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Before you can make things better, you have to stop making them worse... Have you considered that being critical, judgmental, or invalidating toward the other parent, no matter what she or he just did will only make matters worse? Someone has to be do something. This means finding the motivation to stop making things worse, learning how to interrupt your own negative responses, body language, facial expressions, voice tone, and learning how to inhibit your urges to do things that you later realize are contributing to the tensions.
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BC123

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What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Romantic partner
Posts: 7


« on: January 01, 2017, 09:50:00 AM »

In a relationship going on 3 years. Didn't find out til recently that he is narcissistic and/or borderline. There are issues with porn addiction and unhealthy conversations/interactions with other women.  There are also those inevitable arguments that go off into this 'crazy' space and get way out of control with seemingly little to no initiating situation.
He 'needs' me to be more sensitive and also be this aloof chill person for him and turns anything he does around on me; that I triggered the unpleasant feelings.
I feel for him but know it is not healthy for me. It has been an entire year of working with his true nature.
I can't seem to get out of this loop of knowing it is unhealthy but feeling bad for him.

Any advice?
-desperate
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formflier
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« Reply #1 on: January 01, 2017, 10:01:19 AM »


Welcome

I'm glad you found us.   Doing the right thing (click to insert in post)  



I feel for him but know it is not healthy for me. It has been an entire year of working with his true nature.
I can't seem to get out of this loop of knowing it is unhealthy but feeling bad for him.

Any advice?
-desperate

Have you tried to get out of the loop?  Can you give a recent example?

How did you get back in the loop?  Again... .1 recent example would be helpful.

I saw a couple very hopeful things in your post.

You acknowledge and express your feelings about him.  Very... .very good. 

You can clearly see a loop and realize that you are stuck.

Again... good that you see these things.  Many don't.

You have found a safe place to learn about these dynamics that are playing out in your life.

We can help guide you.

FF
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BC123

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What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Romantic partner
Posts: 7


« Reply #2 on: January 01, 2017, 10:40:49 AM »

A recent example just happened last night, of course.
He had discomfort in the situation we were walking into (dinner at (my) friend's house). I asked him the day before if he was interested before I agreed to go, knowing anything similar to this could go smoothly or not at all. He agreed but when we arrived outside the house last night,  he  addressed his discomfort about what we were walking into, but couldn't really explain what exactly was uncomfortable. He just kept quizzing me: "Tell me how you would feel if you were in my shoes." I tried, but I couldn't find that final piece that he seemed to be looking for me to say. We then spent the next 40inutes trying to work it out. He kept saying no one understands me. No one ever has! I tried to stay calm and level, inquiring more so that I could understand his reason for the discomfort and we could resolve it. I suggested we change the plan for the night and I was totally happy to do that, but I don't knoe that he wanted a resolution. He would just get more and more angry and upset.
Eventually I told him "I am going to go inside and have a fun dinner with these cool people and I would love if he came in with me. At this point he was in a rage and I knew (I think) there was nothing I could say or do to improve the situation. He stormed off then came in after dinner. It was social and fun. We left and he freaked out. I told him it would probably be best if I went home to my place and we got some space. I left. He was raging. He texted and said he was sad and would like me to come back and stay with him. I did. It was uncomfortable and we went right to sleep. This morning he left before I got up. He texted from work to tell me how sad and depressed he is "but he would still like to see me later".
There were more extreme examples in the past where I actually ended the relationship (in front of a couples therapist), but I couldn't stay separate after his revelations and seemingly insightful realizations about how to work it out, along with his devotions of love.
Thank you for any insight
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formflier
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« Reply #3 on: January 01, 2017, 12:57:00 PM »

OK... .got it.

I want you to stay "big picture" or "strategy level" with me for a bit.

He "wanted" you to tell him something about how to feel.  In other words... .he "wanted" you to solve a problem for him.  

That in an of itself is not necessarily an issue, except that you have history... .you have a cycle... .and you have seen this type of thing before.

Stay big picture with me.  I suggest that you try to learn skills here to express empathy to him and to make sure you "hear" him.  Then in a friendly way express confidence in his abilities to solve his own stuff... .and go on about your life.

Stay big picture:  You are under no obligation to solve another adults issues.  Since you see the dynamic, I'm hoping you can "see" that having someone else solve his issues is actually hurting, vice helping him.

Let's get "small picture".  

You get to a place and he doesn't want to go in or wants to talk about his feelings.

stay friendly... ."Oh my... .I'm not very introspective at the moment.  Let me give this some thought.  Perhaps we can have coffee after our dinner party and discuss this further."

Then go into the party.  

Back to big picture:  Much less communication on your part, much more consistency of action and leave the door open to "next time".

So... .he rages.  I'm going to go home.  He says he is sad, please come over.  You can acknowledge the emotion, wish him a good night sleep and let him know you are looking forward to next time.

Let him be an adult and sort himself out. 

How does all of this strike you?

FF
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BC123

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Who in your life has "personality" issues: Romantic partner
Posts: 7


« Reply #4 on: January 03, 2017, 02:59:08 PM »

OK... .got it.

I want you to stay "big picture" or "strategy level" with me for a bit.

He "wanted" you to tell him something about how to feel.  In other words... .he "wanted" you to solve a problem for him.  

That in an of itself is not necessarily an issue, except that you have history... .you have a cycle... .and you have seen this type of thing before.

Stay big picture with me.  I suggest that you try to learn skills here to express empathy to him and to make sure you "hear" him.  Then in a friendly way express confidence in his abilities to solve his own stuff... .and go on about your life.


I believe I was trying to do this, but when I felt for him and says I understood him, it seemed I could not understand enough for him. I am an honest person by default and I truly meant I felt for him, but when he wanted me to use whatever words were in his head to show him I truly understood where/why/how/etc he has coming from, I find it impossible because 1. I never know exactly what words he needs to hear, and 2. I can't use words that do not feel true/honest to me. This comes up a lot with us.


Stay big picture:  You are under no obligation to solve another adults issues.  Since you see the dynamic, I'm hoping you can "see" that having someone else solve his issues is actually hurting, vice helping him.

Let's get "small picture".  

You get to a place and he doesn't want to go in or wants to talk about his feelings.

stay friendly... ."Oh my... .I'm not very introspective at the moment.  Let me give this some thought.  Perhaps we can have coffee after our dinner party and discuss this further."

Then go into the party.  

Back to big picture:  Much less communication on your part, much more consistency of action and leave the door open to "next time".

So... .he rages.  I'm going to go home.  He says he is sad, please come over.  You can acknowledge the emotion, wish him a good night sleep and let him know you are looking forward to next time.

Let him be an adult and sort himself out. 

How does all of this strike you?

FF

This nighttime/sadness situation is commmon, though not the only time I get sucked into the loop.
A big reason for me going back to his house is fear. Since finding out about his infidelities, it has come to his/my  attention that he is using these interactions with other women as coping or self-soothing mechanisms (which, he has apparently been doing for years before we met, but to a much higher, more damaging degree in previous relationships). When he is sad or stressed or lonely (when are BPDs not), he reaches out to these women as a distraction and to soothe  his uncomfortable thoughts. (And of course hides, deletes, lies, and keeps this in secrecy)This does not work for me. I have done much self-searching and am not willing to sacrifice trust and openness in my partner.
This is where the fear/loop comes in. It is late at night, he is feeling overwhelming bad feelings. If I don't take him up on his invite to spend the night, I will be trapped in the uneasy feeling of "what happened" and "how far might it have gone" and "will I ever find out" and "what if/who/and is he safe to be physical with again?"
All over a (seemingly) simple little argument.

Another fold into this maddening relationship.
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formflier
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« Reply #5 on: January 03, 2017, 03:19:06 PM »


Listen... .it appears he is communicating in a way designed so you don't understand.

Switch from understanding him... .to "hearing" him.  Reflect back his words.  If he denies it or says you have it wrong.  Invite him to write a letter with the proper words.

Basically... .give him one shot to "tell you" and you to reflect back.  Then switch formats.

He likely doesn't understand himself, so he wants YOU to twist into a weird shape... .to make him feel better.

Do you think this could work?  Note... .very different than him being happy with it.

Next... you have clearly stated that his r/s dalliances with other women don't work.  What are you prepared to do to uphold that boundary?

FF
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ynwa
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Who in your life has "personality" issues: Ex-romantic partner
Posts: 293


« Reply #6 on: January 04, 2017, 12:43:53 PM »

Excerpt
when he wanted me to use whatever words were in his head to show him I truly understood where/why/how/etc he has coming from, I find it impossible because 1. I never know exactly what words he needs to hear, and 2. I can't use words that do not feel true/honest to me. This comes up a lot with us.

Hey BC,  I can relate to your story, and can see you trying to find a way through it. The quote above is very much how I have felt for a long time.

I agree with your statement "it is unhealthy for me". Do you feel like your honesty and needs being put as a request for your partner to HELP you with rather than solve, are simply reflected back as "your problem, not theirs?"
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BC123

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What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Romantic partner
Posts: 7


« Reply #7 on: January 05, 2017, 11:09:15 PM »


Next... you have clearly stated that his r/s dalliances with other women don't work.  What are you prepared to do to uphold that boundary?

FF

FF - I am willing to do anything that will rsesult in a healthier life for me. I feel I should get out but cannot follow through because he knows how to draw me back.
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BC123

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What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Romantic partner
Posts: 7


« Reply #8 on: January 05, 2017, 11:15:17 PM »

Hey BC,  I can relate to your story, and can see you trying to find a way through it. The quote above is very much how I have felt for a long time.

I agree with your statement "it is unhealthy for me". Do you feel like your honesty and needs being put as a request for your partner to HELP you with rather than solve, are simply reflected back as "your problem, not theirs?"

ynwa-
Whether I want to talk about my anxieties from his infidelities or I just need space so I can deal with the anxiety on my own, I am scoffed at as if I am a nuisance and I won't let it go and he says 'it's always about you and your feelings' ... .even if I stood next to him for 2 of his anxiety attacks in the last two weeks while he tried to blame  them on me. As if I trigger every wrong choice he makes. "If I can just let it go, it wouldn't be a problem"

Constantly feeling at the end of my rope. I am either stronger than I thought or a pushover.
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formflier
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« Reply #9 on: January 06, 2017, 08:39:58 AM »

FF - I am willing to do anything that will rsesult in a healthier life for me. I feel I should get out but cannot follow through because he knows how to draw me back.

Can you tell me more about the part that I bolded?

Who is responsible for your r/s decisions?

FF
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BC123

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Who in your life has "personality" issues: Romantic partner
Posts: 7


« Reply #10 on: January 06, 2017, 12:48:10 PM »

FF-
It is like he senses when I am feeling more whole and recognizing the destructiveness of the relationship and he turns into the charming self he can be.  He goes from being super reactive and finger pointing and shutting-down into a calm presence that can warm my heart. He is very convincing and as many times as we go through this, it still happens before I realize it.  I hold onto his hopes for us and his 'bright light at the end of the tunnel'; that we can fix all this and have an amazing relationship, "we just need to learn to communicate".  I have found that this is nearly impossible with him for so many reasons.   I still, however, hold onto the prospect and am afraid that I am giving up on something that could be great.
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formflier
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« Reply #11 on: January 06, 2017, 01:49:45 PM »

So... .when he is "charming you"... .and promising things... .what relationship changes have been agreed on.  Has he agree to therapy?  Have you asked?

Individual T and MC?

Big picture... .you see the pattern... .you understand how you process the events and your thinking.

If you go through another cycle of this, do you expect the outcome to be different?

Note... thank you for a very open and insightful look at your part in your relationship.   Doing the right thing (click to insert in post)

FF
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lovenature
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« Reply #12 on: January 10, 2017, 02:52:26 PM »

Hey BC

Excerpt
I can't seem to get out of this loop of knowing it is unhealthy but feeling bad for him.

Sounds like compassion and empathy for him, common traits of a caretaker (I know them all to well). I found the challenge for me has been to give myself compassion.
Reading and learning about BPD has really helped me, and when I was ready to shift the focus to why I stayed in an unhealthy relationship I found the answers very painful, but helpful to find a better way of life. 2 books I found helpful were "Codependent no more" and "Overcoming perfectionism".
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ynwa
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« Reply #13 on: January 10, 2017, 08:43:33 PM »

I am either stronger than I thought or a pushover.
You are probably both.  You are experiencing the push and pull of someone who makes you feel truly unbalanced.  I know it's an unhappy feeling, but people like formflier and the reading resources will help immensely.

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BC123

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What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Romantic partner
Posts: 7


« Reply #14 on: January 22, 2017, 12:21:32 PM »

ynwa - Thank you.  It has been helping a great deal.  What an eye opening experience to see your relationship described over and over in different variations by total strangers.  Makes you realize this is not just your complex loves getting in the way.  It is real, and it is deep, and it is gnarly.
I am currently disengaging fro the relationship.  I have 6-7 pages from this website saved to my phone that i reference many many times throughout the day. It has kept me focused on the big picture and helped me to feel stronger (strength in numbers).

Lovenature - Thank you. I will definitely pick those up.  It is the hardest (for me) to figure out where his issues end and mine begin.  I hope those will help.  I am currently relying heavily on my therapist and my sister for guidance on the day-to-day communications (or lack thereof for the most part).  It is like I cannot see through the haze of what I have been doing in the relationship to know what the healthy action to take is.  They seem to see that 'unhealthy' line clearly, so that has been helping a lot too.

Formflier - Thank you for all of the assistance.  I didn't respond to the last message because I knew I was beginning the disengaging process and responding to those questions would wrap me back up in that place where I have very little control. I am feeling, most of the time, like this is a good choice, but like I said to Lovenature, I often need direction from those around me who care.
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lovenature
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« Reply #15 on: January 23, 2017, 09:38:46 PM »

Excerpt
It is like I cannot see through the haze of what I have been doing in the relationship to know what the healthy action to take is.  They seem to see that 'unhealthy' line clearly, so that has been helping a lot too.

NC is preached by so many because it works in reality; the further out you get, the more the FOG (haze) clears and the better able you will be to decide what is best for YOU. Always look at the overall of things in life (positive vs. negative), especially with relationships.
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