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Author Topic: This could be the right time to split.  (Read 911 times)
Cipher13
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« on: March 15, 2017, 12:59:09 PM »

We have moved several times over the years. Getting the house ready to put up for sale. We haven't been there 5 months yet I don't think. Should have left the relationship upon selling the house the last time. Now might be another time to do that again. I need a lot of help and support to do so even though you'd think it would be easy to leave by this point. I had a counseling appointment last week that went as well as you could hope for. For me it did anyway. The light bulb light up and he said
"You are not in a marriage and I am a very strong supporter and believer in marriage so I don't say this lightly. You have 2 options if you want to be reasonably happy. Stay and learn ways to support yourself or get out. Either way you have to stand up and not let her do this to you anymore. You are letting it happen. You are fueling it."

I already knew this in my own gut, but having a professional (I know everyone in here has more or less hinted at this the same way) say it to me gave me a bit of validation I was missing. my wife wanted to make sure some topics were discussed. Normally I do not like the sound of that but this time I agreed whole heartily. After reading it he was flabbergasted. He said I'm sorry I have been giving you the wrong advice.

My wife thought in her own mind that what she listed in that note was going to "fix me" make it so she didn't hate me and think of me as such a waste of a person that disgusts her more everyday just by the sight or thought of me.

So I need help she is looking at houses closer to her job. We are putting ours up for sale. I don't want to go with her. I also want her to go by herself.
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« Reply #1 on: March 15, 2017, 01:07:39 PM »



   

The lightbulb has come on!  OK... .now what to do about it.

To make it more interesting... .there is a move and some house buying and selling going on.

If you could time the split for a time when you own no houses at all... .that could be simpler. 

There is an emotional decision for you to make about the future of the r/s.

There are also practicalities.  What will my life looking out "out" of the r/s... .money and living arrangements are a big part of that.

This is also not something to "guess" at... .because "guessing" wrong is really bad. 

You need to interview some attorneys and make sure you understand how a divorce could go... .what is "probably"... .what is "guaranteed"... .etc etc.  Once you have a clear picture of that, you can make better decisions about your future plans.

   

Hang in there.

FF
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« Reply #2 on: March 15, 2017, 06:08:58 PM »

So I need help she is looking at houses closer to her job. We are putting ours up for sale. I don't want to go with her. I also want her to go by herself.

Let me translate: You want her to leave you.

FIRST: Do NOT "talk" about divorce or separation with her. Trust me--she will blow up at you worse than she normally does. Nothing good will come of that. Doesn't matter if she's threatened to leave you / kick you out a thousand times, the first time it comes out of your mouth, it changes everything for her.

Only mention it when you have a plan in place, with an attorney who is familiar with high conflict divorces, and then tell her in the way you plan to, according to plan.

Q: She wants to start looking to buy a house that you do not wish to buy... .how long do you expect that this looking phase can go on before it becomes time to make a serious offer?

I would suggest that having joint ownership of any house with her is a messy situation you don't want right now. When all the legal dust settles, you won't be forced to sell it, and won't have a fight over who gets to live there.

How hard would it be to convince her that renting makes more sense than buying right now?
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« Reply #3 on: March 16, 2017, 12:15:38 AM »

I have to ask: What advice had the counselor been giving you and what was on the list your wife made?
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Cipher13
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« Reply #4 on: March 16, 2017, 11:52:18 AM »

FF good points to consider. I do not want to guess or assume anything. I will get burned taking that approach.

Grey Kitty: Translation is correct. I have not talked about divorce. She has always brought it up and uses it I think as a jab to get a reaction. The looking phase was short and offer was put into place. However I do not see it being accepted. They are not willing to lower price. Lots of improvement need to be made. It will not appraise for what they are asking. Suggesting rental is and had  never been met with anything other than resistance. 

LindaDH
The counselor was focused originally on developing romantic acts of love and to openly make outwardly attempts at pursuing and romancing her. In other words giving her everything she has been asking for but over doing it. He has never met her so wouldn't consider assuming her having BPD or any other disorder on just my discussions with him. The list 1. Says She hates me.
2. Says she doesn't love me anymore.
3. All I do is say I'll do better and I don't do anything different.
She is sick of waiting for me to show how I love her and sick of waiting for me to validate her as a woman.
4. She doesn't trust me.
5. Everyday she hates me even more.
6. Just the sight of me makes her sick and sets her off.

That's all that I recall.
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« Reply #5 on: March 16, 2017, 01:07:18 PM »

Grey Kitty: Translation is correct. I have not talked about divorce. She has always brought it up and uses it I think as a jab to get a reaction.

OK. You want her to leave you. I'm really glad to see you have some clarity about that. Now, here's the bad news: it won't happen that way. No chance of it. Zero.

She doesn't want to leave you. She wants to keep you around as an emotional punching bag, and one of the punches she throws is the divorce threat.I'm not saying she understands she's doing this... .just that if her actions from over a decade are doing this, she isn't going to change course now!

What I mean is you won't get out of this marriage without being the "bad guy" and either kicking her out or moving out yourself.

Excerpt
The looking phase was short and offer was put into place. However I do not see it being accepted. They are not willing to lower price. Lots of improvement need to be made. It will not appraise for what they are asking. Suggesting rental is and had  never been met with anything other than resistance.

Crapola. You may have screwed yourself by signing the offer. (I'm assuming you both signed as a joint purchase agreement)

If you want to get "out" of this, especially if you want to get out with more than the shirt on your back and a load of her debts, you have to stand up for yourself better than that.

If you are correct that the offer won't be accepted, you might get a brief reprieve, but you have to stand up to her.

Don't sign another offer to buy a house in a place you don't want to live with a person you don't want to live with!
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« Reply #6 on: March 16, 2017, 01:08:06 PM »

Well... that's a lovely list... .   

Hang in there...

I DO think you should explore the splitting option.  You need to fully understand what that will be like.  THEN you can make a better... .more informed... .decision

In my case, meetings with lawyers and getting organized emboldened me to have better boundaries... .after all... .if she got pissed and divorced me... .well... .I was ready.

It also helped me understand what "facts" I need to keep up with, what things I need to record... .just in case.

FF
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« Reply #7 on: March 16, 2017, 01:09:50 PM »

 but you have to stand up to her.

Don't sign another offer to buy a house in a place you don't want to live with a person you don't want to live with!

Or a lease... .

This is HUGE deal... .

Your life is obviously complicated... .don't make it more so... .

FF
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« Reply #8 on: March 16, 2017, 03:09:36 PM »

You have moved over and over in the past years... .how much equity do you have in your current house?

If the moving has cut into building equity, and if the offer is not accepted on the next house, you may be in a position to NOT participate in a counteroffer and just sign the current house over to her and leave.

Is that a possibility? 
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« Reply #9 on: March 16, 2017, 04:18:40 PM »

sign the current house over to her and leave.
 

Who is on the mortgage for the current house you are living in?

I'm assuming that both of you are on the deed... .

Correct?

FF
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Cipher13
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« Reply #10 on: March 17, 2017, 06:16:54 AM »

The offer was not accepted or rejected by the seller. It just lapsed due to timeline that was given. So that's the update there.  As far as current equity in the house we have now? Zip. We never stay long enough to build much of any up. We will sell at a loss or break even at best. We are both on the mortgage on the current home. I can not sign the current house over to her. She can't afford to keep up the payments. I think best option is to sell and then make the break.

Grey Kitty: Yes I know she won't leave and have known that for a long time. Still its a nice dream to have. I know I will have to be the one to do it or it will never happen. And yes I'll be the bad guys. But tis not like I am all that good in her eyes anyway. Just don't understand why I have waited this long and why I still wait.
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« Reply #11 on: March 17, 2017, 06:55:48 AM »


Is your current home on the market? 

Is it in good shape to sell?

FF
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Cipher13
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« Reply #12 on: March 17, 2017, 09:58:33 AM »

I am making a few improvements but it will be next week sometime.
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« Reply #13 on: March 17, 2017, 12:47:21 PM »

Grey Kitty: Yes I know she won't leave and have known that for a long time. Still its a nice dream to have.

Yeah, there are a lot of dreams we have about how things will be better with our pwBPD that never happen. In a way it is kinda sad to get down to the point where the only such dream left is that she will leave peacefully.

Excerpt
I know I will have to be the one to do it or it will never happen. And yes I'll be the bad guys. But tis not like I am all that good in her eyes anyway. Just don't understand why I have waited this long and why I still wait.

Hey, man, I know how feeling stuck works, and I'm pretty stuck myself today. (Not in an abusive r/s; more about moving on with my life here... .)

Why am I waiting? I think what it comes down to is that at some level I don't really believe I'm worth the effort to get moving, I don't believe that I'm worth dragging myself out, or where I'm trying to go is worth the effort of getting myself there. So I only put in 10% or 25% effort at best. This "mystery" fits into behavior patterns I've had at least since my age hit double digits. Honestly if I *really* understood it, I would be busy living my life, excited about it, and probably not have all the spare time I'm spending on these forums.

Perhaps your reasons for waiting are similarly buried in old patterns and habits of yours?



Anyhow... .sounds like if you can find the backbone to simply refuse to sign an offer on another house, you will avoid more financial entanglements that you will need to cut.

Instead of "why do you wait?" let me ask you instead:

What would it look like if you took action?

(Steps you can do without tipping your hand, while you are making plans / thinking about it... .)

Talk to a lawyer, make a plan for dividing up financial assets and making it through the divorce?

Do you have a bank account in just your name, or are all assets joint? If not, open an account in your name, whether you fund it or not.

Find a place to live so you can move out? Can you move in with friends or parents for a while? Rent an apartment for yourself, nearer where you are working?

Do you have an address you can use for correspondence, like with your bank that she won't see, like your work, your parents, etc.?


(steps to take that are clearly visible, after you have decided and have a full plan in place)

Move out in the dark of night and leave a letter or an email?
Tell her you are leaving at the end of the month, and hope she doesn't kill you in your sleep (just kidding, I hope!)?



Does thinking about it this way make you feel relieved, terrified, sad, guilty, or all of the above?
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« Reply #14 on: March 18, 2017, 01:22:34 PM »

Should have left the relationship upon selling the house the last time.

I'm adhering to the guidelines here - I can't suggest that you stay or go.

What I CAN offer is my own personal experiences to help give you an idea of what MIGHT happen in the future if you go against your gut right now.

We started out living in separate apartments. There were several signs that I wasn't going to be happy in the long run, but nevertheless I persisted.

We combined our apartments into one. There were many new and intense reasons to say this wasn't working. Nevertheless, I persisted.

I proposed to her in Europe, on the last day of our vacation. I spent the preceding 5 days agonizing over the decision to propose. Nevertheless, I persisted.

We got married. We bought a house. She LEFT me to move in with a boyfriend. We sold the house. She moved back in with me in a shared apartment. We bought another more expensive house. My pwBPD got pregnant. She miscarried. We tried even harder to have a kid. We have one now. We're talking about going through new treatments to have another kid.

EVERY step had the warning signs that said "maybe this isn't going to work out," and every time I ignored them.

My wife thought in her own mind that what she listed in that note was going to "fix me" make it so she didn't hate me and think of me as such a waste of a person that disgusts her more everyday just by the sight or thought of me.

It's probably not you. And the best advice I can offer is to trust your gut and follow it as far as you can.

Good luck Cipher13. My thoughts are fully with you.

DB
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« Reply #15 on: March 20, 2017, 10:55:04 AM »

Sell your current house without buying a new one with her. That solves a major headache.  And dude - this is a cold hearted thing to say but you're talking about a high conflict divorce with a BPD that has already set a precedent for punishing you for every perceived fault, actually leaving and filing for divorce - she'll be hellbent on punishing you to a level you've never seen before.  Expect her to make false abuse claims, even call cops - everything in the BPD playbook.  DO NOT go into this fight with a "fight fair" and "open hearted" attitude.  You're going to war.  Keep your cards hidden, anything and everything will be used against you by her to the maximum extent possible. 

Find your own accommodations, take a day off work, and move.  Seriously.  Just be gone.  Take the things that are of value to you, your personal property, sentimentals, etc.  But I'd advise to leave the couches, kitchen table, etc. unless they are family heirlooms of yours, in which case take them.  But you can buy decent furniture for dirt cheap at Goodwill.  It's easily replaced.  Anything easily replaced and not sentimental, leave it.  Not worth the fight she'll make over it.

Open a new bank account, close any and all joint accounts, banking and credit, and take every cent in the accounts.  You can account for it in your financial affidavits and factor things fairly in the division of assets in the divorce.

Then have her served with divorce papers.  There are no kids, very little in the way of joint assets.  And she has a job, and has worked most of the marriage. 

Start thinking about documenting her abuse.  You've got the counselor on board now.  What texts, emails, etc do you have?  I found an app for my phone called "SMS backup" that backups texts to a Gmail account.  It's free, and simple.  Change all your passwords so she can't get in there.  And I'd recommend going radio silent on all social media - FB, etc.  Clear out anything on home computers as well.  Wipe it clean.

Don't give any warning on this.  Don't give her your address.  Get a PO Box.  And maybe rent a basement or room from a private individual so it's easier to stay hidden.  Use your lawyers address for official correspondence.  She isn't going to be fair about any of this, so put yourself and your interests first. 

That will include letting her scramble to find a place to live when you sell the house, don't buy a new one, and head for your own place you've already got set up.  It's gonna leave her in the lurch.  You're going to feel guilty as hell.  Just remember, you didn't abuse her.  She's only reaping what she's sown and you don't have to feel guilty for that.  Remember that she'll be out to hurt you as bad as she can after this, and honestly, if she's distracted having to find her own way for a while, it will be better for you that way.

Maybe let your family know what's about to go down, but keep it quiet.  If they can't be trusted to not let the cat out of the bag, then maybe not tell them until you've separated from her.  Same goes for coworkers, friends, etc.  If there's any chance of them even accidentally giving you away, then don't tell them ahead of time.

There's probably more detailed prep work to do - I'd recommend you head over to the divorce board and ask for more input.
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« Reply #16 on: March 21, 2017, 05:05:42 AM »

Wow Waddams
What's scary about what you detailed is a lot of the same things have been looming in my mind for a while now. I guess it shouldn't be scary when it is really the only and safest option. Still its hard to think that someone that supposed cares or cared for you would go through all that effort to character assonate you. But it is something that I need to continue to be mindful of in this. Thanks.
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« Reply #17 on: March 21, 2017, 05:52:45 AM »

Based on her past behaviors (as I remember), she could also try to show up at your workplace and or attempt to harm your work reputation. Should she make threats or try this, let your supervisor and HR know what's going on. Believe me... .they've heard it all before, seen it too. They can help.
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« Reply #18 on: March 21, 2017, 07:38:37 AM »


I would do a lot of prep work... .but hold off on "pulling the trigger" until the house actually closes.

Is your credit good?  I have seen pwBPD intentionally screw up their own finances... .to "harm" the person leaving.

So... .closing and paying off the existing mortgage is a big deal for your future.


if things get bad... .perhaps you could just hold out until there is a contract.

The payoff is in the prep work and thinking things through...

FF
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« Reply #19 on: March 21, 2017, 11:47:59 AM »

Excerpt
Wow Waddams
What's scary about what you detailed is a lot of the same things have been looming in my mind for a while now. I guess it shouldn't be scary when it is really the only and safest option. Still its hard to think that someone that supposed cares or cared for you would go through all that effort to character assonate you. But it is something that I need to continue to be mindful of in this. Thanks.

This is the thing that's the toughest pill of harsh reality and painful truth to swallow - SHE DOESN'T CARE FOR YOU THE WAY YOU'VE CARED FOR HER.  You've seen her over the years change and adapt her abuse tactics to get around your attempts to set boundaries.  It's PURPOSEFUL. 

People that care for you wouldn't do that.  Now, there's all kinds of dysfunction and mental illness and other what not you could go into that explains her behavior.  It could be a result of past abuse she experienced, all kinds of other issues, etc.  The point is, none of it is a free pass for her to treat you the way she has, and none of it is reason that you have to put up with the abuse.  The details of what's behind her behavior COULD BE all kinds of things, but the details don't matter.  What matters is that she's been very abusive for a long time, nothing justifies it and makes it okay, and you're responsible to yourself to protect yourself and get away from it. 

It takes 2 to make these situations keep going, at some point the abused person is responsible for their decision to stay and put up with it.  That's the part that's on you, and that's the part you have the power to address and correct.  You've always had the power to do it.  You've just got to take action.  Realize putting it off has dug the hole you've got to climb out of deeper, the longer you wait, the deeper it will get, and the harder the hit you take getting out will be.  And it's only going to get worse the longer you wait.

I'm sorry if this seems harsh, but you've been on this board as long as I have, everyone reading your threads has long since seen you need to get yourself out of this situation.  I know it's generally not a good idea to tell people what to do, they've got to solve them on their own in order to grow, but occasionally I do believe an exception is warranted when someone just flat needs a 2x4 upside the head to shake them out of their FOG.  I know I did, I'm glad I got it, especially now looking back because my life is so f*ck*ng awesome now, and I might not have it if I didn't get that 2x4.
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« Reply #20 on: March 21, 2017, 02:44:37 PM »

  It's PURPOSEFUL. 
 

If we knew it was purposeful... .then it certainly would be more serious.  Purposeful in a "plotting/malevolent" type of way.

Classic BPD usually is not actually that way... .even though it may seem that way.

I believe there is a big difference in someone that "has a purpose" to deal with uncomfortable feelings... .yet they don't have any boundaries on how they do that.

versus

Someone that sets out to be mean to you... .


FF
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« Reply #21 on: March 21, 2017, 05:30:27 PM »

If we knew it was purposeful... .then it certainly would be more serious.  Purposeful in a "plotting/malevolent" type of way.

Classic BPD usually is not actually that way... .even though it may seem that way.

I believe there is a big difference in someone that "has a purpose" to deal with uncomfortable feelings... .yet they don't have any boundaries on how they do that.

versus

Someone that sets out to be mean to you... .


FF

I'm going to just state I disagree. BPD/NPD whatever - the label doesn't excuse it. And I do believe what they do is purposeful, malevolent, and premeditated. Otherwise they wouldn't adapt tactics when set new boundaries. Haven't we all had them simply turn around and storm off when we wouldn't bend on a healthy boundary, only to have them come back later wuth some new, escalated insanity?

What do you think they're doing when they're off sulking? Simply crying? They're plotting revenge.

I know most people on this board won't believe this. That's fine. I don't need "to be right" and I don't get offended by disagreement. ☺
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« Reply #22 on: March 21, 2017, 07:32:28 PM »

And I do believe what they do is purposeful, malevolent, and premeditated. Otherwise they wouldn't adapt tactics when set new boundaries.

To my mind, in order to be premeditated and malevolent, the person doing these things has to be aware of what they are doing and how it is an abusive, destructive pattern, and have the goal of causing abuse, control, or destruction.

Some pwBPD (especially those with more NPD traits) fit this definition well, and I have no doubt your ex is one of them, waddams.

Others have pretty much no awareness/understanding that anybody but them has feelings, or has any feelings which are different than theirs, and they aren't aware of what they are accomplishing with this behavior.

That said, the unawareness doesn't stop it from being very effective, or very well targeted. It works clearly and consistently toward a purpose, even when the pwBPD isn't aware.
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« Reply #23 on: March 21, 2017, 09:15:05 PM »


No disagreement at all that it doesn't excuse it... .regardless of how it gets there.  We are same page.

IMO... the "prescription" could be different if you "knew" that "fiery uncontrolled emotions" were driving it... .versus a plotting and malevolent intent to do harm.

Well... let me add nuance.  If you are interested in the relationship continuing and you believe it is due to emotions... .I see a potential pathway to help regulate emotions.

While I'll admit I haven't thought about this deeply, I don't know of any way to "help" a relationship with a truly malevolent person...  

We do need to be honest and say there is a lot of guesswork, trial and error to figuring out "why" they do things... .

FF

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« Reply #24 on: March 22, 2017, 07:27:33 AM »

What do you think they're doing when they're off sulking? Simply crying? They're plotting revenge.

mine has been "plotting" while I have been struggling whether to be the "bad guy" and just end this marriage or let her serve me papers, that are already filed, I just have not been served yet.

I have been in a passive mode trying to figure any avenue that would save the marriage. I find out yesterday, unless she is bluffing me, she has been recording phone conversations with me and recording in the house.

texts yesterday:

HER: Got that conversation recorded. Good job!

ME: I knew that's what you were doing ( I said this because I realized at that moment with what she was doing that she was trying to record that call, we had a conversation right before these texts)

HER: Well if you knew that darling, you're stupider than I thought for using that lame excuse that I asked you a question that you wanted to divorce me.!

HER: Actually it's not the first one either. I have a fine collection of things you said here in the house and over the phone. I'm telling you this because I don't need anymore, I have all I need if somebody comes against me for the divorce. Plenty of arrogant spiteful vicious godless reasons why you want to wimp out on this marriage. And that one the other day about me not liking anyone? Well when I asked for an example you contradicted yourself so badly I had to really try to keep from laughing out loud! Been doing this for a while now. Thank you for the good material

HER: Forget picking up the crap from the grocery store. I'll be getting only what (her son) and I need from now on don't worry I won't ask you another favor.  (I have never complained about doing favors)

 
I have been her errand boy for the last 5 years. That's my fault.

Cipher My point here is that they do not care about you in the end. From the sounds of it your wife does not seem to cut you ANY slack. I at least got some slack cut to me although the rope was short.

We have to take care of ourself at some point. As I told someone I sat idly while she planned her preservation tactics. My fault because I was trying to be compassionate and caring.


SAVE YOURSELF!  If you can find it within you to plan as much as possible. A lot of great advice here!  Yes and even though harsh, sometimes it takes the 2x4 upside the head  Smiling (click to insert in post)

The one thing I have to remember is that I do have blame in this dysfunction, I let it go on too long, I made excuses for her, defended her when she was wrong etc and so on. Now I am standing up for myself and what I need and I am establishing boundaries. In some cases this can save a relationship, unfortunately that is not the case with me.
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« Reply #25 on: March 22, 2017, 08:21:49 AM »


Hey...     to Byfaith.

 When I read that... .I don't see a plot.  I see a dysfunctional reaction to (whatever is on her mind)... .she is looking for some sort of emotional outburst of "how could you... ." from Byfaith. (IMO)

If she was really plotting to be malevolent... she would NOT reveal the recordings... .until they were needed.  Plus... .what it sounds like she recorded... .is of little use to her.  At least I can't figure out how it would "help" her. 

Honestly... it "shows" me the dysfunction... .as she claims that these things will somehow help her... .

I would hope that everyone her would NOT hear me suggest that these things are NOT hurtful or don't have a HUGE impact on your life.  They do... this sucks.

The only "point" that I am putting out there is that these type of actions... .claims... ."plots"... that come from a place of "emotional dysfunction"... .need to be handled very differently from a person that is seriously "Just" an evil person that is looking to hurt you.

The dynamic I see with BPD.  They have emotional wounds... .they externalize those wounds and act out against those they perceive to be harming them.  So... .in a way... they believe they are protecting themselves.

Now... .in either case... .if the non decides they are done with the relationship... .the "tactics" are largely the same. 

My "point" about a different "prescription" only applies if there is an intent or need to stay in the relationship.

Byfaith and others... .very sorry for what you guys are going throuigh... .     

FF
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« Reply #26 on: March 22, 2017, 08:50:34 AM »

Thanks FF,

I can agree with your thoughts on this. To us nons it could seem like plotting but yesterday I was also thinking how their behavior is instinctive for protection or survival. I know an animal doesn't plan when it will use its survival instincts (I hate to use the animal comparison) but they just do what comes natural to them.

The main point I wanted to make is that I realize what part I took in all of this, both sides of the coin are dirty to some degree.

It's not just them. Sometimes that's a hard pill to swallow. The more clear minded I got about everything and behaved to my core values the worse things in the relationship became.

It is not going to be easy Cipher


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« Reply #27 on: March 22, 2017, 05:56:18 PM »

My uBPDh has intentions and forethought. He has said things like 'I'll show them... .' and will intentionally do things that I have asked him not to because they hurt me. Of course, that is different than the in the moment kinds of things that he does.

For example, for several months, he was talking with his therapist about divorce and was planning what he would do. I had suspicions that this was going because he was more disengaged, but eventually, he told me because he isn't good at keeping things secret when it comes to his relationship with me.

He has also intentionally told people in authority misinformation about me - planning when he would do it. He says he has 'thrown you under the bus.'
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« Reply #28 on: March 23, 2017, 07:16:54 AM »

I'm not really sure how much forethought my udBPDw puts forth or not. I suspect it is a little of both. I think some of what she does or says comes form not being completely aware of how to control how she is feeling and another part is that she feels angry and has the forethought to exact some kind of lash out to A. justify the feeling to herself and B. to seek to end the feeling the only way she knows how.

I thought there was going to be a huge incident the other day when she was going to electronically sing my name to a purchase agreement even though I said absolutely not. I held firm and it eventually calmed down. It also came out that she decided we could afford a down payment by borrowing against my retirement funds. Ugh. Makes me sick just thinking about it.

Separate quick issue I would like help on and maybe a new thread is required for this but I'll ask it here anyway. My wife makes a long commute each day(about an hour). We knew it was oing to be about that long and possibly temporary as we assume a job closer to where we live would open up. It hasn't yet. So anyway the issue is that she gets so stressed and worked up on her drive that she needs 20 to 30 minutes to calm down when she get to work and when she gets home. She is a driver that doesn't like it when people do not drive her speed. which is 5 to 10 over the posted limit usually. So when they go even slower she starts to get worked up and has to pass them. Its a 2 lane highway so when passing you have to worry about the on coming cars. That's all I hear about is how slow people drive.  I will say 1 thing about this is that it is true that the route she drive does yield several slower drivers than you would expect. While I can see that it would be frustrating she takes it to an extreme I think. No amount of driving should cause you to tears and affect your heartrate on a daily basis. This is her reason she wants to move again so she can eliminate this drive... .I know it would help but I also know there will be another situation to take it's place... .It always has.
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« Reply #29 on: March 23, 2017, 07:40:11 AM »

I also know there will be another situation to take it's place... .It always has.

You see the pattern... .I believe you will be able to see real and genuine change... .should it ever occur. 

pwBPD are not good at choosing living arrangements... .because they think about the "immediate thing"... .They will give lip service to challenges they can see, because they "don't feel bad right then". 

Once they actually experience it, I believe that they likely realize they screwed up again (triggering some shame) and also look for the "quick fix"... .we'll just move and borrow retirement funds.

There should be a way for you to log into the real estate system and change your password.  Since it should be tied to your email address.

 Does your wife have access to your email?  If so... you are screwed... .
 
You did right to stand up for yourself... .I would also try to think through what you will do if she ever does sign for you... .when you say no.    Has she ever done that before?

FF
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