Home page of BPDFamily.com, online relationship supportMember registration here
March 29, 2024, 04:29:15 AM *
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Board Admins: Kells76, Once Removed, Turkish
Senior Ambassadors: Cat Familiar, EyesUp, SinisterComplex
  Help!   Boards   Please Donate Login to Post New?--Click here to register  
bing
VIDEO: "What is parental alienation?" Parental alienation is when a parent allows a child to participate or hear them degrade the other parent. This is not uncommon in divorces and the children often adjust. In severe cases, however, it can be devastating to the child. This video provides a helpful overview.
204
Pages: 1   Go Down
  Print  
Author Topic: charming?  (Read 478 times)
RedRock

*
Offline Offline

What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Ex-romantic partner
Posts: 10


« on: October 16, 2016, 02:20:29 PM »

Hello,

First off, I am new here, so I am not even sure if this is the right board to be posting this on.

I am looking for some information regarding relationship recycling.  Specifically, if anyone has experience dealing with their pwBPD using the child to re-engage the other parent.  My pwBPD has unexpectedly decided that we need to work together in the best interest of our child.  I thought we were, as best as could be expected while maintaining minimum contact. 

In our parenting plan, there is a clause designating dinnertime with the absent parent.  We meet at a designated point, conduct a polite, but short, exchange, and continue on our separate ways.  She decided the other night to invite me to dinner with her and our daughter “in the spirit of cooperation, so our daughter could see her parents getting along.”  This struck me as odd for several reasons: 1. Dinnertime is meant for the absent parent.  2. We have already agreed to be polite, for our daughter’s sake, and to work together on matters that involve only the daughter. 3. I thought we had been getting along, for quite some time.  Well, as much as one can with a person with BPD.   

My gut says that this is an attempt at “charming” or relationship recycling, using my soft spot: my daughter.  I want to know if others have had to deal with this, and how they did so.  She knows that I will do anything for my daughter. However, I feel that this “in the best interest” is nothing more than an attempt at re-engagement.  If it were coming from someone healthy, I would not have my doubts about the change in behavior.

Has anyone else experienced this, or something similar?  What did you learn about how to handle it, without looking like the high conflict parent?  Any other thoughts would also be appreciated.
Logged
Meili
********
Offline Offline

What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Ex-romantic partner
Posts: 2384


« Reply #1 on: October 17, 2016, 10:53:32 AM »

Co-parenting can be difficult enough without having to deal with a pwBPD. It's always a balance of what is right for the kid(s), right for you, and not upsetting the other parent. Sometimes the latter is not possible when ensuring the former two.

That being said, if the dinner time is just supposed to be your time, then politely decline the invite (if that's what you want to do) and say that you'd just like to spend the time alone with your daughter. By politely declining because you want alone time, no one can really fault you.

If you don't mind sharing then time, then share it. Just because you are around your ex does not mean that you have to get recycled. It's always our choice whether or not to re-engage.
Logged
RedRock

*
Offline Offline

What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Ex-romantic partner
Posts: 10


« Reply #2 on: October 17, 2016, 01:59:36 PM »

Thanks Meili.

As it happens, I turned down the first request, as politely as possible. I told her that "I would love to! But, I had already made other plans for my free time." This, of course, upset her, as it went against whatever plan she was working on.  I am not responsible for her feelings, but I'll be d*#+ed, if she didn't try to make me feel guilty about it.

My next question is, how could this get twisted in her mind? I am already hyper vigilant around her, but should I be taking extra precautions? Or will this blow over? How did it play out for others?

Logged
Mutt
Retired Staff
*
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Ex-romantic partner
Relationship status: Divorced Oct 2015
Posts: 10395



WWW
« Reply #3 on: October 17, 2016, 02:30:16 PM »

Hi RedRock,

Welcome

Excerpt
She decided the other night to invite me to dinner with her and our daughter “in the spirit of cooperation, so our daughter could see her parents getting along.”

I'd like to join Meili and welcome you. I can see how that would be confusing and I'd like to echo Meili, I'm just speculating but it could be that she feels bad about the split and wants to show co-operation for your D? Some experts say that BPD is a shamed based disorder and the person feels a lot of shame, low self esteem, low self worth and self loath. I think that it could be possible that she feels shame for having another r/s not work for her, and you probably already know this but pwBPD are hypersensitive to rejection, perceived or real and that's probably the reason why she over-reacted when you said that you had other plans. I hope that helps.
Logged

"Let go or be dragged" -Zen proverb
Meili
********
Offline Offline

What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Ex-romantic partner
Posts: 2384


« Reply #4 on: October 17, 2016, 02:35:04 PM »

That sounded like an excellent response!

Sadly, there's no telling how this could be twisted in her mind. For a pwBPD (person with BPD), feelings = fact, so whatever she felt will likely become a fact to her, and there's no real way to guard against whatever it turns out to be. Keeping a journal of events and log of communications is really about the best that you can do.

With my first ex-wife, who is the mother of my daughter, something like that would be twisted into my being a bad father and not caring about our daughter. Being able to show a methodical record helped dispel any accusations that she made. It's really hard for one person to argue from memory when the other has things well documented to substantiate their position.

It's not the most comfortable way to live, but it helps.

Or, you were asking from a position other than protection and co-parenting?
Logged
RedRock

*
Offline Offline

What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Ex-romantic partner
Posts: 10


« Reply #5 on: October 17, 2016, 03:50:48 PM »

No.  I am asking from the position of protection and co-parenting.  My concern is my daughters wellness and security.

I remember she once told me that if she ever came back, that she would emotionally die.  I attributed this to the shame she felt for what she did.  Hence, I found it very odd and confusing for her to make the offer. 

Now, if we start "working" together (in our daughters best interest, which looks good to outsiders), "forget" about the past, and I let her back in, she bypasses having to face her shame.  I would have to take on all the blame, but in her mind, it is all my fault anyway.  Yes, I made a lot of mistakes. I had NO IDEA exactly what I was dealing with. But I think it would be far more detrimental to the mental health of my daughter to go down that road.

If she were an otherwise healthy person, one: we wouldn't be divorced, and two: I would take the offer at face value.  But as I have learned over the years, she never comes out and says what she wants.  I have to read her mind, an impossible task at best.  AND it is always about her, under the guise of helping another. 

For the moment, I appear to be split white.  I am probably overthinking this a bit.  It has been known to happen.  :-D


Logged
Mutt
Retired Staff
*
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Ex-romantic partner
Relationship status: Divorced Oct 2015
Posts: 10395



WWW
« Reply #6 on: October 17, 2016, 05:10:20 PM »

I was confused with your tread title. I think that you're asking is she being sincere? A pwBPD have emotional amnesia and recall us from the last interaction that they had with us. Gunderson on object constancy and emotional amnesia:

Excerpt
Something which is all good one day can be all bad the next, which is related to another symptom: borderlines have problems with object constancy in people -- they read each action of people in their lives as if there were no prior context; they don't have a sense of continuity and consistency about people and things in their lives. They have a hard time experiencing an absent loved one as a loving presence in their minds. They also have difficulty seeing all of the actions taken by a person over a period of time as part of an integrated whole, and tend instead to analyze individual actions in an attempt to divine their individual meanings. People are defined by how they lasted interacted with the borderline. In the same sense of constancy borderlines have "emotional amnesia", they are so completely in each mood, they have great difficulty conceptualizing, remembering what it's like to be in another mood.

Maybe that's what the confusion comes from.on your prior agreement but I'm.just speculating, maybe she honestly forgot? That said.

You know her better than anyone on the forums. I completely understand how dissapointing that can feel but we have to accept our exes for who they are. .y advice, give her the benefit of the doubt and try it to see how things go, if you don't like it or she's not being sincere you can always revert things back?
Logged

"Let go or be dragged" -Zen proverb
RedRock

*
Offline Offline

What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Ex-romantic partner
Posts: 10


« Reply #7 on: October 17, 2016, 06:07:51 PM »

I tried to label the thread h.o.o.v.e.r.i.n.g. But the word keeps getting changed to "charming."  Interesting theories on it all.  Unfortunately, it is like standing outside the dragons cave, not knowing what is in there.  The only way to find out is to go in, but the danger in doing so is paramount.  In the end, all I want to do is keep my daughter safe.

Thanks for the advice, everyone.  It is good to know that I am not alone in all of this. 
Logged
RedRock

*
Offline Offline

What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Ex-romantic partner
Posts: 10


« Reply #8 on: October 21, 2016, 12:57:14 PM »

Update:  

I agreed to meet with her, in a public place. We had dinner with the daughter together.  Honestly, the 3 year old didn't care about it.  She had dad, which was really all she cared about.  We goofed around, played, and had our normal evening fun times.  I wasn't about to break the routine with her because someone else was there.

The exBPDw was quiet at first, and honestly, so was I.  However, it didn't take long before she started asking questions to strike up a conversation.  I answered her, trying to balance being vague with giving her enough to not feel like she was being dismissed out of hand.  I did my best to be pleasant, hiding my micro expressions as best I could, and tried to maintain positive body language.  She asked about my mom, about my dog, about my job, about my brother, etc.  The only family member I asked about was her mom.    

She told me about her job, how she was mentally exhausted at the end of the day, and how in the morning she just didn't want to leave her bed.  She didn't say whether or not she liked the job, just that she was learning some new stuff and that it would hopefully make her valuable.

After about an hour of mundane small talk, she started dropping simple phrases, such as "when WE found out WE were pregnant with <insert daughters name>" and "what happened to US when... ."  When she could find a way to use the words "we" and "us," she made sure to do so.  She seemed to be trying to reminisce about the good times we had together.  My replies were, "Yeah, I remember that." and "That was an interesting time."

She dropped weird things throughout the conversation.  I.e. - We had this cat together, who I gave a very specific nickname to.  Her name is "Jewel," but I changed it to "Julie."  "Jewel" just seemed like such a hard name for such a loving bundle of fluff.  It was something simple and mundane.  The ex never called her by "Julie," always "Jewel."  In our conversation, she specifically called the cat "Julie." I caught it, but did not remark on it.  She became excited talking about the cat, showing me pictures of how big she has gotten.   Yep, I liked that cat.  But she went with the ex in the divorce, and honestly, I don't think about her very often, if at all.

The long and short:  I think this was nothing more than a fishing trip on her part.  To what end, I have no idea.  But considering that I have been through a relationship recycle with her once, I am leaning more towards that it is exactly what she is up to.
Logged
DreamGirl
Retired Staff
*
Offline Offline

What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Romantic partner’s ex
Posts: 4015


Do. Or do not. There is no try.


« Reply #9 on: October 21, 2016, 02:34:52 PM »

I think it's OK to be friendly with your child's other parent. For me, I try to live my life by certain values and not let others affect those values. Showing grace to the other person who helped you create a child is a pretty valuable lesson to teach our kiddos.

A lot of divorced couples struggle when the marriage ends to develop a new life that doesn't include the other person. My exH used to fix things around the house for me after the divorce. I don't know much about much when it comes to that kind of stuff and I was still his boys' mama and it was their home too. When he got a new girlfriend, she was really bothered by that. She thought I should be responsible for fixing my own stuff. That's OK too. She was probably right. Smiling (click to insert in post)

You must remember that if she is trying to reconcile the relationship and feels rejected, that she may use the same child to [insert other behavior] when dealing with the rejection. Boundaries in that are important - and it's good to have boundaries post divorce anyways --- that way everyone is clear on the relationship. My husband and his ex-wife are friendly and she's tried several times to reconcile.  

We have all kinds of tools when it comes to communication in dealing with that.

Welcome to our family.  

DG
Logged

  "What I want is what I've not got, and what I need is all around me." ~Dave Matthews

RedRock

*
Offline Offline

What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Ex-romantic partner
Posts: 10


« Reply #10 on: October 21, 2016, 03:50:50 PM »

It isn't that I want to be involved in a conflict.  Quite the contrary.  I really have no desire to be in one.  I have spent the last two and a half years looking for ways to reduce any possible conflict.  But as far as being "friends,"  there is no way I can go down that road again.  I have a soft heart inside this hard candy shell.  She knows that.

This shift towards a more amicable relationship started about 4 months ago, when I called her out for attempting to contact my family.  My uncle was going through a divorce of his own (PTSD related issues) and she tried to get in touch with him.  She said that she was there for him if he needed someone to talk to, but it wasn't long into the conversation before he found out she was trying to dig up information on me.  He severed all communication with her and told her not to contact him again.

Before this, she had been informed, through both an attorney and law enforcement, to leave my family alone.  When she got caught, she tried to minimize the infraction by telling me that she was "sorry I felt that way."  She had violated a boundary, and I held firm.  Two weeks later, she was called out on her stalking behavior.  I had photos and video of her then boyfriend following me around town, then him showing up at our child exchange, on the same night.  She called me a bully, but again, I held firm with the boundary.

It is so weird dealing with her.  It is like I have to be a jerk in order to make any headway.  There is no such thing as cooperation, or mutually beneficial arrangements.  If you have ever had to deal with a 13 year old girl, well, that is exactly what I am dealing with: a 13 year old girl trapped in an adult body.  I used to joke that I was the "duct tape" holding my family together.   

She is the only "ex" I have any issues with.  Any other relationship I have had over the years, that ended, was at least done with some closure and respect.  In fact, I am still friends with most of them.  We all were at different points in our lives and wanted different things.  That is not to say there were not hurt feelings, but we both moved on civilly. 

I have moved on from the relationship.  I am involved with a new woman, one who is mature, reasonable, rational, has a long-term plan for her life, is consistent, and comfortable to be around.  There is the daily chaos of life that we deal with, but together, we are each others peace.  There is just comfort.  Some people have called us "boring," but that is okay after having lived with constant drama for so many years. 

I appreciate what you wrote DreamGirl.  It has given me some more food for thought. 
Logged
Turkish
BOARD ADMINISTRATOR
**
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Other
Relationship status: "Divorced"/abandoned by SO in Feb 2013; Mother with BPD, PTSD, Depression and Anxiety: RIP in 2021.
Posts: 12105


Dad to my wolf pack


« Reply #11 on: October 21, 2016, 05:09:12 PM »

My ex invited me to go to Disneyland with her and the kids this weekend. All expenses paid (plane ticket, hotel, and park ticket). I wasn't clear if her H was going,  but her sister,  kid,  and kid's dad are.   You're not alone  Smiling (click to insert in post)
Logged

    “For the strength of the Pack is the Wolf, and the strength of the Wolf is the Pack.” ― Rudyard Kipling
RedRock

*
Offline Offline

What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Ex-romantic partner
Posts: 10


« Reply #12 on: October 21, 2016, 08:24:29 PM »

I am pretty sure I would politely decline that one.  ESPECIALLY if the H isn't going with.  Oh, it may look innocent enough. Until you get home and the twisted and distorted tales start.
Logged
Aboutme2011
***
Offline Offline

Gender: Female
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Romantic partner
Relationship status: Married
Posts: 150



« Reply #13 on: November 08, 2016, 12:59:29 PM »

All people are different but I recently tried to be friendly with my estranged husband and now he is talking about "when we get back together" and what he wants to do differently.  I feel like I am being charmed! 

It does sound like your wife was on a fishing trip.  I hope nothing negative comes of it.  But that is kind of how my husband started - trying to get a tiny foot in the door at a time.

Logged
RedRock

*
Offline Offline

What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Ex-romantic partner
Posts: 10


« Reply #14 on: November 08, 2016, 08:11:41 PM »

All people are different but I recently tried to be friendly with my estranged husband and now he is talking about "when we get back together" and what he wants to do differently.  I feel like I am being charmed! 

It does sound like your wife was on a fishing trip.  I hope nothing negative comes of it.  But that is kind of how my husband started - trying to get a tiny foot in the door at a time.



It most definitely was a fishing trip.  She called me by the nickname she gave me years ago, something she had not done since before the divorce.  She reminisced about some funny incidents, recalling inside jokes we shared, and even talked about movies she wanted to go see. 

Anybody else have some insight?

Logged
Turkish
BOARD ADMINISTRATOR
**
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Other
Relationship status: "Divorced"/abandoned by SO in Feb 2013; Mother with BPD, PTSD, Depression and Anxiety: RIP in 2021.
Posts: 12105


Dad to my wolf pack


« Reply #15 on: November 08, 2016, 08:40:23 PM »

Maybe she's just painted you white again.  You've experienced the idealization stage before.  If so,  use it to your advantage for you and in parenting.  I do. 
Logged

    “For the strength of the Pack is the Wolf, and the strength of the Wolf is the Pack.” ― Rudyard Kipling
Can You Help Us Stay on the Air in 2024?

Pages: 1   Go Up
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Our 2023 Financial Sponsors
We are all appreciative of the members who provide the funding to keep BPDFamily on the air.
12years
alterK
AskingWhy
At Bay
Cat Familiar
CoherentMoose
drained1996
EZEarache
Flora and Fauna
ForeverDad
Gemsforeyes
Goldcrest
Harri
healthfreedom4s
hope2727
khibomsis
Lemon Squeezy
Memorial Donation (4)
Methos
Methuen
Mommydoc
Mutt
P.F.Change
Penumbra66
Red22
Rev
SamwizeGamgee
Skip
Swimmy55
Tartan Pants
Turkish
whirlpoollife



Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.21 | SMF © 2006-2020, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!