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Author Topic: I don't think I can make it after all.  (Read 491 times)
SamwizeGamgee
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« on: January 12, 2017, 01:35:50 PM »

First off, I must thank the members who read, ponder, and reply – to everyone might I add!  I must thank the whole  bpdfamily staff and regular helpers.  The senior class is so positive, purposeful, wise, and supportive.  I love coming here for the teaching, wisdom, and optimism. I thank you all.

I have dragged myself up from the pits of despair in the last two years.  I tried first to save myself.  I looked seriously and planned for divorce.  I worked on me, and got help.  I got so much better that I changed things and people around me.  I realized at that point that I was part of the problem, and I switched into a stage I think was one of acceptance - and numbness. 

It looked as though I could hang-tough and stay married in spite of my waif / hermit type uBPD wife.  Who, to others, appears to be an amazing person.  In fact, my stories are not as bad as many on here.  I think I should be able to cope and carry on.  And, since I've done so much work on me, I have made life much better for her too, and she hasn't gone really psycho angry in a long time.  Things feel a little better at home and I've now solidified an awesome relationship as a dad to my five kids.  Not perfect, but, I've sorted myself out enough to be a great dad in training. 

All that said, I think my idea that I can continue on, and maybe even get better still, is cracking at the seams.  I may have waited too long to get help and improvement.  I've been married for 19 years.  There never was a good time that I would like to go back to.  I don't love her, rather I fear her on a low down, deep level.  I can't stomach reading the Staying board very long.  I probably should, but, the prospect of going on and on in this is too much for me to fathom.  Yet, out of duty, obligation, and fear of waking a beast who will emotionally harm the kids by starting a divorce process, I stay coldly married.

I just don't think I can hold on.  I really thought I was onto something that I could manage, but, the cycles in our relationship seem to go from cordiality and infrequent intimacy, to isolation and passive aggression. 

I feel disappointed that I am thinking about quitting my marriage.  I feel scared for what may lie ahead.  I can't even really articulate solid reasons for divorce that most people would understand.  But, I am facing the feelings that I just can't go on like this.  Maybe this is  good thing to push me one way or another.  I was stuck and content for a long while.

Mods: I posted this in the conflicted board rather than divorce board because internal conflict and deciding sums up my feelings right now.  Please move the post if it's better elsewhere. Thanks.
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« Reply #1 on: January 12, 2017, 04:45:41 PM »

Sam:  I don't have any advice for you, but I just wanted to say I'm rooting for you, whatever you decide.  As someone who has been married to an invisible waif/hermit (75/25) uBPDw for 19 years myself, some of your statements really struck a chord with me:

I got so much better that I changed things and people around me.  I realized at that point that I was part of the problem, and I switched into a stage I think was one of acceptance - and numbness.  

Yep, I started this process in 2011 after finally learning about BPD and having that "aha" moment.

since I've done so much work on me, I have made life much better for her too, and she hasn't gone really psycho angry in a long time.  Things feel a little better at home and I've now solidified an awesome relationship as a dad to my five kids.

(just 2 kids in my case)

the cycles in our relationship seem to go from cordiality and infrequent intimacy, to isolation and passive aggression.

What a great description of the cycle.  My uBPDw just started the isolation phase of the cycle.  Seems like the vast majority of her behavior and the cycle is driven by how she is feeling about herself... .alternately accepting herself for a time and loathing herself for a time.  My behavior is pretty much uniformly exemplary, so it's clear that the cycle has essentially nothing to do with me.  :)uring the self-loathing periods, she withdraws and looks for ways to pick fights and blame me for the way she is feeling.

I can't even really articulate solid reasons for divorce that most people would understand.

I'm staying and not divorcing unless my uBPDw attempts suicide or cheats, but I completely understand what you mean.  My uBPDw's problems are so well hidden that most people I know (family included for the most part) would not understand these problems and would not likely believe them even if I tried to explain.
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Lucky Jim
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« Reply #2 on: January 12, 2017, 05:13:47 PM »

Hey Samwize, Your post was extremely honest and moving.  You've done an incredible job of hanging in there for your kids in an untenable situation, so give yourself credit.  :)on't beat yourself up!  Like you, I thought I could crack the BPD Code and stay for the benefit of my kids.  I used to be on the Saving Board.  I believed that my children deserved having me around as a stabilizing influence to balance out the craziness, rage and drama of my BPDxW.  

Though my intentions may have been noble, I nearly destroyed myself in the process.  I depleted my reserves until I had nothing left in the tank.  Finally, a family member and two kind friends conducted an intervention.  At that point, I lacked the strength to leave.  I sense that you may be getting to that point from what you have posted, which worries me.  The intervention was humiliating but helped me to recognize what I was unwilling to admit to myself: that I had to leave my marriage in order to save myself.  The alternative was not pretty, believe me.

I took my marriage vows seriously and am a loyal person.  Nevertheless, I have since questioned whether my loyalty was misplaced with a person so unkind and abusive to me.

I admire your courage to face the reality of your situation and am happy to help as you find your path through the BPD Forest.

LuckyJim

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Lucky Jim
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« Reply #3 on: January 13, 2017, 10:11:00 AM »

Hello again, Samwize, Of course you're anxious about what lies ahead.  Most on the Conflicted Board have a fear of the unknown, with good reason.  Yet don't overlook the possibility that you might be a lot happier if you decide to leave.  It sounds like you are leading a life of quiet desperation, as Thoreau put it.

Excerpt
I don't love her, rather I fear her on a low down, deep level. . . .   Yet, out of duty, obligation, and fear of waking a beast who will emotionally harm the kids by starting a divorce process, I stay coldly married.

I can relate to that fear, because after my love for my BPDxW died, I shared the same worry about pulling on the tail of a tiger.  I was paralyzed by fear, which sounds similar to your current frame of mind.

Having come out the other side, I like to think that I demonstrated to my kids that change is possible in life, and that one need not remain in an abusive situation.  Whether they will one day they absorb and appreciate my example is uncertain; for now, they are teenagers in the thrall of my BPDxW and presumably live under the same fear that I once did.

Dante wrote: "In the middle of life I found myself lost in a dark wood, with no clear path out."  Perhaps you can relate to this quotation?  Only you can find the right path for you, though I would suggest that it starts with returning to your core and living again with authenticity.

LuckyJim

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    A life spent making mistakes is not only more honorable, but more useful than a life spent doing nothing.
George Bernard Shaw
SamwizeGamgee
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« Reply #4 on: January 13, 2017, 12:52:53 PM »

Thank you so much for the support.  Your words are wise and spot-on.
I came up with a visualization of how I was feeling.  Like the depiction of a shoulder angel (devil on one shoulder, angel on the other) I felt like I had to have a lawyer on one shoulder and a therapist on the other to make sure I could vet every single thing I said to my wife.  Add to that a chain around my neck holding each of these self-help and BPD and parenting books that I've read in order to quickly determine what was going on.  I was dragged down like Jacob Marley's ghost with the chains I forged in this life.  And I was the victim!

I am finding though, that I'm being much more honest now.  Much to the agony of my wife.
We had a conversation last night during which I really didn't care if I kept up her delusions and kept her safe from her own lack of self esteem and demons.  She pointed out how I didn't validate and show empathy recently.  I said yup, I have emotional leakage after bottling it up for so many years.  I have been pushing down the anger and hurt for so long now I feel like I'm escaping with my life.  I'll ask for forgiveness later if I make out.
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« Reply #5 on: January 13, 2017, 04:06:26 PM »

Sam

My friend you are describing me with your story. Me before my divorce. Then after a series of nights where I was going to bed crying and feeling like something in me is going to die if I dont leave I thought one single thought and after that I knew what I needed to do. The thought was expressed in a low voice by my higher self or power 'you live only once'. See our time is finite. Damn it it is a tragedy to lead a life of quiet desperation and then leave this world never to come back. Damn it it is a tragedy to live only once and then leave forever without tasting that sweet feeling that comes when when you live with a person who loves you, cares about you, understands you, supports you and lets you be who you really are. Oh what a joy it is to not need to think about every word you say to stop walking on eggshells!

And my friend the best thing is - you still have time... .
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Fond memories, fella.


« Reply #6 on: January 14, 2017, 03:58:39 AM »

Hi Sam,

Your message really struck a chord.  I've been married to my undiagnosed BPD wife for 24 years, with three kids.  Someone tipped me off to read "I Hate You Don't Leave Me" four years ago, but I'm a little slow on the uptake and it wasn't until the last year or so that I hit a new level in my understanding and determination to change things.  It has sometimes taken guts of steel to hang on for so long, but when the kids were young I was scared to lose them and put up with agony to be with them full time.  Now that the kids are older, I'm more confident in my ability to have a relationship with them even if I am not with them full time.  My wife can be amazing, as a person to be with and as a parent, but I'm at the exhaustion point with periodic insane drama and emotional and physical intimidation.  I still have no idea whether I'll stay or go.  The thing that's changed lately is that I've begun to visualize exactly what my exit plan would be -- renting a house in the same neighborhood, going for 50% custody, and prioritizing fatherhood over career for the remaining time my younger two kids have at home.  I have made a spare set of car keys, hidden extra debit cards, a checkbook, etc. to be ready to function even if she is trying to sabotage.  I realized I need to start limit setting, and have picked just a couple of narrow areas to start (physical abuse, sleep deprivation, and threats while I'm at work).  Strangely, being prepared and willing to walk if need be calms me and makes me feel even better able to handle the explosions using the techniques I've learned to manage conflict.  I guess the main points I'm trying to say are:

1.  Don't kick yourself for staying so long.  It took immense strength, and gave you more opportunity to grow and spend time with the kids.
2.  Consider how your options and outlook may change as the kids get older.
3.  Think about where you want to be in 20 years.  What kind of relationship do you want to be in for the second half of your life?

I'm right at the same inflection point you are, so can offer a lot of empathy but not any advice from journeying farther than you.  I don't have any illusions that divorce would be easy, and understand that my wife in many good ways would be very hard to match.  I am prepared to walk, and wonder whether if I am skillful with compassion and strength I might be able to get to where I need to go with my wife.  Yet when I parent the kids alone when she is away, or contemplate being free of the episodic abuse, I feel my spirit lighten.  Time will tell.

Good luck!
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SamwizeGamgee
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« Reply #7 on: January 14, 2017, 06:38:45 AM »

Thank you so much.  You bring up some very positive points.  I wonder sometimes what's wrong with me because other people don't stay in the undecided, or too cautious to move, category as long as I seem to be.
Your point about the future brings to mind a way I'm learning from my subconscious - I simply feel better when my wife is away.
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« Reply #8 on: January 14, 2017, 11:41:13 AM »

Hey SamwizeGamgee,

I'm with LuckyJim -- don't beat yourself up. Going forward, no matter what you decide, be gentle with yourself. Take all the time you need.

It's a process and a big decision, why not befriend yourself while you go through this. Someone needs to be kind to you, might as well be you  Smiling (click to insert in post)

If it makes a difference my therapist thinks quiet/waif/hermit borderlines are some of the most difficult clients she has worked with. I was married to man who was a paranoid, alcoholic, psychotic, OCD, manic, BPD/narcissistic type and now have SO's quiet borderline D19 in my life. D19 is, in so many ways, the more challenging relationship. The roller coaster is equally intense but it's done much more secretly.

You may be waiting for the exact amount of strength you need to make a decision one way or another. All this focus on you is strengthening you, or a part of you that has been long suppressed, maybe even new parts are emerging need time to gain just enough strength to make such a big decision.

 

LnL
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« Reply #9 on: January 14, 2017, 12:16:45 PM »

I was struck by this part of your reasons/conclusions:
I don't love her, rather I fear her on a low down, deep level. . . .   Yet, out of duty, obligation, and fear of waking a beast who will emotionally harm the kids by starting a divorce process, I stay coldly married.

You've obviously come a LONG way, learned a lot, and have dealt with a lot. But the key word in here to me is fear. You may have more of your own stuff to address here.

There is some level of fear, or at least respect for the destructive power she can wield toward you and your children. Unless she makes unlikely and radical changes, that will never go away.

I think my most important lesson here was that when I let my fears drive my actions, I wasn't happy with my choices. And when I chose my actions based on my values and core beliefs instead, I was much happier.

This sounds like the result of many small steps in that direction:
We had a conversation last night during which I really didn't care if I kept up her delusions and kept her safe from her own lack of self esteem and demons.  She pointed out how I didn't validate and show empathy recently.  I said yup, I have emotional leakage after bottling it up for so many years.  I have been pushing down the anger and hurt for so long now I feel like I'm escaping with my life.  I'll ask for forgiveness later if I make out.

Do you have farther to go working on your fears of your wife?

Whether you choose to stay or choose to leave, either way, I'm sure you will do it far better if it isn't driven by your fears!
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SamwizeGamgee
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« Reply #10 on: January 15, 2017, 06:45:52 AM »

Thanks for seeing that.  I'll think more about how I mean the word fear.  I know years ago I would actually have anxiety starting when I walk through the front door.  Now, it might be more wisened, like an electrician fears what electricity can do, so uses proper protocol and insulated tools. 

I'm also seeing that she's going to be who she's going to be.  With or without me.  I was a little worried about my reaction I described in the second quote you used, in which I was aware of not caring if I validated her irrational behavior.  Since it flies against the general advice here.  But, I think I had to harden up against her version of things.
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SamwizeGamgee
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« Reply #11 on: January 15, 2017, 11:32:24 AM »

@livednlearned - yes. I'm still thinking about your comments.  I can attest that for me it has been agonizing being with a waif type wife.  I don't envy anyone with a violent rager, or cheater, but, if my wife would do something like that, it would be a done deal.  Yet, she stays just below what I can solidly say is the reason to go.  Hit me or throw a dish and I can point at that ,and that's all I need.  But, the silent burning, isolation, undermining, projection, guilt, and so forth. It just doesn't get to the threshold.  Maddening.

I am making strides in self care. Like you say, someone has to be good to me!
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« Reply #12 on: January 15, 2017, 06:51:48 PM »

I was a little worried about my reaction I described in the second quote you used, in which I was aware of not caring if I validated her irrational behavior.  Since it flies against the general advice here.  But, I think I had to harden up against her version of things.

We are all learning this as we go along here. There are basic lessons, and more subtle ones.

Validate your partner is a basic lesson, and you could say this is against it. However there is more to that lesson:

Don't validate the invalid. Her irrational behavior and distorted reality isn't valid. Not a good target for validation.

It has been my experience that validation only works when I'm in a good mental state. If I'm pissed, I don't come across as sincere, and it doesn't work at all. It would have been better not to try. At those times, I've learned the best I can do is shut up and not say something invalidating. Or not say anything ELSE invalidating, anyways!

If I'm feeling grounded and centered and caring about my partner, I can try to validate the feelings behind whatever invalid stuff she was spouting. The feelings themselves ARE valid, even if the conclusions and actions aren't. If the feelings aren't immediately obvious, I can ask a question about them. "You seem upset?" Asking about feelings is validating too, at least if you avoid probing or interrogation.
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DaddyBear77
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« Reply #13 on: January 16, 2017, 06:11:49 AM »

Samwize,

I came online just now to post nearly the same message you posted, and I still may, but I wanted to tell you that I can empathize with you in many many ways. I only have one child and have been married for 17 years, but as much as I wanted to stay I am really not sure I could possibly create a life for myself with all the things I want and value, while still staying with a pwBPD who has absolutely no clue that she's causing so much drama and upheaval.

I feel for you and I hope we can all help each other here.

DB
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« Reply #14 on: January 16, 2017, 07:14:35 AM »

One thing that could help you would be to inventory your boundaries and evaluate whether they are congruous with your values and whether your values are in agreement or mesh with each other.  Discrepancies between boundaries and values and discrepancies in boundary enforcement will likely cause anxieties and other internal conflicts.  You might need to alter one or the other or both.  While I care about others and about what is right and wrong, for me it meant putting as a primary value my own welfare first, my own emotional state paramount, my own gas tank filled as number one.  That is before my kids, marriage, family, wife, work because without that I can’t be effective towards any of these or much else either and I also forfeit my life and happiness.  I then built boundaries out of this value, changing them and how I enforce them however I needed, so I can better live out my values.   This includes boundaries for ending the marriage and they are subject to change according to how I feel I am meeting my values. 

I definitely look at boundaries as much, much more important than validation and have set up boundaries around what and how I validate with are consistent with what I value.  I look at boundaries as transcending the relationship and encompassing all of life.
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« Reply #15 on: January 16, 2017, 08:14:22 AM »

I definitely look at boundaries as much, much more important than validation and have set up boundaries around what and how I validate with are consistent with what I value.  I look at boundaries as transcending the relationship and encompassing all of life.

This is excellent! I hadn't thought of it like this, but it describes what I've learned, too.

Being able to genuinely validate someone else's feelings is difficult if not impossible if important boundaries and values are routinely violated.

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