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Author Topic: When a circular argument begins  (Read 472 times)
Moselle
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Gender: Male
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Ex-romantic partner
Relationship status: Divorced
Posts: 1899


Every day is a gift. Live it fully


« on: October 16, 2016, 10:36:43 AM »

It feels impossible to have any kind of cooperation with my ex.

She can only see her own point of view. And if she screams at me over the phone (like today) and i hang up, she sends an email to me saying that I was abusive towards her.

She continues to alienate me from the children.

She is incredibly high functioning and very very clever.

How do I get out of her way and on with my life?
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bus boy
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Posts: 908


« Reply #1 on: October 16, 2016, 07:12:09 PM »

HI Moselle, I know exactly how you feel. My Xw is very high functioning and clever, they are the most dangerous. I was talking to a friend today and he said his Xw was just crazy not clever and crazy, they are the dangerous ones he said. My Xw is 100% unreasonable, NEVER wrong, very devious, emotionally abusive, really knows how to make me feel like a nothing. A year ago she met another man and have been living together ever since. She has been a pure piece of the devil ever since. She has always been a piece of the devil but worse now. I don't let her in my head anymore. We share a child but I am 99% nc. I don't talk to her, don't respond to her texts, if Xw says s10 is doing bad in school, I meet with the teacher to find the truth. I took back my power, I give her nothing to twist back on to me, on the very rare ocation I talk to her, I keep it on topic than hang up if that fails. I have turned the tables on her and have put her totally out of my life and mind. I have a good court order and I don't let Xw get her fingers in there and twist it all around, I stick to the order and hold her to it. In the past I let her walk all over me and the order. Now I'm the #1 enemy but I don't care. I have my son and my court order. I have detached from her now I am able to move my life and my relationship with s10 forward.
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Panda39
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What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Romantic partner’s ex
Relationship status: SO and I have been together 9 years and have just moved in together this summer.
Posts: 3462



« Reply #2 on: October 16, 2016, 07:32:17 PM »

What helped my SO was communicating with his uBPDxw via email.  Respond only to things directly relating to the children and nothing else.  Circular arguments almost always come about when we start to JADE.  If she wants to talk about the kids doctor appointment that is time to respond.  If she wants to attack your parenting skills then don't respond.  Email allows you slow things down, to not have a knee jerk response, and take the time to think about if a response is even warranted.

Panda39
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"Have you ever looked fear in the face and just said, I just don't care" -Pink
Moselle
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Gender: Male
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Ex-romantic partner
Relationship status: Divorced
Posts: 1899


Every day is a gift. Live it fully


« Reply #3 on: October 16, 2016, 08:29:35 PM »

I stick to the order and hold her to it. In the past I let her walk all over me and the order.

Bus boy. Please can in ask your advice?

We. signed a parenting plan and settlement agreement last wee tuesday. She is already in breach of it. Refused me contact with the children, screaming at me on the phone in front of them (conflict,) , lying about their whereabouts. Refusing to stick to it.

I have three children with her and live 6 hours away, I have driven every 2nd weekend to see them for 18 months.

She is desperate to marry her boyfriend, so signed a settlement agreement which is advantageous to me. But now thinks that a compliance against it is completely optional.

I have a suspensive condition in the agreement that should she not abide by the agreement between the signing and effective divorce date, that the settlement becomes null and void.

I am shattered, tired, and I can't do this any more.

I am at my wit's end. I just don't want to do this any more. And the children are becoming alienated. I have no more energy or money to spend on this. And I am feeling like I want to just give up. I have tried to think of her as a sick person but she actually is a crook, fraudster ( credit card and insurance) and highly dangerous.

What do you think I should do?
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Moselle
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What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Ex-romantic partner
Relationship status: Divorced
Posts: 1899


Every day is a gift. Live it fully


« Reply #4 on: October 17, 2016, 03:26:09 AM »

I wanted to be the adult and I wanted to be one step ahead. Not one step behind so I wrote a "Matter of record" email to her lawyer, and the mediator stating that what had been done that was positive (precious little) and what had not been done in the settlement agreement. Basically putting her on notice.

I realise I can't control her. But I can document what she does/doesn't do and I can be one step ahead.  That's what i choose to do. Hold her accountable but give her choices.
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bus boy
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Posts: 908


« Reply #5 on: October 17, 2016, 04:00:11 AM »

Moselle, you can't give up. I know all to well where you are. I did a settlement agreement with Xw last December. She was pushing me very hard to cut back on access, she was using her master manuplation skills on me, I felt just like you do. I kept posting on here and the good people posted back, do not give up on your son. My T said your son needs you. I was in a bad state of mind but I kept pushing, I kept a detailed journal, I held her to the court order. When the settlement came up for review I filed for trial bc Xw done to many things through out the course of the settlement agreement. Xw was wild, to bad for her. All she had to do was fake it, act human for 9 months and this whole process would be over but now I am holding her accountable for her actions. Court is in November, the judge all ready contacted our lawyers and held Xw accountable for some of her actions. If I gave up I would be back where I was, that's what Xw was counting on. She didn't need me as a father in s10's life, she has a new man. I hung in, went through the pain, at my darkest times I cried, found the strength to keep pushing. As far as keeping one step ahead I don't even try. I stick to the court order and keep her accountable for her actions. It's a mentally exhausting process but well worth it in the end. I see a big change in my r/s with s10. My heart breaks for you. Hold your ex accountable and don't let her manuplate the court order. Your children need you.
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Moselle
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Gender: Male
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Ex-romantic partner
Relationship status: Divorced
Posts: 1899


Every day is a gift. Live it fully


« Reply #6 on: October 17, 2016, 04:24:32 AM »

Moselle, you can't give up. I know all to well where you are. I did a settlement agreement with Xw last December. She was pushing me very hard to cut back on access, she was using her master manuplation skills on me, I felt just like you do. I kept posting on here and the good people posted back, do not give up on your son. My T said your son needs you. I was in a bad state of mind but I kept pushing, I kept a detailed journal, I held her to the court order. When the settlement came up for review I filed for trial bc Xw done to many things through out the course of the settlement agreement. Xw was wild, to bad for her. All she had to do was fake it, act human for 9 months and this whole process would be over but now I am holding her accountable for her actions. Court is in November, the judge all ready contacted our lawyers and held Xw accountable for some of her actions. If I gave up I would be back where I was, that's what Xw was counting on. She didn't need me as a father in s10's life, she has a new man. I hung in, went through the pain, at my darkest times I cried, found the strength to keep pushing. As far as keeping one step ahead I don't even try. I stick to the court order and keep her accountable for her actions. It's a mentally exhausting process but well worth it in the end. I see a big change in my r/s with s10. My heart breaks for you. Hold your ex accountable and don't let her manuplate the court order. Your children need you.

I'm trying bus boy. I don't have any resources left. Emotional, financial. I hope I can find a way 
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Tobiasfunke
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Who in your life has "personality" issues: Ex-romantic partner
Posts: 91


« Reply #7 on: October 17, 2016, 05:37:06 AM »

Take a minute and regroup. These feelings will pass and you will find the strength to carry on. Your focus is on the kids. Document your plans for them on a YouTube page or something like that. This way they can check it out that there was a standing plan for you to be with them. That you had an agenda and a standing agreement with your ex and that she was not compliant. You will prevail just stay the course.
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Moselle
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Gender: Male
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Ex-romantic partner
Relationship status: Divorced
Posts: 1899


Every day is a gift. Live it fully


« Reply #8 on: October 17, 2016, 08:46:06 AM »

Document your plans for them on a YouTube page or something like that. This way they can check it out that there was a standing plan for you to be with them. That you had an agenda and a standing agreement with your ex and that she was not compliant

Thanks Tobiasfunke. I read appreciate the encouragement. What do you mean document it on YouTube? That sounds really cool.

I should send a verbal message to them on YouTube?
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earlgrey
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Who in your life has "personality" issues: Romantic partner
Posts: 273



« Reply #9 on: October 17, 2016, 09:18:47 AM »

Moselle - you have been there many times with support when I was passing through difficult times, and I thank you.

I'm not sure I have the experience and knowledge you have so my help may be limited. But what I will say is keep your destination in mind. You will get tired. You will need rest. But your energy and strength will return for you to carry on your mission.

You can make. We all will make it.
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Moselle
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What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Ex-romantic partner
Relationship status: Divorced
Posts: 1899


Every day is a gift. Live it fully


« Reply #10 on: October 17, 2016, 11:02:21 AM »

Thanks EG.  Doing the right thing (click to insert in post)
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bus boy
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Posts: 908


« Reply #11 on: October 17, 2016, 06:06:46 PM »

Moselle, the strength is there. My T told me to dig deep, it's there. I'm not religious but I do believe, I turned it over to god. I thank God every day, through out the day, when I go to bed. I thank God for the good and the bad. When I had my brain tumor I thanked god, prayed for strength, I didn't say why me, I said why not me, it has to be someone. I apply this thinking to what I am facing now. I was at the end of my mental rope, I kept pushing and digging for the strength to continue, sometimes I wouldn't leave the house for days. As far as finances to pay for my legal bills I work side jobs. I let go and let God.
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Moselle
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Gender: Male
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Ex-romantic partner
Relationship status: Divorced
Posts: 1899


Every day is a gift. Live it fully


« Reply #12 on: October 17, 2016, 09:06:05 PM »

I've been religious my whole life but I'm struggling with this and with God. I don't say "why me?" but I do say "why 3 innocent children?" . Why should three innocent children be hurt by their own mother to get back at me? More than hurt, emotionally and mentally handicapped by an abusive mother. When she's in that place it looks demonic. Her eyes are wild and she is not present . The damage that she does to innocent little children is massive.

Never did I think that i would one day be paying for therapy to help my children recover from the damage inflicted by their own mother.

Last week I was signing the settlement and i have a whole page dedicated to Borderline, Narcissistic, Impulse control, obsessive, and eating disorders which she has been diagnosed with. And Co-dependence, from which I am in recovery.

As I sat there, her father asked me, please could i ask you to tone this page down? Talk about dysfunction maybe? I looked at him and said. "Why? Is this shameful? Don't you think my children deserve to know the truth? Then I said "no" and I put another clause in to harden it up, about " all parties accept these disorders as fact and agree to work together cooperatively to atone for the damage done to the children by them.

I refuse to be co-opted into the coalition of cover-uppers any more. She's accountable for her problems and I am for mine. I'm totally open now. I refuse to be silent about it. Because the longer we hide this stuff in shame, the longer the children have to suffer in silence.

Bring the ugly stuff out into the open.

I feel so angry when I think of small children subjected to this abuse and its debilitating effect on us. I say "us" because I was a child once, subjected to this horrible illness. I'm angry - I had no choice and the scars of that childhood run deep.

I am angry bus boy. I did not even know I was abused this way as a child until one year ago.

Wow Brain cancer? It's amazing to hear about your faith in God. "Let go, and Let God". I like that.

I notice a few things as I start seeing a new Moselle emerging. Days here and there which  are amazing, my thoughts and emotions able to recover more quickly from trigger/ excitation to baseline. More ability to regulate my emotions. A happier calmer person. The ability to feel emotions and express them. Less self righteousness and more compassion for people who struggle.

I'm trying to be grateful. Thanks for your example bus boy. And for the encouragement.  Doing the right thing (click to insert in post)
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bus boy
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What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Ex-romantic partner
Posts: 908


« Reply #13 on: October 19, 2016, 03:29:46 PM »

My T said we are all here for a reason, she said I was here to be the stable shining light in s10's life. You are the stable shining light for your children.
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Fie
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Who in your life has "personality" issues: Parent
Relationship status: Single
Posts: 803



« Reply #14 on: October 19, 2016, 03:50:31 PM »

Dear Moselle,


What Tobiasfunke said is so true, your feelings of desperateness will pass.

I'm hoping you will recenter soon and I'm sending you this poem as a sign I'm thinking of you.


This being human is a guest house.
Every morning a new arrival.
A joy, a depression, a meanness,
some momentary awareness comes
as an unexpected visitor.

Welcome and entertain them all!
Even if they are a crowd of sorrows,
who violently sweep your house
empty of its furniture,
still, treat each guest honorably.
He may be clearing you out
for some new delight.

The dark thought, the shame, the malice.
meet them at the door laughing and invite them in.

Be grateful for whatever comes.
because each has been sent
as a guide from beyond.

— Jellaludin Rumi,


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Moselle
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What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Ex-romantic partner
Relationship status: Divorced
Posts: 1899


Every day is a gift. Live it fully


« Reply #15 on: October 20, 2016, 09:57:27 AM »

Thanks Bus boy. Thanks Fie Doing the right thing (click to insert in post)
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