Narcissistic BPD MIL... why different tactics for different in laws?

[TDeer]

Why does it seems like the rules in this pwBPD MIL's brain are different for me vs my brother in law?


How does that fact that I'm now an in law factor into this sickness?

Does it?

I'm thinking there's something to do with this that made pwBPD MIL not stay in her wise mind.

She seems, as far as I know which is limited, not to care so much about my husband's brother in law.

She seems to have directed all of her issues onto me and my husband's sister. My husband thought for our wedding, that things would be different because pw narcissistic BPD MIL kept saying that mothers and daughters should plan weddings together. My husband thought she would leave me alone.

But it's weddings overall she's a drama queen with. She tries to control everything and become they center of attention.

It seems like my brother in law didn't have to set boundaries with pwBPD MIL either, since husband's sister and her husband needed money from husband's parents for the wedding. So eventually husband's sister groveled to keep pwBPD MIL from pulling her money from the wedding.

So... .we know that now husband's sister and pWBPD MIL are sort of on frosty, fake, but "ok" for the sense of dealing with mental illness issues, types of terms.

Brother in law to husband is pretty much a non issue, because they just work not to set off pwBPD MIL.

So... .maybe I just answered my own question? He's not a threat because he won't stand up to her like I did?

In that case, it's healthier for me to stand up still, right? Although I know that in that timeframe my husband should have stood up to her, but he didn't. He was probably going to stay completely in the toxic behaviors, but I guess I forcefully removed him mostly from that situation with my own boundaries.


What a messed up family system. Ugh! It's so draining.

[Notwendy]

The first thing I noticed was the genders. My mother relates differently to males and females. She likes males better. I don't know how your MIL was when she was younger but my mother was very attractive and got lots of attention from men. She knows how to flirt and flatter them. So like the Snow White story- with younger women- she isn't the prettiest one in the room. They are competition. She tends to paint them  black.

This isn't normal and it isn't age appropriate- but neither is BPD behavior.

[Notwendy]

There is so much written about the teen years- where they start to push away from parents, be more interested in peers, and develop romantic attachments.

I don't know if there is a lot said about the parent side of this. I think it is because an emotionally healthy parent can manage their own feelings- they recognize that their own feelings are their responsibility, and are not caused by the teen's shift in focus to peers- as it is a normal and desirable part of their growing up.

BPD mothers are self centered and see their children as extensions of them. So if they have uncomfortable feelings about their children, they see it as being blamed on someone else. To a younger child, their parents are the center of their love. It probably isn't easy for them to see someone else come along and get their child's attention.

We are a youth oriented society. A middle age woman begins to realize that younger women are considered more attractive than they are. They can see them as competition. I don't think it is emotionally healthy to see a daughter or DIL that way, but it could be for a BPD mother.

For my mother, this transition was difficult. She's still a beautiful woman, but she got a lot of attention for that. It was twisted, but I think she saw me as competition. She started to tell me I was fat  ( I was a normal size) and unlovable and that she and my father wanted to send me away to boarding school. ( they didn't). This theme is paralleled in stories like Snow White and Cinderella- and it seemed this way in my FOO.

Bringing this back to your MIL. Yes, you are the love of your H's life, and may one day be the mother of her grandchildren. This is wonderful, but to a BPD mom- you could be competition. You are the reason her son isn't all about her anymore. This isn't true- it is biology- human- spiritual- development. He was destined to leave his parents and find a partner. But all she may see is that "you took him". So her issue about his birthday may be about winning this "competition".  It may be his birthday, but if he is seen as an extension of her- it is the day she gave birth to him. She could see this as being her day too. ( kind of strange but would make sense to someone who sees things as being about her)

As to your brother in law, this, in a crazy way, relieves mother of the feeling of competition. Daughter is off the market. My mother may paint me black, but my H is painted white. She tries to get him to triangulate with her against me. He does stand up to her though. So I don't think it is that your BIL grovels to her. I just know that my mother prefers men to young women, tends to paint them white while painting the women black.

These are ideas, but something I observed in how my mother relates to others.

[TDeer]

Ok so my husband told me last night he's got the following plan, but he's still working on the execution:

A.) He says that since it's HIS birthday, what HE wants is for everyone to get along like we all used to for ONE DAY. Meaning, he takes me along and his mother just has to deal with it.

B.) Even if his mother wanted to refuse to pay for me although his parents would be paying for everyone going, then he says his dad will back him up and pay for me instead.

C.) This will just be super awkward. I'm pretty sure BPD MIL will just be super fake, but ... .? What if she isn't?

D.) I had just gotten used to the idea of not going and avoiding being pulled into the toxic FOO drama, but this would be my husband's birthday and I should give him what he wants for his birthday.

E.) What kinds of problems should I look out for? It's going to be a long type of table in the place we're going and I won't have to sit near BPD MIL, my husband already insisted on that part.

F.) What kinds of tactics should I use? Just hang out, eat, play with my phone if BPD MIL makes this day about herself?


G.) I never apologized to her, and she insists I owe her an apology for setting boundaries (she would say it was a lot of other stuff, but therapist says it's just setting boundaries that she flipped out over.)
Although I know she hasn't apologized to me, this day is about my husband's birthday, so if it's his wish, then it's his wish,... .right? I won't be somehow telling her by going that it doesn't matter if she apologized or not? I doubt I'm going to get an apology anyway for all of the torment and drama, but I don't want to put a seal of approval on that either.

H.) How do I maintain boundaries, but still go, if my husband wants me to and we've set up our lines? Meaning, we know at what point we'd get up and leave if she were acting out of hand? She likely won't do it in public, but who knows?

[Notwendy]

This has all the potential for a sitcom. "My big fat BPD birthday"

A.) He says that since it's HIS birthday, what HE wants is for everyone to get along like we all used to for ONE DAY. Meaning, he takes me along and his mother just has to deal with it.

Ok, this is what he wants so you go for him.

B.) Even if his mother wanted to refuse to pay for me although his parents would be paying for everyone going, then he says his dad will back him up and pay for me instead.

Just smh. How immature. Let them deal with that. Or the two of you pay for yourselves. It's just dinner.

C.) This will just be super awkward. I'm pretty sure BPD MIL will just be super fake, but ... .? What if she isn't?

Keep in mind that you have no control over what she does. All you can do is keep calm and not be reactive and get down to her level. You be the adult. If she acts out, then she is the one doing it.

D.) I had just gotten used to the idea of not going and avoiding being pulled into the toxic FOO drama, but this would be my husband's birthday and I should give him what he wants for his birthday.

If you want to give him what he wants, then just do it. If it is a short period of time with my mother, I just let things go as it isn't worth getting into it with her during a short family event. I usually schedule something nice for myself afterwards when I get home as a form of dealing with the stress of being with her. Maybe something like a pedicure, a walk in the woods, a hot bath with some nice bath salts. Whatever makes you feel better. Self care is key here.

E.) What kinds of problems should I look out for? It's going to be a long type of table in the place we're going and I won't have to sit near BPD MIL, my husband already insisted on that part.

Don't try to predict the future. She could do anything. Just be focused on you.

F.) What kinds of tactics should I use? Just hang out, eat, play with my phone if BPD MIL makes this day about herself?

She very well might make this day about her. After all- this was the day she was in labor. ( don't laugh, my mother reminds us about that ).  Remember- these FOO issues existed before you joined the family. They are pretty set. The rest of the family has dealt with this, enabled it ,or what ever. Just amuse yourself.

This is not your monkeys and not your circus!

A great way to be non reactive is an idea called "medium chill". Its where you aren't emotional in either direction. Just stay neutral.


G.) I never apologized to her, and she insists I owe her an apology for setting boundaries (she would say it was a lot of other stuff, but therapist says it's just setting boundaries that she flipped out over.)
Although I know she hasn't apologized to me, this day is about my husband's birthday, so if it's his wish, then it's his wish,... .right? I won't be somehow telling her by going that it doesn't matter if she apologized or not? I doubt I'm going to get an apology anyway for all of the torment and drama, but I don't want to put a seal of approval on that either.

Don't set up battle grounds with her over apologies. Just go, stay non reactive through the meal.

H.) How do I maintain boundaries, but still go, if my husband wants me to and we've set up our lines? Meaning, we know at what point we'd get up and leave if she were acting out of hand? She likely won't do it in public, but who knows?

You and your H need to discuss this. What is the limit of what you both will tolerate? Since it is his birthday and you are there for him, let him decide this- just for that day. Then, the two of you can decide something different later if you want.

Boundaries for this day are not something you talk to her about. They are what will you do if- if she yells at you, insults you, and so on. Decide them before hand and then just act on them if you have to.

It is just one day--one event- keep that in mind. She could go completely crazy but the important part is for you to stay calm and not react to it, and keep the boundary you set with your H about when to leave if you have to.

[Pilpel]

The first thing I noticed was the genders. My mother relates differently to males and females.

Just wanted to say I've noticed the same thing with my N/BPD SIL.  She has very intrusive expectations.  And her expectations seems to mostly be focused on women.  I think in general females relate different to their moms and dads.  I know when I was growing up I adored my dad, but had little patience for my mom.  And I see the same tendency with my daughter.  When my SIL talks about how her parents mistreated her in her childhood, she either refers to her parents or to her mom.  There are never any specific accusations against her dad.

She has butt heads with my husband a few times.  But for the most part, everyone who knows her has observed that her expectations and rages are usually focused on females: my mom, me, her mom, her sister, women in her church, etc. 

[Notwendy]

Occasionally there is a sad post from a mother whose son marries a BPD woman. The mother says something that upsets her ( often it is out of concern for her son) and the consequence is that the son cuts contact with her. These poor mothers are bewildered, they have no idea that this could happen.

Same thing with me. BPD mom was angry at me, and them took over my father's relationship with me.

It makes me think that another woman is likely to be considered competition and painted black. I don't think it was tolerable for my father to love another woman- in any capacity- even if that woman was his mother, sister or daughter. Rationally, that love is not the same as a romantic relationship and it doesn't compete with it. The man can love his wife, mother, sister and daughter, but it isn't acceptable to a woman with BPD. This could also apply to the son as well. He was hers first, and she doesn't like that he isn't.

This is irrational, childish, and if you take it seriously, it will validate it. She isn't behaving like a mother of a grown son. She's acting like his middle school girlfriend and he just asked you to the school dance, not her.

You've won this one- he loves you. It doesn't seem like he is ready to leave you and run home to mommy anytime soon, but that doesn't mean she doesn't wish this. She may never change. You and your H can live your own lives as a couple- maybe see MIL on some holidays, family events, but most of the time, your relationship remains between the two of you.

[TDeer]

Occasionally there is a sad post from a mother whose son marries a BPD woman. The mother says something that upsets her ( often it is out of concern for her son) and the consequence is that the son cuts contact with her. These poor mothers are bewildered, they have no idea that this could happen. 


You've won this one- he loves you. It doesn't seem like he is ready to leave you and run home to mommy anytime soon, but that doesn't mean she doesn't wish this. She may never change. You and your H can live your own lives as a couple- maybe see MIL on some holidays, family events, but most of the time, your relationship remains between the two of you.

NotWendy

You're right! It's completely bewildering!   

He's not running home to mommy anytime soon, you're right. He only occasionally wants to see him mom anyway.

My husband just wants things to be normal enough, as much as possible at least.

I just don't want to stir up the bees nest again. I'm fine with sticking up for myself if necessary, but I'm not sure it's going to produce good fruit for me to go.

Does it matter or not, if I go, in the long run?

I guess I get to at least see his dad, but I kind of just feel like it's not worth the fights that could happen.

My husband seems to think it's worth it... .that way he can just this as a basis for "we should always be able to get along".

I helped him get this far, but now that I have the option to go, I'm concerned that my mere presence is going to set her off. I even had a nightmare where I asked for help from his dad, who explained what to do, but then when I spoke to her things got ugly. I lost my cool and then started hitting her in this dream where she baited me.


I talk to my therapist later today... .Last week he seemed to think that I would have no problem keeping my cool if I see her, but I wasn't raised to be a victim or a doormat. So when my husband keeps telling me that he'd defend me if something goes wrong, my adrenaline kicks in. It makes me think I need to fight, which only makes things worse and won't change her behavior for the better. She'll just play the victim again.

I get that being non reactive is necessary, but I'm in conflict with my upbringing and personal values about sticking up for myself when needed.

[Notwendy]

If there could be a silver lining to a relationship with someone with BPD it would be self examination and personal growth. PwBPD do push our limits, and learning new relationship skills can help us relate to others better.

One interesting fact about who we choose to be in an intimate relationship with is that somehow their FOO issues match ours in a way. It may not be the same way or even obvious to us, but looking at this can help us examine our own way of relating to people and what we learned was the "right" way to do things in our FOO. You didn't choose your MIL- but you did marry a child of a BPD mother. This doesn't mean we aren't great spouses or that we are like our mothers ( I hope not- I don't think I am) but it often means we have learned ways to deal with our FOOs that were functional in the context of our FOO's but not the best way to deal with other people. How might you match this?

I bring this up because it appeared to me that my H's family was way more normal than mine, and this is true. However, my H's upbringing taught him ways to relate that were "right". Yet, there are many ways to deal with issues, not one right way. Often what feels "right" to us is what worked in our families and was "right" in that context. It wasn't easy to see how our FOO issues "matched", but they actually did in some ways. As it turns out, his mother was actually co-dependent on his demanding and over critical father. She kept his temper under control. So it appeared that all was calm and loving, but the conflicts were hidden but not dealt with.  In my FOO- conflict was obvious. The match? Neither of us grew up in families that could handle conflict- and so neither of us had good skills or role models to learn from. Conflict is inevitable in any relationship and can be handled with relationship skills.

How does this apply to you? I agree that you should not compromise on your personal values. These are a part of who we are, and we should not feel we have to compromise our truth. But the part I question is the need to stick up for yourself with BPD mom. I also believe this is important. You should not be a doormat to her. However, there are different ways to do this. The way you were brought up is the most familiar and comfortable way for you. However, it may not work so well with someone with BPD.

Your H is also using a pattern that is familiar to him and one that is familiar in my family. This is pretending we all get along. I recall standing up to my mother and my father saying "stop- I just want us to be a happy family again". As if we ever were. Happy family to him meant appease Mom at all costs, and had nothing to do with my happiness. That wasn't relevant. That didn't sound like a happy family to me. It is understandable that your H wants a peaceful birthday. Most of us can hold it together for a day- but maybe MIL can not.

Is the conflict of values between you and MIL? or is it you and your H? you don't want to go and he wants you to. This is your choice. If you feel you are violating your core values by going- then don't go. If you feel you can honor his birthday wish by putting up with MIL and not reacting for one day, then you can do this too. I have also made these choices during family events- to put up with her in order to have the family event, or to not, but what makes it my value is that it is my choice to do it or not.

Back to how my H was raised - he has a very strong need to defend himself - more so than I think is necessary. He reacts to event he slightest hint of criticism or what he imagines it criticism when there is none. This is from his FOO- I have seen him and his sibs almost have a contest with this. But it isn't functional in our relationship all the time.

Read the section on JADE here. The D stands for Defend. Sometimes a boundary can be to verbally defend yourself. Other times it can mean to disengage from the conversation, say something that stops the conversation like " Thank you for your input, I will think about this" or just to walk away. If MIL just goes off on you, your staying in adult mode might just be the best defense- by letting her behave like a spoiled toddler in front of everyone.

You and your H can have a great marriage. While my relationship with my H has had some ups and downs, as all relationships do- our situation is minimal compared to my parents. I am not my mother. Your H isn't his. Yet we may have some things to learn and so may our spouses- we are all a work in progress.

[TDeer]

NotWendy-


What are ways to stick up for myself and not be a doormat while functionally working within a family that has a BPD individual?

You mentioned not justifying, arguing, defending, or explaining. I am familiar with the acronym JADE... .

I think you're right that the worry my husband has is that if I stick up for myself, it'll be in a way that sets his mother off instead of just acts as a boundary.

I'm trying to think of other ways. My husband isn't great at articulating ways to do this, which is likely why he wants to do it himself or have his sister help. My therapist says I should just act professional like I'm at work, but I work with teenagers. Often my style of communication is blunt so kids understand what I'm saying, other times it's gentler depending on the kids... .but I try to be very clear so that kids know where they stand instead of having to find out by getting in trouble.

I also recall (this is where things went wonky) saying to my BPD MIL that she "spit on my attempts to help her", because she was so rude to me that I was just trying to explain so that she could get the hint and quit being so rude. It was awful. She told me that I could call her a witch since she was used to it.

She just used that (ages ago) to try to get my husband to get mad at me instead of take responsibility. I'm starting to see that this is a learning opportunity. I could have just stopped talking to her instead and told my then fiancé (now husband) what was going on.

I didn't do anything wrong at all, but I can see that with a BPD individual it wasn't effective.

What could I do instead?

I know there's tools that say don't be invalidating, or don't JADE, but what can I do?

I want to be able to take care of myself. I wind up feeling more vulnerable if I have to rely on others, but I can see that maybe I can watch what they do and talk about it after this time to start learning what to do.

[Notwendy]

I think it helps to keep in mind the duration. A long time probably requires different tolerance. If this is just a meal- then consider it's just that. Even if she was rude- she isn't really a danger to you. You may not need to defend yourself.

It takes two to engage in drama. One strategy has been called "medium chill" basically not reactive , not emotional. This is boring to a person who likes to push your buttons. So you don't give them any reaction.

This is my basic state with my mother. Pleasant , not emotional. Pushing my buttons just doesn't work anymore . I may feel aggravated but if I don't react- Her tactics don't work.

I can carry on an entire conversation and say basically nothing- or at least nothing personal. I can talk about the weather, a movie, the news- whatever. If I feel the conversation is going to an uncomfortable place - I changed the subject or reply in short statements- that's interesting, l will think about that.

MIL may get crazy but you don't have to join her. You can just think to yourself "blah blah blah" when she talks. Take a break to use the restroom if she gets to you. It's just lunch... .

[TDeer]

Does that mean that I shouldn't really talk about anything interesting if she's around - even with others there?

For example, if my husband or his sister or his dad brings up a topic that is interesting, do I just not talk about it then? Or do we just avoid topics directly to her that are more interesting?

So I just try to be boring? This sounds like third grade when you have to learn not to react to the kid who pokes you in class. Is this the same concept?

So... .if I just don't defend myself at all... .that's actually the best offense? Because then she gets bored?


I guess this makes sense in retrospect with how they have acted with BPD MIL in the past. I could sense something weird was sometimes happening, but I didn't know what.

For example, she would brag about the school district she chose for her kids. She's also bragged even that the state she lives in is the best in the union. She's also bragged by mentioning how cheap the place was where her daughter used to live while we were visiting. How awkward! Anyway, she used to brag about that and I didn't have the heart then (since I had no clue what the heck was going on) to tell her that I had a lot more space for less price at that time. But whatever! That's something I'm sure they ignore or they just chide their mother for, since it's not a direct attack or a real problem. Just something they can ignore.

I am trying to figure this out, but I think it's going to take more time.

I keep thinking she might try to verbally attack me somehow at this meal, but it's also not that likely if there's everyone there.

So I just make sure that I'm never alone with her so that there's no possible opportunity for her to say that I said something I didn't say?

[Notwendy]

Maybe it would be better to say don't talk about something personal or emotional. There are plenty of things that could be interesting but not provide information for her to trigger you with.

Basically, don't talk about anything you wouldn't care if it was broadcasted on the evening news.

For instance, I could tell my mother that my child's soccer team won. Who cares who knows that? It is probably public anyway. But I wouldn't confide in her about who my child has a crush on or something really personal to me. That is juicy drama fuel. My mother stores this kind of thing up to use as ammunition later on.

You can talk about a lot of things, but pretend you are a news announcer. The news is interesting- but it is fact, not your emotions. With practice, one could talk all day and not reveal anything personal.

Yes, it is similar to ignoring the third grade bully who calls you a poopy face, or pokes you.

I wouldn't be alone with her if you can help it, but it won't prevent her making up stories about you. You can not do anything to control what she says or does. You can only control your behavior.

My mother has made up so many stories about me and others that it is hard to tell what is true or not. I don't believe much of what she says. If it is something I need to know, I often cross check facts with other family members. She can call me all upset about something, and if I ask a sibling, the sibling will say she is fine. She is and says what she wants to.

Do you ever watch Mr. Bean? There is a scene where he is in church and the congregation is listening to a sermon. All he hears is "blah blah blah blah" . So, MIL starts droning on about something. Imagine " blah blah blah" then smile blankly at her. If she gets really rude or out of hand, excuse yourself to the rest room.

[TDeer]

So they truly make stuff up? I've wondered if somehow she believes what she's saying that isn't true or if it's somewhere in between or it's the illness... .

I guess the origin doesn't matter. She's not getting help, she doesn't want help, and she hurts others. So I can't trust her anyway even if I wanted to.

Her latest and greatest is a lie that she DID in fact apologize to me.

A psychologist I know, but isn't the one that I'm seeing on a weekly basis, suggested that to "bury the hatchet" from the pre-wedding drama, that I just PUBLICLY "apologize". That way, it's seen in front of everyone that I did it and it helps her just fizzle out of her 'reason' to be mad at me and helps the world keep turning.

I haven't apologized to her on purpose since all I did was set boundaries, but at the same time, I can see the wisdom in this tactic. I'm still going to hold to boundaries in the future and will continue to hold boundaries now. I'm just extending an olive branch for my husband (to his BPD mother) so that everyone in his family can see that I'm being civil and peacemaking.

I think that's the kind of political game that might be useful. I just can't seem to figure out if this tactic would bite me later... .

I could say something like "I'm sorry for any part I had in the problems" or something else vague. It would be a way to get her off my back, but I'd like to know your viewpoint. I know, at this point, that hell would have to freeze over for her to take any responsibility for her actions and I know that I don't have to wait around for her to do so. I can keep living and just keep her at a distance. I can also limit my contact with her. My husband doesn't tell her very personal things either. I used to think it was sad, but I totally 100% understand why since I've seen her BPD dark side.


So... .what do you think?

[Notwendy]

If you have not done anything wrong, and feel you have nothing to apologize for, then don't do it.

If you do it because she wants it but you don't believe you did anything wrong, then it becomes appeasement. Appeasement may bring a short reprieve but it isn't a solution and it is enabling.

An apology helps the person who apologizes. The other person has the choice to accept it or not.

In my relationship with BPD mom, the slightest thing becomes the unforgivable crime of the century to her, until she decides she wants to not be angry- but she can bring it up at any time if she wants.

I think apologies are difficult, if not impossible for someone with BPD. I wouldn't expect one.

IMHO- bringing up the past and apologizing is digging up drama. The way a pw BPD deals with their slights is to pretend they didn't happen. I think for a family lunch, and only for lunch, you can do this too.

[TDeer]

Ok. I can pretend for an hour. It's not really pretending though since it's just inappropriate to talk about conflicts during a birthday

[TDeer]

What are the consequences of appeasement? It's pretty much just letting down the boundary that you worked so hard to create?

BPD MIL is mad because I set boundaries, again and again, because she kept making them necessary. You bust one boundary, you have to put up another one. And another.

I read a post today somewhere else here that discussed how BPDs love to keep you accountable for everything and anything, but they don't take responsibility because, to them, it's over. Whatever they did is over. Even if they just did it.


So I guess I'm just trying to move forward, but I realize once again that I can only clean up my side of the street.

[Notwendy]

What is the consequence of appeasement?

Think of it this way. You have a four year old. It is almost dinner time. The child is cranky and hungry. He comes in the kitchen and says " I want a cookie!". You have two choices:

Say no to the cookie, because it is almost dinner time, and he will have a tantrum at the boundary. But in time, he will learn that this is a boundary- no cookies before dinner. However, for this to happen, your boundary has to have meaning. Basically your no means no. Sometimes he can have a cookie- not before meals. He learns that no means no, and yes means yes.

One day - he's going to ask for the car keys. You are going to say " have you done your homework?" He will say no. You will say " honey, you can't go out until you finish your homework". He will say "But mom- everyone is going out tonight. Other parents are letting their kids go. What's wrong with you? " but the boundary is no going out until homework is done.

One day, he will be an adult, and he will have internalized these boundaries - and other rules for getting along in life with other people and being responsible, like holding a job and possibly being a parent as well.

Now, let's go with appeasement. The child wants a cookie before dinner. You say no. He has a giant temper tantrum, so you say... .OK honey, I'm sorry I set this boundary, I see you are upset. Instead of you learning how to calm yourself down, I am going to fix your bad feelings and give you a cookie. I will teach you that the way to get what you want is to have a tantrum, and I will give in to you.

What kind of person will he grow into? A person who knows that no doesn't mean no, because if you rant and bully enough, you can get other people to give in to you. He will learn that instead of dealing with his own bad feelings, he can rant at others to fix them for him.

You're going to raise someone who behaves like your MIL. I don't think we can create BPD, but we could raise people to be inconsiderate and get their way by ranting.

Appeasement may work in the short run to get a moment of peace, but in the long run, it isn't good because it teaches them that your boundaries do not mean anything. It won't work because it won't fix the situation. It is a pattern with pwBPD.

To my mother, a boundary means nothing. She doesn't respect boundaries. When she visits, we have to lock up personal things like bank statements, because, she will roam around the house, snooping through our drawers and cabinets, because she doesn't respect privacy.

If I didn't have boundaries, she would have taken my children aside as adolescents and told them terrible things about me.

She hates that I have boundaries with her. There is a cost to them- she interfered with my relationship with my father over my boundaries. I have to be able to tolerate that she isn't happy with me when I have boundaries, but if I appease her, they teach her that her behavior works to get her way.

Appeasement in the long run has not been kind or loving to my mother. It may soothe her feelings in the short run, but it has taught her that her behavior works to get her way. Because this is a long standing pattern in my FOO, we have allowed my mother to act like a 4 year old.

The kind and loving thing to do when a toddler demands a cookie is to say no and let him have a tantrum. This is a step to him being a considerate and responsible adult. Appeasement is actually selfish. It buys you a moment of peace while enabling the other person to act like a spoiled four year old. It may be what your MIL expects because of the patterns in your H's family, but it isn't respectful to her or to you. Also, if she learns that your boundaries don't mean anything now, then this is something she will continue- not just with you but if you have children- one day with them. They will need to learn to have boundaries with her as well- and you will be the one to teach them.

[TDeer]

Thank you for the much needed reminder about boundaries and WHY they're necessary.

I appreciate your time and the fact that you humored me on such a question.

You're absolutely right.

It's just weird that I somehow feel a lot less angry towards pwBPD MIL in the past couple of days because I think I found some healing through reading about narcissistic abuse and finally let myself go that it wasn't my fault.

I'm not really sure. Maybe I don't have to be angry forever in order to maintain boundaries, but it's a little bit alarming to me actually to feel calm. As if I've just forgiven her and I can just move on. That part would be fine, but at the end of the day, I have to remember which boundaries she crossed and when so that I can continue to defend them.

I think the other part that "helps" me feel less angry is that my husband really has grown a lot in his dealings with his mother.

I'm just now more afraid that I'm going to have some false sense of security and let my guard down somehow. That would not be wise with this woman.

[Notwendy]

I think it is good to let go of anger- not for her, but good for you.

Your boundaries are not set out of anger, they are set according to your values. They are in this sense - a form of self love. You maintain your boundaries because you value yourself, and so, you don't have to be angry at anyone to have them.

Think of a boundary as a lock on your door.  Do you lock your door because you are angry at someone, or do you lock your door because you care about the people and contents in your home and want to protect them.

You won't have a false sense of security with your MIL with boundaries. Your boundaries are your security because they don't just apply to her. They apply to everyone. Sure you may have different ones with different people, just as you let some people have the key to your home. But the lock on the door is your security.

You may slip up with MIL. This doesn't mean you failed. My mother sometimes gets my goat. This is because she is relentless. Metaphorically- if I put a lock on the front door - she circles the house, looking for a crack in the window, or if someone left the side door ajar.


One example- ( my kids are old enough to have their own phones) - if I don't give her the number- she goes through as many of the relatives she knows ( some give in ) till she gets them.

When the kids were younger, I did have boundaries around her contact with them. Now that they are older, I taught the kids to have their own boundaries with her, and they are really good at that. These are skills they take with them- with anyone who tries to manipulate them.

Sometimes my mother will be sneaky and call them, thinking she is doing something behind my back and she seems to get satisfaction when thinking she got around a boundary. She doesn't realize that I don't care if she does that now, because they are old enough to know to have boundaries with her. The "lock" isn't on the phone number, it is with them and their boundary skills.

Sometimes she does get my goat though. We don't think about things the same way. I  don't know how to anticipate what she does because I don't have her set of relationship tools, I have a different one. So, sometimes she gets past a boundary or I react to her. This isn't a failure, it is a learning experience.

If MIL crosses your boundary, you can learn from that too.