I support you, How could you

[AllNightLong]

Hi,
Since i'm quite new to this with BPD i would like to ask if this is something common that My wife is using against me.

When i tell her that "hey next weekend i will go play football (could be basicly anything i enjoy doing) and she answers yeah sure no problem.
Then when we getting closer to the day everything is getting more intense and the same morning she Will start an argue over anything and then tell me how stupid, evil and disgusting i am leaving her to do anything without her.

If she doesn't bring it up when i Should leave she definetly will when i get back or in the next argument.
This really suck all the fun out of everything i enjoy doing.
How can i handle this?

She also tells me i'm so selfish and that i hate her if i'm not spending all avalible time at home with her. If i watch a football game on tv she complains about what Will she do? She missed me and doesn't wanna do anything else than be with me but she will not look on that stupid game.
It feels like she is suffercating me completly.

Thanks for reading.

[formflier]

I'll give you some general principles.  For specifics, I will need two things from you.

1.  Give me a he said, she said about how you "inform" her of your plans.  Describe the setting, mood and all that.

2.  Give me a he said, she said about how the argument starts when she tells you all your faults and all that.

OK... third question.  How do you know that tension is building?


General principle:

You need to live your own life, let your pwBPD know about this, but don't rub their face in it.  Let them know you value them and are looking forward to time together again.  Principle:  Time apart is good for everyone.  Everyone is adults and can manage their own feelings of sadness (or joy... ) about time apart from their partner.

You guys are also connected and should be good listeners and empathetic for each other.  Empathy doesn't necessarily mean you change YOUR plans or that she changes HER plans.

She has a right to feel however she feels... .as do you.  Neither of you should "solve" feelings for the other, feelings are to be listened to...

Thoughts?

FF

[AllNightLong]

I'll give you some general principles.  For specifics, I will need two things from you.

1.  Give me a he said, she said about how you "inform" her of your plans.  Describe the setting, mood and all that.

2.  Give me a he said, she said about how the argument starts when she tells you all your faults and all that.

OK... third question.  How do you know that tension is building?


General principle:

You need to live your own life, let your pwBPD know about this, but don't rub their face in it.  Let them know you value them and are looking forward to time together again.  Principle:  Time apart is good for everyone.  Everyone is adults and can manage their own feelings of sadness (or joy... ) about time apart from their partner.

You guys are also connected and should be good listeners and empathetic for each other.  Empathy doesn't necessarily mean you change YOUR plans or that she changes HER plans.

She has a right to feel however she feels... .as do you.  Neither of you should "solve" feelings for the other, feelings are to be listened to...

Thoughts?

FF

Thank you for your reply and i will give it a shot to answer your questions.

1, Usually i'm always doing this when we have a calm day where we don't arguing about anything.
Me: hey, do we have any plans this weekend?
Her: No nothing in particular.
Me: Ok, i talked to the guys and they are going scuba diving this on saturday and i'm thinking about joining them.
Her:Ok, that shouldn't be any problem.

2, Usually she starts on friday evening she starts to be tired or she wake up in a bad mood from sleeping bad on saturday morning. Saturday morning is her sleep late morning so i'm up with the kids trying not to wake her up. You will notice directly in her tone if she is in a bad mood or not.
Me: Good morning, how have you slept? Can i give you any breakfast?
Her: Oh i'm so tired! Don't ask me that, you are just stressing me out i can make my own damn breakfast.
Me: Ok sorry, i didn't mean to offend you just asking if you wanted something to eat?
Her: Oh yeah? Don't do that. Now you ruined my whole day, make me feel good again!
Me: I Apologize and say it was a mistake and i didn't mean anything more than what i asked.
Her: Do you think it will be enough that you only apologize? You should make me feel good again. Don't even think about leaving me and go diving. I Can't take the kids feeling like this. You are always doing this you depressed idiot.

Like this it will go on until i'm 20 min late and sitting basically on my knees and saying i'm sorry and she will come back with that i need to promise her something that she knows that i can't promise. She will put me in a lose-lose situation.

IF this doesn't happen she will in our next fight tell me that i should be so fking gratefull that she let me go away and do so much. That i'm never home and spending time with her.

The truth is that i'm not even able to sit by my computer at home on evenings cause she needs us to spend time together. I'm away scuba diving once every second month in best case, football maybe once every second week and watching football maybe once a week for two hours. Almost all other time we should do things together at home. I'm not even able to do stuff on the house cause she thinks i'm avoiding her then.

3, When you have lived with someone for over 10 years and been walking on eggshells almost as long then you notice if there is somthing nagging for her. She gets short in her tone and you are just waiting for the outburst.

The example above happened two weeks ago, the day after we spent 6 hours arguing that i was so selfish for going scubadiving. This is what takes all the fun away. I'm not even able to meet a friend after work or on a weekend on a coffee without arguing for hours why.

She has been physical abusive for many years and that is on me that i haven't left and i'm so ashamed of that. But that also made me to do pretty much anything to not upset her and i've totally lost myself in the process.

I never tell her that what she is feeling is wrong but that i have problems understanding her.

I know i have a lot to work on and i'm willing to do.

[formflier]

Short on time... .will write more later.

Please give me an example that ended up with physical abuse.

FF

[allienoah]

I can completely relate to your situation. I could be having a jovial conversation with my pwBPD bf and mention that I have been invited to do something with the girls. He either goes silent on me, then when asked what is wrong, he will launch into a million reasons why I shouldn't have even considered going (they're not really friends, I should be thinking of him first and so on). I typically make plans for weekends when he has his kids, but even that isn't good enough anymore. OR he will say "oh great, good for you" only to go ballistic as the day approaches. And yes he will call just before I have to leave, to again voice displeasure and "hold me hostage" as I call it, so I am late. Of course this sucks the fun out of any event I was planning on going to.
I really think this is manipulation. It must be so hard for you to deal with this as you are married. At least I can go home and close my door.

[AllNightLong]

Short on time... .will write more later.

Please give me an example that ended up with physical abuse.

FF

One time that comes to mind was last summer.
We had plans to go to town for some minor things. Breakfast got a bit late but we didn't have any time to make. But she started to get stressed anyway and Told me we leave in 35 minutes and i say ok. I know she is a bit slow getting ready so i propose i take the dishes and our kid so she can focus on herself. I'm Done with everything and ready to go to the car in 25 minutes. So now i sit down on the floor playing with our son when she comes out of the bathroom quite upset telling me that i'm making her stressed up! I tell her calmly that i didn't intend to do that but we are ready to go. I'm asking if i can help her with anything to help out.
The answer is that she shouldnt need to tell me i Should see what i can help her with. This makes me roll My eyes and she through her brush at me and hitting me in the head. Then she screams at me for almost one hour the most bisarr things and i'm trying to calm her down so she doesn't scare our little boy but she continues raging.

After that hour i say i need to leave for a while so she can calm down and i Will take a Walk with the kid and then come back.
When trying to leave she hits me on My ear with a fist and ending up breaking My eardrum. And i just sat down. When the evening came she had spit in My face, hit me several times on My back and stomach and broke an iPad when hitting me on My head.

It ended with me telling her i'm sorry.

After this we almost got divorced but she promised it would never happen again and stupid as i was i believed it.

All happend because she got stressed and i rolled My eyes and in that way didn't respect her.

[formflier]

All happend because she got stressed and i rolled My eyes and in that way didn't respect her.

This is what it "appears" to be... .but my quick analysis is this happened because of invalidation on your part and poor impulse control on her part.

Clarity:  You are not "at fault" for getting hit with a brush that she chucked at you... .you ARE responsible for the "inputs" that you "input" to a conversation/argument/relationship.

If those inputs are encouraging or "feeing" bad behavior/dysfunction... .you are responsible for changing what you can control.

I will write more later... .in a hurry.

Can you tell us your definition of validation and invalidation? 

I'm convinced we can help you get your life and relationship to a much better place!  How does that sound?

FF

[AllNightLong]

I can completely relate to your situation. I could be having a jovial conversation with my pwBPD bf and mention that I have been invited to do something with the girls. He either goes silent on me, then when asked what is wrong, he will launch into a million reasons why I shouldn't have even considered going (they're not really friends, I should be thinking of him first and so on). I typically make plans for weekends when he has his kids, but even that isn't good enough anymore. OR he will say "oh great, good for you" only to go ballistic as the day approaches. And yes he will call just before I have to leave, to again voice displeasure and "hold me hostage" as I call it, so I am late. Of course this sucks the fun out of any event I was planning on going to.
I really think this is manipulation. It must be so hard for you to deal with this as you are married. At least I can go home and close my door.

I agree on every word! I also think it's manipulation and i honestly don't know how to handle it.
I really hope this doesn't stop you from doing the things you enjoy!

[AllNightLong]

This is what it "appears" to be... .but my quick analysis is this happened because of invalidation on your part and poor impulse control on her part.

Clarity:  You are not "at fault" for getting hit with a brush that she chucked at you... .you ARE responsible for the "inputs" that you "input" to a conversation/argument/relationship.

If those inputs are encouraging or "feeing" bad behavior/dysfunction... .you are responsible for changing what you can control.

I will write more later... .in a hurry.

Can you tell us your definition of validation and invalidation? 

I'm convinced we can help you get your life and relationship to a much better place!  How does that sound?

FF

Thank you for your time and this is very interesting to hear a second opinion.
This is the first time ever i tell these things to anyone.

For me validation is when you show understanding but it doesn't meen you agree with the other person.

Invalidation is basicly ignoring or doesn't show any understanding about the other persons toughts and feelings

I really need a place to vent all My toughts and feelings cause this starting to be to big to carry alone.

[allienoah]

It definitely helps to vent on this and to hear that you are certainly not alone. He doesn't stop me from doing some things, but the idea of dealing with his anger DOES stop me from even considering other things. I shudder at the thought of going away for a girls weekend or anything of the sort. He would go ballistic. Yet, before I was with him I would do that often. It really is like being in a cage sometimes. You can try as my T suggested to keep silently telling yourself you are not going crazy, you are not wrong and you're not a liar. Just because you are called names, you don't have to believe them, and try to self validate. The more you make this your mantra, the less the outbursts will affect you. If I could tell you the levels of drama my bf set up when we fought/made up, it would baffle you. I did stop feeding into the drama and it helped a great deal.

[formflier]

For me validation is when you show understanding but it doesn't meen you agree with the other person.

Invalidation is basicly ignoring or doesn't show any understanding about the other persons toughts and feelings
 

Validation... .you basically have it.  It's about the other persons "feelings".  You are letting them know that you hear that they are angry, that you understand it... .and that it is "valid" for them to feel this way.  In other words, you are letting them know that reasonable people, given the same set of circumstances... .would likely feel this way.

Think of validation as "lubricant" for the relationship.  Things just run smoother when you validate.

Invalidation:  You are off quite a bit.  Not unusual for people in your position to lack understanding of this concept.

Invalidation is where you "disagree" or "tell" the other person their feelings are wrong.  Invalidation is much more powerful than validation.  For instance... .1 invalidation, likely "equals" 10 validations.  

Think how "warm and fuzzy" it feels to be around a person that "gets" you.  Now... .think about being around a person that doesn't "get you"... .and in fact that person keeps pointing out that "you are wrong"... ."your feelings are bad... .defective... "

I think you can get the point.

Focus first on avoiding invalidation.  Many times that will alleviate big relationship issues.  It's that powerful

There is a third thing to mention (we can focus on it later).  You don't want to "validate the invalid".  For instance... .if they feel you hate them or believe whacky things and there is no "basis in fact" for their belief... .you do not want to validate that.

You also don't want to "invalidate" it.  :)on't argue over it.

You just let them keep that belief... .and sort of "wish them luck" with it.

For now, can we focus on invalidation?

Can you read over your posts and find places where you "argued" or "invalidated" her worldview... .how she saw you... .etc etc?

Please quote or refer to a couple of those.  Once you can identify them... .then we can help you figure out what to do instead of invalidating.  Many times keeping our mouths shut does the trick... .  


FF

[AllNightLong]

Validation... .you basically have it.  It's about the other persons "feelings".  You are letting them know that you hear that they are angry, that you understand it... .and that it is "valid" for them to feel this way.  In other words, you are letting them know that reasonable people, given the same set of circumstances... .would likely feel this way.

Think of validation as "lubricant" for the relationship.  Things just run smoother when you validate.

Invalidation:  You are off quite a bit.  Not unusual for people in your position to lack understanding of this concept.

Invalidation is where you "disagree" or "tell" the other person their feelings are wrong.  Invalidation is much more powerful than validation.  For instance... .1 invalidation, likely "equals" 10 validations.  

Think how "warm and fuzzy" it feels to be around a person that "gets" you.  Now... .think about being around a person that doesn't "get you"... .and in fact that person keeps pointing out that "you are wrong"... ."your feelings are bad... .defective... "

I think you can get the point.

Focus first on avoiding invalidation.  Many times that will alleviate big relationship issues.  It's that powerful

There is a third thing to mention (we can focus on it later).  You don't want to "validate the invalid".  For instance... .if they feel you hate them or believe whacky things and there is no "basis in fact" for their belief... .you do not want to validate that.

You also don't want to "invalidate" it.  :)on't argue over it.

You just let them keep that belief... .and sort of "wish them luck" with it.

For now, can we focus on invalidation?

Can you read over your posts and find places where you "argued" or "invalidated" her worldview... .how she saw you... .etc etc?

Please quote or refer to a couple of those.  Once you can identify them... .then we can help you figure out what to do instead of invalidating.  Many times keeping our mouths shut does the trick... .  


FF

Thank you for your description. I think i understand what you meen.
Unfortunetly i'm short in time but for exempel Rolling My eyes and try to explain my intensions is some example.

[formflier]

I'll point out some invalidation below.  

Me: Good morning, how have you slept? Can i give you any breakfast?
Her: Oh i'm so tired! Don't ask me that, you are just stressing me out i can make my own damn breakfast.
Me: Ok sorry, i didn't mean to offend you just asking if you wanted something to eat?
Her: Oh yeah? Don't do that. Now you ruined my whole day, make me feel good again!
Me: I Apologize and say it was a mistake and i didn't mean anything more than what i asked.
Her: Do you think it will be enough that you only apologize? You should make me feel good again. Don't even think about leaving me and go diving. I Can't take the kids feeling like this. You are always doing this you depressed idiot.

OK... .some of her feelings are things you don't want to agree with or validate... .however... even a feeling she has that you DON'T want to validate... .is one that you also don't want to INVALIDATE.

In other words... just because her feeling is wrong... .you don't want to convince her of this.  Just let it be.

 

Just because she believes YOU feel a certain way... or she believes you intended to ruin her day... .DOES NOT mean that you have to answer that... or deal with it in any way.

Step one to avoiding invalidation is usually to hush or find a way to disengage.

Can you see how your "explanations" or "defenses" that I bolded are "arguing" with her version or her "feelings" about you?

Look at her one "bolded" comment where "you should make me feel good again".  That is classic BPD.  They "externalize" their feelings.  She is trying to make YOU responsible for HER feelings.

Big picture values that you need to adopt.  Every adult is responsible for their own feelings

Almost as important.  You should not try to convince her of this.  Convince yourself, change your behavior, let her sort herself out.

How does all this sound?  

What does invalidation mean to you now?

FF

[AllNightLong]

I'll point out some invalidation below.  


OK... .some of her feelings are things you don't want to agree with or validate... .however... even a feeling she has that you DON'T want to validate... .is one that you also don't want to INVALIDATE.

In other words... just because her feeling is wrong... .you don't want to convince her of this.  Just let it be.

 

Just because she believes YOU feel a certain way... or she believes you intended to ruin her day... .DOES NOT mean that you have to answer that... or deal with it in any way.

Step one to avoiding invalidation is usually to hush or find a way to disengage.

Can you see how your "explanations" or "defenses" that I bolded are "arguing" with her version or her "feelings" about you?

Look at her one "bolded" comment where "you should make me feel good again".  That is classic BPD.  They "externalize" their feelings.  She is trying to make YOU responsible for HER feelings.

Big picture values that you need to adopt.  Every adult is responsible for their own feelings

Almost as important.  You should not try to convince her of this.  Convince yourself, change your behavior, let her sort herself out.

How does all this sound?  

What does invalidation mean to you now?

FF

You are absolutely right!

I'be always felt obligated to answer and explaining and i didn't see that i invalidated her feelings by doing that.

Is the best thing to just be quite or how can we handle this when we are in the situation?

[formflier]

Is the best thing to just be quite or how can we handle this when we are in the situation?

Being quiet is better than what was happening.  As you gain skill and understanding, you will be able to engage him more, in a healthy way.


Let's look at your example about breakfast.

Me: Good morning, how have you slept? Can i give you any breakfast?
Her: Oh i'm so tired! Don't ask me that, you are just stressing me out i can make my own damn breakfast.
Me: Ok sorry, i didn't mean to offend you just asking if you wanted something to eat?

Big picture:  Live your life, don't let her make decisions for you. 

So... "I'm making xyz for breakfast.  Would you like me to bring you some."  (note... this is very small point... .but I want you to think about mindset)  Which is, you are living your life, making breakfast for you and your child... .AND... .you are inviting her along... .not demanding.  She has choices.  You will respect those.

she says the "i'll get my own damn breakfast thing... ."

Attitude is important.  Her response is over the top and deserves some "shock and concern".  I know this usually leads to an a$$ chewing... .but you have to make sure you show no fear.

A few responses that work... .

"Ok... "  (walk away and go have breakfast with kid)

"I'll certainly respect your feelings... "  (walk away)

Here is the thing... .it's over.  You are now enjoying breakfast... .she has made her choice... you have made yours.

If she wants to badger you further.  Let her know it's not a good time, but that she is important to you and you will be available to talk 6pm (or whenever).

FF

[formflier]

When is your next football day where she would need to watch the kid?

Make sure you have childcare set up, don't tell her this ahead of time.

When she tries to use kid to stop your agreed upon plans, give her choice.  "I'd be happy to handle childcare as well if you are not able to care for Junior... .or you can keep him with you.  Please let me know which you prefer."

If she doesn't give you an answer... .take him with you.

Don't convince her, explain it later... .justify... any of that.

You solved her need... .and yours.  Move along. 

Can you see the mindset behind the "tactics" I am giving you?

FF

[AllNightLong]

When is your next football day where she would need to watch the kid?

Make sure you have childcare set up, don't tell her this ahead of time.

When she tries to use kid to stop your agreed upon plans, give her choice.  "I'd be happy to handle childcare as well if you are not able to care for Junior... .or you can keep him with you.  Please let me know which you prefer."

If she doesn't give you an answer... .take him with you.

Don't convince her, explain it later... .justify... any of that.

You solved her need... .and yours.  Move along. 

Can you see the mindset behind the "tactics" I am giving you?

FF

Don't have anything planned but i Will for sure have all of this in mind.

Yeah i totally get what you meen, i doing some of this already today when i try to make sure everything Will be as easy as possible for her when i'm away.

Thank you for all the answers and explenations.

[formflier]

Umm... One thing you should think about stopping.  Anything related to "making things easy for her".

Respect her.  Respect that she is an adult... .A capable parent and can solve her own problems.

If she needs your help, she will ask.  You are not obligated to do everything she asks.

FF

[AllNightLong]

Umm... One thing you should think about stopping.  Anything related to "making things easy for her".

Respect her.  Respect that she is an adult... .A capable parent and can solve her own problems.

If she needs your help, she will ask.  You are not obligated to do everything she asks.

FF

Of course, what i ment was that i usually try to plan ahead like having a babysitter in mind and so on.
But also i'm simplify to much for her and one thing that i think is a huge mistake is that she never need to take responsibility for her own actions. She can always blame me and since i hate arguing i just suck it up and put it inside me.

[formflier]

Of course, what i ment was that i usually try to plan ahead like having a babysitter in mind and so on.
 

Hey... .just to be clear.  The idea was for you to have a BACKUP babysitter/fallout plan.

You need to live your life.  Your kids need proper care.  Hopefully with disengagement and "not taking the bait" on arguments, you wife can stay regulated and care for kids. 

However, if she dysregulates you want to be able to go on with your day AND have the kids cared for.  Once she learns that "pitching a fit" doesn't work anymore and you go on living your life, it is likely that she won't pitch a fit as much.

Thoughts? 

Disengagement is the key... .don't argue with her.

FF

[AllNightLong]

Hey... .just to be clear.  The idea was for you to have a BACKUP babysitter/fallout plan.

You need to live your life.  Your kids need proper care.  Hopefully with disengagement and "not taking the bait" on arguments, you wife can stay regulated and care for kids. 

However, if she dysregulates you want to be able to go on with your day AND have the kids cared for.  Once she learns that "pitching a fit" doesn't work anymore and you go on living your life, it is likely that she won't pitch a fit as much.

Thoughts? 

Disengagement is the key... .don't argue with her.

FF

It feels soo hard to switch and focus on my life when i haven't Done that for so long.
I just feel that i'm not strong enough in My opinions and my boundries... She runs me over like a train. She does whatever it takes to get what she want and i'm to weak to stand for what i believe in.

[formflier]

It feels soo hard to switch and focus on my life when i haven't Done that for so long.
I just feel that i'm not strong enough in My opinions and my boundries... She runs me over like a train. She does whatever it takes to get what she want and i'm to weak to stand for what i believe in.

I'm glad you made this post.  It was a strong and insightful thing to do.  Being honest with yourself is critical.

Then... here is my recommendation.  Don't change any of your patterns until you are "strong enough" to hold.

Read the link before to understand why this is critical

https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=85479.0

If you try to hold and cave in... .it is much worse than if you had never tried to hold in the first place.  

Do you understand that from the article?

Can you explain to us why this is so?

Again... good insight...       

This is not easy stuff.

FF

[AllNightLong]

I'm glad you made this post.  It was a strong and insightful thing to do.  Being honest with yourself is critical.

Then... here is my recommendation.  Don't change any of your patterns until you are "strong enough" to hold.

Read the link before to understand why this is critical

https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=85479.0

If you try to hold and cave in... .it is much worse than if you had never tried to hold in the first place.  

Do you understand that from the article?

Can you explain to us why this is so?

Again... good insight...       

This is not easy stuff.

FF

Thank you for your support!

I read the article and as i understands it, If i cave in she will know that as long as she pushes hard enough i Will take care of ger emotions or problems for her and a NO will become a Yes eventually.

This is something happening all the time right now. I cave in way to easily just because i don't have the energy to argue and fight. She usually start raging about all different things IF i try to say no. These days it's easier just to say yes and ignore My own feelings about it.

[enlighten me]

Something else to think about is fear of abandonment. By going out without her your abandoning her. Could this be whats happening?

My ex wife would do similar but due to my job and moving I didn't have a social life that would lead to this. I did however get the push pull when I was off to work.

[AllNightLong]

Something else to think about is fear of abandonment. By going out without her your abandoning her. Could this be whats happening?

My ex wife would do similar but due to my job and moving I didn't have a social life that would lead to this. I did however get the push pull when I was off to work.

Yes that is also a point. She hate when i'm telling her that i Will do something on My own. Also she sometimes scream for divorce and that i should leave her alone. But when leaving the house she will start to call me or sending text asking me to come back cause she needs me... Is this fimiliar to you?

[formflier]

These days it's easier just to say yes and ignore My own feelings about it.

Do you think you would be able to avoid committing either way... .as an interim step.

She "demands" something.

"Oh... I see... .well, this is the first I've thought of it.  Let me think this through and let you know tomorrow night.  Will 6pm work for you to talk?"

What would she do with something like this?

FF

[AllNightLong]

Do you think you would be able to avoid committing either way... .as an interim step.

She "demands" something.

"Oh... I see... .well, this is the first I've thought of it.  Let me think this through and let you know tomorrow night.  Will 6pm work for you to talk?"

What would she do with something like this?

FF

It would be worth a try, my expectations is that she will not let it go and nagging about it until i give her an answer and will not wait until the even if agreed proposed time.

We are right now in a big fight, she called me all different names yesterday and acted real bad and i fall through and felt soo annoyed and angry but i didn't say anything mean to her.
After 7 hours of silent treatment and raging she told me that she want a divorce, that i should be gone when she got back with the kids.

So for the first time ever i was the one leaving the house, i packed a bag and just left and turned of my phone.

Unfortunetly i turned it backed on for another reason and found a LOT of new messages. It started with rage that i should never come back and we are here on divorced! To please come back we can do this i love you!

I fall through and answered the phone when she texted that she couldn't take of the kids and she begged me to come home that it all was a stupid mistake.

I feel soo bad for this but i went back home. We had actually a real good talk (i thought at least) where i told her that i had problems being honest with her because of her reactions. She told me that her reactions should stand for her and i should always be honest (what the heck? she really said that?) and i told her i will do so.

So i went out to the car and grabbed my bag and when she saw that i packed it she went on silent treatment and now i was the evil one again. I left her! How could I?

So this morning she wanted me to skip work and be home but i refused since i have some meetings i can't miss. So now she have been texting me all morning about how sick i am, that she now lay in bed and not feeling well and it's all up to me to make everything work again. I should take care of her feelings and make it all go away.

I can't deal with this sh*t anymore and don't know what to do. I think the best is that i leave her for good but now is a real bad time but it probably never will be a good time either.

Thoughts? 

[formflier]

Dude... .   

The point of kicking the can down the road is to avoid the arguments.  She is "handing you" her problems and YOU are deciding to pick them up.

Leave those issues where your wife tosses them.  Even if she tosses them at you... step aside, let them sit on the floor (do you get the visual?)

Text her that you have a busy work day and you will check in on her at 4pm (whatever an hour before you leave is).  Make sure to check in on her then... .

Bring her some extra soup on whatever she asks... .

Future conversations:  Listen as good as you can, give her heads up you can listen for 5 more minutes but will come back to it later.  Make sure you come back later.

This is going to be hard for you... .she won't make it easier... .YOU MUST PREVAIL on these boundaries.

So... .get it straight in your mind that you will end a conversation until later... then end it.  No waffling.  Remember extinction burst and intermittent reinforcement.

FF

[formflier]

Just remembered an interim step.

If you are not strong enough to walk away... .I'm guessing you are not.

Her "blather blather I'm sick kids are pain in the ass blather blather... ."

Use STOP format.

S = Sorry you feel that way

T = That's your opinion or (Thanks for your opinion)

O = Ohhh or (ohhh my)

P = Perhaps you are right or (perhaps you are right... .let me think about this)

wash rinse repeat.

Notice... .she never gets any information to argue with.  It goes around and around.  The only explanation you can give is "this is first I have heard of it, I'll need to think it through... ."

Try to avoid that...

FF

[AllNightLong]

Dude... .   

The point of kicking the can down the road is to avoid the arguments.  She is "handing you" her problems and YOU are deciding to pick them up.

Leave those issues where your wife tosses them.  Even if she tosses them at you... step aside, let them sit on the floor (do you get the visual?)

Text her that you have a busy work day and you will check in on her at 4pm (whatever an hour before you leave is).  Make sure to check in on her then... .

Bring her some extra soup on whatever she asks... .

Future conversations:  Listen as good as you can, give her heads up you can listen for 5 more minutes but will come back to it later.  Make sure you come back later.

This is going to be hard for you... .she won't make it easier... .YOU MUST PREVAIL on these boundaries.

So... .get it straight in your mind that you will end a conversation until later... then end it.  No waffling.  Remember extinction burst and intermittent reinforcement.

FF

Thank you once again for your excellent answers.

Yes i know she's handling me the problem and i know i'm picking them up. I just don't know have to avoid it, she really knows how to get my attention and how to make me believe that it's up to me to take care of it. Even when it screams inside me that it's up to her to handle the issue i still do it.


I tried to avoid all arguments but she really gets under my skin. I just start to feel i don't deserve all the crap she is giving me.

About the STOP i'm almost there it's the O and P i need to work a bit harder on.

I just don't feel she understands that the problem is on her and it's not mine or anyone elses thing to deal with.
 

[formflier]

I just don't feel she understands that the problem is on her and it's not mine or anyone elses thing to deal with.
 

She doesn't understand that BECAUSE other people have handled it for her.  The longer this goes on... .the harder it will be... .if ever... for her to understand who is responsible for what.

I know this looks scary to you.  I was there.

Grab some popcorn... .FF memory theater is about to begin.   Yeah... .unfortunately it's a horror movie.

FF was too much of a wuss to keep his wife out of his email.  She would find stuff... .twist it into all kinds of crazy... .she would finally "forgive" me for things I never did... .wash... rinse... .repeat...    

This was before I "knew".

Well... .the senior guys on bpdfamily got to me and let me know that I "must hold" whenever I tried a boundary.

My first boundary was going to be my email.  I changed the password and for a couple weeks my wife pretended not to notice.  Then she asked gently... .I figured I had "gotten away with it... "  Riiiiiiight   

She expressed herself more forcefully... .I stayed calm and told her I was not hiding, but was being private and protecting my other relationships.

She was very frustrated I wouldn't "bite" and have it out.

Well... .that night I wanted to have sex.  Luckily I was prepared for anything as the bpdfamily guys had warned me she would "try a new tool". 

All prudes exit the thread... .FF is about to get busy... .   

Well... .she has her hand on my "member" (which is unusual)... so she can "guide it in".  She lets me feel the outside and as I start to push in she directs me away... .

I assume that she once again is having problems with my massiveness (been a lifelong issue for me... .   )... .

Nope... .

IN a husky voice... .think fatal attraction... ."FF... .I'll let you  in there if you give me your password... .you know you want in there... ."

Dude... .

I've been c@ck blocked before... .but... .that kinda crosses a line... .   

Somehow I held it together... .didn't react.  I rolled off and said something to the effect of "that's ok... "

She doesn't really react either.

After a few minutes of her fuming... .I kid you not... .she acts like it's not big deal... .invites me back over to have sex.  I did so... .

I survived the first extinction burst in fine form.  Over the years she will ___ and moan about the password... .I don't pay it any attention.

It's been maybe 6 months since she mentioned it.

I tell you this to "on the one hand" warn you to be ready... .but also to assure you that if you hold... you will find hope.

Thoughts?

FF

[AllNightLong]

She doesn't understand that BECAUSE other people have handled it for her.  The longer this goes on... .the harder it will be... .if ever... for her to understand who is responsible for what.

I know this looks scary to you.  I was there.

Grab some popcorn... .FF memory theater is about to begin.   Yeah... .unfortunately it's a horror movie.

FF was too much of a wuss to keep his wife out of his email.  She would find stuff... .twist it into all kinds of crazy... .she would finally "forgive" me for things I never did... .wash... rinse... .repeat...    

This was before I "knew".

Well... .the senior guys on bpdfamily got to me and let me know that I "must hold" whenever I tried a boundary.

My first boundary was going to be my email.  I changed the password and for a couple weeks my wife pretended not to notice.  Then she asked gently... .I figured I had "gotten away with it... "  Riiiiiiight   

She expressed herself more forcefully... .I stayed calm and told her I was not hiding, but was being private and protecting my other relationships.

She was very frustrated I wouldn't "bite" and have it out.

Well... .that night I wanted to have sex.  Luckily I was prepared for anything as the bpdfamily guys had warned me she would "try a new tool". 

All prudes exit the thread... .FF is about to get busy... .   

Well... .she has her hand on my "member" (which is unusual)... so she can "guide it in".  She lets me feel the outside and as I start to push in she directs me away... .

I assume that she once again is having problems with my massiveness (been a lifelong issue for me... .   )... .

Nope... .

IN a husky voice... .think fatal attraction... ."FF... .I'll let you  in there if you give me your password... .you know you want in there... ."

Dude... .

I've been c@ck blocked before... .but... .that kinda crosses a line... .   

Somehow I held it together... .didn't react.  I rolled off and said something to the effect of "that's ok... "

She doesn't really react either.

After a few minutes of her fuming... .I kid you not... .she acts like it's not big deal... .invites me back over to have sex.  I did so... .

I survived the first extinction burst in fine form.  Over the years she will ___ and moan about the password... .I don't pay it any attention.

It's been maybe 6 months since she mentioned it.

I tell you this to "on the one hand" warn you to be ready... .but also to assure you that if you hold... you will find hope.

Thoughts?

FF

Wow, thank you for that story! It made my day 200% better :D

I will definetly do my best to keep my boundries even if it will be so tough since i'm at least as much of a wuss now that you weren before then
I think you should be glad yours didn't rage at you at least in the "situation" you were in

[formflier]

I think you should be glad yours didn't rage at you at least in the "situation" you were in

Oh... .there was plenty of rage... .just not then. 

So... that's one of the big points of the story.  When they figure out the "current tool" (rage in your case) isn't working... .they will grab another... .then another.

You job is to make sure they don't work... .and... .hopefully... .provide them "healthy tools" or options they can choose to have a relationship with you.

Either way... .respect the choices they make... .insist they respect your choices.

FF

[AllNightLong]

Oh... .there was plenty of rage... .just not then. 

So... that's one of the big points of the story.  When they figure out the "current tool" (rage in your case) isn't working... .they will grab another... .then another.

You job is to make sure they don't work... .and... .hopefully... .provide them "healthy tools" or options they can choose to have a relationship with you.

Either way... .respect the choices they make... .insist they respect your choices.

FF

Haha ok.

Yes that is My job and from now on i Will do everything i can to stick to it!
It will even be a bit interesting to see how she will react on it.

Thanks for all the support!

[formflier]

It will even be a bit interesting to see how she will react on it.
 

Of course I'm going to keep pressing  on certain points... .

Hopefully you won't know how she reacts... .  Trust that she is an adult and will sort this out...

Excuse yourself and go on about your business... .coming back to the conversation when you said you would.

If she is still out of control... .(lets say 4 hours later)... .excuse yourself again... .  wash rinse... .repeat

You can do it!   

https://youtu.be/BQ4yd2W50No


FF