Finally settled after 2 years and 8 months of conflict

[Moselle]

Whew. It been a rough, rough journey.

But the settlement and paretning plan is though and signed.

I have suspensive conditions that make the settlement null and void, if she deviates form the plan between now and the effective date of divorce.

She deperately wants to mary the new boyfriend, so she has gone from hostile, uncooperative, dangerous and alienating, to 100% cooperative and helpful in the space of one day!

I don't expect it to last.

Any tips on managing the post divorce relationship?

[ReclaimingMyLife]

No tips but a HUGE CONGRATULATIONS!

Very happy for you,
RML

[Ishenuts]

Post divorce advise? Don't let your guard down. They can't change. Continued manipulation, gas lighting, lying, etc.

Congratulations and good luck!

[Moselle]

Post divorce advise? Don't let your guard down. They can't change. Continued manipulation, gas lighting, lying, etc.

Congratulations and good luck!

Thanks for the heads up.

Well I hope she goes on a rampage,  because she just signed a document that says if she reverts to disorder, the kids come to me.

No tips but a HUGE CONGRATULATIONS!

Very happy for you,
RML

Thanks RML

[david]

Boundaries.

[Nope]

Well I hope she goes on a rampage,  because she just signed a document that says if she reverts to disorder, the kids come to me.

Does that document have concrete statements of what she must and must not do? Or is the language open to reinterpretation? Also, Is that document enforceable?

My advice is to keep documenting everything. Even after all papers are signed and the ink is dry. You never know when you'll end up back in court or in a new situation of her creating that requires some leverage or evidence. It's time consuming and we'd like those days to behind us once the initial battle is over but that is all too often not the way things work out.

[Moselle]

Thanks nope,

We'll be back in court before long, I can assure you. I worked hard on this, its 32 pages long and very specific. She can't cooperate.

[flourdust]

Hey, I understand your pessimism, but I'm still very pleased for you. No, there are never any guarantees of stability with BPD, but you've won the best victory you can today -- that's all you can ask for!

[Moselle]

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[Moselle]

Thanks Flour dust,

The fun has started already. She has asked for the children to attend an event at her church on my weekend. I said no problem. Would she mind if she attend the dress rehearsal with her boyfriend and I attend the main event as I did the reverse last year.

She replied saying "I've decided to attend  the main event and if I read the agreement we just signed we agree to "cooperate for the good of the children".

The reason for my reticence is that the last time we agreed to do this kind of thing, she arrived with her boyfriend ( my ex friend ) his three children and newborn baby (he divorced his pregnant ex to move in with my StbEx and my 3 children).

She made a big scene and entrance with lots of noise and fanfare. My 3 children run straight to her out of fear or loyalty to this blended 9 person family.

By the the way his ex also attends. And his family (whom i know very well) approached me to ask if I would consider dating his ex! Yes - that's true! My very diplomatic response with a big smile "No thanks"

I call him Jerry Springer and this whole thing the Jerry Springer show :-)

She conveniently did not quote the clause which states that "she agrees not to intervene with or communicate with the children during my weekend as this causes conflict and tension"
 
Bear in mind my ex is dangerous and uncooperative. 5 attempted (and failed) DV applications, police appearance during my visitation. The list goes on.

I've decided not to make a federal case out of it, attend, grin and bear it. At least until the divorce is through. I intend to be as amicable and cooperative as possible. However there will eventually be a legal case. I want primary care of my children.

Any tips on staying sane through the parades , facades and other nonsense?

Any tips in general on how to manage this relationship post divorce? Is it possible? I at least want to try to show a positive intent if/when that case is heard.

[Sunfl0wer]

Would she mind if she attend the dress rehearsal with her boyfriend and I attend the main event as I did the reverse last year.

Sounds like deciding on where the child goes IS governed by a parenting plan.  However, what you decide to attend and she decides to attend, is governed by your personal choices.

I am confused... .
Why are you two negotiating which adults will attend when this is not a law enforceable thing?

Seems to me PP (parenting plan) delineates where child will be.  
Adults independently decide (not dependently decide) where they will be.

Is this an issue of restraining order? Or something else I am not grasping?

If this is not a parenting plan or otherwise legal issue, why would either if you be complicating matters by attempting negotiations on adult behaviors? 

... .Apologies if I am misunderstanding something here!

[Moselle]

Sunfl0wer.

Thanks for your note.

For example, there have been altercations with her brother in law deliberately bumping into me trying to pick a fight at church whilst I was holding the hand of my 12 year old.  I just managed to contain myelf and get out before I removed his head from his shoulders . They all (family of 8 plus inlaws) get in my face and provoke me hoping that I will retaliate. I only have so much patience, so I decided to remove myself from the situations where there was potential conflict, ie not be in the presence of the ex. As it always ended up with distress for the children, and I really was going to clean this BIL's clock.

So I am quite nervous of attending things together. My ex is very high functioning and so clever at positioning me as the abuser, her as the victim and recruiting willing family and her friends to be extremely antagonistic, aggressive and isolating towards me. Churches can be the worst at this, They really can. They think they are protecting a victim meanwhile they are hoodwinked by her.

Perhaps I am being a bit pedantic and should grow a thicker skin. It's going to be like that. I will work on just smiling and be there for the children.

[Reforming]

Hi Moselle,

First of all congratulations on navigating your way through the last 2 years and 8 months

It sounds you're faced with a very challenging situation rampant with triggers. It also sounds like you're being very wise.

I've never been through it myself. I'm not sure that I can offer any helpful advice but here's my 2 cents.

Keep a record of all your interaction with her - I'm sure you're doing this already.

Be wary of meeting her without witnesses.

Be rock solid in your boundaries but allow some space for compassion. I'm sure you're doing this already and I realise that it's hard but despite all the hurt she has inflicted on you she's still the mother of your children.

Recognise that this is a totally new relationship. I know this is hard but you're building from the ground up.

Develop some what if strategies to help deal with triggers. You seem to be managing an incredibly difficult situation amazingly but there's going to be times when your reserves are low. Having an emergency plan in place can be a huge help.

No matter how disordered she is be wary of making your children feel that they have to choose between you and her. They probably know who she is but she's still their mother. Children are amazingly perceptive and wise and they can read our behaviour and intentions very well. I know they need to be safe but try and give them the time and space to come to their own conclusions. They'll be grateful in the long term.

Be kind to yourself. You're dealing with an awful lot.

PS if you do manage to get full custody get the hell out of that place. It's sounds crazy.

The best of luck

Reforming

[Sunfl0wer]

Just thinking... .

Not really sure you really can be doing anything in this situation other than setting your own boundaries.

Trying to set boundaries on others or make arrangements on trying to avoid her family which are dependent on her cooperation, or someone elses in her family... . Well is its own "crazy making," no?  

Idk, my experience with persons with a personality disorder is that their cooperation is based on a pay off, not the motivation to actually be considerate of me.
For example, if my sis actually was engaged in communications to appear cooperative, it was the attention and sense of importance she enjoyed from the conversation... .With little to no interest on actually following through with being considerate. Or if she was appearing to be considerate, it was for a different "pay off" for her with intention to ask for something out of me later using FOG to manipulate something else or such.

I assume it is always a bad idea to rely on persons who historically take advantage during "negotiations" or "compromises" and appear to be doing such not in good faith.

Maybe this needs to be in the legal section? "To cooperate for the good of the children" does not force you to attend any event on your parenting time.  It is your time, likely not a good idea to begin by allowing her to dictate what you do with the kids on your time with them especially if last time it lead to what it did.  On the other hand, if this is some play or such a kid is in, maybe worth planning how to go, make it not dependent on her, bring a friend as a "witness" or such? Maybe others have strategies for using recordings during bad interactions? (I'm sure this may be escalating, or such, but I know in the right context, this has helped some, idk though best context in your case) Arrange to sit next to/with a church member that she would not speak bad things in front of?  Idk, just trying to come up with ideas that count on her and her family making a scene so you are protected, vs counting on her behaving, then being frustrated.

Idk, if you feel compelled to attend for the sake of the kids, maybe discuss on legal and also discuss options in setting boundaries?

Oh, and to be honest, my ex's ex really got my blood boiling mad so I took a beta blocker if I thought I would encounter her cause it would keep my heart from racing and keep me more cool headed.  It worked wonders!  (It is gentle, not an anti anxiety med, prescribed to me for stage fright type anxiety.)

[sad but wiser]

Congratulations on a hurdle passed!
  Once she gets married, everything will be up for "renegotiation" in her mind.  They just have to win, and win, and win, and win... .so all bets are off and her part of the deal doesn't matter.  
   That said, once she violates the agreement, you can take her back to court.  Of course, you will look petty to the court, because they don't know how it is, how it has been, etc.
   However, there should be a sweet period where she is more than willing to let you have the child(ren) extra if you want.  I think I'd insist on the agreement's terms.

Good luck to you!

[Moselle]

PS if you do manage to get full custody get the hell out of that place. It's sounds crazy.

If you add my FOO to the mix it sets a new level of crazy :-)

I am already out of that place. I live 6 hours away and drive there every two weeks to visit them. It's like cra cra city. It must be in the water. Lol

[pallavirajsinghani]

I think that you are in somewhat a potentially dangerous situation.  I think that it would be wise to wear glasses that have a camera or a button with a camera during these events.  Yes, I know that it is illegal in some cases, but understand that no one gets prosecuted if you are not misusing the footage.  It is only in case the people who are trying to provoke you later on call the cops and complain that you actually retaliated. 

Yes, I would love everyone to chime in with their critiques and better suggestions... .

[Moselle]

Thanks Palla. I agree. It's not a very healthy thing. I am going to start recording all calls made by her to ensure she doesnt accuse me later.

In the meantime she is in breach on this settlement agreement and parenting plan 

Why am I not surprised?

I decided not to get upset and I decided to send a shot across-the-bow email to her lawyer and the mediator highlighting the things that need immediate improvement.

I made it a Matter of record and reserve the right to cancel the settlement if there is no improvement.