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VIDEO: "What is parental alienation?" Parental alienation is when a parent allows a child to participate or hear them degrade the other parent. This is not uncommon in divorces and the children often adjust. In severe cases, however, it can be devastating to the child. This video provides a helpful overview.
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Author Topic: Dealing with being painted black  (Read 3239 times)
Stripey77
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« on: April 18, 2016, 04:20:57 AM »

I wonder if anyone would be so kind as to cast an eye over the last post I made on my 'introduction' board? It is the one thing I am struggling with above all... .I am getting stronger every single day, and accepting my lot. But I just wondered how anyone else here has coped with being painted black by someone they love so much. My ex sees me and he cannot HELP but look at me, but he essentially totally blanks me. He acts as if he has never even met me. It is incredibly, horribly painful. We live in a very small town populated with ex-pats of all different nationalities, but we are like one big family here. We all know each other and our circles overlap. Every time it happens I feel humiliated, as if I am being punished, and so on. I do not ever attempt to approach him, for those of you who haven't read my posts about this, I walked away from him on the small hours of Christmas morning when he was ranting and ranting and ranting at me for around 40 minutes about why he'd deleted me from his life, and all of my misdemeanors. My heart had sunk into my shoes, I already knew he had deleted me from all social media, yet here he was making sure I knew all about it, and my one thought throughout was... .this is never going end. This will never be over. How can it be if someone who has deleted you has to come to tell you all about it? It's madness. We haven't spoken since and I haven't given him one inch as I don't want him to take the proverbial mile. I suspect he is angry and resentful as well as surprised because I was probably supposed to come back begging again. I haven't. I have stayed silent, calm and have reflected his silence. I have refused to even look at him when we've seen each other. I almost feel like waving to him next time I see him, it really does feel as if I'm dealing with a toddler who's had a massive temper tantrum and doesn't know how to come back down.  He has NO idea how heartbroken, hurt and devastated I am because I have maintained total silence. I haven't deleted him from anything, but even the sight of me a couple of weeks ago caused him to go home and block me from his IG account, which I found out totally by the by. I am obviously still under his skin. I want SO much to be civil, to be friendly and able to say hello and pass the time of day at least, anything other than this continued hostility from him. I guess in his mind I have walked (even though he pushed me spectacularly hard) and rejected him, because I didn't stand there begging him, so I've show him a strength he didn't know I had. Maybe that's where I went wrong, but I can't help thinking that him seeing my pain would put me on a massive back foot. I suppose what I'm asking is if anyone else has gone through this, or is going through it now? How do you cope? It is so very painful. He seems to be about a million miles away from me right now and the sight of me obviously triggers some kind of turmoil or rage in him. When I see him, my mouth tingles, my legs go wobbly, the works. Yes, even  months later. I am getting stronger all of the time, I just want to know if anyone has any coping tactics? Other than simply avoiding vast swathes of my own town.  

I am so very, very tired out by all of this. I go on holiday/back home in a week and am counting the days. I feel as if I have aged 1,000 years in the last 6 months, and sometimes can't recognise the exhausted woman looking back at me in the mirror. I cannot even believe last summer, I was feeling the happiest I have ever felt in my life, in a bubble of perfect contentment. I can't remember what truly feeling happy feels like, but I remember that last time I felt it was in November when I was with him. It's been an existence since then. What a sad waste of days we can't get back.
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WoundedBibi
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« Reply #1 on: April 18, 2016, 06:10:42 AM »

The thing is you wanting to be on a friendly footing does not depend on you. It depends on him. And he can't do it. Your ex seems in some ways similar to mine and for my ex my sheer presence was enough to set him off in a rage. Even when I thought we had passed into a friendlier stage I would still set him off.

Example: I went on holiday, saw him in passing a few hours before leaving. He looked at me clearly hoping the hate in his eyes would make me drop dead on the spot.

I came back and needed to call the office to check what shift I was on on my first day back. Who answered the phone? Of course... .Deep breath. If I had "finally relaxed enough?" Deep breath... And I managed to calmly and in a VERY relaxed way answer "oh yes... ." Got the answer to the shift question. Went to work. Asked him the next day in passing, me very relaxed, him with a twitching face, where I could find female colleague so and so as her desk had been moved. He told me, I left a small present on her desk from my holidays.

No personal contact happened, nothing significant on any level work wise either. So I thought we had past the worst. About 2 weeks later he sent (normal procedure) an email to the group of direct colleagues announcing him going on vacation. The email was exceptionally long. It was filled with references and stabs in my direction only I would get. Who would do his work while he was gone, how much he loved them. How you were nobody until you were truly loved. How a certain someone (the number one flying monkey he tried to triangulate me with I just didn't play along) advised him so well and told him not to open his mail while away. A link to a love song he used to sing for me. And an inappropriate link to a song about drinking too much and that it's nobody's business but the one drinking. Apparently none of my colleagues either watched that last one or thought it a problem but me. And some more stuff. Now... .who had to finally get relaxed again?

There was no reason for this. Nothing had happened after I came back. We had spoken on the phone and he seemed relaxed and I has answered in a relaxed way. I never showed any reaction to his vacation email.

The fact I was there, I existed, I still was breathing was enough for him to want to do this. Him seeing me from a large distance was enough to make his mood change dramatically. The same goes for your ex. The only thing I could do was remove myself from the scene to prevent more damage. Not knowing shortly after I would actually get seriously ill.

You have no control over your ex. Your presence seems enough to set him off. There is something that makes an enormous difference though: my ex has something magical about him that gave him a large following who believed or excused all he said or did. That was a huge disadvantage for me. Your ex doesn't seem to have an army of flying monkeys. People are less likely to side with him just because they cannot get away from his gravitational pull. How ever painful it is, live your life, avoid him and let him burn out like a dying star.
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Stripey77
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« Reply #2 on: April 18, 2016, 08:38:33 AM »

Hi Bibi,

Thanks for this. He definitely has a little group of friends around him who have become his new 'gang'. If he's not out drinking alone, he's spending time with them doing all the things he and I used to do together, in particular with the lady friend who I think has stepped into my shoes, but as a friend. He hasn't even managed to turn her against me, she will come and talk to me if she sees me out, and has put photos of her and I up on her FB together. I cannot begin to imagine how much that must have got to him. It makes me so sad. I don't think he's happy, but he put us in this situation.

I agree with a lot of what you're saying, but I don't think it's rage he's feeling towards me. I can't put a finger on it but take the night in the restaurant where he walked past me some weeks ago; he was with his parents (I assume that's who they were)  and me with a whole group of other girls including my friend he adores. He ignored all of us. It's the first time I've been face to face with him since the night I walked out on him ranting at me. I expected to see HATE or rage in his eyes. I looked up to hope to catch his eye, fully expecting to see rage or similar, as I say. What I actually saw his face twist into a kind of guilty (?) smirk as he quickly tore his eyes away from me. He'd been looking at me all right. But not angrily. That seriously surprised me and I still struggle to put a finger on what expression was exactly. Embarrassment?  I saw the exact same look on his face just a few weeks ago when he saw me sitting in 'his' local wine bar. I looked up just in time to see that same look on his face (he didn't see me looking at him) A kind of twisted smile of resignation, someone on a back foot... .someone not in control of someone they thought they controlled? Hard to say.  That's the week he went home and blocked me on his IG, after 3 months of no contact, which as I've said elsewhere, I can only assume was to prevent him having to see my presence on there, not the other way round. Because I never contact him or try to interact with him, so it's not as if he needed to block me from that point of view.  At the time of writing, I remain unblocked on either Skype or Whatsapp, both of which we used to communicate.

I just feel so terribly sad about it all. Still. It is surreal. Surreal that someone could expend this much energy into avoiding/blocking someone whose heart they broke - not the other way round! 

I have been avoiding him for 3, almost 4 months. Enough is enough, I live in this very small town as well and I am fed up of feeling frightened to go various bars, the supermarket etc. I have been timing my trips to the shops at times I know he'll be at work so as not to cross paths with him - but why? He isn't going to do anything to me. That's no way to live. As I so clearly do get under his skin still, I feel almost more resolved to be seen out and about and make sure that I go where I want and that he sees me doing what I want. Sigh... .
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WoundedBibi
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« Reply #3 on: April 18, 2016, 09:25:48 AM »

The thing is, his heart is broken too. Indirectly he broke it himself but he doesn't see it like that. He blames you.
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WoundedBibi
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« Reply #4 on: April 18, 2016, 09:39:25 AM »

Not having to work with him is another major advantage you have. I felt like a hunted animal at work as the group he got involved in his version grew and grew. Every time I looked up from my work, went to the toilet, went for a break, lunch, a meeting, home, whatever, there would be people whispering and looking, pointing, laughing, giving me the death stare, giving me the cold shoulder, not speaking anymore when we used have loads of fun... .It was like being back in school. So childish. So not me. I don't do gossip because I know it can damage people.

And from his perspective so incredibly stupid and so not thought through... He had already been in trouble with HR over an alleged affair with a subordinate. The more people you involve the bigger the chance word will reach management or HR. So if you want to avoid trouble you keep your mouth shut. But no... .

If you feel comfortable enough to go around doing your thing without thinking about if he will be there, do. But for your sake, so you don't get hurt or sucked back in, I would ignore him.
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Stripey77
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« Reply #5 on: April 18, 2016, 10:11:16 AM »

Bibi, you are probably right.  And yet to all outward appearances, he appears to be having the time of his life. If you think being drunk all the time is having the time of his life.

I feel as though we're trapped in a stand-off and contact would burst a bubble that needs to be burst, if that makes any sense. The tension and pain is unbelievable for me. He looks like he's doing a-OK, but then, going by MY social media posts and pictures, you would say the same about me.  Breaking up from anyone is hard enough, but when someone almost turns into someone else in front of your eyes, and then acts as if they never even knew you... .I just don't know how the hell this open wound is ever going to close. It just feels like it won't. Despite everything, I am still love  him. Dr. Jekyll, that is, not Mr. Hyde. I didn't know it was possible to miss someone this much. Somehow I have even found it in myself to feel sorry for him. I am absolutely sure those new friends around him, who only know the 'party' version of him, have no idea at all what they are actually dealing with. They probably won't ever be exposed to it.

In the week when he dropped off the face of the earth (and left me for the 2nd time 3 weeks later) we had a very sad text conversation in which he suddenly told me that his brain was injured (as well as his knee in football) Now, one could take this as a joke as I was remonstrating with him for not having asked about my day. This was during our 'recycle' and we had just spent a passionate weekend together in which he told me how very happy he was, seeing my new home, being with me. I have never seen his eyes light up so much as they did that weekend.  The thing is, who jokes that their brain is injured?  I trod very carefully but asked him what he meant, and did he want to tell me anything... .I was already beginning to suspect that something was VERY up because in the conversation (at my birthday night out no less) leading to our getting back together that same night he stopped me in the bar and made the following statements:

"I don't deserve you"

"You should forget me and hate me"

"It's complicated"

"You're one of the most important people in my life"

We got back together that night, after he asked me to come home with him. I went like a shot.

It's not the first time he told me to forget and hate him either... .he had said the same 6 weeks before when I was practically begging him for another chance. He walked out on me that night, saying the 'decision was made'. Months before, he had alluded to himself having a very dark side, which of course I rubbished at the time, being so in love and in bliss at the time. He said I brought out the best side of him, but that he definitely had a dark side to him. This was months before. I woke up on my birthday in his arms and in a state of pure euphoria, but non the wiser as to what was wrong with him or why I should forget him. I was back with the man I loved!... .I tried to ask him what he had meant and braced himself,  thinking it was going to be something like a wife/children back in his country. If only it had been something so wonderfully simple.

So when he texted me telling me that his brain was injured, you can bet you life I let him talk (by text) He told me that everything about him was wrong. Lots of things. That maybe I would be able to heal him. That he was very glad I was here for him, that he needs me.  I told him I loved him and he could tell me anything, because nothing would put me off him. But he didn't elaborate other to say that he was happy he had me.

I went out with him for a drink a few nights later, and asked him to tell me what he'd meant. He immediately tried to dismiss it all, saying that he'd been joking. I said, I think not. He THEN said, it was impossible to explain because he can't even explain it to himself. So, not a joke then. I said again, there is nothing whatsoever that is going to put me off you, or change my mind about you. Everyone deserves a second chance.  I love you. He kept saying again "Are you sure about that? Are you sure? are you sure?"  But once he said he couldn't explain it, the conversation was over.  Again, no explanation. We went home and I slept in his arms, where he held me even tighter than ever before.

The next night, he deliberately kept me waiting for him all night after telling me were going for dinner. I believe he got totally and utterly drunk instead. Some 2 hours after we were supposed to be meeting, he finally told me he was 'at home, almost ready'. Apparently, I was supposed to interpret that as meaning I should come round. Do you remember what you said about mind reading, Bibi? This is a classic case in point. Because I didn't read his mind and run round straight away, when he was ready to sleep 40 minutes later (no doubt tanked full of beer) it was somehow MY fault that we'd not gone out together. I waited 3 hours, dressed up to the 9s, ready to meet him and went to bed totally crushed. He said he was sure I was looking beautiful, and admitted that he had already been falling asleep. I suspect because, for the 2nd time that week. he'd got too drunk to actually see me.  The next day he stopped talking to me. For 3 WHOLE WEEKS.

Until I saw him out on a night out and he pulled me over - after 3 weeks of limbo- to tell me that we were over because... .wait for it:

"I've been thinking about us a lot as a couple. It can't work because I know how much you love me, and my feelings will never be that strong."

He pulled me over to break up with me after 3 weeks of limbo, after standing me up, after spilling his heart out to me about his injured brain and needing me, how glad he is to have me.  After deliberately seeking me out on my birthday, and being seen doing so having waited about an hour for me in the bar, to get back together with me and tell me that 'something has been missing all this time' that he could shelter me again, that he 'always' loved me. HE instigated getting back together, and then 5 weeks later is telling me the mistake was his and he shouldn't have done it. I can't help but think that him telling me that his brain is injured is a significant factor in all of this.  I got too close. And after breaking up with me, in the bar, he literally walked out mid conversation. Not for the first time. I actually walked out after him this time, caught up with him and told him to his face that he is a coward.  I STILL didn't really know about BPD at this point... I'd dismissed it as a possibility... .but if this doesn't fit the description, I don't know what does.

He then found the perfect vehicle to paint me black a few weeks later, because I had the audacity to speak to his new friend when he was away. They approached me btw, and we shared a fair few drinks together, in which she told me allllll the lovely things he'd been doing for her. Just before  he had got back together with me. She unwittingly revealed him to me, in minute detail. And as a result... .I find myself deleted, blocked and 'deleted from his life'... .you know the rest.

I am coping, I am living, I've finally stopped going on and on and on and on at my friends about it every day. But it's not switched off in my head. I just keep getting up, living, breathing, working, working out, seeing friends... .and hoping the pain is going to dissipate. I feel so very, very sad about it all though. And the thing I am saddest about is how much he seems to be trying to hate me, when all I have ever done is love him with my whole heart.
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Stripey77
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« Reply #6 on: April 18, 2016, 10:26:54 AM »

I have ignored him, for months. I am just so terribly sad about it. I miss him so much, it hurts. I am sure he is hurt. The anger is a defence. No I'm not comfortable doing it, it terrifies me because I am still attached to him and care so much. But I manage to put on the act when I go out, and I pull it off.

I'm sure it shocked him to the CORE for me to walk away when he was ranting and ranting at me. I just took a deep breath and walked. My last words to him being that I loved him but that basically... .he's a head case. He met his match. He met someone he can't control. Someone who told him they loved him deeply but when he pushed me away the 2nd time, I cracked on with my life. The first time, I wrote him a letter. I told him how sad I was, that I respected his decision but thanking him for how very, very happy he'd made me.  This time... .I went quiet.

The ranting was because I'd dared to speak to his new friend in his absence. I ALSO let 'slip' something huge to another girl in the group, who incidentally he had told me for ages didn't like me and I'd made problems, so ensuring we never spoke again (divide and conquer) I now think, because she has known him for years and knows there is something very wrong with him. Looking back, he cleverly manipulated us and the situation to make sure I never again went near her. Until she happened to be out on this night out and I told her something that made it VERY clear he had been back in my life. She was visibly shocked. I think she went back to him and confronted him to ask him wth he was playing at.  And that's how I became the Devil Incarnate in his eyes. And yet, the only other thing I said to anyone, all evening was... ."I still love him".

I was instructed to NOT talk to his friends. But I have done again since, and they've talked to me. And that's how I ended up being almost attacked on Christmas day, for a verbal onslaught and being given more orders not to talk to his friends.  I have disobeyed that order by the way, as much as possible.  

I truly feel for you having to work in this as well. You poor thing. I TOTALLY  understand what you mean about being back in school. I have already likened what mine is doing as being like a playground bully. Divide and conquer. If you want to be in my gang don't talk to her... .any of you. Pulling the hair of the girl he loves the most and making her cry. This entire experience has taken me right back to being 14 years old when my then so-called best friend successfully managed to make our whole friendship group give me the silent treatment for several months. I was almost suicidal and never found out the cause. All these years later, as an adult  she has tried to FB friend me hahahahahha. I think not. What she did to me affected me profoundly and I believe, shaped my life in many ways. I don't ever give HER any thought, but what he is doing to me now, or trying to do, is the same gut wrenching, heart breaking, frightening feeling. Except we're in our late 30s and this is someone I actually love.

I cannot begin to imagine what it must be like for you. No wonder your health has been compromised.
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HurtinNW
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« Reply #7 on: April 18, 2016, 10:49:21 AM »

I've been painted black as well, and my ex is an expert at playing the victim to our large group of mutual social friends. He is a very charming man who has cultivated a mask as the kindest, sweetest little boy-man you would ever meet. I know most our social friends wouldn't believe for a moment that in private he is abusive. I wouldn't have believed it either.

He is working overtime now to convince our numerous friends I am crazy, deranged, and was cruel to him. It's been very painful for me. This has been his pattern every time he raged and broke up with me. He immediately calls in the troops, crying on the shoulder of old friends, posting sad songs on social media, highlighting the lyrics where the man was hurt by a cruel woman, getting together with mutual friends and telling them all about me and how I broke his heart.

In past break-ups I would try to go out to theater and other art events. It's something we often did together. I cannot describe the pain of going to an event once after he had raged and broken up with me, and seeing him standing in a group of people, obviously comforting him while giving me eye daggers. I've had social friends call me in the past to tell me how much ex supposedly missed me, how he put me on a pedestal. One time I finally snapped, and said, "if that was a pedestal I'd sure hate to see the ground!" Another time I met mutual friends for lunch and they told me how sad and hurt my ex was. It is very hard to take the higher road but I am doing it. I am not going to lower myself into a he-said-she-said childish finger pointing session.

My ex has way more skills than I ever would have in the art of manipulating public opinion. He is very adept at playing the nice guy, because in his mind he was the nice guy. I know how good he is because for many years we knew of each other, and I was convinced of his mask as well.

The only people that have seen through this, that I can tell, are the few of us that have ever gotten close. Which is his sisters and me. Actually I am sure more astute people have as well.

It's been incredibly hard for me to handle this too. I am not someone who wants to show pain publicly, so I can see it looks like I am fine and he is not. I don't want people to feel sorry for me. No one ever found happiness through self-pity. So I am trying to carry on. But yes, it is so hard. I do have friends outside our arts community and I am trying to see them more.

I'm not sure how or when I should try and defend myself or correct the record. It bothers me that people I respect would believe I hurt my ex, but then I try to remember that eventually this will get old. He can go around acting like a hurt victim for so long, and people will want him to move on. I have a feeling he will cast this as the great loss of his life, and is already building a tragic story around it.

I am trying to remind myself that this is not the kind of person capable of an adult relationship. Even the people who are feeling sorry for him have to know that, at some level. They may feel sorry for him and believe whatever he says about me, but I think intuitively people understand they wouldn't want to be with someone who castigates and demonizes another. So that gives me comfort. I also hope that eventually time will tell. If I can heal and learn from this, I can go on to have a happy life. Eventually people will forget. They have other things to think about than my ex and his tale of woe.

Sending up support in keeping your head up high!   
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Stripey77
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« Reply #8 on: April 18, 2016, 11:08:54 AM »

Thank you, and right back at you.

My ex is very high functioning (and a functioning alcoholic if you ask me) intelligent and otherwise lucid. The most intelligent and interesting partner I've ever had, and I am a switched on chick myself. So of course, the intellectual connection was instant, and I suppose we each recognised that we had met our match, in many ways.

The reason I say this, my ex is not therefore, so stupid as to try to enlist to his cause each and every person who knows both of us. That would involved making something up, and getting them to believe it, and even care... .it would have to be something pretty substantial. And it would have to be substantiated, which he'd be unable to do.

Secondly... .I'm a nice lady! I'm not without my faults, who is? But I go out of my way to project happiness, kindness and friendship where ever I go, especially in our community where networking is everything and we all know each other. I help people where I can and try, as you do, to keep an even keel and a happy face on in public at all times. My pain is very private. It would take some serious slandering to try to turn all of those people against me... in fact, all I see happening at the moment is more and more people turning towards me and me making more friends. It's all happening organically and naturally, just by me being me.  In the much longer run, I honestly think that he is going to wind up looking ridiculous  JUST like the school bully left standing alone with just his sidekicks. How many social occasions, nights out etc. can there be when there is one prince of darkness scowling in the corner ignoring me... .whose friends are also my friends, and want to talk to me? What an exhausting waste of energy that must be.  My only hope is that one day... .he'll realise it and he'll crack. If he wanted to speak to me again I would welcome it with open arms, even if was just to say hello. We can dream.   But I stand by what I say, he is going to end up looking like a child with a silly little resentment against someone everyone else just wants to get on with.
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Stripey77
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« Reply #9 on: April 18, 2016, 11:15:38 AM »

BTW

Don't you find it all very strange that someone who has DELETED ME FROM HIS LIFE has kept me on Skype/messenger apps?  And is still subscribed to see our photos if he wanted to. It's not as if he's stupid and has forgotten that I was his contact on there, is it? We talked all the time on them.

This makes it hard for me to totally believe, deep deep down, that I am truly deleted, for life. Although I clearly am right now.

:'(
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WoundedBibi
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« Reply #10 on: April 18, 2016, 12:41:21 PM »

BTW

Don't you find it all very strange that someone who has DELETED ME FROM HIS LIFE has kept me on Skype/messenger apps?  And is still subscribed to see our photos if he wanted to. It's not as if he's stupid and has forgotten that I was his contact on there, is it? We talked all the time on them.

This makes it hard for me to totally believe, deep deep down, that I am truly deleted, for life. Although I clearly am right now.

:'(

I have not been deleted or blocked from Whatsapp either. Despite him painting me black, trying to destroy me because he hurts on the inside but also enjoying hurting me in the process. I think there is an element of NPD in him. If he 'quit' as he thinks, and I'm such a horrible person he needs to get some 60 people on my case to make my life h*ll why the h*ll does he leave this channel of possible communication open? Same as yours.

Perhaps at some point we will be contacted by our exes. I dread the day. I wouldn't have a clue what to do and would feel every emotion humanly possible times 100.

I mean after months of feeling strong and being sure I would just ignore or say something like 'bugger ye off' the last few weeks I have felt weak. Too much on my plate with my diagnosis and feeling the pressure of having to go back to work and his new job and now this LinkedIn stuff... I fell off my No Searching wagon last week, found a picture of him with a bloated face and damaged skin because of the nonstop boozing but with this oh so familiar soft sensitive vulnerable look and I almost caved. I had to remind myself of the things he did, picture the glance he threw at me when he wanted to punish me for asking a question that triggered him, a mixture of slyness, enjoyment, cunningness, 'let's see how you like this game', hate, pain. I had to remind myself it was the same face to stop myself from reaching out.

Because he looked vulnerable and damaged and as if he needed taking care of. I needed to remind myself he is a grown man who is very capable of looking after himself in a lot of other ways and it isn't in any way shape or form my responsibility if he drinks himself to death or gets Korsakov. It physically hurts when I think of the soft boyish look. So I try to think of the devilish distorted face that hissed at me that something was not to his liking. But that made me feel like a 6 year old about to get smacked by my mum. And thinking about that side of him physically hurts too.

I need to be able to walk soon. I need proper therapy from my psychologist not just her weekly calls to support me in my staying afloat.
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« Reply #11 on: April 18, 2016, 12:48:38 PM »

Thank you, and right back at you.

My ex is very high functioning (and a functioning alcoholic if you ask me) intelligent and otherwise lucid. The most intelligent and interesting partner I've ever had, and I am a switched on chick myself. So of course, the intellectual connection was instant, and I suppose we each recognised that we had met our match, in many ways.

The reason I say this, my ex is not therefore, so stupid as to try to enlist to his cause each and every person who knows both of us. That would involved making something up, and getting them to believe it, and even care... .it would have to be something pretty substantial. And it would have to be substantiated, which he'd be unable to do.

Secondly... .I'm a nice lady! I'm not without my faults, who is? But I go out of my way to project happiness, kindness and friendship where ever I go, especially in our community where networking is everything and we all know each other. I help people where I can and try, as you do, to keep an even keel and a happy face on in public at all times. My pain is very private. It would take some serious slandering to try to turn all of those people against me... in fact, all I see happening at the moment is more and more people turning towards me and me making more friends. It's all happening organically and naturally, just by me being me.  In the much longer run, I honestly think that he is going to wind up looking ridiculous  JUST like the school bully left standing alone with just his sidekicks. How many social occasions, nights out etc. can there be when there is one prince of darkness scowling in the corner ignoring me... .whose friends are also my friends, and want to talk to me? What an exhausting waste of energy that must be.  My only hope is that one day... .he'll realise it and he'll crack. If he wanted to speak to me again I would welcome it with open arms, even if was just to say hello. We can dream.   But I stand by what I say, he is going to end up looking like a child with a silly little resentment against someone everyone else just wants to get on with.

Well said! My ex is also careful not to try and smear me to people who know me personally, including members of his own family. These are all social friends.

And also, I have found that most people will be attracted to kindness and good cheer. At the same time I feel his social circle is being manipulated and is feeling sorry for him, that hasn't stopped many of them from continuing to be my friends. In the moment I think people will rally around him because he seems so sad. But once out of sight they still like me. I'm thinking of a time during a break up where some people he had introduced me to asked me out to dinner, and clearly made overtures of friendship.

I do a lot of good work in the community, and people do seem to genuinely like me, and respect me in warm ways, so thank you for reminding me of that.

Regarding deleting you: he's not deleting you, he is using you as the canvas in which he projects all his emotions. He can just easily decide next week you really were The One and try to recycle you.

WoundedBibi: I caught my ex making similar faces. Once I very gently confronted him about making me out to be a shrew, and he got the oddest smirk on his face, with a little guilty smile. It was like a mean little kid caught. Other times he has had a sly expression on his face. I think part of him knows exactly what he is doing, and that is very much like NPD. There is a calculated quality to it. For instance, he never once raged at me in front of social friends. In public he acted the part of adoring me beyond measure. It was only in private or someplace people weren't watching that he raged. To me that he could turn it on and off like that suggests something more than BPD. To go from that sweet little doe eyed, tender, biting his lips look to a distorted, hissing angry face the moment the audience wasn't there... .
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« Reply #12 on: April 18, 2016, 01:06:27 PM »

Exactly that, the secret sly look over the shoulder only I would see. The hissing in a dark corner where no one was watching.

The thing with work is, I've always tried to separate private and professional. You cannot just mix the two and go off boozing with subordinates. So to a degree I'm reserved. The people that worked for me love me to bits and are still contacting me asking if I'm able to go out yet, go for coffee. I went to a wedding of one of them in Greece when I could still walk well enough.

The others didn't know me well enough. Or we talked on breaks and they found me utterly amusing and loved my departmental emails. They seemed to genuinely like me. But he boozed with them, bought them drinks until his bank account was empty, hung around their necks and told them how he loved them, so I guess they liked him more. And there is this very strange almost magical magnetic thing about him. People are almost grateful he chooses them to be with. So the really funny and once you know her warm and genuine woman or the magical wizard that buys you booze so you can bask in his glory?

And of course I never campaigned. I was silent. So there was no one that said "hang on people, is this really true? Is he the wizard of Oz? Or a guy behind a curtain?"
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« Reply #13 on: April 18, 2016, 01:18:12 PM »

Stripey and everyone else painted black by your exes I feel for you all. My ex painted me black as well. I've been told by she herself that just thinking about me makes her angry, but my ex is the type to internalize most things. Even though you don't THINK your ex is feeling rage towards you it is very possible he is, because what I've read from my time on the BPD forums trying to understand the emotional dysregulation is not all of them are acting out. Some act in. My ex literally refuses to acknowledge me, but at this point that's normal as we had a long distance relationship. Even still, I managed to rile up feelings in her.

Honestly, the way I see it is it goes past the point of just being painted black. Plain and simple you're a trigger for him. You trigger whatever feelings it is he is trying to hide from. I trigger my ex a lot, just by the mere site of my name popping up. She would just rather not deal with me in any way, shape or form. After all, I'm to blame for her lying and cheating ways and seeing me reminds her that she isn't as good of a person as she portrays herself to be. Imagine someone pretending to be this knight in shining armor, but in reality they are not. Still, they don't want anyone to know. The best thing to do is to not take it personal. It's how they cope, it's how they have always coped and survived life and emotional turmoil. My ex once told me she left her home for a couple years and never looked back. Never thought about her mom or anything. It's how they function. If it makes you feel any better, just take it as you got under his skin SO much that the mere sight or mention of you causes him distress. That's why he does what he does.
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« Reply #14 on: April 18, 2016, 01:21:05 PM »

Exactly that, the secret sly look over the shoulder only I would see. The hissing in a dark corner where no one was watching.

The thing with work is, I've always tried to separate private and professional. You cannot just mix the two and go off boozing with subordinates. So to a degree I'm reserved. The people that worked for me love me to bits and are still contacting me asking if I'm able to go out yet, go for coffee. I went to a wedding of one of them in Greece when I could still walk well enough.

The others didn't know me well enough. Or we talked on breaks and they found me utterly amusing and loved my departmental emails. They seemed to genuinely like me. But he boozed with them, bought them drinks until his bank account was empty, hung around their necks and told them how he loved them, so I guess they liked him more. And there is this very strange almost magical magnetic thing about him. People are almost grateful he chooses them to be with. So the really funny and once you know her warm and genuine woman or the magical wizard that buys you booze so you can bask in his glory?

And of course I never campaigned. I was silent. So there was no one that said "hang on people, is this really true? Is he the wizard of Oz? Or a guy behind a curtain?"

I'm glad you brought up the charisma piece. My ex has that in spades. It isn't just superficial charm. I think he lets enough of that real child in there show that people just respond to him. I know I did. He is profoundly magnetic. People love to be around him when he is feeling good, and that is a strong enough drug that they will hang around him when he is being self-pitying too.

I'm more like you. I'm very genuine, kind, compassionate and real. I have friends that go back for decades. I have people who connect with me about my novel, which is also very authentic and compassionate. I have learned social graces, but I am not someone who is naturally a politician. My ex is like a politician. He reminds me of Bill Clinton, in some ways: just this guy who others flock to, funny, artistic, and people will shrug off evidence of his sins because he is so darn likeable.

I've had people on the outside say, hey, look, this guy is unemployed, irresponsible, spoiled and entitled, what do you see in him? If they spent an hour with him they would see. He's the kind of person where you actually forget the truth about his situation because of the charisma.

I refuse to campaign as well. I am going with my gut, and my gut says to take the path of integrity.

Also, as I've said, I think eventually for a NPD it falls apart. There comes a time when their social charm and good looks no longer are enough to protect them from their behaviors. That is happening with my ex. It is sad to watch from a distance because he is totally blind to the absolute mess he is making of his life. His charm is being swallowed by bitterness. If he continues this path his old age will be an unhappy time indeed.



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« Reply #15 on: April 18, 2016, 01:33:32 PM »

One of the most popular sayings on this website is "pwBPD are consistently inconsistent".  This is one thing (among many) that I try to keep foremost in my mind whenever thinking about what makes her "tick".

I sent my ex a good-bye text (one that was very tactful and constructive) at the end of December indicating that I realized that it was too painful for her to keep me in her life (we had parted back in June '15).  Our communication had dwindled over time to where it was only about her (she didn't even respond to a "Have a Merry Xmas" text).  I was certainly painted blacker than black after this.

The only tie between us is that our high-school daughters are best friends.  Recently my daughter had mentioned that she feels that my ex has become almost rude to her.  So as much as I didn't want to reach out I felt compelled to do so and sent her something along with a note.  Nothing--and that was a month ago.  Now mind you---this is now about our daughters, not us.  

What I'm trying to say is:

---As WB said earlier "we can only control ourselves".  2 1/2 months of NC has proven that to me.

---We need to remember that we're dealing with toddlers emotionally.  As much as we would hope that they would respond as adults they simply don't have the ability to do so.

---Losing control for pwBPD can be a sentence worse than death for some of them and we have done just that by not responding to their immature behavior.

I'll continue to be painted black until I'm not. The takeaway should be that none of us should feel as though we can't live our own everyday lives due to what our exes may or may not do.  Our happiness depends on us.

LF

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« Reply #16 on: April 18, 2016, 01:59:03 PM »

One of the most popular sayings on this website is "pwBPD are consistently inconsistent".  This is one thing (among many) that I try to keep foremost in my mind whenever thinking about what makes her "tick".

I sent my ex a good-bye text (one that was very tactful and constructive) at the end of December indicating that I realized that it was too painful for her to keep me in her life (we had parted back in June '15).  Our communication had dwindled over time to where it was only about her (she didn't even respond to a "Have a Merry Xmas" text).  I was certainly painted blacker than black after this.

The only tie between us is that our high-school daughters are best friends.  Recently my daughter had mentioned that she feels that my ex has become almost rude to her.  So as much as I didn't want to reach out I felt compelled to do so and sent her something along with a note.  Nothing--and that was a month ago.  Now mind you---this is now about our daughters, not us. 

What I'm trying to say is:

---As WB said earlier "we can only control ourselves".  2 1/2 months of NC has proven that to me.

---We need to remember that we're dealing with toddlers emotionally.  As much as we would hope that they would respond as adults they simply don't have the ability to do so.

---Losing control for pwBPD can be a sentence worse than death for some of them and we have done just that by not responding to their immature behavior.

I'll continue to be painted black until I'm not. The takeaway should be that none of us should feel as though we can't live our own everyday lives due to what our exes may or may not do.  Our happiness depends on us.

LF

You are right. But even in knowing I can only control myself I under stress still am not able to control myself. I've been feeling nauseous all day.

Most of the group that followed the wizard of Oz are just that, simple followers. Once out of his basking glory they will at some point forget. Perhaps seeing me again for the first time might trigger a memory or two but that's fine. The real flying monkeys are my issue. I know rationally they cannot do anything to me. What are they going to do? Kill me? No. But they might as well put a gun to my head because the level of panic having to be near them is the same for me.

That's why something 'simple' as a LinkedIn invite makes me freak out. He has enjoyed hurting me to a degree. His sister and he are so close he says he loves her so much it is almost incestuous. Basically I guess she is his perfect woman. So in my view it is logical I wonder why the h*ll his sister has sent me a LinkedIn invite yesterday. I would be nuts not to think what's behind this after the games I've been subjected to. Even is she was not involved in those. Perhaps he has calmed down and has given her permission to invite me, to let her know I have been forgiven. There is still a blog out there that says I have an empty heart, cold eyes and he wanted to give me the light but I wanted too much and how will he ever heal his abandoned heart. At this point I would love to put in the vomiting emoji but it's gone...

Oh well, I might be nauseous and freaking out and I might have fallen off my No Searching wagon last week but at least I have not reached out and I'm back on the NS wagon.

The day I go back to work for the first time I will be throwing up though. And taking you along to get me through it all...
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« Reply #17 on: April 18, 2016, 02:16:28 PM »

Honestly, the way I see it is it goes past the point of just being painted black. Plain and simple you're a trigger for him. You trigger whatever feelings it is he is trying to hide from. I trigger my ex a lot, just by the mere site of my name popping up. She would just rather not deal with me in any way, shape or form. After all, I'm to blame for her lying and cheating ways and seeing me reminds her that she isn't as good of a person as she portrays herself to be. Imagine someone pretending to be this knight in shining armor, but in reality they are not. Still, they don't want anyone to know. The best thing to do is to not take it personal. It's how they cope, it's how they have always coped and survived life and emotional turmoil. My ex once told me she left her home for a couple years and never looked back. Never thought about her mom or anything. It's how they function. If it makes you feel any better, just take it as you got under his skin SO much that the mere sight or mention of you causes him distress. That's why he does what he does.

5tarla,

Great post---very true and spot on.  I have read similar posts on various pwBPD websites.  Members will describe relationships that were more like short-term or "bridge to the next relationship" encounters which for the most part were forgettable.  In their opinions, the memorable and significant relationships were the most painful which helps explain the "blacker than black" most of us have felt.  I'll never doubt that I meant a lot to my ex---until I didn't.

My ex connected with someone new within days of us parting (a connection that was made even more difficult because she spent the summer in a completely different state).  I was initially stunned but then recognized that her emotional pain was so raw that anyone/anybody would become her next "encounter".  There was little compatibility (he was 12 years older, already a grandfather and it was an LDR) and it lasted about 4 months.  This was followed by a  local "encounter" that lasted 3 months.  Again same theme---little compatibility but she needed someone to ease the emotional pain.

Our emotional pain is episodic and will eventually fade over time.  Unfortunately theirs is constant and perpetual.

LF

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« Reply #18 on: April 18, 2016, 02:19:41 PM »

Thank you, one and all.

Firstly, the reason I don't believe he is raging against me, as I said in an earlier post, is the look I've seen on his face when I've caught him looking at me. It's definitely not anger, and I do know what he looks like when he's not in a good mood. This wasn't it.  I most certainly agree that I trigger something deep in him; I think he simply does not know what to do with himself when he sees me. As I said, someone who loved him very, very deeply -  and I truly believe that he fell in love with me as well, as much as someone with BPD can - has walked away, in effect. I did not want to walk away from him in any way whatsoever. I was prepared to stick by him had he confided in me whatever it was he was trying to tell me. But he essentially did a complete U-turn, and went overnight from telling me he needed me and he hoped I could heal him, to pushing me away as hard as he could. So I left. He was obviously incandescent when I spoke to his new friend - at her instigation, btw - because basically, he got rumbled. It transpired that he'd been running around after her being the most amazing friend the world has ever known... .whilst building up to getting back together with me. Why he needed to get back together with me when he had a new friend in his life, I will never  know.  I truly think, even months later that even though they are still hanging around together a lot as thick as thieves, they really are just friends... new best friends. He has a female best friend from his country who left here at around the same time as all of this, and I think this girl has stepped in as her replacement. My replacement, so far, appears to be beer. Beer, beer, beer, beer and more beer.   But just friends or not, his behaviour was duplicitous to the extreme, and he must have felt so very out of control when I found all of this out from her - because he was out of the country. In no way shape or form had he ever wanted me to spend an evening out drinking with this girl and find these things out-  it just happened.  I also gleaned by looking through their FB pages that the dates he'd missed or delayed with me... .he'd been getting smashed with her. Absolutely smashed. He'd already broken up with me again for the 2nd time at that point just a few days before I spent the evening with this girl, and told me that it was 'for the best' for us not to talk to each other. So he had zero right to tell me who I can and can't talk to.  He knows very well what he's done, he knows it was wrong, and I can only guess that guilt/shame or something similar led him to lash out on the one person he had wronged so horribly - me! The same person who forgave him and welcomed him back with open arms after he told me he didn't deserve me after the way he treated me, and gave him a 2nd chance. He breaks up with me again, and then blames ME when his new friend comes and tells me everything I wasn't supposed to know. Obviously, he can't tell her not to talk to someone because that would expose him as being a control freak, yet he thought nothing of stepping up to me, his ex, to tell me at some length who I may and may not talk to, and why did I have to talk to her? etc. etc.


Anyway I digress. I am just trying to explain the events that led to me being painted black. Personally, I do not dread the day he talks to me, which practically everyone thinks he will do... .one day. I crave it. I would control the conversation, if it ever happens. I would not allow a recycle, despite the fact I still feel exactly as I always have for him. I know he is very damaged. But right now, the only reason my heart is not in my boots is because I am holding it up by sheer willpower. It feels like I mentally have to squeeze it together all of the time to stop the pieces falling apart again. When I think about how much I miss him, it hurts. I occasionally still cry about it on a bad day. I want him to talk to me so very badly, to burst that bubble, to make my heart heal somewhat... .and so on. I just want to be on friendly terms, as I have said. Even though it would still hurt not to be with him anymore, it would have to hurt less than this sheer living hell.

I agree with you 5taria. I trigger him. I must really, really really get under his skin for him to come home and block me on something that I would have had no way of knowing he did other than I happened to look. And that was just because he saw me... .as I said, I made no attempts to contact him after the  Christmas day incident, yet this was just the other week.

I have just walked around town, bold as you like, making sure I looked nice of course... .not too nice, just nice Smiling (click to insert in post) Right around 'his' neighbourhood, the supermarket, his local bars. Seeing as they are just minutes from my house too I have every right to be seen there. Unfortunately I didn't see him to give him a glimpse of me, but it will happen. To be able to even do this, and I am doing it more, is progress for me.

Thank you once again all. I can't resonate with the making faces part so much... .I don't think my ex is that consciously manipulative or wearing many different masks. I do think he's in turmoil and the drink is what seems to make it all so much better... .for a while.  As I say, he is extremely intelligent and highly functioning. Saddest of all is that as I think I've illustrated on here, he seems to know very very well that something is wrong with him, gravely wrong. But he doesn't know what it is. He is really to be pitied... .he threw away the love of a good woman.
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« Reply #19 on: April 18, 2016, 02:21:20 PM »



Learning Fast - thank you, you're not the only one to say that, and it does make me feel better. I'm glad I'm under his skin, it means I meant something to him, and hey, he's under mine, so good. Thank you for your insight.

Regarding deleting you: he's not deleting you, he is using you as the canvas in which he projects all his emotions. He can just easily decide next week you really were The One and try to recycle you.


Hurtin-


Thank you. Right now, I feel... .80% deleted. If that makes any sense at all.

BTW I should say, I have seen my ex give both men and women to the silent treatment or at least, trying to avoid them, and in all instances, I've seen him talk to them in the end anyway. It just doesn't feel like I'll be one of them, I think because I got the closest. He met his match at every level. Even on the day he ranted at me, he told me he knows I am an intelligent person. He knows he met his equal and he's realised he can't control me. Most staggering of all of these people was the girlfriend he had before me, who he said he realised he didn't love (and this may well be true) I know from his and other's accounts that she suffered horribly when he broke up with her - well I can understand that at least. But she was never deleted or blocked or anything of the sort, he just overnight stopped communicating with her after the breakup, from what I can tell. When he and I were in the blissful early stages of our relationship, we were all at the same party in a bar one night. I recognised her from FB, and caught her looking at us. Again understandable, poor girl. He practically hid behind me so as not to be seen, or at least make eye contact. He certainly didn't acknowledge her, and he didn't know that I knew who she was. So she was at the receiving end of what I went on to receive months later, except she wasn't painted black I don't think. I genuinely do not believe she got as close to him as I did. It is possible that he frightened himself with how he felt about me. Several people have commented to me these last months that for him to be acting as he is toward me, he still loves me but that he's put it in a box. For sure, his feelings are still invested, because if he were indifferent toward me he certainly wouldn't be finding new ways to lash out.

So, roll on a few months to the time when he had broken up with me the 2nd time and was again not talking to me because it was 'for the best'. Before he 'deleted me from his life'. Imagine my surprise to see him tagged in a photograph at the birthday party of... .can you guess? Drumroll please... .

That's right. The ex before me.

The one he hid behind me to avoid talking to. It didn't look remotely romantic, just friendly, but nonetheless, there he was. Staggering.

He is as I say UNdiagnosed, but if this isn't BPD, then I'd like to know what is!  
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« Reply #20 on: April 18, 2016, 02:34:04 PM »

We make a lovely set of triggers, don't we  ?

I'm too tired to typ much. Just handing out hugs for now to all the ones that are triggers here

       
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« Reply #21 on: April 18, 2016, 02:45:59 PM »

Yeah. I've read some BPD state their love doesn't go away, they just don't feel it anymore because it's buried very, very deep, or something to that effect. I can also relate to the shame and guilt your ex expresses. Honestly, my ex cracked during our last conversation together and it was a lot of her emotions being inconsistent. She doesn't think she was good enough for me, and she used to tell me that after she cheated on me. Mind you, I didn't know at the time, but it was around that time that she began telling me I was too good for her, she was afraid to hurt me, etc. She doesn't even visit the writing site we met on anymore, and she CLAIMS it's not because of me, but I'm pretty sure it is. Why would you leave something you're passionate about? :/
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« Reply #22 on: April 18, 2016, 03:10:58 PM »

 :'(

Sigh... .there really are some depressing similarities here, aren't there? It was the 'are you sure?' re: me still loving him that really got me. At no point did I ever, ever walk away, leave him, make myself unavailable to him, and yet there he was asking me if I was sure I still loved him. Surely it should have been me asking that question? Well in fact I did the second time he made moves towards me, and his answer? "Always".  Then a few weeks later he threw me away again.
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« Reply #23 on: April 18, 2016, 03:27:32 PM »

:'(

Sigh... .there really are some depressing similarities here, aren't there? It was the 'are you sure?' re: me still loving him that really got me. At no point did I ever, ever walk away, leave him, make myself unavailable to him, and yet there he was asking me if I was sure I still loved him. Surely it should have been me asking that question? Well in fact I did the second time he made moves towards me, and his answer? "Always".  Then a few weeks later he threw me away again.

They did/do love us. Just not enough to do the work on themselves.

Not that's not fair. There are many moments they are also not 'lucid', not self reflective enough to see they even have an issue.

There is kind of a confession on my ex's blog too. One he never expressed to me as once he had me he went into his avoidance attachment style and stopped communicating on many levels. He says something along the lines of admitting his soul is sometimes filled with mist. Your ex was a lot clearer. He KNOWS he is damaged although he calls it brain damaged. Maybe you should look at it from a different point of view. Maybe he loved you enough to realize he would hurt you and you would not be able to fix his damage so he pushed you away to protect you from worse.

Could look at it from a different point of view. Not should...
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« Reply #24 on: April 18, 2016, 03:49:29 PM »

Goodness---it's like we all dated iterations of the same person! A couple of observations about my ex:

----She several times commented that she was "vulnerable", "sensitive" and "self-centered".  These moments of clarity were infrequent and short-lived and any attempt on my part to probe any deeper was met with "I'm fine".  She's mid 40s and has been afflicted long enough to know that something's not right.  Sadly she's unwilling to face her own demons.

---After she initially disappeared after about 1 yr together (any before several recycles) she would describe our relationship as "locked in a vault in her mind".  This was prior to my knowledge of BPD so my thought was What the heck?  Now I know exactly what she meant.

---She never believed that I loved her.  I can't count how many times I told her so and yet she just couldn't process the fact that it was true.  Even one of our last times together I commented that she never believed that I loved her.  Her response was "Nope, never believed it".

---Finally, when we parted she looked at me and said "I just don't know what I'm going to do because I'm so in love with you".  She connected with my replacement 6 days later.

On another note, you'll find this site to be invaluable to your long-term mental and physical health.  There is SO much more that I now know about BPD that has helped frame my ex's behavior that I'd be completely lost otherwise.

LF


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« Reply #25 on: April 18, 2016, 03:59:43 PM »

I want to reply to this thread with my own story but I feel totally afraid to. I can't tell it without it being completely immediately identifiable to him, or to another party involved.
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« Reply #26 on: April 18, 2016, 04:13:59 PM »

Goodness---it's like we all dated iterations of the same person! A couple of observations about my ex:

----She several times commented that she was "vulnerable", "sensitive" and "self-centered".  These moments of clarity were infrequent and short-lived and any attempt on my part to probe any deeper was met with "I'm fine".  She's mid 40s and has been afflicted long enough to know that something's not right.  Sadly she's unwilling to face her own demons.

---After she initially disappeared after about 1 yr together (any before several recycles) she would describe our relationship as "locked in a vault in her mind".  This was prior to my knowledge of BPD so my thought was What the heck?  Now I know exactly what she meant.

---She never believed that I loved her.  I can't count how many times I told her so and yet she just couldn't process the fact that it was true.  Even one of our last times together I commented that she never believed that I loved her.  Her response was "Nope, never believed it".

---Finally, when we parted she looked at me and said "I just don't know what I'm going to do because I'm so in love with you".  She connected with my replacement 6 days later.

On another note, you'll find this site to be invaluable to your long-term mental and physical health.  There is SO much more that I now know about BPD that has helped frame my ex's behavior that I'd be completely lost otherwise.

LF

I guess we did...

There was an attempt at a recycle or perhaps to have control over me, where he kissed me on Friday night and said he would see me on Saturday night. Not knowing apparently I was not invited to the party he was invited to as the partythrower was someone I avoided as the plague (not genuine, mean, cold, loved to gossip, basically like all his friends and as it turned out him). At the party he was told not to be with me. Whether it was the flying monkeys told him I was horrible or made him unhappy doesn't matter, as I understand this was the message. Whether they made him change his mind or they just reinforced him doesn't matter either, he didn't have the right character anyway. At the time I knew none of this and I was at work, at a pub and later at home thinking about this amazing kiss. I realized I was still in love. Even though I had walked away the first time I sent him a message on Sunday that I was still in love but that I wanted a different type of relationship this time round of there was to be a this time round. In a rare moment of clarity he let me know he could never be in a relationship. And that he should not confuse me by his inner [certain nationality]. Followed by that I didn't know what love was anyway and explaining it to me was pointless. And that it now was time to go to sleep. Cu.

He was up all night as far as I could tell from his Whatsapp logins and called in sick the next day.

Two days later he was kissed by another girl and told a colleague it was time to get himself a girlfriend. Not that he did at that time. He might have tried later but with his mental, emotional and sexual issues actual girlfriends are not that easy to find and/or don't stick around.

I'm very up & down right now in my emotions and how I feel about it all and without this site I would be utterly lost.
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« Reply #27 on: April 18, 2016, 04:15:09 PM »

Hi Bibi - Yes, even though he dismissed it as 'a joke'  who the hell jokes that they are brain damaged? And then immediately says they can't explain it even to themselves. I have most definitely had the thought that in a strange way he has done this to protect me. The first time he broke up with me and went silent on me, when I saw him we had a long discussion (which he walked out of) and that was the first time he said to me that his advice to me was to forget him and hate him. I was dismayed to hear this. The love of my life telling me to hate him. The man who had talked to me all day every day for months and wanted to see me as much as possible.  Remember the Michael Jackson Thriller video when he's a werewolf and realises he's about to transform... .and shouts at his date to go away for her sake? There are parallels for sure. Although my ex never went so far as to turn into a werewolf, to the best of my knowledge.  Smiling (click to insert in post)

6 weeks or so later, he was back in my life, saying he realised he'd lost something important. But as I say, he is the most intelligent partner I've ever had. I bet you I'm also his, and maybe he knew that I was on to him and wasn't going to let it go once he'd alluded to his 'injury'. It wasn't a a joke. It's also not a coincidence that just days later, I found myself back on the receiving end of the silent treatment and in limbo.


When I first implored him not for us to be broken up (the first time he left me) he told me that he was missing me but that he thought he'd made the right decision. He then said something I will never forget. He told me he didn't want to 'cheat' me (he meant mislead me/cheat me of my time, not cheat on me) and that he would rather walk around alone than do this to me again in a few months. (Unlike others on these boards, it seems that my ex IS capable of being alone, so long as he at least has special friends around him to plug the gap. He is also quite happy to sit alone and get smashed, of course. His constant companion is alcohol. His friends are his world.) Now, quite aside from the fact that that is exactly what happened anyway, he made it sound as if this was an inevitable chain of events, out of his control. That he would be leaving me anyway later down the line, as if he couldn't help himself. So with that in mind, there is every chance he was trying to spare me from that. He was asking me to hate him and forget him. I have told him every time, how am I supposed to hate someone I love? It's impossible. I still don't hate him. Of course, he has pushed me away so hard now, I have no contact with him, so everything he said has become a self fulfilling prophecy. I suppose to him it looks as though he has succeeded in making me hate him and forget him, because I never ever contact him and I walk right past him as he does me. So, mission accomplished? Or just confirmation that I was going to leave him in the end anyway? It's not what I ever wanted, either way.

BTW way - 5teria- it was you who initially made the comments about me getting under his skin  and they were re-quoted. Thank you for your input as well, I appreciate it and agree wholeheartedly.

What a sad state of affairs this is. I actually feel sorry for him, really I do. Even though he has treated me utterly appallingly and I feel more sorry for me. I have to keep reminding myself that he has lost out as well.

BTW (2) Some of you have mentioned your exes' charisma, making up for what they lack in employment etc. It's interesting, my ex is as I say, co owner of a local business.  He works his socks off, so I can't relate to that - the charisma part I certainly can.  But he also parties hard and is by far, far and away the messiest person I have ever met in my life. When I went to his house on my birthday I was dismayed to see that his usually terribly messy house was in the very worst state I have ever seen it. We had both returned from respective holidays about 3 weeks before... .his suitcase was still strewn all over the house. Every single spare inch of surface area was covered in stuff. Everything. It was jaw dropping... .and saddening at the same time. What do they say about tidy houses/tidy minds?  May I remind you, this is not a student home but that of a 36 year old. Similarly, when drinking... he gets himself SO drunk... I've seen photos of him passed out in his food (I'm not joking) which he showed me after missing a date with me.  He did at least apologise. And another with drink all over his shirt, and a glazed look in his eye. He told ME to drink less over Christmas. The drinker is him. My friend came to visit me when he wasn't talking to me last  year and actually ended up sitting in close proximity to him in a bar. Her shocked remark to me was that he looked like a tramp... .and he did. My ex is extremely beautiful. And yet this for both his own, and his home's, appearance. I am sure this is an outward sign of his inner turmoil... .cos it ain't normal, that's for sure.  I guess these are the things his charisma make up for.
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« Reply #28 on: April 18, 2016, 04:19:58 PM »

Semantics - if you want to tell us please do. Everything I have said makes my story completely identifiable, but I think the chances of him being on here reading this are zero.  I'm sure the same must apply to you?
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« Reply #29 on: April 18, 2016, 04:22:37 PM »

Totally identifiable too. Slightly scared, yes. But what is my ex going to do? Tell people I write here? Then his secret is out...
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« Reply #30 on: April 18, 2016, 04:31:16 PM »

You're welcome, stripey. I just take it as if I wasn't able to get under my exes skin like that, then she obviously never cared at all about me. They always say the opposite of love is not hate, but indifference. My ex refuses to ever own up to anything she did to MY face, but her blog she called herself an 'f' up and took the blame for our break-up. Isn't that interesting?
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« Reply #31 on: April 18, 2016, 04:42:30 PM »

Hi Bibi - Yes, even though he dismissed it as 'a joke'  who the hell jokes that they are brain damaged? And then immediately says they can't explain it even to themselves. I have most definitely had the thought that in a strange way he has done this to protect me. The first time he broke up with me and went silent on me, when I saw him we had a long discussion (which he walked out of) and that was the first time he said to me that his advice to me was to forget him and hate him. I was dismayed to hear this. The love of my life telling me to hate him. The man who had talked to me all day every day for months and wanted to see me as much as possible.  Remember the Michael Jackson Thriller video when he's a werewolf and realises he's about to transform... .and shouts at his date to go away for her sake? There are parallels for sure. Although my ex never went so far as to turn into a werewolf, to the best of my knowledge.  Smiling (click to insert in post)

6 weeks or so later, he was back in my life, saying he realised he'd lost something important. But as I say, he is the most intelligent partner I've ever had. I bet you I'm also his, and maybe he knew that I was on to him and wasn't going to let it go once he'd alluded to his 'injury'. It wasn't a a joke. It's also not a coincidence that just days later, I found myself back on the receiving end of the silent treatment and in limbo.


When I first implored him not for us to be broken up (the first time he left me) he told me that he was missing me but that he thought he'd made the right decision. He then said something I will never forget. He told me he didn't want to 'cheat' me (he meant mislead me/cheat me of my time, not cheat on me) and that he would rather walk around alone than do this to me again in a few months. (Unlike others on these boards, it seems that my ex IS capable of being alone, so long as he at least has special friends around him to plug the gap. He is also quite happy to sit alone and get smashed, of course. His constant companion is alcohol. His friends are his world.) Now, quite aside from the fact that that is exactly what happened anyway, he made it sound as if this was an inevitable chain of events, out of his control. That he would be leaving me anyway later down the line, as if he couldn't help himself. So with that in mind, there is every chance he was trying to spare me from that. He was asking me to hate him and forget him. I have told him every time, how am I supposed to hate someone I love? It's impossible. I still don't hate him. Of course, he has pushed me away so hard now, I have no contact with him, so everything he said has become a self fulfilling prophecy. I suppose to him it looks as though he has succeeded in making me hate him and forget him, because I never ever contact him and I walk right past him as he does me. So, mission accomplished? Or just confirmation that I was going to leave him in the end anyway? It's not what I ever wanted, either way.

BTW way - 5teria- it was you who initially made the comments about me getting under his skin  and they were re-quoted. Thank you for your input as well, I appreciate it and agree wholeheartedly.

What a sad state of affairs this is. I actually feel sorry for him, really I do. Even though he has treated me utterly appallingly and I feel more sorry for me. I have to keep reminding myself that he has lost out as well.

BTW (2) Some of you have mentioned your exes' charisma, making up for what they lack in employment etc. It's interesting, my ex is as I say, co owner of a local business.  He works his socks off, so I can't relate to that - the charisma part I certainly can.  But he also parties hard and is by far, far and away the messiest person I have ever met in my life. When I went to his house on my birthday I was dismayed to see that his usually terribly messy house was in the very worst state I have ever seen it. We had both returned from respective holidays about 3 weeks before... .his suitcase was still strewn all over the house. Every single spare inch of surface area was covered in stuff. Everything. It was jaw dropping... .and saddening at the same time. What do they say about tidy houses/tidy minds?  May I remind you, this is not a student home but that of a 36 year old. Similarly, when drinking... he gets himself SO drunk... I've seen photos of him passed out in his food (I'm not joking) which he showed me after missing a date with me.  He did at least apologise. And another with drink all over his shirt, and a glazed look in his eye. He told ME to drink less over Christmas. The drinker is him. My friend came to visit me when he wasn't talking to me last  year and actually ended up sitting in close proximity to him in a bar. Her shocked remark to me was that he looked like a tramp... .and he did. My ex is extremely beautiful. And yet this for both his own, and his home's, appearance. I am sure this is an outward sign of his inner turmoil... .cos it ain't normal, that's for sure.  I guess these are the things his charisma make up for.

Oh yes, smartest guy so far. I like smart guys. But he is really smart. I was his smartest girl too. That I pointed something out about his behaviour at work early on annoyed him but when management later on pointed out exactly the same he was baffled, mumbled something about having me as his coach but was also more annoyed at the same time. Lacking in EQ...

Always flirting, sometimes to an embarrassing level, because it makes him feel alive I think and it stirs up at last something in the nether regions. But never taking any of them home of course... A woman that reacts too much to flirting is a wh anyway.

Cannot be alone alone unless in a particular mood. But does go out alone so he is among people and then talks to anybody as he makes friends very easily (magnetism) and has a weird idea about friendship anyway. And his friends are his life too. Although he might have swapped circles now. As long as there is alcohol. Enough that he can fall over. Or that the staff refuses to serve him any longer. They then call him a taxi and he sometimes goes home. Other times he pretends to, goes somewhere they sell South American powder so he can dust the inside of his nose and then he can drink more.

He was gorgeous. Going out with him could be annoying. Always women around commenting on how gorgeous he looked. Part of why everybody believes what he says. Beautiful people can't be the bad guys. But he has ruined his skin now... He might have pulled himself together since Christmas but the skin damage is permanent.

Your werewolf made me laugh  Smiling (click to insert in post)

Do you know the tv licensing ad from the BBC All at once? Always makes me laughs because it's SO BPD in a way Smiling (click to insert in post)  https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=W_fwUmvpAuk

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« Reply #32 on: April 18, 2016, 04:47:16 PM »

Very! I can't see that happening to me in a million years, things are so bad now.

Although of course, the same person who walked out on me mid conversation telling me the decision was made and that I should forget him, was telling me weeks later that he didn't deserve me because of how he'd treated me,  as I say. Anything is possible. The one thing that is utterly predictable about our situations is that they are unpredictable.

I can't believe that anyone could actually maintain this level of 'hatred' for ever but perhaps he can. I haven't seen him do this to this extent to anyone else, so it's hard to know what to think. Other than I must have really meant something to him.

I did know when he was building up to tell me for the first time that he loved me... .the week before he had a strange look on his face and he was very, very quiet. He couldn't stop kissing me. I kept thinking, he is either going to tell me he loves me, or break up with me.  I actually thought at several points that he was going to cry. There had been an incident between me, him and his friends, but I'll save that for another day. The next weekend, he told me he loved me.

On another occasion, I gave him a gift I had entirely hand crafted and customised for him. Again, I actually thought for a second he was going to cry. He didn't but he was clearly overwhelmed. There are most definitely feelings there, that's for sure.  :'(
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« Reply #33 on: April 18, 2016, 04:51:00 PM »

You're welcome, stripey. I just take it as if I wasn't able to get under my exes skin like that, then she obviously never cared at all about me. They always say the opposite of love is not hate, but indifference. My ex refuses to ever own up to anything she did to MY face, but her blog she called herself an 'f' up and took the blame for our break-up. Isn't that interesting?

True.

Sometimes those little things make me doubt the BPD. Like writing about me on his blog in December while the last time we ever spoke on a personal level was in May and we broke up round about now. 8 months later. He hasn't seen me since July. Out of sight should be out of mind. But for him apparently not. Granted a lot of crap happened inbetween that might have made him focus anger on me that had nothing to do with me. But still. Plus he added this tearjerker song about a lover that wants too much. Drama queen.

Also he never cried, begged, said he was sorry, threatened to hurt himself or any of those BPD traits. The rest fits like a glove though.
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« Reply #34 on: April 18, 2016, 04:55:48 PM »

You're welcome, stripey. I just take it as if I wasn't able to get under my exes skin like that, then she obviously never cared at all about me. They always say the opposite of love is not hate, but indifference. My ex refuses to ever own up to anything she did to MY face, but her blog she called herself an 'f' up and took the blame for our break-up. Isn't that interesting?

True.

Sometimes those little things make me doubt the BPD. Like writing about me on his blog in December while the last time we ever spoke on a personal level was in May and we broke up round about now. 8 months later. He hasn't seen me since July. Out of sight should be out of mind. But for him apparently not. Granted a lot of crap happened inbetween that might have made him focus anger on me that had nothing to do with me. But still. Plus he added this tearjerker song about a lover that wants too much. Drama queen.

Also he never cried, begged, said he was sorry, threatened to hurt himself or any of those BPD traits. The rest fits like a glove though.

Tbh, I frequent the other forums about BPD and the one for people with BPD and they very rarely talk about doing those things you listed? I think it has a lot to do with if in their eyes you have made a slight against them, so of course if we have - as in our exes eyes we have - they won't beg for us back, cry, or anything. It also depends I think as well on if they have a replacement lined up already on how they respond to it. My ex is very much a quiet borderline, but I think she is somewhat self aware that she isn't like nons, and also she has learned to internalize her anger when it comes to relationships. When I confronted her I guess I ripped the band aid off of decade old wounds and she took it all out on me.
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« Reply #35 on: April 18, 2016, 05:18:17 PM »

I think the point is, as with all mental/emotional disorders, there is a spectrum, isn't there? I understand that there are low functioning BPDs who wouldn't be able to hide it from anyone - in no way would mine fit into that category. If I described everything I've told all of you to some our mutual friends, I wonder if they would even recognise the person I am talking about. I am totally sure that the new best friend is utterly oblivious - all she thinks is that she met a knight in shining armour who happens to party too much. Bizarre if you ask me that she never questioned the amount of effort he went to for her, a person he had literally just befriended, but maybe she was in great need of that friendship at the time and was just grateful for the kindness. When I met my ex, I was healing from a previous (normal) breakup which had truly broken my heart, albeit in a totally different way. THAT ex and I are still very much friends, there was no animosity just profound sadness. I sometimes think that I was ripe for the plucking... .in need of love, physical affection and affirmation... .and hey presto, along it came x 100.  But I highly doubt that those other friends and acquaintances could possibly know what really lies beneath. He is a kind friend who 'does' for people - he did for me. But they are not close to him on the level I was, so they were fortunate to not have been exposed to the truth.  I am really very jealous of the new friend, because she gets all the very best qualities of him, his time and his friendship, and because they are friends, she won't get exposed to the other side. He values his friendships too much. So in essence, she is his girlfriend, without being his girlfriend, and gets to spend all that quality time with him with none of the drama. It sucks and it really f*cking hurts.

In no way does he 'tick the box' for all of the listed BPD traits, no way. Nonetheless, I am quite sure that that is what's at play here, for all the reasons I've told you. Sometimes the behaviour has been so off the wall, it's been stupefying. But it's only lucky me who's been party to it.

But I did once read something about BPDs 'disconnecting' sometimes and almost stepping outside of themselves. Once,  I called him out on a disagreement.  I said to him that I was beginning to feel as if he was totally unable to ever take responsibility for anything or say sorry, and that it was always me who had to take the 'blame' every time.  Of course you can take it as a given that he was drinking, but not drunk, and he flared up to that statement immediately, saying that if that's what I thought, I didn't know him at all. He stomped off into the bedroom. When I followed him in, he was sitting on the bed, staring intently into the middle distance, obviously not pleased and as if a bit of a red mist had come over him. It has not escaped me by the way, how melodramatic he is - another common theme amongst us all it seems. I think they thrive on it and need it as validation that we care. Anyway, I sat in there and waited, obviously on a back foot and staggered by his response... .like that of a small child (here we go again) It was deeply unsettling.  And then, just as suddenly as it had erupted, the mood lifted in a matter on minutes. He was 'back in the room' albeit with a slightly odd smile on his face. The whole thing had just gone like a puff of smoke. Where the heck had he gone in those moments? It really was quite, quite bizarre.

Bibi - spot on with the BBC link, yes.
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« Reply #36 on: April 18, 2016, 05:52:58 PM »

I think the point is, as with all mental/emotional disorders, there is a spectrum, isn't there? I understand that there are low functioning BPDs who wouldn't be able to hide it from anyone - in no way would mine fit into that category. If I described everything I've told all of you to some our mutual friends, I wonder if they would even recognise the person I am talking about. I am totally sure that the new best friend is utterly oblivious - all she thinks is that she met a knight in shining armour who happens to party too much. Bizarre if you ask me that she never questioned the amount of effort he went to for her, a person he had literally just befriended, but maybe she was in great need of that friendship at the time and was just grateful for the kindness. When I met my ex, I was healing from a previous (normal) breakup which had truly broken my heart, albeit in a totally different way. THAT ex and I are still very much friends, there was no animosity just profound sadness. I sometimes think that I was ripe for the plucking... .in need of love, physical affection and affirmation... .and hey presto, along it came x 100.  But I highly doubt that those other friends and acquaintances could possibly know what really lies beneath. He is a kind friend who 'does' for people - he did for me. But they are not close to him on the level I was, so they were fortunate to not have been exposed to the truth.  I am really very jealous of the new friend, because she gets all the very best qualities of him, his time and his friendship, and because they are friends, she won't get exposed to the other side. He values his friendships too much. So in essence, she is his girlfriend, without being his girlfriend, and gets to spend all that quality time with him with none of the drama. It sucks and it really f*cking hurts.

In no way does he 'tick the box' for all of the listed BPD traits, no way. Nonetheless, I am quite sure that that is what's at play here, for all the reasons I've told you. Sometimes the behaviour has been so off the wall, it's been stupefying. But it's only lucky me who's been party to it.

But I did once read something about BPDs 'disconnecting' sometimes and almost stepping outside of themselves. Once,  I called him out on a disagreement.  I said to him that I was beginning to feel as if he was totally unable to ever take responsibility for anything or say sorry, and that it was always me who had to take the 'blame' every time.  Of course you can take it as a given that he was drinking, but not drunk, and he flared up to that statement immediately, saying that if that's what I thought, I didn't know him at all. He stomped off into the bedroom. When I followed him in, he was sitting on the bed, staring intently into the middle distance, obviously not pleased and as if a bit of a red mist had come over him. It has not escaped me by the way, how melodramatic he is - another common theme amongst us all it seems. I think they thrive on it and need it as validation that we care. Anyway, I sat in there and waited, obviously on a back foot and staggered by his response... .like that of a small child (here we go again) It was deeply unsettling.  And then, just as suddenly as it had erupted, the mood lifted in a matter on minutes. He was 'back in the room' albeit with a slightly odd smile on his face. The whole thing had just gone like a puff of smoke. Where the heck had he gone in those moments? It really was quite, quite bizarre.

Bibi - spot on with the BBC link, yes.

It's crazy how similar our experiences are. When my ex would do things to cross boundaries or wrong me, she would get upset at me and I would be the one trying to fix things between us. But she would never own up to anything, or apologize. She would shut down or give me the silent treatment.
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« Reply #37 on: April 18, 2016, 05:54:41 PM »

Also, an interesting thing I may have read from a person with BPD is when people with BPD feel angry or sad, they are in that moment angry or upset about everything they have ever been angry about in life. I'm not sure how true it is, but it would seem so.
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« Reply #38 on: April 18, 2016, 09:40:48 PM »

Semantics - if you want to tell us please do. Everything I have said makes my story completely identifiable, but I think the chances of him being on here reading this are zero.  I'm sure the same must apply to you?

I'm not sure it does. He graduated during our time together with a Masters in Psychology and a license to practice therapy in the state where he lives -- and new self-identification as BPD. I asked him a few times if he was joking about this label and he said definitely not.

He is of a sort that will research boards like this for any clue how to properly behave -- to those he wants or feels he needs to impress. It's how we met during our respective divorces, on a support board online. I know he is likely still engaged with at least four support communities of various types. With fans there as many women and men love his style of writing and heart expression. That charisma spoken of here comes across online too; that's how I fell for him, months before ever hearing his actual voice or seeing him living and breathing right in front of me.

He is also of a sort that uses all his knowledge against someone. For the last year and a half of our relationship he insisted I was HPD. Now that he has the Masters and therapist license, he "diagnoses" anyone who crosses him.

If the new woman does, what if he winds up here, looking for details to haul off against her?

I don't care what happens to her. My story, though, is about how I betrayed him by exposing him for what he did, finally, last summer. I can't tell time anymore but I think it was only two weeks ago that he said I cannot be trusted; that I betrayed him. He hates that I ever spoke of his exploits to anyone -- friends, therapists, a recovery group.

I'm scared that by telling it here -- even though I've already said plenty, and in less than 24 hours of arriving -- will someday just be the final end.

Because to be honest, I still want him back, even disordered, and I have a feeling we just have not reached the final end. Even if he marries the person he replaced me with, I just don't think there even is an end, at all.



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« Reply #39 on: April 19, 2016, 04:59:49 AM »

Hi Semantics;


Wow, that's quite a story! That's a whole new twist to the tale there... .poor you. Still, even if he WERE on here and 'recognised' himself... .and what? What right would he have to be angry about it? You've sought support because of what he's done to you. In his most lucid moments, he would have to recognise that that meant he'd hurt you. He must also know deep down, because they are not otherwise insane, these people, that the issue IS him. He can't remonstrate with you.

I know exactly what you mean about it not being over. I can't quite believe this is really 'it' either, and I don't want it to be. I don't mean I harbour fantasies of us getting back together, for one thing, I wouldn't do that even though I miss him so very much, because he has proved himself to be so controlling, and failed to control me - hence why we are where we are now. But it doesn't feel like this is The End. It feels unreal to think I will never speak to him again. Even when I look at photos of him out drinking like a fish, I think... .but are you really happy though? I think not, deep down. I honestly don't think for 1 second that when he stood there ranting at me on Christmas morning that he thought I'd walk out.  It must have been a real shock... .I expect he was planning on flouncing out on me, so I turned the tables for once before he could.  So his consequent reaction of ghosting me now a knee jerk reaction to that... .but how long can he really maintain it?

You talk about questioning if there is ever really an end; that's funny, that's almost exactly the thought I had when he stood there going on and on and at me. I almost 'stepped outside' of myself and as he went on, and I just replied with calm and clear answers, batting off his accusations,

a little voice inside me said ... .wow. This is never, ever going to end, is it? It's just not. Remember, he had already told me when he broke up with me the 2nd time that it was 'for the best' that we didn't talk. Then, when I dared to talk to his friends, he deleted me on everything. Yet he saw fit to accost me in a bar when I wasn't going anywhere near him, didn't even know he was even there, to tell me in at length how I was being deleted from his life. Now, are those the actions of someone with whom it is really The End? Because if I was going to cut someone off, I most certainly wouldn't be up in their face telling them about it. Maybe that's just me. I just remember the full realisation of what I was dealing with ... and watching the mask truly falling off at this point. My heart sank not because I didn't want him to talk to me,  but because I was so saddened by what he was saying. He really did try to blame me for the consequences of his own actions. Even when I said, ":)o you know, I sat on the beach yesterday and cried my eyes out. My heart is broken. Do you understand that?" He simply dismissed it by saying that although it was his mistake, getting back together was that - a mistake. Absolutely no recognition of the hurt he'd caused at all, because he was so wrapped up in telling me how much I'd disappointed/angered him. Talk about projection.

He hasn't spoken to me for 4 months.  But time almost seems immaterial. He cut me off last year ('decision is made' and pretended he couldn't even see me on nights out, etc. to the absolute disgust of my friends. Then 6-7 weeks after breaking up with me spectacularly by text, after walking out on me in the bar, there he was in the exact same spot, blowing me a kiss, nudging me at the bar, and striking up an hour and a half conversation with me telling me all about what he'd been up to and how he realised he'd lost something important. In the intervening time, someone had passed on a goodbye letter, and a gift I'd had for him, on my behalf because I didn't want to bother him. We'd been split up almost 2 months. He talked to me as if he'd never even had a cross word with me. So, so surreal. I still didn't know what I was dealing with even then. When he went AWOL on me for 3 weeks after that meeting, I fell apart big time. Until the next time he approached me and got back together with me. Time with these people almost doesn't seem linear, but cyclical.  Groundhog Day anyone?

I know exactly what you mean about not being able to tell time anymore. I wake up every morning and the first thing I think about is the time he stayed here at my new place. I have a picture of him asleep in my bed. It feels like a dream... .but it definitely happened. Even though it was 5 months ago, it feels like yesterday.

Of course I don't want it to be The End, I fully understand why you say that and it resonates with me. Every single person I know, to a man, on hearing my story, has said to me, he will talk to you again. He will. The thing is, right now, I spend every day wondering that will be. It might NOT ever be, and I tell myself that. History suggests otherwise, but I have to steel myself.  I want it so much, just to take some of my pain away. I don't want him to be my enemy. I was more in love with him than with anyone I've ever known, and the pain of him painting me black is horrific. I've just learned to live with it.  Others outside of this just see an ex boyfriend behaving like an a-hole. We all know it goes far deeper than that.

And yet, there is he is... .on my Skype. On my Whatsapp. With my things still in his house. Hanging out all the time with his new best female friend. Drinking his own bodyweight in beer. Pretending I'm dead.

It's funny, I've tried to tell myself that this IS the end of all contact, and just get used to it... .that I must accept my fate, and that he doesn't want to know me anymore. I still absolutely love the man I was with. The person I see in photos is almost alien to me. Another voice in my end, based on all I've just written here, doesn't really believe it, deep down. I really, really do yearn for him to talk to me again. Just to say hello and give me a hug. But I can't make that happen. I wish there was a wand to make them split you white again, but he really was so very angry with me, I think. That's why when I caught him looking at me, I was so shocked to see not anger on his face, but a kind of embarrassed smirk. I don't get it at ALL.  It really does feel as though he's holding his breath to see how long he can do it before I'll break. But what he didn't vouch for I suppose, was me holding mine too.




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« Reply #40 on: April 19, 2016, 05:02:20 AM »

BTW 2 things have jumped out at me that you folks have said on this thread:

"I'll be painted black until I'm not"

and "he hasn't deleted you, he's using you as a canvas to project his emotions"...

Both of these statements to me, make the supposition that for all of us, this being painted black IS temporary. It might last months, maybe even years, but that it is temporary. 

Am I reading this correctly? Is that how you all see it?

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« Reply #41 on: April 19, 2016, 08:14:30 AM »

I have also been painted black. After my ex broke it off without warning she projected everything on me. I ran after her, I started up with her again, I was the one who needed a therapist, I was the one who needed meds and the list goes on. My ex wanted to remain friends after the 2nd time she put me thru hell. I said no way . This was over and a person who cared for the other weather it was friends lovers whatever would never do what she did . She was fine with all that. Not a care in the world. Didn't block me on any social media ... .yet. I had asked her to send me back a few things I had given her. A teddy bear etc. . Never sent them back and never answered my request. Weeks later I sent her a message on FB about sending me back the stuff I sent her yet again and now she said she got rid of the stuffed animals and gave them to her local shelter. I don't know if I believe it but after that convo I had she 2 days later blocked me. This was the beginning of October. As of now I am still blocked. I feel each person with BPD is different. Maybe one will paint u black after a few days or week. Maybe they will never unblock you . Mine ... .Will never ever unblock me . I feel I will be painted black forever.
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« Reply #42 on: April 19, 2016, 08:30:49 AM »

Stripey,

I can sense your yearning for a different ending to your relationship so here are several things to consider as you move forward (perhaps blunt and not all that pleasant to hear but that's what these boards are all about):

---Don't get hung up on "malignant hope".  A board member in the past coined this phrase and it has stuck with me since.  Although you truly would like to reconnect prepare yourself emotionally for the worst case in the event it doesn't happen.

---Try to wean yourself from social media.  FB and other sites are the perfect platform for anyone (and especially pwBPD) to project the image that they want the world to see (when's the last time you saw someone post that their son flunked Chemistry?).  I've avoided my ex's FB since the end of the year and it has helped me immensely in detaching and becoming indifferent.

---Remember the adage "pwBPd are consistently inconsistent". Logic does not apply to these relationships and only leads to frustration on our part.  Trying to identify with their mindset would be like trying to learn overnight to become left-handed if you are right-handed as their thought process is so unlike ours.

---Believe actions not words.  It doesn't matter what is said since what is done is what counts.

These are all points that I've used in the past 3 1/2 months to help focus on what I can control---myself.

LF
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« Reply #43 on: April 19, 2016, 08:41:43 AM »

Stripey,

I can sense your yearning for a different ending to your relationship so here are several things to consider as you move forward (perhaps blunt and not all that pleasant to hear but that's what these boards are all about):

---Don't get hung up on "malignant hope".  A board member in the past coined this phrase and it has stuck with me since.  Although you truly would like to reconnect prepare yourself emotionally for the worst case in the event it doesn't happen.

---Try to wean yourself from social media.  FB and other sites are the perfect platform for anyone (and especially pwBPD) to project the image that they want the world to see (when's the last time you saw someone post that their son flunked Chemistry?).  I've avoided my ex's FB since the end of the year and it has helped me immensely in detaching and becoming indifferent.

---Remember the adage "pwBPd are consistently inconsistent". Logic does not apply to these relationships and only leads to frustration on our part.  Trying to identify with their mindset would be like trying to learn overnight to become left-handed if you are right-handed as their thought process is so unlike ours.

---Believe actions not words.  It doesn't matter what is said since what is done is what counts.

These are all points that I've used in the past 3 1/2 months to help focus on what I can control---myself.

LF

Well said LF! And so very very true! I had no idea how screwed up and an emotional wreck my ex was until we became involved again. Her FB page was always positive! Hanging out with friends . Taking selfies! In other words her life was Great! Behind all that facade on Facebook was a mentally ill broken woman who would cry in her bathtub so her neighbors would not hear her. Paranoid beyond belief and the list goes on. So you are right! FB is an Illusion! A great magic trick! A Facade! Nothing more!
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« Reply #44 on: April 19, 2016, 08:59:59 AM »

Hi

Thanks, LF. Good pointers, although of course, as I am blocked on social media, that doesn't really play into it too much. I can't see his page. Yes, there are pictures of him on the page of the female friend, but strangely, it doesn't hurt me to see them. Guess what, he's drunk in most of them. To be totally honest, I never really looked at his FB page when we were together, or when we split up and he hadn't blocked me. It's full of football and his chosen (scary) music. So it wasn't a great loss. I can still see some of his other social media, and all that shows me is that he's drinking more than ever. I feel sad when I see it because I know this means something is even more wrong inside. He revels in his 'alcoholic' past time but to me it points to a downward spiral. Why, I don't know. But point taken.

I have resigned myself to the fact that he may never talk to me again. That is how I approach each day, and I have to. He is most certainly holding out. All I would counter that with is that 1) He has stopped talking to me before, although granted, this is a whole new level. 2) He has stopped talking to others before and even actively avoided them, only to be photographed with them months later... .although they weren't painted black and 3) the net is truly getting smaller, and smaller, by the day. The more established I become here, the more people I meet and the more I get out and about, the more our circles overlap. People I know know him, are now befriending me entirely in my own right. They want to be around me because... .well, I'm a nice person? In the much longer run, I do think he is going to end up looking like someone with a malicious little vendetta. Which he is.  Of course, I have no idea whether the silence and cutting off is to punish me, because he's angry, because he's hurt, or what. Impossible to say. But if it's a punishment, you would think he'd be hoping to gauge a reaction from me... .an apology or remorse, or begging. I've given none. He told me he was deleting me from his life, and I pretty much said... .ok.  Because I'm not dancing to his tune.

Inconsistency certainly is the key with BPD... .

And as for words... .well... .that's right, I am trying not to cling on to all the horrible childish accusations he lobbed at me last time we spoke. He was scrabbling around for more and more things to tear me down with. His actions since then have been to pretend I don't exist. But I see him looking at me.   The words were just someone lashing out. I'm not clinging on to all the nice things he said, at least not any more than the horrible ones.  They both warrant being ignored, or remembered, in equal measure. I think the danger is if we only choose to remember the nice things they said.

Thank you

P.S. Yes I absolutely do wish for a different ending. I didn't deserve this.
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« Reply #45 on: April 19, 2016, 09:03:26 AM »

In fact, thinking about it, when he went on and on and on at me on Christmas day, and I let him for a good 30-40 minutes... .I am sure I was supposed to react in some way. When he told me his deleting me news, it was all so dramatic. After physically stopping me from accepting a drink from someone he knew, he launched into a tirade. Not shouting, just going on and on relentlessly. If I had to put a finger on it, it was almost like he was disappointed in me. Maybe he was. I'm not saying I didn't make any mistakes ever, but the tirade was endless. I am sure there was supposed to be a reaction from me. I'm pretty sure that reaction wasn't supposed to be saying "ok" and walking out. 


Also... .I am sorry to reiterate this point again, and I know there is no applying logic in these scenarios... .but let's say he has decided that he never wants to talk to me again. That I truly am deleted from his life. Why leave any channels of communication open at all? Yet he has.
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« Reply #46 on: April 19, 2016, 09:12:03 AM »

Confused... .don't bet on it. Haven't you seen other posts on these boards where people have found themselves suddenly unblocked after 8 months? Or their ex on their doorstep after having been painted black for months... .many months.

The point is, just about anything is possible with them. That's the truth of it.
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« Reply #47 on: April 19, 2016, 09:34:18 AM »

Confused... .don't bet on it. Haven't you seen other posts on these boards where people have found themselves suddenly unblocked after 8 months? Or their ex on their doorstep after having been painted black for months... .many months.

The point is, just about anything is possible with them. That's the truth of it.

Stripey77 yes I have read where these ppl do come back after weeks months years. And some don't!  It really depends on the person as each BPD is different. Mine was my 1st love as teens. My ex was believe it or not Normal at that time. 1987. My mom broke us up threatened my ex and lied to her telling her I was dating another person and it was not true. When I tried getting her back she became this Monster she is now. A person I don't know anymore. Fast forward to 2013 Feb. she found me on FB. Sent me the friends request I stupidly accepted it. Then she right away wanted to talk about us and I shot her down.  I remember how much pain I went thru with her after I tried getting her back. I held her off without wanting to talk about our past up until last June. My ex would always send me PMs thru FB. So we ended up talking last June about us and she claimed she still loved me. Wanted me back after all these years. All the BS. Then came push pull. I want u I don't. Horrendous lies. Manipulation. Mind games all the crap that goes with BPD. Then Sept she ended it thru an email. Painted me black and that's it. Found out thru my own reaserch about BPD and her actions and here I am. So yes my ex did come back to me after 26 years. Waited patiently for me to take her bait for 2 1/2 years while friends on FB. And $crewed me over again. The same as teens. She has not changed one bit. Even the way she does things still the same. So yea some do come back and some don't. I just feel my ex got whatever she wanted from me and I will never hear from her again. Can I be wrong ... Maybe. But I don't think I am. It really is just a shame they are so sick and push the ones that do really love them away.
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« Reply #48 on: April 19, 2016, 10:16:08 AM »

In fact, thinking about it, when he went on and on and on at me on Christmas day, and I let him for a good 30-40 minutes... .I am sure I was supposed to react in some way. When he told me his deleting me news, it was all so dramatic. After physically stopping me from accepting a drink from someone he knew, he launched into a tirade. Not shouting, just going on and on relentlessly. If I had to put a finger on it, it was almost like he was disappointed in me. Maybe he was. I'm not saying I didn't make any mistakes ever, but the tirade was endless. I am sure there was supposed to be a reaction from me. I'm pretty sure that reaction wasn't supposed to be saying "ok" and walking out. 

Of course it wasn't. You abandoned him. You played right into that core fear. You triggered the feelings he tries to avoid. The ones that are so deep so intense he feels he will die.

As I now see I did too with my ex. Twice. Once by walking out and once by saying after his attempt at a recycle went sour I didn't want him back. Not that I see I had any choice; I had to protect myself so I had to walk away and I hadn't connected the BPD dots yet. And even if I had I would have had the tools to handle it better. Probably still don't.

Excerpt
Also... .I am sorry to reiterate this point again, and I know there is no applying logic in these scenarios... .but let's say he has decided that he never wants to talk to me again. That I truly am deleted from his life. Why leave any channels of communication open at all? Yet he has.

So has mine. He has tried to destroy me. And yet he has not deleted or blocked me on Whatsapp or LinkedIn. I cannot look inside his mind. So I don't know why. He probably couldn't even explain why. But I'm 99% sure he will never contact me.

My name, my presence, my existence has become synonymous with pain.

That's why I don't understand the LinkedIn invite from his sister. Maybe she wants to make it clear to him she is her own independent person. Knowing how he feels about her he will feel utterly betrayed by her for inviting me if this is the case. Or she has never seen him so hung up on someone and has waited for him to have another job to get into a calmer mood and then wants to build a bridge between us. But he will always be unreliable. A misanthrope. An alcoholic. A pwBPD. And I deserve more.

And so do you.

I know it hurts so so bad. I know part of you wants a different ending. Part of me still wants a different ending too but at the same time I'm not willing to sacrifice my happiness for him.

Focus on you. You so longed to be loved when you met him and IMO that's why you met him.

You are kind, attractive, social and fun. Spend time with friends being just that. Heal from him. Everybody wants to be loved, it's human, it's normal, it's natural. But if we want it too much we wind up with the wrong people.

The right one is out there for you. It just isn't him.
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« Reply #49 on: April 19, 2016, 10:49:00 AM »

Thanks Bibi, I know, I tell myself that.  Thanks for your words of wisdom.

I suspect that night, he was (yet again) going to walk out and leave me standing my own in the bar. It would have been the 3rd time. I actually totally shocked myself doing that and turning the tables on him but I seriously don't see what choice I had. He just wasn't letting up. OR he wanted me to fall on my knees and beg forgiveness for talking to his friends, for having a drink and falling over (there is a very uneven carpark outside the bar; nearly every one of us has fallen over on a night out on it at some point) and cutting my knee open. "You're 38! 38!" He kept repeating at me. Conveniently forgetting that his new friend who he had been running around after had broken her leg in almost the exact same spot. The hypocrisy is unreal. She's allowed to break her leg, but I'm an immature drunkard for cutting my knee. Says the man who has fallen asleep in his food after a drink -in the daytime I might add.  When he flew at me out of a dark corner in the bar, to say I was unprepared is an understatement  - I didn't even know he was there. His 'friend' (acquaintance) was standing on the other side of me and would you believe, trying to touch me up as all this was going on, because he was smashed and didn't realise the seriousness of the conversation. I had to push him off, and I wish I'd said to my ex, can you see where your 'friends' hands are? I was being attacked for this guy even passing me a drink on xmas eve as part of a larger group. It is nuts. Nuts! I said to him are you actually serious? How old are you?  And I even managed to say to him, very calmly, I will talk to whomever I please. I do what I want. I couldn't actually believe what I was hearing.

My point in all this is this is. if you've deleted someone and are indifferent to them... .why did he care that I cut my knee open? What concern is it of his whether I had broken both legs and my neck? He had already broken up with me at that point. Why stop me to tell me I've been deleted? What I can't work out is what he was expecting me to do? Stand there and let him rant at me forever and ever? Or until he flounced out?  I just don't get it. One thing's for sure, he loves the drama.

Despite knowing he can't give me what I need and deserve, I still miss my friend, very very much. I have never connected so much with someone at every level and can't help but think that must be true for him, at least in part. Even if you took out the physical side of our relationship... .I miss my friend, and that is the bottom line.  

Yet again, it sounds as if you and I have had very similar experiences. There comes a point when we have to protect ourselves, you are quite right. That's why I stopped trying to communicate when he's given me the silent treatment, and have just mirrored it.

But even you are '99%' sure he will never contact you again. The point is, as I said earlier... .we just don't know. Look what I just told you about my (non BPD) ex who had the breakdown. Six YEARS later he wants to make amends and take responsibility. It's human nature. Eventually, eventually, conscience kicks in. Unless someone is a sociopath or truly evil, they have a conscience. BPDs are human beings and subject to human nature and desires. Eventually, that little voice can't be ignored any more. And in my (non) ex's case, probably realised all these years later than he threw away the best thing he ever had. Regret is a b*tch. We're not solitary by nature, and the desire to come back into the fold eventually prevails. We don't want to stand outside in the cold forever. I am sure this even applies to BPD... .especially the more highly functioning ones. Think about my playground bully analogy again. What happens when actually his 'gang' decides they want to play with the other kids and cross back over to the 'other side' again? We all saw it happen at school. And the instigator is left standing alone. What choice do they have but to join back in... .or be alone?  All I can do is watch this space I guess. I'm not revolving my life around it, i just hope it happens one day.  


PS - you have talked about my ex feeling shame. That, I really don't know about. All he has ever done is tell me things are my fault. Until the first time he came back to me and said he didn't deserve me because of how he'd treated me. He said he couldn't wear the t shirt I gave him because he didn't deserve a present. Hard to say how sincere he was being but it was amazing to hear.  Yes you are right I HAVE seen him with the mask off and I suspect that's why I've been pushed away so hard now. But I don't think I've ever seen an ounce of shame. Who knows.
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« Reply #50 on: April 19, 2016, 11:14:29 AM »

Thanks Bibi, I know, I tell myself that.  Thanks for your words of wisdom.

I suspect that night, he was (yet again) going to walk out and leave me standing my own in the bar. It would have been the 3rd time. I actually totally shocked myself doing that and turning the tables on him but I seriously don't see what choice I had. He just wasn't letting up. OR he wanted me to fall on my knees and beg forgiveness for talking to his friends, for having a drink and falling over (there is a very uneven carpark outside the bar; nearly every one of us has fallen over on a night out on it at some point) and cutting my knee open. "You're 38! 38!" He kept repeating at me. Conveniently forgetting that his new friend who he had been running around after had broken her leg in almost the exact same spot. The hypocrisy is unreal. She's allowed to break her leg, but I'm an immature drunkard for cutting my knee. Says the man who has fallen asleep in his food after a drink -in the daytime I might add.  When he flew at me out of a dark corner in the bar, to say I was unprepared is an understatement  - I didn't even know he was there. His 'friend' (acquaintance) was standing on the other side of me and would you believe, trying to touch me up as all this was going on, because he was smashed and didn't realise the seriousness of the conversation. I had to push him off, and I wish I'd said to my ex, can you see where your 'friends' hands are? I was being attacked for this guy even passing me a drink on xmas eve as part of a larger group. It is nuts. Nuts! I said to him are you actually serious? How old are you?  And I even managed to say to him, very calmly, I will talk to whomever I please. I do what I want. I couldn't actually believe what I was hearing.

My point in all this is this is. if you've deleted someone and are indifferent to them... .why did he care that I cut my knee open? What concern is it of his whether I had broken both legs and my neck? He had already broken up with me at that point. Why stop me to tell me I've been deleted? What I can't work out is what he was expecting me to do? Stand there and let him rant at me forever and ever? Or until he flounced out?  I just don't get it. One thing's for sure, he loves the drama.

Despite knowing he can't give me what I need and deserve, I still miss my friend, very very much. I have never connected so much with someone at every level and can't help but think that must be true for him, at least in part. Even if you took out the physical side of our relationship... .I miss my friend, and that is the bottom line.  

Yet again, it sounds as if you and I have had very similar experiences. There comes a point when we have to protect ourselves, you are quite right. That's why I stopped trying to communicate when he's given me the silent treatment, and have just mirrored it.

But even you are '99%' sure he will never contact you again. The point is, as I said earlier... .we just don't know. Look what I just told you about my (non BPD) ex who had the breakdown. Six YEARS later he wants to make amends and take responsibility. It's human nature. Eventually, eventually, conscience kicks in. Unless someone is a sociopath or truly evil, they have a conscience. BPDs are human beings and subject to human nature and desires. Eventually, that little voice can't be ignored any more. And in my (non) ex's case, probably realised all these years later than he threw away the best thing he ever had. Regret is a b*tch. We're not solitary by nature, and the desire to come back into the fold eventually prevails. We don't want to stand outside in the cold forever. I am sure this even applies to BPD... .especially the more highly functioning ones. Think about my playground bully analogy again. What happens when actually his 'gang' decides they want to play with the other kids and cross back over to the 'other side' again? We all saw it happen at school. And the instigator is left standing alone. What choice do they have but to join back in... .or be alone?  All I can do is watch this space I guess. I'm not revolving my life around it, i just hope it happens one day.  


PS - you have talked about my ex feeling shame. That, I really don't know about. All he has ever done is tell me things are my fault. Until the first time he came back to me and said he didn't deserve me because of how he'd treated me. He said he couldn't wear the t shirt I gave him because he didn't deserve a present. Hard to say how sincere he was being but it was amazing to hear.  Yes you are right I HAVE seen him with the mask off and I suspect that's why I've been pushed away so hard now. But I don't think I've ever seen an ounce of shame. Who knows.

Your ex has a double standard as does mine.

My ex would hit on another girl to punish me and expect me understand why and take it. But when a guy came on to me without me doing anything to provoke this, he became so afraid I would be cheating on him somewhere down the line he actually went into a dissociative state right then and there. He froze. On the spot. Blank face. Unable to move. I understood something just happened that frightened him out of his wits even if I hadn't connected the BPD dots and tried to reassure him by very clearly telling the guy I wasn't interested and he should p off. It didn't do any good as my ex later hissed at me with a distorted face full of hate.

A respectable woman does not attract men. A respectable woman does not get drinks from men. A respectable woman does not get intoxicated. That is betrayal, it is cheating, it is naff, you and I were in their eyes basically no more than ladies that keep standing in life by lying down.

A man however can get slamming drunk and hit on anything with a pulse to prove his masculinity. Granted playing into this is not only a double standard but my ex's cultural background. Where I am allowed to be an independent working woman as long as I earn less than him and stay home while he hits the town at night.

Why he ranted at you? He was hurt. He felt betrayed, he felt hurt so much it was unbearable so to relieve the pain he lashed out and hurt you. He wanted to hurt you. And you were supposed to take it and understand why.

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« Reply #51 on: April 19, 2016, 11:32:07 AM »

Wow... .that is awful! To be totally honest, I don't think me getting tipsy, or even attracting men, would be the issue at all. Funnily enough, my ex is from a different culture to mine as well, and yes, it is a patriarchal one. (Still European) But he is no misogynist, he totally enjoys the company of women, his best friend is a woman and I know he is more than happy to drink himself senseless with female friends. He told me he was proud of me when I drank beers with him matching him 1-1. He is a big drinker full stop. So I don't think it's that but where you are spot on is of course, that he has double standards. That's for sure.  You could be right, maybe those things are fine for a friend to do, but not a GF. Although I was actually his ex, as he had just broken up with me again anyway. So I am back to the question, really, what business of his was it? I think it's more that it frightened the life out of him the he was away out of the country, and his new friends befriended me and we put our heads together.

It must have freaked him out when he woke up and saw that on FB the next day, as she took photos and posted them  Smiling (click to insert in post)

This was a quest to wrench back control. The thing is you can't control another human being unless they want to be (I don't) but most especially someone you've left! LOL! I mean really, I can talk to anyone I want. Anyone. And telling someone you've deleted them after you've already told them it's better you don't speak anyway ... .isn't that shutting the gate after the horse has bolted somewhat?  I mean, what difference does it make if he wasn't going to talk to me? The implication there is loud and clear to me: he had every intention of talking to me again at some point in the future, happy to be FB friends etc. and have some kind of part in my life. But because of what I did that night talking to his new friend... .I blew it. I blew my chances of him speaking to me, because I found out things I wasn't ever supposed to know.

Your ex sounds scary. Really scary.
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« Reply #52 on: April 19, 2016, 11:35:39 AM »

Just thought Bibi. My ex is far from stupid. Is yours?  Because there is only one reading to me if you leave someone as a contact on an app or messenger -and it's not an accident.  They want to have the option if one day they should change their mind. There's a separate thread about this where someone said they'd been unblocked but that was it... .and someone said yes so she can 'see' but not 'hear' you. Maybe that's what's happening here.  Mine certainly can't face me, that's why he's unfollowed me on everything. But not quite everything.
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« Reply #53 on: April 19, 2016, 12:02:41 PM »

Just thought Bibi. My ex is far from stupid. Is yours?  Because there is only one reading to me if you leave someone as a contact on an app or messenger -and it's not an accident.  They want to have the option if one day they should change their mind. There's a separate thread about this where someone said they'd been unblocked but that was it... .and someone said yes so she can 'see' but not 'hear' you. Maybe that's what's happening here.  Mine certainly can't face me, that's why he's unfollowed me on everything. But not quite everything.

Ridiculously intelligent.

Loves to be around women by the way (thought I might as well answer the 2 in 1), best friend is one and loves to drink with them. As he did with me. But there are very different limits and rules for HIS woman. He is a misogynist I think. Yes, still a European culture but don't be fooled, there is a MASSIVE difference between European cultures. Even now. Even with younger people. All you need to do is scrape the surface.

I'm guessing my ex is keeping his options open. Which, as BPD does, makes no sense as I am equal to Satan. But hey ho.

And yes of lot of the what the heck just happened stuff is about control. My ex is extremely avoidant but wanted to control me. He kept a lot from me. Prevented me from comparing notes with others. Divide and conquer. Half truths. Whole lies. Things left out.

Perhaps he is scary. I think he has a NPD component mixed in. With the BPD. And the OCD. And the depression. And the substance abuse.
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« Reply #54 on: April 19, 2016, 12:18:31 PM »

Your 'Wtf happened' comment just made me  Laugh out loud (click to insert in post) That sums it up about right!

I meant, my ex is European. As am I ... well, British  Smiling (click to insert in post) Whether we're still European remains to be seen after June... .joke. Where we live is a huge melting pot of different cultures, a lot of ex-pat. Many of them are from mine and his but the cultures are not that massively different. We're both Western European. I am aware that there are of course many many other differences across the continent.

They are keeping options open. They are. Otherwise we'd be deleted completely.

I'll 'fess something up here. I 'accidentally' on purpose sent a little sound clip on whatsapp the other day. Yes, yes, I know... .but it's the only 'contact' I've attempted in 4 months, so I think... .not bad going really. Of nothing but background noise, so it sounded like an accidental pocket call. I fully anticipated that I would be blocked on it being received, and wanted to put that to the test. Anyway. I wasn't. Still not. Now come on... .as I said. He's not stupid. Even if he's deleted my number it would show up with my contact details on there and show it as me. So some little, tiny part of him, however deeply buried, wants the option, as you said.

You're equal to Satan?  Smiling (click to insert in post) Join the club. I have have have to keep reminding myself, that as much as I am terrified of his rejection and ignoring me, every time he sees me, he may be feeling as rubbish as I am for all I know. Especially when he's alone and he sees me out in 'his' local area (which is practically mine our places are so close) For all I know he could be massively on a back foot. It's only me who knows that my mouth and legs are tingling. For all he knows, I don't care at all, because that's literally the only appearance I have projected all this time.
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« Reply #55 on: April 19, 2016, 12:52:35 PM »

Your 'Wtf happened' comment just made me  Laugh out loud (click to insert in post) That sums it up about right!

I meant, my ex is European. As am I ... well, British  Smiling (click to insert in post) Whether we're still European remains to be seen after June... .joke. Where we live is a huge melting pot of different cultures, a lot of ex-pat. Many of them are from mine and his but the cultures are not that massively different. We're both Western European. I am aware that there are of course many many other differences across the continent.

Lord yes... .Just have a look at the locals around you.

Excerpt
They are keeping options open. They are. Otherwise we'd be deleted completely.

I think I've taught myself enough about Whatsapp to guesstimate he has not deleted my number or anything.

Excerpt
I'll 'fess something up here. I 'accidentally' on purpose sent a little sound clip on whatsapp the other day. Yes, yes, I know... .but it's the only 'contact' I've attempted in 4 months, so I think... .not bad going really. Of nothing but background noise, so it sounded like an accidental pocket call. I fully anticipated that I would be blocked on it being received, and wanted to put that to the test. Anyway. I wasn't. Still not. Now come on... .as I said. He's not stupid. Even if he's deleted my number it would show up with my contact details on there and show it as me. So some little, tiny part of him, however deeply buried, wants the option, as you said.

... .wow... .What was your goal? Did you want him to contact you? Or was it a block test?

Excerpt
You're equal to Satan?  Smiling (click to insert in post) Join the club. I have have have to keep reminding myself, that as much as I am terrified of his rejection and ignoring me, every time he sees me, he may be feeling as rubbish as I am for all I know. Especially when he's alone and he sees me out in 'his' local area (which is practically mine our places are so close) For all I know he could be massively on a back foot. It's only me who knows that my mouth and legs are tingling. For all he knows, I don't care at all, because that's literally the only appearance I have projected all this time.

Yeah... need to file my horns every day... He hasn't heard from me for ever. I have sneakily had email contact with a girl I got along with well that I know he was and is close with. Just that I've been ill but I'm soo positive about everything and about how she was ill and blah blah but we never spoke about him. I know she will speak to him.

He has no clue how I feel right now. If I think about him, pine for him, hate him, or whatever.

Part of why I kept the Whatsapp stuff myself (and perhaps he too at first) is that even though he does not practice anymore he is a lawyer by profession. If there was ever any internal complaint I wanted proof of what happened. I knew I might need it. In that respect he can be scary. I know he took the previous internal complaint against him really far and I just know he and the other party involved (the one I emailed) lied about what happened between them.

Other than that I sense his FOO is scary. I sense his mum is scary.

And a very old friend, perhaps his best I'm not sure. He has stuff on his Instagram that made me instantly go cold. Stuff about cults, the famous American cultleader Charles M. I don't even want to write his name, the book by the German one that killed oh an estimated 17 million people 80 years ago. He is PROPER scary. He NEVER smiles (I see a pattern... .) in short the guy reeks of something ending in path. And they're buddies... .
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« Reply #56 on: April 19, 2016, 01:21:19 PM »



Excerpt
I'll 'fess something up here. I 'accidentally' on purpose sent a little sound clip on whatsapp the other day. Yes, yes, I know... .but it's the only 'contact' I've attempted in 4 months, so I think... .not bad going really. Of nothing but background noise, so it sounded like an accidental pocket call. I fully anticipated that I would be blocked on it being received, and wanted to put that to the test. Anyway. I wasn't. Still not. Now come on... .as I said. He's not stupid. Even if he's deleted my number it would show up with my contact details on there and show it as me. So some little, tiny part of him, however deeply buried, wants the option, as you said.

... .wow... .What was your goal? Did you want him to contact you? Or was it a block test?


Just wanted to see what he'd do, if anything... .

Every single day of my life I want to contact me. I think about him every single day. But I didn't think for a second THAT would make him do it. I was just having a very low day and wanted to see if I'd get blocked.

You can tell a lot about a person by the company they keep. That certainly is terrifying stuf re:the friend.

But your ending wasn't quite like mine, was it? I mean you turned him down right? Whereas I got dumped in a club after weeks of limbo because I loved him. After he sought me out for a reconciliation. That in itself is enough to make me want to tear my hair out, never mind the subsequent painting black.

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« Reply #57 on: April 19, 2016, 01:22:42 PM »

A lot of common characteristics in this thread!

My ex is also very intelligent (law degree from a top law school here in the States) and from what I've read pwBPD are generally pretty bright.  Additionally, she also struggles with a drinking problem (one of the first times we were together she outpaced me in the drinking category---and she's very petite  Red flag/bad  (click to insert in post)).  

Many times pwBPD don't close the door completely as they want to keep all options open (hence their well-refined ghosting and ST behaviors).  They like to keep exes tethered for potential future use.

Stripey, that being said, probably the more important question to ask yourself about any future contact that is initiated by you ex would be---how will you respond?  Keep in mind that if your ex reaches out it will be primarily about his needs at the moment and not yours.

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« Reply #58 on: April 19, 2016, 02:00:07 PM »

Hi Learning Fast  

Yes, there are certainly a lot of common themes!  I set this thread up because it's the painting black I am finding so very, very hard to deal with. The break up and consequent silent treatment was bad enough but that's even worse. I firmly believe that someone in my ex's life taught him at an early age that silent treatment is the way to deal with emotional pain or difficulty. It has got to have been shown to him somewhere... .I read an interesting article about this very topic in general, not to do with BPD but in general.

Anyway I digress. Firstly, yes, lots of intelligent exes. My most by far and away, not just intelligence but where he lit fireworks for me was the shared general knowledge across a very broad range of subjects. And similar interests in language, ancient history, wine, the gym, the same films, all sorts. But we could also go out and party together. Amazing. And no, he wasn't 'mirroring' me this was all genuine. This is why I feel so sad that we have both lost out - we really have. To find this on this tiny island we live in is... .unusual, to say the least. I couldn't believe my luck.

I don't know if anyone saw this on a previous thread but there were many similarities between us... .to the point that, I kid you not, we have the exact same first name, same spelling, everything. Our very first meeting, he exclaimed that it was fate. It certainly felt magical I can tell you.  The meeting of minds, and physical attraction on top made this a powerful package. The most mind blowing of my life. I wouldn't mind betting it took him aback a bit too. I'm not saying we had identical tastes in music etc. as we don't... .but all of a sudden things like that truly didn't matter. As I am sure lots of you will empathise with, I truly thought I had met my husband. My soul mate. I remember him staring into my eyes and I thought... .oh. It's you! You've who I've been waiting for all my life. This is why it hurts so very, very much that he now can't even talk to me.

Anyway. I know he is damaged. He knows he is damaged. My hopes... .IF he would ever contact me, would be to have a friendship. Just a friendship. Or at least be on friendly terms. It's probably a pipe dream because the sexual attraction is way too high. We made a good looking couple. I lost count of the people of all nationalities here who asked us when we were getting married... .commented how in love we looked. How they could see in our eyes how happy we were.  Maybe it's not possible to have a 'friendship' but it is quite possible NOT to be in this place of painful silent hostility.


He is self aware enough to know that he is damaged. The first time he broke his silence and was all over me like a puppy in the bar, in front of all our respective friends, even then, he told me he didn't deserve me. The last time we'd spoken he'd refused to make eye contact with me as I begged him not to leave me and told him how sick I was with grief. I had never heard of BPD at that point. I was in total shock that someone could just drop me in an instant over one tiny, tiny difference of opinion. He told me that night to forget him and hate him, that he didn't want to cheat me, he'd rather be alone than leave me again anyway. There was an attempt to push me away for my own good, I think. But just 3 weeks later he was back talking to me and chatting me up, in the same bar, eyes most definitely on me in a big way, telling me he didn't deserve me. He kissed me in front of all of our friends. Then he disappeared into thin air before getting back together with me a few weeks later.

Would I allow that again? No. I don't think in a million years that is going to happen anyway.  

I just want us to be able to say hello and exchange pleasantries. That is my most realistic goal in an attempt  to mitigate some of the pain. That's it. I know it would be for his benefit if it ever happened, and clearly right now he doesn't need me. He has his new best lady friend so I'm not needed. No responsibilities required of him with her either other than being a good friend, so he's in his element. It would be interesting to see what would happen if she finds a new BF.


Isn't it strange how heavy drinking keeps cropping up again and again and again here? I mean heavy. And he is highly functioning with it.

And... .I don't think all BPD are intelligent, no. It's a spectrum disorder by my understanding. Some are very low functioning and can hardly hide it at all.
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« Reply #59 on: April 19, 2016, 02:14:15 PM »

Sometimes I actually have to remind myself what actually happened.

My boyfriend sought me out to get back with me after telling me something had been missing, what a mistake he'd made. How important I am to him, one of the most important people in his life. After breaking my heart, he put it back together again for a moment. Although something felt not quite the same as before... .a bit less contact, less enthusiasm in his texts. Until he warmed up again and told me how his brain is injured and how much he needs me. He opened up big time.

Then he stood me up by getting so drunk he couldn't make a date. And  tried to turn that on me for not reading his mind. It was the 2nd in a short space of time he'd missed by getting blind drunk.

Then he stopped talking to me for 3 weeks. I stopped trying as soon as I realised I was meeting a stone wall again.

Then he told me after those 3 weeks of silence that it's over because I love him so much.

That's it. Over. And back to silence. Just like that. Dumped at 4 am in a club like a teenager in a first romance. After all of that.

And now on top of it all, painted black.

It is an absolutely, mind bendingly, staggeringly awful way to treat someone.  How do these people feel ok in themselves? They can't do. They just can't.

The circle is getting smaller by the day. Even today even more people I happen to know who know him, have asked to 'friend' me and my social circle is widening by the day. And there he is to the side, pretending I don't exist.  :'(
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« Reply #60 on: April 19, 2016, 02:30:42 PM »

Stripey,

Perhaps you've already mentioned this but refresh my memory.  How long were you with him?  Once there was the initial break how long between the push/pull episodes?  When is the last time you were in contact with him?

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« Reply #61 on: April 19, 2016, 02:32:26 PM »

Stipey,

Your ex sounds a lot like mine. I'm going on 4 weeks ST.  The day finally happened, our path's crossed on Friday night. I went to this local bar we both attend and our common friend was there, he said, "hey you just missed ****!", mind you it was 7 pm and he said he had been there since noon, got so drunk, threw up all over the table outside and got kicked out. Classy. So the guy said, he's probably still here waiting for his uber, come with me. I went downstairs, saw him standing with a friend, walked up to him, grabbed his arm gently and said "can you talk to me"... .he backed away and mumbled "I don't want to talk to you", walked toward his uber then kind of like oddly stared at me for 10 seconds before getting in. I thought I was going to be a mess, but I took a big breathe and put on my big girl panties and went back inside.

I went up to our mutual friend (who's a bouncer) and he was like why won't he talk to you? I'm like I have no idea but it's going on a month. He said it was weird because he was asking about me earlier that day, like if I had been in there at all. I thought that was strange, like why paint me black but then go around asking about me. Then I'm like did you ask him why it's over, and he said that it was hard to understand him because of the drinking but he mumbled something like, " I don't know what she does when I'm not here." (he goes away for work 6 weeks every other month, when he went ST on me it was the first time we had gone through his 6 weeks of being away). So found that kind of odd since he knows he could trust me. But yeah, my "first run in". He's only here for another week before he goes away again for work, but it's my birthday this week, so that will be hard. We had talked about going to Cabo and now I just have the two days off work to stick around town.

Still confused as to when/or if he is ever going to come around and why is he asking about me?
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« Reply #62 on: April 19, 2016, 02:33:13 PM »

Original post here:

https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=292680.0
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« Reply #63 on: April 19, 2016, 02:58:28 PM »

Hi LF

I walked out on him on Christmas day from a bar when he wouldn't stop going on and on and on at me.

I have not once attempted to contact him since. But in the last 6-8 weeks I've seen him out quite a fair few times, and not least of all because I've stopped actively avoiding places in case he is there. I've been timing trips to the only main supermarket in town and other places I need to go in case I see him for godssake! I've been stepping out more and more recently, taking  a deep breath and just doing it.

Every time he's seen me he's walked past me and/or friends. The first time in a restaurant. The owner is friends with both of us... .it was excruciating.  The last time I saw him and know that he saw me was a couple of weeks ago when he walked past the bar and I was in it. I looked up just in time to see that he'd seen me and you should have seen the look on his face. He went home that week and blocked me on IG. So so sad. After 3 months of me staying the hell away.

I was with him from this time last year until almost September. Then he kissed me in October. Got back with me 1st November. Left me in December. Told me on Christmas day that I'm deleted from his life.

In short, it dominated most of last year and now I've just been left with the pieces to pick up by myself. I realise it was not long term but please don't underestimate the intensity or the feelings involved. I don't really think it's that relevant if I'm totally honest. It's the fact that it's an 'open wound' that I've been left to close by myself that is the problem. If I could just say oh it's been X months now, I should be feeling better... .I would.
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« Reply #64 on: April 19, 2016, 03:36:40 PM »

Stripey,

I fully understand as the intensity of these relationships is like no other.  And the feelings were mutual during most of our time together as well.  There's is not a doubt in my mind that she loved me---until she didn't.

The idealization phase for me was Oct '13 thru Sept '14 followed by several recycles from Nov '14 thru June '15.  We parted at that time and have only seen each other a handful of times since.

I discovered BPD during the Sept '14-Nov '14 break (meaning I've studied the disorder for over 1 1/2 yrs by now) so by the time we recycled I had a pretty good sense of what was ahead.  The reason I mention this is because it was extremely helpful in becoming as knowledgeable as possible about the disorder and I would strongly recommend that you do the same.  Read, read, read.  Learn, learn, learn. Post, post, post.  This site is superb and probably the best online source for nons.  I've also spent some time on pwBPD sites as well.

The point of all of this is as you become more and more knowledgeable you'll be able to make some sense of the nonsense.  Find some consistency in the inconsistency.  Recognize some patterns in the randomness.  I realize that this is very difficult at the present since you're consumed by "What the heck just happened?".  Just step back and work on you and you alone---and the best way of doing this initially is thru learning all that you can about the disorder.

The learning curve involved is measured in weeks and months---not hours and days.  Commit to becoming a BPD expert over the course of the next month and I'll guarantee that by mid-May you'll learn a whole lot about both him---and yourself.

Remember:  time + distance = clarity + objectivity

LF

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« Reply #65 on: April 19, 2016, 03:51:09 PM »

Hi LF

Trust me, I have been reading, and reading, and reading... .and reading. I'm learning more and more. This site has been an unbelievable comfort. I have NO doubt at all that my ex loved me. If I had to go out on a limb, I would say he is still attached.  I say this because someone who is indifferent doesn't go home after seeing their ex in a wine bar and block them on a social media when she doesn't even ever bother you. Probably in shock that someone stood up to him at last, and not only that but when he pushed me yet again, I took the hint and walked.  I didn't want to, let's be clear. I miss him. Every day.

I've learnt so very much these last few months, I'm slightly past the 'what the heck happened?' stage. I've got that bit clear I think. It's the coping with the current silent treatment/deletion/painting black that I am struggling with. I'm past the depression and extreme lows of a few weeks ago. Even the loneliness has dissipated. I am getting busier all the time. I am of course lonely in the romantic sense, and trapped in that I so want to be with someone... .but I don't want anyone else apart from him right now. Unless someone comes along who can top the feelings I had for him. I have to have faith that they will. In the mean time, keep busy. This too shall pass.

I reached for support on here because 1) I kept seeing similar themes on here that resonate with mine so much, it was impossible to ignore. It confirmed what I have suspected and researched for ages. It was a theory. Now, I am sure. I was just shocked to see the similar patterns they all follow... .as someone remarked on another thread, it's like they have a handbook. It is surreal.

but 2) because I miss my friend. I miss him so very much it's unreal. And unlike my last break up when I put 3,000 miles between us and started a new life, and WE are still friends... .it was a normal break up... .my BPD's house is approximately 4 minute's walk from mine. Our town is small. Our social groups shared and overlapping. All the ex pats here are like one big family.  I miss him so much and yet he's on my doorstep. And about a billion miles away from me.  That's why I need support.

Thank you
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« Reply #66 on: April 19, 2016, 04:15:45 PM »

We know what it's like. The pain. The depression. The what the heck moments. The recognition here. The ST. The being painted black. Having to be close while someone pretends you're dead (you) or wants you dead (me). And we all know breakups are painful anyway. Here we know these BPD breakups are super painful, like no other breakup ever. Like no other experience ever.

But we also know there is opportunity to learn from the relationship and the breakup. And two things about your last post worry me Stripey. That you so want to be with someone and that you hope someone will come along that can top the feelings you had for and with your ex.

So wanting to be with someone has a big risk attached. Of not seeing  Red flag/bad  (click to insert in post)  , of getting in a relationship with the wrong guy...   The high we feel with a pwBPD can IMHO only be topped by a pw a PD... Whether it is BPD or NPD.

I don't want to be with someone right now. Yes, I am afraid sometimes I will end up alone. I know now I will never have children and accepting that is really really hard. But I want to be with me right now and not with anybody else. I need to be happy alone. I need to heal from all of this before any relationship would ever stand a chance. And I want the next relationship to be a healthy one. One without these incredible lows. That means I can't have the highs either. I need to understand what true adult love looks like instead of an instant intense soulmate connection that takes me on a roller coaster ride and makes me feel like either a junkie on a high or that has gone cold turkey.
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« Reply #67 on: April 19, 2016, 04:32:29 PM »

Ah... .no. You misunderstand me Bibi.  I most certainly do not want to be with 'someone'/'anyone'. Sorry, I should have explained that better.

I will be straight up and tell you I get asked out a lot. I have had plenty, plenty, of offers. Romantic, probably some not so romantic Laugh out loud (click to insert in post)... .you know what I mean. I am most certainly not lacking for male admirers and if I wanted to simply replace my ex with Mr. A. N other... I could do so tonight.

What I meant was, I don't want anyone until or if that moment comes that I meet someone who makes me feel as he did. And by that, yes, I mean I want someone who is both intellectually and physically attractive to me. I want no less than that. But, I want it without the crushing lows. Such a person would, by definition, top what I had with him. I just think that such a connection is not something that happens on an every day basis. BPD to one side for a moment, he and I truly had some undeniable common ground and connected on several levels.

In the meantime I am most definitely working out, making my home lovely, working hard, socialising and expanding my circles here. I'm not out on the prowl looking for the next one to plug the gap. I'm far choosier than that and have resigned myself to being alone until the right man comes along. I'll know when he does. I accept that in the meantime I have to embrace being alone.

That said, I will not shy away from stating that my life aspirations are to find a loving relationship and have someone with which to share my life, my body, and all that goes with it. I want that very badly. But not so badly that I will leap into just 'something'. I write this in my 5th month of solitude. As a woman at her 'peak' I am also, sadly, mentally writing off the possibility of motherhood if I don't meet someone soon-ish. But that's not the driving force for me. The fact that I want a lover, friend and partner to share my life with, packaged up in the right man, IS a driving force. I'm prepared to wait. But at the same time,  I'm not going to turn into Miss. Haversham.
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« Reply #68 on: April 19, 2016, 05:32:10 PM »

Thank goodness  Doing the right thing (click to insert in post)

I know... all in one package... .it's why I was willing to overlook what I thought as minor flaws at the time. Intelligent, funny, witty, well read, well educated, original, his own person, had seen things in life, deep internal life, interested in literature, philosophy, haikus, yoga, travel, but pub nights too, and gorgeous to boot!
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« Reply #69 on: April 19, 2016, 06:11:21 PM »

Ha it is weird how they all have similar traits. Mine was soo funny, life of the party, very sociable, everyone loved him, smart, athletic, top of his job, national track star growing up, etc... .

I did notice a trend with the drinking too. Mine is always out, never wanting to just chill at home, needs to constantly be around people.

I'm surprised I haven't heard more military stories... .mine is military, thought maybe it was PTSD at first but I also read that gets wrongly diagnosed a lot with BPD. Maybe it's the mood swings... .
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« Reply #70 on: April 19, 2016, 06:19:46 PM »

Ha it is weird how they all have similar traits. Mine was soo funny, life of the party, very sociable, everyone loved him, smart, athletic, top of his job, national track star growing up, etc... .

I did notice a trend with the drinking too. Mine is always out, never wanting to just chill at home, needs to constantly be around people.

I'm surprised I haven't heard more military stories... .mine is military, thought maybe it was PTSD at first but I also read that gets wrongly diagnosed a lot with BPD. Maybe it's the mood swings... .

Noo... .no chilling at home... Then you're confronted with you. Distraction is needed from the turmoil within. Distraction is not found chilling at home. Distraction is out there. People, alcohol, bars, alcohol, noise, alcohol, music, alcohol, South American nose powder, alcohol, flirting, alcohol, dancing, alcohol...
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« Reply #71 on: April 19, 2016, 06:32:39 PM »

We chilled together at home a fair few nights... .especially in the beginning. But we also went out a lot too.
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« Reply #72 on: April 19, 2016, 06:49:04 PM »

All,

Eerily familiar behaviors once again.  Mine travelled constantly as well (pure escapism).  Additionally, since she had ample resources these weren't simply trips from state to state---more like country to country or continent to continent.

One funny story on that score.  Once she lamented that she was really no more than a "housewife" (core BPD behavior trait---lack of self-esteem).  I mentioned that a more appropriate term/title would be "stay-at-home mom".  She gave me a puzzled look and said "What do you mean? I'm never home!"

LF
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« Reply #73 on: April 19, 2016, 06:51:56 PM »

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