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Before you can make things better, you have to stop making them worse... Have you considered that being critical, judgmental, or invalidating toward the other parent, no matter what she or he just did will only make matters worse? Someone has to be do something. This means finding the motivation to stop making things worse, learning how to interrupt your own negative responses, body language, facial expressions, voice tone, and learning how to inhibit your urges to do things that you later realize are contributing to the tensions.
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formflier
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« Reply #30 on: March 30, 2017, 01:01:46 PM »


I would suggest writing down your questions about the advice... .

Write down you understanding of the advice... .

Perhaps even ask what you taking the advice would look like, to someone that doesn't know the full story.


Last, ask what it is that the T sees in you that leads the T to give out the advice.

FF
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beowulf

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« Reply #31 on: April 20, 2017, 05:19:59 PM »

I didn't hear from her for a month.
I saw the therapist again he expressed regret at putting doubt in my mind. We sort of agreed that all I needed to know was evident by my breaking no contact i.e. she had not taken the opportunity to reach out and talk.

These situations are such time killers. I don't know what has happened to the time since she escalated the stalking. The pain of going no contact was very hard but I did seem to be functioning pretty well.

Now in contact again I have found alcohol and sleep to be problems.

Then she made contact a week ago. I wasn't sure but I met her for a walk. We had a drink, a couple of drinks which turned to dinner. I was looking at her thinking 'what is wrong here'... .we had a good time, I feel very good in her company. Then we taked about the events between us and she hotly denied any of it was to do with her. I asked her "why did I leave then?" she said it was all external influence and again mentioned the 'demon' word... .

Smiling, charming, but can come out with a statement about my being under external influences. I've done hundreds of hours of therapy over all of this, I don't think she has somehow. I hope I am not using this forum incorrectly, just writing the account out is helpful to me.
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formflier
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« Reply #32 on: April 20, 2017, 05:25:46 PM »


Good use of forum!   Doing the right thing (click to insert in post)

Thanks for laying it out there and being vulnerable. 

What is your plan?  Your next step?

FF
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beowulf

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« Reply #33 on: April 25, 2017, 01:28:09 AM »

Thanks FF, you do ask good questions. I have been chewing that over for a few days.

I've moved to a new city now. My mother visited me this weekend. This apartment I am in is very different from my London place. I said to mum, 'maybe this is what she wanted, something more like this... ' mum said to me 'she is a damaged baby, nothing is going to be good enough for her, if you invited her up here she would spoil it for you, you cannot share anything that you value with her, she will attack it'... .  I felt a lot of wisdom from my mother and only good intentions. The visit was very healing as I have had some paranoia towards my family.

The situation has gone on so long I find I cannot confide to my close friends. Instead I talked to a friend in Australia on skype. I confided in him I had seen her, I had dinner with her. He reminded me I had doubts about her agenda even when I was visiting him in 2013 and the wedding plans were developing. He reminded me nothing was good enough for her and he had told his wife that he thought I was making the wrong decision.

So all advice going one way - my logical mind can see she has hurt me deeply. She has extended it by turning up on my doorstep and workplace, ignoring warnings from lawyers until I felt I wanted to change city. This has cost me another year.

I can see that - whilst also experiencing the sense that she is a 'soul mate' and the person I got on with best and as she told me last week I 'betrayed her'... My options are to express my regrets to her, but move on... .to keep meeting her, and who knows that might take away years of my life. Or to have a therapist sit between us and listen. I believe the answer lies in not just logic. Emotion is just as valid but I have to have some emotion and empathy for myself. I have to tap into some self-regard and imagine what a best friend would tell me looking at the situation.

I just need some more time but having distance between she and I has helped and I have calmed down. Only know her emails are coming in. Pictures of the past, or things she likes... .bits of health advice to me... Anyway thanks for asking the question about what I will do. 
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beowulf

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« Reply #34 on: May 20, 2017, 03:14:16 AM »

I met her last Wednesday. I am only just recovering.
I've wasted another few months trying to figure her out and wondering if we can reconcile. I've done this knowing if I were it would alienate me from my family and friends.
I was prepared to risk all. She made it clear none of what I experienced had happened. She advanced her theory that all my issues in life were because my mother did not love me. She had to take me to a therapist who would help me with that. Plus take me to her Russian church to talk to her priests. She will only accept things if she has total control over me.
I felt a bit sick, the normal rules of communication and intimacy just do not work wtih her. I stayed up to the early hours drinking... .just like the bad old days. I think I have my proof and whilst she is not contacting me, I think I will sadly go no contact and try to heal.
I really would have loved to make it work.
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HelenaHandbasket
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« Reply #35 on: May 21, 2017, 03:26:46 PM »

Hello beowulf!  I love your username.

I think it may help you to know that many partners of people with BPD, BPD traits, or NPD learn to doubt their own feelings and actions.  Have you ever read about gaslighting?  It is a common thing for pwBPD or NPD to do to their partners.  Even if your ex never engaged in gaslighting, simply having a relationship with someone whose mind works so totally differently from the average person's (whose behavior and reactions are counterintuitive) is likely to keep you constantly off-balance. My brother's wife has BPD, and although everyone tells him he is right to do and say and feel the things he does in response to her actions, he often still doubts himself.

Based on what you've written, I think you had more than enough good reasons to get out of this relationship. Someone who tells you you're cursed does not sound stable to me. I would encourage you to keep working with your counselor to understand the reasons why you have these doubts, and the reasons why you may be attracted to these types of relationships. I hope your counselor can help you get better at trusting yourself.  I wish you strength and healing!
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beowulf

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« Reply #36 on: May 23, 2017, 07:24:51 AM »

Thanks Helena,

It was good of you to reply. My therapist told me about gaslighting when I said my ex changed events all the time. I got out the classic film Gaslight and found it very moving. Seeing her again gave me that feeling of someone trying take me over.

I have had to go back into old emails to verify what happened. There is the evidence she was either (i) saying I had to go to a therapist who specialised with aspergers or (ii) attacking me with her talk of evil spirits.  Then before that are the emails where I am telling her if she tells me she likes a house and she then says she hates it I will find it hard. I gave her all full warning.

Then there is the email where she says she has nightmares about her father dying unless I give him a job. And yet still, I feel I betrayed my soulmate. I understand no contact is a way to heal from abuse - it is just that doubt that is sickening. I think I am getting out of it and it really stemmed from me seeing that second therapist.  Oh well thanks for feedback !
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HelenaHandbasket
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« Reply #37 on: May 23, 2017, 12:38:01 PM »

Hi again!

I know it's hard, and it's much easier for me to say "stay away from this relationship, trust yourself" than it is for you to do it.  I've seen that with my brother--both major relationships he's had in his life have been with BPD partners (including his current wife), and when I read posts like yours I hear his voice.

When he is doubting himself, I remind him to remember his guiding stars--these are the things he absolutely knows to be true. They are: You deserve to be treated with kindness and respect (because everyone does). You deserve to be and feel safe in a relationship (because everyone does). You deserve to be told the truth (because everyone does). You deserve a soft place to fall, a relationship where you are not constantly on edge or off balance.  Remembering these guiding stars won't necessarily make your path any easier to follow, but it might at least make the path clearer.

Ask yourself: Does this person enrich my life? Am I a better, healthier person when I'm with her?



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beowulf

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« Reply #38 on: May 24, 2017, 11:40:27 AM »

Thank you Helena,

Your brother has been through this? Hope he is OK.

For me someone being overtly disappointed in me was really painful. If I was talking to a best friend I would tell him, look at what you are contributing, what is she bringing to the table? What right does she have to unman you and why do you give her this power?

It was all an attempt to make me feel like I had nothing to offer, nothing of value and then she would take it all of me.

Meeting her again confirmed she only has manipulation and denial in her conversation toolkit. It could only work if I gave up my sense of reality and handed it over to her. 

It is hard when talking to family and they say it is "too painful" to listen to. I have to do this for myself but thanks for listening and feedback.
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HelenaHandbasket
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« Reply #39 on: May 24, 2017, 04:33:16 PM »

Yes, sorry--I should have explained.  My brother is the reason why I was drawn to this board; his long-term ex girlfriend and his current wife both have BPD, so I have been watching him deal with these relationships for fifteen years.  I have never had a BPD partner myself, but I was once involved in an abusive relationship with a person with antisocial personality disorder (sociopathy) so I do have personal experience with gaslighting and other emotional abuse tactics.

My brother is somewhat okay.  He's not the same person he was before he started getting involved with his borderline partners.  He suffers from a lot of anxiety and self-esteem issues now.  He is learning to deal with it  better now, with the help of a therapist. He's currently trying to decide whether to stay in his marriage. There are a lot of issues there, but he's hesitant to leave because he and his wife have a son together.

I think no-contact would be a smart move for your situation.  It sounds like you start to get strong and confident in what is real and what isn't, and then you see your ex and feel off-balance again. That's just my two cents, of course.  Only you know what is right for you.  But when I hear of a person telling another person they're cursed, my first thought is "YIKES." You are absolutely right when you say that her toxic behavior only works if you hand over your own sense of what is real.  If you hand over your power.  So my advice would be, don't do that.  There are so many other women out there, and you sound like such a good guy--I want you to find someone who will value and respect and LIKE you, someone who will make you feel secure and cared for.  In the meantime, keep working with your therapist to get yourself strong and healthy.
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beowulf

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« Reply #40 on: May 25, 2017, 04:39:45 AM »

Thanks Helena, your brother is lucky to have you. I'll see how I go over the coming weeks and hope to move on from this situation.
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beowulf

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« Reply #41 on: June 12, 2017, 10:16:00 AM »

She contacted me for my birthday last week. I had lunch with her and drank wine. It is always the same feeling - initially one of everything is right in the world when I am with her. I feel whole and my esteem goes up. Then she asked that I again to to a therapist to understand "why you ruined my life and ruined my life"... .I start to get dizzy as she piles it on. The huge amount of money I gave her for one year of marriage she says "is no compensation for a broken life"... .I always start to feel drowsy.

Last night she wrote again "hello darling... ." and invited me to meet her. I paused and today I wrote back saying I find it very painful to meet - does she think it is a good idea for us to see each other. And I asked her, what did she think she would have done differently now and what has she learnt from the whole experience.

I warned her that her demands were too much to bear and I was disappointed that she made clear she did not rate me as a provider. It hurt me when she would not eat with me or watch tv with me as newlyweds. It hurt me very deeply.
And then I moved out and warned her I would divorce unless she changed her patterns of communication with me. That is when she escalated to demanding I go to a aspergers specialist to understand "why I was so cruel to her" - when I fact I know my fault is I am a soft touch. Then she pushed religion and used that against me even though I set down a clear boundary against her doing that.

So sadly I divorced and she stalked me for over a year. I got a flat in another city and at lunch she suggesting she could up and visit. I would LOVE her to... .I think she is fantastic company but I wonder if she can register what I have been through over this. I find just blocking her hard - no contact but I am curious to see how she will respond to my question about what she has learnt.
Thanks again for letting me vent. I really deeply, did not want to get divorced.
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beowulf

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« Reply #42 on: June 14, 2017, 11:11:12 AM »

I asked her what have you learnt and what would you do differently as I find it painful to meet.
She replied a few times with things like:

"obviously you never loved me"
"I have told you so many times , you don't listen or you can't understand?"
"I was crying so much for two years"
"better we do not meet then"

I left a gap in the door open against everyones advice because if she had strung a few sentences together I would give the relationship a chance. I hope it was OK to ask her this question, I would have been fine to answer the same question to her.

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