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How to communicate after a contentious divorce... Following a contentious divorce and custody battle, there are often high emotion and tensions between the parents. Research shows that constant and chronic conflict between the parents negatively impacts the children. The children sense their parents anxiety in their voice, their body language and their parents behavior. Here are some suggestions from Dean Stacer on how to avoid conflict.
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Author Topic: Ss lies horribly to BPDm  (Read 376 times)
catclaw
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« on: December 09, 2016, 02:50:06 AM »

So, again... :S

A few months back, DH overhead a conversation between SS and his mother on the phone where he basically told her we mistreat, neglect and anuse him. He said he was yelled at all day, from the moment he wakes up for stupid reasons like  forgetting to put his laundry im the basket. We wpuld punish him for minor details. He said he got punished for accidently crashing his bike into a bush (that was the first time DH even heard about the bush accident) and had to write a few pages as a punishment, which is not true. We used to have this little book for 2nd and 3rd graders with some easy writing tasks which he had to do one page of when, again, he couldn't do his homework because he left the books at school (this was convenient for him for a time, but it eventually stopped when we gave him an alternative tasks, because we wouldn't just let him do nothing at all - also whom the hell am i justifying this to rn?). He talked about how we called him "stupid" and how we told him he will never achieve anything in life. Again, this is 100% not true! When DH confronted Ss with this, he said "yeah, these are stories i invent" and when asked if he really feels this way he said "no? Not at all". He told us that sometimes he's just in a bad mood and then he tells his mom these stories. He also does this at her house regularly. Pf course, BPDm believes 100% of it, but never confronted dh directly. Once at a meeting with cps she told the horror stories he tells her. She was unconvincable that this is not true.

We told ss that all of these lies do harm. And eventually the truth will come out and that he better worked on finding a way to confess that he lied. We offered help, but he sticks to his story that he just invents this when he's in a bad mood. Turns out, this is the only way to get her attention.

Yesterday, ss talked to his mom while i was putting away his laundry. He told her that he doesn't want the doll's house for christmas anymore (he told my mom that his mother got him a doll's house for Christmas and that he doesn't want it at all, he wants a quadrocopter and my mom said that she used to have a doll's house when she was younger than him) because daddy said this is for kindergardeners. DH didn't even hear about the doll's house story. When i went out of his room i heard him whisper "mommy, i want that doll's house, but please don't tell daddy or he will get upset". And i was just standing in the stairway and could not believe what just happened. So i told dh and he had no idea what ss was talking about.

I find this hard to deal with. It upsets me and makes me angry. When ss is confronted, he just says his usual "oh... .you're right" which we know doesn't change a thing. Qhen asked about the reasons for his bad mood, he, again, doesn't know.

I see that he's in a ___ty position, but what he's doing is only making it so much worse and he doesn't change it. If we were to tell his mother, we would be the bad guys again and she would make it all secretive again.

I don't know what to do.
 
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catclaw
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« Reply #1 on: December 09, 2016, 05:25:40 AM »

I wanted to add some hypothetic thoughts as to why he does this. I know this may seem to lead nowhere, but I'm used to doing this from work to find a red line and planning next steps...

1) ss is severely co-dependent. He needs to paint us black in order to please his mom.
2) apart from pleasing his mom, painting us black is the only way for him to get her attention.
3) he lies to keep up his self-esteem. If we're to blame, it can't be him.
4) he's regressing to old patterns in order ro keep his relationship with his mother despite having a sibling on the way. Common enemies make a good foundation for a relationship.
5) he is developing BPD himself. This way of splitting and painting black is one way it shows.
6) he wants to protect his mother's self esteem and, as we are the biggest threat to her being a perfect mother, he invents stories to protect her from yet another nervous breakdown.



Ss came home from school because he threw up. Only once. Last time he was in that kind of inner conflict, the same thing happened the day after their phone call. Is has been 4 weeks since. He's not infectious or anything, he ony vomits once and then goes back to normal. I used to do this as a kid when i was stressed out, too. I feel this is another hint for how torn he is... .
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soundofmusicgirl
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« Reply #2 on: December 09, 2016, 06:15:25 AM »

catclaw ... i forgot... is your SS seing a therapist?

To me this really sounds like something for a therapist.

I hate the lying. I really never know how to react to it. Wether to point out that I am aware that SS is lying to me / us or wether to just ignore... or... .
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catclaw
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« Reply #3 on: December 09, 2016, 07:08:32 AM »

To get him into therapy is our main goal in court. His mother denies it - she sees the problem in us and not him. She says that he is troubled because of our abuse.

He does see a therapist, but the therapist is "on the kid's side" and does not work with either parent. The therapist demanded a form to be signed to have ss get more support from a therapist she networks and cooperates with - but BPDm denies to sign that form and only allows ss to go to said therapist (after she's been there a few times on her own, spreading whatever rumours). This appointments are 1 hour every 3 months.
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catclaw
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« Reply #4 on: December 11, 2016, 02:15:41 PM »

So, the little one and i had a really good talk this evening... .i don't know how long his insight wull last or if he even felt like he had gotten some insight, but it was the best talk we had in months.

He came back from his weekend with BPDm and was sitting on the dining table and all of a sudden started to cry. I went over and asked him what the matter was and he just said "the stories i tell mom... ." and i just held him and waited until he was able to go on... .then i asked him if he's stressed out and he said something like how he can't stand this anymore and that all these lies are too much for him.

Turns out, he is happy here and wants to stay here but he made it very clear that he can't tell his mother that we treat him well because then she would feel like she's "not a good mom" (his wording). He said that if he told his mom the truth (that he lied and that he wants to stay with us), she would be heartbroken.
I asked if there was anything we could do to help him or make it easier but he can't think of a way. He doesn't want us to get involved with BPDm about this, but i told him that if his well-bei g and health is put i  farther jeopardy, this will be the only way. It seems he understood where i was coming from and i got an impression on why he does this... .

Regarding that doll thing, he said that he wanted one for christmas because his mom doesn't have much money and suggested it would be nice if she could re-use it for his sister who will be born this month. He's afraid to tell her he doesn't want it because it could mean that he doesn't love his sister.

I validated him and told him over and over again that it is not his purpose to make adults happy. That adults need to take care of their wellbeing themselves.

He was able to concentrate during all of the convo and when he didn't understand me, he would ask me to explain my last sentence which is something we're not used to.

I'm all heart-broken for that little guy and don't know how to help him.
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soundofmusicgirl
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« Reply #5 on: December 12, 2016, 05:33:02 AM »

It is an aweful position for a child to be in.
To me it feels like "walking on eggshells" is getting passed down to the next generation.
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livednlearned
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« Reply #6 on: December 12, 2016, 09:53:37 AM »

How heartbreaking

And, he trusts you.  Doing the right thing (click to insert in post)

D19 does the same thing. I swear, that whole family thinks sound can't carry if the door is shut. I have heard D19 say awful things about her dad to uBPD mom during their nightly calls, and then she'll come skipping downstairs and hug him all over the house like he's the best dad in the world.

As a step parent, you can be SS's special confidante, and build trust with him. That may be more important than acting on any one thing, at least now. He may be able to tell that his therapist cannot be trusted. It took my son years to trust his current therapist. The first one, he played like a champ, and his dad grilled him about every session.

I think kids with BPD parents either lie or they learn to compartmentalize, never talking about either parent in the presence of the other. S15 eventually learned to do this. He told me he figured out ways to change the topic quickly, and never, ever brought up a topic about me. He wouldn't turn back and wave when he went into the house, and he would walk to the car with his head down when I picked him up. Then we would drive around the corner and he would bounce back to his usual talkative self.

 

It's a hard existence for these kids.

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Breathe.
catclaw
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« Reply #7 on: December 12, 2016, 02:20:34 PM »

It's something quite unusual that he talks to me that openly. When I first met DH, i was the worst for BPDm. She painted me incredibly black, even making false allegations about me at CPS (I'm a psychopath, schizophrenic and have a history of being violent towards children? Oh well... ). When she sent ss to live with us despite having that image of me, i was still just as bad as DH. It would always be "don't tell dad AND catclaw!"

But it seems that I'm out of that circle - it's now "don't tell dad and catclaw's mother!". My mom was ss' #1 confidante, but it looks like BPDm took notice.

I don't know if i need to worry about her stopping to paint me black, but I'm glad that ss found a new trust in me.

Still, this situation is so unsatisfying because i feel like we're stuck. That court thing really needs to start soon :/
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ambivalentmom
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« Reply #8 on: December 19, 2016, 02:55:29 PM »

I'm sorry that your SS is stuck in this position.  This would be difficult for adults to deal with.


I would like to ask what others on this website think of the following suggestion because I'm not sure how well received it will be. 

I'm guessing your SS is around 9-10 years old now, maybe express to him how you feel (sad that this is happening to him and frustrated that you can't find a solution).  Empathize that it's hard for him because he doesn't want to lie, but doesn't want his mom to think she isn't a good mom (It is a very muddled situation that he shouldn't be in, but anyone talking to mom about it won't fix it, so for now, understand his side of it).  Maybe you can suggest instead of lying about dad, SS tell mom some things he likes and misses that only she did or does (certain recipe, game, inside joke, etc.) that they can do over the phone or when he visits her.  Not a child's responsibility to validate an adult, but he already is by lying, so he might feel better knowing he has this option instead. 

Anyone else's thoughts on this suggestion?



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catclaw
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« Reply #9 on: December 20, 2016, 11:04:09 AM »



I'm guessing your SS is around 9-10 years old now, maybe express to him how you feel (sad that this is happening to him and frustrated that you can't find a solution).  Empathize that it's hard for him because he doesn't want to lie, but doesn't want his mom to think she isn't a good mom (It is a very muddled situation that he shouldn't be in, but anyone talking to mom about it won't fix it, so for now, understand his side of it).  Maybe you can suggest instead of lying about dad, SS tell mom some things he likes and misses that only she did or does (certain recipe, game, inside joke, etc.) that they can do over the phone or when he visits her.  Not a child's responsibility to validate an adult, but he already is by lying, so he might feel better knowing he has this option instead. 

Anyone else's thoughts on this suggestion?





Thanks for your answer, ambivalentmom!
You're raising a good point. When we ask ss about what it is that he misses at mom's, he never has an answer. Instead, he starts comparing our way of living to hers and gets lost in trivial details. We get answers like "i like the decoration in this house better... .but mom has a bigger fridge... .which i actually don't really use... .but i know mom likes it" or "mom wants to adopt a puppy... but we have 2 cats that are really nice" and we never get to a point where we can really say "now that could be something you tell your mom you love about her". Easy imaginations like "you don't have to answer, just answer it for yourself" never really happen because ss forgets about this the minute he is asked to think about an answer/ solution/ whatever, no matter the topic. So, yeah, giving him an alternative is something i would definitely do, if 1) he would make use of it and 2) would know what to say. As for now, i think he's too deep inside his messed up reality construct and can't find a way to tear it down without causing too much damage.
I actually really like cascadic questions like "what do you think is it that mom/dad/i am/is feeling about you telling these stories?" In an interested tone to get information on how he sees his own situation. That way, i get to see a lot more from his point of view as to what does he expect will happen vs  what is actually happening? This may not actually help find a solution, but i can empathise with ss a lot easier, understanding his twisted logic or at least getting a glimpse of his understanding of the system. When he says "i don't know" I'll say "yeah, you can't know that because you're not a mind-reader and nobody except mom/dad/me could answer this correctly, but I'm interested in what YOU THINK goes on in our minds". This is part of the systemic approach and i find this to be a helpful tool in conversations with ss.
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ambivalentmom
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« Reply #10 on: December 20, 2016, 03:24:47 PM »

I like the questions to promote empathy and get SS talking (I think that's why he trusts you so much  Doing the right thing (click to insert in post) ).  I know my D14's therapist says children usually don't like to share about the other parents home, which would also explain why SS went back on the fridge remark and why he makes up stuff for mom (a way to deflect from the truth).  I would definitely keep going the way you are and continue supporting him.  He is very smart to be able to read his mom, smart because he communicates with you, considerate of others because he invents stories to validate her, and strong because he is in a difficult situation and is handling it well.  The lying is not a good idea, but it seems like he has a firm grasp on that and just needs to be reminded of all the things he does that shows you he is a good person.


P.S.  I would see if you can find a professional that can support/record this situation because SS is open about it.  It does sound like PA (SS has to say bad things about dad's house to get mom's approval) and I would be worried for SS in the long run/could believe his own lies as truths.
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