Circular Arguments

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Ok

I am struggling with this, my BPD partner has been very difficult to live with lately. In essence alternating between 'distant and uncommunicative' and raging about... .well just about anything. In essence though these rages have of course sought to 'blame me' for whatever problem he is encountering.

Example, he took a new phone contract then forgetting to cancel it when he realised it was not affordable is presented with a large bill = my fault. Cat needed vaccination visit to vet, he forgot to book it last week = My fault.

I have done my best to deescalate or avoid these situations but over the past couple of weeks, tried to detach and focus on tidying the garden and do some work around the house but all the time could feel my sense of injustice and resentment building, bit like a volcano about to explode!

I am aware of the futility of circular arguments but last night it just happened. I was going to watch TV and when the remote didn't work I simply stated 'oh looks like the TV has been unplugged'. This resulted in a steady stream of invective about how I always blame him for everything, how I must have done it to 'confuse him' that I am setting him up by playing tricks! Apparently I also moved all his 'stuff' last week even though I have been nowhere near his room! There was a whole host of other stuff about how he hated living here because apparently I forced him to be with me and I must be a lunatic, interestingly accusing me of being sick with BPD and how I was worse than his Father (whom he hated with a vengeance).

I calmly stated that he was free to leave if he wanted to, but of course that only increased the paranoid response of 'ah just as you planned all along, you only wanted me to live with you so you could get rid of me'.

Well enough, I let rip - not proud of it but of course it just led to one of those bloody round and round circular arguments that took us nowhere and despite my exhaustion after a bus day at work I had a horrible nights sleep with some pretty nasty nightmares.

This morning of course I am acutely aware of getting involved in the circular debate, he is now trying to be nice and I am responding with with difficulty but avoiding contact as much as possible, in fact I think I might take a weekend break and go away to get some space just to clear my head.

Ok I know to them Emotions = Facts, but last night I just could not let go the emotional sense of injustice that such accusations have built up in me.

I am sure this is a common story but just needed to get it off my chest and also see how others deal with this stuff

Thanks

[ortac77]

Ok

I am struggling with this, my BPD partner has been very difficult to live with lately. In essence alternating between 'distant and uncommunicative' and raging about... .well just about anything. In essence though these rages have of course sought to 'blame me' for whatever problem he is encountering.

Example, he took a new phone contract then forgetting to cancel it when he realised it was not affordable is presented with a large bill = my fault. Cat needed vaccination visit to vet, he forgot to book it last week = My fault.

I have done my best to deescalate or avoid these situations but over the past couple of weeks, tried to detach and focus on tidying the garden and do some work around the house but all the time could feel my sense of injustice and resentment building, bit like a volcano about to explode!

I am aware of the futility of circular arguments but last night it just happened. I was going to watch TV and when the remote didn't work I simply stated 'oh looks like the TV has been unplugged'. This resulted in a steady stream of invective about how I always blame him for everything, how I must have done it to 'confuse him' that I am setting him up by playing tricks! Apparently I also moved all his 'stuff' last week even though I have been nowhere near his room! There was a whole host of other stuff about how he hated living here because apparently I forced him to be with me and I must be a lunatic, interestingly accusing me of being sick with BPD and how I was worse than his Father (whom he hated with a vengeance).

I calmly stated that he was free to leave if he wanted to, but of course that only increased the paranoid response of 'ah just as you planned all along, you only wanted me to live with you so you could get rid of me'.

Well enough, I let rip - not proud of it but of course it just led to one of those bloody round and round circular arguments that took us nowhere and despite my exhaustion after a bus day at work I had a horrible nights sleep with some pretty nasty nightmares.

This morning of course I am acutely aware of getting involved in the circular debate, he is now trying to be nice and I am responding with with difficulty but avoiding contact as much as possible, in fact I think I might take a weekend break and go away to get some space just to clear my head.

Ok I know to them Emotions = Facts, but last night I just could not let go the emotional sense of injustice that such accusations have built up in me.

I am sure this is a common story but just needed to get it off my chest and also see how others deal with this stuff

Thanks

[Lucky Jim]

in fact I think I might take a weekend break and go away to get some space just to clear my head.

Hey ortac, Great idea!  It's easy to lose perspective in the throes of a BPD r/s.  Do you have a close friend or family member with whom you can confide?  A BPD r/s can be extremely isolating.  Circular arguments -- been there, done that, and never resolved anything.

LuckyJim

[ortac77]

Yes gone away for a few days. Need it to get my head straight, today the rages increased, having returned from lunch I was confronted with glasses being thrown and smashed. I was fearful of a physical attack so I (as calmly as I could) turned around to leave and he threw himself on the front of my car to try and stop me.

Police called and matter resolved, they actually listened and took partner to his mental health team, he is due to have another psych evaluation Monday and we will see what comes out of that!

Its been draining emotionally and I feel done in but I have spoken to the Domestic Abuse Team and got a lot off my chest, I hope that I can recover with a few days to get over my stress reaction and I leave the experts to work out what is best for him. I know I cannot deal with this anymore as it will destroy me.

Too emotional to say more at moment, god how I hate this illness and what it does to us.

[babyducks]

Hi Ortac.

I am sorry you went through that.   I know how draining it is.   You handled that the best anyone could.

I imagine your stress level is on the roof.   I know mine would be.   

When you feel up to it let us know how you are doing, okay?

'ducks

[formflier]

I too want to commend you for handling this the way that you did.

Is this the first time that you have felt physically threatened or had to involve the police?

Where will your partner be sleeping/staying until the psych eval?

Hang in there... .  

FF

[ortac77]

Thanks for your comments, they help :-)

Yes my stress levels are running high but I am staying away until Monday and doing stuff to help lower my stress, I will also talk to my therapist and GP Monday as I know that I need further support.

He is in a safe place until Monday when longer term decisions about what happens from here can be started.

He does have a history of violence, once towards me about 5 years ago  and he was arrested and he also attacked a Police Officer about 4 years ago. This was before his diagnosis, since when things have been better.

Of late he has been neglecting his treatment and things have been building up and Alcohol has been involved, a dangerous and volatile combination. We also moved house 6 months ago and I suspect the stresses involved with that have not helped.

All said at the moment I know that I must concentrate on me, I am still too upset to see any long term solution and can only keep it in the day. At least yesterday is on file with the Police who have placed me on their 'at risk' register, his Mental Health Team have been forced by circumstance to do further evaluation and risk assessment, a neighbour who has been incredibly supportive is attending with him, I cannot do that at the moment.

The Domestic Abuse team locally have also been very helpful and supportive.

I am trying not to go into 'Victim' mode, whilst a little bit of poor me is soothing I know that it won't help my recovery, so I will use the support structures I have and work my way through this.

I know that I have to guard against anger, I know that I must and am entitled to feel it but I need to find a way to sit with it safely.

Thank you for your support

[formflier]

I am trying not to go into 'Victim' mode, whilst a little bit of poor me is soothing I know that it won't help my recovery, so I will use the support structures I have and work my way through this.

I know that I have to guard against anger, I know that I must and am entitled to feel it but I need to find a way to sit with it safely.
 

 


I am impressed by your wisdom and the "intentionality" with which you are approaching this.

Please take some walks or do things like that this weekend.

I think a call to a lawyer for a consultation is in order... .after talking to GP and T. 

I'm not suggesting any action... .you need to gather information.  Compare what L says to the DV people... .the idea is to have legal protections while being able to still support potential recovery.

FF

[babyducks]

Hi Ortac

All said at the moment I know that I must concentrate on me, I am still too upset to see any long term solution and can only keep it in the day.

What you have been through is traumatic.   Everyone would be upset, angry, overwhelmed.

the one day at time approach is a good one, along with keeping it simple.

I think you are probably 100% correct, moving houses contributed to this situation.

my partner was doing very well,  in therapy, taking medication,  making progress.  we had gone through a long period without any emotional dsyregulations.   and then her health insurance changed and her Mental health team had to change.   People she had worked with for years were 'gone' and new people she had never met before were reopening her story.    It was too much for her.   She regressed.  Sadly that single change was more than she could tolerate.   

If you don't mind me asking, what kind of longer term decision are in play for you and him?

'ducks

[ortac77]

Hi Ducks

Yes it was traumatic, being away for a period has helped me deal with the trauma and put it into perspective, I had a lovely day yesterday walking, enjoyed a nice dinner and spent time 'engaging' with the real world - that is my way of dealing with strong feelings and reminds me that they are just that - feelings and that I am OK.

Yes I think the house move was a large trigger and I am sure my normal coping mechanisms and resilience were also at low levels as well, this event being a sharp reminder to me of the need to make space for my needs as well.

As for longer term decisions there are various options, I am taking some time now to set out my thoughts (just for me) on what will need to be in place for me to continue in this relationship. He is seeing his mental health team tomorrow, I know they plan a further evaluation and to some degree I am taking a backward step on that, although I will be speaking to them also as I am in that position of being the 'wounded party' but also his advocate in trying to secure proper long term help.

Longer term decisions are not yet in my mind, I am more focussed on the short term, ensuring that I have the tools in place to maintain my serenity whilst seeking to help him obtain whatever help he needs from the 'experts'. One thing for sure is that I need to make sure that I take plenty of 'time outs' but that I also need to do some work on boundaries.

Because some of his thinking lately has been quite paranoid perhaps there is more going on than just BPD but I leave that to the psychiatric team to work out.

One day at a time is definitely my watchword here

[formflier]

I will be speaking to them also as I am in that position of being the 'wounded party' but also his advocate in trying to secure proper long term help.

Longer term decisions are not yet in my mind, I am more focussed on the short term, ensuring that I have the tools in place to maintain my serenity whilst seeking to help him obtain whatever help he needs from the 'experts'. One thing for sure is that I need to make sure that I take plenty of 'time outs' but that I also need to do some work on boundaries.

Because some of his thinking lately has been quite paranoid perhaps there is more going on than just BPD but I leave that to the psychiatric team to work out.

Truth be known... .my wife is likely more PPD than BPD.  Paranoia seems to be her "core issue"

The two things that I would rank tops in learning to "thrive again" in a r/s with paranoia.

1.  Boundaries.  Especially understanding extinction bursts and how to evaluate if a boundary is working properly or not.

2.  Solid T support for me.  I've had several Ts over the years.  For about a year now I've been with my favorite.  PhD level psychologist, 30 years or so of experience and has personal experience being married to a paranoid person. 

She has helped me develop a better sense of self and purpose.  Yes I focus on carving out plenty of "me time" to keep my batteries charged up, but my primary focus is to help my kids develop healthy emotional skills.

Paranoia is toughest when it's "not so bad".  In other words, when my wife was alleging I tried to use a sex toy to kill her... .it was so obviously preposterous that it was easy to "put in its proper place" so I don't get hooked.

Compared to yesterday morning when I briefly engaged (got hooked) by an accusation that "you always do what you want and never pay attention to me".  Backstory:  My oldest daughter was going back to college soon.  I had planned for couple days to take her to breakfast on Sat morning.  My wife tried several things to derail that... .or at least had appearances of that effort.

I took my daughter to breakfast and had a wonderful time

I'm glad you are here.  Keep up the good work.

FF

[babyducks]

Hi Ortac,

Boy I wish I could get out for a walk.   In better weather I enjoying walking and bike riding.   The bike riding has been wonderful for my serenity.   Where I am the weather is atrocious.   No exaggeration, 7 below 0 (F)  with heavy snow, getting outside is really not an option.   I miss the exercise but find gyms to be boring.

My person was diagnosed with Bipolar 1 and "something else I don't want to talk about" i.e. BPD.   I couldn't for the longest time tell them apart.   Eventually I got to the point where I could identify the difference even if sometimes it was in hind sight.

Strangely, towards the end of our time together she started to morph.    I know there is a lot of overlap in the cluster B disorders but I was surprised at how she seemed to almost slip out of classic BPD and land more in Psychopathic Narcissism.   I didn't think that was possible.   The mental health team involved with us noticed it too but there wasn't enough time and bandwidth to address why the change.  I almost think when the Bipolar was in better control she was more BPD, but when the Bipolar wasn't in control she presented as more NPD.    Odd stuff.

here is to hoping we both have a good day today, one with walks, talks and friendly normal conversation.

'ducks

[formflier]

For me it's been swimming.  We moved a bit over a year ago.  I'm walking distance to a community center that has several lanes dedicated to lap swimming.

In good weather I walk over... .I haven't walked in a while... .

Great exercise that doesn't aggravate my disabilities and provides lots of time to think things through.

FF

[ortac77]

Yes its not too warm here either - just hovering around freezing and dull and damp, but walking has always been my favourite way of clearing my head, gyms don't do it for me!

My feet are now killing me (I have arthritis, not bad but this damp weather makes it worse).

All I know is I feel a lot better and much more able to face tomorrow - whatever it brings -

Its nice to know that I am not alone and this forum is so helpful in restoring faith in 'normality'

x

[Grey Kitty]

Be gentle with yourself--you are doing the best you can, and keep in mind that your best when you are feeling well rested and peaceful is a lot better than your best when you are exhausted and frustrated.

Well enough, I let rip - not proud of it but of course it just led to one of those bloody round and round circular arguments that took us nowhere and despite my exhaustion after a bus day at work I had a horrible nights sleep with some pretty nasty nightmares.

Give yourself credit for at least figuring it out on your own the next morning, before you even had to post about it here too!

... .and one suggestion for next time... .

When a circular argument or dysregulation comes up, be mindful of your own mental/emotional state and your own capacity at that time. Here are a few things I've done when I didn't have it in me to do good validation, or anything of the sort, or try to explain why or how I was upset:

  Tried not to slam the door and tried not to shout as I was going out "If I stay any longer, I'll do or say something I'll regret later." Sometimes I managed that more calmly than others; I did it several times.

  Responding in an emotionally neutral fashion "f*** you".

This was trying to communicate the following: 1. What you said was hurtful and provocative. 2. I don't have it in me to discuss this further right now. (Because if I tried to explain it calmly, I would get something invalidating telling me that I had no right to feel hurt or angry, because it was all my fault.)

It even worked well sometimes. Your use of such language and your communication style may be different than mine, so you may need to adapt that one a bit to use it safely if you don't normally speak this way.   

[ACObound]

Just thought I would add some positive thought on the exercising(numerous posts ago),    cycling... .is a religion to me... Living in the upper Midwest however causes issues in the winter .
  I bought a fat tire bike and all the layered gear to survive and I have been out pedaling in 4 degree weather. 
Saving my life... .well worth the investment which is not as much as you might think.

Take care of yourself in whatever mode you choose but do not choose not to

[ortac77]

Well things have calmed down a lot, my partner has both a physical and psychiatric evaluation booked and in hindsight although last week was traumatic I am glad the mental health team have seen him 'at his worst' - it means they have had to be more vigilant and understand that he can prevent a risk to himself and others.

For my part I am keeping detached, not avoidance or distant but maintaining a healthy degree of separation and ensuring that I am doing those things I enjoy

[formflier]

  healthy degree of separation and ensuring that I am doing those things I enjoy

This is critical to do... .and critical to understand the principle involved here.  After a period of relative calm, my last few days have been interesting... .putting it kindly.

As I focused on detaching (separating) to keep a healthy distance... .I was deliberate about adding a couple extra things in the day... .just for me.

Big picture:  Many of us found these boards because we were spending far too much time looking for our own validation to come from a disordered person.  Likely got sucked into how great that validation felt during the "white" phase.  As we mature in this life of living with a disordered person we understand more and more that we need to be our own source of validation and approval.

For me, it's taken a lot of work, and sometimes felt odd... .but it has been well worth the effort.

FF