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Author Topic: How to motivate  (Read 594 times)
Hmcbart
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« on: September 06, 2016, 03:59:24 PM »

My wife has a tendency to always have an illness of some sort. Lately it's been dizzy spells and migraines.  She has been to the doctor several times for these things but they never seem to find what's causing them (surprise) and the medications they try do not work (another surprise).

How do you try and motivate someone to get up and be a part of the marriage and family without being rude or hurtful. I have tried just about everything and I'm at my wits end.  She is a stay home mom to our boys (13 & 9).  But she doesn't do anything around the house except lay in bed and watch tv all day. I end up working full time and coming home she doing everything for the boys as well as the cooking and cleaning.

I am pretty sure the next Doctor she goes to needs to be a psychiatrist but I can't tell her that.  Even when I tell her to go to the doctor when she complains about being sick she gets mad at me for it.  I stopped showing and affection because it was not reciprocated at all.  I find myself becoming very resentful and really uncaring.  It's so hard to empathize with her when it's 4 days a week or more that something is wrong.

Quick example. We just moved into a new house.  Her family came down to help unpack.  She was fine for 3 days while they were here. Within 30 minutes of them leaving, she was back to laying down watching tv and said she had a headache. The next day it was dizziness and today the migraine.  But for 3 days she was up moving and doing things.  Does she even realize she does/did this?

Sorry for the rant.  Some days it just really gets to me.
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ArleighBurke
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« Reply #1 on: September 06, 2016, 07:31:59 PM »

It's tough that you have to "parent" your wife... .

If you suspect that it's not "real" (as per when her family was here), then she's really just showing disrespect. She's behaving like a lazy 5yr old who has found out a way to do her own thing. She is justifying her own laziness through feeling sick. You can fix this with boundaries... .

If you are SURE that it's not really a sickness, then start to put your foot down. You have to be really careful about how you do this, because if she really is sick then this will come accross as you being a jerk. But... .

1) State your position. Not a threat - just an expectation. eg I understand you are feeling sick. But there are still things you can do here to help out. If you are too sick, then lets get you into hospital. IF you are not, then I expect you to help/contribute around the house.

2) Don't do things for her that she can do herself. If you are cooking dinner, don't cook any for her. Stop doing her washing. Don't "fetch" anything for her if she's in bed.

3) Plan fun activities that you know she loves, then don't take her. Find out how she feels first, then say "I'm really sorry you are feeling sick. I'm going to take the boys to <fun thing>. Maybe you'll feel better next time". If she changes her tune and suddenly feels better - say no "I LOVE that you want to spend time with us but it wouldn't be good for you. Stay and rest."

4) Make consequences for her actions. Tell the boys they can only spend 5 mins with her because "she sick and needs quiet/rest/space". Hopefully she'll start to miss them/you.

5) Remove the TV from the room - if you can.

Just like when my kids are "sick" and want to stay home from school. I make SURE that it's not a fun day. They are in bed all day with no TV/devices. I allow them to read/colour in, but force them to sleep for 2hrs in the middle of the day (or if not sleeping they are laying in bed with NOTHING). Food is the basics - something they don't hate but don't love to "help their body get better". If their siblings get icecream for dessert - the sick kid doesn't!

Make being healthy a better/more fun choice!
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Hmcbart
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« Reply #2 on: September 06, 2016, 10:14:41 PM »

Thanks for the advice. 

I have been doing the 2 & 3 options lately.  I will plan something and invite her. In the past we wouldn't do it and the boys and I would just hang out at the house all day.  Now we invite her and when she says no, we go and enjoy ourselves. I post lots of pictures to FB so she can see what she's missing (she is on FB 90% of the day it seems like).  I also stopped trying to really help her unless she is actually sick, i.e. Throwing up fever sick. 

As far as number 1, other than asking if she needs me to take her to the hospital I don't ask her to help me with anything.  It's too much drama and I have to listen to her nit picking and condescension when she does.

As for number 4, it feels like she is perfectly fine if I keep the boys away from her all day every day.

Number 5 is an option. I have told her in the past that if she has a real migraine she shouldn't be watching or even listening to the tv but she starts dysteglating and getting upset, the lazy 5 year old. I have thought about unplugging and removing the cable but it feels like I'm just acting like her at that point.

Getting her to contribute is the big one.  I have had that discussion but never really set a boundary with it.  I'm not very good with setting and keeping the boundaries yet.  The most recent one is the finances. I gave her 3 chances to pay the bills on time and handle the finances correctly and she didn't do it so I took it away completely. She tries to push the boundary almost everyday looking for something to prove I don't do a very good job of it but I've held firm. 

I guess I've just been trying to control what is in my control. Her actions are not in that category. It took me many years to finally learn that one.
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ArleighBurke
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« Reply #3 on: September 06, 2016, 11:05:42 PM »

And it's a tough call.

But just like being a father, or being a boss. If the people under you aren't doing what they should, they get told, then fired! Removing all the jobs from them because they "don't want to do it" is not the right solution. (It's an easy solution, but not a long term good one).

For a non-BPD wife, I'd suggest telling her that if she wants to continue to be part of the marriage, then she needs to contribute to the family. That is an option for a BPD wife, but it can also backfire. But if you have nothing to lose... .
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Jessica84
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« Reply #4 on: September 06, 2016, 11:23:55 PM »

Playing devil's advocate... .

Is it possible she is suffering from depression? Seeing her family may have momentarily lifted her spirits, then she crashed again when they left. Or is she taking any meds that could cause dizziness or headaches as side effects?  Trying to rule out possible illnesses that might actually exist.

Then again, sound and lights tend to worsen migraines - so I'm not sure how she's able to watch TV, read, look at FB or do anything with one? I can't. I have to sit in a dark, quiet room, hoping for sweet death! Laugh out loud (click to insert in post)

BPD and hypochondria do seem to go together. Mine has some new ailment every week. Can't motivate him either. He wants to lose weight, but every week there's a new excuse why he can't. This hurts, or that hurts... .he even limped on the wrong foot once. Guess he forgot which side he was faking. So sad.
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SettingBorders
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« Reply #5 on: September 07, 2016, 06:14:02 AM »

My boyfriend often is "sick" too. He might really notice a scretching throat, but I suppose he's not THAT sick as this always happens when something unpleasant is going to happen that day. So then he decides to stay at home. In the past I tried to tell him that in my opinion he's not so sick that it would justify not going to work or to cancel an appointment. That really didn't work at all. There were terrible discussions and he was pretending to be even "sicker" as a result. Even demanding me to nurse him.
When I started to take his affliction more serious, I found they were getting less frequent. It's just validating his feelings of sickness (which might be real in ways of psychosomatic) and then to be consistent about it. "So honey, stay in bed, as this will fasten your recovery", no netflix-watching, better to sleep (he does it anyway, but I keep telling this to him), and when I finally suggest to him that he should not come with me to meet some friends this evening - this is when he's "feeling a lot better" from one second to next. I will even tell these friends that he's having a cold/a flu and that he stayed in bed all day because of it. And this is when he admits that it hasn't been too bad actually.
It does not solve all the problems, but it's workin well for reducing these nasty discussions, we all really do not care about.
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Hmcbart
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« Reply #6 on: September 08, 2016, 11:32:13 AM »

Thanks for all the replies. 

Arlieburke: those are the boundaries that I am going to be placing soon.  If you want to be apart of this marriage you have to contribute.  The last time I said this she started acting like a spoiled kid so there is that to look forward to.

Jessica: she does have depression and that could very well have a lot to do with it. She is on meds fir depression but they don't really seem to help much in my opinion. She was also given meds for dizziness but the doctor couldn't figure out the cause and the meds don't really seem to work all that well because she continues to complain about it. The one thing I know for sure that will induce a headache and dizziness if for me to bring up sex.  It's my superpower. I can make her suck by saying one little word.

Settingborders: she tends to act like your boyfriend. If she wants to do something or from what I have noticed wants others to see her as a great wife and mother, she can and does.  But when the audience goes away it all comes back.  I used to cater to her and treat her like my patient but I don't anymore. It's lead to her telling me I don't care and I'm mean etc etc.  if there is a real illness abd I'm pretty good at spotting those, I will do my best to take care of her but when they look and sound fake or at least psychosomatic, I don't do to much anymore.  She does try to get the kids to help her when I won't of if I'm gone for work but when I'm there they stay around me and we ignore her requests for things she could easily do herself.
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livednlearned
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« Reply #7 on: September 08, 2016, 12:18:55 PM »

Hi Hmcbart,

It's hard when you have to pull the full load yourself. I imagine your resentment is building. Is there something you can do to fill your own cup that is maybe unrelated to her? Even if you feel guilty doing it, perhaps there is a small change you can make in your schedule to take care of yourself. Otherwise, this resentment will build.

BPD loved ones in my life are/were all very somatic. It can drive you nuts. A mosquito bite, a small scratch, a bump -- everything is magnified. I did read some research about somatic or sensory regulation in people with BPD and like their emotional states, it does seem that they are much more susceptible to pain. In one paper, I read that it seems possible that opioids make them feel normal instead of feeling high because of this that or the other biochemistry that sets them at a different default for pain reception. I also think socially, we are much more sympathetic to physical pain than emotional pain, so some people with BPD naturally channel their distressed state into something physical because they are more likely to be get the validation they crave.

Your superpower may actually be that you recognize she will act like a great wife and mother if others notice. Maybe she rises to the occasion when others see her as competent and capable, and that's the secret -- she reflects what others see in her.  I know it's hard to do this, it took me all summer just to figure out how to say one simple phrase to bring my BPD loved out from a child-like ego state to an adult one. When I validated her competence, she mirrored back to me a person who was capable. When her dad treated her as incapable, she regressed to a much younger child-like state. It didn't cure her BPD, and it didn't get her to transform into a full-blown adult. It did give me hope that my behavior could improve her's, if even only for a short while.

It is hard to figure out how to say and do things that support her and you at the same time.

Maybe the best way is to try positive reinforcement when she does something well, or endeavor to have people there and point out how well she did, how it seems to be even more helpful than anything she does to try and feel better?
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Hmcbart
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« Reply #8 on: September 08, 2016, 05:35:46 PM »

So far this week, since Sunday she has been sick with dizziness or a headache every day but yesterday.  She seemed fine on the phone today but by the time I got home she was laying down saying she had a headache.  I'm either resentful or just mean but it's growing quite comical anymore.
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livednlearned
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« Reply #9 on: September 09, 2016, 10:54:45 AM »

Can you describe how the family tends to her? Is she getting out of bed or doing anything for herself when she's feeling sick?
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Hmcbart
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« Reply #10 on: September 09, 2016, 11:17:15 AM »

Yes, she does get out of bed and gets something to eat or go to the bathroom.  She came downstairs and got dinner after I picked up something for everyone on the way home. She then took it back upstairs to eat it.  That's a typical scenario at my house. She doesn't usually eat with the boys abd I, even if she hasn't been complaining of illness. 

As far as the family tending too her.  If I'm nit around she will have the boys bring stuff to her upstairs.  Food and water, stuff like that. If she is complaining of a headache or something she will have them get her a wet wash cloth to put over her eyes or a heating pad for her neck.  She doesn't ask me as much anymore because I don't jump and do it right away I think.  I finish what I'm doing first then if I remember I may help her or I may not depends on what's going on at the time.  I guess you could say she training the boys to be her care takers.  At least that how it seems to me. 
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« Reply #11 on: September 09, 2016, 11:38:20 AM »

Do you feel comfortable having a family meeting with the boys about what is going on, and how best to handle it? It might be a good life lesson to learn to put themselves first so that they don't fall into a similar role quite so easily.
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Hmcbart
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« Reply #12 on: September 09, 2016, 01:09:14 PM »

I have spoken with them one on one but not too extensively. 

New day, another headache.  I texted her and told her to go to the urgent care and was basically blasted by her because she felt I was unhappy that I was being asked to get the boys from school.  I told her that I did not have a problem with picking up the boys.  I said I have a problem with you suffering with the headaches 4-5 days a week and that's why I told her to go to the urgent care.  What followed was a lot of projection I believe.  Basically I was told that if she asks me to do something, I jump up and do it but when she asks I blow up.

I can't force her to get help, as much as I really want to some days.
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« Reply #13 on: September 10, 2016, 04:10:21 AM »

Her motivation is need and immediate gratification. Putting on the show for visitors is fulfilling a need to be seen as competent.

To actually be competent on a daily basis takes motivation based in responsibility and obligation. She does not have this.

Even when she does do something after you have made a fuss it will be done to make an impression on you, or make a point. It will not be done because she feels it needs to be done. So it doesn't last as the motivation is inappropriate.

Constantly being sick could be part of the avoidance path of convincing both herself, and you, as to why she isn't actually incompetent, as she can't admit it, so needs a reason. It becomes an entrenched pattern of behavior.

Truth is she probably never will be, and you will drive yourself nuts trying to make it happen. She simply does not view tasks in the same light as you do.

It is hard watching someone waste their life away one day at a time. Just make sure you dont do the same by association. No point pushing someone who is not self motivated. Its like pushing rocks around, it just drains you

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« Reply #14 on: September 10, 2016, 07:01:40 AM »

Is there any chance to get her wanting to impress the boys?

I also find it toxic how she is treating them. Maybe you should have another talk with them about how they feel about it and - depending on their age - to teach them coping mechanisms and self-competence. Are there some kid's courses on assertiveness/self defense available where you're living? That might make them start to think and help them in other life situations, too.
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Hmcbart
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« Reply #15 on: September 11, 2016, 12:09:10 AM »

Thanks for the ideas.  My oldest is speaking up more but I fear it will just make it worse for him. He's almost 14 and tends to talk back. I have let him know that I won't tolerate him talking back but that if she is going overboard I have his back and will stand up for him. I just don't want him trying to use that as an excuse for talking back to her.  The youngest is 9 and H watches everything that happens to his brother so he knows how to navigate it a little better.  He is basically learning to walk on eggshells.

Waverider- I understand what you were saying about trying to motivate.  Sadly the boys need a mother and I need my wife (or at least I try to need her).  At some point enough is enough but I don't know how to have that conversation.  Everything I say to help the situation gets turned around and blamed on me or something else.   At some point I feel that placating her isn't and validation isn't going to help.  I feel trapped by it really. It's wearing me down more now than before I realized what was actually happening. 

I've just moved us to a new location and need to find a therapist for myself first. Then I will begin trying to figure out how to help my kids. 
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