Telling my ex to stick to our son is causing resistance

[JerryRG]

Hello everyone

Son's mother emailed me a long list of her medical issues and when I ask her to stick to talking about our son and him alone she counters with more drama and chaos.

I assume the only way to get her to stop is to just stop all communication?

I do well until she starts in and then I want to give up.

She's just to sick and toxic to be around.

Sent me an email last night asking how I was? I told her to leave me alone and yet she continues to want my attention.

Does she still want to be with me or regret being so difficult while we were together? Does she love me or hate me or both?

She throws her bf in the convo when she's upset as if to try to make me jealous

I don't have time or energy for this immaturity and my son needs me.

[Panda39]

My suggestion is to communicate via email only.  That way you don't have to respond right away you can read through the emails at your convenience and respond only to what is relevant.  If there is nothing relevant don't respond.  (Emails are also good for documenting behaviors... .you might need this in the future)

Your boundaries are yours to defend... .pwBPD are often big boundary busters and are not above being bullies to do it.

She emails you a laundry list of her health issues ignore them, don't respond at all... .do not engage even to tell her to stick to talking about your son.

 "Sent me an email last night asking how I was? I told her to leave me alone and yet she continues to want my attention." and you gave her your attention by telling her to leave you alone... .she'll keep doing what works for her and that worked for her.

The less you respond to this stuff the less she gets what she wants and eventually she will look elsewhere but you need to be consistent at defending those boundaries.  I suggest you tell her you will only be communicating via email and if she calls... .she might even blow up the phone... .do not answer it.  Email her in response. If you receive an email response read it and ask yourself is any of this about my son? If it is send a BIFF (Brief, Informative, Friendly, Firm) message. Again if you get an email all about her or making accusations about you... .ignore. Don't validate the invalid.

Hang in there,
Panda39

[Turkish]

In addition to what Panda said,  I'd offer that negative engagement is still engagement.  You're giving her attention.  It took me many months to stop answering the late night texts "I know they're fine,  but I'm feeling anxious.  How are the kids?  Sorry. " I finally said, firmly, that I would no longer answer such texts.  When I stopped,  she stopped.  Can you see triangulation here? 

[JerryRG]

Thank you Panda39, Turkish

I know better but I just do the wrong thing anyway, it's me and I get tired and ticked and fire the "please don't talk about anything but our son"

I know what she's looking for and I just give it to her, I asked her mother tonight, why the exgf hates me, her mom said, she don't, just focus on our son.

I guess when I realize how she picks and chooses her version of reality I have a tendency to "correct her"

The triangulation is her, our son and me? Or her, her bf and me?

[Turkish]

I'd think of it as you,  her,  and her anxieties over (take your pick).

[Concerns]

Hi, I'm going to say that I haven't tried this in my personal life yet but I am going to.
Stop all regular/personal email communication.
Invest in Our Family Wizard.
All communication can be run from there. It's all admissible in court.
Run everything through the app. If she wants to write it down for everyone to see then so be it.
For me, it will provide an official method of communication without the added digs, manipulations, and possible responses from me that would draw me back in for whatever reason.
I've heard different responses from people that have tried to use it with BPD/NPD/high conflict partners with different results.
I think it may be valuable. Check it out.

https://www.ourfamilywizard.com/
 

[david]

I only use email communication as it is written in our court order. I only respond to things that pertain to our boys. I will get emails, that if printed out, would be three or four pages long. IF there is nothing that pertains to our boys I put it in a file and do not respond. This started in 2007 and I have thousands.
In the beginning I tried to defend myself or explain my thinking and went along with whatever she was talking about. I eventually realized to only respond to things about our boys. The frequency of the long rants subsided but did not stop entirely. I view that as a positive.

[JerryRG]

Wow, one day I will be strong enough to just laugh at my exs rants, she did it again today, but until then I just cringe when she sends one. Today she was trying to convince me I was not the best father and she "is a mother who knows things" about our son. Condescending tone.

She's such a ... .

[david]

One thing I have come to realize. I understand my ex better now then when we were married. Her emails are just rants because she is emotionally triggered about something. I understand now that I am not the cause of the emotional outburst and have nothing to do with whatever is upsetting her.
This site and reading about BPD elsewhere has helped me see that my ex's emotional state has nothing to do with the reality in front of her but rather the distorted view she has of it. Her reality is not the same as anyone else that I know giving the same circumstances.
When my ex blames me for being a poor father I now get that she is projecting something she did/felt/etc that makes her see herself as the bad person so she needs to project that onto the other parent (me).
Our boys are older (17 and 13) and stronger and see that their mom is not someone to believe or trust. They have talked to me enough that I believe they both get their mom enough to realize they are not causing whatever issue is occurring in her house when they are there.
We went through a custody eval a few years back. The evaluator talked to both boys separately and had a meeting with ex and I a week later. He wanted to talk to "both" of us about things he observed from talking to each of the boys. He said he wasn't going to bring up that they love their mom and dad but wanted to focus on what he deemed as concerning. For the next hour I just sat there and listened as he spoke to ex exclusively. The big thing I remember is that he asked each boy to describe a typical day when at moms' and a typical day when at dads'. He pointed out that both boys talked about a typical day at dads' and said things like, dad would make breakfast or dinner, we would go out and do things, I would "nag" them about doing their homework, etc. He then said that when either boy talked about things at their moms' neither boy mentioned mom at all. He said it was striking how different the descriptions were at both houses. I was sitting there listening and realized that the boys were telling me the entire truth when they would tell me what was going on at their moms'. I usually listened, when they spoke to me, and said little since I couldn't think of anything to say in a positive way. I did challenge them from time to time but they were adamant that what they were saying was the truth. I never emailed ex to tell her since that would only trigger her and she would take it out on them in some way. "Normally" I would think that the right thing to do is to communicate what the kids are saying to the other parent. In this situation that would not
be productive so I said nothing to her. I would try to give them some advice on how to engage with their mom in a positive way and they usually said that wouldn't work and why. They made sense so I let it go.
I was not able to do that in the beginning but learned how. It was necessary for our boys. I don't like it that ex has practically no relationship with our boys but I didn't cause it and I can't fix it. I try to parent them as best I can and model for them ways that I believe will serve them well for their future.
Also, I have stepsons.They are ex's boys from her first marriage. I have a great relationship with all of them except one. He has a serious addiction problem and will not talk to me or his brothers. One of the boys is complete NC with his mom and the other rarely (LC) talks to her. Of course, I have been blamed for that too. Oh well.

[JerryRG]

Thank you David

I'm tired and emotional right now, thinking about what you wrote reminds me of my son's mother. The thing that bothers me most is this false front she puts up, if I'm disturbed I tell people, or feeling bad or down or inadequate as a father or whatever. She tries to convince me she knows it all, she's superior in every way, got her life together and she's happy. Which is it? You are miserable and broke yet you put me in with you after I have worked my behind off getting well, truly well.

The evidence is completely the opposite so I treat her as a mature, rational adult as she seems to portray and she hides the truth, her vulnerability and weakness is hiden from me. I can see why she's miserable because she's always pretending to be something she's not.

Oh well is right, I'm so tired and chasing my son when I'm sick is frustrating because I can't give him what he needs right now.

His mother is kinda doing so so with our arrangement but I know she's going to have some new illness or emergency pop up and she will be out of commission for days or weeks.

Not sure why I keep expecting her to get well, I believe she's getting worse.

Your ex sounds frustrating too and it is sad the children don't have the relationship with her. You had to be both mom and dad?

I was thinking tonight how difficult it is to raise a child aline and how nice it would be to have her around to help is she were healthy, then I remember how much more work it was to care for our son and walk on eggshells and fear another meltdown and I realize just how fortunate we both are she's not here.

Her mother, our sons grandmother told me that at least her new bf would take our son out to play, when our son is alone with mom she just hides in her apartment.

I'm glad your children have you, imagine how they would be if you didn't take care of them and teach them the truth. I can't imagine the horror for a child dependent on a BPD parent.

Thanks again david

[Turkish]

I was thinking tonight how difficult it is to raise a child aline and how nice it would be to have her around to help is she were healthy, then I remember how much more work it was to care for our son and walk on eggshells and fear another meltdown and I realize just how fortunate we both are she's not here.

Can you go with this? As much as it's sad that she isn't here and we're an intact family,  I don't miss the anxiety at all.  Like when S6 was a baby and toddler, he'd cry when she wasn't in the room,  and she'd rush in,  "what did you do to him?" It lessened a bit when D4 was of a similar age, but then she started kind of checking out when she was about 8 months.  

Last week,  we were at his school orientation.  Our son had a fever the previous day but was better.  She felt his neck and got anxious,  "did you check his temperature?  It feels like he has a fever! " The implication was that i wasn't paying attention.  I felt his cheeks.  He didn't.  I said that we had just been standing in the sun and that was why his neck was hot. I checked him when we got him less than an hour later and he was 98.8F. I reacted logically,  even though it bugged me.  Think Spock.

She invited me too the beach on Sunday with them.  I said no thanks.  The kids told me that the last time they went,  she called her husband stupid.  Like,  "S6 is down by the water.  Why aren't you watching him,  what are you,  stupid?" I was called other things,  and my manhood attacked,  but she never called me that.  I don't miss those days at all.  I went to the beach with the kids 3 weeks ago,  just us,  and it was a pleasant time.  No walking on eggshells,  and I could enjoy my time with my kids.  

Though we have to have more contact these days due to having both kids in counseling,  I look at this as a business proposition: the business of raising the kids.  I'd be thankful that she's not actively trying to interfere with your r/s with your son such as engaging in alienation.

My ex still asks me how I'm doing,  all concerned.  I give a BIFF one word response: "fine." I sometimes add a "thanks." I don't care if she cares how I am doing,  and I don't try to ferret out her motivations. I also don't care how she is doing.  Be boring,  don't engage in things that trigger you.  Be business like.  Focus on you and your son.  The more you practice this,  the stronger you will be later for later drama,  able to be proactive rather than reactive.  

[david]

Boring works well. My emails state facts only and I make no conclusions. Of course, ex makes all kinds of conclusions. When she goes off in her reply I do one of two things: 1) no response since I already gave my response or 2) repeat my response exactly as before. I've repeated myself up to 5 times once. I just wanted to see how it would play out that time. Each time I repeated myself I got a long reply with all kinds of new worries,etc. I stopped at five even though I got another long reply. I realized it was just her way of engaging with me. She was venting, projecting, or whatever.