let's get married... no, just friends... gulp, sigh

[Depression = 72% of members]

Hi, everybody,

I’m new here, and this seems to be the best place to post this.  Sorry it's so long.  I have been in a relationship with someone for about 10 years.  Before I began to understand what he might be suffering from, I pushed him away in exhaustion/confusion, he panicked and broke up with me, and I went no contact without signaling it, also out of panic.  We gradually resumed contact and got back together after a fashion, although things haven’t been the same. 

One of the better thing is that I am able to react differently since coming to believe he suffers from some sort of PD.   (“Borderline” took me a while since he’s a guy and more or less a loner;  I explored other PDs, but not BPD until just now.  It is him: the self-preserving rather than pure narcissism, not wanting to reveal himself, neediness followed by distancing, all of it.)  That said, since getting back together, trust is less; he seems even less open emotionally before, even though he is occasionally strikingly but rather obliquely open as he “tells” me things about emotions in non-traditional ways, such as through movies and songs and references to other people’s situations  ….And it’s like there are two of him: one wants reassurance and panics when I don’t respond in the way he needs, and the other pulls away when I express myself unstintingly or even when I mirror his own expressions, sometimes.  Although we have admitted that we care about one another and love one another, on the surface things largely exist on a sexual plane, with everything else infrequently or more subliminally expressed (on his part).
Anyway, he’ll periodically “disappear” without notice (a day or days), and has occasionally tried to go to “just friends.”  I’ve noticed the “breaks” and discussions about “just friends” (which have been pretty respectful on his part I have to say; he’s not a yeller either) have come after extremely intense emotional interactions, with a lot of expression about feelings and desires for us on his end (and happiness, but greater caution, on mine).

In the past, we have always resolved this and maintained our relationship status.  This time seems more intense, though.  He went MIA for like four days, then “came back” as if nothing had happened and started talking intensely about the next steps in our relationship, which, to repeat: while romantic, it is not traditional.  We fell in love very quickly and talked marriage from the get-go, but since the breakup, those references on his part have been there, but not completely “real,” for lack of a better term.  (I have tread very softly; I think I struggle with enabling/co-dependency.)

After the latest intense romantic burst, via text and literally the same day he gave me the “just friends” speech and said he needs a break and won’t be contacting me for a while.  The new thing here is his saying in a second text that he is going incommunicado for a time (and also saying to contact him if I ever need anything).  Other than that, the same messages, same words as previous occasions he has done this: Respectful, but very formal suddenly and a super quick change emotionally, etc.  And this literally hours after making plans and emotional expressions about us being a couple with “wife” overtones.

In the past when this has happened, I’ve reassured him about respecting his independence (which he seems to worry about--engulfment, etc) and so on, and he’s come back pretty quickly.   I think I’ve accepted the terms the relationship is on / “hid in” them out of love for him, fear of vulnerability, physical attraction more. 

It seems to me now that he could really be trying to stop our relationship from progressing predominantly on a sexual level, although he also has maintained/encouraged this status quo for a long time (and I do the same).

Although I’ve not said this yet, I’ve come to agree with him that this is actually good; we’ve lost sight of our true conexion, and I think that I might be enabling a sexual addiction.  I know that it is best for me to take a different tack than just trying to reel him back in.   I know (and love) this man very much.  He seems pretty miserable most of the time, and unable to act in the real world on what seem to be intense but scary desires for him.  I consider the way he’s revealed himself to me in ways that have allowed me to figure him out are a form of trust that I wish to honor.  I know he loves me in the way he can.  I am quite certain given his isolation tendencies that I may be one of few or maybe the only one to whom he has revealed enough that I understand all this about him.  (He is a very successful, well spoken, charismatic, and good looking, etc, but keeps people at a distance.) 

At the same time, I’ve been warned on this and other forums to not “diagnose” him.

I’ve also read cases with similar facets to mine and generous responses on this forum with tears in my eyes.  It seems that people here have more experience than I do about how to handle this sort of thing with the right sort of awareness, and that gives me some hope.  I love this man also as a human being, and want to do the right thing.  But I know I can’t fix him, only me.  Any thoughts about what to do next?  He has not asked me not to contact him, and I would like to reply beyond the astounded and garbled text message I sent him already.

Thanks so much for your time and ideas!  

lar, laris

[lar, laris]

Hi, everybody,

I’m new here, and this seems to be the best place to post this.  Sorry it's so long.  I have been in a relationship with someone for about 10 years.  Before I began to understand what he might be suffering from, I pushed him away in exhaustion/confusion, he panicked and broke up with me, and I went no contact without signaling it, also out of panic.  We gradually resumed contact and got back together after a fashion, although things haven’t been the same. 

One of the better thing is that I am able to react differently since coming to believe he suffers from some sort of PD.   (“Borderline” took me a while since he’s a guy and more or less a loner;  I explored other PDs, but not BPD until just now.  It is him: the self-preserving rather than pure narcissism, not wanting to reveal himself, neediness followed by distancing, all of it.)  That said, since getting back together, trust is less; he seems even less open emotionally before, even though he is occasionally strikingly but rather obliquely open as he “tells” me things about emotions in non-traditional ways, such as through movies and songs and references to other people’s situations  ….And it’s like there are two of him: one wants reassurance and panics when I don’t respond in the way he needs, and the other pulls away when I express myself unstintingly or even when I mirror his own expressions, sometimes.  Although we have admitted that we care about one another and love one another, on the surface things largely exist on a sexual plane, with everything else infrequently or more subliminally expressed (on his part).
Anyway, he’ll periodically “disappear” without notice (a day or days), and has occasionally tried to go to “just friends.”  I’ve noticed the “breaks” and discussions about “just friends” (which have been pretty respectful on his part I have to say; he’s not a yeller either) have come after extremely intense emotional interactions, with a lot of expression about feelings and desires for us on his end (and happiness, but greater caution, on mine).

In the past, we have always resolved this and maintained our relationship status.  This time seems more intense, though.  He went MIA for like four days, then “came back” as if nothing had happened and started talking intensely about the next steps in our relationship, which, to repeat: while romantic, it is not traditional.  We fell in love very quickly and talked marriage from the get-go, but since the breakup, those references on his part have been there, but not completely “real,” for lack of a better term.  (I have tread very softly; I think I struggle with enabling/co-dependency.)

After the latest intense romantic burst, via text and literally the same day he gave me the “just friends” speech and said he needs a break and won’t be contacting me for a while.  The new thing here is his saying in a second text that he is going incommunicado for a time (and also saying to contact him if I ever need anything).  Other than that, the same messages, same words as previous occasions he has done this: Respectful, but very formal suddenly and a super quick change emotionally, etc.  And this literally hours after making plans and emotional expressions about us being a couple with “wife” overtones.

In the past when this has happened, I’ve reassured him about respecting his independence (which he seems to worry about--engulfment, etc) and so on, and he’s come back pretty quickly.   I think I’ve accepted the terms the relationship is on / “hid in” them out of love for him, fear of vulnerability, physical attraction more. 

It seems to me now that he could really be trying to stop our relationship from progressing predominantly on a sexual level, although he also has maintained/encouraged this status quo for a long time (and I do the same).

Although I’ve not said this yet, I’ve come to agree with him that this is actually good; we’ve lost sight of our true conexion, and I think that I might be enabling a sexual addiction.  I know that it is best for me to take a different tack than just trying to reel him back in.   I know (and love) this man very much.  He seems pretty miserable most of the time, and unable to act in the real world on what seem to be intense but scary desires for him.  I consider the way he’s revealed himself to me in ways that have allowed me to figure him out are a form of trust that I wish to honor.  I know he loves me in the way he can.  I am quite certain given his isolation tendencies that I may be one of few or maybe the only one to whom he has revealed enough that I understand all this about him.  (He is a very successful, well spoken, charismatic, and good looking, etc, but keeps people at a distance.) 

At the same time, I’ve been warned on this and other forums to not “diagnose” him.

I’ve also read cases with similar facets to mine and generous responses on this forum with tears in my eyes.  It seems that people here have more experience than I do about how to handle this sort of thing with the right sort of awareness, and that gives me some hope.  I love this man also as a human being, and want to do the right thing.  But I know I can’t fix him, only me.  Any thoughts about what to do next?  He has not asked me not to contact him, and I would like to reply beyond the astounded and garbled text message I sent him already.

Thanks so much for your time and ideas!  

lar, laris

[RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING]

RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members are welcomed to express frustration but must seek constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[Lilyroze]

  hi lar, laris,

Welcome to the board, though sorry you are going through what you are. From all you have written this must be real hard for you right now.

To have been in a relationship that long and have the push and pull.

There are some wonderful articles, tools that might help you to start to heal while you both are deciding where to go with this friendship or relationship.

How are you feeling now after a few days or processing this? Where do you see yourself in the future in regards to this relationship?

Are there any goals or things you are working on or want to while you have this time to yourself?

Keep posting and some others might have some insight for you.

[lar, laris]

Hi, Lilyroze,  Thanks so much for taking the time to reply.  It is hard.  I have been reading a lot of other people's situations here and some of the articles and they have given me some good information and some strategies, though.  Thanks for suggesting that.   

I have been filling my days as best I can; I find it helps to stay busy and meet goals: I went back to the gym and have started looking into therapy, for example.  I know I have to move forward, and it actually does make me feel better. 

My feelings go up and down.  I think through all that I've read that there is not hope for a healthy relationship with my LO unless he gets help for his issues: some of the ways we interrelate are very clearly products of his (apparent) BPD and my maladaptive responses.  (I need help, too, and am seeking therapy.)  I am also sometimes jealous, thinking that he could be out there with another woman.  All that.  :/

I know that part of me is hoping that he will be regretting the impulsivity of his cut-off.  But it doesn't seem so since I haven't heard from him again this time.

Right now, I want so badly to write him.  But I also honestly keep dithering about what to say.  I gave a knee-jerk response to his last text trying to cajole him back into the cycle we had going, but I also said that I accept the validity of what he most  recently said: that he thinks we should just be friends. 

What is difficult is the one-hour-to-the-next flip-flopping of our last contact.  Although I've heard nothing further in over a week, I keep hoping that the last he said (friends because the other path is destructive for both of us) isn't all there is to it... .  I guess I want him to love me as I do him... .and the noble part of me wants to offer my support for his struggle as a true friend (we are) for if/when he is ready for that.

I feel like a coward, though.  I haven't exactly been noble all this time.  I've allowed him to relate to me sexually in ways that probably aren't healthy in our context because I care about him and want to express myself sexually with him.  I think that for him, though, the sexual fantasy aspect might be a problem: a need, rather than an option.

I feel my motives have been mixed, and that I've not been very noble, at all.  How much to reveal to a person who has told me he is taking his distance from me?  I want to say it all... .  Oh how I want to just spill it... .

Can anyone relate to any of this?  Could you please help me with what to say (if anything)?  Thank you so much for reading this. 

[Meili]

Yes, I can completely relate to all of what you wrote. I've experienced it myself.

If we can, let's start with the basics.

Why do you want to be with him?
Can you accept him as he is?
Do you have realistic expectations about the relationship?

[lar, laris]

Hi, Meili,  Thanks for those questions (and for being such a warrior on this site in general). 

You ask me why I want to be in this relationship.  Even though the person that my LO would be more consistently were he not afflicted comes in fits and starts, he is a wonderful person: caring, generous, thoughtful, funny, humble, family oriented.  I also can't seem to stop loving him in spite of the difficulties, and this is significant for me.  I see positive outcomes for my own growth through this relationship, even though it's hard.  I also see him trying very much, in his own way, to "do" this; the relationship is not 50/50 by any means, but I believe he tries his best.  There are also less positive reasons such as co-dependence, emotional intimacy issues, but I am learning to be aware of those.


I know I must accept him as he is, and that propels me to figure out how to do that better.  I would accept and respect a friendship status if that were what he truly wanted/considered best, even though I feel more for him than that and it would be hard.  Over the years, I have grown out of wishing him to be different, or a certain way more often, and have come to understand that this is who he is.  (The understanding goes a long way for me: I have a dispassionate character, a long tolerance for ambiguity, and if I "get it," I'm darn near golden.)  Although this doesn't mean I don't wish better for him, of course, I don't think I have an "agenda."

I don't know if my expectations are realistic, or not, and wonder what you think.  This is what they "look like":  they are modest, and I don't freak out when things don't come to pass or last, such as plans, intentions, my status.  I understand that even though for me sexual attraction, close friendship, intellectual compatibility and love, can coexist, he does not seem to experience things that way with any consistency.  (I wonder, is this common in pwBPD?)  And I don't expect that to be different (without prof. help).

Does all of this mean I don't have hopes?  No; I would love for him to be more fully himself, and I want to express more than friendship... .and I don't think I would hold out that last hope or be interested at all
any more if it weren't for his avid reciprocities and set-ups, even though they shift and fizzle into silence and “just friends” sometimes….

Thanks again for your questions. 

[lar, laris]

& it would be great to hear perspectives on any aspect of my situation and any recommendations regarding contact... .

I am new to trying to respond to him differently, in certain ways new to viewing some of his actions as part of a disorder and thus taking them more seriously instead of ignoring them (if that makes any sense), and feeling a bit shaky with what will help him hear me and how much it would be effective to say right now... .

thank you so much for the support so far!

[patientandclear]

I understand that even though for me sexual attraction, close friendship, intellectual compatibility and love, can coexist, he does not seem to experience things that way with any consistency.  (I wonder, is this common in pwBPD?)

lar, laris:

First off, I don't think many people are as well suited to dealing with an intimate connection with someone w/BPD as you already seem to be.  Your calm in the face of shifting definitions and terms, silence, excitement ... .and your acceptance of his limitations as described above, mean you're better set to manage the dynamics than most of us.  I can do these things but it sometimes hurts because I have an interpretive lens (courtesy of my earlier life) that codes this stuff as rejection, which I then have to consciously override.  You seem to have a really strong intuitive understanding.

Your description above of the inability to hold simultaneously the physical, intellectual, emotional and spiritual closeness completely resonates with me.  The BPD person in my life seems to have this exact issue.  He can be intimate and close but there has to be a piece that is excluded from that arrangement or he feels trapped and enveloped and exposed.

Your guy is lucky to have you in his life.

[lar, laris]

Thanks, patientandclear.  As I think I mentioned on the thread you're hosting, I really resonate with your situation, too.  In fact, a lot of what you (and many others) are saying has really helped me put words to what seems to be going on with me and my LO.  I am so grateful for this site.

The good thing for me is that writing helps me reflect on my reality.  The bad thing is that since I explain things in writing for a living, I probably sound more with it that I really am.  Composing my scenario is helpful, but also an "intellectual" form of control.  Get me out in the real world actually enacting this stuff with my guy (as you say ), and I'm not so terrific.

This is why I'm probably stalled on what to say to him next.  I believe all of you guys when you say that we are in control of the relationship: setting the tone, moving things along, defusing blow-outs, etc.  I have seen this in my own situation.

Of course, one email (what it would be, right now), is not gonna make or break this relationship, but I'm finding that when it comes to actually communicating with my LO, I'm suddenly out of words, and my clear sense of things (if that's what it is), can get scrambled.  Oh, dear... .

Anyways, thank you so much for reaching out with your understanding, and sharing your own situation.  It has been very helpful.  In particular, this time, I resonate with the "overriding responses that come from old stuff" thing. 

Among other things, I bet this relationship is helping me challenge those limitations and see that I CAN challenge, enforce boundaries, deal with confrontation, be emotionally honest, put myself out there even though "I will be rejected" (I'm starting to see the absences, etc, as really expressing s.t. about my person, though, and not really directed at me.  A relief, but also sad.), etc.

Your vote of confidence means a lot to me, too.  I guess I'll learn to take what I can write on a forum into the heat of the moment gradually, with a lot of latitude for my humanity and his, and help from the very good people here. 

Anyway, I hope that you are well.  I'll check your thread to see if there's any update.

lar, laris

[Jessica84]

I feel my motives have been mixed, and that I've not been very noble, at all.  How much to reveal to a person who has told me he is taking his distance from me?  I want to say it all... .  Oh how I want to just spill it... .

I can so relate to this. You CAN say it all--and SHOULD--just not to him. Spill it here, call a friend, or tell your therapist. Get it all out. You need clarity. You sound so loving and compassionate. How can he resist you?  So try not to take his distance personally. He's dealing with his emotions in his own way, and in his own time. Be patient.

When you do contact him, think less is more. Keep things light. Try not to overwhelm him. I have stumbled with this one. I used to send these long, twisting, overly emotional emails, and it pushed him further away. I shamed him and made things worse... .when all I wanted was to "spill" so he would understand. But it was always the quick 1-2 sentences that helped the conversations flow until we got back on track. Hang in there 

[lar, laris]

Thank you, Jessica84.  I think all your advice is really excellent, and I appreciate you sharing your experience when you did otherwise.  Thanks also for your encouraging words.  This stuff sure gets us polishing skills we need in relationships with pwBPD!   

I am thinking that perhaps my points could be:

a.  re-validating his bravery in expressing all of his thoughts and feelings

b.  re-affirming that I understand that it seems he needs a friend more than anything right now, and that I am here for him when he is comfortable returning

Would it be okay to say that it appears that this expression is difficult for him and/or that it seems he may be struggling?  Or would it rather suggest that he is broken, problematic, etc?

I am also considering snail mail rather than email.  Thoughts on that?

Thank you so much for reading this. 

lar, laris

 

[Jessica84]

When is the last time you had contact? How do you normally communicate? Phone, text, email?

[lar, laris]

Two weeks ago, so about the longest we've ever gone without communication, bar my months-long cut-and-run a few years ago.  (In fact he alluded to that when he suggested he was going to take a break.)  And the most recent exchanges had been emails/texts.  I was thinking letter so he wouldn't feel pressure to respond, as it is less immediate.  But would the familiarity of a text/email be more helpful?  And maybe he needs to hear sooner rather than later that I am not going to disappear this time?

Thanks, Jessica84

[Jessica84]

What about a simple text like this?

Hope you are well. I want to respect your space, and let you know I'm here for you if you need anything.

Simple. No pressure. Lets him know you're thinking of him and there for him.

Like sticking your toe in the pool to check the temperature. He can respond, or not. If he does, dip in further, slowly. If he doesn't, wait and try again in a few days. Don't push.

[lar, laris]

Thanks for that idea, Jessica84. 

I maybe didn't highlight that this time (for the first time) he told me he was going to not write/respond for "a while." 

I guess I was thinking I should get more out there and then NOT write for a while... .ie, "respect his space" by leaving him alone... .

But I've read time and again that we are best off behaving in counter-intuitive ways.  So hard! 

What you suggest is to launch more frequent (than one) light emails, spaced out, even if he doesn't respond... .  does that still respect his space?

I've got some "stuff" from my own past that makes it hard to reach out multiple times if I am ignored.  But I've never tried that with him, not that I've had to.  Could this be part of behaving in new ways?

He has not told me to not contact him, it's true... .

Thanks again, Jessica84.  I see there's more on the thread you're hosting.  I'll be able to learn more after I get back from the gym.  Hope you're hanging in there!

[Jessica84]

Oh my stuff is a been-there-done-that-I-need-to-vent-before-my-head-explodes thing 

Besides, anything to take my mind off my own problems is a godsend right now! But do take anything I say as coming from someone on the brink of her own disaster -- at your peril. 

I try to remember they still fear abandonment, even when they are the ones doing the abandoning. You have been respecting his space. He has not asked you not to contact him, so one text after 2 weeks doesn't seem like a major violation. I know being ignored after you reach out can hurt. I have the same "stuff". I try to set my stuff aside if my intent is genuinely to reach out to someone in need of a friend, or a comforting voice. As you said, you have no hidden agenda.  I know you must be hurting from all this too. It is so hard to suffer from the grief they cause us, while simultaneously caring about them and how they feel.

If you've never tried it this way before, why not? I try anything and everything, and tweak it as I go! It's like putting together a Rubik's Cube when you're colorblind! If this seems counter-intuitive it might work. Might not. But hey, you have other tools to fix any damage, if there is any.

But I can say that I've done it this way with some success. My bf was suicidal and went MIA. He told me similar to what yours said - we're just "friends", he needs time/space, etc. I left him alone, but also worried about him. He was a bear in a dark cave. I had to be patient for him to come out on his own ready to sniff the sunshine, but my little texts may have given him a small lantern to carry him out. At least he said it did.

[lar, laris]

Thank you, Jessica84.  All of what you say makes a lot of sense.  Your input is really helpful; I was ready to go for too much, all at once.  Having given it a few days' thought, you idea seems the best, and I can always up the ante as he responds.   I can't take back "too much."  Thanks again, and I'll keep you (all) posted.
Lar, laris

[Jessica84]

You are so right about not being able to take back "too much". I think there's a saying like: what we regret most are the things we never got a chance to say... .that doesn't ring so true to me with BPD. I stick with "less is more".

My greatest regrets in my r/s aren't the things I didn't say, but all the things I DID say. I ran across some old emails I sent him years ago, knowing nothing of BPD. My God. Trigger here. Trigger there. Trigger, trigger, everywhere! I could see every mistake I made. Blamed him, shamed him, abandoned him, invalidated him, pushed him, pulled him, pressured him, all with such good intent... .(but wildly ignorant) Meanwhile feeling like *I* was the 'victim'.

You are light years ahead of me. I was absolutely clueless. A little sad sometimes I can't get a do-over. But even my deranged partner imparted some pretty good wisdom on me once - he said all can we do is make the best decisions we can, based on the knowledge we have, at the time we have it. So true!

[Meili]

I'm so sorry that it has taken me this long to respond to this. I took an unexpected trip to the mountains for a week and have been offline.

The reasons that you listed to want to stay in your relationship all seem to be very good reasons to be in any relationship! I think that it is admirable that you are also looking at the things that motivate you in the face of what it means to be in a relationship with a pwBPD. Looking at, working with, and controlling those things will serve better than you can probably imagine right now.

I agree that you must accept him as he is. That goes for all relationships though. I think that far too often a non gets so caught up in trying to "help" or "fix" their pwBPD that we lose sight of the need to just accept the person as they are if by their side is a place that we truly want to be.

From what I understand, a relationship with a pwBPD will never be 50/50. That's another one of those things that a non must just accept. The non must carry most of the emotional load in the relationship. It's not a task for the timid. Fortunately, it sounds like you're not exactly timid about the situation.

IMHO, you'll also serve yourself well by dropping all expectations. Far more often than not, expectations breed hurt and resentment. Hoping something will happen a certain way is fine, but when we start expecting things to happen, that's a different story. We are then setting ourselves up because of the inconsistencies that we face. One moment it may seem perfectly acceptable to have a modest expectation based on the actions of the pwBPD, but because of the inherent inconsistencies, things can go wrong rather quickly.

I'm not sure what you meant by him being more fully himself. He is who he is. That's part of the acceptance of it all.

I don't believe that you're wrong when you hesitate about not reaching out and respecting his space however. The "counter-intuitive" thing that you keep reading is more focused to those who feel compelled to reach out to reassure their pwBPD that they are not being abandoned. Or those who think that fighting really hard to prove their love. Or those who are so scared of their pwBPD forgetting about them that they feel that they must remain in the forefront of the person's mind. In those situations, it is counter-intuitive to them to allow the dust to settle in silence. Don't forget that pwBPD act out when their fears are triggered. By reaching out, a non can sometimes retrigger the pwBPD and make things worse. The idea is to give the pwBPD time to regulate their emotions again.

When I reached out to my x, I did it via snail mail for the very reasons that you suggested. I didn't want her to feel pressured to respond right then. I'm a fan of that plan. It also gives you time to write exactly what you need to write and edit it as many times as you need.

[lar, laris]

Hi, Meili (and others who read),

Thank you so much for your thoughtful and thorough reply. I hope that you had a wonderful time in the mountains.     

What you have said gives me a better idea of the dynamics I might be dealing with, what I have to consider regarding being in a relationship with my person, and what good strategies can look like. 

Right now, since we are in a silent period, I have been working on myself, yes.  Active stuff, like exercise and social time with friends, and also introspection about what sort of guiding current I'd like to contribute (instead of just going along with the rather turbulent flow he provides... .).  Another PPDfamily friend has helped me see how and why this "intuitive" placating, while well meant, is not helpful and probably not even valued).

I really appreciate your advice to not continue forward with specific end-points in mind/on my heart, and with any whiff of wanting to "fix" my guy.  I can see the many reasons why this is fatal, including the fact that my pw... will sniff it out and it will set him off.  I don't wish to keep him in a relationship (he has said he will be back) where he feels triggered/cornered.  And I understand the responsibility I bear because of his limited capabilities.  I hope to keep being honest about that with you guys so you can help me with this when/if I get a response from him.

Thank you for your indirect question about what I mean by him being his best self.  As you know, being in this position is sort of tilt-a-whirl-ish, cognitively and emotionally--I HOPE that what I can continue to mean on a more even-keeled basis, is that I wish the best for this other human being, that best that I have had the good fortune to be aware of (as well as the very hard stuff that have me understanding he might be BPD, after many years of relating).  I am grateful to know what I do, and understand that what Richard Rohr prefers to call "non-attachment" (rather than detachment) is the best frame of mind going forward (detachment implying for him non-involvement, non-attachment more implying non-reaction or not being tied to outcomes, while still caring).  What I meant, is that I have seen this person struggle against the binds of his malady, and when he at least appears less fettered by his illness.  I wish for him a best self, hopefully without anticipating that outcome because it will benefit me.  (Of course, I am all too human, and don't do this perfectly, even as I practice the frame of mind without his input right now: bunny-hill stuff, to start, for me.  One reason I haven't reached out yet.)

Since my person and I are in a brand-new phase (extensive, announced--a month now--non-contact at his instigation), I'm not as superficially sure of myself as before.  At the same time, I now see that this pause ruptures an unhealthy (although in some ways enjoyable and flattering) pattern.  I sensed before that this person might use fantasy/story as a way of being safe with me and in general, and that he might be struggling with some issues of his own (over-use of online fantasy escapes).  I would rather have as "real" a relationship with this person as is possible given the circumstances, even if it means that the new "friends" tag, sticks for good, or if it means that our contact becomes casual, or if it means something else.  (I don't think it's healthy, either, to admit that my feelings include something more right now, nor do I think it's good to necessarily assume an outcome can't include something more.  And the Eyore side of me could do just this.)  I think that from what I understand about non-attachment, which I think needs to be in operation here especially, I need to be able to be okay with whatever happens, and not worry and not concern myself with outcomes. 

But I wonder what others think.  I've said elsewhere I'm very analytical, and it is very helpful for me to get input on how to cognitively approach all of this.  That gives me surer footing to let my emotions reveal themselves.  So far, both responses from individuals and article recos have been very helpful.  Thank you to all who have helped so far!

As to how I will go forward with contact:  As I said, I've not heard again from him.  In the past, these "friends" turn-abouts have been quickly repealed, and I've been welcomed again into what I now see is probably primarily a fantasy land, as opposed to a safe landscape to articulate desires that this person has the ability right now to make real.  He has tried to "go live" with no pressure or suggestion from me, and always pulls back, after the fantasy-scape articulation of those desires becomes very intense (wife overtones, etc, as I've said before).  He has maintained a month-long distance from this pattern after a long time of returning to it.

I think I will go snail mail, and probably with something very short.  I like Jessica's suggestion in terms of content and length.  My idea is to show him I care, and that I am not taking another powder (I did an unannounced NC of a number of months a few years ago, before I understood all that).  If indeed he is staying away because he fears that I expect us to pick up where we left off, or because he thinks that I am giving up on him (if all I have read applies to him, he is probably not in a very good space right now), this might help, without pressuring him too much. (I also wonder, since he mentioned my disappearance when he set up his own absence, if I am still "painted black" for that act.  I apologized, as did he for his part in what set that off, but I wonder at his referencing it... .with a smiley face... .at his last contact.)

I would appreciate thoughts and feedback, and also appreciate folks who have read this and offer the non-articulated support of their thoughts/good vibes.  I can sometimes write a good-sounding ine, but one of the reasons I've been infrequent on my own thread, is because all this is both important to me and difficult for me... .

all good things to all,

lar, laris

[patientandclear]

lar, laris -- what you wrote here brought up a few questions for me.

First -- why do you think he might think that you aren't still around for him?  Other than the NC period, have you ever not been around for him when he came back?  I think the tendency to reassure when there is no indication that reassurance is needed might merit some examination.  I say that as someone who in the past has tended in the same direction.  I've spent a ton of time in the head of my BPD person, anticipating what he might be feeling etc.  Some of this is useful, in aid of understanding; but by the time we are doing things to ward off feelings we imagine they may or may not be having ... .I think it's worth looking at.  (I am definitely going to do less of that if I am ever back in communication with the man I write about here.  Partly for health, but partly because I'm often just a bit wrong about his feelings, despite my good intuition and knowledge of him.)

Related to that, I wouldn't assume he's still hurt at your period of NC.  The smiley face when he referenced it might very well be his way of saying he's entitled to this now, turn about is fair play.  You will have more context than we do -- but per the point above, I'd stay away from guessing what he still feels about past events.

It seems to work better to behave in ways that are authentic to you, without worrying too much about whether it matches up perfectly with where he's at.  If now, after a month's time, it feels natural and right to lightly reach out, great.  But I'd urge that you not be trying to manage his feelings in so doing.

As to the whole "best self" thing ... .yeah.  As you can see from my thread, I'm increasingly unsure about participating in dynamics that seem to facilitate harmful behavior and dysfunction.  I'm not suggesting trying to fix -- the opposite.  Just that after years of trying to fit in to my person's twists and turns, and to bend over backwards to understand, I find myself no longer wanting to cooperate in his preferred arrangements nearly so much as I used to.  In the past, I cooperated in order to please and keep him, through understanding and accommodation.  I also thought of it as kindness and acceptance, and that is part of the story too.  Possibly I was trying to be super special to him by being the person who would understand.  (Being brutally honest with myself here.)  For whatever reason, mostly because of his (possibly) more extreme behaviors (than the guy in your life engages in) (moving & seeing other women), and possibly due to emotional growth on my part and tons of effective trauma recovery work ... .I don't want to do that so much any more.  I do still understand.  Probably better than before.  But I don't feel like molding myself into his patterns so much -- not when they're unhealthy, for me, him and others.

I haven't discerned in what you've written that your guy does things, other than redefine the relationship and now being away for a  somewhat protracted period (one month is a blip in my book BTW! the breaks in my BPD r/ship run 10-12 months ... .), that are actually harming or hurting you.  I guess I'd suggest deeply scrutinizing that -- are you sure this doesn't hurt you?  Are you SURE that all the redefinition you imagine could happen is something you'd be fine with?  If you're truly good with all these scenarios ... .then, yes, there isn't much TO do except stay still.

It seems to me the opportunity here, in his absence, is to check and doublecheck with yourself how much of the accommodation skill you obviously have flows from your values, and how much is to ensure you can hang onto him and the relationship.  And I know that's an inherently blurry distinction because of course, we all have to accommodate those we love and want in our lives to some extent.

[lar, laris]

Thanks for your reply, P&C.  You raise some really good questions and points that I've spent a few days trying to get honest about.

Maybe my thinking that contact could be good after a month has something to do with me wanting to control the situation, or prompt an outcome.  But it has never been the case that he has taken distance like this before, so I am waiting to make sure that I am as detached from the outcome as possible.  I've been doing work that has me seeing that I've come some distance that way, and I believe that when the time is right, I will know.  For now, I am just, as you say, "staying still" where that is concerned.

 I think your question ties into the above a bit; I should probably think further about whether I am "strategizing" something (with no input from him at all, as you have me aware of now), or what... .

Your reply has me thinking that I am probably assuming that he has some need to hear from me, that it could help him.  Could be, could not be, you're righ.  I can see how it serves my ulterior interests for that to be so: this way, I don't have to think beyond his "need" of me to question why I would be reaching out. 

That said, my person has a history of insecurity about my availability and a penchant for crafting stories/motives (mine) that aren't accurate, and not checking in.  Sending him something brief may (or may not) let him know that I have not changed in my care for him over time.  I sometimes wonder, since his own perspectives and decisions are so labile, if he doesn't assume that I am equally so.  THings that he's done/said in the past have shown me that he has projected his own emotions onto me before... .  (Isn't this a BPD trait, too?).  He also bailed on a sort of big plan with this "friends" announcement, and had indicated a few days prior that "he could do this [plan]" (as if he doubted himself, were afraid)... .I wouldn't be surprised knowing him if he weren't feeling some shame... .but I could be completely wrong, I understand that better now.  And I am also (thank God!) coming to truly understand/feel that if all of this or something similar is not true (but rather he is just fine, relieved, whatever, to be on a break) it's okay.  I (disinterestedly) hope it helps him.  And if it helps us, that it is icing... .I think with help here, I have had enough of a paradigm shift that I can say that this perspective/attitude is more present, and the grasping/"helping him"/and etc. motivations have slowly sunk away.
(To the extent that I can see your point about my rather large assumption that he is hurt at all by the powder I took, or painted me black, or whatever.  Again, all of that one-sided jumping to conclusions, I see, was designed for me to have a "him-related" reason to reach out to him... .that I crafted right after he disappeared to help myself feel better!)

I also don't believe that the shift has to be "played" perfectly by me, from now on, for me to send out a short note.  (Not that you P&C, insinuated this, of course.)  But as my T says, I have to be careful of expectations.  And I'm not yet convinced on the note, and although I'm tending yes still, I can see that my ideas about it (content, timing; before it was a loaded down thing, to be sent quite quickly so he didn't vanish for good!  Oh, no!... . ) have shifted so radically in a short month, that I'm interested to see what another few weeks could do!  As people have said elsewhere to others, if I still want a relationship in one more month, I'll know it and remain open, and if he does, he will be there/back. And if not, then not.  And I have this forum to thank for the fact that I am easing into this perspective, and "meaning it." 

Your final points about harm, also have me thinking.  With time, I have come to see that I may have further work to do to understand both what this relationship truly means to me, and what it  has (merely) done for me.  Yes, I  love this person, and enough to put up with some cr-p.  But it is also true that some aspects of our relationship have subbed for growth in some ways.  I could benefit by getting even more honest about this, yes.

Thanks, Patient, for your perspective, gentle challenges, time, and care.

lar, laris

[Lilyroze]

  lar, laris,

I humbly apologize for taking so long to get back to this thread, but alas have some things going on and wanted to see some of your thoughts . I think you have some great advice here.

I do have a few questions is the man in your life married, getting divorced or single? I am slightly confused, and looking for some clarity.

I read why you want to be with him and love him.  Your thread resonates with me, while slightly triggering me. I would love to be of any assistance though if I may.

  LR