Object Constancy and Splitting

[How to communicate after a contentious divorce...]

I’m not sure if this should be on detaching or psychology of BPD, but here goes.

pwBPD are said to have problems with object constancy. It’s my understanding that they view the behaviour of people in their lives as if there were no previous context so there’s no sense of consistency or continuity. Meaning that they would find it difficult experiencing others as a loving presence in their mind when we’re out of sight.

This seems to be related to splitting where they view others as all good or all bad, no grey, implying that they do not realistically perceive others. How can they if they only see in black and white. Do they carry on splitting us when we’ve broken up with them? Or permanently paint us black or white?

My ex seems to have settled on painting me white to the extreme when we said goodbye last month. He went from saying I was a “liar, and a cheat always casting around for other men", among other charming things, to saying I was “beautiful, kind and immensely intelligent”. (This actually hurt more because why would you want to leave someone with those traits). It was over the top and right at the other end of the scale. All in the space of a couple hours which is no longer surprising.

He also seems to have resorted to magical thinking in that it’s now his belief that fate had intervened to split us up. Not his behaviour, not mine, but fate. I understand this as a protective defense.

My question is will it stay that way? Will he define me by how our last interaction went or will he likely split me black again or even completely forget me?

[Larmoyant]

I’m not sure if this should be on detaching or psychology of BPD, but here goes.

pwBPD are said to have problems with object constancy. It’s my understanding that they view the behaviour of people in their lives as if there were no previous context so there’s no sense of consistency or continuity. Meaning that they would find it difficult experiencing others as a loving presence in their mind when we’re out of sight.

This seems to be related to splitting where they view others as all good or all bad, no grey, implying that they do not realistically perceive others. How can they if they only see in black and white. Do they carry on splitting us when we’ve broken up with them? Or permanently paint us black or white?

My ex seems to have settled on painting me white to the extreme when we said goodbye last month. He went from saying I was a “liar, and a cheat always casting around for other men", among other charming things, to saying I was “beautiful, kind and immensely intelligent”. (This actually hurt more because why would you want to leave someone with those traits). It was over the top and right at the other end of the scale. All in the space of a couple hours which is no longer surprising.

He also seems to have resorted to magical thinking in that it’s now his belief that fate had intervened to split us up. Not his behaviour, not mine, but fate. I understand this as a protective defense.

My question is will it stay that way? Will he define me by how our last interaction went or will he likely split me black again or even completely forget me?

[Confused108]

Lamoryant my ex did similar things to me as well. I was the one who needed treatment etc. all those horrible things. Then I was a good friend etc. it was absolutely crazy making. And I'm sure you have also felt with them changing their minds a thousand times a day. For example my ex would be so living and kind to me in the morning. By time the afternoon came around she was totally different and was looking to break it off. My ex would also say how she believed in how everything happens for good reasons etc. That absolutely enraged me. She made up absolute bs excuses of why she wanted out of our relationship. My ex was my girlfriend from 14 yo in 1987. We started out as friends 1st. She was normal and my mom broke us up. Well my ex lost it and her parents sent her to a mental hospital for 2 months. This was 1988 . When she came out she was a total monster. Def not the girl I had dated. When u snuck behind my moms back to date her again she at 1st was like yea I still love you. Then it was no I don't and she was very nasty towards me. I couldn't understand why bc this wasn't my fault. Well 26 years later she finds me on FB. I put her off for 2 years  bc she was coming on to me. Then in June of 2015 I was stupid and took her bait. For 2 months I love u / I don't . All the crap. Final discard Sept 2015. She also said  she never thought about me all those years. Now she has painted me black blocked me on Facebook and went on with her life like I never existed. 

[FallBack!Monster]

Hey Larmoyant, here's what I think.

pwBPD are said to have problems with object constancy. It’s my understanding that they view the behaviour of people in their lives as if there were no previous context so there’s no sense of consistency or continuity. Meaning that they would find it difficult experiencing others as a loving presence in their mind when we’re out of sight.

This is sad but seem to be true.  Out of sight out of mind. That's probably why when my ex and I first me she pushed to spend all of her time around me. But I was oblivious about the disorder and its characteristics. Not that one should be okay with feeling stifled.  However my reaction or approach to it would have been different.

This seems to be related to splitting where they view others as all good or all bad, no grey, implying that they do not realistically perceive others. How can they if they only see in black and white. Do they carry on splitting us when we’ve broken up with them? Or permanently paint us black or white?

This topic is interesting to me. I can't say I know it's relationship to splitting but I wonder, if there's no object permanency how can she still split me black after the break up. Sounds to more like she has no significant memory of our r/s and moreover, the reason why they can so easily find a replacement.

My ex seems to have settled on painting me white to the extreme when we said goodbye last month. He went from saying I was a “liar, and a cheat always casting around for other men", among other charming things, to saying I was “beautiful, kind and immensely intelligent”. (This actually hurt more because why would you want to leave someone with those traits).

This sounds like confusion. It would be if that was me.  Remember to separate the person from the disorder. A person w/o the disorder would also go through the back and forth. Like me, reasons why I loved her and then reasons why I shouldn't. Confusion and it was hard to accept it didn't turn out as I had hoped.

It was over the top and right at the other end of the scale. All in the space of a couple hours which is no longer surprising.

The above quote, I would name, a fight within once self.

He also seems to have resorted to magical thinking in that it’s now his belief that fate had intervened to split us up. Not his behaviour, not mine, but fate. I understand this as a protective defense.

I don't know him but it's said that in a r/s with a disordered individual both parties are at fault. Maybe not purposely but denial and ignorance play a big part. Also BPD impulsivity and reaction to the behavior by the other partner. Not knowing enough about the disorder hurt me, therefore, I kept trying the same thing.  Her, I can only judge from what I've read. I found it more pleasing to me, to stop blaming and Trying to figure her out. The point made here is about black & white thinking. If you employ that same style of thinking its less perplexing. Whether my name was Peter or Paul, she is who she is. Only difference could have been Peter's or Paul's reaction and subsequently, my actions.

My question is will it stay that way? Will he define me by how our last interaction went or will he likely split me black again or even completely forget me?

They don't forget people ever or forever.  I've read they split you black w/o obvious provocation. My ex has gone completely NC and this time I think it's for real. But I don't believe she'll ever forget what I had to offer.
Shes not dumb just disordered. Although I don't believe she remembers who we were to each other, or better yet, what I believed we meant to each other. if that's the nature of the disorder, then so be it.
My comments are from my experiences and point of view. Every one is different. I hope this doesn't sound simple and my comments serve a purpose.

[LilMe]

My UBPD and I have children, so I have to interact with him several times a week. I never know if he is going to hate me and say hurtful things or love me and tell me how beautiful and amazing I am. Either way it is terribly upsetting and I leave in tears. I honestly do not think he can help it. He is overwhelmed by his emotions.

[stimpy]

My ex seems to have settled on painting me white to the extreme when we said goodbye last month.

So when you and he finally said "goodbye" this may have triggered his fear of abandonment (even if it was mutual and by all accounts what he "wanted" a few hours or days earlier) and so he suddenly wanted you back and so you got painted white. I had the exact same experience. She dumped me, no closure, no contact and I was painted a very dark shade of black. I sent her an email a few weeks later saying, ok, fine, let's move on and try and avoid each other from now on and heal, find new partners etc... .She then painted me white, chased me, and wanted to re-engage. I refused, and then the stalking began (painted black again).

Will it last, maybe, it all depends on what else is happening in his life. If he gets involved with someone else, then you may be forgotten about for the moment, even painted black, because the new love will be so amazing and so good, and by comparison the memory of you could become tarnished.

But from what I've heard, that may not be the end of it. There are stories of BPD exes coming back months or even years later. Sometimes as if nothing had happened. Go figure... .?

We deal in a world of relationships, they deal in a world of attachments. They are not the same thing.

[once removed]

just a note:

object permanence is related to "out of sight, out of mind". when a small child sees mother leave the room, he/she experiences abandonment, with no consistent, internalized image of mother, and without knowledge that mother is there, just in another room, and will return.

Meaning that they would find it difficult experiencing others as a loving presence in their mind when we’re out of sight.

that

object constancy is related to splitting.

It’s my understanding that they view the behaviour of people in their lives as if there were no previous context so there’s no sense of consistency or continuity.

that

[Grey Kitty]

Sometimes it isn't so much out of sight, out of mind, as feelings = facts.

He paints you black. Because he's feeling hurt/angry/whatever about you. He then molds reality so that everything about you matches his feeling. Past, future, everything.

But feelings aren't permanent. They come and go.

The feeling can change and he can paint you white. Again, molding reality past, present, and future to match that.

This might happen while you are out of sight. Heck, it might have happened a dozen times in sequence, and you don't even know about it.

[ynwa]

I asked my BPD a bit ago, if she understood that when I was angry with her, that I still loved as much as when I wasn't, that the anger was separate. That my love was constant. I repeated this with disappointment and happiness, and a few other words.   She said she wasn't sure what that meant.  I asked her, when she was angry with me, did she still love me?  She said no, and I'm not sure.

I reinforced that my love was constant. That it didn't go away.  I left it at that,  it it struck me as seeing her processing was different.  It released me from some guilt, because I could see she deals with this all the time.     

[FSTL]

Trying to work out their irrational behaviours is always difficult. if only we could all just cut them off and never think of them again... .perhaps I am engaging in magical thinking like a BPD?

Mine once broke up with me and gave me all sorts of reasons why she was doing it, much of it projecting or over sensitivity to issues I thought we had long since resolved. I say once, but this happened plenty of times before the example here.

I spoke to her a few days later and reminded her of some of the good things between us and showed her a little kindness. All of a sudden I was all good again and she pursued me and we got back together again.

But it's fool's gold to do this - BPD are not difficult to manipulate into coming back to you... .but why would you want to, and even without the manipulation, why would you want to take back someone who is GUARANTEED to keep up with the same hurtful behaviour, in the same way it is guaranteed they will come back if you let them.

Best thing is to cut off the sick relationship before it consumes you - remember the bad times if you need help remembering why you shouldn't let them back in if you're painted white again.

[valet]

It takes an immense amount of tact and usually an irregular amount of both self-sacrificing and care taking instincts to avoid being split either way. Some might say that it's impossible to a degree, and I would tend to agree on some level.

Remember, even many therapists struggle to treat the disorder in their patients in which the diagnostic criteria present. First and foremost, you have the embrace and understand what it takes to be in a re-parenting role—that's the only way someone with BPD will accept the attachment.

On another note, it seems pretty unlikely that anyone could stay permanently painted a certain way. This isn't to say that anyone should overlook the origins of this though, which are an unstable sense of self and poor attachment strategies/patterns.

I've ignored the most important question so far, however. What's in it for you?

[Larmoyant]

I've ignored the most important question so far, however. What's in it for you?

Understanding, I think, as it’s helping me to detach. I sometimes wander off the path though and wonder what he’s thinking and feeling, but I’m back on track now.

I’m working through the ending. It was confusing. He split me black, then white, told me he loves me and had really, really wanted it to work, blamed ‘fate’ for us not working, then kindly told me he has a new girlfriend who he cares for very much so would no longer be communicating with me. He hasn’t left me alone since I ended it 11 months ago!  He finished it by saying “Don’t forget I love you”. WTH.
 
The new girlfriend part doesn’t worry me too much funnily enough. He might be in the idealization stage, but I can’t see it working out anymore than we did or the girlfriends before me. The last one ended up warning him she would call the police if he ever contacted her again and wrote that he needed psychiatric help. He’ll repeat this pattern of that I am sure unless he takes responsibility and gets that help. Only he’s not taking responsibility because according to him FATE ended us.

It’s an excuse so he doesn’t have to take responsibility for his behaviour. No consideration of behavioural cause and effect, action and reaction. It’s upsetting because we control our actions fate doesn’t. I'm not saying it was all him. I'm aware of my own faults and issues here. I believe what upsets me about this is the implication that there’s nothing either of us could have done to prevent it and also nothing can be done in the future. The remaining little bit of futile hope I was holding onto just died.

There is no hope left. How can there be? If he refuses to accept any responsibility there is no light on why it failed, no chance of changing things by understanding where it went wrong. There can be no improvement if you don’t understand where you went wrong and what needs to change.

Not sure what I'm feeling now? Defeated, sad. I gave up on myself for this and lost so much.

[Larmoyant]

I forgot to add.

As for object constancy and splitting it explains so much. How he went from loving me to hating me sometimes in minutes. This is my understanding, please correct me if I am wrong.

He has no ability to fuse all the parts of me, the good and the bad, into a single coherent/consistent/integrated object. This reflects the basic failure of an early developmental milestone in infancy. The splitting into good (idealised object) or bad (devalued object) depends on the emotions he is feeling at the time and is used as a defense. A defense against fears of abandonment and engulfment allowing him to to repress either the negative or the positive for perceived survival purposes.

Wish I'd known this 3 years ago.

[vortex of confusion]

I’m working through the ending. It was confusing. He split me black, then white,

Ex does the same thing with me. He would paint me black to other women. Then, he would tell me that I was so great and wonderful. If I was so great and wonderful, why did he need to chase these other women? If I was so great and wonderful, why couldn't he be a little bit more respectful of me? It still makes no sense.

Instead of using fate as an excuse, ex blames himself for everything. I was trying to talk to him about some stuff one time and he took responsibility for everything and said, "I am such a horrible person. This is all my fault." It makes me so mad because I usually end up telling him something positive about himself. It is infuriating that he can't even seem to hold on to the good stuff that HE has done. He paints himself black and forgets that there was a reason I married him in the first place. It is maddening that it seems like he can't look at our entire 20 year relationship and see that there were ups and downs and good and bad. The reason I had to end things was because I woke up to what was going on.

He didn't understand that changing for a day was not going to erase the entire past. He would want to know what he had done to upset me this time. I would tell him and he would say, "I don't do that." I finally figured out that he meant, "I am not doing that right now." If I pointed out a time when he did it, he would say, that has been a while ago. Um, his a while ago was a week or two. I couldn't just get over things because he stopped doing stuff. He couldn't stop doing stuff long enough to prove that he had actually changed. He hadn't looked at porn/chased women/whatever for a whole week, he was cured and didn't need help and didn't need to talk to anyone and I was supposed to trust him even though I know he is impulsive. His lack of ability to have any kind of stable sense of what was going on baffled me.

[Larmoyant]

Vortex, 20 years  I seriously do not think I’d be around if I had spent that long with my ex.

It’s taken me quite a while for all of this to sink in. I couldn’t quite grasp it all until now. I put this down to a month complete no contact. 

My ex would seldom blame himself (if at all) but like yours would deny doing cruel things to me  saying I was just trying to make him out to be a bad person. E.g. one time his mood changed  and he threw me out of his car in an unfamiliar location. It took me over 2 hours to get home. His home because he had my dog. When I got there he’d changed back to Dr Jekyll. He denied throwing me out of the car and said I’d got out voluntarily as I’d wanted to get a bus! Which was ridiculous. None of it made sense. I used to think it was done on purpose to hurt me. Now I believe it was a symptom of his disorder and he may not have been able to control it only he still meant to hurt me at that moment. Of that I’m sure. What doesn’t make sense now is why I stayed. I actually stayed over at his place that night despite him doing that. I really have some work to do on myself. I have many traumatic memories like that.

I wish I could say that I'm relieved to be out of it, but I'm still attached a little. More time needed.

[vortex of confusion]

Vortex, 20 years  I seriously do not think I’d be around if I had spent that long with my ex.

I am persistent! I don't give up easily. Plus, he wasn't physically abusive. He was more like a petulant child.

but like yours would deny doing cruel things to me  saying I was just trying to make him out to be a bad person.

There were times when he would do cruel things to me and then act like I was making stuff up. He called me a b***h one time and then flat out denied that he said it. I pushed the issue because I was mad and I knew what I heard. He finally admitted that he thought it but didn't think he actually said it. I guess he was freaked out because I was reading his mind or something.  

E.g. one time his mood changed  and he threw me out of his car in an unfamiliar location.

I only have one big memory of him being physical with me. He pushed me down when I was holding our daughter. He got woke up and was super grumpy. He swears that he didn't push me down. He swore that I fell down when he tried to get by me. The older kids saw it and said that, "No, dad pushed you."

There were a few other incidents where he did stuff and said he didn't do it. It was more childish stuff so it was easier to overlook.

I wish I could say that I'm relieved to be out of it, but I'm still attached a little. More time needed.

I have my moments where I am really relieved and then there are moments when I am still attached to the really good parts. Ex could be a really good guy at times.

Sometimes, I wonder if part of what makes it so difficult to detach is the fact that I have split him and have a difficult time accepting the bad parts. It isn't that I have painted him white. It is that I have moments when I wish I could have found a way to cultivate those good parts and keep the bad parts at bay or minimized. That is magical thinking and I know it. I do not have the mental strength or fortitude to do what it takes to be with ex.

[valet]

Understanding, I think, as it’s helping me to detach. I sometimes wander off the path though and wonder what he’s thinking and feeling, but I’m back on track now.

I’m working through the ending. It was confusing. He split me black, then white, told me he loves me and had really, really wanted it to work, blamed ‘fate’ for us not working, then kindly told me he has a new girlfriend who he cares for very much so would no longer be communicating with me. He hasn’t left me alone since I ended it 11 months ago!  He finished it by saying “Don’t forget I love you”. WTH.
 
The new girlfriend part doesn’t worry me too much funnily enough. He might be in the idealization stage, but I can’t see it working out anymore than we did or the girlfriends before me. The last one ended up warning him she would call the police if he ever contacted her again and wrote that he needed psychiatric help. He’ll repeat this pattern of that I am sure unless he takes responsibility and gets that help. Only he’s not taking responsibility because according to him FATE ended us.

It’s an excuse so he doesn’t have to take responsibility for his behaviour. No consideration of behavioural cause and effect, action and reaction. It’s upsetting because we control our actions fate doesn’t. I'm not saying it was all him. I'm aware of my own faults and issues here. I believe what upsets me about this is the implication that there’s nothing either of us could have done to prevent it and also nothing can be done in the future. The remaining little bit of futile hope I was holding onto just died.

There is no hope left. How can there be? If he refuses to accept any responsibility there is no light on why it failed, no chance of changing things by understanding where it went wrong. There can be no improvement if you don’t understand where you went wrong and what needs to change.

Not sure what I'm feeling now? Defeated, sad. I gave up on myself for this and lost so much.

Then you'll have to learn to brush it all off from here on out. Life isn't perfect, so we need to learn from it. It's not common that people get to do right by themselves in such a way.

[Pretty Woman]

My ex once pushed me down a flight of stairs and sat in my living room rocking. She was breaking up with me and wanted her key back.

She left my house when I threatened to call the police and called me crying that she had no idea where she was (she drove off in a huge pick up truck)... .could have killed someone.

Later that night she called me crying, moaning that she couldn't live without me.

The next day I was "public enemy #1" and she was threatening a RO. All this because SHE was leaving me for an ex!

AND stupid me took her back after she drove out of state and spent a vacation with this ex for a week. She called me over 100x on the return drive and I took this back.

When I read this it amazes me I wasn't killed in this relationship. This is definitely BPD with some other serious co morbidities.

I have been split black for over two years and I hope I stay that way.

[Confused108]

My ex once pushed me down a flight of stairs and sat in my living room rocking. She was breaking up with me and wanted her key back.

She left my house when I threatened to call the police and called me crying that she had no idea where she was (she drove off in a huge pick up truck)... .could have killed someone.

Later that night she called me crying, moaning that she couldn't live without me.

The next day I was "public enemy #1" and she was threatening a RO. All this because SHE was leaving me for an ex!

AND stupid me took her back after she drove out of state and spent a vacation with this ex for a week. She called me over 100x on the return drive and I took this back.

When I read this it amazes me I wasn't killed in this relationship. This is definitely BPD with some other serious co morbidities.

I have been split black for over two years and I hope I stay that way.

Wow Pretty Woman you are very lucky nothing happened to you. My ex on two different occasions told me that she would love to put a pillow over my head! I was in total shock! I couldn't believe what I was hearing out of her mouth. And then she just laughed about it after she said it. Also my ex would go back and forth with she wanted to be with me she didn't. Sometimes in the same day! I would speak with her on the phone and then later on that evening it was like I was talking to a totally different person. I also feel my ex has co morbitidy
 as well. Def not all BPD in my book. A specialist told me that in some cases not all they can have BPD and also have a split personality. That's what I feel my ex has.

[Confused108]

When my ex came back into my life I had asked herbdid she ever think about me?  Her answer was no. She said when my mom broke us up she had to totally disconnect to deal with  losing me. But yet she had taken 2 pictures of me when I snuck out behind my Moms back to meet her and another mutual friend. I had no idea these pics were taken and that she still has them to this day. She keeps them in a box. So I was thinking how the hell do u forget me for 26 years and never give me a thought but yet you have 2 pics of me you keep in a box and know exactly where they are? Crazy.

[lovenature]

They make up their own reality to fit their current emotion of the moment, it goes for the past, present, and future. The more we accept they suffer from a serious mental illness the better we will be able to detach; I know how tough it is because I am still struggling with it everyday.
One day at a time as best we can.

[Kaster21]

They make up their own reality to fit their current emotion of the moment, it goes for the past, present, and future. The more we accept they suffer from a serious mental illness the better we will be able to detach; I know how tough it is because I am still struggling with it everyday.
One day at a time as best we can.

 Hey guys I would have to say I agree with this ending statement. I have dated 3 of the crazy ass borderlines and they rarely get help. The first two hurt me pretty good but the third not so much. It only took me about two weeks to let her go and I did it because she cheated on me and abandoned her 4 year old with me and lied to me about where she was going. So basically one lie turned into a whole lot for me. So it was simple for me to accept ending it and what do you know she denied it ever happen but yet CPS told me where she was the night she wasn't at my house but according to her she was at her sister in laws. Crazy how their feelings are their beliefs. I've had tons of experience with these types and you just have to let go and walk away and just remember most of them don't change. How can someone change if they can't see an error in their actions? Hell they can't even accept the do anything wrong. Hell you could have a video showing them doing wrong and they will deny, blameshift & minimize the problem to you or some other stupid reason. I have. I sympathy for them with this disorder. They know what they do and they know they do it they just don't give a ___ about no one but theirselves. You're better off walking away and getting yourself better and finding a healthy young lady to be with or man. You'll be a lot happier in the long run I do assure you.