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Author Topic: Jealousy Is The Greatest Form Of Flattery red flag for me.  (Read 694 times)
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« on: March 20, 2017, 07:27:29 PM »

Within the first week of dating my BPDex who I worked with at the time, she accused me of being flirty with a co-worker.  I spent hours justifying my innocence. It was excessive during idealization. From staring at the waitress's butt, to liking a Jennifer Lopez movie over something else. 1

It was flattering and it stroked Mt ego.  The end result is that I mirrored that.  I ended up becoming the jealous type
I can'ttell you how many hours I spent justifying by text messaging defending my self and accusing her of seeing guys.

This I's a major red flag for me. Just wondering if others have similar experiences?
 
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« Reply #1 on: March 20, 2017, 07:42:08 PM »

I have given a lot of thought to the topic of jealousy.

I do know that I had never really been the jealous type in relationships. I dated one guy that went to strip clubs and it didn't bother me one bit because of what he did after he left there. I was secure in the relationship with that guy. I knew how he felt about me without question. If he checked out a waitress or noticed a good looking chick, big deal. I would hope that he wouldn't get upset if he caught me checking out a good looking guy. Being in a relationship doesn't mean that you stop noticing everybody else in the world. There is a big difference between noticing and acting on that. Also, there is the whole issue of being respectful and not ogling others while out with a date.

I know that my ex said he wasn't jealous and didn't have a jealous bone in his body. He took it so far that he wanted me to be with other men and then give him very specific details. It would have been great if he had shown a little bit of jealousy or upset. I would have loved it if he could have wanted me to himself and didn't want to share. I would have loved that.

I feel like the jealousy that I have had was a direct result of me feeling insecure about the relationship. I can also say that there would be long periods of time when I wouldn't think anything of him checking out women or talking to a specific woman. Most of the times that jealousy happened on my part was when alarm bells were going off in my gut. It was the way that he talked about a specific woman and gushed about her in ways that seemed a bit off. It was the way he interacted with a specific woman and talked down to me in her presence. In hindsight, the jealousy that I was feeling was a huge red flag. When I was feeling jealous, it was because something was amiss in the relationship.
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« Reply #2 on: March 20, 2017, 09:11:12 PM »

Nothing like trying to defend yourself against delusional jealousy.  I never had this in the decades with xW, but experienced it over and over again with xGF.  If I had actually dallied with a third of her "list" I would have been a certified stud muffin!

The common theme was the use of elusive proxies who were feeding her the CIA level surveillance data. "my friend xxx, a customer told me... ., someone texted me, xxx saw you at "her" house and recorded it on her security cameras... ., etc."   None of the proxies were ever produced, and the "information" they provided was totally baseless.  But more than once I wondered if I was being watched by an evil empire bent on smearing me... .  Paranoia, anyone?

And then, the next day the accusation was shelved.  If ONE of these were true it would be logical cause for ending the relationship - there were easily a dozen. 

Being stuck in traffic due to a fatal accident that shut down a major road - I get in contact with her and hear "I know you are not in traffic, you are at that hotel with the prostitutes". 

At work, in my extremely high-profile position where I knew pretty much everyone - "My friend tells me you are parking in back of the lot with other women".  Couldn't name the friend, I had not had a woman in my car in years... .  Ahh, jealousy. 

Glad that's done.
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« Reply #3 on: March 20, 2017, 10:28:23 PM »

The woman that brought me to this board, six years ago, a cluster b.  We had dated about 6 weeks... .everything going along pretty smoothly. She had me meet her family, they told me they had never met her boyfriend before and that she really cared for me.

Anyways, she asked me to come pick her up at a bar and give her an excuse to not hang out with a married (apparently cheating) girlfriend of hers that she didn't like.  So I agreed and drove down to her.  I got there, introduced myself and they asked me to sit down and have a beer before I took my ex home.  As I engaged in casual conversation with her friend (what do you do? Where did you go to school?) whom I'd never met, I could feel my ex glaring at me.  My ex turned away from us, and didn't want to talk.   Eventually, her friend got up to go to the bathroom... .and my ex laid into me... ."you want to f her! Why are you talking to her! You want to sleep with her! Why don't you take her home?"

I was dumbfounded.  The bartender was extremely uncomfortable as well.  Her friend came back looking confused, feeling the tension.   I ended up walking out because I was overwhelmed with what was going on and the viciousness of the attack.  My ex called me crying, apologizing... .asking me to come back.

I took her home, telling her how ugly she acted... .she cried.  It was the weirdest thing.

Turns out, she was the one cheating.  She ended the relationship a year later and married the neighbor.  Like ai said before, 3/3 times I've been accused of cheating by exes, they were the ones cheating.

So yeah, my fault; I should have ended it then, but I didn't.  Not flattering at all... .more like insane.  I know now.
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« Reply #4 on: March 20, 2017, 10:48:54 PM »

Oh yeah, and I forgot to mention in order to save face and gain support with her friends and family at the time of breakup, she told everyone I was cheating on her; so that was nice.

gotta love the disordered and the losing proposition trying to love one is.
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« Reply #5 on: March 20, 2017, 11:15:00 PM »

I left that one out - the one of me wanting to do the friend. That one was early on - dinner with another couple, her friends. There was zero sexual energy in the air, just dinner. But somehow the next day she knew I was hot to bang her friend.  And also, not a hint flattering her jealousy, but just deranged and disturbing.  I just couldn't figure out where in the world that was coming from.  But, like when we all discuss the need to validate feelings, I KNEW she believed everything that she was saying, because she felt that. 

Oh - I also forgot the waitress (who had been a friend for 30 years), that was a public scene. And the real estate saleswoman - she was sure I wasn't interested in real estate.  Oh - and the daughter of the guy at our club dinner.  She just KNEW.   And the woman with the too-big butt for her jeans at the boat show.  And a whole series of TV babes who she would serve up to me "do you think she's hot?".   

If it was not so disturbing, it would have made a fascinating case study. But good luck teasing the truth out of the feelings.

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« Reply #6 on: March 21, 2017, 07:04:38 AM »

Very similar. In both the relationships. I had no jealousy whatsoever. Would walk into the bar to meet her, and one of the guys we both knew would be giving her a back massage. The other one she would get back massages from a coworker. Never bothered me. The second I spoke to a female in both relationships it was over. They would accuse me and or tell me not to speak to certain women again. And then all of a sudden I would turn into this jealous person. It really is funny how it works. 

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« Reply #7 on: March 21, 2017, 10:53:17 AM »

from my perspective, the jealousy was probably the most significant obstacle in our relationship. thats not to say it necessarily was, or that it was from her perspective, but when i feel controlled or possessed, it can be triggering. i find it unattractive as well. im very impatient with it and ill be damned if im going to defend myself against unfounded accusations. thats my limit, and i think its unlikely to change. therefore, from my end, it was reason to end the relationship, though i didnt.

like you  Bullet: contents of text or email (click to insert in post) rayban, id be lying if i said there wasnt something comforting about it. my history is that of immature, messy relationships, but not with jealous types. no, generally, i was an insecure partner (not jealous, but insecure about my partners feelings toward me). this relationship had me feeling in a one up position for the first time, and the jealousy was a part of that.

it got very dysfunctional for both of us. somewhere around the half way mark she caught wind of an inappropriate message id sent to another girl. she saw the response, because she was getting into my email. i was super defensive at first, and put it all on her, threatening a break up, in order to deflect from what id done. it took me a few days to just come clean and admit what id done, but i felt much better when i did.

people with BPD are by nature distrusting of others. what i did validated that distrust, and it fed the dysfunctional dynamic for the remainder of the relationship. sure, her intense jealousy was there to begin with (as violating my privacy repeatedly would attest to); my actions did not create a very jealous person, but looking at the big picture did give me a more balanced sense of "how did i get here". it also revealed, and forced me to examine, that perhaps im not as loyal a guy as id like to believe i am.

it came up in the bedroom, sometime after my actions. she wanted me to say things that would induce jealousy. i went along with it. fuel to the fire. messy, messy stuff.

she came along at a time where i didnt have a lot of friends in my life, whereas i had before her. its a value of mine to, at least in some contexts, put friends first; for example, a romantic prospect who wants to enter my life and start cleaning it out and removing my loved ones gets the axe. there obviously wasnt a lot of room for her to do so, but she tried. i wanted to rekindle the friendships id let go by the wayside before i met her, but i held back, chalking it up to "im not ready", as opposed to what i knew the consequences would be. when i tried after the relationship, it was too late. itd been years. theyd moved on and i probably looked weird.

i look at my values and boundaries and see just how blurry i made them. years later however, i can also see a potential to be too rigid about them. ive got a buddy a few months into a relationship. his coworker of the opposite sex posts on his social media a lot. shes annoying about it, even to me. so he tells me his girlfriend started in on him about it and he broke up with her. it sounded a bit like what i did - just dismiss everything as irrational and unfounded rather than read between the lines, listen with empathy, validate, and respond constructively (relationship skills). they patched things up.

everyone can be jealous, even us types not especially predisposed to it. jealousy is an emotion. actions and thoughts following it arent always rational. and we dont always communicate them in the healthiest of ways. i dont believe it should necessarily be so simple as "whoap, jealousy, terminate relationship, run!". sure there are types that wear their jealousy on their sleeves, and im hardly advocating entering into a relationship with that knowledge, but im saying most people are somewhere in the middle.

i dont believe any of that attitude would have made my relationship a better fit for me, and im very aware that i cant solve or fix the very deep seated, long term issues my ex had. but i can also see now that the lesson for me was bigger than "should have stuck to my boundaries". some of the lesson was "stop making things worse", some of the lesson was not to be so dismissive and to consider what is reasonable (even if its being expressed unreasonably at the time) some of the lesson was learning what my limits are, and when they are simply incompatible with another, and some of the lesson was learning what im potentially capable of.

for some, the lessons are different. some of us are prone to jealousy. some of us were jealous partners. in many cases that jealousy was founded, and invalidated by the ex. theres a bigger lesson in that case as well, that is bigger than "trust my gut". if you are prone to jealousy, own it, face it, deal with it, be self aware about picking partners that might fuel it (as we often subconsciously do). learn to healthily communicate when you are feeling jealous. dont be hypervigilant, and play the private detective in a relationship. build trust slowly and over time, the way its meant to be. if your partner breaks your trust, or gives you reasonable suspicion that they have, reevaluate.

this is a great workshop on the subject, and great food for thought: https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=78324.0
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« Reply #8 on: March 21, 2017, 05:05:44 PM »

My BPDx was insanely jealous. It started early and before too long, paying attention to anyone was seen as a threat met by a controlling outburst by her. Over time her accusations and concerns became increasingly irrational, but she was of course projecting because she was cheating on me or planning too.

As someone else says above, when someone insecure is accusing you of cheating, then there's a very good chance she is cheating on you or thinking about it.

Huge red flag.
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« Reply #9 on: March 22, 2017, 05:14:54 AM »

My recent waif/hermit ex was jealous as well.  Two bizarre examples stand out in my mind the most... .other than the usual accusations of me wanting to be with other women.

1st- we were doing our engagement photos.  She somehow saw my previous engagement photos from my prior ex... .I didn't keep them but a mutual friend had them on her FB I guess.  Anyways, I told her I wanted to wear my black dress shirt for our photos... .(my favorite shirt, I love black) well, she flipped out because I wore that color in my previous shoot.  She raged in a public store, threw down her belongings and stormed off.  Eventually, she came back when I was at the register... .but just to make her happy, I wore white.  I hate white.

2nd.  I got up to go to get ready for work.  I went to the bathroom, and then took a shower... .standard morning protocol.  When I opened the door, she was standing in the door way, shaking, crying and angry.  :)umbfounded and confused, I asked her what was wrong?  She said, "I know what you were doing I there! I told you never to do that in my house!"  I said, "what are you talking about? Im so confused!"  She insisted I was in the bathroom masterbating.  I said, "You're crazy! I don't have time for this! I was just showering... .and how the hell would you even know if I was in there masterbating? (I wasn't). She said, "I know because I looked under the door and I saw your feet moving". Wth? I was like, "You looked under the door while I was in the bathroom? You're insane!  And what exactly do masterbating feet look like?"

She had no response.  I ran out of there as fast as I could, telling her she's nuts and she needs help.  She called me a few days later begging me to come home... .and unfortunately, I did after she agreed to get some therapy... .which I suspect she didn't go to.

Turns out, she was the one cheating... .for sure at the end, who knows how if/when during the relationship.   She would pick a fight and I wouldn't hear from her for days... .then she'd ask me to come home.  So who knows.
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« Reply #10 on: March 22, 2017, 08:03:42 AM »

"And what exactly do masterbating feet look like?"

This may be the funniest thing I have ever read posted on here... .   Smiling (click to insert in post)
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« Reply #11 on: March 22, 2017, 08:58:51 AM »

Jealousy was the cancer in my relationship.  My exBPDbf was flat out insane with total fictional jealousy towards me. From thinking I was checking out someone across the room, or when watching a band thinking I wanted to go home with a band member to F-ing my girlfriends husbands, co-workers, their kids, my girlfriends, my exterminator, his own brother, his friends and on and on.

My head was in a frantic spin cycle from all these crazy accusations. He checked my phone... .God forbid if a telemarketer call came in... or a random number that I didn't know. He would take down that number and check it out, one time it was a Window Company, so he accused me months later of having a relationship with someone from there. In restaurants I knew to sit where there was less of a view of the crowd... .because he would constantly be looking behind him asking who I was checking out. He even accused me of having someone over who had a dog because the prints that he said he saw on the carpet didn't match my dogs!

He never trusted with anything. He would go thru my trash, go thru my car and tell me it smelled like men's cologne, or why was the seat adjusted... ."who was sitting here".  He even told me that I smelled of condoms. Nice right?  But yet I still loved this man... .and tried to help and show him in any way I could that I was true and only all about him. He never believed, and still after being broken up for 3-4 months, still thinks I have been with someone else for the past 2 years of our relationship.

I have pulled my hair out trying to figure a way of making him BELIEVE me and see the light!  And I still do want him to believe... .for some reason it hurts me more than I can explain, that the man I loved could never see that I always loved ONLY him.  It's an awful thing to give your whole self to someone, just to have them throw it in your face, and tell you you're a liar.
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« Reply #12 on: March 22, 2017, 10:10:54 AM »

Thats exactly how I feel, Roselee! Hours, days trying to "prove" you dont know someone or you werent where he thinks you were.  And he was utterly convinced in his own delusions.  I have no idea why I allowed him to waste my time like that.  You cant prove something that doesnt exist!  After several years and recycles, Ive come to accept that he will always believe those horrible things, and there is nothing I can do about it.  BUT, that doesnt mean I dont still want him to believe me, that I dont wish for him to have some clarity someday.  I will never get that I know and its crushing that someone you loved, said loved you, said I was "the one they waited for all thier life" could even think those things never mind completely believe them without one second of benefit of the doubt or reason.  And then to say they didnt say those things, or Im just throwing a fit because I "dont like being questioned".  False accusations are not questions. Makes me ache to the core of my being.
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« Reply #13 on: March 22, 2017, 10:25:29 AM »

These comments make all the feelings come back so clearly.  Its not "just" that you were accused of cheating, but that by definition accuses you of lying.  And for someone who is doing neither, it is beyond distressing. 
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« Reply #14 on: March 22, 2017, 10:54:39 AM »

yes...   only a few weeks into relationship she started sending me texts saying I was talking to other women on facebook, because I was on it all the time! What the heck? Jealousy and insecurity from the start pretty much. Then you start to alter your own behaviour to suit her which you shouldn't have to do. Things like that start messing with your head and altering you.
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« Reply #15 on: March 22, 2017, 11:01:57 AM »

Then you start to alter your own behaviour to suit her which you shouldn't have to do. Things like that start messing with your head and altering you.

This... .can't relate enough.
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« Reply #16 on: March 22, 2017, 11:09:38 AM »

Jealousy was the cancer in my relationship. 

I agree. Further up the thread I said that ex wasn't jealous at all. I came across another thread and was thinking about the jealousy stuff and it dawned on me that ex would gladly pawn me off on other men yet would get jealous of the time I spent with my kids or my family. It was bizarre that he could share me with other men yet would get butt hurt and take issue with my family and friends. I had to account to him constantly. If I was at work, he would text or email me constantly. If I was shopping, he would find reasons to text me or call me. It felt very weird to have somebody be so jealous of healthy things yet be so cool with unhealthy things. It was mind blowing and utterly confusing. I stopped talking to my family when he was around. I became pretty isolated because I was so busy trying to be available to him 24/7. It is hard to do that with 4 kids and a job.

He was even showed jealousy and upset when I got a job out of the house. He wanted to know what he was going to do about his activities and child care. It was all about him and anything that I did that did not focus on him seemed to make him jealous or upset.
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« Reply #17 on: March 22, 2017, 03:51:00 PM »

In my experience... .it is a certain type of BPD woman that exhibits extreme jealousy. But I also know very many people (men and women) who are extremely jealous and don't have BPD (as far as I know). Conversely, many BPD women I was involved with (I'm a serial BPD dater) were NOT jealous.

The first two I was involved with were not jealous. I am not jealous myself so it was something new to me. When I encountered extreme jealousy in my next queen type woman, it was very similar to what you and the other posts' are describing. Extreme jealousy towards everyone, even other men. The trend was... .she wanted to isolate me from my support network so she was the only thing I have had. Very unhealthy.

However, I also must add that many of my waif type of girlfriends did not have jealousy whatsoever. One of them we even discussed exes together (the queen one would not even let me mention any exes of women) and she was fine with me seeing my female friends. 

For me, jealousy is a red flag in general. Before I tried it for the first time, it was something new. I've only dated waifs before, this was the first queen type and I decided to try something different. In many ways, though, this experience was much worse than the others. But the point is, now that I have had it, I would never ever allow anyone into my life who is even remotely jealous. I'd rather have an open relationship than deal with anyone's jealous rages again.

The story with my queen type was that she was cheating herself, she wanted me not to even text any women or like any of their pictures on Facebook, but she herself wanted to have as many men as she wanted. Extreme jealousy is classic mirroring in my experience.

But the only thing I'd like to emphasize is... .many of mine were not in the least jealous and still had BPD.
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« Reply #18 on: March 22, 2017, 07:33:04 PM »

Extreme jealousy is classic mirroring in my experience.

But the only thing I'd like to emphasize is... .many of mine were not in the least jealous and still had BPD.

Mirroring?  Or projection? 

And the next statement - so true. Many different flavors of ice-cream!  I had experience also with both ends of this spectrum.  This thread really rings some bells in my head.

Thanks
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« Reply #19 on: March 22, 2017, 07:51:00 PM »

Mirroring?  Or projection? 

And the next statement - so true. Many different flavors of ice-cream!  I had experience also with both ends of this spectrum.  This thread really rings some bells in my head.

Thanks

Yes, thank you, I meant projection.
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« Reply #20 on: March 22, 2017, 09:06:44 PM »

"And what exactly do masterbating feet look like?"

This may be the funniest thing I have ever read posted on here... .   Smiling (click to insert in post)

Yeah, I remember phrasing that question like that because of the ridiculousness of the situation. Haha.

It's crazy how we can look back these relationships now and laugh because of how bizarre certian behaviors were, but we were so enmeshed that we couldn't see it at the time.  My friends/family would tell me to run... .but I couldn't let go.  I personally give good advice to my family and friends that are in toxic and abusive relationships... .but couldn't connect that knowledge to my own.

My biggest regret, of all these experiences is that I didn't end them immediately once the abusive behavior started... .always within two months.  I regret that so much... .that I let myself be treated the way I was for years following.  It won't happen again.  I've finally learned.

Also, footnote. I'm really grateful for this board.  I don't speak much about this stuff in real life, I tend to keep it to myself... .never been to a professional to talk; to proud I guess.   Glad to have this place to vent, share thoughts, and learn.

Thanks.
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