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Author Topic: Need some help how to handle this... Honest opinions plz.  (Read 701 times)
AllNightLong
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« on: March 17, 2017, 05:58:43 AM »

Hi everyone.

I feel my head is all cloudy and i can't get my thoughts straight and i would love to get some honest feedback in how i could handle the situation with my BPD wife.

We have been together for 12 years and married in 4 of them. She has abused me mentally and physically for about 10 years now back and forth in periods.

1, She could really flip from happy to raging in a split of a second for something i say, do, don't do or even i have the wrong face expression when she tells me something. I have been trying after great tips from here to Validate and not Invalidate her and it works Ok sometimes. I've also tried not to say anything and just listen instead of JADE but she just gets worse and goes on and on until she breaks me and i scream back. How can i handle this? Suggestions?

In my world the best thing would be to take a time out but she doesn't allow me to leave the room or the house, she follows me around and keep screaming at me. If i lock myself in the bathroom she will pound and kick on the door until i get out from there.
If i tell her that i will go away until she calms down she will become physical/threatening and/or destroy my things anything that makes me stay.

If i just run out and jump in the car she will use our kids against me telling me that she can't take care of the kids now and this breaks me completly. If i try to take them with me i honestly don't know what she will do. We have one S2 and one S3months that is breastfeeding and i can't start putting them on clothes cause i'm not sure what will happen.

I've tried to do all kind of things telling her to yell at me later but not infront of the kids but she can't control herself.

Please any idea, please give me some honest feedback.

2, We have agreed not to talk in the mornings before me leaving for work (she is home with the youngest) cause she usually has a bad temper in the morning. Even if she comes up happy i can say even the smallest thing and she will start a discussion, even if i tell her i HAVE to go to work she will "keep me hostage", and when i actually leave she will call me and keep on discussing. She doesn't care what we agreed upon before since i'm such an a**hole. If i can't get her in a good mood before i'm at work (25 min drive) she will keep on going and if it's bad she will once more let me know that she can't take care of the kids and will go to bed and let them be. In this way she forces me to come home again so she can keep arguing. I've been calling in sick, or letting my co-workers know i "work from home" so many times now so i'm not suprised if they soon will start to ask questions.
Every time i lie and make up things.

These things happens also for other events like meeting friends or other fun things no matter if she will join or not.

3, She keeps me responsible to all her feelings and things gone wrong. She never done anything wrong, it's only me pushing her into do the things that happened and if it's not me it's someone at work or whatever.
No matter what i say or do i never understands good enough or i'm not enough supportive.
When she has a bad day it's up to me to save her from it otherwise she will ruin the day for the whole family by acting as point 1.

Thoughts?

4, I have a lot of things i enjoy doing but i don't dare to plan for it since i know she will fight me about it. She doesn't have any hobbies and says she only have me and nobody else cares about her.
Here i guess i have to set up boundries so i be able to do the things i enjoy even if she doesn't approve.
I've been trying to do this but she always breaks me and letting me know how selfish i am to even thinking about doing things without her and/or the boys.

5, It really feels i have painted her all black, she makes me angry in a way no one ever have before but i would never do her any harm what so ever. But i have problems not screaming back anymore, i can sit silent for 30 min up to 2 hours sometimes and just listening to her rage but then i just feel enough and snaps back.
I don't think i love her anymore and just feeling bad thinking about her. But i'm staying because i'm afraid of taking the step and what will happen and also for the kids. I read the workshop on here about this topic (staying for the kids) and it gave me some courage and insight that this will be very bad for the kids in the longterm.


Please give me any thoughts, critics, suggestions or other tip in how i can proceed cause this is breaking me to the ground and i don't want to live like this anymore.


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formflier
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« Reply #1 on: March 17, 2017, 08:18:27 AM »



I didn't get to read your post in detail... .but a couple things jumped out at me.

Tell me how long it will be between rages?  You said it has been going on 10 years... .is it generally getting worse... better... or cyclical?  I am seeing hints of cyclical... .is this correct?

Basically... describe over the course of a year the ups and downs of the r/s... big picture stuff.


OK... .look at what I quoted and bolded  below.  You KNOW what she is after.  The more she "gets" that... the more she will push for it.


  goes on and on until she breaks me and i scream back.

  If i lock myself in the bathroom she will pound and kick on the door until i get out from there.



Do you see that?  She keeps going because it works for her.

Please take a couple weeks and try to clear your head.  Don't change anything in your behavior.  After two weeks, you need to make a change or two... .likely something small... .and it needs to hold

Big picture:  If you take your life back... .your r/s will get better.  We don't know how much better it will be... .there will be trial and error.

How does this sound?

FF
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AllNightLong
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« Reply #2 on: March 17, 2017, 08:53:52 AM »


I didn't get to read your post in detail... .but a couple things jumped out at me.

Tell me how long it will be between rages?  You said it has been going on 10 years... .is it generally getting worse... better... or cyclical?  I am seeing hints of cyclical... .is this correct?

Basically... describe over the course of a year the ups and downs of the r/s... big picture stuff.


OK... .look at what I quoted and bolded  below.  You KNOW what she is after.  The more she "gets" that... the more she will push for it.



Do you see that?  She keeps going because it works for her.

Please take a couple weeks and try to clear your head.  Don't change anything in your behavior.  After two weeks, you need to make a change or two... .likely something small... .and it needs to hold

Big picture:  If you take your life back... .your r/s will get better.  We don't know how much better it will be... .there will be trial and error.

How does this sound?

FF

It's definetly cyclical, it's like we get into periods were there is arguings almost every day and then it can be some time and everything gets better and when you finally start to relax a new wave of fights will come.

In the big picture i would say, the longest period without a fight and everything has been good has been for about 3 months and that was when i told her i didn't know if i wanted to live with her after one fight that got out of hand and she actually put some of my clothes on fire.
During these 3 months i put up some boundries that she couldn't  move at first cause i was so determind that i would leave. This was when we were waiting our second kid and i trusted her when she promised "never again". As soon as i put my guard down she started to go back to the old behaviour and soon the rages and violence got back.

During the years it's usually periods for 1-3 months were there only "minor rages" and then we get into the "next period" when everything gets worse again and then it goes round like that.

Yes i know what she is after but when i feel unable to get away from the situation i will just get enough and it feels lika i can't take it anymore. It's like a get a flash of " hey, i don't deserve this sh*t" but it's still not strong enough to keep it up and get away.

It just feels like i'm drowning and loosing myself and I'm soo afraid of talking about this to anyone. So during all these years the first time i ever wrote about this was last week when you started to helping me in my first thread.

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« Reply #3 on: March 17, 2017, 10:40:27 AM »


OK... .big picture.  You've seen the cycles.  What is the likelihood that they will continue?

The cycles aren't your "fault"... .but you DO have an impact on the severity of them.

Do you think your clothes would have ended up on fire if you would have said "I need to sit with my feelings for a bit.  It would mean a lot to me if we could continue this conversation later tonight... "

instead of "I'm outta here... " (paraphrase I know... )

But... .the point is... she heard "I'm outta here... ".  Fear of abandonment kicked in... .the rest is history.




i told her i didn't know if i wanted to live with her after one fight that got out of hand and she actually put some of my clothes on fire.


During these 3 months i put up some boundries that she couldn't  move


Can you tell me more about the boundaries that you put up?

FF
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DaddyBear77
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« Reply #4 on: March 17, 2017, 11:50:12 AM »

Formflier is saying and asking some important things. He's helped me quite a bit so please don't let me interrupt. But I will say that you are describing a scenario that might as well be mine. The postpartum period was especially hard, and I often "worked from home" because my uBPDw just couldn't possibly take care of our daughter.

Your story really helps put things into the proper perspective. Thanks for sharing it.
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AllNightLong
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« Reply #5 on: March 17, 2017, 02:29:17 PM »

OK... .big picture.  You've seen the cycles.  What is the likelihood that they will continue?

The cycles aren't your "fault"... .but you DO have an impact on the severity of them.

Do you think your clothes would have ended up on fire if you would have said "I need to sit with my feelings for a bit.  It would mean a lot to me if we could continue this conversation later tonight... "

instead of "I'm outta here... " (paraphrase I know... )

But... .the point is... she heard "I'm outta here... ".  Fear of abandonment kicked in... .the rest is history.




Can you tell me more about the boundaries that you put up?

FF

Thank you as always for you excelent questions and clear mind when mine is dark and cloudy.

Yes i think the cycles will continue as long as i don't will put some boundries.

I do know that i have a big part in this of course, I think i react as i do because i just can't take it anymore. I just don't know in what way i can express this and it becomes in frustration.

I have tried most ways of getting away:
Please not infront of the kids.
Can i just go upstairs get my sh*t together cause i start to feel frustrated.
leave without saying anything.
Could I just get a 15 min break and we can talk later?
I will just go for a walk.
SHUT UP I'M LEAVING
I'm outta here.

Every single one has given me the same thing just in different ways. She just will not back off. Not even if she leaves and takes the car she will leave me alone. She will text me, call me or whatever just to keep going.
I once took the car and left and i my phone didn't have any reception for like 10 minutes. I had 30 calls and 74 text during that time, how is that even possible?


About the boundries i put up was that i wanted ME time. I didn't want to spend any time with her at all.
I made it clear that if she was getting upset she was leaving the room/house cause i was not willing to discuss anything in bad mannor.

Honestly it felt like she was "dead to me". I felt so much anger and that made me keep this boundries. But "unfortunetly" i'm a loving, kind, fun and gentle guy who wants to see the good in everyone and that made me give her another chance.

The problem is now when she violated it i don't know what to do cause i feel so powerless.

We just got back from a walk where she told me that everything that ever happened is my fault. As soon as i mentioned that maybe everything isn't my fault she started to scream at me. As i don't have any energy to argue i promised to try to make everything up to her. I have lied to her for so many years and she is so angry over that but i've done it by fear and to try to keep the peace but not it catching up and i really don't have the focus to deal with it now.


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AllNightLong
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« Reply #6 on: March 17, 2017, 02:31:36 PM »

Formflier is saying and asking some important things. He's helped me quite a bit so please don't let me interrupt. But I will say that you are describing a scenario that might as well be mine. The postpartum period was especially hard, and I often "worked from home" because my uBPDw just couldn't possibly take care of our daughter.

Your story really helps put things into the proper perspective. Thanks for sharing it.

Hey DaddyBear77,
I've read a lot of your texts and please you don't interrupt. To be honest i was hoping you should write something and share some of your thoughts cause we have some similarities in the situations.

I'm so greatful that i found this place and for everyone that is sharing and trying to help.

Please DaddyBear77 let me know if i can help you by sharing anything as well.
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« Reply #7 on: March 17, 2017, 02:36:11 PM »

Couple "big picture" concepts.

Dysregulation is like a flash fire... .burning off emotional energy.  Once it gets going... .let it burn itself out.  :)O NOT add fuel to the fire.  At this point it's not personal anymore... .it is... .what it is.

So... .your entire being needs to think about NOT adding fuel to the fire.  You can't really make it better... .so don't make it worse.

You WILL feel better if you can do this AND be honest.  

"I'm going to take a break before I say something I will regret... "

"This conversation has gotten too intense for me... .I'm going to take a break... ."

Note:  No blame... .it's about you... it's honest.

Add something like... ."I'll check in with you in 15 minutes... .1 hour... "  You are NOT asking... .she will not agree.

You take care of you.

For you sake... turn off your phone for the amount of time you say.

Then... turn it on, ignore what she has sent.  Check in with her.  Ignore the dysregulation... .don't engage her on it.

Start over... .if she can have a reasonable conversation... .then continue.  If not... wash... rinse... repeat... .

Do you think you can do this... .?

FF
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« Reply #8 on: March 17, 2017, 02:37:05 PM »


There is no option I know of where she is happy about you protecting yourself.

Get that clear in your mind... .

FF
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DaddyBear77
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« Reply #9 on: March 17, 2017, 03:45:51 PM »

Oh my Lord, this is my life!

"didn't have any reception for like 10 minutes. I had 30 calls and 74 text during that time, how is that even possible?"
They have some secret method of repeating texts and calls, I swear that's true.

"We just got back from a walk where she told me that everything that ever happened is my fault."
What is it with walks? The one I took a week or two ago was all about how I'm just waiting for the opportunity to destroy her life and our child's life by making them homeless and penny-less.
Also, I think that's written down in some rule book somewhere for pwBPD - 'Rule 1: No matter what, it's the other person's fault'

"I have lied to her for so many years and she is so angry over that but i've done it by fear and to try to keep the peace ... ."
Have you ever tried to tell her WHY you lied, and explained that it was to keep the peace and out of fear? Because, um, don't bother. Which you already know if you've tried.


I'm really glad you were able to get something out of my posts. Formflier, Notwendy, Grey Kitty, everyone else, they've given such great advice and guidance. Even if I don't post, I come back here each day to "touch base" and try and find a different path forward that day.

It might help to know the two books I'm working through right now.

The first is "Stop Caretaking the Borderline or Narcissist: How to End the Drama and Get On with Life" by Margalis Fjelstad. Notwendy brought this to my attention and SO much of it has resonated with me. I suspect it will with you, too.

The second is "Splitting: Protecting Yourself While Divorcing Someone with Borderline or Narcissistic Personality Disorder" by Bill Eddy and Randi Kreger. Even if you're not considering leaving yet, this one can help you understand what the "leaving" option might mean for you.

I'm sure there's a lot more I could say if my mind was a little clearer, so I'll add more as this thread goes along, but you're in the right place - glad you came by.

DB
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AllNightLong
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« Reply #10 on: March 17, 2017, 05:03:17 PM »

Couple "big picture" concepts.

Dysregulation is like a flash fire... .burning off emotional energy.  Once it gets going... .let it burn itself out.  :)O NOT add fuel to the fire.  At this point it's not personal anymore... .it is... .what it is.

So... .your entire being needs to think about NOT adding fuel to the fire.  You can't really make it better... .so don't make it worse.

You WILL feel better if you can do this AND be honest.  

"I'm going to take a break before I say something I will regret... "

"This conversation has gotten too intense for me... .I'm going to take a break... ."

Note:  No blame... .it's about you... it's honest.

Add something like... ."I'll check in with you in 15 minutes... .1 hour... "  You are NOT asking... .she will not agree.

You take care of you.

For you sake... turn off your phone for the amount of time you say.

Then... turn it on, ignore what she has sent.  Check in with her.  Ignore the dysregulation... .don't engage her on it.

Start over... .if she can have a reasonable conversation... .then continue.  If not... wash... rinse... repeat... .

Do you think you can do this... .?

FF

I know, deep inside i know soo well that i Should not add any fuel but it's so hard not to when she comes with false accusations. This week she started with that i'm cheating on her. This doesn't bother me since it's so ridicoulus.

About her raging on text and Calls i usually never brings that up since it doesn't come any good from it, just a bit annoying when trying to calm down.

I guess you are right she will not approve and doesn't have to.

I think i can do this and Will do mys best to give it a try!
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AllNightLong
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« Reply #11 on: March 17, 2017, 05:07:58 PM »

Oh my Lord, this is my life!
They have some secret method of repeating texts and calls, I swear that's true.
What is it with walks? The one I took a week or two ago was all about how I'm just waiting for the opportunity to destroy her life and our child's life by making them homeless and penny-less.
Also, I think that's written down in some rule book somewhere for pwBPD - 'Rule 1: No matter what, it's the other person's fault'
Have you ever tried to tell her WHY you lied, and explained that it was to keep the peace and out of fear? Because, um, don't bother. Which you already know if you've tried.


I'm really glad you were able to get something out of my posts. Formflier, Notwendy, Grey Kitty, everyone else, they've given such great advice and guidance. Even if I don't post, I come back here each day to "touch base" and try and find a different path forward that day.

It might help to know the two books I'm working through right now.

The first is "Stop Caretaking the Borderline or Narcissist: How to End the Drama and Get On with Life" by Margalis Fjelstad. Notwendy brought this to my attention and SO much of it has resonated with me. I suspect it will with you, too.

The second is "Splitting: Protecting Yourself While Divorcing Someone with Borderline or Narcissistic Personality Disorder" by Bill Eddy and Randi Kreger. Even if you're not considering leaving yet, this one can help you understand what the "leaving" option might mean for you.

I'm sure there's a lot more I could say if my mind was a little clearer, so I'll add more as this thread goes along, but you're in the right place - glad you came by.

DB

Thank you for a great post daddybear!

Totally agree and recognize so much in what you write about the walk and everything!

Trying to explain why i lie? You bet! But it's really impossible, no matter how you say it or what you say it's just another lie or it's still your fault!

I Will look in to both of the books right away!
And yeah even if i'm not ready to leave it feels like i'm heading in that direction.

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« Reply #12 on: March 18, 2017, 03:55:08 PM »



I think i can do this and Will do mys best to give it a try!

Trust me... .the best way to get rid of false allegations/accusations is to ignore them.  Even better if you can validate a valid emotion while ignoring them.  90% of the benefit comes from "not reacting".

This coming from a guy that was regularly accused of big time crazy stuff.  (having an out of wedlock child, having other wives... having secret houses... .)  The run of the mill accusation of I screwed some woman was so commonplace... .I stopped counting.  I only really remember the entertaining stuff.   

FF
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AllNightLong
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« Reply #13 on: March 19, 2017, 01:42:28 PM »

Trust me... .the best way to get rid of false allegations/accusations is to ignore them.  Even better if you can validate a valid emotion while ignoring them.  90% of the benefit comes from "not reacting".

This coming from a guy that was regularly accused of big time crazy stuff.  (having an out of wedlock child, having other wives... having secret houses... .)  The run of the mill accusation of I screwed some woman was so commonplace... .I stopped counting.  I only really remember the entertaining stuff.   

FF

I guess you are right!

What should i do when she tries to force me to do the situation better right now! Because it's My fault she feeling this or that?
She wont wait until later cause she feels like this now and it's up to me to make her feel better?

It's like before the Walk this friday, i was putting on My shoes and was just looking at nothing and was in My own thoughts. Suddenly she sees me and ask me whats wrong?
I tell her nothing, just a bit tired after this job week.
This made her feel soo bad and i Should make her feel better but no matter what i say or do it just gets worse.

How do i get her to understand that it's time for her to take responsibility for her own actions, feelings and emotions?

Please could you give me some advice?
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« Reply #14 on: March 19, 2017, 05:36:14 PM »

First off, you are 100% right--she does need to take responsibility for her own actions and feelings.

How do i get her to understand that it's time for her to take responsibility for her own actions, feelings and emotions?

You cannot make her do this. You cannot convince her to do this.

The best you can do is remove yourself from this sort of crazy situation, and let her figure it out on her own, and trust that someday she will get there.

If you comfort her, you save her from dealing with her own feelings. (Often she won't accept comfort from you anyways)

If you let her turn it into a fight, or make it "all your fault", she gets to avoid her (original) feelings by being mad at you.

... .I know how this works, because I did it to my wife years ago. When I removed myself as a target for the rage, she had to figure out something different. First she aimed it at herself. (That was tough on her and tough for me to see!) Then she figured out (on her own!) that it wasn't a good solution either, and actually found better ways to cope with her feelings.
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« Reply #15 on: March 19, 2017, 06:14:25 PM »



What you DO need to convince your wife of, by your actions (90%) and words (10%) is that you ARE NOT going to take responsibility for her emotions.

Action part (the most effective part).  While we know this will likely often result in your leaving (walking away)... .your actions before that are important as well.

Actions

1.  Stay calm and perhaps "lean in" to her a bit.  I want you to think about being an active listener.  The "imaginary thing" that I want you to focus on to help guide your actions is to act empathetic as you hand the problem back to her

It would be helpful for you to give us several he said she saids... .perhaps more detail on the "what's wrong thing... "

There will be some trial and error... .what worked best for my wife... .might not for yours.

Here is what I would do for "what's wrong"

Express some surprise and shock... ."Oh my... was in my own little world there for a minute... .thanks for your concern.  Are you asking about my emotions?" 

In my mind... .my question about asking about my emotions was "handing it back to her".  I'm also being true to my values and not assuming what she is doing.  She has a chance to clarify her purpose.  I'm also making a point of precisely identifying whose emotions are being talked about.

In the early stages she would retort that she didn't need to ask... .it was obvious... etc etc.  I held a strong boundary on that and would say something like... "I appreciate your concern for my emotions.  It would mean a lot to me for you to let me express my emotions to you."

retort retort.

"I'm going to take a break from this conversation.  When I come back in 10 minutes, if you are ready to listen to my emotions, I'll be ready to share.  Leave  don't engage with her at all for 10 minutes.

wash rinse repeat.

As things got better (this took months) I would switch to... .  "Oh my goodness... .thanks for asking... I was in my own world.  I'm good... nothing wrong.  Would you like to share your feelings with me?

Again... handing her the issue for a clear answer

Do you see the theory being used to "hand it back to her... "

FF

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« Reply #16 on: March 20, 2017, 03:32:46 AM »

First off, you are 100% right--she does need to take responsibility for her own actions and feelings.

You cannot make her do this. You cannot convince her to do this.

The best you can do is remove yourself from this sort of crazy situation, and let her figure it out on her own, and trust that someday she will get there.

If you comfort her, you save her from dealing with her own feelings. (Often she won't accept comfort from you anyways)

If you let her turn it into a fight, or make it "all your fault", she gets to avoid her (original) feelings by being mad at you.

... .I know how this works, because I did it to my wife years ago. When I removed myself as a target for the rage, she had to figure out something different. First she aimed it at herself. (That was tough on her and tough for me to see!) Then she figured out (on her own!) that it wasn't a good solution either, and actually found better ways to cope with her feelings.

Thank you for confirming that i'm not totally insane.

I just don't know how i should be able to remove myself from the situtation.
How should i react if she tells me that she can't take care of the kids if i just leave? When something is tough for her she lay in the bed and feeling sorry for her self and it's up to me to "save her" from it otherwise she will do anything to drag be into it as well.

Any idea?
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« Reply #17 on: March 20, 2017, 04:50:47 AM »


What you DO need to convince your wife of, by your actions (90%) and words (10%) is that you ARE NOT going to take responsibility for her emotions.

Action part (the most effective part).  While we know this will likely often result in your leaving (walking away)... .your actions before that are important as well.

Actions

1.  Stay calm and perhaps "lean in" to her a bit.  I want you to think about being an active listener.  The "imaginary thing" that I want you to focus on to help guide your actions is to act empathetic as you hand the problem back to her

It would be helpful for you to give us several he said she saids... .perhaps more detail on the "what's wrong thing... "

There will be some trial and error... .what worked best for my wife... .might not for yours.

Here is what I would do for "what's wrong"

Express some surprise and shock... ."Oh my... was in my own little world there for a minute... .thanks for your concern.  Are you asking about my emotions?" 

In my mind... .my question about asking about my emotions was "handing it back to her".  I'm also being true to my values and not assuming what she is doing.  She has a chance to clarify her purpose.  I'm also making a point of precisely identifying whose emotions are being talked about.

In the early stages she would retort that she didn't need to ask... .it was obvious... etc etc.  I held a strong boundary on that and would say something like... "I appreciate your concern for my emotions.  It would mean a lot to me for you to let me express my emotions to you."

retort retort.

"I'm going to take a break from this conversation.  When I come back in 10 minutes, if you are ready to listen to my emotions, I'll be ready to share.  Leave  don't engage with her at all for 10 minutes.

wash rinse repeat.

As things got better (this took months) I would switch to... .  "Oh my goodness... .thanks for asking... I was in my own world.  I'm good... nothing wrong.  Would you like to share your feelings with me?

Again... handing her the issue for a clear answer

Do you see the theory being used to "hand it back to her... "

FF



Thank you for some good advice!

1, first scenario is what happened last friday. I just made my shoes stood up for a bit and was thinking about what should be done later. This is when she asks me whats wrong?
Me: Nothing, just had a long week and thinking about the weekend.
She: No you're not, please tell me whats wrong?
Me: It's ok just standing in my own thoughts, time to go?

We go 25 meters and she stops and say and i quote:
You make me feel so bad! Now i have a bad feeling in my stomach that you are lying as you always do! ( We have a history of this that i always been trying to say what she need cause i don't want to argue (walking on eggshells much?)).
Me: It's Ok honey i assure you that everything is fine (invalidating?)

But she kept going for 1,5 hours walk about how much i lie to her and i have to make her feel better now and i should make her happy because i ruined her life!
I kept calm, trying to validate her feelings but it didn't work to well. It burned out after i promised to make up for the 12 last years since i've been an ass all the time. She never done anything wrong... .I really can't take this sh*t anymore... .

2, Last night. We should watch a new Tv serie that had premier last night, as usual we are getting a bit late and when she starts to get stressed and have a time to make then she starts to argue with me.
So she got in from the laundry room and i hear her tone when she starts talking to me and know that this will not be good but i think i should stay calm.
We have 10 minutes until the show starts and should get something to eat so we standing in the kitchen when she ask me why i never helps clean up after our kid, why i never clean up if he spills out his milk and goes on and on about how i never is doing anything to help her out. (This is so much BS even if she is better than me cleaning because i could be a bit lazy but i always clean up if he spills or something like that i didn't say this to her of course.)

Me: Ok i understand your frustaration and i will do my best to think about this in the future.
She: NO, not in the future you should change this NOW.
Me: Ok, i will change this and make sure to help you out with these things.
She: what is wrong now, why are you acting like that?
Me: Sorry, i just gets a bit stressed and nervous to have this conversation now when the show soon starts.
She: Ok, so now i can't even talk to you around here, i should just walk around feeling bad right?
Me: Of course not, i just feel stressed when we talk with that tone to eachother.
She: You can eat and look at the fking show my yourself.

Me: Later i apologized and said that i shouldn't have said anything.

Then we got to bed and i thought we were all good, but big mistake.

This morning instead she came down right before i should leave for work, telling me how bad i was for destroying her weekend, how much i must hate her and that i lied last friday since i haven't made everything up to her during the weekend for all the years I destroyed for her.
So now i was 30 min late because i needed to convince her that i do love her and i not hate her and still want to make everything up to her.

I'm getting sick of this and just start to feel that i really don't wanna live my life like this.

I hate myself for always caving in and just do what she needs from me and not what i want.

I'm not even allowed to talk about all the things she done to us and me, cause that makes her feel bad and then i want to hurt her. And it's still all my fault since i got her to do these things.

Feels like i'm going to break down soon, and i have 3 very important weeks coming up and can't have this on my back too so i'm tripping even more on eggshels trying to do everything i can not to make her irritated.
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« Reply #18 on: March 20, 2017, 08:35:28 AM »

OK... .great post!  That is the detail that we need to get an accurate view of the dynamic.

Big question:

Does caving in work?

Let me break this down a bit more.

Does it "appear" to work in the moment?  :)id it work in the longer term?  Longer term being day... weekend.



She: NO, not in the future you should change this NOW.
Me: Ok, i will change this and make sure to help you out with these things.
 

I hate myself for always caving in and just do what she needs from me and not what i want.
 

Here is the thing... . It appears to me that you understand that your actions/reactions are not helping.  Is that where your feelings are coming from?

https://bpdfamily.com/content/emotional-blackmail-fear-obligation-and-guilt-fog

I think your focus for the next few days is to reread your posts... .read the FOG article some.  

There is a basic decision for you to make... .YOU are at a fork in the road.  Ummm... .let me change that... .You are at a stoplight and deciding to go straight ahead... .or make a U turn.

You've been going straight for a while... . How has that been working out for you?


Oh yeah... the basic decision.  

Are you going to trust that your wife is an adult and should be able to manage her emotions... .

or

Are you going to continue to make yourself available to "fix", "take blame", etc etc... .


I do understand that it can be scary (fear)... .and there is a sense that we are supposed to "help" (obligation)... .and her words certainly work wonders with activating your guilt for not being better... .doing what she wants... .etc etc...

I love movies... .use them in my post.  The choice you need to make is a big deal...

https://youtu.be/RhlXqYiTz2Q

FF
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« Reply #19 on: March 20, 2017, 08:48:59 AM »



I just don't know how i should be able to remove myself from the situtation.
How should i react if she tells me that she can't take care of the kids if i just leave?  

Give me the ages of the kids again?

We do need to honor what they say.  Not ever a good idea to leave kids with a person that says they won't take care of them.  

Do you have a recorder app for your phone?  If not download and start using it.  When it comes to who is doing or saying what with the kids... .you need "proof" that you are taking reasonable action that is in the kids best interests

This is for your protection... .not to "prove" things to your wife.  


Big picture:  This ties back to my earlier idea about having a backup plan (that your wife doesn't know about).  

So... .it's Saturday morning and you have plans (based on prior conversations with your wife) and she says she feels bad.

Now is not the time for weird communication.  Be succinct.

Oh my goodness... .do you need to go to the doctor?  Likely she will blather and say no...

Are you going to be able to care for our children as we planned?

She will likely blather and not answer.  A non answer is an answer.  Take the kids to the backup... quickly.  No deal making... .

Let your wife know what time you will be back with the children... .then go live your life.  


The importance of planning ahead.

1.  Have some caring things ready in the fridge and soup in the pantry.  Let's say she is in bed... .leave her glass of water, hot bowl of soup and some crackers.  That coupled with knowledge of when you will be back is a healthy, reasonable act of compassion for someone that feels bad but doesn't want to go to the doctor.  Let her know there is more prepared.  Leave the house let her care for herself.

2.  Have kids dressed and ready to walk out door.  The last thing you want is to try to be dressing them while your mad wife is yammering away.  Think this through.  That means car seats ready... bag already in the car.

3.  Once you leave... .likely not a good idea to respond to the phone.  You will have to do some trial and error to see if one succinct response saying "I hope the soup helps you feel better.  I'll be home with kids at 6.  Hopefully you can get some rest."

Literally... .ignore it after that.

FF

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« Reply #20 on: March 20, 2017, 09:10:25 AM »

OK... .great post!  That is the detail that we need to get an accurate view of the dynamic.

Big question:

Does caving in work?

Let me break this down a bit more.

Does it "appear" to work in the moment?  :)id it work in the longer term?  Longer term being day... weekend.


Here is the thing... . It appears to me that you understand that your actions/reactions are not helping.  Is that where your feelings are coming from?

https://bpdfamily.com/content/emotional-blackmail-fear-obligation-and-guilt-fog

I think your focus for the next few days is to reread your posts... .read the FOG article some.  

There is a basic decision for you to make... .YOU are at a fork in the road.  Ummm... .let me change that... .You are at a stoplight and deciding to go straight ahead... .or make a U turn.

You've been going straight for a while... . How has that been working out for you?


Oh yeah... the basic decision.  

Are you going to trust that your wife is an adult and should be able to manage her emotions... .

or

Are you going to continue to make yourself available to "fix", "take blame", etc etc... .


I do understand that it can be scary (fear)... .and there is a sense that we are supposed to "help" (obligation)... .and her words certainly work wonders with activating your guilt for not being better... .doing what she wants... .etc etc...

I love movies... .use them in my post.  The choice you need to make is a big deal...

https://youtu.be/RhlXqYiTz2Q

FF

The Big question, Caving in does usually work after a while, just "sit there" and let her rage, tell her i'm sorry, make her some stupid promises of how i will make her feel good again.

This works in the matter of calming the situation, instead of standing up for myself och leave or rage back (i know rage back is never a good thing). BUT it makes me feel so bad in my mind, in my heart. I really hate these situations and that i handling it as i do. I Wish i only stod up and walked away.

I know my way of responding to her is no longtime solution. The only thing it does is that hopefully she backs of for a day or two. But the next time she will use it against me.

I think this is also the reason why i hate myself for caving in cause it makes me so angry on myself for not making the right decisions.

I'm getting closer to the final decision and i'm 95% sure what it will be.

It feels like i'm the one that have to "save" her and i don't wanna do that anymore. I feel that she SHOULD take responsibility for ther own behavior and feelings.

I will start reading about FOG and see if i will be any wiser.

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« Reply #21 on: March 20, 2017, 09:17:36 AM »

Give me the ages of the kids again?

We do need to honor what they say.  Not ever a good idea to leave kids with a person that says they won't take care of them.  

Do you have a recorder app for your phone?  If not download and start using it.  When it comes to who is doing or saying what with the kids... .you need "proof" that you are taking reasonable action that is in the kids best interests

This is for your protection... .not to "prove" things to your wife.  


Big picture:  This ties back to my earlier idea about having a backup plan (that your wife doesn't know about).  

So... .it's Saturday morning and you have plans (based on prior conversations with your wife) and she says she feels bad.

Now is not the time for weird communication.  Be succinct.

Oh my goodness... .do you need to go to the doctor?  Likely she will blather and say no...

Are you going to be able to care for our children as we planned?

She will likely blather and not answer.  A non answer is an answer.  Take the kids to the backup... quickly.  No deal making... .

Let your wife know what time you will be back with the children... .then go live your life.  


The importance of planning ahead.

1.  Have some caring things ready in the fridge and soup in the pantry.  Let's say she is in bed... .leave her glass of water, hot bowl of soup and some crackers.  That coupled with knowledge of when you will be back is a healthy, reasonable act of compassion for someone that feels bad but doesn't want to go to the doctor.  Let her know there is more prepared.  Leave the house let her care for herself.

2.  Have kids dressed and ready to walk out door.  The last thing you want is to try to be dressing them while your mad wife is yammering away.  Think this through.  That means car seats ready... bag already in the car.

3.  Once you leave... .likely not a good idea to respond to the phone.  You will have to do some trial and error to see if one succinct response saying "I hope the soup helps you feel better.  I'll be home with kids at 6.  Hopefully you can get some rest."

Literally... .ignore it after that.

FF



They are 2 and 3 months. So they need all attention and makes it a bit harder.
In my opinion this is also why she "uses" them to put me in a tough spot where i have to choose to put them or me first which make me ego if i choose me.

You have some real good points here and i will try to use it next time.

It's only when heading to work this could be tough and she stands in the way.

IF i decide to file for divorce, which steps do you think i should take before letting her know?
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« Reply #22 on: March 20, 2017, 10:40:26 AM »



IF i decide to file for divorce, which steps do you think i should take before letting her know?

zero... no steps at all.

She learns when you file. 

There are tons of steps you would need to take in the background to make sure that you are ready.  Those steps are for you... .not her.  I have done similar things and found that a clear view of what I have to do in order to file divorce emboldened me to make healthier choices in my relationship.

Seriously... .if you are prepared to divorce... .why in the world would you not let her manager he own emotions.  What is she going to do... .divorce you?  Perhaps call you selfish?

Another view:  Sometimes it helps to stand back and realize that you are dealing (at times) with a toddler that is throwing a fit.  Toddlers throw fits because they get attention.   Make sense?

I'll have more comments in another post about the kids.

FF
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« Reply #23 on: March 20, 2017, 10:52:33 AM »

They are 2 and 3 months. So they need all attention and makes it a bit harder.
 

And... this is why I asked... .to make sure I wasn't missing something big... .  I was

So... to verify.  You have a 2 year old and a 3 month old.  Correct?

How has your wife been after this birth... compared to the last birth?

Breastfeeding?  Bottle?  Combination?

Any health issues with either of the kids?  Who takes them to the doctor?  Do you like their pediatrician? 

Do they go to any childcare at all or is it all given by you and your wife?

Reality check

I know... .lots of questions.  Listen... .I've got 8 kids.  Yeah... .not a typo.  My 7th child was born after "my wife went nutty" (BPD showed up) and then during a relative lull in the crazy I intentionally thought it was a good idea to get pregnant again.  (I thought we were fixed... )  My wife was OK with the idea... .but not thrilled.

Neither of us wants to get pregnant again and she uses a IUD. 

So... .do you have the birth control worked out so there are no more pregnancies?

Also... .can you take 3 months off planned weekend activities... .and/or limit it to once a month.  Where you figure out childcare ahead of time?  Don't even ask your wife.

I still DO want you to avoid crazy talk... .but I think we should be deliberate about thinking through childcare and how much you are expecting your wife to do.

This is not permanent... .lets get another few months of growing with the baby... .and a few months of getting your wife used to no crazy talk.

So... .last question.  Describe your work routine and your wife's childcare routine.  What does the week look like?

FF







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« Reply #24 on: March 20, 2017, 11:34:35 AM »

zero... no steps at all.

She learns when you file. 

There are tons of steps you would need to take in the background to make sure that you are ready.  Those steps are for you... .not her.  I have done similar things and found that a clear view of what I have to do in order to file divorce emboldened me to make healthier choices in my relationship.

Seriously... .if you are prepared to divorce... .why in the world would you not let her manager he own emotions.  What is she going to do... .divorce you?  Perhaps call you selfish?

Another view:  Sometimes it helps to stand back and realize that you are dealing (at times) with a toddler that is throwing a fit.  Toddlers throw fits because they get attention.   Make sense?

I'll have more comments in another post about the kids.

FF

Haha thank you for this post, made me laugh a bit.

I think i'm afraid of how it Will be for the kids.
I meen, i know she Will be extremely mean to me and do anything to hurt me but it feels tough not knowing how it Will effect the kids.
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« Reply #25 on: March 20, 2017, 11:52:14 AM »

And... this is why I asked... .to make sure I wasn't missing something big... .  I was

So... to verify.  You have a 2 year old and a 3 month old.  Correct?

How has your wife been after this birth... compared to the last birth?

Breastfeeding?  Bottle?  Combination?

Any health issues with either of the kids?  Who takes them to the doctor?  Do you like their pediatrician? 

Do they go to any childcare at all or is it all given by you and your wife?

Reality check

I know... .lots of questions.  Listen... .I've got 8 kids.  Yeah... .not a typo.  My 7th child was born after "my wife went nutty" (BPD showed up) and then during a relative lull in the crazy I intentionally thought it was a good idea to get pregnant again.  (I thought we were fixed... )  My wife was OK with the idea... .but not thrilled.

Neither of us wants to get pregnant again and she uses a IUD. 

So... .do you have the birth control worked out so there are no more pregnancies?

Also... .can you take 3 months off planned weekend activities... .and/or limit it to once a month.  Where you figure out childcare ahead of time?  Don't even ask your wife.

I still DO want you to avoid crazy talk... .but I think we should be deliberate about thinking through childcare and how much you are expecting your wife to do.

This is not permanent... .lets get another few months of growing with the baby... .and a few months of getting your wife used to no crazy talk.

So... .last question.  Describe your work routine and your wife's childcare routine.  What does the week look like?

FF









Yes, sorry i was a bit unclear. The first is 2 years and second is 3 months.
Both births has been quite tough for her cause they took some time but no complications.

She was acting bad last time as well with a lot of arguing during pregnancy but also after birth.
same the second time.

I have really tried to be there for her, but she is like a child. When trying the support her she will do it herself, when respecting that i'm stupid and doesn't care for her.
It doesn't matter what or how i do it it's just still wrong.

She is breastfeeding only and will do so until he is 6 months.

The 2 year old are at daycare mon, tue, thur for 5 hours each.

The usual setup is that i go to work around 7.20 am and is back 5.30pm, then one of us Cook a dinner, the other one handling the kids. Afterwok that one is making the 2 year old ready for bed and at 7 i put him to bed and will be back down around 8pm. Now we try to do some necessary things and then she want us to go to bed and watch a tv-serie. She can't understand If i need to do anything else and she really forces us to enter bed at the time otherwise she feels lonely.

This is a regular day, she walks the dogs, vacum clean and make laundry during the day.
If these things is not done while i get home i Will do some of it too.

She is so fixed in her head that everthing has to be perfect at home which meen i have to do it her way as well and i can't leave anything were i like it.
I respect this but it takes a lot of energy to keep it like that and espicially when she can argue for two hours when we finally got to bed about that the pillow in the couch wasn't in it's exact position.

About birth control i have it covered now. We Will not have sex unprotected.
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« Reply #26 on: March 20, 2017, 01:00:43 PM »



About birth control i have it covered now. We Will not have sex unprotected.


And... .keep it covered... .always... .regardless of what she says.     Doing the right thing (click to insert in post) This is your choice and how you control your future.   

Important enough of  a point to let it sit her... .all by itself. 

FF
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« Reply #27 on: March 20, 2017, 01:07:10 PM »

I just don't know how i should be able to remove myself from the situtation.
How should i react if she tells me that she can't take care of the kids if i just leave?

If she is dysregulating/raging/criticizing you, here are the steps I'd take to protect yourself, in order of increasing confrontation/severity:

1. You can go to the bathroom and get a ~5 minute break. (I'm assuming she won't chase you in there!) This gives you time to think, calm yourself, and plan out what else you might do.

2. Tell her "I won't be spoken to like this."  (and give her the opportunity to stop) You can use other language, but be clear that you are not making the choice to tolerate it.

3. Leave the room. (if she is staying in bed, she won't follow, at least!)

4. (If she does follow) Leave the house. [In good weather, walk around the block, or drive someplace close] I'd recommend going away for 15~20 minutes, because if she's upset it takes about that long for adrenaline to work its way out of the bloodstream.

I'm assuming that your children can be ignored/unsupervised for that length of time safely.

If she claims that her health is at risk if you leave, offer to take her to the hospital or call 911 instead, but make it clear that one of those three things is happening in the next minute.

If she holds your children or their health "hostage", that's another issue.

Also, please note--if you do leave (temporarily) and return, and find the rage/abuse/dysregulation starts right back up when you return, leave again. (After checking on the kids)
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« Reply #28 on: March 20, 2017, 01:07:32 PM »

She is so fixed in her head that everthing has to be perfect at home which meen i have to do it her way as well and i can't leave anything were i like it.

Big picture.  You need to take your life back

This is going to happen "one small step at a time".  If you try to change everything at once... .she will majorly freak.  She will freak anyway... .but you need to be wise about how you bring change about.

Once you start down this road.  Do not turn back  If you turn back... .it will get worse... not better.

Listen:  She has a right to be as picky as she wants about housework that she does.  You are her husband... .not her employee.

Also... .houses are about compromise.  So... .are there rooms in the house that you set up your way?  

What is an example of something you would like to leave out... .and she wants you to put away.  How does that go... .he said she said.

How much sleep does she get?

How much sleep do you get?

Is there a TV in the bedroom?  I'm assuming there is, because of the way you wrote things earlier.

Is there another place in the house you can sleep... .another bedroom.  Have you ever slept separately?


FF

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« Reply #29 on: March 20, 2017, 01:48:40 PM »

Listen:  She has a right to be as picky as she wants about housework that she does.  You are her husband... .not her employee.

Actually she has a right to be picky about the housework you do, and where you put a pillow on the couch. It may be silly, but she's allowed to want silly things, and you don't have any reason to stop that.

The line is that you don't have to accept abuse about it... .consider this:

Her: You put the cushion in the wrong place, (insert mind reading about how you did it to intentionally harm her here)

You: Sorry 'bout that. Let me put it where you like it. (You move cushion) Is this right?

And the conversation ends there. At that point, you remove yourself, if she continues blaming/attacking/raging/criticizing/etc.
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