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Author Topic: Im ready to learn the tools V  (Read 784 times)
Oncebitten
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« on: February 15, 2017, 09:06:55 AM »

This thread is a continuation... .

I finally got to read the post by the other woman that had upset her.  And I can see why it upset her so much, it is not all about us, but there are several lines where she makes derogatory statements which are likely about my gf.  We talked and I validated her feelings, which helped greatly.  I know in the past this has been an issue, something is posted and she reads it, believes it to be about her or me, and I am dismissive bc I don't see it that way.  She would like me to address this and I have agreed to.  I want this issue over once and for all.  I don't want to get back together and in a month have her read something and start all over.  This has been and issue since this started, I failed to address it at a satisfactory level with her, and it continues to eat away at our relationship.  I realize that this doesn't solve anything, but I feel like if I can accomplish this then, I have a valid argument for  getting rid of the other guy.  And honestly this bothers me on a personal level that this OW continues to write untrue things and be mean spirited about my GF
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« Reply #1 on: February 15, 2017, 10:51:31 AM »

What did she (OW) write?

This has been and issue since this started, I failed to address it at a satisfactory level with her, and it continues to eat away at our relationship.  I realize that this doesn't solve anything, but I feel like if I can accomplish this then, I have a valid argument for  getting rid of the other guy.

You are thinking that:

a) the reason that she is still involved/intimate with boyfriend1 and blocks efforts for you to spend face time with her is primarily a function of her hurt that you had a brief cyber-relationship with another women (OW) during a breakup that your girlfriend initiated, and

b) if you say the right words, this hurt will be resolved and she will then evict boyfriend1 from the love triangle, and

c) you will be able to develop a meaningful relationship with her where you can see each other.

Is this the plan that keeps "not working"?  :)idn't the problems with the other boyfriend start from the very beginning - even when your relationship with her was at it's peak?
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« Reply #2 on: February 15, 2017, 11:06:28 AM »

yes thats the plan.  Like I said  I know that fixing the issue with the other woman doesnt solve the old bf problem... .yes they started before the ow incident... .but I need her on board with me to fix this old bf problem and any time I bring it up she throws this at me... .right or wrong trying to fix one problem at a time
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« Reply #3 on: February 15, 2017, 11:43:43 AM »

Didn't you just cut off the OW when she asked you to?
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« Reply #4 on: February 15, 2017, 11:48:47 AM »

I explained to the ow that I was going to try and fix things with my gf... .as far as I could tell she was fine with that.  the problem is the stuff she writes may or may not be about me... .my gf believes it is, and she believes it is bc I and the ow parted peacfully and I was never direct enough to ensure there was no going back
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« Reply #5 on: February 15, 2017, 12:42:16 PM »

Resolving things to your GF's satisfaction regarding the OW isn't going to solve anything.

Nothing you do with the OW is causing your GF's feelings or actions. It is the other way around. Your GF has her own feelings and needs, and they are driving her to find some way to push you away, and blaming the OW works for that.

No matter what you do, if she needs to push you away, she will find a way.
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« Reply #6 on: February 15, 2017, 03:20:16 PM »

GK,

Well if that's the case what do I do to resolve her issue of pushing me away?  Because the OW hasnt been an issue until this last post came up, in her words it brings back all her trust issues with me.
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« Reply #7 on: February 15, 2017, 04:26:16 PM »

Once', are you confusing a "problem to be solved" with an "excuse to keep you at arms length". Be careful not to confuse these. She has created a series of issues that look more like excuses than problems to solve.

Do you agree with this?

Well if that's the case what do I do to resolve her issue of pushing me away?  

She is asking you to stay out of the space she has reserved for boyfriend 1 who she is still spending time with. She has made it very clear that she wants to spend time with him and wants you to accept this. You know he is telling her he loves her and to get rid of you. You know that she finds one excuse after another for why you shouldn't see you or makes plans and cancels them.

Isn't this correct?

Do you think anything you say or do to your ex-girlfriend is going to change how she feels about boyfriend 1?

Do you think if you have your daughter move-in with her mother, it will cause her to end it with boyfriend 1 and embrace you?

Do you think if your had to move to her town (e.g., required work transfer) that it would cause her to tell boyfriend 1 to go away?

"Problem to be solved" with an "excuse to keep you at arms length". Which do you think this is?
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« Reply #8 on: February 15, 2017, 05:18:51 PM »

what do I do to resolve her issue of pushing me away?

If she wants to push you away, you cannot do anything to stop her.

I only see three three choices:

1. Pressure her, which will cause her to push harder, doing things that are more hurtful in order to finally succeed at pushing you away. [Hint: this is a really bad idea!]

2. Keep your distance, and wait out the cycle; most likely she will decide to pull you back later.

3. Decide you've had enough of these mixed messages and push-pull games, and stay away instead.
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« Reply #9 on: February 16, 2017, 09:27:49 AM »

GK


We have continued to talk and I hope that we have finally put this ow issue behind us.  She also recognizes that her spending time with her friend ks detrimental to our relationship.  She has asked for a little space and I told her that was fine.  She said she needs to think about what she wants and figure that out for herself.  She wants to get together soon and talk about us and our future.

she has these moments where she is very aware thay she cannont maintain friendships/relationships with both men.  I think he and I are both at our wits ends on this.
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« Reply #10 on: February 16, 2017, 02:26:35 PM »

Give her a couple hours and she will change everything.  She was ready to give us a chance last night, even cancelled her plans with him until we could meet and talk... .I text her this morning she says she is busy... .reply text me later... .Dont hear back wait a couple hrs... .now we are over bc  I ruined her day... .and I have ruined our r/s... .tired of this... .nothing is ever enough... .
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« Reply #11 on: February 16, 2017, 03:33:41 PM »

"Problem to be solved" or an "excuse to keep you at arms length". Which do you think this is?

?
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« Reply #12 on: February 16, 2017, 04:54:46 PM »

arms length... .often wonder if its some twisted test.  she always talks about taking time apart... .mentioned taking care of some personal issues and if I was still around when she figured it out trying again then.

Is a r/s with this friend what she wants?  He loves her but she doesn't love him... .she always says if you aren't in love with someone they cant hurt you
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« Reply #13 on: February 16, 2017, 06:15:33 PM »

Is a r/s with this friend what she wants?

YES, IT IS. If she didn't want a r/s with him, she wouldn't be doing what she's doing!

Excerpt
He loves her but she doesn't love him... .she always says if you aren't in love with someone they cant hurt you

Do you think she tells him the same thing she tells you--that she truly loves you, and she doesn't love him?

I'm guessing he gets a very different story from her.

Even if she tells him this, I'm CERTAIN he doesn't believe her. Why? Because if he truly believed the words she tells you, that she wants to be in a r/s with you, and doesn't love him, he would give up and stop chasing after her!

Then again, why would he believe her words? They don't match her actions with him either, I'm sure... .he is probably as confused as you are by her.
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« Reply #14 on: February 16, 2017, 08:41:16 PM »

I am sure he is confused... .he has to be.

She tells me how she doesnt want to use him... .but she feels as long as she is upfront about her intentions then she isn't using him... .of course that is her answer to everything... .telling the truth absolves her of any responsibility.   I refuse to play yhis game any longer... .I won't be in a partial r/s with her... .I wont share her with another man.
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« Reply #15 on: February 17, 2017, 05:57:15 AM »


  I refuse to play yhis game any longer... .I won't be in a partial r/s with her... .I wont share her with another man.

This will be hard but you really need to hold on to this thought. I ended my r/s because she had cheated but said we could date again but she wanted to see other people. I wouldn't be able to cope with that so I ended it. In moments of doubt I have to keep reminding myself of these values but they are incredibly important to me.
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« Reply #16 on: February 17, 2017, 07:53:42 AM »

what she has stated she wants lately is to be able to hang out with this guy, have a casual r/s with him bc he is convenient, same town.  But maintain a friendship with me and "see what happens". This allows her to get love and emotional support from me an keep her distance (avoiding engulfment)  and have a casual physical r/s with him and avoid abandonment. 

atleast this is how I view it.
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« Reply #17 on: February 17, 2017, 08:26:39 AM »

at least this is how I view it.

Oncebitten, don't pathologize this part. She wants to date casually and not exclusively. She is upfront about it.

You wanted to move there. She said don't do that, telling you that you would get resentful for making that level of sacrifice for the type relationship she was willing to give you. That is a respectful thing to do. Besides, she is already dealing with this with the other guy.

There have been times in many of our lives when we casually dated. There are also times when we are only interested in a serious and committed relationship.  There are times we are casually dating and it changes to a serious and committed relationship.

Your's is a case of equal but conflicting values right now. That is how I might view it.
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« Reply #18 on: February 17, 2017, 08:46:58 AM »

You are right, no need to dwell on it or even try an figure it out.  She has said what she has said and that's it.  She said the other day we could be friends, mentioned how that was always the really important part to her.  That's what the other guy always was, always took the path of friends with her, no matter what he wanted.  I guess that's ok for him, honestly right now not sure I can do that.  

Not sure what to do now, my gut tells me she will reach back out soon.  She has never wanted me to get to far away, doesn't want to give up that attachment... .but I really don't know that I want her too.  I love her and want to be with her, but I am not the sharing type... .it will eat at me.
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« Reply #19 on: February 17, 2017, 09:00:23 AM »

but I am not the sharing type... .it will eat at me.

This is a really positive step forward for you, you need to hold onto that. It will help you through this next stage. Stay strong and believe in your values.
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« Reply #20 on: February 17, 2017, 01:45:27 PM »

Some people want an exclusive relationship.

Some people want to date openly or have a non-exclusive relationship.

Or even the same person at different points in their life. I don't see either of them as wrong, although they clearly cause a lot of conflict when two people want to be in a relationship together, and disagree about this.

As Skip said, you are confused and uncomfortable with where you stand on this, and how much you are willing to compromise about it. Try to figure out what really matches your values and your needs.

And then look at what kind of r/s you can have with her, and decide whether it is worth it or not.

She's proved that she cannot actually make that kind of exclusive commitment to you and stick with it. She has said she would if she had to, and she may even believe that... .but her actions seem to show she won't be able to stick with it.

I don't count breaking up with you, having a fling with the other guy then being willing to reconnect with you afterwords as sticking with it. No, it isn't really cheating, I'll give her that... .but it also isn't the kind of exclusive commitment you want. (Personally, I'd be OK with accepting non-exclusivity, and would hate that... .but what works for me may not work for you)
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« Reply #21 on: February 19, 2017, 11:34:31 AM »

GK


So do I call her bluff and walk away?  She wants to maintain a friendship she says... .she said this the other day... .said we should just be friends for a while and see what happens.  She has said this before . And I have always gotten the sense that its a bizarre loyalty test... .that and honesty are the most important things to her.  She believes that last summer when she broke up with me and I talked to the OW I was disloyal and dishonest.  She brought it up last night and we are just friends now as she says.   For someone who isnt in a r/s with me she still wants to treat me like we are.
I told her that I wasnt going to listen to her hurt and anger over that subject anymore.  She reminded me that I had told her I would have that talk as many times as she needed.  I said yes, for thr sake of our r/s I would... .but since we are now just friends that I wasn't having that talk anymore.

Pissed her off to no end but I feel like that was a god boundary.  I have been willing to talk about it to move the r/s forward and validate her feelings... .but not in the mood to berated for something that should have been forgiven by now with a woman who basically dumped me.
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« Reply #22 on: February 19, 2017, 02:56:19 PM »

She wants to maintain a friendship she says... .she said this the other day... .said we should just be friends for a while and see what happens.  She has said this before .
Excerpt
For someone who isnt in a r/s with me she still wants to treat me like we are.

You are getting mixed messages. Still. Give 98% of the weight to what she DOES and 2% to what she SAYS.

She has said she would choose you over the other guy. Her actions say she wants to keep you both around.

She has said she wants to be in more of a r/s with you. Other times she has said she wants to be friends or thinks you are friends.

Her actions seem to be the same either way--she is keeping you involved in ways that are more than just a friend.

I suggest you not pay too much attention to what labels she puts on it, and ask yourself what you think of the kind of relationship she is providing with you instead--it has been pretty consistent, with push-pull games and this other guy in a triangle. Accept that she isn't going to change from this, or won't be able to maintain that change.

You can continue as you are, or move away. You may WISH you had other options, but I don't see them.
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« Reply #23 on: February 19, 2017, 03:16:04 PM »

well lets see... .she still takes my calls, replies to texts... .wants me to come see her... .tells me she loves me, expects me to tell her the same.

Doesnt sound like a woman that is completely done with the idea of being with me.

This just friends thing started when she saw the post by the other woman.  Messaged the ow and she thinks I am crazy for thinking its about me.
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« Reply #24 on: February 19, 2017, 03:57:27 PM »

Doesnt sound like a woman that is completely done with the idea of being with me.

OB, please read through these threads and the posts carefully. I don't think the message is that she is done with the idea of being with you. She isn't done with this, she just wants it her way- keeping you at a distance, professing your longing for her. She also doesn't seem to be done with the other guy, possibly in a similar position as you.

Why should she be done with two guys longing to be with her? If she's enjoying this, which it seems she is or she would stop, why should she be done with you as long as you are willing to continue this longing for her?

I am sorry if this sounds harsh, and it has been pointed out, that the problem isn't in what she wants or what you want- it is that each of you seem to want a different kind of relationship. You want to be exclusive, not share her, and she wants to be with both guys. Both of these are valid dating choices. The problem is that you want her to change and she seems to want to keep doing what she is doing at the moment.
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« Reply #25 on: February 19, 2017, 05:14:33 PM »

she keeps saying... .lets just be friends and whatever happens, happens.  She has said this before.  She says if we come back together great, and if we dont and are left with just a friendship then thay is great too.

She has this thing about people who stick around... .time counts for a lot with her.
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« Reply #26 on: February 19, 2017, 06:34:57 PM »

Time counts a lot for her-

OB- it seems you want to give this as much time as she allows.

She wants what she wants- -and you are willing to do what she wants.

The only problem I can see here is that it seems that you are experiencing a lot of emotional pain in this relationship. Seems she is honest about how she wants this- casual with no promises about the direction the relationship might take. Ok together, Ok as friends. Ok as either is casual.

What are your options? Accept it as it is, hope for something more- indefinitely? These are the terms she's set.
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« Reply #27 on: February 19, 2017, 06:43:09 PM »

NW

Am I being led on be thinking we have a chance at a long term serious relationship?  Initially thats all she wanted, a month ago she was looking at places to get married. 
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« Reply #28 on: February 19, 2017, 07:14:59 PM »

I have no idea, OB. Honestly, I can see you are in a lot of pain over her, and I am sorry that it is so difficult.

I tend to let actions speak for themselves, no matter what the words say. I don't have BPD, but if I really wanted a serious relationship with a guy, and he wanted it too, and expressed desire to see me more often- I would go for it and take the next step- date him exclusively.

And if I wanted to date casually, I would let him know that, and continue to see who I want.

I can't speak for your GF, but I like how Maya Angelou says it " when someone shows you who they are- believe them"
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« Reply #29 on: February 20, 2017, 12:22:35 AM »

Am I being led on be thinking we have a chance at a long term serious relationship?  Initially thats all she wanted, a month ago she was looking at places to get married. 

I think it has potential to be long-term, if you want it.

I'm wondering what you mean by the "serious relationship" part.

If you mean doing exactly what she's been doing with you and her other guy, keeping at least an emotional connection with both of you, and also keeping distance at times, and giving perplexing mixed messages... .

... .then yes, there is a lot of potential for that too.

As much of it as you can take.

If by "serious long term relationship" you mean something where the two of you are exclusive, consistent, and there aren't affairs or at least emotional affairs... .where you aren't pushed away for a breakup so she has an excuse to physically hook up with her other guy... .

Well, she's been showing you she isn't capable of that. I wouldn't expect her to change.
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