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How to communicate after a contentious divorce... Following a contentious divorce and custody battle, there are often high emotion and tensions between the parents. Research shows that constant and chronic conflict between the parents negatively impacts the children. The children sense their parents anxiety in their voice, their body language and their parents behavior. Here are some suggestions from Dean Stacer on how to avoid conflict.
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« on: February 15, 2017, 09:06:55 AM »

This thread is a continuation... .

I finally got to read the post by the other woman that had upset her.  And I can see why it upset her so much, it is not all about us, but there are several lines where she makes derogatory statements which are likely about my gf.  We talked and I validated her feelings, which helped greatly.  I know in the past this has been an issue, something is posted and she reads it, believes it to be about her or me, and I am dismissive bc I don't see it that way.  She would like me to address this and I have agreed to.  I want this issue over once and for all.  I don't want to get back together and in a month have her read something and start all over.  This has been and issue since this started, I failed to address it at a satisfactory level with her, and it continues to eat away at our relationship.  I realize that this doesn't solve anything, but I feel like if I can accomplish this then, I have a valid argument for  getting rid of the other guy.  And honestly this bothers me on a personal level that this OW continues to write untrue things and be mean spirited about my GF
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« Reply #1 on: February 15, 2017, 10:51:31 AM »

What did she (OW) write?

This has been and issue since this started, I failed to address it at a satisfactory level with her, and it continues to eat away at our relationship.  I realize that this doesn't solve anything, but I feel like if I can accomplish this then, I have a valid argument for  getting rid of the other guy.

You are thinking that:

a) the reason that she is still involved/intimate with boyfriend1 and blocks efforts for you to spend face time with her is primarily a function of her hurt that you had a brief cyber-relationship with another women (OW) during a breakup that your girlfriend initiated, and

b) if you say the right words, this hurt will be resolved and she will then evict boyfriend1 from the love triangle, and

c) you will be able to develop a meaningful relationship with her where you can see each other.

Is this the plan that keeps "not working"?  :)idn't the problems with the other boyfriend start from the very beginning - even when your relationship with her was at it's peak?
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« Reply #2 on: February 15, 2017, 11:06:28 AM »

yes thats the plan.  Like I said  I know that fixing the issue with the other woman doesnt solve the old bf problem... .yes they started before the ow incident... .but I need her on board with me to fix this old bf problem and any time I bring it up she throws this at me... .right or wrong trying to fix one problem at a time
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« Reply #3 on: February 15, 2017, 11:43:43 AM »

Didn't you just cut off the OW when she asked you to?
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« Reply #4 on: February 15, 2017, 11:48:47 AM »

I explained to the ow that I was going to try and fix things with my gf... .as far as I could tell she was fine with that.  the problem is the stuff she writes may or may not be about me... .my gf believes it is, and she believes it is bc I and the ow parted peacfully and I was never direct enough to ensure there was no going back
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« Reply #5 on: February 15, 2017, 12:42:16 PM »

Resolving things to your GF's satisfaction regarding the OW isn't going to solve anything.

Nothing you do with the OW is causing your GF's feelings or actions. It is the other way around. Your GF has her own feelings and needs, and they are driving her to find some way to push you away, and blaming the OW works for that.

No matter what you do, if she needs to push you away, she will find a way.
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« Reply #6 on: February 15, 2017, 03:20:16 PM »

GK,

Well if that's the case what do I do to resolve her issue of pushing me away?  Because the OW hasnt been an issue until this last post came up, in her words it brings back all her trust issues with me.
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« Reply #7 on: February 15, 2017, 04:26:16 PM »

Once', are you confusing a "problem to be solved" with an "excuse to keep you at arms length". Be careful not to confuse these. She has created a series of issues that look more like excuses than problems to solve.

Do you agree with this?

Well if that's the case what do I do to resolve her issue of pushing me away?  

She is asking you to stay out of the space she has reserved for boyfriend 1 who she is still spending time with. She has made it very clear that she wants to spend time with him and wants you to accept this. You know he is telling her he loves her and to get rid of you. You know that she finds one excuse after another for why you shouldn't see you or makes plans and cancels them.

Isn't this correct?

Do you think anything you say or do to your ex-girlfriend is going to change how she feels about boyfriend 1?

Do you think if you have your daughter move-in with her mother, it will cause her to end it with boyfriend 1 and embrace you?

Do you think if your had to move to her town (e.g., required work transfer) that it would cause her to tell boyfriend 1 to go away?

"Problem to be solved" with an "excuse to keep you at arms length". Which do you think this is?
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« Reply #8 on: February 15, 2017, 05:18:51 PM »

what do I do to resolve her issue of pushing me away?

If she wants to push you away, you cannot do anything to stop her.

I only see three three choices:

1. Pressure her, which will cause her to push harder, doing things that are more hurtful in order to finally succeed at pushing you away. [Hint: this is a really bad idea!]

2. Keep your distance, and wait out the cycle; most likely she will decide to pull you back later.

3. Decide you've had enough of these mixed messages and push-pull games, and stay away instead.
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« Reply #9 on: February 16, 2017, 09:27:49 AM »

GK


We have continued to talk and I hope that we have finally put this ow issue behind us.  She also recognizes that her spending time with her friend ks detrimental to our relationship.  She has asked for a little space and I told her that was fine.  She said she needs to think about what she wants and figure that out for herself.  She wants to get together soon and talk about us and our future.

she has these moments where she is very aware thay she cannont maintain friendships/relationships with both men.  I think he and I are both at our wits ends on this.
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« Reply #10 on: February 16, 2017, 02:26:35 PM »

Give her a couple hours and she will change everything.  She was ready to give us a chance last night, even cancelled her plans with him until we could meet and talk... .I text her this morning she says she is busy... .reply text me later... .Dont hear back wait a couple hrs... .now we are over bc  I ruined her day... .and I have ruined our r/s... .tired of this... .nothing is ever enough... .
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« Reply #11 on: February 16, 2017, 03:33:41 PM »

"Problem to be solved" or an "excuse to keep you at arms length". Which do you think this is?

?
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« Reply #12 on: February 16, 2017, 04:54:46 PM »

arms length... .often wonder if its some twisted test.  she always talks about taking time apart... .mentioned taking care of some personal issues and if I was still around when she figured it out trying again then.

Is a r/s with this friend what she wants?  He loves her but she doesn't love him... .she always says if you aren't in love with someone they cant hurt you
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« Reply #13 on: February 16, 2017, 06:15:33 PM »

Is a r/s with this friend what she wants?

YES, IT IS. If she didn't want a r/s with him, she wouldn't be doing what she's doing!

Excerpt
He loves her but she doesn't love him... .she always says if you aren't in love with someone they cant hurt you

Do you think she tells him the same thing she tells you--that she truly loves you, and she doesn't love him?

I'm guessing he gets a very different story from her.

Even if she tells him this, I'm CERTAIN he doesn't believe her. Why? Because if he truly believed the words she tells you, that she wants to be in a r/s with you, and doesn't love him, he would give up and stop chasing after her!

Then again, why would he believe her words? They don't match her actions with him either, I'm sure... .he is probably as confused as you are by her.
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« Reply #14 on: February 16, 2017, 08:41:16 PM »

I am sure he is confused... .he has to be.

She tells me how she doesnt want to use him... .but she feels as long as she is upfront about her intentions then she isn't using him... .of course that is her answer to everything... .telling the truth absolves her of any responsibility.   I refuse to play yhis game any longer... .I won't be in a partial r/s with her... .I wont share her with another man.
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« Reply #15 on: February 17, 2017, 05:57:15 AM »


  I refuse to play yhis game any longer... .I won't be in a partial r/s with her... .I wont share her with another man.

This will be hard but you really need to hold on to this thought. I ended my r/s because she had cheated but said we could date again but she wanted to see other people. I wouldn't be able to cope with that so I ended it. In moments of doubt I have to keep reminding myself of these values but they are incredibly important to me.
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« Reply #16 on: February 17, 2017, 07:53:42 AM »

what she has stated she wants lately is to be able to hang out with this guy, have a casual r/s with him bc he is convenient, same town.  But maintain a friendship with me and "see what happens". This allows her to get love and emotional support from me an keep her distance (avoiding engulfment)  and have a casual physical r/s with him and avoid abandonment. 

atleast this is how I view it.
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« Reply #17 on: February 17, 2017, 08:26:39 AM »

at least this is how I view it.

Oncebitten, don't pathologize this part. She wants to date casually and not exclusively. She is upfront about it.

You wanted to move there. She said don't do that, telling you that you would get resentful for making that level of sacrifice for the type relationship she was willing to give you. That is a respectful thing to do. Besides, she is already dealing with this with the other guy.

There have been times in many of our lives when we casually dated. There are also times when we are only interested in a serious and committed relationship.  There are times we are casually dating and it changes to a serious and committed relationship.

Your's is a case of equal but conflicting values right now. That is how I might view it.
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« Reply #18 on: February 17, 2017, 08:46:58 AM »

You are right, no need to dwell on it or even try an figure it out.  She has said what she has said and that's it.  She said the other day we could be friends, mentioned how that was always the really important part to her.  That's what the other guy always was, always took the path of friends with her, no matter what he wanted.  I guess that's ok for him, honestly right now not sure I can do that.  

Not sure what to do now, my gut tells me she will reach back out soon.  She has never wanted me to get to far away, doesn't want to give up that attachment... .but I really don't know that I want her too.  I love her and want to be with her, but I am not the sharing type... .it will eat at me.
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« Reply #19 on: February 17, 2017, 09:00:23 AM »

but I am not the sharing type... .it will eat at me.

This is a really positive step forward for you, you need to hold onto that. It will help you through this next stage. Stay strong and believe in your values.
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« Reply #20 on: February 17, 2017, 01:45:27 PM »

Some people want an exclusive relationship.

Some people want to date openly or have a non-exclusive relationship.

Or even the same person at different points in their life. I don't see either of them as wrong, although they clearly cause a lot of conflict when two people want to be in a relationship together, and disagree about this.

As Skip said, you are confused and uncomfortable with where you stand on this, and how much you are willing to compromise about it. Try to figure out what really matches your values and your needs.

And then look at what kind of r/s you can have with her, and decide whether it is worth it or not.

She's proved that she cannot actually make that kind of exclusive commitment to you and stick with it. She has said she would if she had to, and she may even believe that... .but her actions seem to show she won't be able to stick with it.

I don't count breaking up with you, having a fling with the other guy then being willing to reconnect with you afterwords as sticking with it. No, it isn't really cheating, I'll give her that... .but it also isn't the kind of exclusive commitment you want. (Personally, I'd be OK with accepting non-exclusivity, and would hate that... .but what works for me may not work for you)
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« Reply #21 on: February 19, 2017, 11:34:31 AM »

GK


So do I call her bluff and walk away?  She wants to maintain a friendship she says... .she said this the other day... .said we should just be friends for a while and see what happens.  She has said this before . And I have always gotten the sense that its a bizarre loyalty test... .that and honesty are the most important things to her.  She believes that last summer when she broke up with me and I talked to the OW I was disloyal and dishonest.  She brought it up last night and we are just friends now as she says.   For someone who isnt in a r/s with me she still wants to treat me like we are.
I told her that I wasnt going to listen to her hurt and anger over that subject anymore.  She reminded me that I had told her I would have that talk as many times as she needed.  I said yes, for thr sake of our r/s I would... .but since we are now just friends that I wasn't having that talk anymore.

Pissed her off to no end but I feel like that was a god boundary.  I have been willing to talk about it to move the r/s forward and validate her feelings... .but not in the mood to berated for something that should have been forgiven by now with a woman who basically dumped me.
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« Reply #22 on: February 19, 2017, 02:56:19 PM »

She wants to maintain a friendship she says... .she said this the other day... .said we should just be friends for a while and see what happens.  She has said this before .
Excerpt
For someone who isnt in a r/s with me she still wants to treat me like we are.

You are getting mixed messages. Still. Give 98% of the weight to what she DOES and 2% to what she SAYS.

She has said she would choose you over the other guy. Her actions say she wants to keep you both around.

She has said she wants to be in more of a r/s with you. Other times she has said she wants to be friends or thinks you are friends.

Her actions seem to be the same either way--she is keeping you involved in ways that are more than just a friend.

I suggest you not pay too much attention to what labels she puts on it, and ask yourself what you think of the kind of relationship she is providing with you instead--it has been pretty consistent, with push-pull games and this other guy in a triangle. Accept that she isn't going to change from this, or won't be able to maintain that change.

You can continue as you are, or move away. You may WISH you had other options, but I don't see them.
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« Reply #23 on: February 19, 2017, 03:16:04 PM »

well lets see... .she still takes my calls, replies to texts... .wants me to come see her... .tells me she loves me, expects me to tell her the same.

Doesnt sound like a woman that is completely done with the idea of being with me.

This just friends thing started when she saw the post by the other woman.  Messaged the ow and she thinks I am crazy for thinking its about me.
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« Reply #24 on: February 19, 2017, 03:57:27 PM »

Doesnt sound like a woman that is completely done with the idea of being with me.

OB, please read through these threads and the posts carefully. I don't think the message is that she is done with the idea of being with you. She isn't done with this, she just wants it her way- keeping you at a distance, professing your longing for her. She also doesn't seem to be done with the other guy, possibly in a similar position as you.

Why should she be done with two guys longing to be with her? If she's enjoying this, which it seems she is or she would stop, why should she be done with you as long as you are willing to continue this longing for her?

I am sorry if this sounds harsh, and it has been pointed out, that the problem isn't in what she wants or what you want- it is that each of you seem to want a different kind of relationship. You want to be exclusive, not share her, and she wants to be with both guys. Both of these are valid dating choices. The problem is that you want her to change and she seems to want to keep doing what she is doing at the moment.
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« Reply #25 on: February 19, 2017, 05:14:33 PM »

she keeps saying... .lets just be friends and whatever happens, happens.  She has said this before.  She says if we come back together great, and if we dont and are left with just a friendship then thay is great too.

She has this thing about people who stick around... .time counts for a lot with her.
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« Reply #26 on: February 19, 2017, 06:34:57 PM »

Time counts a lot for her-

OB- it seems you want to give this as much time as she allows.

She wants what she wants- -and you are willing to do what she wants.

The only problem I can see here is that it seems that you are experiencing a lot of emotional pain in this relationship. Seems she is honest about how she wants this- casual with no promises about the direction the relationship might take. Ok together, Ok as friends. Ok as either is casual.

What are your options? Accept it as it is, hope for something more- indefinitely? These are the terms she's set.
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« Reply #27 on: February 19, 2017, 06:43:09 PM »

NW

Am I being led on be thinking we have a chance at a long term serious relationship?  Initially thats all she wanted, a month ago she was looking at places to get married. 
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« Reply #28 on: February 19, 2017, 07:14:59 PM »

I have no idea, OB. Honestly, I can see you are in a lot of pain over her, and I am sorry that it is so difficult.

I tend to let actions speak for themselves, no matter what the words say. I don't have BPD, but if I really wanted a serious relationship with a guy, and he wanted it too, and expressed desire to see me more often- I would go for it and take the next step- date him exclusively.

And if I wanted to date casually, I would let him know that, and continue to see who I want.

I can't speak for your GF, but I like how Maya Angelou says it " when someone shows you who they are- believe them"
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« Reply #29 on: February 20, 2017, 12:22:35 AM »

Am I being led on be thinking we have a chance at a long term serious relationship?  Initially thats all she wanted, a month ago she was looking at places to get married. 

I think it has potential to be long-term, if you want it.

I'm wondering what you mean by the "serious relationship" part.

If you mean doing exactly what she's been doing with you and her other guy, keeping at least an emotional connection with both of you, and also keeping distance at times, and giving perplexing mixed messages... .

... .then yes, there is a lot of potential for that too.

As much of it as you can take.

If by "serious long term relationship" you mean something where the two of you are exclusive, consistent, and there aren't affairs or at least emotional affairs... .where you aren't pushed away for a breakup so she has an excuse to physically hook up with her other guy... .

Well, she's been showing you she isn't capable of that. I wouldn't expect her to change.
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« Reply #30 on: February 20, 2017, 08:13:35 AM »

All,


when her and I are not in a relationship, when we are apart or just friends... .I feel depressed and have major bouts of anxiety... .

DO I NEED TO BE WITH THIS WOMAN OR TRY AND GET AWAY FROM HER?

Talking with a T but just started with a new one... .so getting up to speed
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« Reply #31 on: February 20, 2017, 09:37:34 AM »

OB--I can't answer what you should do. 

But to stress that you do have non-miserable choices, I can say that if you were not "together" there is a healing path that eventually will resolve the anxiety and depression. Those feelings are coming from complex sources that probably don't have much to do with love. The dynamic you're caught in involves intermittent reinforcement, flooding of happiness-inducing brain chemicals followed by cutting those off producing a craving for more. When she frames the problem as you needing to prove yourself a trustworthy partner or [substitute other hoop], that likely clicks into some deep seated idea you have that you need to perform to get or keep love. There are undoubtedly other aspects (I'm not a psychologist, just have read and lived this stuff for a long time).

It's said on here a lot but it really can function just like any other addiction. If you choose to stop using the addictive substance, it's going to feel really bad for some time. If you look at that bad feeling as evidence for what you should do, it's not going to encourage you to stop using, because the feeling sucks so much! I believe Meili had some important posts on the old Personal Inventory board about how for a while he was continuing with his ex because it allowed him to avoid having to go through the rotten feelings. It makes sense. It just doesn't necessarily allow for progress and growth.

If you decide you want to end reliance on something destructive and addictive, your conscious mind has to commit to overriding those feelings and impulses for a good long time.

There are exposure triggers and other environmental and behavioral choices that make it easier or harder.

I completely relate to the depression and anxiety without her. I can also report that it can shift if you commit to healing. It hasn't been easy for me--I've done a ton of trauma therapy and have a better idea now why this dynamic was so tough for me, why it did so much damage; and I committed to white knuckling it for as long as it takes. Your story for why this hooks you is probably different from mine and your healing path is also likely different, but my point is that those feelings that you know will come if you aren't actively "in a relationship" with her are survivable. Don't let them dictate your choices.
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« Reply #32 on: February 20, 2017, 11:53:02 AM »

PNC


I understand what you are saying... .just wonder sometimes what is wrong with me... .most likely some deep seeded issue of my own... .tried to talk to her this morning about us... .got the just friends thing, and how I had done nothing but wrong and had never addressed anything.   essentially offered to fix everything right now and all I got was too little to late... .I heard that a month after all this happened... .I really feel like she just wants to lord this over my head... .she can't forgive me bc that would inconvenience her use of guilt
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« Reply #33 on: February 20, 2017, 01:15:34 PM »

when her and I are not in a relationship, when we are apart or just friends... .I feel depressed and have major bouts of anxiety... .

DO I NEED TO BE WITH THIS WOMAN OR TRY AND GET AWAY FROM HER?

What you need is radical acceptance of her as she is so you can make your own choice. You (emotionally, at least) want there to be three choices:

  • Get away from her
  • Be in a r/s with her, knowing she will push you away then pull you back and stay connected with her other "friend"
  • Do some magical thing so you can have the magical relationship with an ideal version of her (which doesn't exist) who won't put you through this.

As long as you think the third choice is possible, you really really really don't want to accept the one of the first two which is right for you.
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« Reply #34 on: February 21, 2017, 01:52:01 PM »

come see me... .dont come see me... .I love you... .I hate you... .don't ever leave me... I dont even want to know you exist... .please be my friend


all in the past week... .this woman is causing me to loose my sanity
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« Reply #35 on: February 21, 2017, 02:09:15 PM »

OB, I am going to echo the addiction model. This up and down emotional roller coaster produces neurotransmitters up/down in your brain that mimic drugs.

You say you love this woman, but I am going to propose something else ( beyond your feelings for her which I believe are genuine). When you feel the anxiety of withdrawal- you go for her for the next fix, the next relief from the bad feelings, the high of being in love- and then, the crash as it lets down again.

She also must get something out of this- the stringing two guys along. I am sure it is ego reinforcing for her- this guy is so into me. Now, does that sound like love to you? Love is wanting the best for someone else, not the feel good high in the moment and that goes for both of you.

I believe you when you say you love her, but IMHO, you are addicted to her. Like any addiction, people have no control over it- the addiction is a powerful thing. Examples abound of people who lose their sanity, their health, their family because of addictions.

Sometimes the only hope is when someone hits bottom. Not sure if you have hit that yet. But the way out of this is to look at your situation like an addiction and seek help and support. 12 step groups can help with this but only with commitment- meetings, a sponsor, working the steps- the whole 9 yards. There are other programs I am sure, but I am only familiar with 12 steps.

There is help- and hope- and support- for you to regain your sanity- at your local co-dependency 12 step groups, possibly other resources in your area. l hope you will consider reaching out to them.
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« Reply #36 on: February 21, 2017, 04:09:17 PM »

NW

Its an addiction, full blown one.  Not sure what she gets out of it... .I suppose a lot... .much younger man doing everything in his power to win her love... .and for what... .so I can be berated for months for a couple of phone calls placed to a woman I met online... .makes no sense... .but yes its an addiction... .I honestly feel better when she is yelling at me and in a full blown rage than not speaking to me... .she told me again today she is done... .we have no future... .I had a panic attack asked her to talk to me until it was over... .got a list of my wrongs and then she hung up... .apparently I am the worst man alive.
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« Reply #37 on: February 21, 2017, 04:16:29 PM »

When I think back the whole thing is ridiculous... .3 weeks ago according to her, we were twin flames and she was looking at places to get married.   Today we can only be friends and she is doing me a favor at that.  All reset to this summer bc of a poem that may or may not be about me and her.  sigh... .so much wasted love, energy, health... .tried to give her absolutely everything... .its never been enough... .it will never be enough
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« Reply #38 on: February 21, 2017, 05:31:21 PM »

... .Today we can only be friends and she is doing me a favor at that... .

Does the "friendship" you are experiencing today feel like a favor or a gift to you?

Is all this self-doubt and confusion really making you feel good?
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« Reply #39 on: February 22, 2017, 06:56:35 AM »

GK

God no... .sorry I was being sarcastic... .her friendship is not a gift... .she just wants to either keep me around for supply or keep tabs on me
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« Reply #40 on: February 22, 2017, 09:15:55 AM »

... .she just wants to either keep me around for supply or keep tabs on me... .

Once', I'd really encourage you not to go down the path of putting this all on her. See this for what it is and learn from it.

She was in a relationship with another guy, they had a serious falling out, she got involved with you before the other relationship was over. She really liked you, but she had unfinished business/history with the other guy (both had an investment in that relationship) and it created a love triangle that she struggled with.

You fell for a girl who seemed crazy about you (you didn't realize that she was rebounding) and then she inexplicably started pulling back. You couldn't understand that the shift in the behavior vs the feeling she expressed was related to the rebound, so you assumed it was something you were doing and you did your best to make changes to improve the relationship. Being the third party in a rebound in killer, because you are in a play but only seeing part of the script. The third party often gets emotionally crushed.

This got really messy when she discovered that both men would tacitly accept the other man as an "obstacle to be overcome" rather than a deal breaker and she could play it out for a little while to see what was best for her. Here is where everyone kicked their values (and boundaries) to the curb.

This got even messier when you over-pursued and started to be needy/clingy. Over-pursuing and needy/clingy are not attractive - it works against you. You assumed that the ups and downs had to do with you and her, but there has been a larger script playing out and her relationship with him had a lot to do with the ups and downs.

You can't win in these things. Typically what happens is the triad is unsustainable and the relationship drops back to two. That relationship fails in time (because the problems are still there) and the other pairing might pick up. If it does, it also has a high likelihood of eventual failure because it was only ever an "additive" relationship to the other.

If you want to have a shot at making this go (against the odds), the smartest thing you can do is to do a "no-fault" back up - "Hey, I understand. Friends is cool." - and act strong / desirable and more and more unavailable, and wait - month, 3 month, 6 months... .

You have heard this from many members in many different ways.

Once anyone experiences a rebound relationship or affair, they will typically screen every future relationship to avoid entering into such a no-win heartbreaking thing again.

This, is not a BPD thing. This happens all the time. It's human nature. Often it happens in failing marriages. It's innocent enough when it starts, and then... .

Boom.
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« Reply #41 on: February 22, 2017, 04:31:06 PM »

OB,

I have recently removed myself from a triangulation situation. It does not get better, I can assure of that. I was lied to about marriage, having children, living together for close to a year and a half. My ex used these tools to string me along, but when it came time for her to move out of her ex's house (I use that term loosely because they are still actually together) she wouldn't follow through. It was excuse after excuse. I was the side guy, but lead to believe I was in a monogamous relationship with her. There are several times she treated our relationship as if we were together, while actually being in a full blown marriage. I didn't know this at the time, but even though things seemed strange, I hung on out of love. There were many times I had the opportunity to leave and not look back. I wish I had. The cycles of breaking up and making up developed a very real trauma bond for me. I have never had mental health issues, but just recently was diagnosed with PTSD and anxiety because I have lived in such a heightened state for so long. I encourage you to walk away from this. It's hard, but if you don't you are only going to make it harder on yourself.  Don't allow yourself to be the third wheel anymore. "When people show you who they are, believe them."  Someone told me this about 8 months ago, but I kept giving my ex the benefit of the doubt. It was not worth it, believe me. And I'm the end, I was left emotionally destroyed, as well as her and her husband. This is a dangerous game to be a part of, my friend. BPD or not. Please put yourself first.
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« Reply #42 on: February 22, 2017, 05:00:08 PM »

She reminded me that I had told her I would have that talk as many times as she needed.  

I'm a bit late to the thread.  Lots of good questions, ideas, and ways to look at things have been presented.

I have a couple quick reactions.  

It appears that OB is really into analyzing EVERY INTERACTION to figure out what it means for the potential of a long term r/s (of some sort).

I believe that rather than getting mixed up in tactics (the minutiae), it would help you to think strategically for a few days or a week, and then decide how to (or not to) engage her in the future.

What we know

1.  She will give you lots of mixed signals... .therefore... .it is doubly important that you sort yourself out and not send her mixed signals. (see the quote above)  I can easily see how this "rocked her world".

2.  She IS consistently sending you a message that the other guy is in her life and she wants you at a distance that she controls.  If you are fundamentally... .at a core level... not OK with this type of relationship, then you should... .?  (only you can answer this)

Wishing you the best as you sort through this... .

FF

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« Reply #43 on: March 02, 2017, 09:02:08 AM »

New day same story... .everything great, she tells me she needs more, I try and have talk about how we can have more she gets upset... .says she needs breather we dont talk for a day... .tex her tell her good morning, she says she needs to talk to me... .she calls asks how I am, I say ok, she asks whats wrong I say nothing, make some quip about mornings... .she goes from normal to ballistic in about a min flat... .says she will just talk to me another time bc right now I am giving her attitude.  I assure her that I am fine and not pissy and that I am not trying to give her attitude and if thats what came I out then i was sorry... .she gets mad says goodbye and then proceeds to text me about how I would not be ruining her day to day and she was done with my BS... .

Not sure what I did other than I was not just super cheery... .the last we talked we had a fight and she refused to talk to me for a day so... .yeah still a little down, I guess she cant wrap her head around the fact that my emotions last longer than hers do.
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« Reply #44 on: March 02, 2017, 01:54:28 PM »

says she will just talk to me another time bc right now I am giving her attitude.  I assure her that I am fine and not pissy and that I am not trying to give her attitude and if thats what came I out then i was sorry... .

JADE alert... .

You need to "take charge" and let her react to you... .vice the other way around.

There will be some trial and error... .

Stop invalidating... .(explaining to her that you are not experiencing what she thinks you are experiencing... .is INVALIDATING to her)

My gut says that validation is NOT going to work because of her rapid shifts... .you could try... .or you could try briefly being empathetic and listening... .vice defending.

example

her:  You are giving me attitude...

you:  Oh my goodness... .what a thing to say!  I'd like to listen to your concern...   Practice this... .there should be some shock... .going to concern.

Do NOT answer her... you are the listener...

How do you think this would go?

Make sure and end conversation on your terms.  "Babe... this sounds really important to YOU.  Can we find time after I get home to talk further.  I've got to go now... "  end call

FF
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« Reply #45 on: March 02, 2017, 04:20:40 PM »

FF

What it amounts too is that her behavior towards me has me in a depressed state... .she knows this nut rather than be accountable for that and try and comfort me... .she lashes out at me for being depressed. Gets angry bc I am bringing her down... if its the other way around then she expects me to do everything to cheer her up... .essentially I am not allowed to have a bad day
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« Reply #46 on: March 02, 2017, 07:20:31 PM »

she expects me to do everything to cheer her up... .essentially I am not allowed to have a bad day

Yep... .I see the same thing in my wife.

Please don't ever expect to change HER expectations. 

Do your part... .for a time that YOU determine.  End that on your terms, hopefully with a promise to return to the subject later. 

Don't go round and round about "why" you have to go... .announce it... .assure her you will be back... .go.

Thing bigger picture:  It's about the attitude that you carry... .knowing that she will carry a bad one...

FF
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« Reply #47 on: March 02, 2017, 07:23:32 PM »

FF

What it amounts too is that her behavior towards me has me in a depressed state... .s

   

Wanted to handle this separately. 

First... .the virtual hug... .because I've been there... .we've all been there.  When we needed someone to pick us up... .and they kicked us in the Jimmy... .

That being said... .this is another reason to DO the relationship on your terms... .your time limits. 

If her behavior depresses you (and I'm sure it does... .!)... .then limit the amount of time you spend around that behavior.

Even better if you take the extra time and spend it on you.  Go get a nice burger or something... .just for you.

FF

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« Reply #48 on: March 03, 2017, 07:20:37 AM »

FF

thank you for the support, yes I know that at times I have to step back from her... .which is hard bc when she hurts I want to help her... .the worst is realizing that when I hurt... .truly hurt she may not be there for me
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« Reply #49 on: March 03, 2017, 07:31:59 AM »

FF

thank you for the support, yes I know that at times I have to step back from her... .which is hard bc when she hurts I want to help her... .the worst is realizing that when I hurt... .truly hurt she may not be there for me


A bit of a re-write... .try this on for "new" mindset.

"Yes I know at some times I have to decide to spend my time elsewhere, assuring her I will come back to her when I am able... ."

Just because you are taking care of another priority does NOT mean you are "stepping back" from her.

Big point of wisdom...

"When she hurts, I will encourage her... believe in her... .and let her solve her own hurts... "

FF
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« Reply #50 on: May 08, 2017, 11:18:56 PM »

Staff only

This topic had reached its post limit. The discussion is continued here:

https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=309623.0
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