Difficulty with My Boyfriend's Ex's Tactics

[How to communicate after a contentious divorce...]

I just read this on one of the boards

5. Emotional incest: The mother treats the children like little lovers emotionally, often sleeping with the children (or one of them) and constantly "adoring" the children.  She is intimate with them in terms of the kinds of discussions and conversations that she should be having with her adult partner... . but the children (or one of the children) replace the adult emotionally... . (Similar to "parentifying" behavior discussed below.)  

She may make the child responsible for her emotional or physical health: "I'll be so sad if you don't do a, b, or c... . I was so upset when I saw you doing a, b, or c, that I took to my bed with a headache."  

Children who are the victims of emotionally incestuous or parentifying behavior often are very "good" children:  They do well, often very well, in school, they are usually respectful, they do what they are told, don't need to be "reminded" of things too often.  Very often the parents brag about how responsible or mature these children are.  

Many times these kids are too pale and don't laugh, smile, or play as easily as other kids the same age.  There is usually guilt or manipulation involved here... . the child is subtly or overtly asked to show how much he loves Mommy or Daddy (whichever is the BPD/NPD parent).  And maintaining a good relationship with someone who isn't BPDMommy is often seen as a betrayal, producing great guilt in the child.

This is basically what I am dealing with... .my BF's ex has some serious issues... .very dependent on their 11 year old daughter for her comfort and stability/happiness. My BF and his ex split after he found out she'd been having an affair a year and a half ago. They divorced a few months later. She is SO controlling and abusive towards my partner. After the split, she has been making the D sleep in bed with her, and still is. They have 50/50 custody. She picks and chooses when she wants to talk to J - my partner - her ex - which is almost never, making coparenting almost an impossible feat. She does a lot of the communicating through their daughter. She is SO MAD that he's moved on so quickly and absolutely hates my guts b/c of it. She is still with the man she had the affair with. They very briefly discussed possibly getting the daughter a cell phone for Christmas but she decided against it $$$ but agreed to revisit in March for the D bday. She just went ahead and got it for her behind his back. What the heck. So first weekend the D had the phone at his house (he has her every other weekend and weekdays after school - not quite 50/50 - see closing notes) the ex texted her NON STOP. NON STOP. The phone kept blowing up. What do you suggest here? It made me SO angry to hear that thing going off every second. The other thing she did was try to make arrangements through her D about alternate plans for getting picked up by a family member of his X. J has had ENOUGH and is in the process of trying to alter their parenting plan so that he gets her a true 50/50  - wants 7 days on 7 days off. Hopefully this will go through for his sake and the D's sake.

[nettieboop]

I just read this on one of the boards

5. Emotional incest: The mother treats the children like little lovers emotionally, often sleeping with the children (or one of them) and constantly "adoring" the children.  She is intimate with them in terms of the kinds of discussions and conversations that she should be having with her adult partner... . but the children (or one of the children) replace the adult emotionally... . (Similar to "parentifying" behavior discussed below.)  

She may make the child responsible for her emotional or physical health: "I'll be so sad if you don't do a, b, or c... . I was so upset when I saw you doing a, b, or c, that I took to my bed with a headache."  

Children who are the victims of emotionally incestuous or parentifying behavior often are very "good" children:  They do well, often very well, in school, they are usually respectful, they do what they are told, don't need to be "reminded" of things too often.  Very often the parents brag about how responsible or mature these children are.  

Many times these kids are too pale and don't laugh, smile, or play as easily as other kids the same age.  There is usually guilt or manipulation involved here... . the child is subtly or overtly asked to show how much he loves Mommy or Daddy (whichever is the BPD/NPD parent).  And maintaining a good relationship with someone who isn't BPDMommy is often seen as a betrayal, producing great guilt in the child.

This is basically what I am dealing with... .my BF's ex has some serious issues... .very dependent on their 11 year old daughter for her comfort and stability/happiness. My BF and his ex split after he found out she'd been having an affair a year and a half ago. They divorced a few months later. She is SO controlling and abusive towards my partner. After the split, she has been making the D sleep in bed with her, and still is. They have 50/50 custody. She picks and chooses when she wants to talk to J - my partner - her ex - which is almost never, making coparenting almost an impossible feat. She does a lot of the communicating through their daughter. She is SO MAD that he's moved on so quickly and absolutely hates my guts b/c of it. She is still with the man she had the affair with. They very briefly discussed possibly getting the daughter a cell phone for Christmas but she decided against it $$$ but agreed to revisit in March for the D bday. She just went ahead and got it for her behind his back. What the heck. So first weekend the D had the phone at his house (he has her every other weekend and weekdays after school - not quite 50/50 - see closing notes) the ex texted her NON STOP. NON STOP. The phone kept blowing up. What do you suggest here? It made me SO angry to hear that thing going off every second. The other thing she did was try to make arrangements through her D about alternate plans for getting picked up by a family member of his X. J has had ENOUGH and is in the process of trying to alter their parenting plan so that he gets her a true 50/50  - wants 7 days on 7 days off. Hopefully this will go through for his sake and the D's sake.

[DreamGirl]

It is frustrating having an uncooperative coparent.

So I do think it's pretty helpful that he already has a 50/50 schedule. Do you have the 5/2/2/5 schedule now?

My husband has had the week on/week off arrangement for a long time and it's proven to be very beneficial to everyone involved, including mom. Mom is just a better mom after a week break. I'm a better stepmom too actually.

My suggestion might be to present it to her in a way that makes it look like she's on the winning end too?

How did they come up with the current schedule?

[livednlearned]

Would your SO be willing to enforce a cell phone policy while D is at your place?

S15's dad gave him a Chrome notebook when he was 9. It really stressed my son out. n/BPDx wanted to be able to do Google hangouts and text nonstop.

I turned the notebook off when it came into our house.

Different house, different rules.

I was sitting in court for one of my hearings and heard the judge suggest this to another couple. She didn't want her pre-teen daughter to have a phone, dad bought one anyway. The judge said to mom, how about no phone in your house, she can use it in his. And as she gets older, introduce texting rules -- like no phones at the table, no texting in the car.

[nettieboop]

My partner has enforced a strict 'phone's off at 9:30 plan'... .He won't let her hang out on her phone non-stop which is nice. Seems to be a bit better.

He sas his D every other weekend (overnights) and picks her up every day from school, then drops her off... .by no means a true 50/50. He's hoping for the 7day/7day... .which his BPDx will flip out about.

BPDx refuses to talk to my BF. REFUSES. Unless of course there is something that she wants. The craziness in all of this is she's the one who had an affair and caused the end of their marriage, but keeps treating him as though it was the other around. Last week she had to take D to a foot doctor because her toe was infected (uses his medical) and didn't bother sharing that information. All of this gets relayed through D (10 years old.) Sunday, yesterday, the D said "oh yeah... .I'm supposed to be taking medicine for my toe to make the infection go away... ." antibiotics that are supposed to be taken twice a day - and she'd been at our house since FRIDAY. What the heck. How is this OK?

[Panda39]

nettieboop,

You made me smile  ... .why... .because you remind me of me when I first arrived here  Angry and having no idea why "crazy lady" did any of the things she did particularly when it comes to the kids. I read your post and it's like a checklist of the things I was experiencing too... .

Emotional Incest... .yep
ex Controlling... .yep
D sleeping in her bed... .yep
Communicating or not communicating as she chooses... .yep
Jealously... .yep
blowing up the kids phone with calls & texts... .yep

I'm really glad you found us.  Learning about BPD and finding this site has been tremendously helpful for me and I know it can help you navigate your SO's BPDex too.

... .She is SO controlling and abusive towards my partner... .

 
One thing that can help with this is to communicate with the ex only by email.  It slows everything way down and gives you a chance to think not just give a knee jerk reaction. Respond only to emails or parts of emails regarding his daughter ignore any abuse or off the point (his daughter) conversation.  So you get an email that is all abuse, ignore it, do not respond but save it... .actually save all emails (you might need it later for documentation... .ie: court, police, CPS).  When you respond use BIFF... .Brief Informative Factual Friendly (or at least professional). 

You could email her now about the antibiotics... .

BPDex,

We were just made aware that D should be on antibiotics for her toe.  In the future will you please notify me of any health concerns when I pick up D so that we are on the same page about her health care.  I would like to come by to pick her prescription up from you today so she doesn't miss any further days of medication.  Thank you for your help with this so that D's toe heals properly.

SO

... .or something like that.

Now will sending this email make mom cooperate?  Not necessarily but you have documented that you were not advised D needed medication, you tried to rectify the situation, and hopefully mom will respond via email and you either get her refusal, or help or if she doesn't respond you can note that you never heard back.

If mom refuses to help call D doctor's office and tell them that the medication did not make it to your house and could you get a prescription to cover the time she is with you. 

I have to get back to work but will try to get back to you later this evening.  I know more members will add their comments and advice as well.  You are not alone 

Before I go I suggest reading what you can on BPD it really helped me to understand what was going on.  I hit my local library system and read everything I could that gave me a good grounding.  This site has a board that is specifically book reviews you might get some good ideas there but I liked... .Overcoming Borderline Personality DisorderBy Valerie Porr, M.A. and Stop Walking on Eggshells: Taking Your Life Back When Someone You Care About Has Borderline Personality Disorder by Paul Mason MS & Randi Kreger.

Welcome to the bpdfamily 
Panda39

[Panda39]

It is frustrating having an uncooperative coparent.

Yep, I agree.  In the our situation the court must have recognized co-parenting wasn't going to work and assigned decision making for different things to my SO and his uBPDex so we were actually set up for parallel parenting. 

You might try parallel parenting as much can... .mom does what mom does at her house/when she has the kids and you do what you do at your house.  As much as you want to you really can't control what she does in her home you can only control what goes on in yours. (Keep setting another example at your house it will only help D10) I would try to keep your interaction with mom low... .like I said previously use email... .set the boundary, and use only email.

I knew I had finally arrived at some kind of understanding when my SO's uBPDxw (undiagnosed BPD ex-wife) took D (then13) with her to drop D(then18) off for her first year of college.  This was a trip across the country over a weekend.  So off they all went to Vermont and the day they were to return we get the call from the ex... .We missed the plane, because of traffic, we won't be home today.  (Really? I'm sure traffic is horrendous on a Sunday in Vermont  ) In the past I would have been freaking out and angry and would have engaged in the drama... .my old thinking would have gone something like, anger because she was cutting into my SO's time with his daughter and she was missing school to Wow is she being kidnapped?  But instead by then my SO and I had learned more about BPD and better ways to respond. Rather than engage in the drama he just told her to send him her new flight information once it was arranged. No drama we didn't take the bait.  D and uBPDmom arrived home the next day.  Yes, mom's behavior sucked but engaging in drama was not going to change anything, sometimes letting go is a good option.

Another thing I wanted to suggest was when you can bypass mom all together and go straight to the "source" for information whether that be D's teachers, friend's parents, doctor, girl scout leader... .whoever.  Don't count on mom to provide you with information.

My partner has enforced a strict 'phone's off at 9:30 plan'... .He won't let her hang out on her phone non-stop which is nice. Seems to be a bit better.

This is a good boundary, you can add more to strengthen it if you want to... .no phone during meals, no phone during family activities (at the movies, at the park, out to dinner etc)... .anytime you don't want the intrusion. You will need to set the boundaries in your house and you will need to set them for your SO's D who may not be able to set boundaries with a "boundary busting" mom.  My SO's daughters were actually taught it was rude not to answer the phone... .can you see the FOG (Fear, Obligation and Guilt) rolling in? When setting phone boundaries don't be surprised when mom tries to boundary bust... .calling/texting daughter after she's in bed, threatening you with court action because you aren't giving her 24hour access to her D etc.  Your house... .your rules.

Kids with a cellphone and a BPDmom are an issue we've actually had entire threads posted here on the subject you are not alone in dealing with this one.

BPDx refuses to talk to my BF. REFUSES. Unless of course there is something that she wants.

Use email to document your reaching out and her responses or lack of response it will demonstrate a pattern of a lack of cooperation that you might want if you go back to court.

In the meantime you can also learn some tools that can help how you communicate with her... .

Along with BIFF that I previously mentioned there is also SET - Support, Empathy, Truth as well as other ways to more effectively communicate (see link below)
https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=69272.0

Email also makes using the above tools easier... .gives you time to really think and edit what and how you communicate.  If you want feedback on something you will be emailing this is a great place for that too.

Hang in there,
Panda39

[Klera]

Hi nettieboop,

I can relate to so much of what you're going through with your SO ex and recognize some if not all of her behaviour! so sorry! I know how stressful this stuff can be.     I agree with the responses, advice offered to you already, like Panda's etc,  so I don't have a whole lot to add except emphasize a bit more on medical attention and communication areas and a little on using kids and "things" ie phones as weapons.  Yeah, I know that sounds as bad as it is... .keep on breathing.     

The fact that the ex (mom) failed to inform your SO of the doctor's visit and treatment (antibiotics) but using his medical, buying a phone behind your back etc,  tells us she is not above weaponizing or using the child  and continues on with her abusive patterns.   By using the D as a post office box is also unacceptable! That part really gets me annoyed.     Parents have to communicate obviously for the sake of the kids,  so that will be up to both parents and what that entails.  I completely agree with Panda whole heartedly - via email only, facts, politeness, that's it, NO emotion, i.e. not "I was so disappointed/angry that... ."  Her withholding important information (another favourite weapon of choice) from the other parent (your SO) about the wellbeing ( D's infection)  is a flat out major no-no.    What concerns me here is that the girl's mom, in the future possibly 'upping the ante' next time with respect to stunts like this.   My experience has been if the ex did not get the fight or drama she was after, she would pull a bigger doozy the next time around, it's called 'baiting'. She gets off on it.  Unfortunately you can't predict when the next 'bomb' hits but you can definitely be prepared or strategize, agree on what the boundaries/rules will be.  There can be so many repetitive patterns emerge you can almost make a flow chart, I'm not kidding you.  Like a broken record, they can and will keep on 'oops, I did it again' and pretend it was a lapse in memory.  Really? are you kidding me? you seriously think we'll believe you forgot? nice try lady.      The one thing BPDs are brilliant at is finding your weak spot, what gets at you the most and going after it.  You should look up 'extinction burst' when the quiet times get too much and then they HAVE to cause trouble somehow, some way.    I'm assuming that texting the D constantly during your parenting time was quite amusing for her?   Very calculating and invasive, not respecting your time with the D, being overly possessive.     I would establish the boundary of possibly the phone not coming into your home for instance.  After all she bought without your permission or knowledge - phone is a privilege, not a right to have one or make your child have one one.      Like Panda said, different house, different rules.  If ex is boundary bashing then establish a firmer one and so on. It takes practice believe me.    So my mantra has always been 'never let her see that she got to you' ie. wait a few days or a time out before there needs to be action so as to not do the knee jerk reaction, I think that was already mentioned.  Keep your cool sister!    It's hard to contain your anger but really important the young one doesn't see this... .'smile and wave' is another mantra.   What's really disturbing in your situation is that the ex is physically dangerous! (slashing tires? yikes!) please document aggressive behaviour as well.   I would STRONGLY recommend that you do NOT go on to her property vice versa.  Her anger towards you is not fixable I'm afraid, nor will it likely to decrease anytime soon -  not your fault and always try to protect yourself from harm and the toxicity of her illness.  If she shows up drunk or aggressive, call the police if you have to but this sort of behaviour needs addressing and dealt with big time and his lawyer should be able to help with that, I hope.     In my situation the ex, when she used to drop the kids off at our house, (albeit ALWAYS late) demanded that '_me__ not receive the kids' (on my own doorstep).  I'm like:  excuuuse me?  I'll do as I please, thanks very much.  I'm in my own house.   Because SHE couldn't handle seeing me open the door with arms open wide to hug them... ?threatened perhaps? them being 'disloyal' to her.    The next time she dropped the kids off, I waited for them on the curb (couldn't help myself) like here I am and you do not tell me what to do.  I'm looking after your kids, btw... how about some gratitude?  never going to happen.   Eventually, we established that my H picks them up AND drops them off so no cat fighting between the moms anymore.  She could never, ever be on time, punctuality meant nothing to her and of course was deliberate... .yet again another breach (sigh).

What works with my H was instead of relying on the BPD ex (kids mom) for info of any sort, whether it's medical, dental, or school parent teacher stuff, is that he goes STRAIGHT to the source, the third party, that doctor, that dentist, that teacher, talking directly with other parents for party info etc.  This is the biggest tip I can give you.  You simply cannot trust her. Period.  She has already shown you her spots so do not assume she will be open and honest or honourable and share the same value that you do.   I can tell you the reason we get so mad is that 'they are not normal' and will never do what they should, like a child having a tantrum.   By using/relying the D to transport info, puts pressure on her and it was one thing our lawyer was firm on, this is not to happen. Ever. It puts the kid in the middle of conflict and it also hurts and scares them when they see the intended reaction from the other parent.

I hope that helps.  Mostly just my personal opinion/s and from experience... .

Oh, one last thing.  It is not unusual for the BPD to accuse you of what they, themselves have done.  Very common.  I'm sure her version is that your SO had the affair that ended the marriage and not her.  It happened to me too, only the ex was spreading that rumour around the schools, parents, teachers etc. but eventually admitted that she 'vented to the wrong people' about their separation.  I think that was her attempt at actually admitting she did something wrong. Dare to dream.

Take care and good luck!

[nettieboop]

First of... .this   "The one thing BPDs are brilliant at is finding your weak spot, what gets at you the most and going after it." You hit the nail on the HEAD.

Second, regarding refraining from going to her house... .hahaha

My BF and I went to BPDx to pick up the D once. D got in the truck, BPDx saw from the house that D was getting in the back seat and not in front (signifying my presence), she came storming out of the house to my side of the truck and started pounding on my window demanding that I talk to her... .I said 'no'... .terrified. She went to his side where she started verbally attacking him (D still in backseat.) Backstory, the marriage ended b/c she was having a full blown affair with her high school BF, whom she is still with... .my BF started seeing me a few months after separation before their divorce was final - takes a while. Back to the truck... .BPDx started accusing him of cheating on her (b/c they're divorce wasn't final) in front of D. It escalated from there. D ended up going in the house. We tried to leave but she wouldn't let him shut his door. One of the times he tried to shut it she started screaming "don't touch me, stop touching me, THAT'S ASSAULT M F'er!" I was watching the whole thing... .he wasn't even touching her, just trying to shut his door so we could leave. He eventually got in and she jumped on the side of his truck, stuck half her body in his window (she's also holding a glass of wine.) She stayed on his truck for 45 minutes screaming at him, me, belittling him, accusing him of non-existing things, etc. We threatened to call the cops, she kept insisting they would do nothing b/c we were on HER property... etc. In retrospect, we wish we had. As soon as she said 'stop touching me... etc' I started video recording her with my phone, unbeknownst to her, for protection, just in case she made any false accusations after the fact. It's 45 minutes long. Unfortunately, we can't use this in a court, I just found out, because she has to be made aware that she's being recorded. Anyway, I will never go back there. LOL She's not stable. Thanks for all your replies! I really appreciate the support... .this is not easy.

[livednlearned]

That's sounds like an awful experience. I'm so sorry you had to go through that. Poor D

How does your BF handle exchanges after that?

First of... .this   "The one thing BPDs are brilliant at is finding your weak spot, what gets at you the most and going after it."

There's another side to this.

In my experience the impulse is to externalize super distressing and out of control internal emotions. If BPD mom feels emotionally aroused or dysregulated, she will seek to create that chaos externally.

She may be trying one thing or another to discharge her feelings out there, and won't relent until she sees her own internal chaos and suffering expressed outwardly. My T said it's kind of like: "Good. Now you feel how I feel."

This helped me come up with a strategy, like going beige, or bland, giving nothing away -- these kinds of responses can neutralize things a little. If your BF gives her a reaction, she will likely focus her efforts there because she anticipates a pay off. I also found some success being super confident and almost authoritative, like disciplining a child. Altho I wouldn't recommend doing that as a step parent. (My SO and I both have BPD ex spouses, so this is something I did with my ex, not with SO's ex).

Where things get super hard is when kids are involved. D's BPD mom likely has little to no emotional control in the best of circumstances so expecting her to act like a grown up when it comes to her territorial bear cub impulses is probably not going to happen. 

About exchanges - it's not uncommon for people here to have them in public places, including the police station. Or, recording it (this may be a good question for the Family Law board -- there are different ways to use recordings.) BF's ex gave him a gift by tipping off what she is willing to do to get a reaction from him. I always took these crazy warnings seriously and took any and all measures to protect myself. Even if my ex didn't do exactly what he threatened to do, it signaled how unhinged he was, and unpredictable.

One thing I also learned is that cops will come and do what's called domestic assistance if you call them (it might be called something different where you live). Their job with those kinds of calls is to make sure no one gets hurt. They won't enforce custody orders per se, but there are things they can and will do that keep the peace in that moment. Even something as benign as stand there while you back your car up to leave. Plus, it documents that things escalated to the point that a cop had to be called. It's possible, too, that in your state your BF could show the cop the recording to say, "This is what happened, despite her allegation that I am the aggressor."

Anyway, I will never go back there.

Yeah. It's sad and unfortunate and not fair. And smart of you!

With my ex, I realized he was a troubled child who grew up to be a dangerous adult. Because we have a kid together, I had to learn to toggle back and forth between parenting him like a troubled child and protecting myself from a dangerous adult.

It's hard stuff for sure.

[GaGrl]

It's going to be very, very important to help your BF's D learn to individuate, that is, to see herself and to behave as if she is a separate person with her own needs, wants, etc. and that she is not responsible for others' emotions.  I agree that a true 50-50 arrangement would help with this -- more time with Dad could be critical.

My perspective on this is having adult step-children who had an uNPD/BPD mom -- with many of the behaviors you describe with your BF's ex.  My DH's ex engaged in almost constant affairs from early on in the marriage; DH was military and often unaware of what was going on, while other times he was desparately trying to hold the family together.  His ex had intense rages, several of which resulted in arrest upon complaints by her boyfriends.  Her extinction bursts were epic.  But the saddest part was her emotional incest with the children -- sleeping with them when DH was posted elsewhere (several years at one point), exposing them to things that should have been kept private regarding her affairs, blaming them for her unhappiness or displeasure and making them feel responsible for her emotions.

Both of DH's bio children need therapy -- I wish they would get it.  DH did an amazing job at working with is children on separating what is "Mom" versus what is "You" but there is still tremendous damage.  The adopted daughter (actually the ex's niece) came into the household and immediately went into conflict with her -- she left their home the day she turned 18. 

Is your BF's D in counseling of any sort?

[nettieboop]

D is in counseling. My BF thought it would be a good idea after the truck incident. He knows that BPDx uses daughter as an emotional crutch and doesn't want that following her into adulthood. D has mastered the art of compartmentalization and never talks about any of that stuff in counseling... .so the counselor thinks there is no reason for her to be at counseling - only b/c she doesn't really know that whole situation. My BF is amazing with her and has really great talks with her. We'll see what happens. Mediation is on the 30th. We both think that she will not agree to any of his requests and it will then go to court.

[bunny4523]

It's so hard that they can't seem to see they are hurting the kids.  they are so busy protecting themselves from an imaginery danger/enemy.

I got caught up in not wanting anything to do with my husbands ex because she flips so often that I never know what will set her off so I just avoided her.  That kind of made things worse.  I had to learn to do the right thing for my step daugher and not worry about her mother's reaction.  Like if there is a school project, text mom and ask her if she is ok with me making the costume or if she wants to.  If her daughter has the sniffles, reach out and let her know.  Sometimes she is appreciative and says thank you and other times I'm disrespecting her and crossing a line.  It depends on her mood and how she is feeling that day... .it has nothing to do with what I'm doing so I do my best to not take it personal.   I have to remember that what I am doing is the RIGHT thing and to keep doing it.

I kind of look at her like I do my 17 year old son.  You know how teenagers will argue either side of the coin with you depending on what they want in the moment?  My 17 year old ends up hating me half the time and that's ok. I've had to learn that my husbands's ex will hate me half the time too and that is ok.

Also like on a kids cartoon I saw once, spongebob I think, it was "opposite day."  When the ex tells us she is done with us and wants nothing to do with us what she really needs is us to reach out the next day with a picture of her daughter or an update about something she did at school.  When she is pushing us away is her really saying, "I feel left out, can you include me more."   

I think the hardest part has been not to let her raging words hurt me.  I try to remember she isn't well and not take it personal.  I try to look at her how I would if it were my sister that wasn't well. 

I actually deal with it better than my husband because I  KNOW the things she is saying about us aren't true.  My husband was in it for so long that it caused him to doubt himself.  He is the most amazing, loving, fun, supportive, involved father I have met yet she had him believing he was no better than a sperm donor. 

This isn't an easy place to be, they can be so mean... .thank goodness we have the support of this site to remind us it isn't anything we are doing... .it's BPD.

Bunny

[bunny4523]

 My T said it's kind of like: "Good. Now you feel how I feel."  

TEENAGERS DO THIS TOO just goes back to reinforcing how BPD are emotionally immature/unstable


we just need to remember to handle them as such and not interact with them as if they are respectable and rational adults

 

[ForeverDad]

5. Emotional incest: The mother treats the children like little lovers emotionally, often sleeping with the children (or one of them) and constantly "adoring" the children.  She is intimate with them in terms of the kinds of discussions and conversations that she should be having with her adult partner... .  but the children (or one of the children) replace the adult emotionally... .

After the split, she has been making the D sleep in bed with her, and still is.

I may have missed responses to this but this is very concerning IMO.  When I separated my then-spouse had already been sleeping on our 3yo preschooler's bed for 3 months.  I couldn't get CPS or counselors to see a big problem with that.  But yours is much older, a pre-teen.  I believe the professionals might be more likely to agree with your concerns.

A pre-teen should have a separate bedroom from the parent, her own bed and a pattern of sleeping in her own bed.  If not, then this could be an issue to address with the counselor, social services or even CPS.  Is D11 in counseling?  Courts and the professionals around court favor counseling strongly.  If Ex refuses to agree, very likely if it goes to court the court would order it.  Not just for the ed sharing but for overall counseling.

However, be prepared strategically if you seek counseling.  Not just any counselor will do.  If mother has her wishes then any counselor would be one who agrees with her.  One approach many have used successfully is to build a short list of 3 or 4 really good counselors, solid, experienced, good reputations, not easily gullible.  Then present it that the other parent can choose from that short list.  That way both parents have a part in the selection, courts like that.  Of course, it is important that dad build that short list or mother will fish for gullible ones.