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Krato

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« on: January 04, 2017, 07:27:46 AM »

In this first post I will tell my story so far. In future postings I'll tell more about my uBPDw, my life in the present and my feelings and thoughts.

Where to begin... I am a male turning 40 next year. I'm in a 12 year relationship with uBPDw who is 8 years younger than me. 2 children, amazing little boys aged 1 and 2. We live in northern Europe, so please bare with me as English is only my second language. My language may sometimes seem a bit funny.

I think all of you here can guess the beginning of the story. You meet amazing, beautiful person, everything seems too good to be true, I rescued her from a bad relationship and she rescued me. I never before expected I could get a girl of her caliber. Then year by year her dark side starts to become clearer and clearer. She stops taking responsibility in the housework and needs help in very trivial things. She has personal issues with every manager she has in every working place. She hates your friends and family and worships her own. Her parents were first very nice, but you also slowly start to see some strange behavior in them.

I think mainly due to my own lack of self-confidence I ended up engaging her (She told me she would knock my teeth out if I don't, it was a joke, but now I think whether there was some truth also in it) and then getting married (who wouldn't marry a beautiful girl like her). Now that I think of it, it was insane as we hadn't had sex for 6 months or so before the wedding. After that, the sexual life improved though which is just the opposite of what usually happens. I guess she felt better as she had gotten what she wanted. Secured me in the wedlock.

Next five years we tried to have a baby but she had a medical condition which prevented it. Obviously I could not leave her at this point as I was eager and hopeful to see how the infertility treatments would turn out. My focus was more in the child that in the relationship. And like you all know, living with a person who has BPD can be easy if both of you are working (you don't get on each others nerves all day) and there are very little responsibilities at home. Dishwasher does the dishes and there are no pets or children to take care of.

We finally got a healthy baby boy and a year later she became pregnant again. This time naturally without any treatments. At that time I started to notice that I became more and more responsible for the firstborn as she wasn't nursing him anymore. I became the one to wake up at nights to feed him and go out with him day time. But as she was expecting the second baby, I of course let her rest as much as needed. She was on pretty good moods during the first pregnancy but this second one was different. She for example practically threw my aunt out of the house as she had arrived to help me with childcare and cleaning up after a renovation. My family was helping me occasionally with kids while she was working. She saw that as "cheating" as she had to take care of the firstborn alone while I was at work.

Situation worsened a lot when the younger child was born. She was hospitalized after the birth and she was obviously very stressed for not being able to be with the baby. She unleashed her anger at me, my mother, the personnel at the hospital and so on. This was the first time I ever saw my mother cry in tears "I cannot do anything right" when my wife again was so cruel towards her. This was a real game changer for me and at that moment I started to read more about NPD and BPD. I obviously had noticed these traits earlier, especially in her father, but now I started to take it more seriously. This was also the moment I came out of the closet and started to talk about our her doings to my friends and family. Before, I had covered her tracks and taken blame for some of her episodes towards my family.

You could say my mother helped me get out of the FOG and I will always be thankful to her for that. I can never tell my wife this though. If divorce ever happens, I'm sure my mother will be the one she will blame. Also the fight which followed confirmed my thoughts of her BPD. She cried and blamed my mother for making her cry. She also was assured that my mother has depression. And that my mother should not take her personal problems at her. She was also convinced that she had done nothing wrong and it was my mother who had been mean to her for a long time.

Time passed, our younger child moved from breast feeding to bottle and guess who is now mainly responsible for feeding both kids and changing most of the nappies. In the spring of 2016 I was working only 3 days a week but even that was too much for her. She called me at work asking when do I come home and to bring food as there was nothing in the fridge (fridge is usually full, but she is very picky and prefers junk food).  When I came home I could never tell whether there is a rage episode waiting. If I spent too much time in grocery store or did overtime at work, it was sure there was an episode waiting. Sometimes I found her sleeping with the baby and firstborn was in the crib playing with ipad. Sometimes she had given him yesterdays junk food leftovers (french fries) for dinner. Of course most of the time things were ok, but I obviously remember these events better. All in all, I didn't see this arrangement very good for any of us.

So in april I decided to take leave from work and become a stay at home dad. 4 months went with both of us being at home but I felt again I took bigger responsibility in taking care of the kids and we had lots of fights. She preferred doing housework but also then it seemed she complained about it all the time. Banging cabinet doors and blaming me and the kids for making a mess. I had a second apartment which I rented and I had to spend some time there to renovate it. She was fine until boys woke up from the naps, then she called me saying "the boys woke up, when are you coming home?". At that time I had barely started painting etc. So I ended up selling the apartment too. There were other reasons for it also of course.

Last 5 months she has been working full time and I have been at home with kids. This has been the most peaceful time so far and as I am the stay-at-home person I have been happy to take full responsibility for waking up at nights and doing housework. In the evenings when she comes home I still obviously get lots of crap for not cleaning enough etc, same thing as when I was working and she was at home.
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Krato

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« Reply #1 on: January 04, 2017, 08:06:21 AM »

What makes this most complicated is that she very cleverly stays on "grey zone". She always has an argument waiting when I confront her about her behavior. In some weird way she can always justify why she doesn't have to take out the trash or feed the kids. At nights she never wakes up when either of the boys is crying, or she pretends she is sleeping. She also has moved to sleep in the livingroom so that she won't get woken up by the kids. There hasn't been intimacy in our relationship for ages. Sometimes she complains about me not kissing or hugging her enough but she doesn't seem to be very much bothered by it. Evenings after work her focus is in bingeing, watching TV and using her cell phone until she passes out on the couch. My job is to clean up her dishes, candy and candy wrappings so that kids won't eat those in the morning. I also have to turn off the TV and all the lights as she never does that.

Yes, classic queen-typed BPD, but also some traits from other types. Her helplessness and "victim"-attitude comes from "waif". From "hermit" she displays the pessimism and distrust towards other people. She is also sometimes very mean and lacks empathy which can be thought of a "witch" type of behavior. But mostly, she seems to see myself and other people as her servants. Her father is a "king" type of NPD and their relationship is really interesting. But I'll get into that in some other post.

So, she is not impossible by any means which makes this so difficult. She is faithful. Although being a hairdresser/barber I know she flirts a lot with male customers and gets her dose of narcissistic source from them (good as then I don't have to supply it, this is why she has been much more calm recently). She is quite open about this, which is why I trust she wouldn't cheat on me. She's a bad lier. She also has never been physically violent. Once she pushed our firstborn (when he was 1 year old) as he didn't eat the meal she had prepared, but that was very mild and nothing serious happened. We also have lots of peaceful times and her episodes are normally very short. After few minutes or hours she has forgotten everything she had said and done and expects me to have done the same. I don't recover that fast. As introvert personality, I build up those hurt feelings inside me and who knows what happens when my meter gets full.

Sometimes I almost wish she would go too far and do something which would give me a clear excuse to divorce her. Not very healthy to think that way...

Questions I am asking myself:

All women have mood swings, am I being too demanding?
Maybe she behaves this way just because I am a bad husband and don't give her what she needs?
Maybe it's me who is losing it as being locked at home 24-7 with 2 small kids?
If I divorce her and start a new relationship, would I have the same problems with the next partner as well?
I cannot divorce her as then she will make my life even more hell than it is now!
Who will take care of the children if she is incapable of doing that? Would she be able if she had to?
How do I feel if I end up spending rest of my life alone and she finds a new guy who is great with MY kids? And my kids see me as the "pathetic" dad who lives alone.
Can I live if I don't see my boys every day? They are my everything.
Could I somehow learn to be happy while living with her?
Could I learn to be happy even if I divorce her? Maybe this is again just one of my "I will be happy WHEN... ."
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ynwa
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« Reply #2 on: January 04, 2017, 10:30:10 AM »

Hello Krato,

Thank you for sharing. You have handled a tough situation with love and compassion.  You also seem to have a handle on yourself and what your feeling for yourself.  The people on this board can and well help you. 

YNWA
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Krato

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« Reply #3 on: January 08, 2017, 09:16:14 AM »

I want to share something. Few days ago I had a minor breakdown. It was yet another morning. In the evening I had put S1 and S2 to sleep, I woke up once or twice at night because they cried and woke up again early in the morning to give them breakfast and change diapers. I wasn't overly tired, but could have used more sleep. My uBPDW was peacefully sleeping on the couch as usual. Once again it felt so unfair and injust as married couples are supposed to take care of their children together or at least share responsibilities and take turns. Same suffocated anger started building up again inside me so I had to take a moment to breathe and calm myself, as I have done many times before.

I felt reached some kind of limit there and then. I could not take this anymore so it hit me to try something new to keep my head together. I decided to drop all my expectations on her. I'll just let her rot on the couch. I will act like I am a single parent taking care of S1 and S2. If she wants to change a diaper or do something with kids, fine. But if she just lays all day on the couch sleeping, watching TV, using cell phone, thats fine too. I won't interrupt her. I'll ask her help only in very urgent situations, when for example I am busy with S1 and S2 is doing something dangerous.

Guess what, this has helped me a lot. To just give in and give up on the situation. Me and S2 still get the same amount of blame, guilt and negativity from her as before but at least I can now stay calmer and I am not dependent on her participance in anything anymore. Lighter and liberated feeling.

I feel like I have discovered something that will buy me more time to keep my head together until I know what to do with this r/s. This hasn't changed my life much. Earlier I did most of the child care duties and now I still do. I just accept my fate and don't get mad about it anymore.

Do you want to know how she reacted? I think she barely noticed, but she was in excellent moods in the evening of the day when I started my experiment (well, she barely needed to leave the couch whole day). She was very talkative, almost seductive at times and gave me a hug. I was a bit distant as I cannot act lovingly towards her when I don't feel like it. I tried to respond to her friendly gestures though so that I won't trigger an episode.

I guess she was happy I had finally accepted my role as her servant and her role as the queen, at least for a day. Sad to say though, that also vengeance drives and motivates me in this experiment. Otherwise I cannot manage this sense of injustice and unfairness. There will come time when she will have to take the responsibility of the kids and then she'll be in trouble. Maybe it's a divorce, or business trip or something else when I'm not around. If she cannot grow into being a mother, she will be forced to grow into it. My time will come.
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purekalm
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« Reply #4 on: January 09, 2017, 08:04:10 AM »

Hello Krato,

  You are going through quite a bit right now. If you look over to your right there is some helpful links to getting a handle on your situation. I recommend a book called Boundaries by Dr. Henry Cloud and Dr. John Townsend and I've seen others recommend a book titled Stop Walking on Eggshells by Paul Mason. I do realize these may be difficult to get and not have her see, but will definitely help you in defining where you end and she begins.

Quote from: Krato
All women have mood swings, am I being too demanding?
Maybe she behaves this way just because I am a bad husband and don't give her what she needs?
Maybe it's me who is losing it as being locked at home 24-7 with 2 small kids?
If I divorce her and start a new relationship, would I have the same problems with the next partner as well?
I cannot divorce her as then she will make my life even more hell than it is now!
Who will take care of the children if she is incapable of doing that? Would she be able if she had to?
How do I feel if I end up spending rest of my life alone and she finds a new guy who is great with MY kids? And my kids see me as the "pathetic" dad who lives alone.
Can I live if I don't see my boys every day? They are my everything.
Could I somehow learn to be happy while living with her?
Could I learn to be happy even if I divorce her? Maybe this is again just one of my "I will be happy WHEN... ."

I'm sure you've answered all these before and hopefully realized that quite a few are blaming you for her disorder. You can't control her, you can only control yourself. She will do what she wants and because you've been through so much it's important that you focus on healing yourself so you can better assess what it is you want and need.

That's good that you decided to take control of what you could. Don't see it as giving in or giving up. You decided that whether she will be a parent or not, you will. If anything, you've gained a bit of independence from her. I think she did notice what you did, but she interpreted it her way.

How are you feeling now? Has anything else changed?

Please keep posting, people here do care and try to help each other.  Smiling (click to insert in post)

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Krato

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« Reply #5 on: January 13, 2017, 05:34:23 AM »

Hey purekalm, and thanks for your reply. Letting go of my expectations has helped a bit, one less thing to worry about. I understand my current feelings may also be partially due to exhaustion and stress from being alone at home with two toddlers 7 days a week. I don't have any hobbies outside the house nor could I go there without car anyway. My wife uses my car to go to work and very often comes home like 9 pm. On days off she has hairdressers etc appointments which for some reason may take up to 7 hours. On those rare days when she is at home and car is at my disposal, I should just take advantage and go out somewhere. Either with or without kids. Sad to say, the climax of my week is sometimes being able to go to grocery store alone for 1 hour. Most of the time my wife wants to join as I am not able to buy her the right food (second reason is that she dislikes being alone at home with kids).

I should wait and see how I will feel when I get back to work or studying. I don't want to demonize my wife for my own struggle as SAHD (although I know she did that while she was at home and I was working).

Last few days I have been thinking about ways to continue the relationship. There are so many advantages in it. It would be wiser financially of course. I think I would be financially ok after divorce but she might not be. Most of all I could then participate in my sons life every day and coach them how to deal with their mothers mood swings and temper therefore building much more stable future for them.

I would welcome advice from anyone who has continued in the r/s where love is currently non-existant. Does it even make any sense? I guess I am romantic by nature and I hate myself for being a husband who does not hug or kiss or support his wife in any way. I just feel so strongly that she does not deserve it due to treating me and our sons the way she does. It's so disgusting to force myself into acting like I love her when I don't currently feel like it.

I have extremely strict understanding of right and wrong. That is a bad characteristic to have in this situation. It's hard to forgive and forget.
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Krato

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« Reply #6 on: January 13, 2017, 05:54:53 AM »

You are going through quite a bit right now. If you look over to your right there is some helpful links to getting a handle on your situation. I recommend a book called Boundaries by Dr. Henry Cloud and Dr. John Townsend and I've seen others recommend a book titled Stop Walking on Eggshells by Paul Mason. I do realize these may be difficult to get and not have her see, but will definitely help you in defining where you end and she begins.

Oh yes, I have read Stop Walking on Eggshells. I got it as ebook version and I've been reading it while sitting next to her in living room Smiling (click to insert in post) She's not very interested in anything I do, so no problem there. I think during these 12 years of she has perhaps once asked me how my day was.

I recommend the ebook/digital version to everyone else too. SWOE is indeed the bible of this area of expertise. It has helped me in the healing process and will continue to do so also in the future.
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Notwendy
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« Reply #7 on: January 13, 2017, 06:12:59 AM »

I was in your shoes with being primary caretaker of the kids when they were very young. I was the one getting up at night, not going anywhere on my own. My H's argument when I asked him to help- once in a while- just for some kind of small break- was that because he worked to support us, he shouldn't have to take on any additional work in the home. Like you, I gave up asking- just took it on myself.

I hope you can figure out some way to get a break for yourself. Being sleep deprived and constantly with little ones isn't good for you, or for them. It is hard to take steps to improve things when you are so exhausted and don't have time to collect your thoughts.

A solution for me was some preschool programs, getting sitters sometimes to get some kind of break. I know that this may feel like justifying an extra expense when you are the stay at home dad, but it's good for you, and good for the kids. The kids enjoy having someone new to play with. If the funds aren't there for this, perhaps a sitting exchange with a friend. They invite the kids to play with theirs, you invite their kid(s) back.  Sometimes I would even have a teen age sitter come to the home to play with my kids while I stayed there, but in another room getting some of my personal things done. Another idea is a play group- the kids play, the parents talk. It's adult company. Yes, it could be all mothers, but in a group- that is still safe. Meeting a mom one on one might lead to issues you don't want. Maybe there is even another dad to do this with- kids play, you two hang out while you watch them.

While you only have one car, perhaps it is possible to drive your wife to work sometimes and have the car for the day. If she objects, then use public transportation- taxis- to get places. Take the kids to the park, a museum, just to get out. It is good for all of you. Get a sitter or put them in a preschool program and you get out on your own if you can. Even a walk in the park by yourself can do you good.


There may be things to work on in your marriage, and the outcome isn't certain, but trying to tackle these issues when you are exhausted and constantly busy doesn't put you in a position to be clear headed. I think taking care of yourself will put you in a better frame of mind to work on relationship issues.
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Krato

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« Reply #8 on: February 03, 2017, 07:11:09 PM »

Hi All, and thanks Notwendy for your latest reply.

Just wanted to update you all that I am feeling much better now. I started studying again (excited to see grown up people and spend time in silence!) and got the kids to join full-time daycare. So I am feeling a lot more refreshed and clear headed to make decisions about the future. I actually also got my wife to sign marriage agreement so I don't even have to think about financial consequences now in case I decide to file for divorce some time later. Sleeping so much better now!

At the moment I just want to see how things plan out with this new arrangement. My wife has been spending more time now with our kids and she is always exhausted already after first few hours (as I assumed). Most of the time she is irritable, mad at everyone or just plain tired. It seems she can never get enough sleep and this is the most common source of our conflicts. Kids are usually waking her up at day time, at night and in the mornings.

I guess my concerns now are how my wife would react if I'd break the news to her and I'm also concerned how she would manage with the kids without me. As opposed to many other writers here, I don't feel I have any dependency issues towards her. I could leave her today if I could just be sure she and the kids would be ok without me and she would not hurt me, herself or the children when she discovers I am leaving her.

Interesting thing is, we haven't been intimate for 1,5 years, in my opinion I treat her like crap, she sleeps on the livingroom sofa, we barely talk (as all things I say usually awoke a negative response) and still she maintains the facade of being happily in a working marriage. I am not sure whether she is in complete denial or does she think so highly of herself that she thinks I would never leave her, no matter what.
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Krato

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« Reply #9 on: February 07, 2017, 12:49:11 PM »

Today I would welcome any tips from anyone on how to control your own anger and rage while living with a BPD partner. I have identified this to be my biggest issue at the moment. I try not to lose my temper (it would only feed her need for attention) but it's not healthy to store all that darkness inside me either.

Earlier I posted that I have practically already given up on all hope for her doing chores in the house or thinking about anyone else except herself. I just couldn't handle being so pissed off about it all the time so it was easier to just imagine myself as a full custody single dad. It did help for a moment. But you know, those negative responses to everything, bossing around, blaming me and kids for everything, not doing anything in the house and so on. It's so hard to keep cool. Funny thing is, I try to keep "low contact" while still living under same roof. I get blamed for that too (for not listening, for not telling things to her)

Humor perhaps? Maybe day-dreaming about throwing her out of the house and our lives? Medication? Therapist? What tricks have you used?
What's your opinion on giving ultimatums to NPD's and BPD's? "If things don't change around here, there will be consequences!"

We all know "Talk to her about your feelings" does not work, she would just see it as criticism and personal attack and my life would just become much harder. I have to say I am very bad at validating her emotions. For example when I have slept 5 hours and she has 9 hours and she complains about having been woken up by me and the kids so many times during the night. I just cannot work myself to being validating on those moments... "Oh honey, I'm so sorry, let's try to arrange you a nap later or in the evening. I'll watch the kids". Even if I was sarcastic in that statement, I'm sure she wouldn't see it. Her reaction would be closer to "Yes, true. I have been working so hard lately that I do deserve it". Besides, she will take the nap anyway no matter what I say or do.
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purekalm
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« Reply #10 on: February 07, 2017, 02:28:44 PM »

Hey Krato,

 

A lot of different things have helped at different times. One is writing here of course. I spend time with God and let all my frustrations out.

 A website called www.angermanagementresource.com/ has helped. It deals with the fact that anger is not bad and how to use it effectively and ways to deal with it in a healthy/healing manner.

When you're exhausted, don't have time and are frustrated and angry yourself, that's when it's hard to put anything into practice. Even though I tried really hard I still struggled to keep it together and sometimes ended up making things worse.

Quote from: Krato
What's your opinion on giving ultimatums to NPD's and BPD's? "If things don't change around here, there will be consequences!"

First, I'd say ask yourself how you'd feel if someone gave you an ultimatum, then amplify that feeling times a thousand. It never goes well. I know from experience. I don't believe it's impossible, because I've done it myself and although it made everything worse for a time I stuck to it. You have to weigh the possible benefits and ramifications because you know her best.

Think about the best way to approach her. Would she react better if you said you needed to have a serious conversation and set a date? Would she react better if you just suddenly sprung it all on her without warning, even if you weren't sounding angry or sarcastic? In general I'd say they act like children but resent being treated as such and react in a childish way to said treatment. It's a difficult thing to work with. I hope someone else can offer advice as well.

Quote from: Krato
"Oh honey, I'm so sorry, let's try to arrange you a nap later or in the evening. I'll watch the kids". Even if I was sarcastic in that statement, I'm sure she wouldn't see it. Her reaction would be closer to "Yes, true. I have been working so hard lately that I do deserve it". Besides, she will take the nap anyway no matter what I say or do.

I would say something like, "I'm sorry you kept getting woke up, I did too taking care of the boys." I wouldn't offer help and wouldn't complain, just keep moving on. In this way you're validating her, but also yourself. You didn't say you got woke up AND took care of the boys, just implied it. You didn't add you had less sleep and you certainly didn't offer, sarcastically or not, to help her slack off more. My H was the same. Literally the only thing he did was work, yet if I was sick, (even to the point I was almost hospitalized a few times) I still had to do it all without complaint. But, I didn't. I was just ticked and tired of fighting. I stopped asking for help that didn't come anyways.

Hang in there Krato. 

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Krato

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« Reply #11 on: February 11, 2017, 05:35:53 PM »

First, I'd say ask yourself how you'd feel if someone gave you an ultimatum, then amplify that feeling times a thousand. It never goes well. I know from experience. I don't believe it's impossible, because I've done it myself and although it made everything worse for a time I stuck to it. You have to weigh the possible benefits and ramifications because you know her best.

Thanks purekalm 

She has very strong narcissistic flavor in her BPD. So I know it would work better if I took the "I am a bad husband, you deserve better, I don't treat you the way you deserve to be treated, you can still find that MD who has tattoos and plays in a rockband and be happy with him, when we have divorced you can go out as much as you like and sleep as much as you like, I won't be around to nag you about eating so much candy and fast food and not doing any housework" and so on. She would buy it.

But. I am thinking would she deserve a one more chance before I pull the plug? If I told her all those things that bug me (yes, huge rage alert), she would at least have a fair chance to try to change herself. I know it won't happen, but at least that way it would be a fair chance. After that I could have a clear conscience. There is still that little voice inside me which is saying that maybe it's just me who is the selfish, lazy one and doesn't want to spend all his free time with kids and doing house work like a superdad should do.
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« Reply #12 on: February 11, 2017, 06:30:05 PM »

Hey Krato,

No prob. This is all really hard stuff.

Quote from: Krato
But. I am thinking would she deserve a one more chance before I pull the plug? ... .After that I could have a clear conscience. There is still that little voice inside me which is saying that maybe it's just me who is the selfish, lazy one and doesn't want to spend all his free time with kids and doing house work like a superdad should do.

Your clear conscience is paramount here since you don't need to be feeling guilty while trying to recover and take care of your boys should she not respond well.

All I can tell you is that I did the same thing. My 'last chance' ended up being a few of them and in the end he walked out on me. Even after that I gave him a chance when he started talking about coming home and how he would be different and it was all a lie. I wanted so badly to believe it because even though he doesn't love me, I love him deeply and it hurts.

The good thing for me is that I don't feel guilty. I used to think the same what if's all the time and if I tried to look at from an outside perspective like my life was someone else's, well, I realized I had already done everything. I've told him over and over that I'd like some love and respect for me and our son, but it never seemed to get through.

I hope for you and your boys that it does work, that maybe it wakes her up if you decide to tell her. If it doesn't, no more chances are probably going to work. They seem to stay stuck and unable to learn and mature in relationships.

Whatever you decide, know that you've considered all options and even sought outside opinions to make sure you're doing everything you can. It's hard at times, but don't beat yourself up. From what you've written you're doing the best you can in your situation.

 
Purekalm
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Can You Help Us Stay on the Air in 2024?

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Our 2023 Financial Sponsors
We are all appreciative of the members who provide the funding to keep BPDFamily on the air.
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