This just doesn't makes any sense - 5

[Before you can make things better, you have to stop making them worse...]

The disorder wins, and she and I lose. It is so sad. In the months after the discard, I saw her sometimes, and she looked hollowed out, and aged so fast, really sad... .Even now it upsets me, where did the lovely vivacious funny girl I first knew go.

This is where I see the disorder, my exBPD left me for someone else (married) but they are not actually together and all I see right now is someone broken and old looking, it is so incredibly sad. It seems ridiculous for her to put herself in that position but for whatever reason she feels she can't be with me.

[earlyL]

The disorder wins, and she and I lose. It is so sad. In the months after the discard, I saw her sometimes, and she looked hollowed out, and aged so fast, really sad... .Even now it upsets me, where did the lovely vivacious funny girl I first knew go.

This is where I see the disorder, my exBPD left me for someone else (married) but they are not actually together and all I see right now is someone broken and old looking, it is so incredibly sad. It seems ridiculous for her to put herself in that position but for whatever reason she feels she can't be with me.

[Stripey77]

We're all here with you. I promise you, albeit in varying forms and degrees.

Over a year ago, my amazing and pinch myself amazing boyfriend, the man I thought (and still feel) was my soulmate, just threw me away like a piece of trash over the most minor of disagreements. There wasn't even an argument really.

We were out on a day trip, and on the way up (he was driving) he was in love, loved up, so happy, singing, joking, holding my hand. 4 HOURS later he couldn't even bring himself to look at me or speak to me after I had dared to criticise him. I was dumped via text 3 days later after 3 agonising days of silence.

He has been in, and out, and back in my life countless times since, including 2 bouts of pretending I don't even exist and walking past me in town as if I were invisible, for several months at a time. This time last year I was on the brink of profound depression and almost hoped not to wake up from my sleep.

I spent last night and some of today with him. No I am not detaching brilliantly, but I am in a far far stronger position of understanding and knowing the monster I am dealing with.  I am still in love with him. But I know that everything EVERYTHING he does with regard to me and emotions is guided by this horrible condition. He is to the best of my knowledge, undiagnosed, but he knows something is wrong with him. I am so so sure it is BPD I can almost now predict his movements towards me. After 4 weeks of hard, hard radio silence on my part in an effort to heal, he suddenly reached out and contacted me in the middle of the night last night. I was expecting some kind of move toward me but not something so blatant. He is almost 'text book' if there is such a thing, and there is where I find my comfort, and my answers.

 Slowly, over time, you will start to see that the answer to your questions of 'how could she?' 'why?' 'what happened?' will be replaced with one answer: she is unwell. She has an emotional disorder. She has BPD. I almost now think of it as a  separate entity to either of us; yes, it's within him and your ex, and part of who they are, but it isn't WHO they are in their entirety.  How could she do it? Because she has BPD. How does she not seem to care about what she's done? Because she has BPD. How could she swing from one extreme to the other? Because she has BPD.

To use an analogy that people like to use so often with mental illness, let's imagine for a second that your ex had a broken leg, not a broken brain.  Let's say that the leg is in plaster and she is on crutches. Now let's throw some questions at this scenario... .

Q: But why can't she take part in the race?

A: Because she has a broken leg.

Q: But why can't she drive?

A: Because she has a broken leg.

Q: But how could she refuse to come and walk with me round the park when just yesterday she said she was looking forward to it?

A: Because she has a broken leg, and now she can't.


BPD is hidden, but it's not to those of us on the receiving end who got this close to the people involved.  It is ever present, and liable to show itself at any time. It's obviously not a broken leg, which will undoubtedly heal, but I hope my analogy goes some way to illustrate my point that the answer to your questions is actually ridiculously simple. No matter how much we ruminate, go round and round in circles, replay events in our minds etc. etc. etc... .the answer is the same. They did it because they have BPD.

It really is so sad, for us, and for them.

[FallenOne]

I realize that none of you truly know all of the details about my ex or my relationship, and only know what I have revealed on here in my posts, but I want an opinion based on a few different situations that happened throughout my 4 year relationship.


I feel like my BPDexgf cheated a few different times, but I never caught her in the act or had enough evidence to prove that she did, so I want to explain a few stories and hear what you guys think.


First incident.

Sometime in late 2013, while I was at work one evening, my ex was leaving class and we were texting. She told me she was "going to catch up with an old friend". I asked who and she just said "Courtney"... So, I said okay, and continued about my work duties. This was around 5pm... About two hours later, I text her to see what's up. No response. An hour or two later, once again, no response... I get home from work. I try calling. No answer. She wouldn't answer any texts or phone calls for the rest of the night... Thinking back now, I wish I would have just went to her house after work, but unfortunately, for some unknown reason at the time, I didn't do that... The following morning, around 10:30am while I'm sitting in class I finally got a text from her. I don't even remember exactly what it said, but she told me she was assaulted. When I asked her about this in person, this is how her story went... She told me that this girl turned on her, pinned her to my ex's bed, took her phone away from her and tried to rape her... And apparently she wouldn't let her leave her house... They sat there all night. Finally, in the morning she left... And that's when I received a text... She didn't know the girls last name, didn't know what kind of car she was driving, couldn't find a social media profile for her (even though that's how she initially contacted her) and she was indifferent about filing a police report...

This story ^^ is absolutely ridiculous and makes no sense in my opinion... Yet, I believed this bullsh*t and pushed it aside to save the relationship... Initially I didn't believe it, but she started crying and said "this happened to me!" and bawled her eyes out, so I let it go...

Second Incident

In mid September of 2016 (not that long ago) she broke up with me, out of nowhere, and went silent... I didn't argue with her this time about it and just let her go... Three weeks later, I put a written letter in her mailbox to clear up some things, and as soon as she got it, she contacted me, and we started talking again... She was with the girl she started seeing after she got out of the hospital in March (after our big breakup)... The girl she's currently with right now... Anyway, soon after we started talking again, I noticed there was a guy posting on and liking her statuses on facebook... I had never seen him before... So, I asked her about him, and she said he was an old friend from high school who she started talking to again, and that I had nothing to worry about... I didn't let it go at this though... I spoke to one of our mutual friends on facebook (who was also friends with this guy) and asked him about this guy... Just so happens that the this guy had a conversation with our mutual friend recently and was talking about how he was hanging out with my ex and was bragging about how "he smashed that last weekend"... .This would have been less than a week after she left me in mid September, and she was already dating this girl at the same time... I printed out the conversation that our mutual friend sent me, and approached her with it... At first I asked her if there was anything she wanted to tell me about and at first she just said "don't f*ck with me right now, Matt... " and then said "don't push my buttons, I don't want to think about any of that... " (whatever that means?) So I told her about the messages that our mutual friend sent me and how the guy she was talking to was bragging about how he "smashed that last weekend"... She said "what the eff?" "What are you talking about?" So I showed her the messages. She immediately started getting angry, and crying at the same time, and turned it around to be the victim... She said he was lying... She said she only talked to him for a few days and they only hung out a few times... She denied sleeping with him and said he was lying and then she said "Even if I had slept with him, we were broken up at the time, so it wouldn't matter." She was extremely upset about this situation, and actually came to my place, picked me up, and drove us somewhere to sit and talk about it (she never did this before). But all she did was deny the whole thing and say this guy was lying... When I talked to him on facebook though, he said they had sex...


These were the two major incidents... There are a few others that happened as well that I will explain now.


One time, I left work early and came home (this is when we were living together) and she was sitting at the kitchen table with some guy I had never seen before having a drink... When I went inside, I told her we needed to talk, and the guy immediately got up and left. She never told me she was inviting someone over, and I had no idea who he even was. I never saw him again after that.


One of her male friends who was a drug addict and recently got out of jail, was in the hospital one time... She went to visit him... Later sometime after he got out of the hospital, she was talking to him online and apparently he was really high and threatened to rape her (according to her)... I told her that she needed to block him out and stop talking to him, but she didn't... She kept talking to him... A few weeks later, when I was at her place, this same guy showed up and she let him in to hang out... After he left, we had an argument and I forbid her from speaking to him anymore, because he seemed a little dangerous and was an ex convict... She gave me the same BS about "trying to control her life and tell her what to do"... Besides, why the hell would someone want to hang out with someone who threatened to rape them? When I asked her this question her answer was that "he was just messed up on drugs at the time and didn't know any better"... Not long after this, I never saw the guy around again.


Each time we had a breakup, whether it was a few days or a few months, every single time she came back, there was a host of new people on her facebook friends list who I had never seen before... This never happened while we were together. Only during breakups...

A few times she admitted to sleeping with some people while we were broken up, and was pretty honest about it... So, if she did sleep with others, why was she honest about some of them but not all of them?

What do you all think about the stories above? What do you make them out to be?

[SoMadSoSad]

Yes. I just want to know why I'm only seen for the few mistakes that I made rather than the dozens of good things that I did? Why doesn't she see any of that? Why does she only see my shortcomings and mistakes?

Because it is a coping mechanism. Now what will you do with that answer.

[infjEpic]

This story ^^ is absolutely ridiculous and makes no sense in my opinion... Yet, I believed this bullsh*t and pushed it aside to save the relationship... Initially I didn't believe it, but she started crying and said "this happened to me!" and bawled her eyes out, so I let it go...

Second Incident

In mid September of 2016 (not that long ago) she broke up with me, out of nowhere, and went silent... I didn't argue with her this time about it and just let her go... Three weeks later, I put a written letter in her mailbox to clear up some things, and as soon as she got it, she contacted me, and we started talking again... She was with the girl she started seeing after she got out of the hospital in March (after our big breakup)... The girl she's currently with right now... Anyway, soon after we started talking again, I noticed there was a guy posting on and liking her statuses on facebook... I had never seen him before... So, I asked her about him, and she said he was an old friend from high school who she started talking to again, and that I had nothing to worry about... I didn't let it go at this though... I spoke to one of our mutual friends on facebook (who was also friends with this guy) and asked him about this guy... Just so happens that the this guy had a conversation with our mutual friend recently and was talking about how he was hanging out with my ex and was bragging about how "he smashed that last weekend"... .This would have been less than a week after she left me in mid September, and she was already dating this girl at the same time... I printed out the conversation that our mutual friend sent me, and approached her with it... At first I asked her if there was anything she wanted to tell me about and at first she just said "don't f*ck with me right now, Matt... " and then said "don't push my buttons, I don't want to think about any of that... " (whatever that means?) So I told her about the messages that our mutual friend sent me and how the guy she was talking to was bragging about how he "smashed that last weekend"... She said "what the eff?" "What are you talking about?" So I showed her the messages. She immediately started getting angry, and crying at the same time, and turned it around to be the victim... She said he was lying... She said she only talked to him for a few days and they only hung out a few times... She denied sleeping with him and said he was lying and then she said "Even if I had slept with him, we were broken up at the time, so it wouldn't matter." She was extremely upset about this situation, and actually came to my place, picked me up, and drove us somewhere to sit and talk about it (she never did this before). But all she did was deny the whole thing and say this guy was lying... When I talked to him on facebook though, he said they had sex...

The first incident sounds more like a test of you, than cheating.
It's hard to say really.

The second incident, blatant lying imo... .I mean, the exact phrases she is using here are phrases which I can recall being told to me and I've seen others recount hundreds of times.


She sounds nasty... .I don't keep nasty people in my life.

[FallenOne]

She sounds nasty... .I don't keep nasty people in my life.

Honestly, when we were together, a lot of the time she was pretty balanced out... You want to know when things started getting really crazy? After I broke up with her in the hospital...

Ever since then, she's been on some kind of self-destructive sex and lying binge... .I wonder why that is?

[jonmnemonic]

Matt, at some point you'll need to stop trying to figure her out.  You don't need to understand everything in order to have closure.  You will never know the truth or motives about everything she did.  Accepting that she is a toxic individual and working through the reasons why you are attracted to someone like her would be most helpful to you long term.

Does it matter if she cheated every time you suspect she did?  You already know she's cheated on you and also had sex with other people while you were "split up" so what is your tolerance level for that type of behavior? 

[AustenJ]

Hey, Matt S.!

First off you have to let this stuff go... .it will make you crazy. Borderlines totally mess with your intuition... .you run any of these scenarios by a group of people who have never dated a borderline and I guarantee they all say... ."what's wrong with you, man? It's as clear as day... .she's so cheating on you!"  But like you and anyone else who has been involved romantically with a borderline, and we are balls deep in the relationship (pun intended), it's impossible to get a clear understanding of situations like this... .and we let them go because we are so in love and we do everything not to lose the loves of our lives... .

Before we lived together, my summer job was working part time at a golf course where I worked really early in the mornings. On the weekends I would go to her place after work around 7am and hop into bed with her and cuddle for the morning... .she always knew ahead of time that I was coming and would leave her door unlocked... .so after work on a Saturday, I showed up and her door was locked... .hmmmmm... .so I texted, called, banged on her door til she answered... .she is a really heavy sleeper and would always drink heavily on the weekends out with friends... .of course, she stepped out on the porch to talk to me instead of inviting me in and immediately told me that she and her friend Johnny had ubered back to her place after partying... .she always insisted that they were just friends... .and he was sleeping on the couch, promise! I had never met Johnny, but of course, my spider sense was not tingling, and I accepted her story... .I was more upset that she had forgotten about our morning cuddling session... .

so after work on sunday I show up again... .this time there is a strange vehicle parked in front of her place... .she lived in a duplex so I gave her the benefit of the doubt... .She usually parks in her garage... .I banged on the door, texted, called, leaned on the doorbell, no answer... .hmmmmm... .I even went over to her duplex neighbor and asked them if  that strange car parked out front belonged to them... .of course, they said they had never seen it... .hmmmmmmmm... .she finally texted and said she was running our trail and would be back shortly... .she never sent me many pics unless they were selfies of her... .but she sends me a pic of the trail like it's proof... .I ask her about the car and she says it must belong to her neighbor's friend... .and of course, I tell her that I already spoke to her neighbors and the car does not belong to them... .she doesn't know who it belongs to and sends me another pic of her car parked at the head of the trail... .more proof... .I tell her I'm across town but I'm actually sitting in a location where I can not be seen watching her duplex... .cuz i'm thinking that the guy is still sleeping at her place while she went for a run or that her car is actually in the garage... .I'm so intent on watching the door as it's the only way in or out, and the neighbor's door is right there too... .a guy comes from the back of the building and hops in that car... .hmmmmmm... .never actually saw her with the guy, mind you, but... .come on now... .I figured it out later... .they had run the trail together after spending the night together (same guy)... .she dropped him about a half mile from her place and he sprinted to his car... .still at this point it was crazily not a relationship-ender... .she was pissed that I pounded on her door again... .she was guilty as sin... .but you let all that slide when you are in love with a borderline... .they are very good at lying and providing misdirection... .

 You will make yourself crazy trying to figure out a borderline... .they have trouble figuring themselves out

[GlennT]

 I wish I had a dollar for every time I heard/read these BPD excuses for when they're cheating: "I'm busy working.", "I will be seeing an old/friend/family.", then they go ghost, and return saying they were "raped" or "assaulted". When they are actually caught with someone, or spitting BS, they all rely on the same old "insult and dismiss" school of discourse,and becoming even more insulting and dismissive when you counterattack. These are a couple of common BPD excuses and  procedures you've mentioned here imo.

[MiserableMostly]

But when I put my rational head on (not the emotional one), I know that this was the push after the pull. This was her feeling engulfed and not being able to stand it, and having to push as hard as she could to get me out of her life as I'd triggered deep emotional pain in her that I doubt even she fully understands herself. Feelings are facts, and her feeling was that of emotional suffocation, that was my fault, and so I am to blame, so I must be dumped.

This really rings true for me. About 6 weeks into dating I asked her to be my girlfriend. And he said yes right away. And then 5 minutes later she said she couldn't do it. And took it back. That was this being acted out before my very eyes.

[infjEpic]

Honestly, when we were together, a lot of the time she was pretty balanced out... You want to know when things started getting really crazy? After I broke up with her in the hospital...

Ever since then, she's been on some kind of self-destructive sex and lying binge... .I wonder why that is?

It's always worse after the break up.
Once you've become aware of the grandiose false-ego, it's never the same again.

The other 2 posters in this thread are spot on.
These are questions you will probably never get an answer to.

I don't think there is any problem with asking for a 2nd opinion. So my attitude is fire away - if it helps you.
But they have a good point in that - you will never actually get the truth, and these questions can incessantly eat at you. (speaking from personal experience)

My relationship lasted 126 days, with another 27 days of recycling until I finally went full NC.
I had come to the conclusion that she was a nasty individual three times in that timeframe.
It was the understanding it would never change, that i was waiting for. Couldn't move on, until  I got that.
In this way, the ASPD and NPD traits of my ex were actually a blessing in disguise. 3 months post breakup and 2months into NC, she was passenger in a car that tried to run me over in the car park of a local shopping centre.

But think about how short a timeframe that is really - that's barely enough time to finish the honeymoon period in a non-disordered relationship.
And yet I would dwell on the details. For a while, it really came to totally define me, more than anything else in my life.
That's not surprising, since there is so much hurt and betrayal. So much emotion and trauma.

But even to this day, I will still take time to ruminate about various deceptions.
I'm just much better than swatting those thoughts away now.
It's a time based thing for most people.
The counter starts ticking from the day you go FULL NO CONTACT.

My attitude is that, when it comes to BPD, always expect the most selfish explanation to be true.
You have prior proof that she was promiscuous, and the 2nd incident is screaming of deception and betrayal.

There were stats I was looking at on this forum the other day and in 65% of cases, the non was cheated on. About another 15 to 20% were 'I suspect, but have no proof'
About 5% were I don't know.
So that basically means, in 9 out of 10 cases, the BPD is more likely than not to be cheating.
And I suspect that some of those 1 in 10 are in denial in all honesty... .I've even heard some rationalise away the pain along the lines of "well, he/she didn't betray me, it was the disorder that betrayed me".
Well, in that case, Charles Manson is a free man, it was the psychopathy that murdered those people, not Manson.
Or it was the gun killed those people, not the person behind it.
Or whatever.

I think people will find a way to cope with all the pain in whatever way they can, but this method of blaming the disorder and not accepting the person in their entirety - while externally, it seems compassionate - it's actually very dangerous and deluded. Nothing is learned. No defenses are constructed, and the individual actually becomes MORE susceptible to later abuse - NOT less!

The bottom line here is that you have more evidence than you could ever possibly want, that this person is toxic.
And toxicity lingers in the host - long after the source has been removed.
That is why you are still dwelling on these betrayals.
Embrace the anger for a while and let it protect you - accept the betrayal - but then - let it go.

You can still be grateful for the good times, but you have an enhanced level of reinforcement against toxic people who may come your way in the future.

[once removed]

My biggest mistake was not taking the red flags seriously and getting out early .

The biggest mistake is getting involved with a BPD

its interesting how many members compare their relationships to an addiction (including members in this thread).

there are lots of people that experiment with drugs/drinking in high school and college that dont become addicts, much like there are people that have dated someone with BPD, experienced the unhealthy dynamics, reassessed, made changes and/or walked away.

an addict in treatment/recovery explores the relationship they formed with their substance of choice, and they learn a lot about who they are and how they got there in the process. they learn better coping mechanisms. they live a fuller life. 

some continue to point the drug - "if i just stay away from the drug, if i just hadnt touched the drug... .". do we really want to stop our journey there?

[Duped 1]

some continue to point the drug - "if i just stay away from the drug, if i just hadnt touched the drug... .". do we really want to stop our journey there?

If you are comparing having a rs with a pwBPD to a drug then the answer is definitely yes. How many people have actually have a mutually satisfying rs with a BPD? There is a reason even some trained counselors won't deal with them. My sister is one of them and there are many. So if you're asking if it would be best to just stay away from abusive people with the emotional intelligence of 4 years olds the answer is a definite yes.

[ynwa]

Hey Matt,

It's no easy thing to accept the things we have to with our loved ones.  Doing the emotional math fails us, doing the rational math fails us.  Because we are involved with these people who we accept and love, we think then they will to.

The things she has done and will do, are not about you. But BPD or not, this is what she will do throughout her life. You should not have to have gone through this, and I see you hurting and trying to clarify every feeling with an answer.

This is not your fault or responsibility, you did not make her do these things.
Letting go of that weight, is hard, damn hard. And there isn't any easy way to do it, then just letting it go, with a crash and a bang. 

https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=111772.0

Try reading this, and practice 5-10 minutes of mindfulness. Just before you read it.

Just sit quietly, comfortably, start breathing and count to 10, 1 for inward breath, 2 for out and continue to 10 and repeat.  Concentrate on your counting, and let your body and mind relax and listen to how it feels.

[once removed]

If you are comparing having a rs with a pwBPD to a drug

you made the comparison, Duped, in several posts.

if youre saying the issue is the beer bottle and not the addict, fair enough. the problem is we learn nothing that way, we dont resolve in a balanced way, our relationship with the drug, or our complicated feelings around it, and we dont resolve the underlying issues, the dysfunction that we brought into the relationship, and we are extremely likely to carry all of it to future relationships.

[Soulcrushed4]

I agree with all the posters above.

I was cheated on endlessly start to finish. The blatant ones were met with a misdirection or further straight up lies. There were denials, double speak, blame-shifting and discussions of what was and wasn't cheating or an emotional affair or a physical affair or endless accusations, deflections or partial drop feeding of "truths". Or involving an uninvested third parties opinion on whether said behaviour was acceptable or not in their opinion. Or pointing out ways I had been imperfect in my dealings with the opposite sex so I must be the one projecting. I'm positive there are countless other indiscretions I didn't even have a clue about. In the end his convenient way to avoid accountability was putting it all on me for not "wanting to heal" or not "wanting or trying to trust" him, or living in the past... .completely overlooking the fact that he had lied and continued to cheat through so many supposed fresh starts but it fell to me to continue to as I had done foolishly before make the effort to keep rug sweeping the red flags because then he was not responsible for not causing more damage or needing to come clean since to him I wouldn't believe it anyway. I also think the cheating was his way of hurting me because it became a very clear weapon of choice if I didn't behave or treat him the way he deemed acceptable and of course it was also the perfect way to keep us from getting to close and in his mind justified by my imperfections or shortcomings.

I think wanting desperately to just have the truth truth, having all the puzzle pieces so to speak, or full story, relying on him to somehow show me I was worthy of his honesty is part of what kept me in the sick cycle.

My need/desire for fidelity and honesty was a massive stumbling block in the relationship.

It still is a raw wound. I still struggle with accepting that I won't ever have the full truth from him and I believe now that's my biggest hurdle to healing... .that and just accepting that I it happened and that I overlooked so many red flags I never have in other relationships. I'm working on accepting that I deserved the truth but that he isn't capable of or interested in facing it so I need to move forward.

Even if she didn't "cheat" physically or emotionally in any of the scenarios you mentioned it still isn't behaviour that to me is conducive to a healthy relationship. It's hard to make peace when we don't have all the answers but sometimes knowing more  just opens up yet another door of more heartbreak and trauma.
I'm realizing in doing the relationship autopsy solo that my spider senses were tingling early on and I'm trying to focus on how and why I ignored my gut soo many times so it doesn't happen ever again.

[Duped 1]

you made the comparison, Duped, in several posts.

if youre saying the issue is the beer bottle and not the addict, fair enough. the problem is we learn nothing that way, we dont resolve in a balanced way, our relationship with the drug, or our complicated feelings around it, and we dont resolve the underlying issues, the dysfunction that we brought into the relationship, and we are extremely likely to carry all of it to future relationships.

I completely disagree that I will be carrying underlying issues into future relationships. I've never had such a messed up rs before. Why? Because she is BPD and I was being attacked verbally on a routine basis.

[FallenOne]

You have to remember and remind yourself that you were treated poorly.

[FallenOne]

I'm asking because this is a board for people who have been through some pretty traumatic experiences and it's no surprise all of us (including myself) would have negative things to say about a traumatic experience...

The general consensus around the internet is that these relationships are impossible, or next to impossible... And 99% of you have said they never work, they always fail, and there is no happy ending or riding off into the sunset with the next partner...

Yet, if you go to a site like psychforums.com for example and go to the "BPD Relationships" board where it's the exact opposite of this board (people with BPD trying to cope with failed relationships) everyone on THOSE boards say things like ":)on't fret, there is hope for you afterall" "You can have a successful relationship" "You can overcome this and find a lifetime companion" "it's difficult but not impossible" etc. etc...

So are they all doomed... .or not? Are people just saying whatever they think will "soothe" us on either board? Is it no different than telling a suicidal jumper that "their life has meaning and it's not worth it... "?

I've read stories from people on here, and elsewhere, about these relationships lasting 20, 30 or even 40 years. That doesn't seem like a failure to me.

Also, If they don't grieve relationships, or they don't feel the pain that we feel after a breakup... .whether they initiated it or not... .then why are there boards offering BPD's support for failed relationships?

[once removed]

it seems you are still looking for exceptions to the "rules" youre reading about on the internet. there always will be. the world isnt black and white.

ill tell you of course not "all" of "their" relationships are "doomed" and that this is all or nothing thinking. someone else will be along to tell you that of course all of their relationships are doomed.

so, knowing this, what do you want us to tell you, and how can we inform your question?

[SoMadSoSad]

It can work with someone who is compatible. My ex made it work with the replacement and they rode off into the sunset. He does trigger her but he knows how to calm her down.

[Pretty Woman]

Matt, I can second that some people work better with them than others.

My ex is still nasty as heck to my replacement. My replacement tolerates it. She also handles it better than I did. Does that mean I suck? No. What it means is this was NOT the right relationship for me.

BPD or not you can continue to analyze all the "what if's" however, at the end of the day it's still the same... .you were not a good match for each other, BPD or not.

[infjEpic]

I've read stories from people on here, and elsewhere, about these relationships lasting 20, 30 or even 40 years. That doesn't seem like a failure to me.

Also, If they don't grieve relationships, or they don't feel the pain that we feel after a breakup... .whether they initiated it or not... .then why are there boards offering BPD's support for failed relationships?

My views - like anyone - are informed by my personal experience.
Also by extensive reading (and receiving counselling), rather than any formal training.

Given the volatility of the disorder and the relatively short time DBT has been on the scene, just going off base statistics alone, you're going to have a much higher percentage of people with a traumatic experience.
That probably answers at least part of your question.

I haven't looked on that other forum you mentioned - but I'd be very reluctant to post there anyway. I'd be concerned of the damage I could do to people unintentionally, besides having nothing constructive to offer.

I don't post in the 'making it work' sections here either.
To me, most of people are denial - not a criticism, I was in denial once too - but it's very difficult to help someone who is in denial. They usually require a revelation in the form of a nasty splitting episode or a devaluation cycle.

Part of my reason for posting is because I was blindsided by BPD. Totally ignorant.
Not only would I want to prevent other people experiencing the associated trauma, or help them to leave an abusive situation if they are in it, I also find it helps me to process my own thoughts and emotions, by helping others.
And I'm still learning new things also.

Another part of the reason I post - is because there is so little awareness of Cluster B disorders.
The media really do us a massive disservice.
Not only had I no idea what BPD was before my relationship... .I thought a Narc is someone who looks in the mirror a lot. Clueless (and most people would consider me well educated on a broad range of topics!)

I'll often read news articles where there is clear Cluster B disorder at play.
The best the media have to offer, are tactless or uninformative descriptions such as 'BunnyBoiler' or 'Psycho'.
They rarely delve below the absolute surface level description. No explaining. No informing.
Lazy Journalism. Therefore, it's free to propagate.
I'll often leave a comment in the article, to briefly explain what Cluster B disorders are, and that they don't all come under the banner of psychopaths.

Just imagine if dating sites forced you to read an article about BPD before you could sign up - at the minimum it would increase awareness. It's like cigarettes not carrying a carcinogen warning - except that the link between smoking and cancer is mainstream knowledge.

Like I said, I had no prior knowledge of it's existence. But now that I've been through it and come out the other side, I surprised by the amount of people who have a friend or a nephew or something, in a similar situation, even in the small city where I live.
I always offer to have a 10min chat with them to share my experience... .the thing is, it's much easier for people to 'be real' from behind an anonymous username, than it is in person.
Forums such as this should receive a government subvention imo - but I digress.


In terms of making it work - I'm an INFJ, which is supposed to be the most compatible type with BPDs.
I never had a relationship that lasted less than 3 years, until the BPD which lasted 126 days with 27 days of recycling before FULL NC.
I think if the BPD is willing to acknowledge they have a disorder, and they're willing to do DBT and whatever else is required, then maybe it could work.
But that takes years. And usually the BPD sufferer has to be single.
And that's before taking traits into account. If the sufferer has pronounced ASPD & NPD traits, then it's a whole different animal.

Most of the posts you'll see from people who post here, who have 15 or 20 years experience in a BPD relationship, are usually quite sad, like someone who just woke up from a nightmare, and questioning how they let it happen, how they became the abused etc.

There's no way I could live with myself, if I encouraged someone to stay through what I experienced, never mind years of abuse!, in the hope that there might be a payoff at the end.

I think I have a duty to inform.

[Rayban]

Matt S

You started  a thread on this forum stating that if you didn't react to her or if you would have been more accepting then you could have made it work with your BPDex. If she is untreated you have to outcomes; walk away or choose to stay and accept the inevitable cheating, lying, and eventual death by 1000 small cuts. God bless those folks who stood by in some cases for multiple decades of this. Longevity is not necessarily an indication of a successful relationship.

As for BPD suffers on the other board who are self-aware and seeking or getting help ... .well yes they can strive to healthy relationships if they are honest with their partners and taking actions, not just words to improve.

All that being said does it really matter in your case?

Are you willing to overlook the FACTS that your ex has;

Obtained a RO against you, villified you, lied to you, cheated on you, pushed you away to pull you back in stronger ... .does it really matter why some of these relationships last longer then other's?

Consider yourself lucky and start spending more time on making yourself a better person and less time trying to figure out why a mentally disordered person do what they do.

[vanx]

Matt,
I've been getting a lot out of your posts. They seem to generate some deep discussion. This one's interesting to me. Personally, I have a history of mental illness and difficulty finding healthy relationships. I know when my T says, "you know borderlines can't have relationships" etc, on some level it takes away some of the pain, but only in a superficial way. And also, it feels pretty damning in a hurtful way. I struggle with issues similar to her, so maybe that means I'm doomed too. How does a person with BPD cope with stigma and heal? Yes, it's an attachment disorder that definitely affects relationships. Like anyone, like us here too, pwBPD need to assess their issues honestly, but they also deserve hope and compassion.
I look at psychforums occasionally as well, because I like to learn about people with BPD from their perspective and experiences. From what I read on there, I see value in the support often offered there, because like I said, people suffering deserve hope and understanding. That said, though it's moderated and informed, it is also a place of opinions and personal stories, which will differ.

So are they all doomed... .or not? Are people just saying whatever they think will "soothe" us on either board? Is it no different than telling a suicidal jumper that "their life has meaning and it's not worth it... "?

I think you're right--there is a lot of soothing, because we mostly come here wounded, and we need people to understand us, but also, people on here will give it to you pretty straight I think when they're able, because we can handle some truth we need to get through! Also, to use your example, I think the person telling the jumper life is worth it really means and believes that!
I don't know for a fact, but I do believe there is hope for pwBPD, a lot of hope, but it also seems like a real challenge. It seems like early experiences can have a great impact on us, but also, if there is a will to change and hard work, it can be done. This kind of work I think has to be done within, however. Maybe a better way to frame it is, it's not really helpful to say that they are "doomed", but just that they have their own issues to deal with that they will have to face themselves to get better.

Also, If they don't grieve relationships, or they don't feel the pain that we feel after a breakup... .whether they initiated it or not... .then why are there boards offering BPD's support for failed relationships?

The "grieving" issue is one I am still interested to understand better. I think many of us know what you mean. My ex was uncharacteristically cool when she dumped me. With her, I think it was just how she had to cope with things, without having the skills or understanding of herself to have handled it differently. I don't think she feels a sense of loss of me as a person, but just probably feels not so great if the thoughts creep up. Just a wager though--who knows?
With the failed r/l support (someone correct me if I am wrong!) but I do think abandonment issues are definitely often triggered especially when the non dumps, and pwBPD do mourn the loss of the r/l, miss the person, want to reunite, feel ashamed at pushing someone away. This is something none can experience too, but with pwBPD, there may be more severe attachment issues that make the loss more difficult.

[Reforming]

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