Dysregulation after sex

[Jessica84]

Another fun-filled Saturday night in BPDland... . 

Had a nice relaxing day with uBPDbf. Fast forward a few hours... .we go to bed. Within seconds after sex, he reaches for his phone to check his facebook. Kind of hurt my feelings, which I accidentally express. I mean really, one full minute before moving onto something else would be nice. He said he just wanted to check his messages and saw a chick in a bikini so he went to look at her pictures. I'm thinking (but don't say), Ohhhh ok. Well in that case... .

Totally insensitive, but I let it go. He then goes on and on about 20-yr-old bodies. I start getting upset, ask him to stop. He does for a minute. Then storms off to the bathroom where he stays awhile. Then goes to another room and starts playing a video game, instead of back to bed like he normally does.

It felt so punitive. Ridiculous. Offensive. I sat there alone while he sulked in the other room. We had plans to go out later so I decided to talk to him, see if I could salvage the night - too soon I guess. I'm jealous, I ruin everything, I'm a b*itch, I'm a psycho, I interrogate him, blah blah. Yeah, ok. Guess movie night is cancelled. I put on my shoes to leave. That's when he accused me of using him for sex? I spent the whole day with him! And I planned on staying the weekend. But he got so ugly. Guess he wanted me to stay so he could ignore me some more while checking out facebook profiles or playing games... .or call me more names... .properly punish me for... .well, I'm not sure exactly? Anyway, I'm home now. Aaaaaand radio silence from him. That'll teach me!

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[Larmoyant]

Jessica84, this is one of those posts that I could have written myself. It took me right back to the devaluation and misery. His need to distance himself from fear of intimacy at your expense jumps off the page and I wanted to ask what you are doing for self-protection, other than leaving of course? Good move by the way. It’s just that this horrible behaviour did eventually get to me and caused such a lot of damage. Please take care of yourself. 

[Jessica84]

Thank you for your response. Yes, it's getting to me. Rudeness, name-calling. That's not ok. I can say this isn't the norm with us, but when his depression hits he can say really ugly things. All I know to do is avoid him when he gets like this. And find something fun to do, without him. That's my idea of self-care. 

[Grey Kitty]

Yeah, you know the tools by now, and avoiding him while doing something fun is the right thing for you; not much else you can do. 

That's when he accused me of using him for sex?

This sounds like it is mostly projection... .not anything valid about you.

BPD Behaviors: Projection

[Jessica84]

Thanks GK. Had a good day. Still no word from him (maybe that's why it was a good day  )

I don't know about projection. More like him being angry that I 'finished' and he hadn't, yet. (Sorry, don't know how to say that without getting too graphic). With all the meds he's on, he has ED-like symptoms. I am normally very patient and understanding about this (it can take hours!), but after all the rude comments I lost all interest in helping him fulfill his needs. Maybe he was hoping things would calm down so he could still have his 'turn'... .but I left. I've learned to leave before things get worse - I could see his hostility brewing and things weren't going to magically settle down on their own.

[WifeInOz]

So sorry you are going through this,... .I could have written this about my husband yet with different circumstances. You deserve better than this, I know you love him but as a person who jumped into marriage VERY quickly and was deceived by his "charm" and "lure", I would think long and hard about if I want to have this for the rest of my life if i were you.  I am stuck here now because I am financially dependent on him (he made it that way, long story). My health has suffered as a result of the stress. I love my husband dont get me wrong, but if i HAD KNOWN that he is borderline and was going to put me through hell BEFORE i married him, I NEVER would have said I DO.

[Grey Kitty]

I was wondering if his behavior would be described more accurately as using you for sex... .especially given how callous he was after, and thus the idea of projection. Given that he has ED-ish issues due to medication, that sounds less likely.

OTOH, I know that many guys get really messed up when their plumbing stops working the way it is supposed to... .even without anything vaguely resembling BPD.

  Good luck navigating this with him.

Is he open to sex-life-improving (for both of you!) problem solving around his ED-ish issues, or do you have to work around it without ever talking about it?

[Jessica84]

The ED symptoms have been going on for years, since we met. I know most men are sensitive about this. Understandable.

He talks about it pretty regularly now, with ease and without embarrassment. Wasn't always that way. We've made some improvements - introduced costumes, porn, role-play, etc. He's also been very honest with his doc who's having him take different meds at different times of the day to help curb those symptoms. It may take a little longer to get him there, but I never act like its a chore or shame him in any way. This is one area I have never invalidated him, even by mistake.

The fact that I left before he had his chance may have left him feeling 'used', but I doubt it. He was in a foul mood and had to find something to be mad about. I also don't think he uses me for sex. Validation, venting, talking about his troubles and worries, yes. But sex, no.

I'm at the point where a whole day of ST is irking me. I guess that is the point - to punish me. This was a huge overreaction. He admitted last week he overreacts at times - shows some self-awareness I guess. He even asked me not to come over on Fri - said he was in a bad mood and afraid we would get in a fight, that he didn't want that, and assured me he would be in a better mood by Sat. I really should have known better, but turning down his invite wouldn't have been good either. I think he was hoping his mood wouldn't turn sour, but it did. So now it's my fault, not his.

[Jessica84]

Well he just broke up with me by text. Beautiful. He also said it was mutual - news to me. Even knowing all I know about BPD I will never understand his thought process. I need special goggles to see what he sees. Maybe special hearing devices as well. This wasn't a major fight. It was barely anything, at first. Can't wrap my mind around how he managed to stretch this out all the way to a "mutual" breakup?

[Notwendy]

Jessica- you know this pattern well. I guess the main thing now is what do you want to do about this behavior?

You've been in this relationship long enough to know the situation. It is what it is. You take the good parts, and realize they come with the parts that are hurtful to you. This I think includes breakups and then reconciliation.

I think ED is a terrible blow to the ego- at any age, and that even if a man appears to be comfortable with it, he at some level is not. We are a youth oriented culture and those of us who are middle age may be affected by this to some degree- that younger people are considered to be more attractive. Changing hormones affect sexual performance.

Guys are wired to notice- just look at the men in a room when a Victoria Secret commercial is on. We notice handsome actors on TV too. But most of us also are rational about this. We know better than to hurt our SO's feelings. I wonder if what your BF was doing was trying to get himself turned on again- although it wasn't sensitive to you.

Will he be back? It seems to be a pattern- so probably. I guess the bigger question is - whatever he does- what do you want? It isn't pleasant to have this happen - especially after an intimate moment. Was the whole of it worth it - more good than unpleasant? Or is this something you don't want to deal with? There are two ways to go here- reconcile if he comes around- or see this as an opportunity for you to move on as well. I know this is the staying board- so I am not proposing one decision over another, but acknowledging that - while you can not control his decision or actions, you do have choices yourself.

[JoeBPD81]

I'm sorry it went like that, you don't know the movie it was playing on his head while you were away.  Maybe when he's ready to tell you, things can go better.  But yeah, this time can help you think about what you want.  I hope you get to be happy even if this time is hard. You seem like a person with a lot of insight. Take care of yourself.

[Jessica84]

Thank you for the input. He's already tiptoeing back in. Still weird to me how we can have a blowout one day, a breakup the next, then this morning he sends me a text about something he saw on the news, like nothing happened.

I'd say this is rare, but it happens often enough to be familiar. Few times a year. The breaks get shorter and shorter. I re-evaluate and each time things improve enough for me to stay.

I'd like to have another honest discussion to try to curb this. After an 8-day break a few years ago, we came up with a code word "timeout" - which meant if one of us leaves after an argument, it doesn't mean we're breaking up. It just means we are going to retreat to let the dust settle. Of course, when he dysregulates, he never remembers the code and pushes it to nuclear! When I left I said "I need a timeout". But my leaving triggers him... .every time. Staying is an even worse option when he's in that state. So... .not sure what the answer is. Should I tattoo the word "Timeout" to the back of his hand?

[JoeBPD81]

I think it is safe to say that the pwBPD doesn't save anything for tomorrow, it's all or nothing in the moment.

We can think "we won't say this, because I still want to be friends tomorrow", for them, there is no tomorrow, as they can't feel it exists. At least in dysregulated moments. Don't you think?

We are wired diferently, and we try to make sense of what it was said yesterday, how are things today and what we want in the future. But we can't (I don't know with years of preactice) hear absolute things and not feel hurt, we can't just think "this will be gone tomorrow". This hurting gets worse because, as you say, when it is over, then tend to act as if nothing had happened, no analysis, not a real apology... .And we are left feeling unclosed doors in the past, as if the ground wasn't firm enough... .I think it also hurts our sense of reality, the trust in our own perception. Did we hear it right? Did it blow up only in my mind?

I can't say how many times I have felt "there is no coming back after this". She had said something, that meant absolutely that she can't love me anymore, or that made it impossible to go back together, or have a future... .And then, two days later it is as if nothing happened. But nothing happened for her! I'm still living in my mind thinking "What the heck is this?" But I don't want to trigger anything, so I assume I have to deal with the confussion, until it is the right time to mention something.

[Notwendy]

When there is a parent - teenager scene in a movie and the teen screams "I hate you" at the parent, there is an audible chuckle in the theater from the parents who've been through that. The teen doesn't hate the parent but in the moment is angry, frustrated, and momentarily dysregulated due to the quick changes going on in them - growing/ hormones/ new feelings. For most - this is temporary.

I think in pwBPD- when dysregulated- they can only be in the moment- and in that moment of frustration and anger- they say what they feel right then. But like the upset teen- it isn't how they really feel long term.

If we were really honest with ourselves- we know we have moments of frustration with people we care about- but we are also aware that they are in the moment- and know the feeling doesn't last long. Someone with BPD may not be able to process this in the moment.

I'm familiar with the acting like nothing happened the next day. It's kind of like a kid with a stomach ache. After they throw up- they feel fine. They assume you do too. Although we have the tendency to think about and analyze the mess- I think it's simpler for them. I also wonder if they truly don't recall the dysregulated state once they have calmed down.

[Sunfl0wer]

I like your point, Notwendy, about teens screaming, "I hate you!" Yet not really meaning it.

I also wonder if they truly don't recall the dysregulated state once they have calmed down.

I think this is a combo of
(Current in the moment )feelings = facts & also compartmentalizing and distancing
Where they no longer feel that way so it feels like it happened ages ago.
They just feel so removed, distanced from it, not so connected to it.
(Aka dissociated from it)

[formflier]

Jessica,

Perhaps what I do might turn into a suggestion to improve things for your guy.

My plumbing and parts still work just fine... .it's the rest of me that is falling apart.  Back, neck... joints... disabilities and injuries from when I was in the Navy.

So... .many times I will have an enjoyable time with sex... but pain issues keep me from being able to "finish"   

Yeah... .when that started happening it was worrisome... .and there was some weird stuff in my r/s as my wife felt rejected and all that. 

Now... it is what it is... .and I will use pleasant memories from one night where I didn't finish to prep me up for the next night... .and usually I do get to finish.

Of course... .that assumes no blowouts and arguments that kill the mood. 

Not sure if you can have that level of conversation with him... .but hopefully that idea can work.


FF

[Grey Kitty]

Hmmm... .sounds like you just need to remember how he 'pronounces' the word 'timeout' 

I know other pwBPD will do things like "break up" then go reconnect with an ex or hook up with somebody that night, and try to come back later claiming that since they were broken up, it isn't cheating, and there wasn't a betrayal that needs to be forgiven, etc.   

It doesn't sound like yours does that kind of thing, so there isn't much you need to "do" about it.

Next time you might consider replying to the breakup text with something like: "This is an excellent time for a timeout between us. Lets reconnect tomorrow or in a couple days."

And now, he's probably embarrassed about breaking up and hoping he doesn't have to admit he did it, so isn't talking about it or acknowledging it.

[Jessica84]

Thank you so much for the replies and support!

FF - hey good to see you!   Thanks for sharing! His "plumbing" issues do bother him, but he is open about it. I support and validate him whenever he talks about it so we don't have a lot of issues there. He needs visual stimulation hence looking at pictures or porn. I get that. Doesn't bother me. It was that he had to check his FB so soon after - as if being with me was some kind of chore that took him away from getting to see those all-important comments to his latest angry political rants. The hot chick pic that distracted him before he could check his messages just added icing to the cake of insult. The going on and on about her didn't help either. What he saw as jealousy I saw as insensitive. I can't understand this for him.

I agree GK - Got a couple of mild texts last night but no call. This morning I got a "hope you have a good day" text. So yeah, he's now awkwardly trying to pretend nothing happened or doesn't know how to undo it. I like your idea about the follow-up 'timeout' text after one of his impulsive breakups. That could work. 

I agree with everyone else. I definitely think he rearranges his memories to fit his current mood. Like we had a miserable vacation this new year's, and a few weeks ago mentioned how much fun we had there ? I recall sleeping on the floor, him being grouchy, and me doing things by myself the whole time, then a long drive back with him sulking. Oh yeah, it was a BLAST! Must be nice to erase reality and replace with a pleasant new memory. I so wish I could do that!

[Grey Kitty]

Hmmm... .maybe you still can acknowledge the "break" and that it is over at the same time?

Text him something like: "I would love to see you again after this break/timeout. Is tomorrow evening OK?"

He's probably embarrassed about dumping you, and you just want to get back together, not rub his nose in it, right?

[Jessica84]

I decided to wait him out. After 4 days he finally called, asking if we could make up... .and... .he apologized.  

I kept it light-hearted, mindful not to "rub his nose" in anything - so thank you for that tip, GreyKitty!  

He was very sincere, thoughtful. He even validated MY feelings - said he didn't see it in the moment, but realized later how "inconsiderate" and "stupid" he was. Spent all week mad at himself - "painful" not talking to me but said he needed to sort out his feelings. I still think this was overblown by a mile, but that's BPD - such an unnecessary and messy disorder. Must admit, it was nice to be validated by him for a change.

[Grey Kitty]

Is waiting him out (instead of frantically chasing after him!) a new move for you?

And is the apology/validation from him also new?

Wouldn't surprise me--he does a better job of managing his feelings on his own (and realizing he screwed up!) if you don't let him engage you in something else, like rejecting your efforts to chase him down.

[JoeBPD81]

Great!  This feels like a victory for all of us! I'm very happy for you guys!

[Jessica84]

GK - Exactly! I debated reaching out to him as you suggested, but couldn't bring myself to. He has to be ready, and I can never tell when that will be, so I wait. That's my norm. Reaching out too soon is like sticking my arm in a bee's nest... .I didn't want to risk it.

Apologizing isn't new for him either, but it's rare that he admits any fault. Most of his apologies are more like "sorry we fought", with no real ownership. This time was different. A true understanding from him. He said to me exactly what I would say to him if I used JADE! How I felt at the time, defending what I said and my actions... .and miraculously, he got it right. After that apologized for his "stupidity". All without my having to say much of anything. Coming from him is simply... .stunning.

I'm sure he'll go nuclear over nothing again... but for now, I'm going to enjoy the magical end to THIS dilemma. Onward and upward... .until the next one.  

Thanks Joe!

[Grey Kitty]

I'm sure he'll go nuclear over nothing again... but for now, I'm going to enjoy the magical end to THIS dilemma. Onward and upward... .until the next one.  

Yes, enjoy it. And also know that you and he are able to get through them much better than you used to.

Chances are he won't stop dysregulating. But you can get it to a point where they aren't that bad for you!