Help? Why do I want to talk to my first ex now about this most recent breakup?

[Family Court Strategies: When Your Partner Has BPD OR NPD Traits.]

I, for some reason and it's probably ridiculous, feel that I need to connect with my first real love I broke up with over twenty years ago to commiserate on my most recent breakup with a BPD?   Except for telling my first love early last year about my new relationship (the BPD one I just exited) I've never shared anything of any consequence with him for decades.  I haven't even seen him in over twenty years.  

I loved him deeply (the first one) and after 6 years it ended when I realized he was a narcissist and the feelings in the relationship were not balanced.  I am beginning to see that I may have a fatal attraction to the narcissist.

Is it wrong to discuss my situation with a former who I know is a narcissist but I do feel that after all these years now appreciates what we had together decades ago? (I don't believe my first was BPD, just narcissistic.)  I don't know what I'm looking for from him.  Maybe love and understanding from someone I loved so much in the past just I did with this BPD hoping to find from my first that yes, indeed there narcissists are capable of having real feelings.

All this reading makes me thing that true BPD's are really in serious trouble in life and rarely find the wherewithal to get the treatment they need to manage their condition and hence, their relationships.

Any thoughts on this subject of wanting to reach back so far for support?  I confused on this one!        

[Germanic]

I, for some reason and it's probably ridiculous, feel that I need to connect with my first real love I broke up with over twenty years ago to commiserate on my most recent breakup with a BPD?   Except for telling my first love early last year about my new relationship (the BPD one I just exited) I've never shared anything of any consequence with him for decades.  I haven't even seen him in over twenty years.  

I loved him deeply (the first one) and after 6 years it ended when I realized he was a narcissist and the feelings in the relationship were not balanced.  I am beginning to see that I may have a fatal attraction to the narcissist.

Is it wrong to discuss my situation with a former who I know is a narcissist but I do feel that after all these years now appreciates what we had together decades ago? (I don't believe my first was BPD, just narcissistic.)  I don't know what I'm looking for from him.  Maybe love and understanding from someone I loved so much in the past just I did with this BPD hoping to find from my first that yes, indeed there narcissists are capable of having real feelings.

All this reading makes me thing that true BPD's are really in serious trouble in life and rarely find the wherewithal to get the treatment they need to manage their condition and hence, their relationships.

Any thoughts on this subject of wanting to reach back so far for support?  I confused on this one!        

[Grey Kitty]

I think this is an excellent time to reach out to a wise, trustworthy friend for support. I know I had to do quite a bit of it during my breakup, and I was blessed to have an entire team of friends I could call on, two especially that were godsends.

Let me ask you--of all your friends and family members, even perhaps a few looser acquaintances or coworkers you have a bit of personal connection with, who seems like the best choice?

One of my absolute ROCKS was somebody that I didn't know particularly well at the time; in fact, she knew my ex a bit better than she knew me. When I called her, I don't think I could say exactly why I picked her, even. All I know is that it was one of the best choices I could have made. I guess if it hadn't have been, I probably wouldn't have gone as deep with her, and would have called somebody else more instead. Dunno.

I wouldn't expect a narcissistic ex that I haven't shared anything significant with for decades to be the best, safest, most trustworthy person to go to for support. It just doesn't sound like good odds to me! But he might be better than nobody. Hard to say from here... .

Is there somebody better to try? Maybe half a dozen better choices? If so, I suggest you start there!

[Germanic]

Thanks, Grey Kitty, for your advice!  I do have some very wonderful close friends who have been incredible to me not only in the last month after this breakup but also during the past year since the inception of the BPD relationship which included the breakup with my former.  It's actually these friends who were watching my back for the red flags as I was waltzing back and forth to Europe this past year and with the BPD doing the same come to the US.

Since I did not share all the details with these close friends as things progressed over the year (somehow you do not want to disparage the very thing you love and are trying to figure out) it was after the final moments when I shared with the two closest friends that I was about to 'escape' that they really kicked in with their emotional support and advice.

I agree, an ex I haven't seen or shared with in over twenty years is probably not the best base or trusted of support for me right.  I just had some twisted idea in my mind that I wanted to reach out to him.  When I told him about the new relationship with the European, he was happy and excited for me and very supportive.  I had never in over two decades shared anything with him about any successors.  I guess I feel a need to level the field with him and let him know of my situation.  I know my former has never been successful in a permanent personal relationship.  He is a funny, charming and super popular and handsome guy.  I guess in times like these we get all kinds of twisted ideas and just need help in sorting out our way forward.

I really appreciate the input and all the support I have received from the site!       

[Grey Kitty]

Yay for that kind of friend!

I've always been a teeny bit jealous of those people who have exes who they know and can trust as deep friends with serious history behind them and a ton of water under the bridge.

Perhaps your ex from 20 years ago has potential as some kind of friend today. Just the same, I'd suggest you start re-building a friendship with somewhat safer topics than your current relationship problems. And if you are able to build up some serious trust, maybe that will seem like a better idea later.

... .and if you do try to reach out more to your old ex, talk to your trusted friends about it. 

[michel71]

I understand reaching out to an ex. It is for validation that you weren't that bad. That even though it did not work out with that person you are not as bad as your current ex says you are. And that is what you want to hear from somebody who used to love you and knew you intimately. It is completely different validation than from a friend. Even a best friend.

I talked to my ex about my relationship too. Got the validation I needed thank God and she made me think about a few things I brought to the relationship too.

I am lucky to have several close friends and confidants. Yet I still wanted to hear from my ex. What was weird was my realization that as bad as it was with my ex it was in no way as bad as it is with my uBPDw. That kinda screwed with my head a bit because I began to think that breaking up with my ex was a mistake. But no, it wasn't. It just seems so much better because the one with my uBPDw is so much WORSE.

[Kelli Cornett]

WOW. No darling, NPD's DO NOT have feelings. They are close to being sociopathic.


BPD's have feelings and empathy but extreme emotional dysregulation.

[Germanic]

letitbe223,

Maybe I got a little 'overboard' expecting that a narcissistic ex from over 20 years ago who I don't think is a BPD, but it has been so long that I may have just lost touch with the details, could empathize with me over my current breakup with a BPD.

michel71's response was more in tune to what I was apparently hoping to ascertain from someone who is narcissistic but was intensely involved with me for 6 years from over 20 years ago maybe able to provide me some viable perspective.  I think if I take their words with a "grain of salt" and expecting it may not be too viable of a validation after all these years, I would be curious to see what he would allow.  He wasn't stupid and we've had minimal contact over the years but only about familial deaths and things like that; nothing about our personal lives whatsoever.

Still confused over my own feelings and attempts to sort them out.     

[Germanic]

I wanted to report that I just got off a Skype call with my ex from over 20 years ago of which I agonized over doing today.  It is the first time in all those years that I have heard his voice and also was able to see him while speaking with him over the phone. (He lives in South America.)  Modern technology!

It was a very good experience and validating as michel77 had suggested it might be. Thank you, michel77!  My former ex and I were quite young at the time and no doubt he was then and possibly now still is narcissistic but what came from our conversation is that my former ex was very concerned about me with regarding the fallout from the relationship with the BPD.

It blew me away that my former ex acknowledge during the call with great appreciation all that I had done for him when we were together years ago and was pleased to now be in a position to help me even if was nothing more than just spend some time talking with me regarding my recent relationship experience.

I don't think such an endeavor to reach out to a former relationship is always going to be beneficial for everyone's situation but in my circumstance, next to the BPD, the former ex is the only other person I gave my heart to completely.  (Knowing that the former is narcissistic and then years later I then become seduced by a BPD may speak volumes to where my head is at.  I think I need to identify those issues and work through them.)  The difference is that my former ex never did the bad things to me as the BPD did.  He was never an bad acting person.  I felt that talking to the only other person on the planet which I had loved as much as I loved the BPD might help me process what I was feeling over my treatment by the dysfunctional relationship.

I respect and appreciate all the responses and support I received from my posting in this vain.  They really helped me in my decision in how to approach this matter and clarify even if I should make the attempt to connect with my past.  Fortunately for me, it turned out well.  Another shout out to the BPD family!  Hopefully somehow my words of experience will help someone else who might be hurting and confused. Thank you!  I know I'm on the path to healing.             

[Grey Kitty]

Yeah, there is something really special about somebody who knows you that well. 

I'm glad you had a good experience, and I hope you are able to build a new kind of friendship with this ex.

[bestintentions]

Germanic,

I'm in a similar boat and took a chance by texting a number I found for someone I had amazing chemistry with but never a full-fledged r/s before I got married.  This goes back more than 25 years.  She responded just as I thought she would - in an amazingly kind and helpful way.  I wanted to know if she was disordered too... .if that's what I've always gravitated toward.  She's across the Atlantic now so we're trying to work out a video chat of some kind in the future, so I'm excited for that.  It will be so interesting to find out how she got where she is today and I think she feels the same about me. 

Since my BPDxw left, I've been fighting the urge to find outside validation as I know that leads to trouble but in this case it seemed healthy.  It may turn out to be something better than I planned for but it's good to know someone outside our main circles cares!

bi

[Grey Kitty]

With somebody across an ocean, there's a bit of a limit on what kind of relationship you can have. I've got long distance friendships that work just by phone/text as friendships. There are others that pick up right where they left off when we are together, but slow down or go into hibernation with the distance.

I've also been in long distance romantic relationships, and that is a LOT harder to make work well.

There is also something dangerously seductive in an LDR for any of us who are here... .

We got into a r/s with a pwBPD. This disordered person couldn't really engage fully in an intimate r/s with us. And we chose that. Most of us claim that we didn't want that, but, we probably wouldn't have gotten sucked in if we didn't have some kind of issues around intimacy, which drove us to choose a partner who was "safe"--one who would blow up any chance of deep intimacy. Allowing us to believe we wanted it, that it wasn't our fault... .but ultimately we chose to hide from true intimacy.

An LDR has a its own limit on intimacy. It will keep you "safe" from the full connection in other ways. And I'd add that if you find somebody who wants to get into an LDR with you, there is all too good a chance that they are welcoming the distance for similar reasons.

Think a few extra times before you let this kind of long distance friendship shift into a romantic one.

[bestintentions]

Grey Kitty,

I can personally attest to your theory.  My BPDxw's next attachment lives over an hour away.  I know for a fact that she was/is still in contact with the orbiters she picked up after leaving me and he was clueless about it.  This distance will allow for her to have someone at her beck and call yet not feel the engulfment.  A perfect BPD scenario?

bi

[Germanic]

bestintentions,

Reflecting back on my phone conversation with my ex from years ago, I realize he shared something with me last night that proved to be he was not a BPD or a user.

After processing the phone call today, I realize that my effort to contact him was rewarded with the benefit I had hoped for, validation that I am not the 'bad' person.  The concern my former showed for me about my breakup with the BPD was genuine and amazing.  He knew nothing about the BPD issue yet he was in tune to the fact that I needed to "close the circuit" and move forward ASAP.

I realize every situation is unique and I feel in some circumstances, exes from way back which we were so committed to with love and caring may possibly after years, as mine did, finally realize the importance and magnitude of what we had shared.  Sometimes we don't know what we have until we've lost it.  We can only hope our BPDexs arrive at that point but from what I understand, I don't think they ever will.

Thank you for your response.

Germanic     

[Germanic]

Grey Kitty,

With all due respect, I don't agree with your 'assessment' on long distant relationships.  There are a lot of factors to consider when applying the broad brush to long distance relationships.  First, the term, "long distant relationships," is relative. 

You possibly not having read my threads from earlier postings, in retrospect, it is remarkable how much time my BPDex and I actually spent together over the past year in spite the distance.  We were together most every month with a six week period being probably by far, probably the longest time we spent apart.  Be both had the resources to make the trips back and forth.  Only our professions kept us apart and if we actually lived together permanently in the same location, due to the nature of our work, we'd have still been apart during those periods of absence.

In my situation, I believe the relationship only lasted as long as it did only because of the long distance and the separation because of professional responsibilities.  Our friends on both sides of 'the pond' in the beginning said the greatest obstacle they saw in our relationship was the distance.  In retrospect, I believe the distance is what extended it.  I believe if we had been in a normal circumstance living together on a day to day basis, we probably would not have made it to six months.

I believe it is a bit presumptuous to judge that 'long distance relationships' as the type where there is a "limit on what kind of relationship" there could be and a determination where the nonBPD has "some kind of issues around intimacy which drove us to a partner who was "safe"."  I want to be clear, I was NOT attracted to my partner because he lived 7000 miles away and because it was "safe."  If it had been my preference, he would have just lived around the corner from me in the US when I met him, but he didn't.  It just so happened I was attracted by someone whose intellect and cultural style appealed to me and in this case, it happened to be in the form of a German national.  I want to add that before this individual came into my life, I had never had any inclinations towards partnering with a German in spite of the fact that I visited that country annually for the past 15 years.   

My two major relationships in my lifetime (the two individuals I loved the most) both started as international LDRs.  I don't believe that says anything about any "issues of intimacy" which I might have. 

I'm beginning to think some of this arm chair psychoanalysis might be carried out a bit too far.  It may not be the norm, but a lot of very successful relationships are conducted long distance whether it be bicoastal as we often see with partnered professionals who commute between New York and LA or San Francisco or those who commute internationally.  I don't think a one hour separation between partner's domiciles qualifies in today's world as "long distance."

My BPDex and I had the resources to travel back and forth as we desired.  Our only obstacle was our professional schedules which prevented us from being on the same continent continually but rest assured, we were in contact by phone and electronically multiple times daily in the interim. 

I believe it may be time for me to start making a departure from such unqualified scrutiny.  This website has been invaluable to me over the past number of days.  I suggest that that a little more discretion be used prior to postings about becoming a little too judgmental or improperly jumping to conclusions.

Respectfully,

Germanic

                 

[Grey Kitty]

Germanic, I apologize if what I wrote came off as an accusation; I did not mean it that way.

That said, there are structural limits to intimacy in an LDR, and for a pwBPD who cannot handle intimacy, this makes the relationship longer lasting or more stable than it would otherwise be. You said it right here:

In my situation, I believe the relationship only lasted as long as it did only because of the long distance and the separation because of professional responsibilities.  Our friends on both sides of 'the pond' in the beginning said the greatest obstacle they saw in our relationship was the distance.  In retrospect, I believe the distance is what extended it.  I believe if we had been in a normal circumstance living together on a day to day basis, we probably would not have made it to six months.

I posted to caution you (and others) about this quality of LDRs. And that it doesn't seem like a good idea on the upswing from a BPD breakup, if you are trying to decide whether to start, or whom to start with. That said, once you connect with somebody/fall for somebody, you have to deal with the distance you have, and make the best of it.

Back to you--I know you weren't going out looking for relationships that limit intimacy like this.

I know of a couple members here who did, and since have been able to see that they were choosing this, or accepting this in their relationship(s). That it somehow served them or suited them. Despite the fact that they HATED the experience of the person pushing them and rejecting/sabotaging intimacy, and found it heartbreaking to live through it.

My intention was never to accuse you of this or anything else. I hope you can think about it, ask yourself what is true, and come up with your own answer. Your answer matters. Not mine.

[michel71]

I think Grey Kitty has some valuable points. I too spent a lot of time with my UBPDw ( it was an LDR) prior to tying the knot. Traveling 5000 miles each way was no easy task, not on the wallet nor the body! I thought I knew her well. I ignored most of the red flags and attributed them to us living so far away from each other. It was the distance that became the vail and the best excuse for what I would have seen clearly OTHERWISE, like on the day to day. The intensity of the relationship was magnified by the wonderful reunions after spending time apart. We made an effort for the daily Skype calls and sent lots of emails/texts. When we visited we tried to cram in all the good times and that created intensity as well. We did argue... .a lot... .but that was also chocked up to the stress of the distance. Bottom line is the distance became the excuse for everything. If we lived 20 miles apart we wouldn't have had that excuse.

So, LDR's have the potential to mask a lot. Even if there is a frequency in visiting and staying for long periods. I did that. I was shortsighted. LDR's can be disastrous, more so than other relationships, especially if they result in marriages that go south ( like mine). The expense it took to get her over here, not to mention to maintain the relationship while apart, all contributed to a very LOADED relationship bond.  There was a lot to lose and I lost tons of time and money in this investment for our future.

I wouldn't do it again or recommend LDRs to others unless they they like to travel a lot and don't plan on getting married. I also would caution others not to  financially support their LDR partner. Ideally a LDR partner should be able to immigrate on a visa other than a fiancee or spousal visa just to play it safe, if the couple wants to eventually settle in one place, just to make sure it is going to work out.

I am going to write a book on international LDRs and the dangers, of which there are many. There is also this notion that dating somebody from another country is exciting and sexy because they are so different. As an American I feel that this is the greatest country in the world and anybody would be blessed living here. That is not necessarily the case when you "pluck" somebody from their country who actually loved their country and wasn't looking for the American dream. The transition was a shock for my uBPDw and we both underestimated how difficult it would be. For that, BPD or not, I feel terrible. Now she likes it but it was so hard at the beginning.

[Germanic]

Grey Kitty,

Your gracious apology is accepted.  Thank you.

Germanic