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How to communicate after a contentious divorce... Following a contentious divorce and custody battle, there are often high emotion and tensions between the parents. Research shows that constant and chronic conflict between the parents negatively impacts the children. The children sense their parents anxiety in their voice, their body language and their parents behavior. Here are some suggestions from Dean Stacer on how to avoid conflict.
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Author Topic: She admitted she wants me back  (Read 9709 times)
CloseToFreedom
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« on: May 20, 2016, 08:31:44 AM »

I never would have thought it would've come to this. I thought I was painted black forever. Well, guess not. Let this be a lesson for everyone: they can always come back. The difference is what you do with it.

So 1,5 year ago we split up after 5 years in an on/off relationship, even living together. This time it was for good, and a month after she already had a new boyfriend. I got into a depression, sitting at home (downtime from work) for a few months, anti depressives, you name it. During spring last year I started to recover and during last year I made progress in every facet of my live: going to the gym regulary to work on my body (and mind!), creating a big group of friends for social interaction, enjoying ME-time, not feeling co-dependant anymore, and picking up work again.

In the 1,5 years that we've been seperated, I've learned to be independent (which was well needed as I'm already around 30 years old), I've learned to create hobbies, I've learned to be true to myself and do things I want to do. I've gained so much friends and a new appreciation of life and the peace that comes with not living with a BPD or toxic person. Aren't I lonely, longing for a partner? Sure, sometimes. I have dated and had a few flings but they all ended up not feeling quite right, so why continue with them? By being true to myself I've been much more careful in whom I start a relationship with. And I still have time, so there is no pressure.

So, to the meat of this story: the first few months when I tried to contact her, there was only hatred, I was painted blacker than black. Then during the summer, she slowly started contacting me every now and then. This continued (like, once a month or even once in two months) until the beginning of this year, when she send me an e-mail admitting her own mistakes in the relationship and telling me that she changed herself. After a year of working through my trauma's it was shocking and quite unbelievable to read this. I wondered if it was to recycle. Members on this board seemed to think it was. Which led me to asking why she contacted me and if she was interested in recycling (though not admitting I wanted that - I don't even think I wanted that). Her answer was, of course, no. She was happy with my replacement (she was already living with him, bought a house together). She just wanted to tell me that the problems in the relationship were partly her fault. It was a 'last thing' to get off her chest.

Well, guess not. Since that e-mail she has been chatting on a phone chat program about every month or so. Yesterday she asked if there was a chance we would ever get back together. I asked why. Which led her to tell me that she actually wasn't happy in her relationship. She is very unhappy and she says she's pretty much certain her current relationship will end. And that she sometimes thinks about getting back with me, if such a thing was possible. And that she has learned a lot and would appreciate a lot more of all the things I did in the relationship now that she has learned. Like, a newfound appreciated for my personality and the things I did for her, now that she's had some distance.

I guess it won't surprise you that this stuff has my head spinning. Never in the year and a half that we're seperated, I would have expected her feelings for me to be put so bluntly. It's also the very first time I have to think about terms like 'triangling' (she of course still is with her boyfriend, unhappy or not) and true ' recycling'. Its an entirely different situation than I used to be in... .and not, in a way. Because I can just choose to let it be. I have this information now, I know (or at least she said) that she is unhappy and she sometimes wants me back. I can just choose to leave it at that, to be kind when she chats, but to do nothing with it. It is my choice. I have to start planning some time in the coming weeks to really think back about the relationship, to also remember all the pain I had during those years, the way it eroded my personality, my social life and even my health.

I won't fall head over heals in a trap she might have set, that's what I'm saying.

I would greatly appreciate any feedback from you people, perhaps experiences in the same situations. Thank you in advance.
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Hadlee
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« Reply #1 on: May 20, 2016, 08:45:53 AM »

Reading that says to me that they don't grieve the loss of a relationship at the time, it happens further down the track.  I've read a number of stories/articles that say they grieve in reverse, the loss hits them a lot later than it does for us nons.  I guess it makes sense because that's when they come back.  The next person they get into a relationship with distracts them from the previous one, and their own pain, but eventually it's not enough and things come to the surface.

And of course, I'm not talking about all pwBPD as some don't come back at all.

Goddamn, BPD is sad!

I can understand, how after all this time, her coming back has made your head spin.  Be strong and take of yourself     
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« Reply #2 on: May 20, 2016, 08:47:29 AM »

A question to ask yourself.  What makes you think if she were to come back to you she wouldn't be doing the exact same thing she is doing here with you with the guy she is with now in a year or two?
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CloseToFreedom
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« Reply #3 on: May 20, 2016, 08:50:48 AM »

Reading that says to me that they don't grieve the loss of a relationship at the time, it happens further down the track.  I've read a number of stories/articles that say they grieve in reverse, the loss hits them a lot later than it does for us nons.  I guess it makes sense because that's when the come back.  The next person they get into a relationship with distracts them from the previous one, and their own pain, but eventually it's not enough and things come to the surface.

Goddamn, BPD is sad!

I can understand, how after all this time, her coming back has made your head spin.  Be strong and take of yourself     

Exactly! Its like, they grieve after a LONG while and then they see that their actions were wrong (well, perhaps they see it that way... .). And to ease the pain they go to the next victim so the pain dissapears, until that wears off.

You say be strong, but what do you mean with that? Like, take care of myself? I most definitely will, I've learned to do that in the past year and a half. Or do you mean, stay the hell away? It was my first thought as well, but when you're in the midst of it, it's very difficult to keep telling yourself that without at least putting the pro's and con's next to each other.


A question to ask yourself.  What makes you think if she were to come back to you she wouldn't be doing the exact same thing she is doing here with you with the guy she is with now in a year or two?

Yes, this is one of my fears. What if a few years (or even months) down the line, she gets uneasy again and leaves me for another. I mean, she's done it with me, she is planning to do it with him, so what is she doing to make me believe she won't do it again? Absolutely nothing, well, except for telling me that she learned that I was the right one for her. I do admid I treated her like a freaking princess most of the time, I bet its hard to beat that for other guys. But its also not something that is sustainable for me. I need to have my own life, even if Im in a relationship with someone.


One thing's for sure... .if I survive this, I can change my name to Freedom
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Hadlee
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« Reply #4 on: May 20, 2016, 09:02:04 AM »

You say be strong, but what do you mean with that? Like, take care of myself? I most definitely will, I've learned to do that in the past year and a half. Or do you mean, stay the hell away? It was my first thought as well, but when you're in the midst of it, it's very difficult to keep telling yourself that without at least putting the pro's and con's next to each other.

In staying strong, I mean try not to let this mess with your head too much.  Keeping a clear mind helps in these situations.  It's so, so hard though!

I've been out quite a while, and I am mentally strong, however I would think getting contact like you have would rock me slightly. 

Again, with taking care of yourself, it's about not getting caught up in FOG.  It's important to look at the big picture.  Sounds like you have done some awesome work on yourself in the last year and a half.  Good for you Doing the right thing (click to insert in post)
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« Reply #5 on: May 20, 2016, 09:03:42 AM »

Yes, this is one of my fears. What if a few years (or even months) down the line, she gets uneasy again and leaves me for another. I mean, she's done it with me, she is planning to do it with him, so what is she doing to make me believe she won't do it again? Absolutely nothing, well, except for telling me that she learned that I was the right one for her. I do admid I treated her like a freaking princess most of the time, I bet its hard to beat that for other guys. But its also not something that is sustainable for me. I need to have my own life, even if Im in a relationship with someone.

Actions speak louder than words.

If there is any one thing I have learned about my ex is her words (important relationship type stuff), even with the best intentions, were not backed by her actions.   I honestly believe she wants to be the person I fell in love with but the borderline within her, her "dark side", will always overshadow and control her.  No matter how much she tries to suppress this side of her she can't and it will slowly destroy those who are closest to her.

So what has your ex done to show you she has faced her BPD and made positive change?  
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« Reply #6 on: May 20, 2016, 09:06:45 AM »

Hey Close,

About a month, two months ago (when I think we chatted on here) I would have given anything to be in your position, but now I don't envy you at all! That would leave me spinning, I hope you're managing ok and not letting it undo all of your hard work.

I'm trying to imagine what I would do in your position, and I'd be all over the place. I'd be reluctant to even acknowledge it, having successfully resisted attempts at reaching out, but there will ALWAYS be that part of me that loves her. If I was to consider it, I'd have to know the she had been having intensive therapy (which for my ex I know she is starting soon, which was actually quite great to hear). But I don't know, I'd be too scared of falling back in to that hole of walking on eggshells. It doesn't change anything that came before, or that I ended up in my own counselling because of that.

I'm taking things VERY slowly with a new girl who is great, and is something I hope develops nicely over time. BUT, if the lure of my ex came along, I don't know how I'd react. I genuinely hope you make the right choice for you.
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« Reply #7 on: May 20, 2016, 09:18:13 AM »

She "sometimes" wants to be with you, and is "unhappy" in her current relationship.

Speaking from personal experience, I think it is best for everyone if you wait for her to NOT be in another relationship before you even worry about it. That's advice I'd give anyone. It seems like she's seeing if she can jump right from him back to you. But what about her being single for a while? If she finds that unendurable, well, that tells you a lot.

That's advice I'd give anyone.

Now, if you want advice about making a r/s work with someone with BPD/traits... .maybe go hang out on the staying board for a bit and see what they have to say?
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CloseToFreedom
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« Reply #8 on: May 20, 2016, 09:43:57 AM »

In staying strong, I mean try not to let this mess with your head too much.  Keeping a clear mind helps in these situations.  It's so, so hard though!

I've been out quite a while, and I am mentally strong, however I would think getting contact like you have would rock me slightly. 

Again, with taking care of yourself, it's about not getting caught up in FOG.  It's important to look at the big picture.  Sounds like you have done some awesome work on yourself in the last year and a half.  Good for you Doing the right thing (click to insert in post)

Yes, thank you, I HAVE done a lot of work on myself and its the thing Im most afraid of - undoing all that progress.

Actions speak louder than words.

If there is any one thing I have learned about my ex is her words (important relationship type stuff), even with the best intentions, were not backed by her actions.   I honestly believe she wants to be the person I fell in love with but the borderline within her, her "dark side", will always overshadow and control her.  No matter how much she tries to suppress this side of her she can't and it will slowly destroy those who are closest to her.

So what has your ex done to show you she has faced her BPD and made positive change?  

Absolutely, you are right. She hasn't done anything that I know off. She said she worked on her issues, whatever that means, although I imagine she doesn't want to tell me exactly what that means in a chat program on the phone, but perhaps face to face if she ever gets the chance. So its too early to tell. If I even want to know.


Hey Close,

About a month, two months ago (when I think we chatted on here) I would have given anything to be in your position, but now I don't envy you at all! That would leave me spinning, I hope you're managing ok and not letting it undo all of your hard work.

I'm trying to imagine what I would do in your position, and I'd be all over the place. I'd be reluctant to even acknowledge it, having successfully resisted attempts at reaching out, but there will ALWAYS be that part of me that loves her. If I was to consider it, I'd have to know the she had been having intensive therapy (which for my ex I know she is starting soon, which was actually quite great to hear). But I don't know, I'd be too scared of falling back in to that hole of walking on eggshells. It doesn't change anything that came before, or that I ended up in my own counselling because of that.

I'm taking things VERY slowly with a new girl who is great, and is something I hope develops nicely over time. BUT, if the lure of my ex came along, I don't know how I'd react. I genuinely hope you make the right choice for you.

Thanks for your feedback and the describtion of your own situation. It's true, in the first few months I often hoped and dreamed of this situation, but it never happened. And now that I've truly moved on, it happens.
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« Reply #9 on: May 20, 2016, 10:05:50 AM »

run away.

u can use her for rodeo sex but not a relationship!

run for your life!
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« Reply #10 on: May 20, 2016, 10:25:41 AM »

Absolutely, you are right. She hasn't done anything that I know off. She said she worked on her issues, whatever that means, although I imagine she doesn't want to tell me exactly what that means in a chat program on the phone, but perhaps face to face if she ever gets the chance. So its too early to tell. If I even want to know.

I believe the action here you need to be very aware of is what she is doing behind her current boyfriends back.  Chances are good that she has damaged him to the point where he no longer validates her in the way she needs him too, the end is near, she needs to fill the void.   Now she is looking in your direction because she remembers how you validated her.   In short ... .it would appear nothing has changed.
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« Reply #11 on: May 20, 2016, 10:33:33 AM »

Common experience here is that recycles almost always fail... .and, if you are somehow able to stay in the relationship, you'll have to be well aware of the many facets of the disorder, so avoid dramas, fights, etc. (at least, up to some extent).

Anyway, your choice man... .my suggestion is to find an emotionally healthy woman Smiling (click to insert in post)
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« Reply #12 on: May 20, 2016, 10:35:06 AM »

Absolutely, you are right. She hasn't done anything that I know off. She said she worked on her issues, whatever that means, although I imagine she doesn't want to tell me exactly what that means in a chat program on the phone, but perhaps face to face if she ever gets the chance. So its too early to tell. If I even want to know.

I believe the action here you need to be very aware of is what she is doing behind her current boyfriends back.  Chances are good that she has damaged him to the point where he no longer validates her in the way she needs him too, the end is near, she needs to fill the void.   Now she is looking in your direction because she remembers how you validated her.   In short ... .it would appear nothing has changed.

I agree with c.stein here. It's classic BPD behavior to the tee.

Someone who has worked on their issues doesn't reach out to an ex while still in a relationship to see if it would be possible to get together at some point. People with BPD do that, tho. and they will always do that.

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« Reply #13 on: May 20, 2016, 10:41:29 AM »

Absolutely, you are right. She hasn't done anything that I know off. She said she worked on her issues, whatever that means, although I imagine she doesn't want to tell me exactly what that means in a chat program on the phone, but perhaps face to face if she ever gets the chance. So its too early to tell. If I even want to know.

I believe the action here you need to be very aware of is what she is doing behind her current boyfriends back.  Chances are good that she has damaged him to the point where he no longer validates her in the way she needs him too, the end is near, she needs to fill the void.   Now she is looking in your direction because she remembers how you validated her.   In short ... .it would appear nothing has changed.

Indeed, very likely her "poor" current parner is enduring exactly what CloseToFreedom endured in the past.

Now, CTF, the question for you is: do you see that nothing changed in her? Do you really want to play the game again, only to be (very likely) shot down for a  second time?  
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« Reply #14 on: May 20, 2016, 10:44:02 AM »

u can use her for rodeo sex but not a relationship!

what is she, a bull  ? is this safe or sound advice mental illness or not?

Actions speak louder than words.

and the actions here are that she is in another relationship, trying to get back in one with you. the words are worth little - youre not privy to whats actually going on in the relationship.

its all nice to hear, i imagine. its validating. nothing wrong with that. youve come quite a long way, and its understandable that this would give you major pause.

steelwork offers good advice here. she jumped in a relationship after you. shes doing it again. that doesnt demonstrate much in the way of learning and isnt a stable foundation for a relationship.

im not trying to tell you what choice to make; thats yours, and its a very personal decision. the (rhetorical) question is what has changed and what are your expectations? the Improving board can give you the skills and tools, and inform your expectations, but youve got to be willing to do the hard work, and even that is no guarantee.
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     and I think it's gonna be all right; yeah; the worst is over now; the mornin' sun is shinin' like a red rubber ball…
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« Reply #15 on: May 20, 2016, 10:58:57 AM »

... .now that she's had some distance.

I've often quoted what someone said years ago... .BPD is a disorder most evident in close relationships, the closer the relationship, the more evident it is.

With her more distant now, she may appear less abnormal.  But get close again and if she's not well along on her way to recovery (through intensive meaningful therapy applied throughout her life) then the crazy will soon resume.

Also, note that she is still in another relationship yet she is in contact with you.    Sounds like you're on the back burner, simmering on hold so she has a backup when this relationship ends.  That's common.  many disordered people jump from one relationship to the next, it's the instability.  If you let her jump to you, understand that she isn't done jumping.
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« Reply #16 on: May 20, 2016, 11:34:51 AM »

run away.

u can use her for rodeo sex but not a relationship!

run for your life!

I would recommend not to do this at all. Run away and don't look back. As others have said it is easier said than done. You are mostly healed from the pain from the past. Don't go back man honestly. Eventually you will be back to square one if you get back with her. It will hurt twice as much if she left again.
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« Reply #17 on: May 20, 2016, 12:58:21 PM »

Thank you all for the feedback folks. Some pretty intense reactions here. Which is quite logical, as it is triggering. At least it is for me. Im not stating that Im getting back at her. But I guess Im not stating that Im a 100 % sure I won't, which is where the quite justified warnings come from. You are all right when it comes down to her behaviour: her getting in touch with me while being with another person is extremely disrespectful for me, for him, hell even for herself.

Like I said, I will keep the contact low and try to think things through very carefully. I am in no way ready to go to the undecided forum. I am living a life without a BPD and have been for 1,5 years now and proud of myself. Giving that up feels like a gigantic waste of time. And I never ever want to get back to the headspace of a year ago. I am glad I survived that and ended up stronger from it. Its just that the lure is strong, almost siren like, as many of you will probably recognise, and talking and hearing about it here definitely helps. So thanks.
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« Reply #18 on: May 20, 2016, 01:13:31 PM »

BPD or not, people make mistakes. People sometimes see the errors of their ways.

Sometimes it takes another 'failed' relationship to see what worked.

That is me putting the silver lining on all things.

The real question you have to ask yourself, suppose she gave it all up to be with you--what do you want your 2nd attempt at the relationship to look like?

Spend 10 minutes thinking about this. The conversations you two will have. The life you will grow and nurture. The ways you two handle conflict.

Think really hard what you want a relationship to look like for you.

Do you think this person can provide the relationship you imagine?

Make sure you understand what you will get out of this and if you are okay with it then go for it.

Also realize if you have 'grown' and have changed the way you interact with her (on a more healthy level) she may not find it alluring.

She may be looking for the same dynamics as before.
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« Reply #19 on: May 20, 2016, 01:34:26 PM »

Also realize if you have 'grown' and have changed the way you interact with her (on a more healthy level) she may not find it alluring.

She may be looking for the same dynamics as before.

Interesting point.  One of our early moderators and a prolific poster made a similar observation.

Another thought... .   It has been commented in years past, I recall a longtime member, JoannaK, would put this observation out there... .

Some think that if only their spouse would get help (and us as well of course) and make real progress toward recovery then the relationship would be fixed.  However, if the spouse would change that much, even though improved, consider that one or the other may not want to stay married.  At least one and probably both would be changed.  There are no guarantees that eventual recovery would restore the relationship.

I say this since you've been separated for a while and she has a boyfriend, two significant steps.  Ponder that (1) recovery and (2) returning to you are two very iffy and separate things.  Getting one does not mean you get both.  Just saying.

Also, be aware that your prior relationship with her didn't result in children.  If you get back with her and have children, that really upsets the apple cart.  Having children is a huge complication when acting-out disorders are involved, the dynamics are quite different, there are parenting obligations rather than an "at will" relationship.  And you can't walk away, you're connected to some extent for a couple decades at least, even if not together.
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« Reply #20 on: May 20, 2016, 01:39:19 PM »

You are all right when it comes down to her behaviour: her getting in touch with me while being with another person is extremely disrespectful for me, for him, hell even for herself.

Contact isn't necessarily disrespectful, but what she is expressing to you is IMO.


And I never ever want to get back to the headspace of a year ago. I am glad I survived that and ended up stronger from it. Its just that the lure is strong, almost siren like, as many of you will probably recognise, and talking and hearing about it here definitely helps. So thanks.

I completely understand the lure, the hope that maybe, just maybe, she can be the person you fell in love with.   I know that is what I sometimes think, all too often if I am being totally honest with myself.  Then I remind myself of what I highlighted above and of what she did.  

As hard as it is at times to reconnect with those feelings, when I can manage to do it I know without hesitation I never ever want to be back in that place again.  My achilles heal is I tend to believe in the best of people and am generally forgiving and understanding person.  This part of me is like candy to a pwBPD.  What I need to be more aware of in the future is to not allow someone to take advantage of me because of this and when it happens to actually recognize it for what it is and put a stop to it (unlike what I did with my ex).
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« Reply #21 on: May 20, 2016, 02:17:35 PM »

What I read from the original post is this woman doesn't have any independent identify,  she's with you,  then immediately with someone else,  now wants to jump back in with you.  She's just bouncing around to new sources of supply before doing any self reflection alone.  If she can't be alone,  she certainly can't stay with you,  if that makes sense.
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« Reply #22 on: May 20, 2016, 02:40:38 PM »

Along with her being with someone else, I would also be worried about being painted black. Even if it's just one time.

In my opinion, to be painted black, means her realizing that you are on to her disorder. She might admit that she has to work on some things, but I believe that she knows that you know her to well, and this scares the living heck out of her. So she lets time pass by, seeing if you will do anything about it, or see if you're still willing to maintain contact with her. After that, you become a challenge to her, and a major ego boost if she could reel you back in. This is where the fun for her starts.

Once she has you hooked, she'll make you pay for figuring her out. Her mission will be to destroy you. Ultimately, she will flip the table, and make you out to be the defective person in this relationship. Just so she can say, I don't want you, I never did. Being painted black and recycled is never a good thing. That's just my opinion.
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« Reply #23 on: May 20, 2016, 11:50:04 PM »

Aren't I lonely, longing for a partner? 

I suggest that you listen to "Ain't That Lonely Yet" by Dwight Yoakam on Youtube.

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« Reply #24 on: May 21, 2016, 12:57:58 AM »

Let me say this ... .RUN! Why would you even think about possibly wanting to let her back in? They Do NOT CHANGE! Unless they go to therapy and stick with it. My ex became this at 14 yo and I had no idea what BPD was. Came back 26 years later and told me all this bull $hit how she still loves me blah blah cough! Then after a hellish 2 months of What the heck is going on she discarded me without a care in the world and on top of that Told me she Never loved me. Ouch! So why would you possibly think that your ex will change with you? Never mind that look at the poor guy she bought the house with? Her other victim? Boy I wonder what hell she is putting him in now? I feel that when they start to devalue us there is a warm body waiting for them on the other end of that. Weather it be a recycle from their past or a new victim. It's got a heartbeat. Run ... .Unless you want you heart handed back to you this time charcoaled.
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« Reply #25 on: May 22, 2016, 06:00:14 AM »

Thanks for the feedback everyone. I'll try to just let this be more proof of that I made the right choice and that I, while certainly anything but perfect, WAS indeed a good person and someone who can be valuable in a relationship. Not that I need my ex to validate me, but still, it doesn't hurt to know that I was apparently doing things right. I won't be giving her the chance of breaking every gain I've made down again.

Stay strong everyone!
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« Reply #26 on: May 22, 2016, 11:39:10 AM »

I don't know your back story or how your r/s ended (did she lie? did she cheat? did she breach your trust in any other way that feels irreparable?) but I have sometimes considered how I would respond in the same situation.

This is what I think: I loved my ex very much but she is mentally ill. It will be years and years before she is capable of a healthy, intimate r/s (if ever). If she said something like this to me, I wouldn't see it as manipulative, I would see it as true in the moment. She might feel it and believe it as she's saying it, but there's no guarantee that her feelings about us wouldn't change to something completely different a week later.

So I wouldn't trust it.

I've changed a lot in the two years since we've been broken up, as well. Now I want much more in a r/s and I know I wouldn't be satisfied going back to her - even though I have residual feelings.
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« Reply #27 on: May 22, 2016, 12:05:04 PM »

Aren't I lonely, longing for a partner?  

I suggest that you listen to "Ain't That Lonely Yet" by Dwight Yoakam on Youtube.

       https://youtu.be/8EOG7UWcThQ    

LOL, This is true... .I don't like the idea of using anybody, especially when we all feel used here to begin with. The thought that they all come back has yet to be seen. Some say theirs have never come back. I just don't know... .What we do, if they do is what matters. They need to be encouraged to get therapy and stick with it. They didn't do it then and they will not do it until they hit a "rock bottom" with relationships. I would make sure that they know it is not cool to sneak behind anyones back to be involved with someone else... .it brings you to a whole other level of tests and manipulation. Think about it. It would be different if they were alone, saying they have done the work to change and really and truly repent of their ways and miss you and feel they made a huge mistake. That isn't what we seem to get with these recycle attempts. I even talked to an old friend whose wife died that I had dated 15 years ago... .he said he changed. I had thought he might have after going through all of that. No, another friend of a friend went out with him and I heard he is no different. I suppose they say the more we change, the more we stay the same. I can absolutely say that for myself- I am not the person I was 10 years ago, not even one year ago! You have to do the work!
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« Reply #28 on: May 23, 2016, 06:50:13 AM »

I don't know your back story or how your r/s ended (did she lie? did she cheat? did she breach your trust in any other way that feels irreparable?) but I have sometimes considered how I would respond in the same situation.

This is what I think: I loved my ex very much but she is mentally ill. It will be years and years before she is capable of a healthy, intimate r/s (if ever). If she said something like this to me, I wouldn't see it as manipulative, I would see it as true in the moment. She might feel it and believe it as she's saying it, but there's no guarantee that her feelings about us wouldn't change to something completely different a week later.

So I wouldn't trust it.

I've changed a lot in the two years since we've been broken up, as well. Now I want much more in a r/s and I know I wouldn't be satisfied going back to her - even though I have residual feelings.

As far as I know there never was cheating involved. We were incredibly close so I doubt it ever happened, but you never know for sure of course, especially not with BPD (or whatever she is... .she's undiagnosed at least, well at the time). We broke off because we were seperated for 10 times or something in five years already. In 2013 we had a fantastic year with no break ups, but in 2014 we moved in together and then the problems started again. Lots of arguments, break ups, just a very unhappy vibe. Me dreading going home from work to see the dissatisfied look on her face when I got home, she unhappy because I was distancing myself more and more because of the ___ty relationship... .it was just an unhappy place to be in. Big problem for her was that she seemed to think I wasn't listening to her problems enough (I was listening, but I often just couldn't understand them). Big problem for me was that I never felt appreciated anymore. I did so much for her, tried to make her feel like a woman, a princess even, by taking her out, taking her out to dinner, vacations, jewelry, you name it. But also in the household, trying to help. She didn't appreciate anything anymore, or at least didn't show it.

So I guess that's why one of the things she said last week was that if we would get back together, she would appreciated everything so much more, now that she's had it way worse with the other guy.

It's easy to say stuff like that. But to mean it is a whole different story. Who knows if she means it, if she just means it in this moment, or if she says it to attract me again. You never truly know.
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« Reply #29 on: May 23, 2016, 12:42:03 PM »

So I guess that's why one of the things she said last week was that if we would get back together, she would appreciated everything so much more, now that she's had it way worse with the other guy.

It's easy to say stuff like that. But to mean it is a whole different story. Who knows if she means it, if she just means it in this moment, or if she says it to attract me again. You never truly know.

Right... .my guess is that her current boyfriend is trying his best to make her happy and feels completely unappreciated.

While she may not have breached your trust when you were in a r/s with her (mine did, which is another reason why I would never recycle), her behavior now (contacting an old boyfriend and putting out "feelers" while living with a new boyfriend) reveals a lack of character. Are you really sure she wasn't doing the same thing during the worst parts of your r/s? It seems more likely that she did - people are who they are, and do what they do. Repeatedly

This whole situation feels... .troubling, to be honest. I'd think very carefully about how deep you want to go with her. pwBPD require YEARS of therapy to be in a successful r/s.

The one thing I learned (the hard way) in my r/s: words are easy. Anyone can say anything. When words and actions align, then the person is probably someone trustworthy. When words and actions don't align, watch out.

Her words and her actions don't align. She misses you, she would appreciate you if she had another chance, this new guy treats her poorly... .but yet they're still sharing a bed and a life together.

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« Reply #30 on: May 23, 2016, 01:09:38 PM »

This is what I think: I loved my ex very much but she is mentally ill. It will be years and years before she is capable of a healthy, intimate r/s (if ever). If she said something like this to me, I wouldn't see it as manipulative, I would see it as true in the moment. She might feel it and believe it as she's saying it, but there's no guarantee that her feelings about us wouldn't change to something completely different a week later.  So I wouldn't trust it.

I'm only a few months out, but this is exactly where my head is at the moment (though with my undulating stages of grief, wait a few hours and I'll be in a different place.  SO MUCH FUN!).

After she left wifey dropped tons of hints that she was ambivalent about her decision, but dropped even more hints that we are really, truly, honestly, over and done with.  She could call in three months saying she had made a huge mistake, but it would take a sea change in behavior for our relationship to work.  Then again:

This whole situation feels... .troubling, to be honest. I'd think very carefully about how deep you want to go with her. pwBPD require YEARS of therapy to be in a successful r/s.   The one thing I learned (the hard way) in my r/s: words are easy. Anyone can say anything. When words and actions align, then the person is probably someone trustworthy. When words and actions don't align, watch out.  Her words and her actions don't align. She misses you, she would appreciate you if she had another chance, this new guy treats her poorly... .but yet they're still sharing a bed and a life together.

I can't tell you how close to home this quote hits.  My wife would tell me fifty times a day that she loved me: by text, by email, calling me at work several times a day, telling me at every commercial break (literally), telling me any time she'd leave a room, telling me ALL. THE.  TIME.  Our last fight, I asked her to tell me the last thing she had done to show me she loved me.  She blanked.  I blanked.  I could recite a list as long as my arm of things I had done as demonstrations of my love and devotion to her, as could she, but she came up empty when it came to what she was doing to show me she loved me.  No problem telling me she loved me.  No actionable intelligence to suggest it was true.

If I had a dollar for every time my wife told me she loved me in 2016 I could go on a pretty nice vacation.  If I had $100 for every time my wife showed me she loved me in 2016 I would have zero dollars.  These are not the sour grapes of a jilted husband; this is a situation where quite literally I asked my wife point blank and she was speechless.  Show me.

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« Reply #31 on: May 23, 2016, 01:17:47 PM »

A typical but distorted perspective of pwBPD is that ended and ending relationships are perceived as abusive ones.  Seems like despite her moving on quickly to another relationship, in her mind she had you simmering on the back burner so that when that one was failing she could invite you back again.

However, nothing really has changed.  Any proclaimed insights won't last unless she has been in intensive therapy and been diligently applying it in her life and perceptions.

The one thing I learned (the hard way) in my r/s: words are easy. Anyone can say anything. When words and actions align, then the person is probably someone trustworthy. When words and actions don't align, watch out.

Promises are so easy to make, only actions over time and be trusted.

Without successful therapy over years on her part — and solid boundaries on your part — then if you allow her back into your life, you will be recycled and eventually spit out yet again.

I wish it weren't so but that's the reality.
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« Reply #32 on: May 26, 2016, 03:51:04 PM »

After 1 week of contact I went no contact again. We were chatting every day, she was mostly talking about stuff from the old days, memories, she probably knew that had an impact on me. To me, the conversations felt flirty. However, not even once did the concersation go the way of her talking about being unhappy in her relationship or leaving the guy, like she said when she initiated contact. I never brought it up, as I wanted to see if she would talk about it on her own.

I politely told her today that I didnt felt comfortable with this situation, us talking while she was with someone else. That I hoped she would understand and that who knows, perhaps in a different living situation someday we might have contact again.

She responded very short and emotionless. That she can decide for herself who she talks to. Of course, I wasnt talking about what she could and couldnt do, I was talking about my own boundaries. She gave me a virtual thumbs up and that was that.

I guess she doesnt like it one bit, as ive seen her reply so emotionless when things dont go her way, but that is not my problem. I have to have boundaries. I started to develop some feelings again already. Its bad enough to have that with a BPD ex, but even worse to have for someone that still is in a relationship.

I am convinced Ive made the right choice, but of course the sack of stones in my stomach try to convince me otherwise. Something tells me I havent heard the last from her, but at least Ive made clear my boundaries and shot down any chance for a triangulation. Im worth more than that!
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« Reply #33 on: May 26, 2016, 04:28:01 PM »

Not only does it sound like you made the right choice, but you took your leave with graciousness and sensitivity. There ought to be more like you.
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« Reply #34 on: May 26, 2016, 04:37:53 PM »

Not only does it sound like you made the right choice, but you took your leave with graciousness and sensitivity. There ought to be more like you.

Thank you so much for the compliment! But I have to note that I was not always like this, Ive made years and years of mistakes with her because of my weak boundaries and thoughts of not wanting to be alone. Its incredible how five years in a toxic, on and off relationship can destroy you. But in the past 1,5 year without her Ive rebuilt myself and stronger than ever. So thats at least one gift to take out of these relationships, even though we have to go (and sometimes still have to go) through hell to get there.

Im not a religious man but Ik praying tonight to stay strong, to keep holding on to my choice and for her to respect my choice. I seriously don't know if I can resist if she brings out bigger guns to tempt me. Oh well, one day a time.
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« Reply #35 on: May 26, 2016, 08:15:05 PM »

Not only does it sound like you made the right choice, but you took your leave with graciousness and sensitivity. There ought to be more like you.

Thank you so much for the compliment! But I have to note that I was not always like this, Ive made years and years of mistakes with her because of my weak boundaries and thoughts of not wanting to be alone. Its incredible how five years in a toxic, on and off relationship can destroy you. But in the past 1,5 year without her Ive rebuilt myself and stronger than ever. So thats at least one gift to take out of these relationships, even though we have to go (and sometimes still have to go) through hell to get there.

Im not a religious man but Ik praying tonight to stay strong, to keep holding on to my choice and for her to respect my choice. I seriously don't know if I can resist if she brings out bigger guns to tempt me. Oh well, one day a time.

CloseToFreedom, hang in there man. I wish I had half the strength and insight that you've shown when I was dealing with pretty much the same situation as you're dealing with now. It seems like she loves the attention, even craves it from any man, especially one that she's been intimate with, and is keeping his distance. I think it's the chase they enjoy most. Getting you to come back, when she knows you've worked so hard to keep your distance.

Speaking from experience, I gave in ... .multiple times and the result was always the same. Got me back, had great sex, and then would try to weaken my boundaries even more by saying stuff like this.

Excerpt
She responded very short and emotionless. That she can decide for herself who she talks to. Of course, I wasn't talking about what she could and couldn't do, I was talking about my own boundaries. She gave me a virtual thumbs up and that was that.

She tried to get me to give into her completely, by saying that No one tells her what to do, and demanded that I accept her as she is. This was followed by her ''punishing me'' by doing the very things I told her I didn't like (flirting with other guys, lying, being bossy) I can't prove it, cause we never lived together (Thank God) and I wasn't with her 24 hours a day, but I know she cheated on me multiple times.

Typical pattern would end with her devaluing me when I refused to accept her behavior. She would discard me to be with someone else, and ultimately draw me back in when she sensed I was detaching.

Stay strong, you deserve better.
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« Reply #36 on: May 27, 2016, 08:02:08 AM »

I am convinced Ive made the right choice, but of course the sack of stones in my stomach try to convince me otherwise. Something tells me I havent heard the last from her, but at least Ive made clear my boundaries and shot down any chance for a triangulation. Im worth more than that!

Very mature and self-aware response to the situation CtF.   Doing the right thing (click to insert in post)

I know how hard it must have been to set that boundary but it was one that needed to be set.   Her response should show you that nothing has changed with her.  It is all about her and has nothing to do with you.  The strength and maturity of your decision and how you enforced your boundary is commendable.  You have taken a huge personal step forward here.  Stay strong and believe in yourself.   Smiling (click to insert in post)

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« Reply #37 on: May 27, 2016, 09:40:04 AM »

I politely told her today that I didn't feel comfortable with this situation, us talking while she was with someone else... .  She responded very short and emotionless. That she can decide for herself who she talks to.

So she doesn't have that perspective, that she ought to have respect for her current BF.

Of course, I wasn't talking about what she could and couldn't do, I was talking about my own boundaries.

That's a key insight.  Boundaries are for you.  You've learned you can't make boundaries for others, particularly her.  The only person you can have control over, and rightfully so, is yourself.  And since you don't share children with her then you can also control whatever contact you do (or don't!) have with her.
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« Reply #38 on: May 27, 2016, 12:22:51 PM »

Hi CTF,

You've received a tremendous amount of feedback here both positive and some that has been triggered by negative memories. I've read your responses & you seem to be a very strong minded person, but it took a lot of work & time to get there after your break up with your BPD.

BPD is a Very Serious Cluster B Mental Illness that has it's origins in genetically altered brain passed down from a parent. Even with decades of therapy there will NEVER be a cure, but some level of "management" of the behavior.  It means that the behavior will always be there because their brain is defective.  This concept is hard for some to grasp because at the heart of most of those in the forums we want to believe, we NEED to believe they love us as much as we love them. When in reality we NEED to love ourselves.  From what I've read, you've learned to do that, another HUGE step on your path of knowledge!

You have seem to grasp this concept with taking the 1-1/2 to work on yourself. Going to the gym, working the body & mind. You're taking your time getting back into another r/s knowing that you're susceptible to the callings of someone who has BPD. This is a huge step in recognizing your own weakness in regards to this Mental Illness and in your own behavior as a NON.

You recognize you are possibly weak when it comes to your exBPD, I would argue we all were at some point and some still are. I couldn't tell you with 100% if my exBPD reached out to me, called me while she was with replacement number 2,583 if I wouldn't flirt with her that might lead to something else. I've done it before, but after my own T recognized and pointed out my behavior I actually did what you did and pointed out that I was uncomfortable of having flirty, sexual content conversations while she was still "dating" my replacement.  She tried to justify it to me as she saw things in her own thought process, but I resisted her feeble attempt and held my ground.  Her demeanor changed, & like others and you pointed out, she went distant and said good bye. Only to call me a short time later to tell me that things were over with them. In reality it wasn't.

Like others have pointed out, the replacement is probably at his wits end, mentally, physically, emotionally exhausted like we all were at that point with our own BPD r/s. He's NOT validating her as he did in the beginning and she's chumming the waters to see if you going to bite.  And if she gets a positive indications that you're available she's going to put you on the back burner as others have said until it's time to recycle you once again.

C.Stein, Makersmarkman, Steelwork among others have giving you some good insight, have giving credit to your thought process of how this is going to play out once again if YOU allow it too. You have remained strong, the temptation is certainly there, but have you retrained yourself to be strong enough to gut it out and continue down this very successful path you've chosen? 

Remember at the core is her Cluster B Mental Illness, it's never, NEVER going to get better ... .EVER.  

J
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« Reply #39 on: May 27, 2016, 12:25:33 PM »

Thank you all for the support, it really helps  

Yes it was hard to set that boundary although I anticipated more resistance, it was hard for me just like its hard for a recovering junkie to say no to the drugs laying in front of him. Knowing it is bad for you and can send you through a downwards spiral again.

Sometime in my life there MIGHT be an opening for a healthy return to each other but ONLY if I have proof she has done the work for a long time, she's single, im single and things are actually looking like changes within her personality have occured. Im more than aware that this might never happen and Im trying to make peace with that like I have been the past 1,5 years, going on wih my own life.
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« Reply #40 on: May 27, 2016, 12:30:02 PM »

Hi CTF,

You've received a tremendous amount of feedback here both positive and some that has been triggered by negative memories. I've read your responses & you seem to be a very strong minded person, but it took a lot of work & time to get there after your break up with your BPD.

BPD is a Very Serious Cluster B Mental Illness that has it's origins in genetically altered brain passed down from a parent. Even with decades of therapy there will NEVER be a cure, but some level of "management" of the behavior.  It means that the behavior will always be there because their brain is defective.  This concept is hard for some to grasp because at the heart of most of those in the forums we want to believe, we NEED to believe they love us as much as we love them. When in reality we NEED to love ourselves.  From what I've read, you've learned to do that, another HUGE step on your path of knowledge!

You have seem to grasp this concept with taking the 1-1/2 to work on yourself. Going to the gym, working the body & mind. You're taking your time getting back into another r/s knowing that you're susceptible to the callings of someone who has BPD. This is a huge step in recognizing your own weakness in regards to this Mental Illness and in your own behavior as a NON.

You recognize you are possibly weak when it comes to your exBPD, I would argue we all were at some point and some still are. I couldn't tell you with 100% if my exBPD reached out to me, called me while she was with replacement number 2,583 if I wouldn't flirt with her that might lead to something else. I've done it before, but after my own T recognized and pointed out my behavior I actually did what you did and pointed out that I was uncomfortable of having flirty, sexual content conversations while she was still "dating" my replacement.  She tried to justify it to me as she saw things in her own thought process, but I resisted her feeble attempt and held my ground.  Her demeanor changed, & like others and you pointed out, she went distant and said good bye. Only to call me a short time later to tell me that things were over with them. In reality it wasn't.

Like others have pointed out, the replacement is probably at his wits end, mentally, physically, emotionally exhausted like we all were at that point with our own BPD r/s. He's NOT validating her as he did in the beginning and she's chumming the waters to see if you going to bite.  And if she gets a positive indications that you're available she's going to put you on the back burner as others have said until it's time to recycle you once again.

C.Stein, Makersmarkman, Steelwork among others have giving you some good insight, have giving credit to your thought process of how this is going to play out once again if YOU allow it too. You have remained strong, the temptation is certainly there, but have you retrained yourself to be strong enough to gut it out and continue down this very successful path you've chosen? 

Remember at the core is her Cluster B Mental Illness, it's never, NEVER going to get better ... .EVER.

J

Thank you for your well thought out post. I am fully aware the illnes within her never truly goes away, and like I said the only chance of a future recycle hangs on the fact if she has the tools to cope with it on her own, to have the tools that wont make it effect the relationship and me so much. And that it never cures completely is ok - as triggering as it is you have to remind yourself that this unique personality is what attracted you in the first place. Its just that it isnt sustainable long term without her having obtained proper tools. Im not trying to justify her behaviour, Im stating the facts as I see them.

For now, ive absolutely made the right choice. Onwards it is!
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« Reply #41 on: May 27, 2016, 12:37:44 PM »

For now, ive absolutely made the right choice. Onwards it is!

Good Good Good.  Do not put your life on hold hoping/waiting for something that will probably never happen.  Life is too short. 
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« Reply #42 on: May 28, 2016, 10:17:15 AM »

For now, ive absolutely made the right choice. Onwards it is!

Good Good Good.  Do not put your life on hold hoping/waiting for something that will probably never happen.  Life is too short. 

I wont and I dont! You are absolutely right. Whatever happens, whatever she chooses to do, im going on with my life. If she ever contacts again we'll see then.

One thing, while talking she mentioned she got help, therapy. She was never diagnosed as BPD, its just my suspision and i never called her that (although she would call me a BPD often Laugh out loud (click to insert in post), as she studied stuff in that field... .). Anyway apprently she figured out she is highly sensitive.

It could be possible she's that and not BPD of course and I cant know for sure, much less you people, but I highly doubt thats the right diagnosis.
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« Reply #43 on: May 29, 2016, 08:52:55 AM »

She'll be back, you can count on it.

Just remember one thing, treating women like princesses is all good in theory but in reality it works better in smaller doses. I made this mistake and it was very much the biggest reason she lost interest and started acting out.

I've seen this situation with my ex as well, her current relationship is over, you can count on that. She's probably planning her exit already.

You seem to be in a pretty solid place right now. Seems like she needs you more than you need her. I'd take her back and get rid of her if she displeases me. Just my opinion.
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« Reply #44 on: May 29, 2016, 09:29:05 AM »

She'll be back, you can count on it.

Just remember one thing, treating women like princesses is all good in theory but in reality it works better in smaller doses. I made this mistake and it was very much the biggest reason she lost interest and started acting out.

I've seen this situation with my ex as well, her current relationship is over, you can count on that. She's probably planning her exit already.

You seem to be in a pretty solid place right now. Seems like she needs you more than you need her. I'd take her back and get rid of her if she displeases me. Just my opinion.

Fine and dandy but it doesn't matter in how much of a good place you are, these people have a way to get to you and destroy what's inside you. Yes I feel strong right now, but if I'd get back with her I'd be afraid of losing all the progress slowly but surely.

Anyway, haven't heard from her since I told her this wasn't going to fly while she was in a relationship last wednesday. So at least she respects that boundary. For now. I don't know if she's really planning to end the relationship even if she more or less said so, it could also be she was just testing the water to see how I'd react. Or me saying I dont want contact while she's in a relationship perhaps has accelerated the process. Who knows. No point in pondering about it.
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« Reply #45 on: May 29, 2016, 09:33:10 AM »

Monkey Bars.
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« Reply #46 on: May 29, 2016, 09:36:54 AM »

Monkey Bars.

I had to look that up hahaha. But probably yes
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« Reply #47 on: May 31, 2016, 04:19:05 AM »

Well that didn't take long.

Received a text this morning "I miss talking to you"

sight... .would blocking be the way to go then? I feel bad about doing that, kinda.
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« Reply #48 on: May 31, 2016, 04:32:32 AM »

Do you want her back?
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« Reply #49 on: May 31, 2016, 04:36:40 AM »

sight... .would blocking be the way to go then? I feel bad about doing that, kinda.

it really depends on what you want to do, and how it effects you emotionally when she reaches out. blocking her could cause her to escalate. frankly, so could replying or ignoring. so i think your wants and needs are paramount here. you have options.

if her reaching out upsets you, tempts you, otherwise keeps you stuck, blocking her can be a tool for your own emotional protection. is there an option to block the receipt of her texts without her knowing?

not replying is another option. you stated your boundary. you were quite clear. "i miss talking to you" can frankly be interpreted as a demand, one for which no reply is necessary. should you go the route of ignoring/not replying, there may be a followup(s), or not. it could consist of pleading, or attacking, or both, and likely burn out relatively quickly if you continue to not respond. how might this effect you emotionally?

replying reneges on your boundary, and communicates that it might as well not exist. it might be tempting to reply with something like "i miss talking to you too, but i already stated my boundary". thats redundant and opens the line for debate. i think if you were inclined to reply (it doesnt sound like you are), id wait until she says or does something more substantive to reply to.

edit: even that is a risky strategy and communicates all she has to do is keep at it or find the right thing to say, and youll reply.

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« Reply #50 on: May 31, 2016, 06:58:38 AM »

Well that didn't take long.

Received a text this morning "I miss talking to you"

sight... .would blocking be the way to go then? I feel bad about doing that, kinda.

She's reaching for that next bar on the monkey bars CTF, or in this case she's reaching for the bar behind her.  There is nothing good about this scenario.

I understand your hesitancy to block.  As many of us know, when the ex goes silent after we have been thrown away it hurts bad ... .really bad.  As much as NC may be a tool to use for our healing it is also a weapon, unintentional or not.  It hurts to be shut out like you don't exist regardless of the reasons.

Whatever you do here it needs to be done with your eyes wide open and if you choose to respond your words chosen very carefully.
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« Reply #51 on: May 31, 2016, 07:54:32 AM »

I've tried to engage with my eyes open. I saw nothing good coming out of either replying or not replying/blocking, so I just chose what I felt like I should do, I replied. I told her that I already explained my boundary/thoughts on the situation. What the future holds for us I can't predict (as I'm REALLY not sure what I want, bAlex... .really, I don't know if I'd even want her back), and that I don't feel comfortable with the situation of us talking about this stuff until she is single. I didn't tell her these things just now, as I told them the last time, no use in repeating myself. I followed it up with that perhaps its best for her to really think about how she feels about her own situation, as well as what she is hoping to get from me / what she thinks of me. To really think hard about that, instead of constantly trying to get into contact. Maybe its my sane mind thinking its just logical to think things through before you make any life changing choices.

In reply she basically told me she already thought things through for a good while and she knows what she thinks of her current situation and of me. Which is basically her reinforcing what she said last time, she is unhappy with her current partner and misses me (of course, how BPD really experience this is beyond anyone's guess). That she has even talked to her mother about it already. So that last thing tells me something, because my god did her mother hate the fact that we were both so unhappy in the relationship and I bet even hearing my name made her stressed out. She wanted nothing more than us just leaving each other alone. Which I can understand. So that she talks about it with her mother (if its true) at least tells me she is serious about it, because it must be a pain in the ass to talk about the situation. Anyway, she says she already thought long and hard about it, but that these things take some time. Time as in, to set things up to get her own place or whatever, not so much emotionally.

I can understand that, but at the same time, we were living together when we were in a relationship and she had no problem in leaving me in a heartbeat to get back to her parents when things went south. So why would it take time with this one? Well, perhaps she isn't welcome anymore at her parents house, that is an option. Anyway, thats not my problem.

So yeah, that's it. I have no idea what the future holds. I have no idea if she thinks it will be easy to get me back once she's out of her current situation, but I can tell you, it will NOT be easy. I would need a LOT of convincing to get back in that situation, and months and months of experience with the 'new her' (if that even exists) to judge if she has changed for the better. I haven't told that to her, but that's how I stand in all this. On one hand I am satisfied with my current live and the huge progress I've made, on the other hand of course Im a human, I cannot deny the pull of what I once thought was my lifepartner. But I am perfectly capable of deciding, when things would come that far, that this will not be a healthy option for me. In all fairness, that's the bigger chance of happening.

Is leaving a small window half open for your possible BPD ex for her to prove herself in the long run, a healthy option or a recype for disaster? If I stay as strong as I am now and keep her at a distance until she has proven herself enough over time, is it possible that I will be able to make the right choice further down the line? I have no idea as I've never been in this situation. It somehow feels like playing with fire.
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« Reply #52 on: May 31, 2016, 08:21:59 AM »

Anyway, she says she already thought long and hard about it, but that these things take some time. Time as in, to set things up to get her own place or whatever, not so much emotionally.

IMO this is it here.  If she does this (in bold) and can stand on her own two feet and be single for a period of time then and only then would I believe she might be sincere here.  Otherwise I see this as nothing more than her looking for an easy out of her current "unhappy" relationship.

Is leaving a small window half open for your possible BPD ex for her to prove herself in the long run, a healthy option or a recype for disaster? If I stay as strong as I am now and keep her at a distance until she has proven herself enough over time, is it possible that I will be able to make the right choice further down the line? I have no idea as I've never been in this situation. It somehow feels like playing with fire.

I don't necessarily see it as a recipe for disaster under the conditions above and that you are cracking the window with no other expectation than to be her friend at some point.  I would not under any circumstances put your life on hold for her.  If you are still single when and if she shows sincere and genuine feelings for you (i.e. not looking to use you as an out) and you can build an authentic friendship with her, then and only then would I consider rekindling a romance.
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« Reply #53 on: May 31, 2016, 09:11:56 AM »

IMO this is it here.  If she does this (in bold) and can stand on her own two feet and be single for a period of time then and only then would I believe she might be sincere here.  Otherwise I see this as nothing more than her looking for an easy out of her current "unhappy" relationship.

I don't necessarily see it as a recipe for disaster under the conditions above and that you are cracking the window with no other expectation than to be her friend at some point.  I would not under any circumstances put your life on hold for her.  If you are still single when and if she shows sincere and genuine feelings for you (i.e. not looking to use you as an out) and you can build an authentic friendship with her, then and only then would I consider rekindling a romance.

Agreed on both accounts. I want to watch things unfold from a distance to know if she can walk the walk, we all know BPD can talk the talk.

And as far as stopping life for her goes, absolutely not. I remain in a good place in my life. I go to the fitness, work is going great, my social life is fantastic. I am not stopping that and if I somehow happen to bump into someone that peaks my love interest, then good for me.
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« Reply #54 on: May 31, 2016, 09:18:33 AM »

IMO this is it here.  If she does this (in bold) and can stand on her own two feet and be single for a period of time then and only then would I believe she might be sincere here.  Otherwise I see this as nothing more than her looking for an easy out of her current "unhappy" relationship.

I don't necessarily see it as a recipe for disaster under the conditions above and that you are cracking the window with no other expectation than to be her friend at some point.  I would not under any circumstances put your life on hold for her.  If you are still single when and if she shows sincere and genuine feelings for you (i.e. not looking to use you as an out) and you can build an authentic friendship with her, then and only then would I consider rekindling a romance.

Agreed on both accounts. I want to watch things unfold from a distance to know if she can walk the walk, we all know BPD can talk the talk.

And as far as stopping life for her goes, absolutely not. I remain in a good place in my life. I go to the fitness, work is going great, my social life is fantastic. I am not stopping that and if I somehow happen to bump into someone that peaks my love interest, then good for me.

Good deal man!  Very healthy attitude.  I know how hard it is to totally let go and if I were in your shoes I may also be struggling because my ex was at least a friend ... .although given the way she ended things I should probably not believe that anymore.
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« Reply #55 on: May 31, 2016, 09:23:56 AM »

IMO this is it here.  If she does this (in bold) and can stand on her own two feet and be single for a period of time then and only then would I believe she might be sincere here.  Otherwise I see this as nothing more than her looking for an easy out of her current "unhappy" relationship.

I don't necessarily see it as a recipe for disaster under the conditions above and that you are cracking the window with no other expectation than to be her friend at some point.  I would not under any circumstances put your life on hold for her.  If you are still single when and if she shows sincere and genuine feelings for you (i.e. not looking to use you as an out) and you can build an authentic friendship with her, then and only then would I consider rekindling a romance.

Agreed on both accounts. I want to watch things unfold from a distance to know if she can walk the walk, we all know BPD can talk the talk.

And as far as stopping life for her goes, absolutely not. I remain in a good place in my life. I go to the fitness, work is going great, my social life is fantastic. I am not stopping that and if I somehow happen to bump into someone that peaks my love interest, then good for me.

You sir, have healthy boundaries. And I am jealous of this. A wise decision mate!
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« Reply #56 on: May 31, 2016, 09:31:20 AM »

Good deal man!  Very healthy attitude.  I know how hard it is to totally let go and if I were in your shoes I may also be struggling because my ex was at least a friend ... .although given the way she ended things I should probably not believe that anymore.

Yeah that's the thing, things didn't end with her and me because of cheating, because of some huge financial scam or other stuff you often read on here. Things ended because we had arguments and more arguments, and they were wearing me down. At the end of the five year relationship I was a shell of my former self, with no clear identity or own life anymore. I NEVER EVER want to get back to that. At the same time, I cannot deny the feeling of having found a 'soulmate' that people so often talk about here, one of the first clues after the break up that clued me on that she might be BPD.

I just don't want to be one of those persons that come on here or other forums that think 'oh well, THIS time she has changed' or 'oh, THIS time I know how to keep my boundaries'. I KNOW the damage they can do and the way they can penetrate your shield. I don't want to presume I know how to handle it this time. That's the thing that is keeping me at a distance and she will have to do LOTS of work to get closer to me so that I can slowly let my guard down. And chances are she won't even want to do that, and if that is the case, its end of story. Simple as that.


You sir, have healthy boundaries. And I am jealous of this. A wise decision mate!

Thank you for the feathers Ahoy but I would not say that is completely true. If I was 100 percent healthy I wouldn't even consider contact with her. There remains a small (but important) part of me that has a weakness for her and thats the part that:

a) makes things blossom into a possible beautiful new thing with her;

b) she will use to destroy me all over again;

c) I will always carry with me but it won't ever open up for her again.

I constantly feel kind of 'dirty' so to speak, when it comes to this. It felt more 'pure' when I wasn't into contact with her and just moving on. I am still moving on but the contact is opening up future possibilities and it just feels strange, like I am not supposed to do that, of course also after reading so much about BPD and experiences with them on this and other forums for almost 2 years.

At least I know I've done the work the past couple of years, that's something. I just don't want to lose the work again.
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« Reply #57 on: May 31, 2016, 10:17:57 AM »

Good deal man!  Very healthy attitude.  I know how hard it is to totally let go and if I were in your shoes I may also be struggling because my ex was at least a friend ... .although given the way she ended things I should probably not believe that anymore.

Yeah that's the thing, things didn't end with her and me because of cheating, because of some huge financial scam or other stuff you often read on here. Things ended because we had arguments and more arguments, and they were wearing me down. At the end of the five year relationship I was a shell of my former self, with no clear identity or own life anymore. I NEVER EVER want to get back to that. At the same time, I cannot deny the feeling of having found a 'soulmate' that people so often talk about here, one of the first clues after the break up that clued me on that she might be BPD.

Yea, I get it.  I definitely felt the same, numb and lost myself somewhere along the line ... .and only after 2 years.  We didn't have many arguments although I could see the potential for that developing down the road.  But then as with you, and many of us, the depth of the connection we developed is undeniable.  Unfortunately that bond is tenuous at best and not likely a shared bond.

I just don't want to be one of those persons that come on here or other forums that think 'oh well, THIS time she has changed' or 'oh, THIS time I know how to keep my boundaries'. I KNOW the damage they can do and the way they can penetrate your shield. I don't want to presume I know how to handle it this time. That's the thing that is keeping me at a distance and she will have to do LOTS of work to get closer to me so that I can slowly let my guard down. And chances are she won't even want to do that, and if that is the case, its end of story. Simple as that.

That is the thing isn't it?  Knowing what I know now the relationship would undoubtedly be better ... .BUT ... .the major issues that destroyed me from within and destroyed the relationship are still there.  They are hers to own not mine and until she faces them nothing will ever change.  There is no amount of change I can undertake that will mitigate these issues or magically make them go away and I would merely be subjugating myself to living again with near constant fear and anxiety.  This is not the life I want to live and I would rather be alone than to live like that again.

As each cycle occurs for her I think all she learns is how to conceal it better but it is still there doing the damage.   It truly breaks my heart that this is how it is and will always be with her.  I denied the truth for far longer than I should have.
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« Reply #58 on: May 31, 2016, 11:04:10 AM »

Sorry for just jumping in on the thread but I feel I been in the same situation as yourself and all I can say is run for the hills pal. Just more heartache to come out of it and if your in a good place now believe me you won't be if you go back down that road.
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« Reply #59 on: June 01, 2016, 05:47:31 AM »

Thanks for the feedback folks. Both C.Stein and Startingafreshafter18yrs. I hope you understand I take all your replies seriously.

Anyway, I woke up today and found out eventually I was blocked on the app program all of a sudden.  Laugh out loud (click to insert in post) No idea what is going on. Maybe second thoughts, maybe a way to punish me for setting boundaries. Who knows. You never know with these people.
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« Reply #60 on: June 01, 2016, 05:57:55 AM »

You never know with these people.

Just for the record:

sight... .would blocking be the way to go then? I feel bad about doing that, kinda.

She sought out someone who could soothe her, but with your boundaries in place, you were perceived as withdrawing object.
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« Reply #61 on: June 01, 2016, 05:59:47 AM »

You never know with these people.

Just for the record:

sight... .would blocking be the way to go then? I feel bad about doing that, kinda.


True, I was close to blocking myself, the irony is not lost on me Smiling (click to insert in post) Its all okay though, the way we talked was way too short to build any emotional investment again.
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« Reply #62 on: June 01, 2016, 06:07:44 AM »

Thanks for the feedback folks. Both C.Stein and Startingafreshafter18yrs. I hope you understand I take all your replies seriously.

Anyway, I woke up today and found out eventually I was blocked on the app program all of a sudden.  Laugh out loud (click to insert in post) No idea what is going on. Maybe second thoughts, maybe a way to punish me for setting boundaries. Who knows. You never know with these people.

She is acting out like a child would.  It is a clear signal that nothing has changed with her.
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« Reply #63 on: June 01, 2016, 06:09:20 AM »

Wow... .

Reading this thread, I am somewhat apprehensive about what could happen to me in the near future. I feel if I were to ever see her again, I probably will keep things casual and not getting sucked back into the whole romantic relationship again.
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« Reply #64 on: June 01, 2016, 06:24:07 AM »

I'm not going to lie, watching this thread evolve has been really insightful to me. I think all of us who are currently stonewalled imagine (dare I say fantasize) of a similar situation occurring.

Her response today (although unpleasant for you, and i'm sorry for that) serves as a reminder to US ALL of the types of people we are dealing with.

Who actually knows what she was seeking, perhaps just a bit of validation, perhaps she wanted to actually jump ship from her current partner.

I want to highlight two things that I have learned:

1. Borderlines will NOT change from their current MO's (patterns of behavior) without significant investment in themselves. As much as we would like to believe otherwise, unless you have physical proof of their treatment (and acknowledgement of their illness) it is likely more smoke and mirrors.

2. The importance of having boundaries and maintaining them. How easily could this have ended in more pain and heartache without them? This would still knock me around greatly, but it could have been much, much worse.

Thanks for sharing your experience. I'm feeling a bit sad this afternoon, no reason in particular, just another wave of pain. This helped immensely in reminding me the futility of dwelling on our ex's.

Cheers,
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« Reply #65 on: June 01, 2016, 06:27:35 AM »

She is acting out like a child would.  It is a clear signal that nothing has changed with her.

Demonstrable recovery almost always requires long term therapy and application over many months and more likely years.  Rebounds, recycles and the like aren't good indicators.

Rare exceptions:  Marsha Lineham, one of the most notable pioneers ever in the BPD research field, did her own version of therapy, without the guidance available today, but it still took her many years.  It would be unrealistic to expect very many people to manage on their own what she accomplished.
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« Reply #66 on: June 01, 2016, 06:36:13 AM »

I absolutely don't take this the wrong way Ahoy. While this message board was originally for me to let off steam en get insights (and it still is), these days when something happens concerning my uBPD ex I also post it here to talk about it, and not only get insights myself but to also let others get insights. Glad to help.

I don't really feel any pain, although to be honest there's a little voice in me saying she just blocked me this morning because she doesn't want her current guy to see any communication just to be sure (she did that a few months before when we were talking). If it appears to be more than that, like, really cutting me off again, I might feel it a bit more, but I dont suspect it will sting that much. I'm so far removed from the feelings of 1,5 years ago that I can manage.
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« Reply #67 on: June 01, 2016, 06:48:51 AM »

I don't really feel any pain, although to be honest there's a little voice in me saying she just blocked me this morning because she doesn't want her current guy to see any communication just to be sure (she did that a few months before when we were talking). If it appears to be more than that, like, really cutting me off again, I might feel it a bit more, but I dont suspect it will sting that much. I'm so far removed from the feelings of 1,5 years ago that I can manage.

When you can step back and objectively look at it and say to yourself ... .more of the same, nothings changed then it won't sting much if at all.  As you said you are far enough out there should be almost no emotional entanglement anymore and this will keep you "honest" with yourself.   Smiling (click to insert in post)
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« Reply #68 on: June 01, 2016, 07:25:50 AM »

yea so I'm unblocked... .probably was for safety measures. Oh well.

Do you folks sometimes fear they're actually reading here? I sometimes think about that. These people can make you paranoid af.
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« Reply #69 on: June 01, 2016, 07:34:24 AM »

yea so I'm unblocked... .probably was for safety measures. Oh well.

Do you folks sometimes fear they're actually reading here? I sometimes think about that. These people can make you paranoid af.

ALL THE TIME!  With the recent online stalking I've had, I'm quite paranoid at the moment Laugh out loud (click to insert in post)

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Relationship status: Seperated since nov '14
Posts: 431


« Reply #70 on: June 01, 2016, 07:36:35 AM »

yea so I'm unblocked... .probably was for safety measures. Oh well.

Do you folks sometimes fear they're actually reading here? I sometimes think about that. These people can make you paranoid af.

ALL THE TIME!  With the recent online stalking I've had, I'm quite paranoid at the moment Laugh out loud (click to insert in post)

Yeah I often feel like a paranoid crazy person for thinking this, but then again I felt the same way when I suspected she hacked my instagram account and she made a new profile on fb with a random photo of a woman just to follow me. Turned out at least the first one was real.

I haven't really placed anything here that identifies me and I never gave her a reason to suspect Im on an internation forum about BPD, but then again if she would read enough of my story on here she would without a doubt identify me and herself.
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Hadlee
formerly busygall
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Gender: Female
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Ex-romantic partner
Posts: 424


« Reply #71 on: June 01, 2016, 07:41:05 AM »

Yeah I just don't know if they really would.  Mine is VERY BIG on online stalking, and also VERY smart when it comes to IT stuff.  So I really don't know.  Couldn't say for sure not, but also couldn't say for sure yes Laugh out loud (click to insert in post)
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C.Stein
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What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Ex-romantic partner
Posts: 2360



« Reply #72 on: June 01, 2016, 07:47:13 AM »

Do you folks sometimes fear they're actually reading here?

Nope.  I actually would like her to read my posts and have even thought of sending her a link to my profile.   Even if I didn't, it wouldn't be hard for her to make the connection.
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gotbushels
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Gender: Male
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Ex-romantic partner
Posts: 1586



« Reply #73 on: June 01, 2016, 09:38:37 AM »

Thanks for the thread CloseToFreedom. Educational  Smiling (click to insert in post) Well done on your boundaries, I'm happy you saw this situation with a good thinking head on your shoulders this time around. I'm glad to see that your life has improved a lot since the breakup.

I think the advice and conversation is a really great example to everyone here. It's really applicable when faced with the "returning BPD" situation. I think that's valuable so thank you.

You've had some great contributions here and I've actually bookmarked this thread for reference. Thanks again.

As additional support I just wanted to add these cuttings as highlights that I think are important.

... .

Let this be a lesson for everyone: they can always come back. The difference is what you do with it.

... .

Well, guess not. Since that e-mail she has been chatting on a phone chat program about every month or so. Yesterday she asked if there was a chance we would ever get back together. I asked why. Which led her to tell me that she actually wasn't happy in her relationship. She is very unhappy and she says she's pretty much certain her current relationship will end. And that she sometimes thinks about getting back with me, if such a thing was possible. And that she has learned a lot and would appreciate a lot more of all the things I did in the relationship now that she has learned.

... .

She is actively soliciting another intimate relationship while she is in an intimate relationship. Don't let the strawberries and cream fool you  Attention(click to insert in post) my baggage

I politely told her today that I didn't feel comfortable with this situation, us talking while she was with someone else... .  She responded very short and emotionless. That she can decide for herself who she talks to.

So she doesn't have that perspective, that she ought to have respect for her current BF.

... .

Rock on ForeverDad. Thank you!

She is acting out like a child would.  It is a clear signal that nothing has changed with her.

Demonstrable recovery almost always requires long term therapy and application over many months and more likely years.  Rebounds, recycles and the like aren't good indicators.

... .

... .now that she's had some distance.

I've often quoted what someone said years ago... .BPD is a disorder most evident in close relationships, the closer the relationship, the more evident it is.

With her more distant now, she may appear less abnormal.  But get close again and if she's not well along on her way to recovery (through intensive meaningful therapy applied throughout her life) then the crazy will soon resume.

Also, note that she is still in another relationship yet she is in contact with you.    Sounds like you're on the back burner, simmering on hold so she has a backup when this relationship ends.  That's common.  many disordered people jump from one relationship to the next, it's the instability.  If you let her jump to you, understand that she isn't done jumping.

Just because it's quiet doesn't mean a voracious leech isn't crawling into your sock.
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Rayban
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What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Ex-romantic partner
Posts: 502


« Reply #74 on: June 01, 2016, 03:06:31 PM »

Blocking and unblocking you is just another ploy to solicit a reaction, or at the very least have you thinking about her.
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Turkish
Senior Ambassador
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Gender: Male
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Other
Relationship status: "Divorced"/abandoned in Feb 2013.
Posts: 11033


Dad to my wolf pack


« Reply #75 on: June 01, 2016, 04:30:24 PM »

This topic has been locked as it's reached its post limit. Please feel free to start a new discussion.
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