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Author Topic: What are the advantages of marriage?  (Read 763 times)
SamwizeGamgee
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« on: February 03, 2017, 01:17:06 PM »

Alright, I am asking a ridiculously dumb question.  I don't mean it sarcastically either.  I realize that in order for me to numb myself from the negatives in my marriage to my uBPDw, I have numbed myself to the positives also.  I can only ask myself the question "what was I thinking, why did I get married?" so many times.  I've been a caretaker far too long.
I consider myself married as a contract right now.  I don't feel love or longing for my wife or marriage.  But, I'm trying to be fair to the decision I am making, whether to stay or go. 
Can someone remind me what's good about a marriage?
Although this is a little light-hearted, and even though it sounds like I'm joking, I wonder if I really am.  What's good?  What's in it for me?
Thanks to all for some guidance! 
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« Reply #1 on: February 03, 2017, 09:04:10 PM »


There is some sort of structure to your life... .your family.  Can you remind me again about the size and ages of your family?

A marriage is usually the adult way of maturing yourself.  Except now you don't have parents, you have a spouse and yourself.  You get to use all of your life lessons to evaluate your life, make decisions, evaluate your life, rinse... repeat...

Can you remind me again if you are particularly religious?

FF
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« Reply #2 on: February 03, 2017, 11:06:13 PM »

Off the top of my head  :
  • Frequent sex, low risk of STD
  • Stable environment to raise children
  • Someone to take care of so that you aren't always focused on yourself
  • Someone to help you in areas that you are weak
  • Someone to call 911 when you can't do it yourself
  • Division of labor for household chores
  • Financial support when you are sick or infirm
  • Someone to share life with, cry with, lean on
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SamwizeGamgee
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« Reply #3 on: February 04, 2017, 09:53:12 PM »

Bullet: comment directed to __ (click to insert in post) FF - D18, D15, S12, D9, D6. Stable family, all same parents, first marriage.
I get it that marriage, and any close adult relationship, is a refiner's fire, so to speak.   I've matured and learned for sure.  Unfortunately, suffering has been my teacher in married life.
I'm religious in that I hold Christian teachings as true.  I am a strong believer, but, have a very open attitude to all.  I regularly attend church services on Sunday and work with kids and youth in Sunday school and one day midweek.  I chose my bride since she was of the same faith - something I consider(ed) important.  All that glitters is not gold, however.

@Fian - well, I think that might be an issue.  I'm only hitting on a few cylinders then - maybe that's why I am missing the good news message in marriage.
- mostly sexless marriage for 18 of 20 years, better a bit now since I've pretty much said my needs weren't met.
- stable for the kids on my part. Mom's around, but alternatingly pious and devoted mom, with overwhelmed depressed and snide mom at other times.
- taking care of someone, hmm. I have five kids and various pets.  I'm trying to give up my caretaker role that I had with my wife. 
- someone to help my weaknesses.  I'll grant that.
- call 911. I'll grant that. I think she would
- division of labor.  Well, she picks what's important to her and is hurt if I didn't do it her way / time.  I did majority of meals, as much as child care as possible when home, and all the home upkeep care.  She does some laundry and vast amounts of picking up.
- financial support - it has been me, for me, by me.
- share life with - nope. I have to close all door hatches and windows around her emotional storms.  I wouldn't cry or lean on her to save my life.
In sum, I guess there are some things good about a marriage.  I will keep trying to seek out and count my blessings.  I'm hesitant a bit because the good things are looking like "sugar that helps the poison go down."
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« Reply #4 on: February 05, 2017, 02:51:53 AM »

So... .What happens when you ask for sex?

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SamwizeGamgee
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« Reply #5 on: February 06, 2017, 08:24:15 AM »

So... .What happens when you ask for sex?

I'm not sure I'd be exaggerating to say I got an 80 to 90% rejection rate.  Off the top of my head,  I think her primary answer is "we'll see," if it's not an excuse or denial.  It's  not usually in a negotiation way, more like more hoops to jump through.   I noticed recently, as I'm paying more attention, that if I mention sex or anything to do with it, I'll catch a quick microsecond of her expressing something in between a sneer and rolling eyes. She doesn't realize it, but, I think the nonverbal message  leaks a little truth.  I used to have a saying that " she's not happy unless I'm not happy."
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« Reply #6 on: February 06, 2017, 09:06:02 AM »

 
Have you guys ever done joint counseling? 

Have you ever asked her directly about her expectations of YOUR sex life... .?

What does she expect you to do  with 80% rejection rate.  I'm a metric guy... .I would hazard to guess that "normal" is about 25%.

Personally... .my rejection rate is very low.  However, lately I've not been much in the mood.  I don't find the rages and BPD attitude to be very attractive.

We all find a "normal" in our "abnormal" relationships.  I'm sure many look at my stories and wonder "how I put up with it". 

I have a hard time seeing myself in a r/s with that high of a sexual rejection rate. 

Does she offer... .um... ."other services" when she doesn't want to have sex?

Do you think if this number moved to a 50% reject rate... .that your outlook on the r/s would improve dramatically?

FF 
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« Reply #7 on: February 06, 2017, 10:09:35 AM »

In sum, I guess there are some things good about a marriage.  I will keep trying to seek out and count my blessings.  I'm hesitant a bit because the good things are looking like "sugar that helps the poison go down."

Yeah, I was guessing that you would be saying a lot on the list you were not receiving.  On the other hand, you did see some benefits from marriage that you weren't counting before.  I remember a woman who had just gone through a divorce with a loser husband, who after the divorce missed some little things that he had done for her.  Even in a dysfunctional relationship, there is usually something you get out of it.  On the sex side of things, how much sex were you getting before you met her?  In my case it was 0 as I was waiting for marriage, and it would be 0 after unless I remarried.  So while 20% sounds pretty low, on the other hand it is still higher than 0.
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« Reply #8 on: February 07, 2017, 08:27:03 AM »

Bullet: comment directed to __ (click to insert in post) FF -
joint counseling. No.  Up until her awareness increased recently, everything wrong was my fault, in her eyes, so there was nothing joint counseling could do.  Ironically, when I felt I could trust her with a little openness, and finally told her I had been going to T sessions - she was devastated  as though I had betrayed her at the core.
Sex life - Recently I disclosed that I thought (after much denial while trying to cope) that sex was after all maybe a need in marriage, and my needs weren't being met.  Until then it seemed like sex was to placate me, but more usually withheld to manipulate me, and then it happened when she wanted.  I am not sure what she expected, or what she thinks would happen in a sexless marriage.
Other services - not really.  Every so often she may do manual work.  But, being with someone who is that begrudging and dispassionate about any sexual 'services' is not conducive to the mood.  In fact, if it wasn't so scarce as it is, I would comment that sexual boredom is a huge problem.  She has no real imagination, or seems to have no drive or desire (unless it what she wants at the moment - which is rare).
I actually think that if our sex life was closer to what I wanted, I might be fine managing this marriage, even with the BPD baggage.  Not as it is though.

Bullet: comment directed to __ (click to insert in post) Fian - True!  I guess from that point of view, even bad sex is good sex.  Based on religious convictions, we waited until marriage for any sexual contact.  Years prior, I was in a long-term, very satisfying physical relationship that stopped short of intercourse, but, was great in all regards.
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« Reply #9 on: February 07, 2017, 10:24:13 AM »



OK... .so your religion drove both of you choices about sex before marriage.   Doing the right thing (click to insert in post)

Somehow... .I would figure out how to ask her if her religious view drive her choices about sex after marriage.

1 Corinthians 7:4
The wife does not have authority over her own body but yields it to her husband. In the same way, the husband does not have authority over his own body but yields it to his wife.

Lately I have been finding my wife very unattractive... .due to the BPDish stuff.  She is a very attractive woman.  Not really sure how I'm going to move past this... .  For a long time we have had a very full sex life.

The last few times she has asked for sex... .we had sex.  I rarely reach out to her anymore.

FF
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« Reply #10 on: February 07, 2017, 10:28:55 AM »

Hey Sam, Perhaps we should make a distinction between "marriage" and "marriage to a pwBPD"?  The usual rules don't apply, in my view, to a BPD marriage.  It took me years to realize that there was something "off" in my marriage which was way beyond a normal, healthy r/s.  So, maybe your question should be rephrased as follows: "What are the advantages of marriage to a person suffering from BPD"?  Tough question, I know.  

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SamwizeGamgee
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« Reply #11 on: February 07, 2017, 12:30:17 PM »

Now that the whole internet knows about my sex life, I had different ideas too.
I can talk about, and quantify, the sex life, at least the physical portion.  But, I have clearly missed the emotional and spiritual relationship.  Maybe I should have addressed that.  It seems to me that would be as important as a physical relation.  So, on this matter, I can't track when I last felt emotionally intimate with my wife, or ever. 

And that goes to LJ's point.  Perhaps there are not emotional advantages of marriage to a pwBPD traits.  On second thought, my suffering has brought me great maturity and perspective.  I'm on my way to being a survivor, and hopefully can have compassion on others who suffer.  Maybe I can inspire and give hope to others as well. 

There, I found an advantage to having a harmful marriage. 
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« Reply #12 on: February 07, 2017, 12:37:52 PM »

Somehow... .I would figure out how to ask her if her religious view drive her choices about sex after marriage.

1 Corinthians 7:4
The wife does not have authority over her own body but yields it to her husband. In the same way, the husband does not have authority over his own body but yields it to his wife.

Lately I have been finding my wife very unattractive... .due to the BPDish stuff.
... .

Oh, I almost laughed in spite of myself when this made me think of using scripture to talk about sex in an encouraging way.  Oh my, that would be an interesting event.  She's kept most of her saintly martyr persona, between the self-loathing breakdowns anyway. 

I get it when you say you find your wife unattractive.  After my enlightenment, I learned to see my wife as the whole person.  I see our dark history and remember it.  I keep this perspective to help me cope with the lack of intimacy. 
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« Reply #13 on: February 08, 2017, 07:33:33 AM »

Oh, I almost laughed in spite of myself when this made me think of using scripture to talk about sex in an encouraging way.  Oh my, that would be an interesting event.  She's kept most of her saintly martyr persona, between the self-loathing breakdowns anyway. 
 

Here is the thing.  Why would you not choose to do this?  There is history to support this.  It appears you both used religious belief to modify your sexual behavior prior to marriage, why would you no attempt to use religious belief to modify sexual behavior after marriage.

Especially if you are deeply unhappy about your sex life... .

Is it your job to only have conversations with your wife about "non-triggering" topics?  Hmmm... .bonus question... .what do we call that around here?  (serious question to answer)

Let her deal with uncomfortable feelings.  If she wants to self-loath... .let her.  Use boundaries to protect yourself.

Thoughts? 

FF
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« Reply #14 on: February 08, 2017, 08:33:51 AM »

OK. I see what you're saying.  I like to catch my own double standards when I can, and see how they make me stuck. 

Given that, especially when it comes to highly personal and intimate things like sex, I am _very_ cautious about avoiding the feeling that I am coercing, preaching, persuading, or enticing, someone to do something they are the least bit uncomfortable with.  I would want it to be willing and free - or not at all.  Further, speaking of double standards, I desire to be with someone who is more like me in sex drive and interests.  I think that stuff comes from deep down.  If she does something that I want, and not because she wants, I feel that I am making her do it. I'm very independently minded, and I have the utmost respect for everyone being able to do what they feel good about. 

There was a movie I watched a long time ago, I think I remember it starred Jennifer Aniston.  In the movie, it depicted the arc and final failure of their relationship.  One "argument" and discussion had Aniston's character tell the guy that he should to the dishes. He said, "I do the dishes." She said, yes, but I want you to want to do the dishes. The guy said, "but I will never want to do the dishes." 

So, though I may want something more from intimacy, and she can have sex with me, I doubt she will ever want what I want, or that we will connect, or have that in common.

Plus, there was a psychotic eruption about two years ago in which she basically said that she had been having sex unwillingly over the years.  In essence, my interpretation of what sex meant to her, went from a chore, to sin, to a crime - in my understanding of her mind.  I'm not really able to recover from that.   We didn't have sex after that for about 10 months or more, and only got back to it when she basically pleaded.  I'm not thinking religious teachings are going to modify this.
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« Reply #15 on: February 08, 2017, 09:32:04 AM »

Here is the thing.  Why would you not choose to do this?  There is history to support this.  It appears you both used religious belief to modify your sexual behavior prior to marriage, why would you no attempt to use religious belief to modify sexual behavior after marriage.

Especially if you are deeply unhappy about your sex life... .

Is it your job to only have conversations with your wife about "non-triggering" topics?  Hmmm... .bonus question... .what do we call that around here?  (serious question to answer)

Let her deal with uncomfortable feelings.  If she wants to self-loath... .let her.  Use boundaries to protect yourself.

Thoughts? 

FF

In my case, I have used the verse whenever she suggests that we stop having sex, but I use it slightly differently.  I don't use it to tell her that she has to have sex with me.  I use it when she proposes that we stop having sex, and I say I don't think it is a good idea because of the verse.  She is still free to not having sex with me, but I would be sinning if I refused to have sex with her.

Sam, I am on the other side of the "I want you to want to do the dishes."  My wife does not give me credit for doing the right things, because I am only doing them because she asked, not because that is what I wanted.  I hate it.  One, my thoughts are my own, she usually can't read them correctly, and two, I can't control my heart but I can control my actions.  I find it to be a defeatist attitude in a relationship.  Since you are perceived at having the wrong thoughts and are therefore intrinsically bad, your actions no longer matter.  You are just defective, and in my wife's mind she is justified in pulling away in the relationship.  Toss in perfectionism, and if things aren't perfect then they are awful in my wife's mind and she pulls away.

In regards to my own situation with sex right now, it has become weaponized.  If she is not fully satisfied with the sex she gets angry or cries.  It is at best a 50/50 proposition.  It often works out like this.  We have a great day together and I think that maybe she will say yes to sex.  She agrees but is fearful of the outcome (I am too).  We have sex, she deems it a failure, and gets angry or cries.  Now the day has turned from great to awful.  We avoid sex for a few weeks, but due to FF's verse we try again and the cycle repeats.
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SamwizeGamgee
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« Reply #16 on: February 08, 2017, 09:55:56 AM »

Fian, I am sorry to hear this about your situation.  I know that real intimacy, a connection though sex is an early casualty in a disordered relationship. Weaponized is a good way to describe it.
My wife was mad at me when I made her really good omelets (her favorite) and brought them up to her in bed as a nice breakfast in bed, with no implications, strings attached, or whatever (I had been up for some time, and didn't sleep in the same room at the time anyway).  She was mad because in her words I "did it to be nice, not because I loved her."  :)amned if I do, damned if I don't.  So much for wanting to wash the dishes!  

It sounds like your scripture verse isn't working the way it was intended.
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« Reply #17 on: February 08, 2017, 12:35:16 PM »

Being sexually compatible is an important part of a marriage for most people. (Aside: I believe this from a pragmatic perspective; I'm not qualified to say whether it goes with, against, or alongside any scripture!)

That means finding each other attractive.

That means wanting a similar amount of sex. Usually one partner wants it more than the other; If there is a middle ground which works for both partners, I'd call it compatible. If one wants it ~once/year and the other wants it ~twice/day, it clearly isn't compatible!

That means wanting the same kind of sex, or at least close enough that you both enjoy it, even if there maybe *something* that one of you likes and the other doesn't, or doesn't nearly as much.

Sexual incompatibility doesn't mean that either partner is "wrong" any more than it would be for one partner to want 5 kids and the other to not want any--Just that for the two of you to stay together, at least one of you is going to have to choose to give up something important.

Sexual incompatibility does mean that it will be much harder to make your marriage keep working, though.

In essence, my interpretation of what sex meant to her, went from a chore, to sin, to a crime - in my understanding of her mind.  I'm not really able to recover from that.   We didn't have sex after that for about 10 months or more, and only got back to it when she basically pleaded.

I hope you can let go of some of that, perhaps by understanding that for a pwBPD, immediate mood and feelings will change history to match. In other words, at the time she said that, she believed it. Then later (i.e. when she was begging), she didn't. And she's incapable of really seeing the contradiction in that.
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« Reply #18 on: February 08, 2017, 01:10:31 PM »


  I would want it to be willing and free - or not at all.

    Here comes that FF... .challenging you again.  Can you see how this is black or white thinking?  

Listen... .2 or 3 times ago that I had sex with my wife.  I can honestly say I would rather have skipped it.  I have declined several times and she was ok with it... .sometimes she is not ok with it.  Here is the thing... .I had no "real" reason other than I didn't want to.  I DID know that our "amount" of sex was a bit lower as of late, so I made a choice to value the relationship over an above my personal desires of the moment.

I'm well aware that my wife has done the same for me.  Yes... .sometimes she plays martyr before hand... .(rarely after)... .and sometimes even after she plays martyr I still press ahead.  Other times I validate and skip it.

The last time she offered to "have sex if you really want it... .and you are willing to do the work" I knew that she was starting to feel bad, and that many others had sore throats in the family.  So... .I validated... .rubbed her neck some... .wished her a good nights sleep and skipped sex.

I'm typing all this to "show" that there are a variety of types of sex or reasons to skip sex I would encourage you to use all of them


 I feel that I am making her do it. I'm very independently minded, and I have the utmost respect for everyone being able to do what they feel good about.  

Frankly... .I think this is your issue to work through.  I would caution using "extreme language" like "making her do it"... .when in reality you are advocating for your own desires.

Trust that she is an adult... .that as an adult she realizes that NO means NO and if she really wants to turn you down... .she will use the word NO.

As will you... .if it ever gets to that point.

And to be clear to all reading this... .I do believe a clear NO should be respected... .in all cases.



So, though I may want something more from intimacy, and she can have sex with me, I doubt she will ever want what I want, or that we will connect, or have that in common.

Again... .your issue to solve.  If she values the relationship enough to "take one for the team" when she doesn't "want" to... .I think you need to count that as a win and move along to other issues.


Plus, there was a psychotic eruption about two years ago in which she basically said that she had been having sex unwillingly over the years.  In essence, my interpretation of what sex meant to her, went from a chore, to sin, to a crime - in my understanding of her mind.  I'm not really able to recover from that.   We didn't have sex after that for about 10 months or more, and only got back to it when she basically pleaded.  I'm not thinking religious teachings are going to modify this.

So... .given what you know now from lessons and such at BPD family.  How should this be handled... .assuming she said it today?

Follow up question.  Given what you know about BPD... .what is she "really" asking when she proposes/asks "I think we should stop having sex... ."?


I'm glad to be learning more about your story.  Thanks for being so open about such intimate issues.

FF
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« Reply #19 on: February 08, 2017, 01:16:44 PM »

Good point GreyKitty - There are so many things that are hard enough in marriage between two average, healthy people!  Adding sexual incompatibility to it is just asking for more conflict.

I do get a sense of peace when I accept that things are what they are. Rather than contorting through what I can do to be better, or change things, when I pause to accept that there are fundamental differences between my wife and I, it just sounds right.  We aren't compatible. No blame, responsibility, right or wrong, no history or excuse needed, it just isn't making either of us better at this point.  

Now, I have to take that acceptance and evolve it into action.  The BPD is just an accessory to that motivation to act.
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« Reply #20 on: February 08, 2017, 01:19:46 PM »

@FF - our responses crossed in the internet.  I'll give more thought to your post. Thanks.
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« Reply #21 on: February 08, 2017, 01:36:13 PM »

We aren't compatible. No blame, responsibility, right or wrong, no history or excuse needed, it just isn't making either of us better at this point.

Yup, but given how many children you have and how many of them are still young, you may still choose to stay married as the best thing you can do for your children, despite the incompatibilities.

Hard question: Can you live with these? (Including sexual incompatibility) And if you prefer to stay together despite them, what do you need to find for yourself to make it work?

One bit of advice I've heard, especially in a situation where splitting would harm your children is ":)o what you have to do to stay married and stay sane."

It may help you to (mentally) explore those options in as much detail as you explore options of ending your marriage.
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« Reply #22 on: February 08, 2017, 01:46:42 PM »

Excerpt
when I pause to accept that there are fundamental differences between my wife and I, it just sounds right.  We aren't compatible. No blame, responsibility, right or wrong, no history or excuse needed, it just isn't making either of us better at this point.  

Well said, Samwize.  Ideally, a marriage is greater than the sum of its parts.  To me, that's the advantage of marriage.  Yet my marriage was making me miserable.  I once said to my T that I yearned to flourish again, which I deemed impossible within the confines of marriage to a pwBPD.  Maybe others can do it; I couldn't.

LJ
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Wrongturn1
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« Reply #23 on: February 08, 2017, 02:22:56 PM »

Here is the thing.  Why would you not choose to do this?  There is history to support this.  It appears you both used religious belief to modify your sexual behavior prior to marriage, why would you no attempt to use religious belief to modify sexual behavior after marriage.

Years ago, during the period in our marriage when I would ask for sex from my wife pretty much whenever I wanted it, she would reject me probably 70 to 90 percent of the time.  She would still reject me this often or even more if I still asked every time I am in the mood, but my acceptance rate is much better these days because I have learned to only initiate on the approximately 5 days per month that she is likely to be receptive based on her cycle.  So these days she rejects me only about 40 to 50 percent of the time, which feels like an improvement over how things used to be. 

But regarding "the verse", I don't use it on my wife (we are both Christians).  She knows the Bible, including the verse, so she knows that withholding goes against scripture.  We both know it.  So if I quote the verse when she turns me down, to me it comes across as coercive and manipulative, and I would be concerned about alienating her from both me and the Bible by doing that. 

For that matter, if I started quoting scriptures to her every time she does something that's out of line with scripture (refusing to forgive, gossiping, worrying, negativity, judging, dealing harshly with our kids, etc.), I would be figuratively beating her over the head with a Bible many times a day, every day.  So for me to selectively pull out the verse when she refuses to give me the sex that I want/need(?) would not likely result in a positive outcome for either of us. 

Reading all this that I've just written also makes me think, gee, Wrongturn1, you're not much of a spiritual leader for your wife, so that's something I'll be considering as well.
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SamwizeGamgee
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« Reply #24 on: February 08, 2017, 02:53:54 PM »

I spent 2016 mostly in peace as I worked on myself internally.  I immersed myself in hobbies and kid activities also.  I avoided conflict and reached a point of acceptance having worked through the "grieving" of my marriage.  I did all I could to accept marriage as what it was and be happy.  The happiness is sticking, that's good.  The satisfaction and hope for the marriage has gone.  So, I think I have explored was to manage indefinitely, and I think I'm finally shaking off the stupor I was in.  Inside, I'm starting to move again.  Given the kids, and the finances, and the physical stability, I should just find a way to stay married, but, I'm not sure that's going to work out. 

There is also one practical matter, in legal precedent, a 20 year marriage has been traditionally the cut-off for lifetime alimony in my jurisdiction.  The courts are reforming a little bit, to where each case is considered on its merits, and they no longer expect a divorced woman to be helpless in the work world.  But, it's a big gamble if I know the marriage is done. I should do it, and get on with restructuring.

I distance run as a hobby.  I know from experience that at some point, on some long runs, you are just done.  No water, energy gels, massage, food, pep talk, caffeine, walking, no nothing can bring it back. 
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« Reply #25 on: February 08, 2017, 03:00:07 PM »

... .
One bit of advice I've heard, especially in a situation where splitting would harm your children is ":)o what you have to do to stay married and stay sane."
... .

That's the crux, I'll suffer as long, and as much as needed, to do what's best for the kids.  In honesty though, what is best for them?  I think they sense more than they let on.  Would splitting help? or hurt?
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« Reply #26 on: February 08, 2017, 03:23:25 PM »

  In honesty though, what is best for them?  

Only you can answer this.  There is so much nuance in every relationship.

I would encourage anyone that is considering splitting... .to thoroughly understand the legal system and if you do split... .work every angle to your advantage... .and the advantage of your kid.

My opinion is that most BPDish people get more unreasonable... .especially in the first year or two. 

Sometimes after divorce is final and "real" boundaries are established... .there can be a calming.

Usually... .it seems to me... .is that a split results in worse things for the kids... .for a while. 

But again... .every situation is so different. 

Do you have any idea how divorce is handled in her family?

Likely that will be a good clue

FF
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« Reply #27 on: February 08, 2017, 04:41:06 PM »

What would splitting do to your kids, and would it be better or worse for them?

Well, if they end up with your wife full time, and you had no chance to see them, raise them, or influence them, I imagine that would be worse for them. From what I know of custody, some are old enough that the courts would probably honor their choice of which parent to be with, and some aren't. You and your lawyer can speculate on how likely that outcome is.

Even if that doesn't happen, nobody will enjoy the stress of the splitting period.

After the legal battles are done... .or mid-way but when you have split custody, it is up to you to figure out what you can do to make your kids life better.

You might want to post on the "Co-parenting after the split" board, asking what it is like.

You could also read or post on the board for children who had parents with BPD, and compare people whose non- and BPD parent split with ones where they stayed together in a frozen loveless marriage, or cold war marriage... .to see what sort of things impacted them and how.

You can educate yourself, but ultimately, you have to choose what you think will be best for your kids, and you will never  know what the other path would have been like.
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SamwizeGamgee
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« Reply #28 on: February 08, 2017, 08:16:13 PM »

Thank you all.  A long while ago, I followed and asked questions on a board for children of BPD parents.  I saw very personal, and attentive answers - without the clarity of whether it's better to have split or stayed.  It seems we are all human after all, and all unique.  There are so many variables.  I found the adult children's responses very valuable.  I'll look into the co-parenting lists too.  I read and post occasionally on the divorcing boards too.

As to the sub-topic here of religion.  I relied on my religious belief set when I dated and courted my wife.  I believed that with someone of the same faith, and importantly the same conviction, we would make a good couple.  I think the decision was more rational that emotional.  Immediately after the wedding, I was hit by remorse and regret.  I realize now that just having faith, even strong and shared, does not mean the union is going to work.  I actually feel a bit down on religion for that.  I feel like I did my part, followed the counsel, and ended up here regardless.  I am not inclined to reach again for faith in religion to fix this marriage.  

It's a good philosophical discussion about whether this was God's plan for me all along, to marry into such a one-sided and difficult marriage so that it would make me a better, stronger, more compassionate person.  But, that's a whole different side-show discussion.
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« Reply #29 on: February 08, 2017, 09:28:02 PM »

I am not inclined to reach again for faith in religion to fix this marriage.  
 

It's been 6 months or a bit longer since I've been in "Biblical Counseling".  More my wife's idea than mine.

In deciding to go down that path... .and afterwards... .I've done lots of thinking about faith and our marriage.

It is my belief that if two people share the same faith... .that helps a bunch in marriage.  The unfortunate thing with pwBPD is that what they believe can change by the moment.  Their ability to consistently turn their stated beliefs into consistent... .relationship building action is quite limited.

As well all know... .it's frustrating (to put it mildly)

I would encourage you to continue to think through the roll of your faith in your life, your marriage... .and your wife's life.  I would encourage you to reach out to your faith to "improve" your relationship... .I would stay away from terms like "fix". 

I decided that it was not my job to "save my wife" from the inconsistencies in her beliefs.  I shouldn't persecute her either.

Practically speaking that means that if she uses faith to "get" me... .and it ends up boxing her into an uncomfortable position... .that's her problem to solve... .not mine. 

I am under no illusions that faith will "fix" my wife... .but I think it can be one of many different things that may take us a step in the right direction.

FF

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