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How to communicate after a contentious divorce... Following a contentious divorce and custody battle, there are often high emotion and tensions between the parents. Research shows that constant and chronic conflict between the parents negatively impacts the children. The children sense their parents anxiety in their voice, their body language and their parents behavior. Here are some suggestions from Dean Stacer on how to avoid conflict.
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Author Topic: The 'Tone'...  (Read 420 times)
GlitterBug
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« on: March 21, 2017, 10:24:28 AM »

So it's been 3yrs now NC with my pwBPD... .A lot has happened since then, but recent life events for me have caused the same questions to start whirling around again.

I'm curious to know if anyone else experienced the issue of 'tone' with their pwBPD.

In almost every single situation that resulted in conflict between us, it would usually start with her behaving unreasonably or placing unrealistic demands in my direction.

When I tried to calmly explain why I was unhappy or why I couldn't do something the way she wanted it done (sticking to facts and logic to support my case), she would 9 times out of 10 say something like ':)on't raise your tone to me' or 'don't speak to me in that tone'.   I was so aware of my 'tone' when raising any issue or discussing anything that could potentially cause conflict that I was 110% certain at the time that I wasn't being rude or patronising, I was just remaining calm but it didn't seem to make a difference.

If I persisted with trying to air my point, It would then progress to 'stop raising your voice' or 'don't scream in my face' - I did neither of these until our final argument after 10yrs of putting up with it. I lost my cool with her on the final time and have been painted blacker than black ever since.

Has anyone else found it is nearly impossible to have a calm chat with a pwBPD about something they don't want to acknowledge without being accused of screaming, shouting, being spiteful, being a bully ect ect?
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marti644
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« Reply #1 on: March 21, 2017, 10:51:51 AM »

Glitterbug,

You're spot on! My BPD-ex constantly said "don't raise your voice". Funny thing was, she was the only one yelling. They are master projectors. Their accusations against you are their actions almost all the time.
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GlitterBug
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« Reply #2 on: March 21, 2017, 11:06:36 AM »

Glitterbug,

You're spot on! My BPD-ex constantly said "don't raise your voice". Funny thing was, she was the only one yelling. They are master projectors. Their accusations against you are their actions almost all the time.

Hi Marti,

Well it's a relief to know that I'm not alone in my thinking!

So often I would find myself in this situation and it became more and more frustrating as the years went on.

I'm not proud of it but eventually, after many years of justifying myself with 'I'm not shouting, I'm just explaining myself' or 'I didn't raise my tone, I'm just explaining why I feel this way' and still being accused, I did lose my cool with her in pretty spectacular style.

I was doing the usual 'stick the the facts, keep it logical, keep it calm' but it wasn't working and she was in my face telling to shut up, no one cares what I had to say, you're pathetic, I couldn't care less about your opinion or what you want to say, f**k off... .The list goes on and on.

She just kept talking over me so I couldn't even get a sentence out as she could see it was making me cross.

And eventually I did lose my temper and told her she was beyond rude, she had disrespected me in my own home where I had made her welcome and I was sick of being told I was aggressive when I went out of my to be anything but.

She left in floods of tears.

In the end I suppose I gave her what she wanted and we haven't spoken since... .That was 3yrs ago.
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marti644
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« Reply #3 on: March 21, 2017, 11:14:00 AM »

Glitterbug,

That's pretty much the end of my BPD relationship too. Finally lost my cool in the last argument and told her that she was beyond childish, couldn't accept her own actions, and was "full of s**t" (not proud of the last one). In the end though this is why she split me black, I had finally called her on her actions and she knew the game was up.

Discarded me the next day and aside from a recycle attempt two weeks later to a pre-BPD knowledgeable Marti, was split black, hopefully permanently. When a mutual friend who she went to as an ally told her that she needed to calm down, she split him black too.

When someone with BPD figures out that they can't use you anymore they usually run, because you can no longer be part of their rotation and you can't be recycled easily. Because they almost always have fresh replacements in the wings (prepared for just such a moment), they are usually gone forever.

 I take it as a point of pride now that I was split black so hard. It means my intuitions were correct and I was creating strong boundaries that she knew she couldn't break. Good practice for the next relationship once I heal properly.
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In a bad way
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« Reply #4 on: March 21, 2017, 11:16:44 AM »

All the time!
She would be screaming and shouting and swearing at me and accusing me of doing it, I would say "I'm not, I'm calm you're the one screaming shouting and swearing". She would tell me to f off and stop swearing whilst calling me every name under the sun.
It was beyond logic how she could be doing this.
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« Reply #5 on: March 21, 2017, 11:23:40 AM »

people with BPD tend to read a great deal into tone and body language, sometimes to an extreme degree that may not be founded. in the scenario you describe, its a defensive position for her, and that heightens emotions.

If I persisted with trying to air my point,

a lot of us characterize ourselves as arguing with facts and logic and our partners as arguing with irrational emotion. its an over simplification.

persisting with trying to air your point is playing a role in whats called a circular argument. i did it myself, too many times to count.

from the ten beliefs that can keep us stuck:

7) Belief that if you say it louder you will be heard

We often feel that if we explain our point better, put it in writing, say it louder, or find the right words ... .we will be heard. People with BPD hear and read just fine. Everything that we have said has been physically heard. The issue is more about listening and engaging. When the relationship breaks down and emotions are flared, the ability to listen and engage diminishes greatly on all sides. And if we try to compensate by being more insistent it often just drives the interaction further into unhealthy territory. We may be seen as aggressive. We may be seen as weak and clingy. We may be seen as having poor boundaries and inviting selfish treatment. We may be offering ourselves up for punishment. It may be denial, it may be the inability to get past what they feel and want to say, or it may even be payback. This is one of the most difficult aspects of breaking up - there is no closure.


it really pays to learn the communication techniques here. most of us got stuck in big time JADE (justify, argue, defend, explain) territory in our relationships. it tends to feed circular arguments.

weve got a great workshop on circular arguments here: https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=118892.0
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Lucky Jim
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« Reply #6 on: March 21, 2017, 12:19:35 PM »

Hey GlitterBug, The stress can be enormous in a BPD r/s and it's normal to lose one's cool from time to time, so give yourself a break.  We've all done it!  My BPDxW would goad and bully me until she succeeded in evoking an angry response, after which she could point to my anger as the problem.  Time to let go of the guilt?  You didn't do anything wrong and I doubt anything you could have done differently would have made a difference, so maybe you can chalk it up to a learning experience?

LuckyJim
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« Reply #7 on: March 21, 2017, 01:02:36 PM »

I was called nasty and abusive after losing my cool recently.  Ok I said something maybe I shouldn't had but in all fairness it was the truth and obviously something that hit a nerve with him.  I could never have a discussion about my feelings as he would always get defensive and accuse me of having a distorted perception.  The conversation/friendship ended with him saying if he hears from me again he'll call the police and report me for harassment!  
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bus boy
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« Reply #8 on: March 21, 2017, 03:19:59 PM »

HI Glitterbug, I know your story well, know the tone well and if I used what Xw thought was tone, I was met with wrath. I would pull my hair out trying to explain logic to a very illogical person. What would be a normal disagreement between 2 normal people was a belittling sarcastic event with Xw.
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Pretty Woman
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« Reply #9 on: March 21, 2017, 04:02:11 PM »

O.M.G

Yes. She was always making comments that she was not pleased with my tone... .usually occurring in tandem with her calling me every name in the book! This usually occurred when she was raging at me and I was trying to play peacekeeper and talk her off a ledge. All I was trying to do was rationalize. She would say I was screaming at her and I wasn't. This word really triggered me in a way I never expected it when I just read it. How weird.

I will never forget how often she used that term.

I know BPD's perceive even the smallest of slights or a change in body language, facial expression as rejection. I agree with other posters here that this resulted in major projection. I could be sitting there with duck tape on my mouth and she'd still be telling me she was displeased with my tone.

God, I sure don't miss that. It drove me seriously crazy.
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In a bad way
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« Reply #10 on: March 21, 2017, 04:50:25 PM »

It's weird and crazy but also scary that someone can be like this.
I used to think how can you accuse me of what  you are doing when it must be obvious.
But it's also a shame that someones brain can work that way, or do they know that they are doing it?
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g2outfitter
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« Reply #11 on: March 29, 2017, 12:44:40 PM »

Man, I heard the word "tone" probably more than any other word during my exBPD relationship.  Apparently, the reason I couldn't clearly resolve a problem with her was because of the "tone" in my message, not the message itself.

Another one... .I could be 10 feet away from her in a discussion and if was using hand gestures she would always say - "get your finger out of my face, why are you being so aggressive!"  I would be nowhere near her face nor pointing my finger.

This would always happen as soon as she realized her argument had no basis.  A diversion tactic.
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Grey Kitty
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« Reply #12 on: March 29, 2017, 01:04:16 PM »

In almost every single situation that resulted in conflict between us, it would usually start with her behaving unreasonably or placing unrealistic demands in my direction.

When I tried to calmly explain why I was unhappy or why I couldn't do something the way she wanted it done (sticking to facts and logic to support my case), she would 9 times out of 10 say something like ':)on't raise your tone to me' or 'don't speak to me in that tone'.

That is a perfect example of what I called "doubling down on the invalidation"

Step 1: Do something unreasonable (aka invalidating to you!)
Step 2: Upon being questioned or challenged, make a new, invalidating statement targeted at your question, in hopes that you won't even remember the original problem.
Step 3: Repeat as needed until target wants to scream at you... .
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GlitterBug
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« Reply #13 on: April 02, 2017, 03:25:30 PM »

That is a perfect example of what I called "doubling down on the invalidation"

Step 1: Do something unreasonable (aka invalidating to you!)
Step 2: Upon being questioned or challenged, make a new, invalidating statement targeted at your question, in hopes that you won't even remember the original problem.
Step 3: Repeat as needed until target wants to scream at you... .

Wow Yes! This is exactly how it felt at the time.
I'm standing there on so many of these occasions knowing full well she wants to draw me into an argument to satisfy whatever internal rage she was wrestling with.

A few times I was so flawed by how unreasonable and the things she said, that I just up'd and left... .Turns out this was just another thing for her to rage at me about - When I would leave for a few hours space, I'd be called 'childish' or a 'coward' or 'pathetic'.
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Tlw300300

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« Reply #14 on: April 02, 2017, 03:39:32 PM »

The calmer I remained the more heightened she becomes. After hours of a circular fight , I would occasionally explode then I become the angry one who can't discuss anything.
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In a bad way
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« Reply #15 on: April 02, 2017, 05:02:57 PM »

The calmer I remained the more heightened she becomes. After hours of a circular fight , I would occasionally explode then I become the angry one who can't discuss anything.

Yep that's how it was for me, after hours or days of abuse over nothing I would eventually retaliate and she would accuse me of being an angry scary man.
She couldn't see that she had caused it and turned it all around saying I need help because she has tried to help me but can't.
Really makes you want to bang your head against a wall with pure frustration and disbelief.
How can someone be so irrational.
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Lucky Jim
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« Reply #16 on: April 03, 2017, 10:33:16 AM »

Excerpt
Yep that's how it was for me, after hours or days of abuse over nothing I would eventually retaliate and she would accuse me of being an angry scary man.

Bullet: comment directed to __ (click to insert in post) In a bad way: Right, that's the cycle in a BPD r/s.  The pwBPD goads and prods the Non in order to elicit an angry reaction, at which point the roles are reversed.  The Non become the persecutor, the pwBPD the victim.  Then the pwBPD can point at the Non and say, "See, you're the problem!"

LJ
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jambley
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« Reply #17 on: April 03, 2017, 11:16:54 AM »

Lucky Jim your thoughts/posts are great, you really know what you're talking about... .respect to you  Smiling (click to insert in post)
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Lucky Jim
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« Reply #18 on: April 03, 2017, 02:57:18 PM »

Thanks, Jamesss.  I appreciate it!  Glad to know you find my thoughts/posts useful.  LJ
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    A life spent making mistakes is not only more honorable, but more useful than a life spent doing nothing.
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In a bad way
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« Reply #19 on: April 03, 2017, 05:12:17 PM »

Bullet: comment directed to __ (click to insert in post) In a bad way: Right, that's the cycle in a BPD r/s.  The pwBPD goads and prods the Non in order to elicit an angry reaction, at which point the roles are reversed.  The Non become the persecutor, the pwBPD the victim.  Then the pwBPD can point at the Non and say, "See, you're the problem!"

LJ

Exactly, but I don't get why someone (especially who you are supposed to love and loves you) would do that.
Mine never remembered anything after a sleep so she doesn't know, she only has my word for it.
She told me to record her but she would never listen to them.
I really think she has DID as well, there are two of her and neither remembers the other one.
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Lucky Jim
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« Reply #20 on: April 04, 2017, 09:35:42 AM »

Excerpt
Exactly, but I don't get why someone (especially who you are supposed to love and loves you) would do that.

That's a great question, In a bad way, and one that I've thought hard about.  There's no easy answer, though, because it's extremely difficult to ascribe motives for a pwBPD's behavior.  I doubt a pwBPD could articulate it.  Suffice to say, they hurt the ones who love them, which is part of the paradox of BPD.   

LJ
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    A life spent making mistakes is not only more honorable, but more useful than a life spent doing nothing.
George Bernard Shaw
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