help yourself process this in the most healing way possible?

For example, if it were me I may want to schedule a friend date for three hours after reading so that I do not read then fall into a sobbing emotional mess and isolate with my emotions. Or, maybe I would 'take a mental health day' read it, then allow myself to grieve all night long for a night.  I may tell a friend I am going to read it for an hour, then txt me to see how I am.  Also, if I were to print it, and use pen to discect it, it could help me to be in an analytical state of mind vs purely emotional, so that I can ease into coping with the emotions at a slower pace.  I also may schedule some outdoor walk for self care to have a grounding, mindfulness activity for me as a reward for coping.

Have you thought about anything you may need to prepare and care for yourself?
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« Reply #29 on: April 08, 2016, 01:51:44 PM »

Also, if I were to print it, and use pen to discect it, it could help me to be in an analytical state of mind vs purely emotional, so that I can ease into coping with the emotions at a slower pace.

^^^ This is a freaking brilliant idea.
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« Reply #30 on: April 08, 2016, 02:13:34 PM »

So is there anything you can do to help yourself process this in the most healing way possible?

Prepare for all possibilities before reading.

Also, if I were to print it, and use pen to discect it, it could help me to be in an analytical state of mind vs purely emotional, so that I can ease into coping with the emotions at a slower pace.

It is likely I will dissect it in a response, sent or not.   Heck, for all I know she could be reading this thread.

Have you thought about anything you may need to prepare and care for yourself?

I'm doing it now in this thread with y'alls help.   Smiling (click to insert in post)
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« Reply #31 on: April 08, 2016, 02:35:55 PM »

So is there anything you can do to help yourself process this in the most healing way possible?

Prepare for all possibilities before reading.

Also, if I were to print it, and use pen to discect it, it could help me to be in an analytical state of mind vs purely emotional, so that I can ease into coping with the emotions at a slower pace.

It is likely I will dissect it in a response, sent or not.   Heck, for all I know she could be reading this thread.

Have you thought about anything you may need to prepare and care for yourself?

I'm doing it now in this thread with y'alls help.   Smiling (click to insert in post)

Please do not take this the wrong way... .

Your above response has me feeling your focus is on her, what she wrote, or is possibly doing.

I think it may be more helpful... .

My suggestions were about bringing the focus onto to you, loving and caring for you.

During my relationship... .

My auto-responses were to abandon myself, and whirlwind into the latest crisis mode... .to put myself in his shoes.  Then my feet would get raw from the walking... .yet I didn't notice until his crisis was down.

I am trying to communicate to you the importance of keeping your own shoes on your feet while you read and process this experience.  Please do not abandon your shoes and leave your feet bare to consider what it is like to be her.

Does that make sense?

This is not about her!  (Well, it is kind of)

(While you will be digesting her experience, maintain your OWN experience)

This is about you!
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« Reply #32 on: April 08, 2016, 03:29:00 PM »

Penelope 35

In reply/b]

She may respond to such an email from C.Stein for many other reasons other than being genuine. If for example she is trying to recycle,her abandonment fears may be triggered by such a response and will probably continue with more.


This is worrying about her reaction, and letting it affect your behaviour to such an extent that you are not stating your needs, for fear of upsetting the pwBPD. This is walking on eggshells. She is probably testing boundaries and looking for an ego boost. Very dangerous territory. By reading the email after all that has happened means that a key boundary has been crossed and for her, all she had to do was send an email. That is why I would ping back and state your boundary. The boundary is that you don't want communication that hurts you.

[/i]

In any case I don't think he should allow the ball back in her court... .That's kind of dangerous for any of us to allow.

In that case just delete the email and don't read it. But C.Stein is not of that mind set, and wants to see what the email contains, but appears to be fearful of the content. That is why I would put it back to her, to think about what she has written, and for C,Stein to state his boundary. The boundary being, I don't want to be hurt.

He is not in any way obligated to respond

I didn't say he was, I just said what I would do.

Just my opinion (coming from someone who keeps answering and keeps getting more hurt every time, no matter how genuine my ex's emails seem).



So why do you keep on answering?
[/b]

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« Reply #33 on: April 08, 2016, 03:37:30 PM »

I have gone back and read what you sent her.

First of all, I now understand why you have so many hours into these emails. They're a work of art.

However, there's nothing for me that springs to mind that could be a logical response. Your email had so many mixed topics and messages that it's a wild guess. On one hand you said you loved her, but on the other you said she's dead to you now.

Maybe she wants to reconcile? Maybe she wants to admit you were right and wish you the best of luck? Maybe she wants to lash out and hurt you with something?

In all honesty though, as long as you have made up your mind on whether you would take her back or not, then it doesn't matter what she sent you. She may be out to hurt you but what's it gonna do to you if you know she's a sick and twisted individual?

You said before, you went from being in a room with a thousand doors to being in a room with two. I think in the months that has passed, you've found yourself in a room with only one door and opening this email will allow you to walk through it.
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« Reply #34 on: April 08, 2016, 03:45:15 PM »

Embracing core autheticity means perceiving clearly that despite trepidation this both strokes our ego, triggers dormant dependence elements, and excites. Keep in mind that these metaphysical relational chess games include opening moves, counters, deductive reasoning, and sleepless nights. After reading the communique I hope you find peace or a wry sense of balance.
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« Reply #35 on: April 08, 2016, 03:50:18 PM »

Penelope 35

In reply/b]

She may respond to such an email from C.Stein for many other reasons other than being genuine. If for example she is trying to recycle,her abandonment fears may be triggered by such a response and will probably continue with more.


This is worrying about her reaction, and letting it affect your behaviour to such an extent that you are not stating your needs, for fear of upsetting the pwBPD. This is walking on eggshells. She is probably testing boundaries and looking for an ego boost. Very dangerous territory. By reading the email after all that has happened means that a key boundary has been crossed and for her, all she had to do was send an email. That is why I would ping back and state your boundary. The boundary is that you don't want communication that hurts you.

[/i]

In any case I don't think he should allow the ball back in her court... .That's kind of dangerous for any of us to allow.

In that case just delete the email and don't read it. But C.Stein is not of that mind set, and wants to see what the email contains, but appears to be fearful of the content. That is why I would put it back to her, to think about what she has written, and for C,Stein to state his boundary. The boundary being, I don't want to be hurt.

He is not in any way obligated to respond

I didn't say he was, I just said what I would do.

Just my opinion (coming from someone who keeps answering and keeps getting more hurt every time, no matter how genuine my ex's emails seem).



So why do you keep on answering?
[/b]

I just think that in the case he decides not to read it, there is no need to send anything to acknowledge her reaching out or to say that he won't read it.  I didn't think you said he was obligated to respond at all   Smiling (click to insert in post) It was just my thoughts that I put down. As far as your question about why I keep answering, I guess I am not strong enough to read and ignore yet. But I m hoping that C.Stein will handle this better than I do.
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« Reply #36 on: April 08, 2016, 06:28:36 PM »

Hi C.Stein

So what a news! What will you do? I would surely read it if I were in your shoes ! I would be too curious. But I would take some precautions. Either read it with someone or at least having someone in the same room, to be able to share your emotions after... .

Let us know!
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« Reply #37 on: April 08, 2016, 07:08:52 PM »

I am trying to communicate to you the importance of keeping your own shoes on your feet while you read and process this experience.

I can assure you there will be no inappropriate shoe wearing.  She chose to walk away from me the day after she betrayed my trust.  Those shoes are hers to wear and hers alone.

This is worrying about her reaction, and letting it affect your behaviour to such an extent that you are not stating your needs, for fear of upsetting the pwBPD. This is walking on eggshells. She is probably testing boundaries and looking for an ego boost. Very dangerous territory. By reading the email after all that has happened means that a key boundary has been crossed and for her, all she had to do was send an email. That is why I would ping back and state your boundary. The boundary is that you don't want communication that hurts you.

There will be no more eggshell walking.  I stopped walking on eggshells when I wrote the email she responded to.  I don't however think this is boundary testing because I have set no such boundary with her.  The choice is mine to read or not read and if there is a boundary being broken I am the one breaking it.

In that case just delete the email and don't read it. But C.Stein is not of that mind set, and wants to see what the email contains, but appears to be fearful of the content. That is why I would put it back to her, to think about what she has written, and for C,Stein to state his boundary. The boundary being, I don't want to be hurt.

Reading the email, or even reading and replying does not necessarily put the ball in her court.  She knows I don't want to be hurt anymore.  I highly doubt her intent here is to hurt me, that doesn't mean it won't.  This is mostly because she is at times unaware/incapable of seeing how her behavior/actions impact others.  This is especially true when strong emotions are involved.  I don't so much fear the content of the message as I do the emotions the message might raise.  This discussion is intended to lay down some anchor lines.

You are correct I do want to see what she has to say, especially given how she acted towards me in the end.  At the very least she owes me an apology, which I never got, not in the relationship nor after.  Even if it is not genuine it is something I would like to hear.

In all honesty though, as long as you have made up your mind on whether you would take her back or not, then it doesn't matter what she sent you. She may be out to hurt you but what's it gonna do to you if you know she's a sick and twisted individual?

I have not entertained any thoughts of reconciliation during this preparation.  If she is lashing out to hurt me then it will make it easier to let it all go, not harder.

You said before, you went from being in a room with a thousand doors to being in a room with two. I think in the months that has passed, you've found yourself in a room with only one door and opening this email will allow you to walk through it.

I'm no longer in the room, I'm in the dead space between hope/denial and acceptance, slowly moving towards acceptance.

Embracing core autheticity means perceiving clearly that despite trepidation this both strokes our ego, triggers dormant dependence elements, and excites. Keep in mind that these metaphysical relational chess games include opening moves, counters, deductive reasoning, and sleepless nights. After reading the communique I hope you find peace or a wry sense of balance.

A good point and are issues I am trying to get a handle on before I sit down at the chess game.

I just think that in the case he decides not to read it, there is no need to send anything to acknowledge her reaching out or to say that he won't read it.  I didn't think you said he was obligated to respond at all   Smiling (click to insert in post) It was just my thoughts that I put down. As far as your question about why I keep answering, I guess I am not strong enough to read and ignore yet. But I m hoping that C.Stein will handle this better than I do.

I don't feel obligated to respond in any way or even obligated to read it.   Make no mistake though, the rose colored glasses are off and the eggshells have been crushed to dust.  This email may simply be her trying to clear her conscious, which is a very good possibility, but also incredibly selfish, thoughtless and cold-hearted. 

So what a news! What will you do? I would surely read it if I were in your shoes ! I would be too curious. But I would take some precautions. Either read it with someone or at least having someone in the same room, to be able to share your emotions after... .

Let us know!

Yes Isa, very unexpected, although I always knew there was an small chance she might reach out at some point.

This site has been my "someone" during this whole ordeal ... .and her ghost that I can't seem to get out of my head and heart.
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« Reply #38 on: April 08, 2016, 07:42:25 PM »

C. Stein, I think you are in a pretty good place. Shouldn't be in harm in reading; but only you know for certain.

My hunch is the email will be pretty indifferent for the most part. Kind of like things never happened.

However, there will be slight tinges that if presumed would seem to be apologetic or emphatic.

Don't read too much into the 'hooks'.

And for those wishing to reconnect, this is where you show how 'indifferent' you are; like life is treating you good.

pwBPD like a confident mate. This email reaching out will be a test of that; or whether you fall back into your codependent traits.

It's pretty easy to reconnect to a pwBPD. Just be the person you were before you met; but that is also the hard part as you have already been emotional abused... .
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« Reply #39 on: April 08, 2016, 09:03:55 PM »

C. Stein,

Ok---there have many opinions voiced in this thread from both sides of the aisle and beyond---just read the d*** thing!  Now I'm as worked up as you are  and I'm not even the recipient!

LF
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« Reply #40 on: April 08, 2016, 09:46:19 PM »

Ok---there have many opinions voiced in this thread from both sides of the aisle and beyond---just read the d*** thing!  Now I'm as worked up as you are  and I'm not even the recipient!

Smiling (click to insert in post) Laugh out loud (click to insert in post)  Deep breaths LF, Deep breaths.
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« Reply #41 on: April 08, 2016, 10:23:39 PM »

boy, c stein. i really admire your patience and self control. the longer youre able to put off reading it, the better prepared you are, the more centered you are, and i think, the better youll react.

i want to add speculation to the speculation: theres a chance this email may be surprisingly anti climatic and/or confusing.

i did expect contact from my ex - some long detailed apology. i didnt get that, i got two facebook friend requests that were quickly rescinded. theres a lot of possibilities, any of what has been mentioned, but it could be less direct, more  

i guess what im saying is, not that there is any guarantee, but also prepare for the idea that this communication may provide more questions than answers.

whatever the case, as others have said, we are here to support you. youre doing great all ready, though i can imagine what receiving the email alone has put you through.
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« Reply #42 on: April 09, 2016, 05:55:04 AM »

It really boggles my mind how deeply this woman has impacted me.

There are a lot of parallels between your story and mine. My ex was a waif, she had lots of wonderful qualities, and during the r/s she turned into someone I couldn't recognize (which was disconcerting as hell when it happened at the 4 year mark; I felt like I had lost the ground beneath me).

Our r/s ended a year and a half ago. The first year was pretty much hell on wheels; moving out of the home we had shared helped immeasurably. The other thing that helped was getting into therapy as the r/s was ending.

I'm doing much better these days, but there are still places that I am "stuck" - even though I want to forgive and move forward. One of the big ones is her betrayal (cheating) - I can't seem to get over the indignation; the hurt and the deeply felt anger. I want to let go of it but I'm struggling. Even though, intellectually, I understand her (significant) mental health issues.

This is what I've just started scratching the surface of with my T; that she is a stand-in. Although what she did was sh**ty, my intense feelings about it are really a reflection of older betrayals from my childhood. If you had told me this a year and a half ago, I would have scoffed. But it's true.

What's also true is that I've often thought your very words: It really boggles my mind how deeply this woman has impacted me. What I'm learning is that she has served as a trigger that has pointed me towards these festering wounds I've lived with for a very long time. When I come out on the other side, I suspect I will be glad that I met her if for no other reason that knowing her has spurred me to deal with these wounds in myself.

I don't know if you're ready to read the letter. Perhaps the fact that you are conflicted is a clue that you aren't ready. Maybe pick a date in the future?... .a month from now, two months from now - to check in with yourself to see if you're ready. I was sometimes surprised and what a difference a month or two could make (in terms of how I was feeling about everything).
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« Reply #43 on: April 09, 2016, 08:22:52 AM »

boy, c stein. i really admire your patience and self control. the longer youre able to put off reading it, the better prepared you are, the more centered you are, and i think, the better youll react.

I have been sitting on it for about a week.  I do feel better prepared emotionally although I know I will never really be fully prepared for what is most likely in that email.  I am almost tempted to just construct my own version of what she said but at this point I think maybe ripping the scab off is the only way to move forward regardless of how painful it might be.  I still find myself with tears in my eyes on multiple occasions every day for no apparent reason.  Apparently I am still dealing with a lot of residual pain even if I feel much better than I did 4 months ago.

i guess what im saying is, not that there is any guarantee, but also prepare for the idea that this communication may provide more questions than answers.

Yea, unfortunately this is one possible scenario.  The more I think about it and the timing of the email the more I am beginning to believe she is looking to clear her conscious.  Given that likelihood, this email could contain information that will cut me deep ... .again.  This is what I need to prepare for.

It really boggles my mind how deeply this woman has impacted me.

There are a lot of parallels between your story and mine. My ex was a waif, she had lots of wonderful qualities, and during the r/s she turned into someone I couldn't recognize (which was disconcerting as hell when it happened at the 4 year mark; I felt like I had lost the ground beneath me).

Yes, exactly.  When she betrayed my trust and then did nothing to repair the damage I completely lost the ground under my feet and didn't really recognize her anymore.  This was incredibly difficult for me to deal with.  As a result I essentially shut down emotionally becoming withdrawn, distant and depressed.  The woman I was in love with had essentially become a stranger and she simply couldn't see what she had done to me.

I'm doing much better these days, but there are still places that I am "stuck" - even though I want to forgive and move forward. One of the big ones is her betrayal (cheating) - I can't seem to get over the indignation; the hurt and the deeply felt anger. I want to let go of it but I'm struggling. Even though, intellectually, I understand her (significant) mental health issues.

I am also doing somewhat better but the likely affair, which she will almost certainly deny happened, is without a doubt the most difficult and damaging thing she did.  Of all the things she did this hurts the most.  The thought of her cultivating and building an emotional bond with another man while she watched me drown in the pain and depression she had caused still tears me apart to this day.

What's also true is that I've often thought your very words: It really boggles my mind how deeply this woman has impacted me. What I'm learning is that she has served as a trigger that has pointed me towards these festering wounds I've lived with for a very long time. When I come out on the other side, I suspect I will be glad that I met her if for no other reason that knowing her has spurred me to deal with these wounds in myself.

I don't think I have any childhood betrayals that I can think of, but I have been cheated on by several different woman I have allowed myself to fall in love with.  I believe we did talk about this early on, especially after her implied threats to cheat on me, but she reassured me this was something she would never do.  This makes an emotional/physical affair by her 1000x more damaging and would explain why this has impacted me so deeply.  I had numerous "gut instincts" and many red flags that I questioned but always ended up giving her the benefit of the doubt and trusting her.  The betrayal of trust has been equally difficult to come to terms with.  This is also the first time in my life I have ever been physically impacted by emotional damage.

I don't know if you're ready to read the letter. Perhaps the fact that you are conflicted is a clue that you aren't ready. Maybe pick a date in the future?... .a month from now, two months from now - to check in with yourself to see if you're ready. I was sometimes surprised and what a difference a month or two could make (in terms of how I was feeling about everything).

I don't feel there will ever be a time when I am truly prepared.  Even when I reach a state of indifference, if she "comes clean" in this email it will still hurt.  Certainly not as bad but it still will.

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« Reply #44 on: April 09, 2016, 08:30:30 AM »

To be honest, I believe you already gave her too much power over you. Just by thinking so much about this... .

"Should I read it?"

"When should I read it?"

... .

Whatever is in there, shouldn't impact you so much... .

Even if there are two extreme points: either she is validating your feelings or either she made up some excuse to contact you so that you can validate her feelings... .

It doesn't matter.

You are holding the key of your recovery... . 
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« Reply #45 on: April 09, 2016, 09:05:26 AM »

To be honest, I believe you already gave her too much power over you. Just by thinking so much about this... .

"Should I read it?"

"When should I read it?"

I know it seems like that but I haven't really thought about it that much outside this thread.  I am however still having conversations with her in my head, but then I was before I got the email.

Whatever is in there, shouldn't impact you so much... .

Even if there are two extreme points: either she is validating your feelings or either she made up some excuse to contact you so that you can validate her feelings... .

It doesn't matter.

You are holding the key of your recovery... .

You are absolutely correct!   Smiling (click to insert in post)
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« Reply #46 on: April 09, 2016, 09:08:46 AM »

Hi C. Stein

I can relate to a lot of what you're feeling and to what the other members have shared.

After over a year of NC with my ex I got an unsolicited text from her. For a while it totally floored me.

I didn't respond, but her words burrowed into my heart and kept me stuck even longer.

Deep down I wanted to believe that she still loved me.

For her to acknowledge that she'd made a terrible mistake.

For her to want to make it all right.

The thing is - her words were just words. She might have believed them for a moment, a day or even a week, but her feelings were fleeting and driven by her own needs

Words can be very seductive but they don't change anything. We're not defined by what we say - we're defined by what we do

The best of luck either way.

Reforming
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« Reply #47 on: April 09, 2016, 09:11:17 AM »

Apart from having every faith in you that you can handle this, I know there will be a lot of members biting their nails this weekend. Waiting for the opening and revealing of the email. Never going far from their devices or computers so they won't miss it. It's like waiting for the new season of The Walking Dead  Smiling (click to insert in post)
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« Reply #48 on: April 09, 2016, 09:35:03 AM »

Deep down I wanted to believe that she still loved me.

For her to acknowledge that she'd made a terrible mistake.

For her to want to make it all right.

Yes, Yes and Yes.  I think this is what we all want(ed) on some level from our ex's that threw us away.  I would be lying if I said I don't still love her on some level, even if the number of I hate you's that have passed my lips over the past three months cannot be counted.  I say the words but I don't feel the hate.  Anger, yes, but not hate.  Very confusing.

The thing is - her words were just words. She might have believed them for a moment, a day or even a week, but her feelings were fleeting and driven by her own needs

Sad but probably true.  I always felt this overwhelming need within her, a need to be seen as a good person by others, perhaps because she doesn't feel like she is a good person (which is generally not true).  She needs that validation because she can't provide it for herself.   I also believe this is what drives much of her inability to accept responsibility for her hurtful actions and consequences of.

Words can be very seductive but they don't change anything. We're not defined by what we say - we're defined by what we do

Yes they can be and that was a big problem in our relationship.  Her promises and words weren't backed up with actions in the most important cases.  This effectively kept me and the relationship in a very unstable state, always wondering when the other shoe would drop.  Living with this fear generated a great deal of anxiety and stress within me.  In some ways I think this is where she wanted me to be ... .always in fear of the other shoe.

Apart from having every faith in you that you can handle this, I know there will be a lot of members biting their nails this weekend. Waiting for the opening and revealing of the email. Never going far from their devices or computers so they won't miss it. It's like waiting for the new season of The Walking Dead  Smiling (click to insert in post)

If I choose to discuss it here I will open a new thread.  There is a limit to how much I will share even if it is anonymous.   Smiling (click to insert in post)
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« Reply #49 on: April 09, 2016, 09:39:22 AM »

What's also true is that I've often thought your very words: It really boggles my mind how deeply this woman has impacted me. What I'm learning is that she has served as a trigger that has pointed me towards these festering wounds I've lived with for a very long time. When I come out on the other side, I suspect I will be glad that I met her if for no other reason that knowing her has spurred me to deal with these wounds in myself.

I don't think I have any childhood betrayals that I can think of, but I have been cheated on by several different woman I have allowed myself to fall in love with.  I believe we did talk about this early on, especially after her implied threats to cheat on me, but she reassured me this was something she would never do.  This makes an emotional/physical affair by her 1000x more damaging and would explain why this has impacted me so deeply.  I had numerous "gut instincts" and many red flags that I questioned but always ended up giving her the benefit of the doubt and trusting her.  The betrayal of trust has been equally difficult to come to terms with.  This is also the first time in my life I have ever been physically impacted by emotional damage.

I'm sorry to hear that - I lived for four years with the (situational) depression, anxiety and the stress of being in a r/s with someone who is unstable.  I feel fortunate to have escaped without physical repercussions. Stress can (and does) make people physically sick in many ways.

The fact that you have been involved with multiple women who have cheated on you suggests a pattern that you may want to examine more closely.

When I began therapy, I said that, overall, I appreciated that my parents provided us with a stable home - and in many ways I still appreciate it. They remained married, my mom stayed home and raised us, and we never had any serious financial worries. My parents, though imperfect, did the best they could. That was my story, and I was stickin' to it.

A year and a half into therapy and I recognize that my story has many shades of grey. There were several betrayals that wounded me deeply as a child - and that continue to have an impact on my adulthood. I'll share one with you (and should probably also share that I'm a bisexual woman or you'll get confused with all the pronoun switches! Smiling (click to insert in post) )

My dad was a nice, easy going guy who was hit once - once - by an uncle as he was growing up (for disrespecting his mother when he was an older teen). Conversely, my mom was an intense, anxious and often raging woman who hit us repeatedly as we were growing up - often a slap in the face out of no where (even as toddlers); while at other times we were hit with a metal spoon.

"So what?" I used to think. "Lots of kids get hit. It wasn't fun, but it wasn't a super-huge deal. What she did wasn't severe. No blood, no broken bones."

Whenever I think about my childhood, I always think about my mom - she was the dominant force, the one who disciplined us, the one to be feared, the one to be reckoned with. But over the past year I've started thinking a lot more about my dad.

Where exactly was he? How did he watch without ever intervening, even though he was raised without physical punishment? What kind of man watches his children get beat and doesn't step in? The conclusion that I came to when I was a child is that he loved her more; that I wasn't worth defending; that I was on my own in figuring out how to deal with her physical raging because I couldn't turn to him for help. This, through the eyes of a child, is betrayal and abandonment - not to mention a pretty big self esteem killer.

Is it any wonder that for most of my life I've viewed men as unreliable and only concerned with what they need, not with what I might need? That my romantic r/s's with men often fill me with anxiety - and that I've been single for long stretches of my adulthood as a result? This is part of what my childhood taught me about men - and I didn't even recognize it as a betrayal until recently. Until I became uncomfortable with my inability to let go of my ex's betrayal. I've let go of many other things from the r/s - but not the betrayal. I'm learning that there are reasons for that - and I'm uncovering them through therapy.

I'm not trying to insist that you were betrayed as a child. I'm only trying to point out that the things that I'm still struggling with a year and a half after the r/s ended are things that actually have little to do with my ex anymore. My ex has become a "pointer" to wounds in me that existed long before we met.


I don't know if you're ready to read the letter. Perhaps the fact that you are conflicted is a clue that you aren't ready. Maybe pick a date in the future?... .a month from now, two months from now - to check in with yourself to see if you're ready. I was sometimes surprised and what a difference a month or two could make (in terms of how I was feeling about everything).

I don't feel there will ever be a time when I am truly prepared.  Even when I reach a state of indifference, if she "comes clean" in this email it will still hurt.  Certainly not as bad but it still will.

It isn't true that there will never be a time that you can read the letter without pain. I feel fairly certain that if I received an email from my ex today that it wouldn't throw me for a loop.  It would have 6 months or a year ago, when I didn't recognize that some (some) of the pain I was feeling was an ancient pain that was rising up in me - and honestly had nothing to do with anyone else.
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« Reply #50 on: April 09, 2016, 10:04:35 AM »

The fact that you have been involved with multiple women who have cheated on you suggests a pattern that you may want to examine more closely.

Yes.  It was mostly due to immaturity and poor choices.  I have come a long way since those days (decades ago).

A year and a half into therapy and I recognize that my story has many shades of grey. There were several betrayals that wounded me deeply as a child - and that continue to have an impact on my adulthood. I'll share one with you (and should probably also share that I'm a bisexual woman or you'll get confused with all the pronoun switches! Smiling (click to insert in post) )

I can see where you are coming from on this and can relate somewhat.  Corporal punishment was a part of my early childhood, although I don't really attach any lasting emotional impact to it.  One parent doled out the punishment the other didn't.  Your situation was different where your mom was being abusive while your dad stood by.  I might posit that perhaps your dad was fearful of your mom raging on him so he kept silent?  It wasn't an issue of who he loved more but rather an issue of who he feared more.  Something to consider.   Smiling (click to insert in post)

It isn't true that there will never be a time that you can read the letter without pain. I feel fairly certain that if I received an email from my ex today that it wouldn't throw me for a loop.  It would have 6 months or a year ago, when I didn't recognize that some (some) of the pain I was feeling was an ancient pain that was rising up in me - and honestly had nothing to do with anyone else.

Yea, I don't know.  I think about past relationships that I now am indifferent about which at the time got hurt badly by.  In those cases I don't think it would emotionally impact me at all to find out things that would have hurt me badly back then.  That said, I also didn't open myself to those women like I did with my recent ex, with exception to maybe one of them.
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« Reply #51 on: April 09, 2016, 10:06:31 AM »

jhkbuzz, wow... You're so describing the start of where I think I'm at... I too was focused on my dominant mum who would slap and who was always so so angry I could sense it and only recently I've started to think about the role of my dad. Soft, gentle, anxious, emotionally immature and either absent through work or when present somehow not part of the family unit.
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« Reply #52 on: April 09, 2016, 10:14:14 AM »

If I choose to discuss it here I will open a new thread.  There is a limit to how much I will share even if it is anonymous.   Smiling (click to insert in post)

Gosh no, I don't mean for you to copy the email here... It's more of a 'I can almost feel the suspense' comment. Maybe because a lot of us have not received an email so there is curiosity what a pwBPD could possibly say at this point, plus concern how you will handle reading it, the content, the aftermath etc, plus perhaps some here might hope through you happy endings are still an option.

But by all means, it's a private conversation between her and you.
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« Reply #53 on: April 09, 2016, 10:15:31 AM »

The fact that you have been involved with multiple women who have cheated on you suggests a pattern that you may want to examine more closely.

Yes.  It was mostly due to immaturity and poor choices.  I have come a long way since those days (decades ago).

... .except that you appear to have been involved with another woman who has cheated on you    No condemnation here, just pointing it out.

A year and a half into therapy and I recognize that my story has many shades of grey. There were several betrayals that wounded me deeply as a child - and that continue to have an impact on my adulthood. I'll share one with you (and should probably also share that I'm a bisexual woman or you'll get confused with all the pronoun switches! Smiling (click to insert in post) )

I can see where you are coming from on this and can relate somewhat.  Corporal punishment was a part of my early childhood, although I don't really attach any lasting emotional impact to it. One parent doled out the punishment the other didn't.  Your situation was different where your mom was being abusive while your dad stood by.

I negated the emotional impact of it as well - until this past last year. And if only one of your parents was doling out the punishment, then your other parent must have been watching also?

Not trying to make a mountain out of a molehill here - your struggles are your own and may be very different than mine. Just pointing out some inconsistencies in your responses.

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« Reply #54 on: April 09, 2016, 10:20:53 AM »

jhkbuzz, wow... You're so describing the start of where I think I'm at... I too was focused on my dominant mum who would slap and who was always so so angry I could sense it and only recently I've started to think about the role of my dad. Soft, gentle, anxious, emotionally immature and either absent through work or when present somehow not part of the family unit.

And how do you think this has affected your adulthood?
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« Reply #55 on: April 09, 2016, 10:38:14 AM »

jhkbuzz, wow... You're so describing the start of where I think I'm at... I too was focused on my dominant mum who would slap and who was always so so angry I could sense it and only recently I've started to think about the role of my dad. Soft, gentle, anxious, emotionally immature and either absent through work or when present somehow not part of the family unit.

And how do you think this has affected your adulthood?

That I can only function as a reasonably balanced adult when I'm not in a relationship. That I choose emotionally immature men only. Either cold ones (my mum) or soft ones (my dad) or a strange mixture of the two (my last ex) but the older I get the more disturbed the men I choose. It's obvious I haven't learned my lesson + gathered more traumatic experiences over time and if I don't really put the work in now and really get it the next one might be so scr*wed up I end up dead.
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« Reply #56 on: April 09, 2016, 10:44:10 AM »

... .except that you appear to have been involved with another woman who has cheated on you    No condemnation here, just pointing it out.

A unfortunate point I am all too aware of.  There is always a risk in romantic relationships.  In this case I chose to believe in her and give her the benefit of the doubt.  I do not see this as a flaw in my character that needs fixing.  What needs fixing perhaps is my reluctance to give up on someone I love.

I negated the emotional impact of it as well - until this past last year. And if only one of your parents was doling out the punishment, then your other parent must have been watching also?

Not trying to make a mountain out of a molehill here - your struggles are your own and may be very different than mine. Just pointing out some inconsistencies in your responses.

There was no watching going on in my case.  We were removed to the basement for our punishment by dad, which consisted of a single paddle wack to the butt.  I don't remember it happening often, but I do remember it happening.

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« Reply #57 on: April 09, 2016, 10:55:59 AM »

jhkbuzz, wow... You're so describing the start of where I think I'm at... I too was focused on my dominant mum who would slap and who was always so so angry I could sense it and only recently I've started to think about the role of my dad. Soft, gentle, anxious, emotionally immature and either absent through work or when present somehow not part of the family unit.

And how do you think this has affected your adulthood?

That I can only function as a reasonably balanced adult when I'm not in a relationship. That I choose emotionally immature men only. Either cold ones (my mum) or soft ones (my dad) or a strange mixture of the two (my last ex) but the older I get the more disturbed the men I choose. It's obvious I haven't learned my lesson + gathered more traumatic experiences over time and if I don't really put the work in now and really get it the next one might be so scr*wed up I end up dead.

It's not so much about "learning your lesson" - it's more repetition compulsion - "doing it over" in an effort to finally "fix it" and put it to rest. Except for the fact that the "do overs" with other adults never fix anything - and lead to a world of pain. Are you seeing a T?

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« Reply #58 on: April 09, 2016, 11:03:09 AM »

A psychologist actually not a T. But I can't get to her office now as I can't walk due to my illness. I talk to her on the phone every week for half an hour but it's more supportive talks to manage being ill, in pain, alone, scared of loosing my job etc. When I can walk and sit long enough to go to her office I can get some proper work done.
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« Reply #59 on: April 09, 2016, 11:05:51 AM »

In this case I chose to believe in her and give her the benefit of the doubt.  I do not see this as a flaw in my character that needs fixing. What needs fixing perhaps is my reluctance to give up on someone I love.

I'm so confused... .now you're 'giving her the benefit of the doubt'? So you don't think she had an affair?


Excerpt
There was no watching going on in my case.

I used "watching" pretty loosely... .he wasn't always watching - but he certainly knew what was happening, even if he wasn't present in the room. He was complicit.
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« Reply #60 on: April 09, 2016, 11:08:57 AM »

A psychologist actually not a T. But I can't get to her office now as I can't walk due to my illness. I talk to her on the phone every week for half an hour but it's more supportive talks to manage being ill, in pain, alone, scared of loosing my job etc. When I can walk and sit long enough to go to her office I can get some proper work done.

I'm not sure I know the difference between a psychologist and a T - I use them interchangeably! Smiling (click to insert in post) A psychiatrist is definitely in a category of his/her own, however.

I'm sorry to hear about your illness   
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« Reply #61 on: April 09, 2016, 11:10:09 AM »

I'm so confused... .now you're 'giving her the benefit of the doubt'? So you don't think she had an affair?

Benefit of the doubt with respect to her past and red flags early in the relationship.

I do not know with 100% certainty she did have an affair, only that there are enough signs that strongly suggest she was about 2 months prior to her 2nd discard.  The third and last discard came about a month later via text.
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« Reply #62 on: April 09, 2016, 11:10:46 AM »

I'm so confused... .now you're 'giving her the benefit of the doubt'? So you don't think she had an affair?

Benefit of the doubt with respect to her past and red flags early in the relationship.

I understand.  Smiling (click to insert in post)
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« Reply #63 on: April 09, 2016, 11:21:02 AM »

Staff only

This topic has reached it post limit.

Thanks to all who participated.

Feel free to continue the discussion in a new thread.
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