Low Contact (LC): who have tried it? Your experience and advice?

[Family Court Strategies: When Your Partner Has BPD OR NPD Traits.]

I see that motivations are different from one to another.

I don't particularly want to be friend with my ex. I wouldn't mind to be friends in a way That could help for our kids to see each other more often, but my ex has always said that he doesn't believe in friendship with exes. And I think it will not be different with me. So he will expect more from me than a friendship

I think that if I maintained LC, it will only be for him, not for me. I will see what the T tells me tomorrow and I will decide what I do.

I may start with LC and see how it works. It may be longer for him to detach than NC.

[Isa_lala]

I see that motivations are different from one to another.

I don't particularly want to be friend with my ex. I wouldn't mind to be friends in a way That could help for our kids to see each other more often, but my ex has always said that he doesn't believe in friendship with exes. And I think it will not be different with me. So he will expect more from me than a friendship

I think that if I maintained LC, it will only be for him, not for me. I will see what the T tells me tomorrow and I will decide what I do.

I may start with LC and see how it works. It may be longer for him to detach than NC.

[steelwork]

Lc leads to increased contact, leads to recycle.

In my experience.

This definitely wasn't true in my case, but then I was probably doing it all wrong.

Briefly: our relationship was an affair that had been on and off for years, but always friendly. The pattern was that we would be on, then he'd get angry at me over something, and it would turn out that he was really angry that I hadn't left my bf yet. Then he would pull back from romancing me, but bombard me with promises of eternal friendship. He'd start putting me on a friend pedestal, saying how great I was. Then slowly he would start romancing me and we'd be on again.

Then, a year and a half ago, he went strangely cool for a few weeks. Then, over a gchat, he said asked if I'd be mad if he started seeing someone. Of course I couldn't object. What could I say? He had, as he put it, "given me dibs." I told him I would be sad but not mad. Then I asked if he was seeing anyone and he said no, but he he'd worked really hard to get over me, and he'd done it, and he was proud.

This was a total surprise to me, that he'd been doing this work and that it had been achieved-apparently during time he'd been distant with me? Signing off, he reiterated his usual "friends always" insistence. Then he went silent for a few days, and when I asked him if anything was wrong (over email), he told me nothing was wrong, he was just busy, and happy seeing someone else.

I know this sounds asinine but it came as a huge shock--and even more shocking was his response when I asked if we could talk about what was happening. Another silent period, and then a full-blown email rage attack. I could go f- myself if I thought I was any kind of victim (I hadn't said I was), he'd seen our situation for what it "really was," I had "no right to feel blindsided," etc. I was so floored and felt so guilty, couldn't argue with him, just told him he was my great love and I wished him well. He said, "You too, steelwork. All of it." And then he went silent for a month.

I was totally devastated. Why, you might ask, had I not left my bf for him if I felt so strongly about him? Topic for another day. Very complicated. But after what happened, I was so wrecked at the thought of losing him forever that I DID break up with my bf. I sent him an apology, a love letter, told him I had made the move he'd pressed me for, I'd chosen him and I would do anything to win his trust back. This got me a phone call in which he didn't even mention the fact that I'd broken up with my bf and moved into my brother's attic. Instead we talked about his abandonment issues and the fact that he felt like a "different person" and that he had replaced me with... .a woman we knew who he had always been completely dismissive of and made fun of, who openly hated me, and who was 16 years his junior.

Okay, I'm blathering on totally off-subject. The point is that there followed 2 months of low contact, in which he absolutely tortured me with promises of a real conversation, then deflections, changing the subject, whining about HIS life, evading, etc. When I finally put it to him bluntly that what was going on between us was not what I would consider friendship, he sent me a very mean and sarcastic email ("I didn't know about the terms and conditions" and disappeared forever.

So that was my experience with low contact. It was miserable. And it decidedly did NOT lead to more contact.

[balletomane]

My ex and I had been best friends for years before the relationship. When he abruptly discarded me for his flatmate, he told me that he hoped I would stay his friend, because he 'needed' me. In spite of the callous way he treated me - like a thing, not like a person - and the unfairness of what he was asking, I said yes to that. I was very committed to maintaining a friendship even though I felt as though I was wearing pain like a second skin. Six weeks on, and I realised that it would not work. The effort of trying to maintain a friendship with someone who couldn't care less about me was making me ill and miserable. We'd gone from talking every day, multiple times a day, to him sending one-word texts or IMs in response to anything I sent him. Usually there would just be an emoticon. That was it. In those six weeks, he did not find time to meet once. He was always too busy (but not too busy to socialise with the new friends he had met through his new girlfriend). I only saw him once, when I ran into him accidentally, and he made it clear he wished I wasn't there (monosyllables, not looking me in the face, walking in the opposite direction without saying goodbye). And then I realised that when he'd asked for my friendship, what he really meant was my reassurance that everything was OK, everything was fine, he hadn't done anything bad. He just wanted me to sink quietly into the water without rocking the boat. He didn't actually want any kind of contact with me, just the knowledge that I was out there somewhere and he could call on me as and when needed. I went NC because this was extremely painful, being forced to witness on a daily basis how little I mattered to the guy who was still telling me I was his best friend. It was only when I cut contact with him that I started to feel better.

[NCEA]

No doubt loving someone who doesn't love you back is the worst thing in the world.

We just need to accept it. If you care about him then you shouldn't have a problem just getting those small signs that he's ok and alive... .while you move forward. What's better, LC or NC, probably NC but in my case it's worse, I think if I go NC again I will again sink into depression. I rather hear her voice once in a while.

My ex and I had been best friends for years before the relationship. When he abruptly discarded me for his flatmate, he told me that he hoped I would stay his friend, because he 'needed' me. In spite of the callous way he treated me - like a thing, not like a person - and the unfairness of what he was asking, I said yes to that. I was very committed to maintaining a friendship even though I felt as though I was wearing pain like a second skin. Six weeks on, and I realised that it would not work. The effort of trying to maintain a friendship with someone who couldn't care less about me was making me ill and miserable. We'd gone from talking every day, multiple times a day, to him sending one-word texts or IMs in response to anything I sent him. Usually there would just be an emoticon. That was it. In those six weeks, he did not find time to meet once. He was always too busy (but not too busy to socialise with the new friends he had met through his new girlfriend). I only saw him once, when I ran into him accidentally, and he made it clear he wished I wasn't there (monosyllables, not looking me in the face, walking in the opposite direction without saying goodbye). And then I realised that when he'd asked for my friendship, what he really meant was my reassurance that everything was OK, everything was fine, he hadn't done anything bad. He just wanted me to sink quietly into the water without rocking the boat. He didn't actually want any kind of contact with me, just the knowledge that I was out there somewhere and he could call on me as and when needed. I went NC because this was extremely painful, being forced to witness on a daily basis how little I mattered to the guy who was still telling me I was his best friend. It was only when I cut contact with him that I started to feel better.

[balletomane]

No doubt loving someone who doesn't love you back is the worst thing in the world.

We just need to accept it. If you care about him then you shouldn't have a problem just getting those small signs that he's ok and alive... .while you move forward. What's better, LC or NC, probably NC but in my case it's worse, I think if I go NC again I will again sink into depression. I rather hear her voice once in a while.

As you quoted me, I presume you're referring to my post when you say, "You shouldn't have a problem... ."

I spent months during my relationship telling myself that my feelings weren't valid. That if I cared about him, I shouldn't have a problem when he threatened suicide and then deliberately went incommunicado for two days in order to frighten me and punish me for not being saying the right things. ("He's unwell, I should be more more understanding of what he's going through." That if I cared about him, I shouldn't have a problem when he called me evil or sneered at me when I was crying or told me I didn't deserve any kindness from him. ("He's a lovely person really, I shouldn't focus on the things he says when he's unwell." During the six weeks that I tried to maintain the friendship with him, I used this exact same line of reasoning. But it's damaging and it doesn't work, because it involves suppressing perfectly human reactions and denying the validity of perfectly reasonable expectations.

It was reasonable for me to expect that he would not start seeing someone else while he was still romantically and sexually involved with me. It was reasonable for me to expect that anyone calling me their best friend, and asking me to stay that way, would make time for me in their life. It was reasonable for me to feel that my needs mattered as much as his and to be hurt when his behaviour didn't reflect that. Accepting that he doesn't love me was necessary, of course, but acceptance isn't the same thing as guilt-tripping myself into not minding his selfish callous behaviour ("If I care about him, I shouldn't have a problem with it!". Not helpful at all.

[Isa_lala]

I may be in a different situation from some people here. I have left my BF because of his behaviors that i know wouldn't change, but also because the love i had felt for him was fading away... .

he is seeing a T each week and if he had done that even 1 year ago, i believe I would have been supporting him and loving him more. But it is kind of too late.

so HE is the one who is in demand of staying in contact with me. He still believes he can seduce me and have me back in his life. Because he cannot imagine his life without me (until he finds another source of attachment... .)

for the moment, I don't miss him, I don't miss the family life we had, i don't miss anything. I think it is because i am still in the healing process. All what i hated in our relationship is still very fresh in my mind, and takes the all place. No place for the good memories for the moment.

it is where I have to decide if i go with LC or not... .seeing my T in an hour, I will let you know what she suggests

[once removed]

so HE is the one who is in demand of staying in contact with me. He still believes he can seduce me and have me back in his life. Because he cannot imagine his life without me (until he finds another source of attachment... .)

it seems counterintuitive, but blocking or going silent on someone can often result in that person upping the ante so to speak, drive stalking behaviors, revenge, any desperate behavior designed to get a reaction or response from you. im not saying that applies to your situation, but it does in many. in those cases, giving that person an outlet, while gradually withdrawing, disengaging, being boring or non responsive can often achieve a goal of no contact better than a sudden cut off.

[Isa_lala]

so HE is the one who is in demand of staying in contact with me. He still believes he can seduce me and have me back in his life. Because he cannot imagine his life without me (until he finds another source of attachment... .)

it seems counterintuitive, but blocking or going silent on someone can often result in that person upping the ante so to speak, drive stalking behaviors, revenge, any desperate behavior designed to get a reaction or response from you. im not saying that applies to your situation, but it does in many. in those cases, giving that person an outlet, while gradually withdrawing, disengaging, being boring or non responsive can often achieve a goal of no contact better than a sudden cut off.

it is exactly how I feel. I think the most important here is never forget to ask myself how I feel in each situation. And act according to MY needs and not his. With that in mind I think I can have a sort of control on our contacts.

[steelwork]

It was reasonable for me to expect that anyone calling me their best friend, and asking me to stay that way, would make time for me in their life. It was reasonable for me to feel that my needs mattered as much as his and to be hurt when his behaviour didn't reflect that. Accepting that he doesn't love me was necessary, of course, but acceptance isn't the same thing as guilt-tripping myself into not minding his selfish callous behaviour... .

balletomane, I'm nodding vigorously to this. This is exactly the trap I had to pull myself out of via zero contact. My expectations of even minimal friendship weren't being met with the form of LC he was capable of. My expectations were totally reasonable, and he was trying to have his cake ("I'm a great guy!" and eat it, too ("I can dump my hostility on her when it suits me!"

When you've been intensely focused on being the bigger person, it's so easy to invalidate yourself, never mind setting yourself up to be invalidated and abused by someone with (at the very least) a childlike level of emotional maturity.

[MapleBob]

It was reasonable for me to expect that anyone calling me their best friend, and asking me to stay that way, would make time for me in their life. It was reasonable for me to feel that my needs mattered as much as his and to be hurt when his behaviour didn't reflect that. Accepting that he doesn't love me was necessary, of course, but acceptance isn't the same thing as guilt-tripping myself into not minding his selfish callous behaviour... .

balletomane, I'm nodding vigorously to this. This is exactly the trap I had to pull myself out of via zero contact. My expectations of even minimal friendship weren't being met with the form of LC he was capable of. My expectations were totally reasonable, and he was trying to have his cake ("I'm a great guy!" and eat it, too ("I can dump my hostility on her when it suits me!"

When you've been intensely focused on being the bigger person, it's so easy to invalidate yourself, never mind setting yourself up to be invalidated and abused by someone with (at the very least) a childlike level of emotional maturity.

Same here. I spent ten months in LC - and yeah, I was occasionally demanding or needy or pushy or angry or whatever - trying to transition into being her friend, hearing that I was important and that she "wanted to keep me", and dealing with her dysregulation and push/pull games and majorly showing up for her, only to have her eventually turn around and say that she never wanted to be friends in the first place! "I never wanted to be your friend, I wanted to be with you, but now we can't, so ... ."

It's just not worth it - unless you want to continue to suffer in order to finally detach when you've finally had enough.

[balletomane]

balletomane, I'm nodding vigorously to this. This is exactly the trap I had to pull myself out of via zero contact. My expectations of even minimal friendship weren't being met with the form of LC he was capable of. My expectations were totally reasonable, and he was trying to have his cake ("I'm a great guy!" and eat it, too ("I can dump my hostility on her when it suits me!"

When you've been intensely focused on being the bigger person, it's so easy to invalidate yourself, never mind setting yourself up to be invalidated and abused by someone with (at the very least) a childlike level of emotional maturity.

When things started to go wrong between us, I was terrified that he would cut contact with me and never speak to me again, the way he had with so many of his exes and former friends. (Or the way I thought he had - now I know that they may have been the ones to end the contact.) I didn't realise it, but he is unlikely to have done that: he wanted me around as a punching-bag, much as you describe. I think he also liked the idea that he still had an option in me, even if he didn't consciously phrase it that way to himself. But I had a suspicion that once he was confident in his new relationship and the new circle of friends that excluded me, he would react in the MapleBob experienced and decide that he didn't want me as a friend either. I felt like I was outliving my usefulness for him, and the only way to stop being an object that got used was to terminate this state of affairs myself, rather than waiting for him to do it. As I see it, LC allows too much room for the manipulation to continue.

[Isa_lala]

I just read this article about no contact https://bpdfamily.com/bpdresources/nk_a110.htm

That helps me to better understand what no contact can mean

I believe that the most difficult part for me in going LC is that I cannot help from answering his emails. I don't answer all of them ( I can receive 20-30 emails a day) but I answer several and try to make him understand me. And it is useless... .He will always think about HIM, and will never care about what I want, what are MY emotional needs... .

I really to control myself and answering without answering as my T suggested and repeat always the same thing, like a broken record... .

Then, if I see that I am not able to do that, I may go NC.

But the thing here is really about us, not about them... .

[fromheeltoheal]

Hey Isa-

But the thing here is really about us, not about them... .

Yes it is.  Which feels weird when we've been in a long-term relationship with someone who is all about themselves.  Selfishness is your friend right now.

So this has been going on for a while, and I know your kids are friends, but this can be valuable, to look at why you continue to have versions of the same conversation with him.  I know there's fear there, not knowing how he will react, and I know the police have been involved at least once, and what else is there?  What part of you still enjoys the interaction, if any?  It's pretty easy to have your email software delete emails from specific addresses when they arrive, so not getting any emails anymore is easy technologically, but what would that mean?

[bus boy]

Hi isa_lala. Separating in any situation is tough, especially where children are involved. I'm my case, and this is my experience, what I found worked for me. I gave good years of my life to make things work. Relationship wise ( before I knew what a pd was). Friendship and good coparenting wise and none worked. We are just a source for them to suck dry. It's not easy , they don't want to be your friend. Until I went NC it was emotional hell, now I have more positive energy. Ex BPD tries to knock me off balance bc I use to react and respond to everything. She doesn't ask anything personal any more but she is knocking my access bc that is the last thread of control she has over me or I should say had over me. In the past I let her control my access to s9. Beware of the nice BPD. They are not nice, they can't help them self, they are mentally ill. Do all contact by text or email so you have a written log of events, keep answers very short and to the point, don't respond to texts that are hurtful or meant to get a reaction, do not defend your self. Take the advice you get on this board and figure out what works best for you.

[Isa_lala]

Hey Isa-

But the thing here is really about us, not about them... .

Yes it is.  Which feels weird when we've been in a long-term relationship with someone who is all about themselves.  Selfishness is your friend right now.

So this has been going on for a while, and I know your kids are friends, but this can be valuable, to look at why you continue to have versions of the same conversation with him.  I know there's fear there, not knowing how he will react, and I know the police have been involved at least once, and what else is there?  What part of you still enjoys the interaction, if any?  It's pretty easy to have your email software delete emails from specific addresses when they arrive, so not getting any emails anymore is easy technologically, but what would that mean?

Hello.

Yes, i do know that having the same conversations with him on the same topic, trying to make my point, is not worth it. It happens some time that I am writing an email and I finish by deleting it because I know that it is not worth the time I put in writing it.

He still wants to have sex with me... .He is obsessed by that. So we talked yesterday a few times about that and of course all the good arguments I had didn't go through. He is too obsessed with his thoughts to even listening to my points.

So now, I will try to answer in a monosyllabic way and use the advice I found in the link I posted here... .

For the emails he sends me, they directly go into a folder. I haven't not deleted them in case I would have to show that to the police.

And you are right I don't enjoy any of the interactions with him. I could if I knew that he got over me and that he is not wanting anything from me but just see each other with the kids.

[Isa_lala]

Hi isa_lala. Separating in any situation is tough, especially where children are involved. I'm my case, and this is my experience, what I found worked for me. I gave good years of my life to make things work. Relationship wise ( before I knew what a pd was). Friendship and good coparenting wise and none worked. We are just a source for them to suck dry. It's not easy , they don't want to be your friend. Until I went NC it was emotional hell, now I have more positive energy. Ex BPD tries to knock me off balance bc I use to react and respond to everything. She doesn't ask anything personal any more but she is knocking my access bc that is the last thread of control she has over me or I should say had over me. In the past I let her control my access to s9. Beware of the nice BPD. They are not nice, they can't help them self, they are mentally ill. Do all contact by text or email so you have a written log of events, keep answers very short and to the point, don't respond to texts that are hurtful or meant to get a reaction, do not defend your self. Take the advice you get on this board and figure out what works best for you.

That is good advice. If I answer some emails, I try to never answer to the one that are hurting or not nice and I try to respond to practical questions that need to be answered

I try to not give any information on me.

I will have to deal with his insistence ... .But when I see that it takes too much nerdy from me, I just lock all the communication means and focus my energy on me and my son.

[bus boy]

My ex BPD wife called yesterday, I only answered bc I thought it was s9. She started about changing my access to s9. I took the control away from her so she it squirming hard trying to figure how to get it back. I listened politely, she kept on, than she started pushing for a commitment to change access, I brought he back to the origional question, very short, to the point, she kept pushing me to get me talking so she could start twisting my words, get me reacting, get me defending my self, knock me off balance, again I brought her to the origional question, it held her accountable for her actions, she wasn't passing her negative feelings on to me. She started raising her voice, I said, I gave you my answer, thanked her and hung up. As I took the phone away from my ear to hit the end button, I could hear her raging. I use to let her get in my head and twist my words around, she would have me going in circles. They don't call to converse, they call to drain, pass on there toxic poison, they could care less if you fell off the face of the earth. Keep the BPD out of your head.

[Isa_lala]

My ex BPD wife called yesterday, I only answered bc I thought it was s9. She started about changing my access to s9. I took the control away from her so she it squirming hard trying to figure how to get it back. I listened politely, she kept on, than she started pushing for a commitment to change access, I brought he back to the origional question, very short, to the point, she kept pushing me to get me talking so she could start twisting my words, get me reacting, get me defending my self, knock me off balance, again I brought her to the origional question, it held her accountable for her actions, she wasn't passing her negative feelings on to me. She started raising her voice, I said, I gave you my answer, thanked her and hung up. As I took the phone away from my ear to hit the end button, I could hear her raging. I use to let her get in my head and twist my words around, she would have me going in circles. They don't call to converse, they call to drain, pass on there toxic poison, they could care less if you fell off the face of the earth. Keep the BPD out of your head.

Sorry to read that

But I least you know her by heart and know how to react

Same here

I strongly try to not be caught in his attempt to have me answer him (by text messages or emails)

I know what you mean when they try to make us talk just to twist our words... .In their advantage

Sick