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VIDEO: "What is parental alienation?" Parental alienation is when a parent allows a child to participate or hear them degrade the other parent. This is not uncommon in divorces and the children often adjust. In severe cases, however, it can be devastating to the child. This video provides a helpful overview.
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Author Topic: Her 2nd big breakdown  (Read 394 times)
Keef
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Who in your life has "personality" issues: Ex-romantic partner
Relationship status: Separated since late November 2016.
Posts: 143


« on: February 20, 2017, 05:46:04 AM »

Hello everybody.

I'm exactly three months out, my ex discarded me on the 19th November after approx one year of confusion, guilt, good times, horrible times etc.

Apart from the flashbacks and insights and the rest that comes after such a loaded relationship there is one incident that my mind keeps returning to now and then. I need to ventilate this, it seems. I am seeing my therapist tonight but I do need response from others who have been in the same boat  Attention(click to insert in post)

This is a raw recollection of her frightening second big breakdown and the hour that led up to it, and of the night that followed.

In September I met up with my then gf in town, she'd been running errands and I'd been off for the day. We hadn't really had contact that particular day but the plan was to meet up for the afternoon. Little did I know. I called her and instantly noticed something was wrong. I found her squatting on the platform of the subway, with her headphones on, blankly staring into nothing, as if trying to make the outside world disappear. I knelt and talked to her softly, tried to get her to say what had happened. She then whispered in my ear the following harrowing words: "I feel just the way I did before I hit you" [I was physically abused by her late in the summer, that's another story which I may return to] I then tried to get her to walk with me up to the tube entry, she was reluctant at first. I kept my calm and eventually talked her into it. We stood there for a good ten minutes, me trying to make her talk to me, but she wouldn't. I then said it's best we take a taxi to my place, she had one of those days when she reacted heavily to noise, and the traffic was getting heavy at this point, it being rush hour. I stopped a taxi and we went home to my place.

So far things hadn't escalated. But I was wary. She dropped onto my bed, with her clothes and shoes on. Covered her head underneath my duvet. I took her shoes off and hoped she would get some sleep. What happened next was like turning on the tap full power. Her cat accidently pawed at her face, making her nose bleed (oh my... .why was there always this drama around her, why?). My ex then changed from exhausted to outright mad. She sat up, started spitting violently into the air, letting her saliva fall down in her own face, growling and lamenting wordlessly. Total transformation. I saw it coming on, her uncontrollable anything-can-and-will-happen-and-you-don't-stand-a-chance-behaviour.

She then threw a glass of water off from the bedside table, making it break into a thousand pieces. She started rambling in a childish voice, face distorted, trying to pick up the pieces of glass for to hurt herself. "I need to... .I want to!". She was all over the place, impossible to stop. I threw whatever clothes I could find over the shards, tried to sweep them away, but she was not having that and grew more desperate. At one point she managed clutching a piece of glass in her left hand, almost whining, in her childlike voice, "I want to know what it feels like". I forced her to get rid of it by opening her hand, and cut myself while doing it. She eventually more or less gave up her attempts and sat down on the floor, reasonable distance from the glass. Picked up a more than ripe Galia-melon and threw it across the room, making it break in half. By now the room was in a total mess. Shards, water, pieces of melon, wet cloth, a little blood, me ready to dial the emergency, her in the corner, exhausted and wild eyed... .a terrible scenario. I called her mother and tried making my ex talk to her. Bad idea. Ex started screaming, violently shouting at me, things like "xxxxx, how COULD you?". I then said to her mother that I would have to call the emergency, which I did. It felt like ages talking to them! My ex was now suddenly in the kitchen, trying to hit herself with glass bottles and whatever hard objects were around. I removed those and tried to explain in a coherent manner to the operator what had happened. I was so frightened, so sad, so full of adrenaline.

Around ten minutes later three police officers arrived. The female officer started talking to my ex while I was telling the other two, them taking notes. They sent for a psychiatric emergency car, which arrived 15 mins later.

The time was now around 7 pm. I was exhausted. My then gf sat in the sofa, hiding her face behind a pillow, more or less refusing to talk to the emergency staff, and when she did talk she spoke in that childish way, saying things like "Oh, no I am fine. We're just going to have a nice Friday evening, me, my boyfriend and the cat. We're taking it easy and going to watch a movie." I was completely devastated. I just wanted to hold her and cry my bloody heart out. After three quarters of an hour she eventually agreed on going with the emergency staff by free will, rather than having to be forced by the police. She asked me "xxxxx, what do you think? I don't know... .", and I said "It's better you go with these people instead of having to be forced, since that would only be traumatic for you". Jeez. The damage had already been done... .

I went with her to the emergency ward. She got her own room. Doctors came and went. I wasn't allowed to sit there while she was interviewed. After two-three hours they followed her to a room for the night. Collected all her belongings so that she had nothing to harm herself with.
I took a taxi home, cleaning up the worst, letting out the cat from the bathroom, it'd been shut-in all evening. Met her the next day and she of course acted more or less as if nothing had happened. And I still didn't get the chance to just hold her and talk to her, since new drama waited around the corner.

This disorder. It's grim.

Any thoughts? I just cannot fathom this experience even though I actually have started to heal some since November.

/Keef
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Keef
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Who in your life has "personality" issues: Ex-romantic partner
Relationship status: Separated since late November 2016.
Posts: 143


« Reply #1 on: February 20, 2017, 06:09:12 AM »

 Bullet: contents of text or email (click to insert in post) Edit Bullet: contents of text or email (click to insert in post)

This disorder. It's grim.
Bullet: important point (click to insert in post) The disorder. BPD... HPD... .ASPD... which ever lable we use when trying to describe/understand our ex... it doesn't really matter. It's just grim.

I guess while having made progress in detaching, a part of me is still in my bedroom with her, doing my best in trying to avoid a blood bath.

/Keef


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heartandwhole
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« Reply #2 on: February 20, 2017, 06:13:48 AM »

Keef, my heart goes out to you, and I feel very sad for your girlfriend. What a terrible experience!    I am not surprised that you sometimes have flashbacks about times like these. Seeing someone you love in such desperation is absolutely heartbreaking and extremely stress-inducing.

I didn't experience anything like that with pwBPD, but something in the same vein happened to a member of my FOO, when I was a teenager. It was excruciating. I think I have repressed a lot of my feelings around that time.

That fact that you are naming this, speaking about it, telling the truth about it, is wonderful. That is so important in healing—allowing ourselves to feel our very human vulnerability.

Have you spoken to your therapist about these incidents?

heartandwhole
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When the pain of love increases your joy, roses and lilies fill the garden of your soul.
Keef
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Relationship status: Separated since late November 2016.
Posts: 143


« Reply #3 on: February 20, 2017, 06:39:35 AM »

Thank you so much for jumping in heartandwhole

I will tell my therapist this evening, in full detail. This incident, and the previous where she directed her rage and feelings of futility towards me instead (the physical assault I mentioned) are experiences I have a hard time grasping. It's very very painful.

After sharing I proceeded to throw away two decorative birds I bought her at a flea market. They've resided on my bookshelf until now. I now have no objects in my flat connected to her. It made me break down and cry.

I think sharing the above incident with my T is vital but I'm uncomfortable with it. Like I wrote: part of me is still there. It's heartbreaking

I would be very grateful for further input. Thank you everybody.
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ynwa
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« Reply #4 on: February 20, 2017, 08:02:40 AM »

Hey there Keef,

It has got to be hard seeing those memories. Every time I see you share, I'm impressed by how you do it, honestly and positively. In this one, I again see how helpless we are to stop or subdue the disorder in our loved ones.

I want to reinforce and think this is key here. This wasn't your fault, you didn't cause it. You handled it as well as anyone would. I too have some dark memories and see them as unavoidable. The rage toward you, the feelings and actions were her only release. You did not make them happen.  Being there for her in those moments was forced upon you, and you handled it. 

Are you seeing the positive side to this? 

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Keef
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Relationship status: Separated since late November 2016.
Posts: 143


« Reply #5 on: February 20, 2017, 08:28:19 AM »

Every time I see you share, I'm impressed by how you do it, honestly and positively. In this one, I again see how helpless we are to stop or subdue the disorder in our loved ones.
Thank you ynwa. This is immensely valuable input. Yes, this is a good example of the helplessness we endure in this kind of relationship. It's like watching from a distance, trying to intervene at the same time.

This wasn't your fault, you didn't cause it. You handled it as well as anyone would.
I think I know this... it's hard to accept. Acceptance does come bit by bit, and I guess I'm not there yet, regarding this particular incident. I honestly don't know why this still haunts me. But yes, the impact on me, her, the r/s at large, was huge. It was probably a turning point.

Are you seeing the positive side to this?
Yes. And no. I did handle the situation well, as the emergency staff would point out. But it's left me hurting. Similar to how I feel about the assault earlier on.
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infjEpic
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« Reply #6 on: February 20, 2017, 09:47:40 AM »

I have several memories similar to this. Mainly they run together.

A few involved watching her smash her head repeatedly against a wooden floor or other objects - that was rage, when I refused to be gaslit.
The first few times I was in shock I suppose.
But not surprise - as she told me earlier in the relationship, that she had done this with her ex.

One that stands out was in the midst of a panic attack, she sat against a radiator and violently smashed the back of her head off of it.
This was the day before I started counselling I believe.
I think she had already cheated on me with my replacement at that stage.

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Keef
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« Reply #7 on: February 20, 2017, 10:37:00 AM »

Hey infjEpic. Sorry about that, that sounds terrible!

This was the day before I started counselling I believe.
I think she had already cheated on me with my replacement at that stage.
Say that the above is true, that the cheating had already begun. Would you say she in that case did this (the smashing against radiator) out of shame... ? Also, did she know you were starting therapy and how did she handle that? You'd have to speculate, I know...

They can't, as we know, handle their feelings, and eventually the pressure gets unbearable upon which they explode. I guess I'm still searching for specific reasons where there really aren't any. In my ex's case the accidental pawing at her nose was enough to let all pressurized hell break loose.
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Sunfl0wer
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« Reply #8 on: February 20, 2017, 12:22:34 PM »

Likely this doesn't help ya any but... .
She sounds like she was in a terrible dissociative state.
Make me wonder where she sits on the dissociative disorder spectrum.  (Fyi: according to structural dissociation, yea, BPD is included, but imho, seems a bit more)
What an awful night for you both.
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« Reply #9 on: February 20, 2017, 12:43:51 PM »

That is a very serious and heart wrenching story.  I am sorry you had to endure that as well as the previous incident where her actions were directed to you physically.

One that sticks in my mind is not nearly as traumatic sounding, but still very memorable to me as one of the very first signs of her BPD coming out 6 years ago.

It was winter in Minnesota, which is always a challenging time.  She was sleeping late, and her brother had called me saying that he was taking her niece & nephew out to go sledding, as it was a relatively nice day for winter, and wanted to know if we wanted to join them.

I said sure, we will meet you there at 2pm.

When my BPDw woke up I told her of the plan, and she completely freaked out.  Said that to make such plans was disregarding her, and that I was a horrible communicator, and that I had no respect for her opinion.

She stormed out, slamming the door, and came back home a couple of hours later acting as if everything was ok.

I was speechless. 

At that point I had never even heard of BPD, so had no framework with which to understand what was going on.  It felt like a punch in the gut.

Although the outcome in this case was far less serious as yours was, the feelings I had after it still linger within me.  It was the first thing that came to my mind when reading your post, so I wanted to share it with you.

Keep focusing on your own well being.  Sharing with a therapist as well as on here has been extremely helpful in my own recovery.

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infjEpic
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« Reply #10 on: February 20, 2017, 01:13:24 PM »

Hey infjEpic. Sorry about that, that sounds terrible!
Say that the above is true, that the cheating had already begun. Would you say she in that case did this (the smashing against radiator) out of shame... ?

In the morning, I was dropping her to work & we'd had a massive row.
I don't recall why the row started - I think she attempted to carry on a 12 hour argument from the previous day.
I might be conflating events.

What I'm certain of, is that during the course of this arguments, she said 'If I'm accused of cheating, I may aswell go and cheat'.
I blew a fuse - I said I had never accused her of cheating, but that her behaviour was making me anxious and untrusting.

I said that, what she had said changes everything.
I wasn't going to hang around to find out if she was going to cheat on me.
She got out of the car

I was livid, and ready to wash my hands of it. I went to work.
But self doubt set in I suppose - whatever the reasons were that I always crumbled first and tried to fix things.

After we finished work, I collected her.
We were upstairs in my house, she was stood on the stairs, and she escalated quickly.

She mixed rage with victimisation, claiming she had never said that.

She claimed she said 'I'm going to be treated like a scumbag, I may aswell act like a scumbag'. (She had a bizarre fixation on the word scumbag, I assume this derives from a previous ex or from her father)

I point blank refused to be gaslight.
I then recalled entire portions of the conversation verbatim (this ability can be as much a negative as a positive during arguments, even with non-disordered people)

Then I explained why it was impossible that she said anything other than cheating, due to the exact things said afterward.

The she went into meltdown. She was totally out-maneuvered.


In answer to your question - I never witnessed genuine shame, guilt or remorse.
My conclusion, probably now more than ever, is that she was not reacting to shame, but to narcissistic injury.


Excerpt
Also, did she know you were starting therapy and how did she handle that? You'd have to speculate, I know...

I don't really have to speculate, as it was the subject of argumentation.
She was the person who convinced me I need to attending counseling.

She was all in favour of it, because the problem was shifted to me - until it dawned on her that this was going to backfire - this meant a loss of control for her.
She wanted to know everything discussed with the therapist, and sought to dismantle and discredit him. Struggled to regain control.

I believe that her NPD traits were probably more pronounced than her BPD traits.
I'm aware of several instances in which she experienced gratification in inflicting (physical) pain on me. The Narcissist smile etc.


Excerpt
They can't, as we know, handle their feelings, and eventually the pressure gets unbearable upon which they explode. I guess I'm still searching for specific reasons where there really aren't any. In my ex's case the accidental pawing at her nose was enough to let all pressurized hell break loose.

I see your ex as more benign and more typical BPD.

My ex engaged in premeditated criminal behaviour against me.
I'm very careful not to bash BPDs, but in spite of all the labels we've become accustomed to, I still feel the single best label for her is: Sociopath.

Today is the one year anniversary of that relationship.
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Keef
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« Reply #11 on: February 24, 2017, 10:41:58 AM »

Hello. Thank you   everyone for your input.

I brought the incident up in detail when I saw my therapist. It felt good to place this memory on the table between us. It was of course painful but it hasn't haunted me the way it did before I told the T this story, and since reading your caring posts.

infjEpic:
she told me earlier in the relationship, that she had done this with her ex.
To me my ex gf's breakdown came as a surprise - even though she did show me what she's capable of the night she assaulted me, and even though she'd told me of a family incident occuring the Xmas before last. I never could imagine she would put me through something similar. Little did I know. I must become better at listening to myself!

Sunfl0wer:
She sounds like she was in a terrible dissociative state.
Make me wonder where she sits on the dissociative disorder spectrum.
Thanks for your comment. I know, I have also been suspecting this was massive dissociation. Truly awful. The helplessness was terrifying to me. She wasn't there! I'm also wondering - although it doesn't help anyone now, and wouldn't have helped as it happened - where she sits on the spectrum. There was, in my layman opinion, something psychotic about this breakdown. It was just too much. I didn't know how to speak to her the following hour.

Thank you again. And take care of yourselves.
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joeramabeme
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« Reply #12 on: February 24, 2017, 03:23:36 PM »

Hi Keef

No, I cannot fathom your story, that is very intense.  And I am not surprised that it has taken awhile to process this.  Not sure what the nature of your relationship was before this event but I have found that over time, my level of "acceptability" and "normalcy" was ground to lower and lower levels.  It seemed the lower those levels went the more unpredictable things would become.  Was that the case for you?

As heartandwhole mentioned, the fact that you are now talking about it is the path forward.  Further, although you probably had a startled and frightened reaction to the actual event, it is probably more so now that you have been away for awhile and you have returned to a healthier baseline of perception.

I am not sure what the clinical label would be for all that, and I really don't think it matters beyond prescribing the appropriate therapy.  For me and my experience, I have decided to apply the label of emotional instability to prevent getting too deep into topical areas that I am not qualified to speak at length about.

Keep us posted, I would not be surprised if this continues to replay as you work it through.

Best, JRB
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