my story

[Before you can make things better, you have to stop making them worse...]

Hope I am posting this in the right place. I wondered if anyone might give me feedback.

I'm 43. In October 2012 I met a girl via online dating, I married her by November 2013. My parents expressed concern at the speed but I was turning 40. More than that she had said her family in the old country (she grew up in Russia) would be ashamed of her living with a man.

I have in my life had several relationships with highly aggressive women, and one had told me she had borderline personality disorder. This girl seemed very different so personable and kind. After 3 months of dating I ended it, I had got tired of her talking to me about her super rich boyfriends, it was non stop. Also she sometimes said things like "it is more important for me that a man can take care of me than that I love him". She kept secrets, her name was not her real name, her age was 5 years older than she said and so on.

She was hugely charming. My best friend asked to see me a month before the wedding and said "my wife and I think she is marrying you for your money"... .I knew I had different values to her. She always had to have the best of everything - anything below that and the charm disappeared and she got angry.

I married her. From the honeymoon she was different, a bag of nerves, and controlling. I felt very lonely in the honeymoon I was always working around on my own. I was over spending I think to compete with her ex lovers... .I have my own business, employ a few people, but I had never heard of people with the wealth she talked about. She seemed vaguely dissatisfied with the honeymoon, and then did not like my flat when we got back. I was always looking at properties on my own. Eventually I found a great rental but we lost it because she wrote such a demanding letter to the landlord.

I was lonely in the marriage , she did not seem to want to eat with me or watch tv with me. However perhaps I was being needy. I eventually bought a house, I told her if you decide you don't like it we will have big problems, so please tell me if you don't like it. Of course two weeks in she said she didn't like it and I had a sort of breakdown... .I had done it all for her ... .it was not my area of the city, it was far from my friends and family, I did it for her.

After a year and two months I moved out... .I gave her six months... .I told her I was angry she just replied "I am angry too" ... .and she used religion on me... .telling me I was cursed and so on. She then tried saying it was because I had aspergers. She refused counselling saying she was "more clever than any counsellor" at the end she did ask for it... .So I filed for divorce and tried to go no contact... .My mother had said "she does not have feelings like you - she does not have the same emotional spectrum" and she did sometimes seem to have no feelings.

My research made me think it was narcissistic personality disorder... .I rented her an expensive flat, took care of her and made the settlement generous. And then I went no contact. And she has stalked me for a year... .I ended up renting a different flat as she was always following me home and waiting outside my place.

So last November she was there outside my flat and I drank wine with her and I believed her. I believed she was not a stalker but a heartbroken woman and I had abandoned her. This feeling nagged and nagged at me, I kept talking to my counsellor who had only ever advised me to stay away from her. So I saw a new counsellor... .

He said it was a terrible decision but he was 51% in favour of my seeing and seeing how I feel. He felt she was just someone who saw the world in a different way to most people. He also believed my family had pressured me out of the marriage. I did see her, and I opened communications and now I do not hear from her. Today her sister wrote to me... .from Russia... .

I am in a state now of thinking I left my wife for no good reason. That I am a weak man.
I cannot talk to friends and family as they simply cannot hear anymore about it, it has been a life ruining experience... .  I could try and reconcile with her but I dont think my family would speak to me again... I don't know how I feel about her, only love and a sense of not understanding how her mind works.

She does lack empathy. She is in love with herself. I am someone who works very hard, has lots of friends, a lovely family, but I lack confidence, I think someone we bonded and connected. I believed this to be true even more when reading The Human Magnet syndrome.

I will pause here and appreciate any feedback, just I feel a bit in distress... .as there has never been a situation in my life which I have not quite been able to resolve in this way. Many thanks and apologies for any spellings and general rambling.

[beowulf]

Hope I am posting this in the right place. I wondered if anyone might give me feedback.

I'm 43. In October 2012 I met a girl via online dating, I married her by November 2013. My parents expressed concern at the speed but I was turning 40. More than that she had said her family in the old country (she grew up in Russia) would be ashamed of her living with a man.

I have in my life had several relationships with highly aggressive women, and one had told me she had borderline personality disorder. This girl seemed very different so personable and kind. After 3 months of dating I ended it, I had got tired of her talking to me about her super rich boyfriends, it was non stop. Also she sometimes said things like "it is more important for me that a man can take care of me than that I love him". She kept secrets, her name was not her real name, her age was 5 years older than she said and so on.

She was hugely charming. My best friend asked to see me a month before the wedding and said "my wife and I think she is marrying you for your money"... .I knew I had different values to her. She always had to have the best of everything - anything below that and the charm disappeared and she got angry.

I married her. From the honeymoon she was different, a bag of nerves, and controlling. I felt very lonely in the honeymoon I was always working around on my own. I was over spending I think to compete with her ex lovers... .I have my own business, employ a few people, but I had never heard of people with the wealth she talked about. She seemed vaguely dissatisfied with the honeymoon, and then did not like my flat when we got back. I was always looking at properties on my own. Eventually I found a great rental but we lost it because she wrote such a demanding letter to the landlord.

I was lonely in the marriage , she did not seem to want to eat with me or watch tv with me. However perhaps I was being needy. I eventually bought a house, I told her if you decide you don't like it we will have big problems, so please tell me if you don't like it. Of course two weeks in she said she didn't like it and I had a sort of breakdown... .I had done it all for her ... .it was not my area of the city, it was far from my friends and family, I did it for her.

After a year and two months I moved out... .I gave her six months... .I told her I was angry she just replied "I am angry too" ... .and she used religion on me... .telling me I was cursed and so on. She then tried saying it was because I had aspergers. She refused counselling saying she was "more clever than any counsellor" at the end she did ask for it... .So I filed for divorce and tried to go no contact... .My mother had said "she does not have feelings like you - she does not have the same emotional spectrum" and she did sometimes seem to have no feelings.

My research made me think it was narcissistic personality disorder... .I rented her an expensive flat, took care of her and made the settlement generous. And then I went no contact. And she has stalked me for a year... .I ended up renting a different flat as she was always following me home and waiting outside my place.

So last November she was there outside my flat and I drank wine with her and I believed her. I believed she was not a stalker but a heartbroken woman and I had abandoned her. This feeling nagged and nagged at me, I kept talking to my counsellor who had only ever advised me to stay away from her. So I saw a new counsellor... .

He said it was a terrible decision but he was 51% in favour of my seeing and seeing how I feel. He felt she was just someone who saw the world in a different way to most people. He also believed my family had pressured me out of the marriage. I did see her, and I opened communications and now I do not hear from her. Today her sister wrote to me... .from Russia... .

I am in a state now of thinking I left my wife for no good reason. That I am a weak man.
I cannot talk to friends and family as they simply cannot hear anymore about it, it has been a life ruining experience... .  I could try and reconcile with her but I dont think my family would speak to me again... I don't know how I feel about her, only love and a sense of not understanding how her mind works.

She does lack empathy. She is in love with herself. I am someone who works very hard, has lots of friends, a lovely family, but I lack confidence, I think someone we bonded and connected. I believed this to be true even more when reading The Human Magnet syndrome.

I will pause here and appreciate any feedback, just I feel a bit in distress... .as there has never been a situation in my life which I have not quite been able to resolve in this way. Many thanks and apologies for any spellings and general rambling.

[Larmoyant]

Hi Beowulf, and welcome to BPD Family   

You sound very confused and I understand how distressing that is. It doesn’t seem as if you left your wife for no good reason. There are many things you wrote about that would make it very difficult for you to stay, but I understand the conflict when we love someone.

.I don't know how I feel about her, only love and a sense of not understanding how her mind works.

.

It would likely be a good idea for you to empower yourself by learning about the traits of BPD. Knowing a little about how her mind works will help you and you’ll become less confused. Keep reading and posting and we’ll walk you through it.   
. 

[beowulf]

Hi Larmoyant,

Thank you for the welcome and guidance.
I think I have been in a spin since engaging with her again. It causes me to doubt my actions which were carefully considered.
The new therapist has put forward this idea about not labelling her, learning how to communicate with her and how she was not in fact stalking, but doing the only thing she could do in the face of my going no contact. Telling me he was 51% in favour of my engaging with her again has left me confused.
That said, since talking to her again, she has not responded in any depth... she sends cheerful, one liner emails... Instead her sister has written to me from Russia... thoughout the relationship my ex used other people to talk to me. Everything was covert.  Her mistake was whispering in my mothers ear on christmas day that I was an alcoholic. She denies doing that but both my mum and brother say they were alarmed when she was being critical about me.
To outsiders the situation is "tragic" and "laughable" in friends words. To them it is obvious it is a bad situation for me. For myself this new insight from the new therapist makes me doubt my actions. I sometimes feel at least I would not carry guilt around with me.
Thanks for letting me just write this out, it helps me get clear on what has happened.
Since getting in the relationship I put on a huge amount of weight and have various warning signs regarding my health, cholesterol, blood pressure and gout... .Sometimes I think my body is telling me what my conscious mind finds hard to accept.

[Larmoyant]

Hi beowulf,

It’s difficult to make decisions when we don’t have enough information so it sounds like your therapist is helping you to understand where her behaviours are coming from.  Does he think you want to get back with her or is he aware that you’re confused at this stage? I’m interested in why he told you that he was 51% in favour of you engaging with her. Did he express reservations about this as well?

As for Christmas day it sounds as if your wife was devaluing you to your mother and brother. This is a common behaviour for pwBPD and very upsetting to be on the receiving end of. I’m sorry that it happened to you, but it’s good that you have your families support.

It seems that the relationship has taken its toll on you physically too and it’s very important to take care of yourself. These are all things to consider when we’re making a decision.

Are you planning on engaging with her again soon and have you thought about what you want to say?

[beowulf]

Thanks for asking me these questions Larmoyant

A big incident was my mother sitting me down (only once I explained I was really struggling since buying the new house, and she was really unhappy). My mum had used the 'psychopath' word, she said my wife had "tricked our whole family" i.e. she did seem to be different after the wedding. For example she told me I should give her dad a job in Russia (he does not speak much english), and if I didn't he could die. My mother then escalated things but saying if I ever had a child with her it would "kill her"... .  the new therapist said "your mother had no right to say that, saying that ripped the soul out of the relationship"... .

I can only say again my mother and then father only said these things when it seemed I was having some kind of breakdown. I said to the new therapist, OK I moved out, I warned her, she responded with nonsense talk about demons and devils, I filed for divorce, got her a flat and then went no contact... .I did what I really thought was best for everyone. Just why did it feel like my life felt a bit ruined, I was alone, I missed her and my life felt empty. The best session with him he had said I was best to continue no contact, he said "listen to your parents" and you have a "duty not to destroy yourself"... .but the second time when I said I was struggling he said the 51% thing. I do get on very well with her, we have a shared sense of humour and she is lovely company.

I am taken aback as she has stalked me for a year or 15 months, I opened up communication but now she seemes disinterested, it is insane to stalk someone, bombard them with cards and messages, then that person opens up communication and they become distant. This I think is a warning sign again. That makes me think I do not want to contact her again, I think she would have to string a few sentences together about what she has put me through. Will I ever get that from her probably not. I don't want to block her again, but I perhaps don't think I need to proactively engage with her.  I'd like my focus now to be on my health.
Thanks for drawing these thoughts out from me.

[beowulf]

I told my therapist it would be our last session for a while, at least a month. She sounded upset and said it was a pity I did not think the sessions were helping me. I just said I need time to decide assetively what my decision is around all of this without asking other people. I am so tired of being the only one who cannot see, and has to keep asking other people to see for me. It is like I cannot own my own feelings of anger about what happened.

I went to sleep content she was a highly damaged person, and I was right to move on as she had no ability to discuss things or take responsibility. She only had very basic skills such as denial and blaming others, which meant there was no intimacy in our conversation.

Then I woke today and felt a stab of pain about what I had put her through. It wasn't all her at all. I hope over the coming month to decide and move on without ever looking back as it has been two years now since I first left the house.

[Larmoyant]

Hi beowulf, it sounds like a good idea for you to take time out to figure out what you want. It’s good to get advice from caring others, but sometimes it gets confusing.

What helped me was to write out a list of all the good and all the bad parts of being with my ex.  Let’s just say that the latter was a lot longer than the former, but it helps to look at it spelled out on paper. I still look at it today if I find myself wavering and it keeps me grounded. If you haven’t already made your list I’d recommend it.

Like you I can see that my ex is a highly damaged person, and I’m also able to see my role in our conflicts, and it wasn’t all his fault. Sometimes I wonder if I could have changed anything if I’d reacted differently. The answer is no. He would still have a personality disorder and there is ultimately nothing I can do to control it. I could lessen the damage to myself perhaps, put up boundaries to protect myself, but that’s all. I don’t want to live my life trying to protect myself from my partner.

Time and space to think does help beowulf. I’m living proof and am in a much better position than a few months back.

Keep reading and posting here. We’ll help you through it.

[formflier]

I just said I need time to decide assetively what my decision is around all of this without asking other people. I am so tired of being the only one who cannot see

Hey... .just to confirm.  This counselor is one that your pwBPD suggested or wanted you to go to... .correct?

I think you are much wiser than you give yourself credit for.  Somehow there is a lot of self doubt.

I think taking time to decide is a wonderful thing... .   

I also think that it would be a good idea to sniff around for a T... .that is focused just on you.  No ties to the r/s.  You have some important things to think through... .FOR YOU.

I DO think there is value in moving beyond labels.   Focus less on words and more on actions.  I think you see just fine

When you "did" what she asked... .did she draw closer to you... .? 

FF

[beowulf]

Thank you Larmoyant,

I am glad you are doing better than a few months ago. I write out that list at least once a week ))
Deep down my fear is I am a neurotic who could not handle marriage. My friends and family tell me that is not the case. I can only describe it as being married to someone who was plotting against me. I could not have an open and honest conversation. My mother said it is just too painful for her to listen to now.  I do think, that example you give of writing a list, it is an example of getting in touch with your rational side... .you thinking self... .I think the sad emotions I have towards her... .I am projecting onto her how I feel... .she does not necessarily feel like I do at all.

Formflier... .thanks for giving me feedback also.
I dream of her often and last night another example. In the dream she told she was still faithful to me and desperate to get back together.
The counsellor is my own counsellor I have had for many years who always wants to take things back to my parents and early years... .I said to her I am exhausted from this, the last thing I want to do is alientate myself from my parents... .
I got tired and saw a new therapist who said instead "you have been spectacularly unlucky" and took out the blaming my parents. Instead he said move on, trust your parents, don't look back. When I saw him a second time and I got on very well with him. I said look, I saw her again and I believed her, she seemed so sincere... and that was when he said he was now erring towards my making contact with her.
I did and... .since I did we had friendly communication but now silence from her. I don't know if this is because she has moved on or she is finding this is drawing me back to her.
Thanks for saying I "see just fine"... .  I was in all the remedial classes at school, the teachers told my parents "he will never be able to write"... .well, I had a few inspired teachers and I went to university and set up a business... .maybe in another age they would say I had some kind of syndrome... .I can seem like I am pathologically trusting and naive... .  I forgot about all of this, but something about this relationship makes me feel I am back in the remedial class, unable to write and dependent on asking others... She pushed and pushed on that, saying I had aspergers, and she would only go to a counsellor who specialised in aspergers... But I am very sensitive and have a lot of empathy... .her waiting outside my apartment in the rain, when I had told her please not to do that, caused me huge pain. To be honest it caused me a degree of fear as well, never knowing when she would appear, at least now she can contact me if she wants.

[formflier]

.
  I don't know if this is because she has moved on or she is finding this is drawing me back to her. 

So... .it's always a bit of an inexact science... .trying to figure out why pwBPD do things.  However, you can generally trust patterns. 

"push/pull" is a "classic" BPD pattern and that seems to be what she did. 

At some point she "wants" to know you still care (for her purposes... not yours)... .so she reaches out.  That is the "pull"... .she is trying to "pull" you in.  You respond... she "gets what she wants" and now knows that she has control over you (in her mind)... .and then kinda thinks... ."Ohh my gosh... .I don't want to be close to him... .(especially now that her "need" has been fulfilled)... .so she pushes you away.  (by ignoring you)

I'd bet money that is what is going on... .

Few questions:  What is status of the marriage?

Do you still send her any money?

How long has it been since you guys have talked?

FF

[beowulf]

Formflier,

Well, I don't know what she has, there are just hints e.g. her father the day after the wedding getting angry and saying "she could have had a powerful man, a rich man... .pah... .she will not help you she is only decorative"... .  I had him and his family feasting on me in London for a week. Then a sudden turn about face. I still don't know what that was about.

I did wonder if now she feel she has "won" , only her pulling did last a year or so.

We are divorced, my lawyers wrote to her to stop stalking me after the divorce she ignored them. In the end I got angry and said I would call the police, she stopped then.

She has the divorce settlement now and I have stopped renting a flat for her, she is worried about spending the money she got from the divorce on rent. It was a six figure sum which she said "was no compensation for a broken life"... .I still rented her a flat for a few months after the divorce but that finished and that seemed to increase her stalking.

We lost spoke 3 weeks ago when I went to see her new flat. We had a drink and a meal... .we got on well, but she kept it light and jokey, we did not really talk in any depth. My mother is a very experienced therapist, please bear in mind she is overly protective of me. She said my ex was highly damaged in her early years, to her, you are just a character in her play. If you got back together she would soon move on and use you as a stepping stone (when she talked about her previous relationships she only mentioned the money and power about them... .)

I thought maybe with my opening communications she might take her chance to say something meaningful.

[formflier]

She was married to you for how long? 

Did she work or bring assets to the marriage?


FF

[acknowledgement]

No empathy. In love with herself. Push Pull. Devaluing.

Try to ask yourself if these are the traits and the experiences you wish in a relationship. With BPD, you will get that and so much more (some good times and feelings of love ON YOUR PART, and then so much more of negative, degrading, devaluing, all about them and their needs. THrow in some rage, silent treatment, stonewalling, painting you black, lies, trying to sabotage your happiness, trying to interfere in other relationships and a whole lot of irrationality and things are always their way or the highway... .

They are never satisfied, for they do not have depth. They are empty. They flounder to be someone, so they mirror you, someone else. They use you to fill a need, then discard you. Poof. It can be without warning, or you can be recycled as many times as they need you to fill them again, and you allow it... .thinking they will change. They never do.

But you do. You become crazed within yourself, trying to please them, walking on eggshells, wondering what you said or did to put them into a silent treatment or a rage... .you try to avoid that. Then it's something else. You are so tired and degraded by it all... .but you hold onto what may have been a laugh, good times, etc... .make an ongoing list of it all - you will hardly believe you went through it or put up with it when you go to read it back.

Try to embrace that you did not spend 30 plus years like I did in one of these relationships. Let yourself be free and open to a new and normal relationship. Making the list as someone else suggested in so powerful - write down all those horrible things she said and did, and then on the other side of the paper write down the few things you think you loved or liked. Seeing is believing, and when you see the CONS well overtaking the PROS... .its a light bulb moment. Keep the list for as long as you need it to reference to avoid contact and triggers.

[beowulf]

Formflier,

So we were married a year before I left the house. When we married she had nothing but debts, and I had quite a bit of savings, pension and my business. She worked but she spent all her money and often I had to give her money to tide her over until the end of the month. She never stopped spending. She was very anxious that she had the best of everything otherwise she felt like a loser. So I felt after a while she was feeding off me. I was actually OK with that, but then she said what I could provide her was not good enough.

When I bought the house in London, checked she liked it first, and then she said she didn't like it... that was when I had a bit of a breakdown. It was a deep wound to my sense of being a provider. All I wanted as I turned 40 was a family I could love and look after. I'm now 43, I feel anxious I only have feelings of 'love' for her, I tried dating but can only think of my ex. I have now left my city, and only go back there a couple of nights a week... .I just felt so sad and anxious. I live hundreds of miles away now not speaking to anyone but I'm in a beautiful place and feel my stress levels going down. Sadly part of me would like to take her up here to see and I'm hopeful she would love it here. (I won't do that though)

Acknowledgement
Thanks for the feedback. It is strange, years ago I was in a relationship with a girl who said she had borderline personality disorder. I felt we had a better connection than I did with my ex. My ex seemed so emotionally absent and cold. Her flash points where she escalates emotion and stalks has really been around fear of my turning off financial support - maybe that is not fair... .
So I suppose I do not know what my ex wife 'has' and this is where the new therapist blew my mind with his idea that I think if I can live with her accepting "she sees the world in a different place from you"... .that radical idea makes me feel I have wasted 2 years of her and my line in separating, divorcing and going no contact. I thought when I opened contact I would get a flood of communication... .but no... .

Thanks for listening

[acknowledgement]

were you referring to when you opened communication you thought youd get a flood of responses from her? with BPD THEY control, or need to control... .so if you are available again, that can be all the "feed" they need for the time. If you pull away and become less available, they may reach out directly, or through others, to ascertain they still have an emotional hold or otherwise on you. It is a push pull game where they make all the rules and you do all the suffering UNTIL you decide to make boundaries and stick firmly to them. For many of us, sadly, with a BPD No CONTACT is the only way to go if you want to be free of the chains of their irrational emotional abuse. It never ends until you free yourself... .point here - after 4 years NC she is stalking my family and casual friends to get information and see if there is still any connection... .they are all going NC with her too... .

[beowulf]

but how do I know if she has BPD?
This is the advice I took in, and I went no contact. Then I doubted myself when she seemed so sincere, when the therapist gave me that feedback... .my mind has been spinning. Could I really have wasted so much time and ruined our lives by my actions. She wrote to me end of November promising me it was not too late. She made a point of describing what our children would have looked like.
So yes, I thought when I opened up to her something would happen, but I've heard nothing. So maybe it is a game of the kind you describe above.
I could try talking to her again. By any account my life went off the rails from when I met her.
Perhaps I should be thankful it has gone quiet and move on now while I have my chance.

[formflier]

Perhaps I should be thankful it has gone quiet and move on now while I have my chance.

Please don't worry about diagnosis and labels.  She has BPDish behavior... .that is all you need to know. 

How many years total were you married?  I wasn't able to follow the math in your story... . 

I'll think about the rest of your questions and try to answer later.

FF

[beowulf]

Formflier, thanks so much...
I was married to her for 2 years, but a year of that we were separated. During the first 6 months of separation I agonised over what to do, and my priority was not to waste her time. When I moved out I thought she might phone me up crying and so on, but nothing, she seemed fine as long as I was paying. She didn't seem lonely. When I confronted her and said "I have moved out from the house I bought us, can you see what has happened? I am angry"... .she just looked blank and said "I am angry too"... .all the drama on her part came later.

Everyone told me she would go and I would never hear from her again once I paid her the divorce settlement. That simply as not the case there was an escalation of her "love" for me and her following me. It was these actions that confused me and had me going to a second therapist. I do think my family were extra fearful as she was from another country originally, and how overtly materialistic she was. My father said to my mother "the marriage can't work they have completely different values"... .this is true...   Just we did get on... .but maybe part of that was the charm she shows everyone, not something intimate between us.

[formflier]

F  and how overtly materialistic she was

And you paid her how much?... .for about 1 year together of marriage... .and one year of separation in marriage?

During that marriage... .it sounds like you paid her expenses as well... correct?

 

Not trying to be mean... .when dealing with FOG... .clarity is the best antidote to FOG.

FF

[acknowledgement]

push pull. they love to recycle you to make sure they still have emotional control over you. Sounds like she loves money, too... ALWAYS ALL ABOUT THEM. Anything they do that is nice is generally to gain something for themselves, whether at your expense or not, they do not care. Keep a journal of these events, experiences, push pull, silences... .keep reading them over and ask yourself do I want this in my life. WHY do I want this in my life? After you let people like this go, whether they are labeled BPD, have BPD ish tendencies... .this behavior is just unacceptable, mean, cruel... .when you eliminate them from your life with no contact, you invite and open yourself up to be truly free, and the possibilities of real love and friendships is available, as you are not consumed with the drama and irrationality of this type of person. Hang in there and stay strong and keep and reading that journal... .

[beowulf]

FF,

In addition to renting her a flat in prime London (that is what she wanted all along really).
Paying her expenses.
The divorce settlement was £115,000.00
And I didn't even feel it at the time, I just paid her and felt joy that now she "could not" contact me again. In my minds eye she ran off laughing with one of her investment bankers that she kept going on about. I did not bank on her standing outside my flat in the rain crying. The thing is what she really wanted was a baby, then she would have been set up for life. My whole family keep saying at least you did not have a baby with her then your life would have been ruined. They don't know about this latest contact and my doubts.

Acknowledgment

Thanks, you know it is great to tell this story to new people and get the feedback I'm not a fool for destroying my marriage after a year. There was one symptom I want to talk about I have not told others. When married to her, I felt I lost all power in my life. When we met in company I remember just tuning out, thinking nothing I say has any impact, so I am just going to pretend I am not here, almost going into daydream mode. I never do that but I felt like a mannequin.

Here is what she did. I have a creative business, I employ a few people, took me 10 years to build up... .by the time she finished with me, and she put it down so much... .I felt like I had nothing of any value, and she could almost help herself if she wanted. I felt so ashamed compared to her stories of her ex's ... .and early on she planted ideas in my mind "if you ever buy a girl a ring make sure its a Bvlgari"  - I didn't know what Bvlgari is... .the only things I spent money on is books and travel. She didn't want to travel with me after getting married. I bought the Bvlgari ring months later, and in the store, she complained and pulled faces in front of the store ladies, "and why not Cartier" she hissed... .That actually happened, despite her presenting herself as some kind of a wronged saint now.

[beowulf]

It should have been 50k, I let it run on, and it grew more and more... .she pushed for more and more by crying... .

Today I wrote to a friend that I did feel my life was a bit ruined. I know it is the depression talking. A have a good female friend I've known since school... .so she knows me very well. I said I felt like I had chased off the person who cared for me the most in this world... .she always said "I care for you more than she did, your other friends (naming names) care for you more than she did... .and as for your parents, don't even mention that as they adore you. That is just the thing somehow I let this relationship damage my relationship with my family.

Today I wrote to my friend, how is that she could stalk me for a year and then not communicate when I opened up communications... .she replied: "The words power, control and hook, line and sinker come to mind but you could always ask your therapist"
She thinks I saw a second therapist and paid him to tell me what I wanted to hear.

Yesterday was a good day, gym, no alcohol in my body... .today suffering. That was the other thing I always liked a drink but from the wedding I found I drank more and more around her, that is obviously on me, and I'm fighting that battle too.

[acknowledgement]

Add those cold remarks to your ongoing journal... .and again ask yourself... .is THIS a person I would want in my life... .do I want to be spoken to and treated that way? No contact is the best medicine against these irrational, self centered BPDs... .

[beowulf]

It is sad to someone someone in pain, regretting their actions.
You open a gateway to reconcilation and they go cold again.

One thing I am learning a relationship with someone like this can take up years of your life very quickly.

[acknowledgement]

The reality is that they DO NOT regret; they NEED something. for awhile. for a minute. You happen to be the one available, as they can manipulate you, your feelings... .so the cycle begins. They say they regret. You are hopeful. THey know they control you again. They toss you in silence or with cruel words or their view of rational and reality. You're out. You're back in when they need you to fulfill some emptiness inside of them. Now your choice again whether to be recycled and used to fill their void. This craziness will continue for as long as you allow it, as you are the rational one... .they are only capable of this type of behavior.

[beowulf]

It is 4am here, and it is like the fever has broken.
I don't have to feel super guilty for protecting myself, why is it just opening contact again and I feel like I'm having a nervous breakdown.
Thanks Acknowledgment, no wonder it is so painful for family and friends to see me being drained like this. The strange feeling of "I made it all up" can be very powerful for me.

[acknowledgement]

Thats where the power of the journal is... .by reading back their exact words, quotes of what they said, when, the experiences, situations... .you are left with the real TRUTH not their distorted REALITY. It brings so  much clarity and strength to be and stay NO CONTACT for you only invite all of the ghosts of the journal back into your life... .

[beowulf]

Thanks Acknowledgement

I just think I'm going through a bit of a hard time. Awake until 4am (it is nearly 5am now)... .tired all day, then it happens again mind racing at night. Acute sadness about the situation.

I do think this might be what I am going through, acute trauma and loneliness:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=whjDeFZDEUk

Thanks for replying to me and validating what I have gone through.

[formflier]

I just think I'm going through a bit of a hard time. Awake until 4am (it is nearly 5am now)... .tired all day, then it happens again mind racing at night. Acute sadness about the situation.
 

This is something best addressed with a therapist.  The big view is that you need to honor your feelings and then figure out what to do about your feelings when they show up... .hopefully you can do things that help you get back to sleep. 

FF

[beowulf]

Many thanks FF, for all the feedback... .
I'm booked in to see my therapist on Tuesday, I need closure around the advice he gave me around the 51% and so on. It is good to realise you are depressed rather than mistaken or abusive yourself.

[formflier]

I would suggest writing down your questions about the advice... .

Write down you understanding of the advice... .

Perhaps even ask what you taking the advice would look like, to someone that doesn't know the full story.


Last, ask what it is that the T sees in you that leads the T to give out the advice.

FF

[beowulf]

I didn't hear from her for a month.
I saw the therapist again he expressed regret at putting doubt in my mind. We sort of agreed that all I needed to know was evident by my breaking no contact i.e. she had not taken the opportunity to reach out and talk.

These situations are such time killers. I don't know what has happened to the time since she escalated the stalking. The pain of going no contact was very hard but I did seem to be functioning pretty well.

Now in contact again I have found alcohol and sleep to be problems.

Then she made contact a week ago. I wasn't sure but I met her for a walk. We had a drink, a couple of drinks which turned to dinner. I was looking at her thinking 'what is wrong here'... .we had a good time, I feel very good in her company. Then we taked about the events between us and she hotly denied any of it was to do with her. I asked her "why did I leave then?" she said it was all external influence and again mentioned the 'demon' word... .

Smiling, charming, but can come out with a statement about my being under external influences. I've done hundreds of hours of therapy over all of this, I don't think she has somehow. I hope I am not using this forum incorrectly, just writing the account out is helpful to me.

[formflier]

Good use of forum!   

Thanks for laying it out there and being vulnerable. 

What is your plan?  Your next step?

FF

[beowulf]

Thanks FF, you do ask good questions. I have been chewing that over for a few days.

I've moved to a new city now. My mother visited me this weekend. This apartment I am in is very different from my London place. I said to mum, 'maybe this is what she wanted, something more like this... ' mum said to me 'she is a damaged baby, nothing is going to be good enough for her, if you invited her up here she would spoil it for you, you cannot share anything that you value with her, she will attack it'... .  I felt a lot of wisdom from my mother and only good intentions. The visit was very healing as I have had some paranoia towards my family.

The situation has gone on so long I find I cannot confide to my close friends. Instead I talked to a friend in Australia on skype. I confided in him I had seen her, I had dinner with her. He reminded me I had doubts about her agenda even when I was visiting him in 2013 and the wedding plans were developing. He reminded me nothing was good enough for her and he had told his wife that he thought I was making the wrong decision.

So all advice going one way - my logical mind can see she has hurt me deeply. She has extended it by turning up on my doorstep and workplace, ignoring warnings from lawyers until I felt I wanted to change city. This has cost me another year.

I can see that - whilst also experiencing the sense that she is a 'soul mate' and the person I got on with best and as she told me last week I 'betrayed her'... My options are to express my regrets to her, but move on... .to keep meeting her, and who knows that might take away years of my life. Or to have a therapist sit between us and listen. I believe the answer lies in not just logic. Emotion is just as valid but I have to have some emotion and empathy for myself. I have to tap into some self-regard and imagine what a best friend would tell me looking at the situation.

I just need some more time but having distance between she and I has helped and I have calmed down. Only know her emails are coming in. Pictures of the past, or things she likes... .bits of health advice to me... Anyway thanks for asking the question about what I will do. 

[beowulf]

I met her last Wednesday. I am only just recovering.
I've wasted another few months trying to figure her out and wondering if we can reconcile. I've done this knowing if I were it would alienate me from my family and friends.
I was prepared to risk all. She made it clear none of what I experienced had happened. She advanced her theory that all my issues in life were because my mother did not love me. She had to take me to a therapist who would help me with that. Plus take me to her Russian church to talk to her priests. She will only accept things if she has total control over me.
I felt a bit sick, the normal rules of communication and intimacy just do not work wtih her. I stayed up to the early hours drinking... .just like the bad old days. I think I have my proof and whilst she is not contacting me, I think I will sadly go no contact and try to heal.
I really would have loved to make it work.

[HelenaHandbasket]

Hello beowulf!  I love your username.

I think it may help you to know that many partners of people with BPD, BPD traits, or NPD learn to doubt their own feelings and actions.  Have you ever read about gaslighting?  It is a common thing for pwBPD or NPD to do to their partners.  Even if your ex never engaged in gaslighting, simply having a relationship with someone whose mind works so totally differently from the average person's (whose behavior and reactions are counterintuitive) is likely to keep you constantly off-balance. My brother's wife has BPD, and although everyone tells him he is right to do and say and feel the things he does in response to her actions, he often still doubts himself.

Based on what you've written, I think you had more than enough good reasons to get out of this relationship. Someone who tells you you're cursed does not sound stable to me. I would encourage you to keep working with your counselor to understand the reasons why you have these doubts, and the reasons why you may be attracted to these types of relationships. I hope your counselor can help you get better at trusting yourself.  I wish you strength and healing!

[beowulf]

Thanks Helena,

It was good of you to reply. My therapist told me about gaslighting when I said my ex changed events all the time. I got out the classic film Gaslight and found it very moving. Seeing her again gave me that feeling of someone trying take me over.

I have had to go back into old emails to verify what happened. There is the evidence she was either (i) saying I had to go to a therapist who specialised with aspergers or (ii) attacking me with her talk of evil spirits.  Then before that are the emails where I am telling her if she tells me she likes a house and she then says she hates it I will find it hard. I gave her all full warning.

Then there is the email where she says she has nightmares about her father dying unless I give him a job. And yet still, I feel I betrayed my soulmate. I understand no contact is a way to heal from abuse - it is just that doubt that is sickening. I think I am getting out of it and it really stemmed from me seeing that second therapist.  Oh well thanks for feedback !

[HelenaHandbasket]

Hi again!

I know it's hard, and it's much easier for me to say "stay away from this relationship, trust yourself" than it is for you to do it.  I've seen that with my brother--both major relationships he's had in his life have been with BPD partners (including his current wife), and when I read posts like yours I hear his voice.

When he is doubting himself, I remind him to remember his guiding stars--these are the things he absolutely knows to be true. They are: You deserve to be treated with kindness and respect (because everyone does). You deserve to be and feel safe in a relationship (because everyone does). You deserve to be told the truth (because everyone does). You deserve a soft place to fall, a relationship where you are not constantly on edge or off balance.  Remembering these guiding stars won't necessarily make your path any easier to follow, but it might at least make the path clearer.

Ask yourself: Does this person enrich my life? Am I a better, healthier person when I'm with her?

[beowulf]

Thank you Helena,

Your brother has been through this? Hope he is OK.

For me someone being overtly disappointed in me was really painful. If I was talking to a best friend I would tell him, look at what you are contributing, what is she bringing to the table? What right does she have to unman you and why do you give her this power?

It was all an attempt to make me feel like I had nothing to offer, nothing of value and then she would take it all of me.

Meeting her again confirmed she only has manipulation and denial in her conversation toolkit. It could only work if I gave up my sense of reality and handed it over to her. 

It is hard when talking to family and they say it is "too painful" to listen to. I have to do this for myself but thanks for listening and feedback.

[HelenaHandbasket]

Yes, sorry--I should have explained.  My brother is the reason why I was drawn to this board; his long-term ex girlfriend and his current wife both have BPD, so I have been watching him deal with these relationships for fifteen years.  I have never had a BPD partner myself, but I was once involved in an abusive relationship with a person with antisocial personality disorder (sociopathy) so I do have personal experience with gaslighting and other emotional abuse tactics.

My brother is somewhat okay.  He's not the same person he was before he started getting involved with his borderline partners.  He suffers from a lot of anxiety and self-esteem issues now.  He is learning to deal with it  better now, with the help of a therapist. He's currently trying to decide whether to stay in his marriage. There are a lot of issues there, but he's hesitant to leave because he and his wife have a son together.

I think no-contact would be a smart move for your situation.  It sounds like you start to get strong and confident in what is real and what isn't, and then you see your ex and feel off-balance again. That's just my two cents, of course.  Only you know what is right for you.  But when I hear of a person telling another person they're cursed, my first thought is "YIKES." You are absolutely right when you say that her toxic behavior only works if you hand over your own sense of what is real.  If you hand over your power.  So my advice would be, don't do that.  There are so many other women out there, and you sound like such a good guy--I want you to find someone who will value and respect and LIKE you, someone who will make you feel secure and cared for.  In the meantime, keep working with your therapist to get yourself strong and healthy.

[beowulf]

Thanks Helena, your brother is lucky to have you. I'll see how I go over the coming weeks and hope to move on from this situation.

[beowulf]

She contacted me for my birthday last week. I had lunch with her and drank wine. It is always the same feeling - initially one of everything is right in the world when I am with her. I feel whole and my esteem goes up. Then she asked that I again to to a therapist to understand "why you ruined my life and ruined my life"... .I start to get dizzy as she piles it on. The huge amount of money I gave her for one year of marriage she says "is no compensation for a broken life"... .I always start to feel drowsy.

Last night she wrote again "hello darling... ." and invited me to meet her. I paused and today I wrote back saying I find it very painful to meet - does she think it is a good idea for us to see each other. And I asked her, what did she think she would have done differently now and what has she learnt from the whole experience.

I warned her that her demands were too much to bear and I was disappointed that she made clear she did not rate me as a provider. It hurt me when she would not eat with me or watch tv with me as newlyweds. It hurt me very deeply.
And then I moved out and warned her I would divorce unless she changed her patterns of communication with me. That is when she escalated to demanding I go to a aspergers specialist to understand "why I was so cruel to her" - when I fact I know my fault is I am a soft touch. Then she pushed religion and used that against me even though I set down a clear boundary against her doing that.

So sadly I divorced and she stalked me for over a year. I got a flat in another city and at lunch she suggesting she could up and visit. I would LOVE her to... .I think she is fantastic company but I wonder if she can register what I have been through over this. I find just blocking her hard - no contact but I am curious to see how she will respond to my question about what she has learnt.
Thanks again for letting me vent. I really deeply, did not want to get divorced.

[beowulf]

I asked her what have you learnt and what would you do differently as I find it painful to meet.
She replied a few times with things like:

"obviously you never loved me"
"I have told you so many times , you don't listen or you can't understand?"
"I was crying so much for two years"
"better we do not meet then"

I left a gap in the door open against everyones advice because if she had strung a few sentences together I would give the relationship a chance. I hope it was OK to ask her this question, I would have been fine to answer the same question to her.