Fed Up and Have Some Demands

[Depression = 72% of members]

My BPD spouse has been physically violent twice in the last month. The worst part of all this is though how much he acts like a victim: I made him move away from his family, I made him drive me to work everyday, I'm getting a condo so I won't need him anymore (to drive me to work so that I can stop hearing that complaint and he can get a job or leave me), I'm always playing the victim, I'm provoking him, I'm ruining his life, I'm selfish and manipulative like my mother, and on and on. The truth is that he has been getting steadily worse over the last year and a half because he failed a quiz in school and hates himself for it. The truth is that he's been getting worse since before that but that made it go faster. He has a mother who loves him. I'm near my family now but they rejected me as soon as I showed up and manipulated me into moving back home. He berated me: idiot, moron, retard, stupid, ___, ___, selfish, manipulative, psychopath, etc. all the time. He blocks my messages without telling me but calls me constantly and threatens to come to my office when I tell him that I'm not going to talk to him for four hours. I've apparently trapped him. I'm getting the condo so he won't feel so trapped anymore but oh, that's me doing something so I won't need him anymore. Nothing I do works. He refuses to get help. This is my list of demands to keep the relationship going: he gets on meds, he goes to individual and group DBT therapy, he can no longer be hostile or violent to me or my cat, he cannot be verbally or emotionally abusive (no name calling, no threasts, no degradation, no blaming me for his choices or things out of my control), he has to go to school/work, no more yelling at me or my cat, he has to be responsible for his own self care and be involved in housework. Anything to add or strike? He's depressed too which is why it is so bad. I still love him but he's not the person I fell in love with. He needs to show improvement for me to stay with him. I have not changed all that much. Maybe I've given up a bit but not as much as he has. I'm sick of him playing the victim when the majority of bad behavior comes from him and then anything I say against him is me playing martyr. Which is all he does. I've had enough.

[AR88]

My BPD spouse has been physically violent twice in the last month. The worst part of all this is though how much he acts like a victim: I made him move away from his family, I made him drive me to work everyday, I'm getting a condo so I won't need him anymore (to drive me to work so that I can stop hearing that complaint and he can get a job or leave me), I'm always playing the victim, I'm provoking him, I'm ruining his life, I'm selfish and manipulative like my mother, and on and on. The truth is that he has been getting steadily worse over the last year and a half because he failed a quiz in school and hates himself for it. The truth is that he's been getting worse since before that but that made it go faster. He has a mother who loves him. I'm near my family now but they rejected me as soon as I showed up and manipulated me into moving back home. He berated me: idiot, moron, retard, stupid, ___, ___, selfish, manipulative, psychopath, etc. all the time. He blocks my messages without telling me but calls me constantly and threatens to come to my office when I tell him that I'm not going to talk to him for four hours. I've apparently trapped him. I'm getting the condo so he won't feel so trapped anymore but oh, that's me doing something so I won't need him anymore. Nothing I do works. He refuses to get help. This is my list of demands to keep the relationship going: he gets on meds, he goes to individual and group DBT therapy, he can no longer be hostile or violent to me or my cat, he cannot be verbally or emotionally abusive (no name calling, no threasts, no degradation, no blaming me for his choices or things out of my control), he has to go to school/work, no more yelling at me or my cat, he has to be responsible for his own self care and be involved in housework. Anything to add or strike? He's depressed too which is why it is so bad. I still love him but he's not the person I fell in love with. He needs to show improvement for me to stay with him. I have not changed all that much. Maybe I've given up a bit but not as much as he has. I'm sick of him playing the victim when the majority of bad behavior comes from him and then anything I say against him is me playing martyr. Which is all he does. I've had enough.

[RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING]

RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members are welcomed to express frustration but must seek constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[livednlearned]

That behavior sounds very familiar (except dog, not cat  )

I recognize the string of insults, too.

It is baffling to be berated for one thing (e.g. being around too much), and then chastised for the very opposite (e.g. not being around enough).

Making demands usually doesn't work, although I sympathize with the desire to make a list and have him obey. Maybe we can help you brainstorm some boundaries that you have control over so you aren't dependent on him complying so much.

What happened in the DV incidents? Are you ok?

Glad you posted. 

LnL

[AR88]

Some of those are boundaries. He has not had any consequences for his actions. The violence is why I am making these demands because it is the only way to make them stop. He has had his hand over my throat, leaving marks, he has slapped me on the side of the head multiple times in a row, leaving marks and making it hard for me to chew (I think I have a hairline fracture in my jaw just next to my ear), he bit me multiple times leaving marks and I believe causing another hairline fracture in the first bone of my right ring finger. It's hard to tell with the possible breaks because I have a very high pain threshold. But he keeps going on about the hits I landed fighting back. I have been letting him get away with his escalating behavior for years. That's my mistake. But his actions are his own and deserve consequences. I told his mother about the demands. She said she understood. I can't live in fear for my life. When he has episodes he threatens to kill and wishes me dead. Now that the episodes have gotten violent, I can't ignore those threats. Every book I read said that consequences are good for them. If he really doesn't want our relationship to end because of his fear from abandonment then he will do what he can to avoid that. The consequences for treating me this way are me leaving. It's the only thing I have control over. I know that scares him but I will not live in fear for my life any longer. I will give him a time limit to meet these demands but after that the consequences will be able to go into effect. It's the right thing for me to do. I know it will hurt him, but his BPD and depression do not excuse his behavior. It only explains it. I have given him slack for eleven years and it has done nothing but make him worse. Obviously that doesn't work. I tried setting limitations (I won't talk to you for a certain amount of time when you behave in this specific manor) but his countermoves ruin it (he calls constantly and tells his mother to tell me that if I don't respond to him that he will come to my work - which could get me fired/him arrested like Blue Valentine). So this is literally the last thing I can try. I have done everything else and none of it works. My control is shredded because he constantly invalidates how I feel. I'm becoming more and more like him and that scares me because I have always been in control of myself. Now I'm anxious all the time and now I'm scared too. I can't do it anymore. I don't see any other options. I tried validating and countering but he just saw that as being handled. I've tried silence when he's been in a rage but he goads me or threatens me if I don't respond. He says he will be more violent if the cops get involved. He has blocked all avenues. He has made it impossible for me to live anymore. I'm afraid of him and he has lost my trust. I still love him and wish he would get better, but I don't see how that will happen if my behavior doesn't change. By which I mean giving him a consequence for his which I have never given him before. I don't want my marriage to end. I want my best friend back. But wishing won't do it. He's told me he's a lost cause. He's told me he's destroyed me. He's said that I've been the frog in the boiling pot. And he is right. I have to jump out. I don't want to but I have to. I hate that this is where my marriage went that this is where he is. I feel sorry for him but I can't let it go on if it will kill me. Who can live like this?

[livednlearned]

He has been violent and it's gone on for a while (escalating) and you are taking care of yourself and recognizing that this is not a tenable way to live. I admire your strength AR88. It takes a lot to get to this point and a lot more to turn things around.

Some of those are boundaries. He has not had any consequences for his actions.

I see. I'm wondering if you mean ultimatums? An ultimatum is usually, "Either you do this, or I will _______." An ultimatum can add gas to flame and escalate things. On these boards, we talk about boundaries as things we have control over, and the consequences may be enacted without words, altho in some cases skilled phrases can help dial down the conflict.

For example, if he calls you names, you might decide to exit the room/apartment/house/car. "I want to hear what you have to say. I will not be called names." Then you leave. That's the consequence.

What are some of the books that are helping?

Do you have a place to go when he is dysregulated?

LnL

[Meili]

No one should live like that even if they could.

I agree that we all have, and should have, consequences to our actions. Defining and maintaining boundaries is necessary in any relationship. Even more so in a relationship with someone with BPD traits.

Ultimatums, while a type of boundary, are not the same thing as a boundary per se. There are times when they are appropriate however.

There is a good article to help you start defining healthier boundaries HERE

As you have witnessed, he will probably have Extinction Bursts as he pushes against your boundaries and you maintain them. Be prepared for that. The link that I just provided has some good suggestions about dealing with them.

I'm guessing, based on your post, that you haven't reported the instances when he's become physical to the police?

Is there a safe place for your cat to go when you're at work? I have friends who are professional pet sitters. Is there someone like that in your area?

[AR88]

He saw my not talking to him when he is verbally abusive as an ultimatum. He sees every boundary as an ultimatum. I told him instead that if in two months that I didn't feel I was being treated better that I would file for divorce. He sees that as an ultimatum too. To him any boundary or consequence is an ultimatum. So now he's saying he's going to drop out of school and divorce me. I might have to refill out all my paperwork on the condo, including the loan and hope that they still accept everything. I just can't do this anymore. Not like this. Everything I say and do is misinterpreted even when I state exactly what I feel think or mean. He doesn't care about me anymore. He's given up on us. I won't let another violent act happen.

[Meili]

I too experienced defining a boundary as an ultimatum. I stopped telling my ex what my boundaries were and just let my actions show them. Boundaries are for us and our protection. We need not voice them to anyone else. They are completely internal.

I know that this does not offer much of a respite, but what you are describing is fairly common in people who display BPD traits. It helps to learn all that you can on BPD. In Understanding your partner's behaviors, it talks about the pwBPD not reacting to the situation at hand, but rather something in their past or a belief they hold; how they objectify the non; emotional immaturity; and several other things that seem relevant to your situation. It will be worth your time to go through that lesson.

You have been strong for quite a long time AR88, it's understandable that you are frustrated by all of it. We are here to support you.

[AR88]

When I didn't tell him that I wasn't talking to him, he called it abandonment. I've read three different books on BPD and tried all the advice I could find in them and online. I've read so much of it and tried all of it. But he counters it all in ways I can't counter back to. I can't have him come to my work when I don't answer my phone. He is out of control. I know my stating that I will leave him scared him beyond reason, but I also can't take the abuse anymore. He scares me and nothing I do stops him from getting worse. My anxiety is out of control these days. I walked five miles to get away from him blubbering the whole time. He apologized and picked me up and held me. It's the last time I felt like he cared. I'm going to lose this condo because of this. He was already saying it was trapping him since he couldn't drop out of school during the process. He was already trying to sabotage it. I feel so broken.

[Meili]

Feeling broken is understandable. The toll that these types of relationships take on us is massive. Many of us have lost ourselves in the process. I know that I did. I felt much of how you are relating that you feel. The constant anxiety encroached into every aspect of my being.

My ex used to show up at my office uninvited, unannounced, and unwanted also when she felt abandoned. I was fortunate to have an understanding boss. It doesn't sound like you have that situation.

I'm sure that you've already thought through this, but I'm going to ask anyway just in case: Is there a way that you can stop protecting him from the consequences of his own actions (like having to deal with the police), while still protecting yourself?

I know that part of the goal here is to not escalate things. I saw where you've written, on more than one occasion, that every time you do something to protect yourself, he steps things up. Anyone living under those conditions would be fearful. It's a completely understandable response to the situation.

[AR88]

Yesterday he seemed okay, depressed but not overly mean. Today he realized that he forgot to meditate yesterday and he blames me. He started heaping abuse on me through text. He told me I should avoid him. He said he should beat me to death. He saw my not reminding him to meditate yesterday as a malicious and deliberate act. I left the house and walked/took a bus to work. Before I left I closed my cat up in the other bathroom and fed her. While I was at the bus stop he told me he hoped I got raped and murdered. Then he started to say that he hopes I get the death penalty for what I've done to him. Once I was on the bus he started calling constantly and I wouldn't answer. He texted me like crazy telling me to come back that he hadn't given me permission to leave. It was quite a 180. He was screaming in his messages. I stopped looking at them so much. His mom contacted me because he texted her to tell me that if I didn't answer the phone by a certain time that he was going to kill himself. I called him. He yelled at me. I yelled back and hung up. He called a few more times and I answered and we yelled at each other. I stopped answering again. He asked me several times if I got to work, how, and how much did I spend to do so. I told him several times that I would not answer unless he spoke to me in a civil tone (no swearing, no insults, no threats). He finally did ask like that after several prompts but just went right back into abusing me after I answered. I told him I was no longer going to talk to him until her stopped treating me this way. He said that he is sick of me using abuse as an "excuse for abandoning" him so he said he would cut off my phone service and my cards to our bank accounts. I still did not answer. I don't believe I have phone service anymore. I'm sure he's screwed us because there will be a reactivation fee. He kept saying how I wasted his morning when he was the one that would not stop contacting me. He's delusional. I don't know what to do anymore.

[Meili]

I hate that you're still having to deal with that behavior. What's the status of the condo?

Can you just get a new phone plan that is in your name only so that he cannot deactivate it?

Have you thought about taking a Therapeutic Separation from the relationship with the help of a therapist? Maybe it's time that you step back so that you two can restart the relationship?

[AR88]

We are not at close, but everything is still in the works. It's about two weeks away. He refuses to go to a therapist or get on meds anymore. He doesn't see the point since according to him there is no hope for him, no help, only pain. I don't know what to do about my phone. I'm at work right now. I'm going to text my realtor and see if the message sends. If it doesn't I suppose I'll call my carrier.

[Skip]

AR88,

You guys are at war with each other. When it gets this bad, it really help to take a break. It's best that the break is mutually agreed to and it has conditions that are not threatening to anyone. You could work this out together, or maybe have a third party help.

Does this sound like it would help. Just get apart and let thing cool way down?

Are you sure buying real estate is a good idea right now - vs just getting a six month rental? Buying is best when we are in a stable frame of mind and in a stable life situation. Think of all the ways that this condo could create complexities going forward.

Lastly, tell us about the physical violence. What were you fighting about?  What happened that lead to the escalation? What was the "physical" violence?

[AR88]

The reasons for buying the condo are so that I can get to work without him if 1) I can no longer rely on him to take me, 2) he leaves me, 3) I no longer want to be in the relationship, or 4) he kills himself. It is close to my work so that I can walk because I can't drive. I told my boss about what's going on and she has been very supportive of how I feel and wants me to take steps to leave him. Unfortunately I'm not close to anyone. I haven't been close to other people ever. I'm just not sure what to do anymore. I want to leave but I also don't but if I leave I don't know what to do. I know people think I'm in danger here, but I'm not sure how to do that. I just spoke to my realtor and she we are waiting on one thing and then we are clear to close whenever but she wants to make sure that happens in April. I'm going to suggest to my husband that I move into the new place while he finishes the semester at our current apartment to give us some space.