Need help with repeat conversations that end badly

[Cloudy Days]

My husband will be awake in the morning before I go to work and I have noticed he seems to be very active and have a lot of thoughts which is fine. I prefer to be alone in the morning so that I can be on time to work. Anyways, the conversation always comes up about something he wants to buy or do that costs a lot of money. He wants to add on a lot to a house we are actually considering selling and moving. I don't understand why he wants to spend money on it. Yesterday it was about his vehicle and all of the cosmetic things that he wants to fix. I usually say something along the lines of that seems wasteful or maybe when we have some extra money but right now we are trying to save money.

I realize that he most likely isn't going to buy 80% of what he talks about buying. But I have a hard time saying yea that sounds like a good purchase because then he would feel that he has my approval to buy whatever it is. How do I talk to him about these things without invalidating his want to have them. One of my biggest complaints about my husband is that he has no sense of being poor. He always acts like we have a ton of money or that we are going to have a ton of money in the future. I have struggled to make ends meet my entire life and I watched my parents do it too so I have a much better idea of what it is like to be poor. I don't even think about things like building onto our house unless we have money to do it because it's just stressful to me thinking about how we would pay for such a thing. Money is one of my anxiety triggers, I am always worried we don't have enough. My husband worries about the next thing that is going to take his mind off of his misery. I know he looks for things to purchase to distract himself but I have a hard time not getting triggered by the constant I want comments and suggestions and requests, which then triggers him because he says I crush his dreams.

I understand what is triggering him, I just am not sure how I should respond otherwise.

[RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING]

RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members are welcomed to express frustration but must seek constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[Conundrum]

Hi, concerning trivial proposed purchases that get him all excited--is it really worth the angst raining on his disordered parade. Even if you've run the numbers and know it's excessive--like you mentioned 80% of the time he doesn't follow through. Perhaps, a simple statement such as "that sounds interesting, or that sounds fun for you" etc., may suffice.

However, contemplating large expenses such as a home addition--the above may still apply, with modification. "That sounds interesting. Let's run it by a certified financial planner and get their take." Schedule a consult and see how he reacts. If he backtracks, it was a grandiose plan and you led him to daylight. If he still is pushing the issue--keep the appointment and let the financial planner read him the riot act (that it's a poor fiscal decision). It's probably worth the upfront expense to retain a pro--thereby saving a boatload on the back-end.     

[ArleighBurke]

My BPDw is similar. Always trying to fix her internal feelings by changing her external environment.

I agree with Conundrum: don't sweat the small stuff. Work out (in your head) how much you think it's ok for him to spend on junk - and agree with him on the small stuff ("that would look great!". Or even GIVE him the $$ you are ok with - then you can make him see the impact of his spending.

For the big stuff, I often agree to "temporary" solutions first, before I make major changes to the home. So my wife had a grand plan to convert the garage to a gym so she could work out. She wanted to build a new carport over the driveway for the car, and put aircon into the garage, and carpet it, and build a new shed for all the stuff that's currently in the garage. Instead, I bought $20 of carpet, moved all the stuff to a corner, and parked on the driveway, setup the gym and said "let's see how this works first". She NEVER used it. After about a month, I packed it all up again and she never  mentioned it again. I like the "try before you buy" option where possible... .

Perhaps you can "entertain the dream" with him for a while - then bring him back to reality. I do this with holidays. "Europe - yeah! Waking up in Paris would certainly be romantic... .Perhaps we'll do that once we pay off the house! or when the kids leave home".

[Cloudy Days]

I will try harder to try these out. Today he has demonized me because he asked for several hundred dollars to just go to him, no questions asked. If we had more money this wouldn't be a problem but we have been so behind lately and he still wants to keep spending. I don't konw what to do. I told him I would show him how everything works out so he can see for himself why I can't just give him a couple hundred bucks and he is now disowning me and asking for a divorce.

Like I want to sweat over money all the time and be the bad guy. I just want to be able to pay our bills on time.

[BowlOfPetunias]

With my wife, a trip to Disney is often a source of conflict.  She has it in her head that she needs to take our kids there in order to be a good mother.  Our son went when he was 5.  He's 13 now, and probably would be bored--he loves EXTREME coasters.  Our daughter is 7, but I don't think it will kill her to not go to Disney World--especially since we get Six Flags passes every year and hit several of their parks.  In the meantime, we are behind on the mortgage, credit cards, and other bills.  The house really needs work.  Unexpected things like car accidents and unexpected back taxes come up.  I have loans against my retirement savings.  And college savings? Zip. (I have pointed out that the kids would benefit a lot more from help with the college than a trip to Disney.)

In the past, she had it in her head that she had to be a stay-at-home mom in order to be a good mother--even if that meant not being able to pay the rent to have a home stay in!

[Grey Kitty]

Radical acceptance and boundaries are your answers.

1. Accept that your H doesn't really understand money, and will impulsively spend it on something... .hoping to make himself feel better, to fill the emotional void inside himself... .and soon after discover that it didn't work, that the void is still there.

2. Don't let him control your finances. Be responsible in how you spend money, and know that if you give him money, it probably won't be spent that way. And that if he gets money from another source, it also probably won't be spent responsibly.

3. When it comes to boundary enforcement, don't try to change his mind.

You won't convince him that what he wants to spend money on is irresponsible. Don't try.

You can convince him that you WON'T give him money for it / sign for the loan / etc. That is much easier than convincing him you are doing it for a good and valid reason.

Sometimes you have to let him paint you as the bad guy. You don't have to believe it. You also don't have to convince him otherwise. If you try, you will be invalidating him / JADEing all over the place.

In other words... .he WILL repeat these circular arguments/etc. They will end badly. All you can do is send them quickly to the bad end by getting yourself out of the conversation early!

[Cloudy Days]

Today he is demanding that I give him $400 every month. When we litterally have like $800 to live on so he would be screwing us over. I even explained to him that would leave us with $400 to feed 5 dogs and buy gas and food, and he said he doesn't care, figure it out. He has access to our account, he usually doesn't spend without asking. I don't know what has made him start this. Is there any way to get him to see it is an unreasonable demand? I can't take his name off of the account without his permission. I get demonized because we don't have money, it just doesn't make sense to me. I know I am not what he says I am. It just makes it hard to focus on work when I am stressed out. I am at work now, typing this out instead of working.

He brings in money from his social security and claims it is his money. My entire income goes to bills, all of it. His income is what we end up living off of. He's not seeing it as us, he's seeing as him vs me. I feel so lonely and unsupported because he is so selfish. He complains we don't have good enough food, but then wants to spend $60 on one meal leaving us with less to buy actual groceries. He creates everything that I get demonized for. I feel like I am in the twilight zone.

I am suppose to get a small chunk of money that is an inheritance from my father and grandmother passing away and he is making a huge deal about how it is his money because we are married. It's really making me wonder why I try so hard to make things work. We are not a team. He is not my friend, he is not my partner and he barely acts like my husband and that makes me really depressed.

I radically accept so much about him, about our relationship. It's split about 90% me 10% him at this point as far as effort goes. I wouldn't even know where to begin if I even wanted to leave, or allowed myself to want to leave. I think I have myself brainwashed that it's not possible so I don't even allow it as an option. I'm so exhausted from being cornered into decisions I don't want to make. I've really started to just give up on caring and take every day moment by moment because I have nothing to look forward to. I go to a job that is really stressful because I am learning and I mess up a lot. and then I go home to someone who seems to hate me for one reason or another. I don't just sit and listen, but it doesn't change the fact that I never get peace. The last two weeks he has been off on his sleeping schedule so he has been sleeping while I am home at night. Then he tells me he doesn't feel close to me. How can you feel close to someone you avoid being around? Again, a problem created by him and I get the blame. I get it he is disordered. He has months where I feel like things are much better and then he slips back into dysfunction, and it's always different than it was before.

[Grey Kitty]

Is there any way to get him to see it is an unreasonable demand?

NO. You cannot make him think that his demand is unreasonable. Absolutely impossible.

What you CAN do is convince him that you find it unacceptable, and will not discuss it (further), and that he cannot change your mind.

Are you willing to do that, and stick to it?

Whether he will drain the account over your objections is a whole 'nuther question.

[ArleighBurke]

Cloudy Days: I hear how weary and drained you are! Living with a BPD is difficult. Certainly the techiques here may make life easier, but it will never be smooth sailing. You need to decide if this is something that you can do forever or not.

Just remember, your own health is #1 priority. You cannot support him and your relationship on empty. How much self care do you have? Can you fit exercise and friends in your life?

[Sunfl0wer]

Not sure if this helps or not... .

I'm pretty sure that if he gets $800 or so in social security there was a budget done for that amount and the budget included contributions towards rent and other living expenses.  Cause to get SSD benefits in that amount, which is higher end, requires rent as part of the budget.

Now you may actually mean SSI, not SSD, or something else, so idk, I could be way wrong but just thought I'd throw that out there.

The reason I mention this is I know someone else who helps curb the partner spending by reminding him he can be audited and asked to prove his monies received for disability went to pay for "needs" and such.  Sometimes they may ask for bank statements, or maybe not unless a review is requested which may be rare?  Idk, the thought alone is enough to get that guy using the direct deposit account for mostly need items.

(Sorry if I didn't express that well)

[Cloudy Days]

I ended up talking to him about it, I think texting sets him off and he has since dropped the subject of getting $400 a month. I try to do things for myself, I am actually going on a work trip in about a month that will give me a break. You wouldn't think so but the last one was enjoyable. I know the tools aren't a fix all, heck I haven't even skimmed the surface, what was working is not working now. I end up getting very stressed out and my husband doesn't let up whether I am having a bad day or not.

Having money problems just makes everything even harder. He still wants to spend money, he asks every day, and has even started this thing where he will lie to me and tell me he bought something just to see my reaction. I'm scratching my head as to why he thinks this is ok. It just makes me not trust what he says to me. I already question his sanity at times, now I have to question whether he is telling the truth.

We are ok for now, I am hoping he stays how he has been for the past couple of days just so I can feel ok for awhile. It takes so much out of you when every single day you want to pull your hair out from stress. Not just coming from him but work and animals too.

[Grey Kitty]

  Ugh, that is difficult.

I guess testing you and prodding you is better than pushing the household into worse financial consequences directly.

Good to hear that taking it out of a text message conversation helped.

Do you want help, suggestions, or coaching applying tools to a specific conversation? I'm sure you have been here long enough to think you "should" know... .just the same, trust me, it can help to just describe the situation and run though your options.