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Author Topic: Is mom really abusive or am I overreacting?  (Read 719 times)
Ladybug123

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« on: January 07, 2017, 02:43:07 PM »

Hi guys. I'm new here.

After my mother told me "just forget we were ever related," I have been having a really hard time. The shocker was when, after 8 whole hours to think about what she said, she sent a Facebook message pretty much reiterating that we should just go our separate ways, worry about only ourselves and not expect anything from each other. What provoked her: She has a temporary health condition that is painful and makes standing and walking very difficult. A couple weeks prior to her dumping me, she told me a social worker gave her the names of some organizations that could help her with dishes, laundry, bathing, etc. and that she was interested and would call them. Although I live 45 minutes away, have a full-time job and 3 kids, I frequently go there to do laundry and clean. During our latest phone call, she guilt-tripped me for not coming over the day before, even though I had told her I probably wouldn't be able to because I had to work. I repeated that I needed to work. She asked if I could at least go there on the following Sunday and I said yes. Then I told her I have a lot going on in my life and can't go there as often as she needs me too and did she talk to any of those organizations for help. She freaked, yelled "just forget we were ever related" and hung up the phone.

I've pretty much despised my mother my whole life. I guess when I was little, I didn't understand, but when I was in 7th grade on up, I knew she was a mean, controlling ___ but I didn't have a name for what was happening. I just knew that I hated her and she was the thing I was so sad/mad about that made me think about suicide. I felt like I would never get out from under her thumb. It never seemed like a problem would get solved. There would be arguments between us or between her and Dad where she would end up yelling, blaming, guilt-tripping and overall just acting like a child followed by her stomping up the stairs and slamming the door to her room. Then we wouldn't see her for a while. Dad and I were never allowed to act that way but she seemed to think it was okay if she did it. She never apologized for it and we would give her what she wanted or never bring it up again, fearing that she would freak out again. She has always been overbearing and intrusive and would steal the spotlight from me all the time. For birthdays, she would invite her friend's kids that aren't even my friends, for my graduation party, she invited a whole slew of her friends, hired a band that played her music, get drunk and be the life of the party. For my wedding, she invited her friends and was again the life of the party. For everything, she was the center of attention.

She would seem caring and giving (by giving, I mean material things) one day and embarrass and shame me the next. And called me names or accused me of various character flaws, like "don't be selfish," "quit being a drama queen," "you're too sensitive." She would embarrass me too. When I was a little girl, I had a bad reaction to a certain kind of bubble bath. She has told that story so many times right in front of me to her friends, my friends, my boyfriends and husband and she would tell them about how I said my peepee got itchy from it. How the hell is that anyone's business and why is it so significant that it has to be brought up so often? Who wouldn't think that was embarrassing? She also has said multiples times throughout my life that I have a "bubble butt" just like her (whatever that means) and that I'm a bad singer like her.

So here's my problem. I'm stuck between accepting she's abusive and thinking maybe she's just mean and that I'm overreacting, AM to sensitive and a drama queen and just want an excuse to never talk to her again. I keep trying to convince myself of both - going back and forth. I'm also feeling very guilty because she's alone (Dad died 3 years ago) and now temporarily disabled. She has friends who live close but I have this nagging voice in my head saying she's all alone and needs her daughter, and who would ever want to think their daughter doesn't love or care about her. When she dumped me, I waited a couple days and then blocked her on Facebook. Coincidentally, my cellphone ran out of minutes and I haven't had the money to get it back up again. Even though she can write letters, get messages to me through my sister, or email me, I feel like I'm letting her down and being mean. Ahhh! My logical brain says she's the one who has problems, but another part of me says I'm overreacting.
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Notwendy
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« Reply #1 on: January 07, 2017, 03:07:52 PM »

For my wedding, she invited her friends and was again the life of the party. For everything, she was the center of attention.

My wedding too.

Ladybug, your childhood sounds a lot like mine. My mother is also widowed. She'd love it if I waited on her hand and foot, did all the housework, and took care of her needs 24/7 and still, one mistake on my part and she'd paint me black.  

I too had to set boundaries. I have my own family and job. Like you, I would be kind to my elderly mother- I think it is a good thing to help an elderly parent, but when that parent is abusive- yes verbally abusive- like your mother is, we need to have some boundaries. Don't expect your mother to like your boundaries. Like my mom, she had her way with us. If we didn't listen to her, dad would get angry. Like you though, I despised my mother when I was a teen and loved my father. As an adult, I see her more as a person with a mental illness - not someone to be despised, but abusive behavior is despicable. I don't tolerate that and neither do you have to. I have friends who speak lovingly about their mother. I don't feel that way about my mother- and don't see the relationship as loving. I do see her as someone who is mentally ill and have empathy for that.

Although your mother said what she said to you- forget the relationship, I bet that was said in the heat of the moment. A likely outcome is that she will contact you eventually and act as if nothing happened. But if you bring it up, she will either deny it or make it sound like it was your idea. With black and white thinking, it is one or the other. I have experienced this cycle several times with my mother. Been disowned/written out of the will and back in a few times. She's raged at me that she won't send my kids presents, then when the holidays come around, asks me what they want.

I think it is very helpful to not take this behavior personally. It is a reflection of your mothers inability to modulate her own emotions, black and white thinking, and the Karpman triangle where she feels like a victim. Understanding this helps us to keep our cool and not react to their moods.

As to helping her around the house- only do what you can do or want to do. You can have boundaries about this.

Some posters here have chosen to cut contact with their abusive parents. You have that choice. I chose to remain in contact- with boundaries. If my mother chooses to cut off the relationship- well that is her choice. However ,in my experience, she changes her mind later.


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Ladybug123

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« Reply #2 on: January 07, 2017, 05:24:18 PM »

Thank you. It's so nice to be understood. For now, I've chosen no contact at least until I can simmer down some. I am way too mad/sad/confused to talk to her. Besides, I'm terrified of her now. I was already always afraid of her but now, after hearing her go apesh*t on me, I just don't want to ever see her again. What gets me the most is that she had a full 8 hours to calm down and realize what she said was awful but instead of apologizing or saying she wanted to talk about it, she reiterated that we should split. We all say stupid stuff sometimes, but when we get a chance to cool off, we usually regret it and want to apologize. Not her!


My big sister said mom complained that she was running out of children but didn't tell her it was HER who dumped ME. Sis has been very supportive. She's awesome! She told me to follow my heart and I had to do what was best for me. She knows what it's like. Mom has slapped me on the face, thrown a can of sharpened pencils at me, pulled my hair, yanked me down to the ground, etc., but she actually pushed a dresser onto my sister when she was very young. She could've seriously been hurt! Apparently she was but it could've been so much worse. My sister gets it.

I hope I will eventually be able to see mom as someone with a mental illness more than just feel that anger towards her. Not because I'm worried about her feelings but because I know anger and hate is not good for me. But right now, I feel like soaking in my anger.
 It's so very difficult to not take it personally but I hope I can get to that point.
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Notwendy
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« Reply #3 on: January 07, 2017, 06:47:47 PM »

It's important to feel our feelings and to pay attention to them. You are correct in that not continuing to be angry is for our benefit- and only when we choose to. I still have moments of anger- but it helps me to know her behavior is about her- not me.

I also consider her to be accountable for her behavior. Even with a mental illness- the behavior isn't acceptable. Learning about BPD helps me to understand the causes of it- and that helps me realize it wasn't about me- it isn't normal to abuse your children. I didn't deserve that and neither did you. Like all kids- I deserved to be loved. She wasn't able to do that, but it doesn't change that. I also don't look to her for love or approval- if I understand she has so much inner turmoil she can't give it.

Your first obligation is to your well being. Whether that is NC or LC or NC for now. It is sad that she's alone -but that is the consequence of her behavior.
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« Reply #4 on: January 09, 2017, 04:18:28 PM »

Hello Ladybug 

Welcome ! I am happy you found us. Everyone here will relate to what you are writing because we all know one or more BPD people, and for some of us they are parents.

My mum is  BPD. I recognize what you wrote here :

Excerpt
I'm stuck between accepting she's abusive and thinking maybe she's just mean and that I'm overreacting

I think this feeling stems from our childhood patterns. We had to accept abnormal family situations and yet were forced to believe (and believed, as a result) that they were normal. It's only natural that, as adults, we sometimes still doubt: was it us ?

From what I read : no, I was not you. But I completely understand this feeling you have, because I sometimes have it too, and I have read on these boards that other members also sometimes have it.

And I think ... .even if we would be overreacting... .it really doesn't matter : we still have the power to make decisions that make us happy. It does not even matter if there is a BPD label or not. We can still make decisions that are in our best interest.

Please keep posting !
x
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Ladybug123

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« Reply #5 on: January 09, 2017, 07:31:02 PM »

Thank you. I have a feeling I'm going to need to be reminded over and over that it's not me, it's her. It really is hard to stop believing the lies I lived as a child.

I'm really grateful to have found this site!
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Kyanite

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« Reply #6 on: January 09, 2017, 08:03:03 PM »

I am new here, too, but I can relate to some of what you said. My mom told a ton of stories (still does), regardless of how embarrassing they would be. It was always fine for her to get angry and blow up, but if we weren't just the right amount of happy, she would explode about that, too.

Setting boundaries is not an overreaction, nor is holding them. Is it possible that you are reacting strongly to this? Maybe. But that doesn't mean that she isn't ALSO asking more than is reasonable and very possibly being abusive. You might want to look into narcissistic personality disorder as well for some of her traits.

This is a great board with lots of good people, so I am glad you found it (us?) for support.
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Ladybug123

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« Reply #7 on: January 09, 2017, 08:10:19 PM »

Oh that woman!

So much for no contact. She's a tricky evil woman.

Yesterday, I got a message from my sister that mom wanted to talk. I ignored it.  Today, she sent a friend to my house, who told me she was really sick and had to stay in the hospital for 4 days and almost died. So I called her and asked her what was going on. She sounded very relaxed. I asked her where she was and she said she was just sitting at home in her recliner. I told her I heard she was in the hospital for 4 days and almost died. She said her friend must have misunderstood. What? How do you misunderstand that?

Then she started the guilt trip. She was totally blameless and I MADE her feel bad. I told her I did not MAKE her do anything and SHE was the one who said "just forget we were ever related." Then, she adamantly denied she ever said it! Wow! She changed the entire event to make it like I was the bad guy and she doesn't know why I just stopped talking to her and I don't care about her and blah, blah, blah.

I finally said I had to get back to work.

Ooh, I also said that I would not tolerate her talking to me like that. I felt so brave!
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Ladybug123

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« Reply #8 on: January 09, 2017, 08:15:43 PM »

Hi Kyanite. What normal person tells shaming and embarrassing stories about their kids, right? Your kids trust you! When my daughter confides in me, I would never dream of breaking that trust. It's hard to understand.

I think she is narcissistic. I'm going to read up on it more but so far, when I read articles about narcissistic mothers, I can so relate.
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Ladybug123

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« Reply #9 on: January 12, 2017, 12:12:02 PM »

I'm having a really hard time deciding on NC, LC or just waiting it out. My mom developed an infection in her spine that is causing her a lot of pain, keeping her from walking or driving, and requiring a lot of visits to the hospital (3 hours away).

I want NC but that'll be difficult for two reasons: She will find ways to get messages to me that will guilt me (I've already been contacted twice by a friend of hers - once telling me she almost died, which was not true but told to me to be simply a misunderstanding; and a second time telling me her infection was much worse than anyone thought (which I'm not sure I believe since the first lie). Soon, family members whom I really respect will be contacting me, I'm sure.

The other reason is that she is in a hard place right now because of this infection and not being able to go anywhere. Regardless of the last episode, I feel like it would be cruel to abandon her while she needs so much help (Dad died 3 years ago so she's alone except for a few friends).

I don't know what to do. Does anyone have any advice for me? I know it's up to me to decide, but any advice/info to at least aid me in helping myself figure this out would be soo appreciated.
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Notwendy
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« Reply #10 on: January 12, 2017, 12:39:59 PM »

I am in a similar position with my mother. Although she has done things that would be reasons to go NC, I don't feel comfortable doing this as she is an elderly widow.

We consider 3 things- FOG- Fear, Obligation, Guilt as emotionally unhealthy reasons to get sucked into these situations. Another one is co-dependency. NC is one way to deal with this, but it isn't the only way.

For me, I felt a sense of obligation, but not really to her, but to me, and to my own ethics- in a grander scheme of things- such as religion, also Karma- not wanting to be cruel if she needs help. I didn't create her the way she is, and she is responsible for her own actions. She may do mean things, but I have choices too- and choosing kindness includes kindness to myself and my family. It isn't kind to me to allow her drama to interrupt my sanity. NC is one way to manage this, but another one is- could I be LC with my mother and retain my sanity?

I did achieve some sense of this with my mother. It has also involved saying no to her, letting her be angry and do what she does when angry, and not budge on boundaries. Because I can do this, I can also be present with her and keep my cool. It took some work,- on co-dependency- and it is progress not perfection. But when I could choose LC because it felt best for me, not out of fear, guilt, or too much obligation ( I feel a sense of obligation to the person who is my mother, but only as much as I can also honor my obligation to myself) - I could choose to navigate LC.

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« Reply #11 on: January 12, 2017, 02:05:36 PM »

Hello Ladybug !

That is a very difficult decision to take ! I am so sorry for you that you are in this double bind. I know that these things are very hard.  

If I were in your situation, I know I would be feeling a lot of guilt if I choose NC. Guilt is something I have always struggled with in many situations, and I have found it to be incredibly debilitating. Of course my FOO is the source of this. Knowing this I do my very best to work with it but I think this is something I will have my whole life. Guilt sometimes makes me choose a way of life where I make things difficult for myself.

When I look at a situation as an outsider though, like as I look at yours now, I often have a different, and maybe milder, opinion. I think that yes, people should feel solidarity and certainly between families. I think empathy is one of the most important principles that we never have enough of in life. What we sometimes forget though, especially as children of BPD (who yes sometimes are codependent) is that we should also have empathy towards ourselves. If helping another requires so much of ourselves that we cannot be happy anymore, I truly think we should refrain. If you think that you will be stressed to a big extend if you keep helping your mum, if you think you will ruminate, you will worry, ... .then the balance of empathy should go towards you, not towards her.

You are also saying you have a sister. How is the relationship between her and your mother ? Would she be willing to stick around and help your mother get to the hospital ? You also mentioned other family members. What can they do ?
How long does your mum have to go to the clinic 3 hours away and how often ? Is there a way to get her there without any family member having to sacrifice a whole day for this ?

I am not saying you should go NC. I am just saying it is a realistic option. I do not think we have to sacrifice everything for someone just because they are family.

You also mentioned that you are very angry with your mother (understandable). If you keep visiting her while being angry I don't suppose this will create a positive climate between the two of you - so maybe the situation will get worse and worse until NC will be the only option for you left. One of the things to keep in mind here is that NC should not necessarily be forever.

Keep posting, maybe you'll start to see more clearly while doing it. Do not forget to listen to yourself : what do you need ? What are your needs to live a happy life ? Is LC an option for you ?
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cmm

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« Reply #12 on: January 17, 2017, 09:52:40 PM »

Hi Ladybug,

Welcome to the forum, I hope you find some support and answers here.  We with NPD mothers have been in your shoes in one way or another, so can relate perfectly to your frustration and pain.  I'm really sorry you're experiencing all this.

I related to so much of your post and wanted to tell you that it's normal to feel like maybe you're overreacting because you're a normal person with a conscience.  But NPD people are not normal and they can't be put in the same category expecting the same emotions.  You shouldn't feel guilty for leaving her to her lonely, angry self.  You don't owe her anything and instead owe yourself love and support.  Ask yourself this, "Would she do it for me?"  Chances are, no!  She wouldn't.  Not even close.  So I'd recommend making a separate set of rules for how to deal with her that don't apply to anyone else.  This is what I did with my NPD mother and it's been almost 10 years of NC.  My life couldn't be better.

She will always hurt you and disappoint you.  The question is how long you will allow yourself to be mistreated.  There is a thread on here with "8 months" in the title where we talk about the guilt trips and tantrums NPD throw when first going NC.  Maybe that would help you through NC a little, with some knowledge of how to handle it.

Sending you lots of support and courage,
cmm
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Ladybug123

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« Reply #13 on: January 17, 2017, 10:52:24 PM »

Well that's it, I'm done. NC all the way. She suckered me back in with lies and it's only been days of contact, and it's back to the same routine. Not remorseful, guilt trips galore and verbal attacks and accusations about my loyalty. So, even though I owe her nothing, I sent her a very short and to-the-point email that said she doesn't have the right to treat me like ___, don't call me, someone will let me know if there's an emergency (I'm power of attorney at least until I sign the resignation papers) and I need my space. I'm ready for the backlash, hit me with your best shot mom! I'm over it, gonna stop trying to convince myself that I care about her and accept that I just don't and its okay. Thank you for listening and sharing. You are all a huge help. This is some tough stuff. Can't imagine going through this without support. ❤
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Rock Chick
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Say Goodnight Gracie


« Reply #14 on: January 18, 2017, 04:02:19 AM »

Ladybug123, I don't think you are overreacting at all. It's hard to deal with abuse of any form esp. when its coming from a parent mental illness or not. You have ever right to have a reaction and to decide to put an end to the abuse by going no contact or super limited contact etc. Dont let her make you feel bad about your decision nor make you feel bad about having a life etc. You need to do this for your own health and sanity. P.S. Welcome to the forum! Hugs.
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Ladybug123

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« Reply #15 on: January 18, 2017, 04:13:46 PM »

She left a voicemail for me today. She said "you are not allowed to have a time-out!" She obviously got my email about needing space. She said "WE need to work this out. YOU CALL ME!"

I'm thinking What?  I'm not ALLOWED to have my space after a big argument? It's been less than 24 hours and I'm not even allowed to have a 24 hour break?

Then she sent me a very long email about how she lets me spend her money (she forces it down my throat, actually). I have no idea what she's been through (sure I do. I was calling her, helping her, asking how she was doing). How many times have I called her to see how she's doing? (Actually, of course, I've have a bunch). I show her no compassion or caring (again, yes I do). I have to share the blame in "this same old crap" because I won't accept her apology that she says she said several times (not true. Not several. Two. Two fake "I'm sorry's" and basically it was time to move on to how I could help her, now that we got that pesky sorry out of the way). She has NO IDEA what set me off last night and that all of a sudden I was reprimanding her (But she was there! How could she have no idea what happened?). She asked me how she was mean to me, then why can't I be there for her, she's depressed and scared and I have no compassion for her. She says my asking for space, don't call is hateful and more hurtful than anything she's ever said to me.

I see narcissist written all over this. Why do I still feel bad for her? Grrr! I'm soo unsure of myself. She really gets to me. I'm so well trained!
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Rock Chick
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Say Goodnight Gracie


« Reply #16 on: January 18, 2017, 06:01:37 PM »

I see a lot of similarities with behaviors, reactions and words with my bfs mom and yours ladybug123 for lack of better wording. Neither wants to give space and neither respects boundaries/wishes nor has respect in general for us. They contact us in many ways and many frequencies... .calling, voicemails, etc. 3,4,10,20,etc times (thank goodness my bf's mother doesnt know how to email and use facebook). Just because ones mom doesnt need the space etc doesnt mean you dont need it. You deserve to have some space to sort your thoughts and recover from things. Please take as much time as you need and just let her have her hissy fit and cycle threw her emotions etc. hopefully she will move on eventually. If not its her issue not yours. I know its easier said than done as we too go threw a lot of emotions and thinking etc. As for why do you feel bad for her? Because as with us (my bf and i) you too are human, you are a good person, you are caring, she is still your mom at the end of the day, etc. Try to be strong. Its not easy I know as they put us threw so much mentally emotionally and get in our minds our hearts etc. Hugs.
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cmm

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« Reply #17 on: January 18, 2017, 10:26:34 PM »

Ladybug, this is normal behavior and stand your ground!  It can last for several years.  Be strong, cease all contact and come here to talk if you feel pressure, weak, vulnerable or question yourself.  NC is a HUGE step and you made the right decision.  It will get harder before it gets easier, but hang in there because just over the crest of the hill is total bliss!
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Ladybug123

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« Reply #18 on: January 19, 2017, 08:14:18 PM »

Thank you for being there for me. This is so awful!

She sent another email:

She said "It's not uncommon for people who are going through something to become stressed, anxious and depressed. This changes their personality. I'm sorry I'm not myself" (but she IS being herself, and she also always blames stress or pain or adjusting to new meds). She said that a loving family helps out by running errands, phone calls and visiting... .(but I've been doing that all along!). She said "all I was expecting from you... my daughter... .to be more understanding, more compassionate, more helpful. Is there anyway you can just accept that for what it is and just let it go? It doesn't have to end up as being the same old crap if you would try a little harder to understand and help me." 
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cmm

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« Reply #19 on: January 19, 2017, 10:53:56 PM »

Ladybug -- nope! 

Excerpt
This changes their personality.
Excerpt

She's using sick, twisted reverse psychology that makes you feel like maybe there's something wrong with you. (there's not)

Excerpt
a loving family helps out by running errands, phone calls and visiting... .

Her sense of entitlement here.

Excerpt
Is there anyway you can just accept that for what it is and just let it go?

Dismissing/ignoring your feelings here.  She lacks empathy by not acknowledging her bad behavior OR that you ever felt hurt, confused and angry as a result.

Excerpt
the same old crap

Arrogant, haughty and blaming attitude here.  Again, trying to send you mixed messages that there's actually something wrong with you.

You've gotta cease all contact if NC is truly what you want to do.  The first thing I got from my NPD mother was retaliation.  They feel fearful that they're losing a person who is essential to their ego.  Who will she pick on when you're not there (someone else eventually, but you're an easy target).

Do yourself a big favor -- love, cherish and support yourself by taking great care of your emotions, feelings and needs.  You deserve so much better than this.  She will just keep recycling the same behaviors and actions if you continue to let her.

Sending you lots of support during this difficult time!   

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« Reply #20 on: January 20, 2017, 12:47:42 AM »

Why do I still feel bad for her? Grrr! I'm soo unsure of myself. She really gets to me. I'm so well trained!

I can only speak from my own experience: all of the doubts and questions you ask are very familiar in dealing with my own BPD mother.

I became trapped for years in both childhood and adulthood in a endless cycle of trying to please her, satiate the drama, try harder next time to make things right. I concluded that the more sympathetic and more empath your personality, the more you get sucked into the cycle! Feeding and validating someone's bad behaviour by trying too hard to do the right thing isn't going to fix the problem, in my experience!

The BPD can invoke great drama and in minutes behave as if nothing has happened, much to the confusion and frustration of those targeted by the behaviours! I realised that I had to modify my expectations when dealing with her - the normal rules simply don't apply! Thus, if confronted by an example, she might deny she ever did or said something; she will turn the issue back onto me - reason and cooperative debate that would normally apply to an adult relationship may simply not work!

There is also the cost on yourself - the stress, uncertainty, and possible other more lasting psychological effects. In this regard, my mother has been profoundly selfish.

I made a New Year's resolution for 2017 to put myself first.

But how can I justify being apparently so selfish myself? She is old and on her own!

In  my own case, I have had to accept that:

- her behaviours are not normal
- I have been the victim of very abusive behaviours that have had profoundly negative affects on my life
- in my opinion being "mentally ill" is not an excuse  (others may disagree) - she has volition (can control her behaviours if she really wants to) and has a sense of right and wrong and has had professional training on managing children and child abuse in qualifying as a primary school teacher - she has to take some accountability and responsibility for her behaviours

The question then becomes how I can best look after myself (number one), draw boundaries to limit the extent and effects of her behaviours and break contact as required to maintain my own mental health!

In the meantime, I just ignore the broken record guilt trips ("I can't find a gardener... .my computer isn't set up properly... .the internet isn't working... .if you were here you'd fix that and I wouldn't have a problem".

Please be strong and resolute and continue to use the excellent resources at hand! Please do look after yourself! It was a great help to find balance when someone first taught me about setting boundaries... .

  



  
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Turkish
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Relationship status: "Divorced"/abandoned by SO in Feb 2013; Mother with BPD, PTSD, Depression and Anxiety: RIP in 2021.
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Dad to my wolf pack


« Reply #21 on: January 20, 2017, 12:49:48 AM »

She sent another email:

She said "It's not uncommon for people who are going through something to become stressed, anxious and depressed. This changes their personality.

This sounds like something she copied off of the Internet.

How would I take this? I'd be angry and frustrated. Given the above,  I'd say at least she's searching for herself.  Given her targeting of you,  this sounds like a journey she needs to make on her own.  Her daughter is standing up to her, and it may be triggering enough to give her pause. Based upon what you've told us,  it sounds like her journey.  You also have yours. Narcissistic behaviors often serve to cover shame. 

We can certainly help guide you given the nugget she shared above (and this is my opinion,  others may disagree) in starting a conversation with her. 

Because of what you shared with us,  and your pain at this point,  it may be better to step back and evaluate your relationship. I really think that you stepping back, asserting boundaries,  made her think (keeping in mind that she's emotionally limited). NC (cold) is certainly an option.  Many here do it.  I've mostly done it myself (due to accusations of criminal elder abuse my mother made towards me,  and even more ridiculously, my 4 and 6 year old children). However,  you've triggered a "small blade of grass to grow" as my T once said,  by asserting your boundaries.  I really like this discussion and the concept of putting in context our boundaries:

1.08 | Boundaries - examples

Given the email communications now,  this discussion may also be helpful.  Be brief.  Don't over explain. This tends to provide too many targets:

TOOLS: Responding to hostile email

Take a look and tell us what you think.   Smiling (click to insert in post)

In the meantime,  emails can sit.  I remember my ex sent me an extremely triggering text one night.  I waited until late the next morning to respond. I was really angry.  Sometimes is better to "sleep on it. "

Turkish
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    “For the strength of the Pack is the Wolf, and the strength of the Wolf is the Pack.” ― Rudyard Kipling
Sisterluv

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« Reply #22 on: January 20, 2017, 07:41:02 AM »

Hi ladybug,
I think you should stay NC and reach out to one of those respected relatives as a way to stay up to speed on your mother's health. I did this while in NC and it has been very helpful. The 'relative ' should be a trusted person and simply keep the communication confidential.
All the best,
Sister luv
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Ladybug123

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« Reply #23 on: January 20, 2017, 09:45:34 AM »

Wow, CMM, I love how you broke this down. Seeing this really picks it apart and shows me piece by piece what she's trying to do to me. She's already starting with my sister, whose already feeling emotionally exhausted. I've been explaining to her what I've been finding out here and other places online. When I first told her to look up NPD, she was like "that's our mom!"

Basenji, I'm a bigtime empath and what you're saying is so true for me. It pains me to see any living thing suffer so this is all really emotionally confusing right now. I wrote her a letter and can't bring myself to send it. I know it'll do no good, guess I'm just thinking I want to do it for me, but it will cause her to write back with the same old lines and blames. If I just leave her hanging without an explanation, I fear she will just hound me more. If I tell her why I'm avoiding her, in the back of my mind, she'll accept it. But I'm seeing more and more clearly and I don't think she would accept it no matter how I approached it.

Turkish, you made me laugh, thank you! Yes I think it IS something she pulled right off the internet, now that I think about it! Thank you for the advice and resources. I'm going to read them and see how I could apply them.

Sisterluv. Even with all the guilt I feel, I think NC might be best. I just CAN'T talk to her. I can't sleep and it's tearing me up, especially if I start entertaining the idea of writing to her. I keep in touch with my sister, the only one I trust to not go back to mom with what I've said. I'll keep asking her but I did talk to her this morning and it seems she's telling her, me and my brother different stories, but at least I'll be on the same page as Sis.

Thank you all!
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Basenji
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« Reply #24 on: January 20, 2017, 02:25:01 PM »

I'm a bigtime empath and what you're saying is so true for me. It pains me to see any living thing suffer so this is all really emotionally confusing right now. I wrote her a letter and can't bring myself to send it. I know it'll do no good, guess I'm just thinking I want to do it for me, but it will cause her to write back with the same old lines and blames. If I just leave her hanging without an explanation, I fear she will just hound me more. If I tell her why I'm avoiding her, in the back of my mind, she'll accept it. But I'm seeing more and more clearly and I don't think she would accept it no matter how I approached it.
 

Some thoughts and personal opinions on empathy:

I have also been giving such issues much thought. Not only do I have a BPD mother, my father (now deceased) was an undiagnosed subclinical sociopath (on the opposite end of the empath-sociopath spectrum). Once I deduced his personality type I came to realise that much of my vulnerability and enmeshment arose because I was seeing and experiencing the world though the lens of an empath. I had certain expectations of people which assumed that they experienced and reacted to the world in the same way as myself, whereas in my father's case he saw the world through the lens of restricted empathy - he simply could not comprehend or relate to the emotional realm and realities of others - he had an illustrious career but was a very detached parent. The concept extends to accrued personal values and how people behave to each other. Somebody with little empathy may regard empathy as a weakness, it leads to emotional responses which are seen as non functional and unnecessary.

My thought process was that as an empath you have a gift. You have insight, you can connect on a more intense level, you are well positioned to help others. That said, because you are vulnerable you have to be very wise about how your apply that gift. In some cases your empathy is wasted, or maybe undeserved, or simply not relevant. There are some lives you can touch if you give too much inappropiately, you get hurt, drained. You have to nurture and respect your empathy - share your special personal energy in situations where there is balance (the other person will return the "energy / effort" in some ways or another if not now but over time). One-sided scenarios need to be avoided.

It seems to me to that is a certain irony in the case of the BPD person. On the one hand they have a substantial selfishness through their disregard for the impact of their emotional / psychological game play and yet they feel the world through intense emotion. As an empath you can feel their pain, yet need to be very wise about how and when you apply your empathy.

In my own case, the concept of non attachment has been very useful, which I learned about through reading books on Zen. Use your gifts as an empath to enhance your capacity to sense and observe, but not necessarily to attach. Easier said than done!


On writing a letter:

I too would love to write a letter to my mother. I have had to challenge myself to be very clear about my objectives and outcomes to resist! My personal thoughts are that the BPD mind would reject my point of view, deny that any events cited as examples of her behaviour even occurred, and somehow twist the narrative to make me the protagonist and her the ever so martyred party.

I did write to my BPD mother 10 years ago after she came to stay with me here in Australia for two weeks. As usual, the gloss tarnished within hours. Her behaviours were as abusive and childish as ever. When she left I swore to myself that I would never have her in my house again. I didn't know that she was BPD, but obviously had an instinct that I needed to establish physical boundaries within the relationship. So I did write and tell just that - that her behaviours were unacceptable to me, non negotiable, and cited various examples of those behaviour. Her response was to side step the actual real issues and make the whole row about money - what did she owe me, etc. Now there are occasional grumpy asides about how she isn't allowed in my house. When I visit the UK I always stay with a friend or a hotel down the road from her place so I can control the contact time. i worked out that strategy before I knew she was BPD and was very relieved years later when reading up on how to manage a BPD relationship that being able to control the stay / go decision is a vital tool.

Now I want to write. Partly to set the record straight. But I know she won't be able to assimilate the points I'm trying to make. I want the satisfaction of proving I was right all along, but I know she is highly unlikely to yield to that viewpoint. I want her to be accountable for her abusive behaviours, but know she will likely simply deny that she ever did and said the things that she has done.

I'm tending to a position that I should put effort into myself - divert the time and energy to focus on my own well being. Writing a letter might be part of that process - a cathartic piece that is never sent.

I came to understand that the very fact that I wanted to write the letter indicated that I still being psychologically manipulated to continue engage in the BPD game play rather than rise above it!

Ironically and most crucially, I came to realise that writing the letter was just another attempt to prove myself to my mother! Yet I should not be looking for validation from my mother (it gives her the power straight back) - that should come from myself and trusted friends!

In the meantime, I have decided to minimise contact and respond immediately to any abusive comments as part of my boundary setting strategy. Before christmas my mother made some very undermining comments about how I never do anything for my friends (ironically a best friend from the UK was visiting on a first class ticket I had bought for her as a thank you for earlier favours - it guess that's the point, if mother was nice she would be the one flying first class for some hot weather in Australia rather than sitting alone in a cold UK winter!): I let that go on the basis "she is sick" only to internalise the negativity for several weeks. I now think that was wrong. The boundary needed to be defined in that moment and the comment challenged. But that event was another in a series of breakthrough crises! Silver lining!

My mother can only hound me, annoy me, etc., if I let her. If her words and actions are still affecting me, I have more work to do on myself! By allowing myself to be sucked in I have yet to finish unweaving the psychological enmeshment. To achieve that I may need to minimise or even break contact or a period of time. In the meantime, it's all about boundaries and self awareness!

I also coming to terms with the concept that my mother is simply not a good person - her abusive behaviours during my childhood were hypothetically criminally illegal under UK child protection legislation. On that basis, I have no guilt or shame about doing what I think is right to protect myself. I don't need to explain myself to her!

On a very positive, the more I see things for what they are, the less power she has. The more my empathy nurtures me (who deserves it) and less her (who doesn't), the better balance can be attained!

 
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cmm

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« Reply #25 on: January 20, 2017, 09:46:55 PM »

Ladybug, stay strong.  The beginning is hard because you're so unsure of yourself.  You've never set these types of boundaries before and that feels weird.  But, it is healthy and you are righting the wrongs you've committed against yourself over the years  in order to appease your mother.  This is actually how you should have been all along.

You are right, she'll never be pleased and always find a way to blame you.  I've found from personal experience with my NPD mother that ceasing  all contact worked.  You just REALLY have to be super firm with your boundaries.  I ignored many phone calls and texts over the years.  Block her number so you won't have to even see her correspondence.  If the sky is falling, your sister will tell you.

And BTW, using others against you is another tactic she'll deploy once you've cut her off completely so prepare yourself for isolation.  Also prepare your sister to be stuck in the middle and jerked around by NPD.

Eventually her behavior will die down.  For me, once the NPD realized I TRULY have a strong and solid sense of self-worth that doesn't involve her, she became scared of me.  It took almost 10 years to value myself, so the process is long but WORTH IT.  You are worth the time it will take to appreciate and respect yourself!

Sending you love 
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Ladybug123

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« Reply #26 on: February 11, 2017, 12:48:10 PM »

Well, I somehow got sucked back in. I can't even remember how. But she's acting the same darn way. She hasn't changed her attitude or approach at all. But all of this I expected so actually she's inadvertently validating me by proving me right.  Ha!

The latest is... .She called me yesterday morning (of course, 2 minutes after I started my work shift) and left a message asking me if I had her GPS. A week after I had it, I returned it. I called her back and told her that. She yelled at me "you haven't even been here since that hospital appointment!" I said "are you going to yell at me now?" and then stopped myself, remembering what I've been learning online, that they like getting us all flustered. I went back and looked at past correspondants and the proof I needed (isn't it something that we feel we have to find proof at least for ourselves so we don't believe we're the crazy ones?). In the meantime, my husband found the GPS but not ours and that's when I realized I returned the wrong one. I sent her a text message that said "I'm sorry, hubby found it." Later I Facebooked her and told her all that I remembered about that day, including that I obviously gave her mine instead and either mine got lost or stolen (it was in the unlocked jeep in her unlocked garage for a week when she was in the hospital). She came back with "When you texted me to tell me hubby found it (which cost me 25 cents)... .I didn't respond and decided to mail her the dang GPS and tape a quarter to it. Later that night, she Facebooked "will you be returning my GPS anytime soon?"

So she possibly lost mine or her lack of responsibility to lock her doors caused it to be stolen and she doesn't care. She wants hers. 

**She ALSO posted publicly on Facebook "Thank God I have friends to call my family especially since family is too busy with their own lives. It's nice to know who will be there for you when you're under the weather or just need to talk."

With every new thing she does, she lifts my guilt more and more. I love it. You know what mom? Keep it coming. You're actually doing me a favor! LOL!
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GirlWithCurl

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« Reply #27 on: February 11, 2017, 07:59:14 PM »

You are not over-reacting.  Do this.  You have three kids, right?  Imagine, try hard, just in your head doing or saying anything your mother has to you but YOU saying it to YOUR kids.  Makes your heart hurt, doesn't it?  There is a reason for that.  You are not over-reacting.

Today, she sent a friend to my house, who told me she was really sick and had to stay in the hospital for 4 days and almost died.

I'd wet her down with the garden hose she ever does something remotely like that again.  I'd soak her sorry rear-end but good.
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Grandmotherbear

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« Reply #28 on: February 11, 2017, 09:03:00 PM »

Ladybug, please think about your children observing the way your mother treats you and what message they are internalizing from this... .that it is okay and normal to be treated like this. Scary much? What kind of person do you think they will end up with? If they wind up with someone who treats them like your mom treats you, how will you feel?
Sorry, I know that's hitting below the belt. But my son just reconciled with his uBPD wife and he watched me dancing around my uBPD egg donor too many years and for my children's, husband's, and my own sakes I regret ever getting back in touch with her.
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Basenji
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« Reply #29 on: February 11, 2017, 10:10:05 PM »

Well, I somehow got sucked back in. I can't even remember how. But she's acting the same darn way. She hasn't changed her attitude or approach at all. But all of this I expected so actually she's inadvertently validating me by proving me right.  Ha!

The latest is... .She called me yesterday morning (of course, 2 minutes after I started my work shift) and left a message asking me if I had her GPS.
With every new thing she does, she lifts my guilt more and more. I love it. You know what mom? Keep it coming. You're actually doing me a favor! LOL!

Say 1000 times - I am not over-reacting and my mother is abusive!

Please may I propose the following observations and thought bubbles:

She isn't going to change. We have to deal with the borderline person as they are, not the idealised person we want them to be.

Yes, she is providing yet more evidence that your assumed diagnosis of borderline is correct.

That knowledge arms you with the power to handle the challenge with some certainty - the emotional rollercoaster, the psychological games plays, etc., are amazingly similar when you read our experiences on this website.

Crucially the liberation and freedom from the pain and suffering is right there ready for us to grasp! A "pathway" to personal resolution has already been walked along by 100,000s of others and so is well signposted.

Obviously, it's got nothing to do with the GPS! Whenever people raise a problem it pays to question "what's the real issue" here!

My mother rang (she is packing to move house) and wanted to know what to do with two books on fossils leftover from my teenage years. Suddenly after 30 years those books (which I had suggested to donate to the local school library 25 years ago) became a problem.

The implicit (the real issue) was that she wanted to play martyr by appearing to be such a reasonable caring mother given her concern over the fate of those books having been burdened by their welfare for 30 years, etc. When I suggested she mail them to a friend who works as a palaeontologist (basically a fossil nerd) there was the predictable great wailing about the effort that would take but that's ok she would the task despite the gross inconvenience because after all she is my mother, the mother that gave me the perfect childhood, blah blah blah. Next time I'll tell her "that item has no value to me" to disempower the line of attack.

The whole gambit was a hook to suck me back into the dark cycle - but time to say NO... .I'm not going there!

Yep - recognising the pattern can increase your confidence... .it's NOT YOU who is the problem here!

The borderline is abusive and toxic (despite seeming normal and engaging at times to suit them). Recognising that I would never let my particular mother back in my house let alone near a significant other (or children if I had them) - that point of view may or may not be relevant for others.

And yes - since she repeats the pattern of behaviour you can practise your enlightened responses (or simply recognise a need to go NC if you feel that is best with no shame or guilt) and turn the whole situation to your advantage.  Doing the right thing (click to insert in post)


Now the danger is when we drop our guard / awareness: on the one hand the borderline being really nice (which they can be) sucks you in ("she isn't as bad as I thought - at last she's the mom I always wanted" and on the other hand by behaving manipulatively ("you never returned my GPS / picked up your childhood books" she entraps you with guilt and your childhood responses, whilst all the time slagging you off behind your back! Actually, nasty either way.

Luckily, wisdom born of insight, support, and self care will always prevail... .
 



 
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