BPD wife lasted 3 weeks. Best course of action?

[Husband321]

Been seeing a woman for a year.  She is 31.  I am 40.

I was her soulmate etc.   helped her through many things including a custody battle.  She kept pushing for engagement.  Marriage.  Living together. 

In the past at times she would go cold.  Go back to her ex (for the kids) which would last 2 days. 

I looked past this.  She is attractive.  Loving.  Wealthy.  And I got sucked in.

We married 3 weeks ago.  I sensed a change.  She just became rude.  Distant.  Nagging.  Condescending etc.

So we bickered for a couple of day.  Sunday night we made up and were looking for a new home together.  A month earlier she got a tatto "property of" with my name on her ass.

I got to work Monday and she is texting me she is planting a garden at our house etc.   I get home and she is gone.  Took all her stuff.  Put it in a storage garage.  Got a hotel

I try to reason with her and she just says "I don't want to be married".  Next day she goes to hair salon for 6 hours,shopping for clothes etc.  like nothing happened

Now she is wanting to divorce, get her own place, but be my gf.  My fwb.  Just have sex. And just called today and told me something like "I want to see you but if there are nights I can't don't get mad.  I need to start my own life.  But I am also addicted to you so let's ween ourselves off each other.  This week she is apparently looking for. A new home. 

Should I see her just for sex and think she might change her mind?  Ignore her?  Best course of action?

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[Mutt]

Hi Husband321,



I'd like to welcome you to bpdfamily, I'm sorry that you're going through this. I can see how that would feel like an emotional roller coaster when your pwBPD wants to get married then does a 180. That's tough.

I looked past this.  She is attractive.  Loving.  Wealthy.  And I got sucked in.

A r/s with a pwBPD is very intense at the very beginning and it can't move fast enough, many of us ignored the red flags at the onset of the r/s, including myself.

Should I see her just for sex and think she might change her mind?  Ignore her?  Best course of action?

You're married, she's entitled to half of what you have right, but she wants to be fwb? We can't tell you what to do, we can support you in your decision, what do you want to do?

[abraxus]

My take on this?

The biggest clue is the tattoo she got. Women's actions speak volumes, and she clearly stated that she wanted to be your property, and chances are that she meant that in the most literal way. My guess is that either before or after your marriage you got a bit complacent, which caused her to question your commitment.

Reasoning with her will do nothing. Clearly she still wants you, but I'll bet that this is a test, either conscious or otherwise. I'll go further and say that she probably wants something even more than being fwb, and weaning yourselves off each other.

If I were a gambling man I'd bet that deep down (or possibly more overtly), she wants you to say "no", that fwb is not acceptable to you. She wants you to tell her that she's "your property" and no-one else's.

To me this looks like a cry for reassurance; reassurance that she belongs to you, and that you wont settle for less. So, if you concede to what she's asking, she'll take it as you not wanting the same level of commitment that she does.

[Husband321]

My take on this?

The biggest clue is the tattoo she got. Women's actions speak volumes, and she clearly stated that she wanted to be your property, and chances are that she meant that in the most literal way. My guess is that either before or after your marriage you got a bit complacent, which caused her to question your commitment.

Reasoning with her will do nothing. Clearly she still wants you, but I'll bet that this is a test, either conscious or otherwise. I'll go further and say that she probably wants something even more than being fwb, and weaning yourselves off each other.

If I were a gambling man I'd bet that deep down (or possibly more overtly), she wants you to say "no", that fwb is not acceptable to you. She wants you to tell her that she's "your property" and no-one else's.

To me this looks like a cry for reassurance; reassurance that she belongs to you, and that you wont settle for less. So, if you concede to what she's asking, she'll take it as you not wanting the same level of commitment that she does.

Interesting.

As soon as I kind of agreed to fwb she was kind of like "so then what would be ? That's it?"

But for the past 3 days me telling her I love her.  Wanted to be with her forever.  Explaining.  Got me nowhere.   She just became more entrenched in her position of "I need my own space". Asking her to come back etc.

It's like she won't "want me" until I am gone.   Then she will do anything to be with me.  When I am always trying to reason , it's just "no.  It's over.  Goodbye"

I also did bring up the tattoo and she said as soon as we are divorced she is having t removed

[abraxus]

I know this sounds counter intuitive, but stop telling her that you love her. She knows that, it's not what she wants, she wants you to own her.

Reasoning and explaining will get you nowhere, it simply doesn't work. You can use reason and logic as much as you like, and it won't make any difference. Equally though, you could talk to her in Chinese, and use the right body language and take the right actions, and she'll be all over you.

Of course she gets more entrenched, because all you're doing is telling her what your feelings are, without doing anything about them. In other words, you're telling her what you feel, and yet asking her to take the action. You're basically opening yourself and giving her all the power, and the tools to use it.

Tell her that if she needs her own space then she can have it, but that it means she has it entirely. Tell her that doesn't work for you, that you want her "all or nothing", and that she's either yours or not, and you flat out don't want to share her, and won't do it.

I know, it seems risky, as it always seems easier to try to hold onto a piece, rather than risk losing all. However, the minute you go down that road, you quickly find that piece gets smaller and smaller.

[Husband321]

I know this sounds counter intuitive, but stop telling her that you love her. She knows that, it's not what she wants, she wants you to own her.

Reasoning and explaining will get you nowhere, it simply doesn't work. You can use reason and logic as much as you like, and it won't make any difference. Equally though, you could talk to her in Chinese, and use the right body language and take the right actions, and she'll be all over you.

Of course she gets more entrenched, because all you're doing is telling her what your feelings are, without doing anything about them. In other words, you're telling her what you feel, and yet asking her to take the action. You're basically opening yourself and giving her all the power, and the tools to use it.

Tell her that if she needs her own space then she can have it, but that it means she has it entirely. Tell her that doesn't work for you, that you want her "all or nothing", and that she's either yours or not, and you flat out don't want to share her, and won't do it.

I know, it seems risky, as it always seems easier to try to hold onto a piece, rather than risk losing all. However, the minute you go down that road, you quickly find that piece gets smaller and smaller.

So more or less an all or nothing ultimatum? If you get your own place it's over?  I want you to be all
Mine and nothing else?

[abraxus]

I wouldn't express it as an ultimatum, as an all out confrontational approach usually results in irrational defensiveness. Besides, ultimatums are weak, and you need to present strength.

Instead I'd try to approach it in a more understanding way, that acknowledges her feelings, and gives a sense that you're on the same team.

May be something like: ":)o you know what, when you got that tattoo, it really pleased me, because it summed up just the way I feel about you. You're mine and you belong to me. That's how I felt then, and that's how I feel now. I get that you may feel differently now, and I respect that, but I don't. It would therefore be weak and dishonest of me to pretend that I want anything less than all of you, so I simply can't do it".

You can probably word it better than that, but you get the drift.

Essentially, it's not giving her an ultimatum, which she can fight, it's a giving her a choice. You're not telling her what to do, you're telling her what you want from your life, and she can either choose to be onboard or not.

[Husband321]

I wouldn't express it as an ultimatum, as an all out confrontational approach usually results in irrational defensiveness. Besides, ultimatums are weak, and you need to present strength.

Instead I'd try to approach it in a more understanding way, that acknowledges her feelings, and gives a sense that you're on the same team.

May be something like: ":)o you know what, when you got that tattoo, it really pleased me, because it summed up just the way I feel about you. You're mine and you belong to me. That's how I felt then, and that's how I feel now. I get that you may feel differently now, and I respect that, but I don't. It would therefore be weak and dishonest of me to pretend that I want anything less than all of you, so I simply can't do it".

You can probably word it better than that, but you get the drift.

Essentially, it's not giving her an ultimatum, which she can fight, it's a giving her a choice. You're not telling her what to do, you're telling her what you want from your life, and she can either choose to be onboard or not.

Well She came over last night.   I basically told her the above, and she said "ok I understand.  I am sad we won't see each other again"

She ended up spending the night and we were intimate.

This morning I told her I want her to stay the weekend.  She was still saying she needs to find a house.  It won't work etc.   until I was ready to go to work, then she said she will stay the weekend, but is making no promises as to if we will be together. 

Does this seem like good progress?  Next move?

Also her day yesterday again consisted of shopping and going to the spa.  Seems odd for someone living out of a hotel?

When I talked about the tattoo she said she is messed up.  She wants to be submissive, and that is her dream, but also some things trigger her and she needs to control.

[abraxus]

It seems very good progress, as at least you weren't arguing, and she stayed the weekend.

Don't be taken in by her calmly accepting what you said. She's agreeing with you in order to see how you'll act. Unfortunately you slipped a bit by asking her to stay, as you'd started to get the power, but then handed it back to her. No big deal though.

For now, don't push her about being together. Stand your ground by appearing to accept that she wants to split and you want all or nothing, but don't discuss it unless she brings it up.

I assumed from the tattoo that she wanted to be submissive, but for that to work it means you have to be dominant. That doesn't mean you have to be bossy and controlling, just that you're firm and assertive, in a calm and controlled way.

It's very natural that at times she'll feel she needs control. To be submissive can mean feeling very vulnerable at times. At those times her fears of abandonment will kick in more strongly. So, it's not her fighting you, it's just protecting herself. However, she will also try to test your dominance by trying to take control, as it's your strength that makes her feel safe. You'll have to tread carefully, as you need to stand firm, but reassure her that you're there for her.

That's for later though. Everyone has a different idea of what being submissive means to them, so I would suggest when things are calm, and she's opening up to you, ask her what it means to her to be submissive. Ask her what she imagines such a dynamic would look like.

At that point you have to decide if it's something you want and are able to do. You need to be certain, as it's clearly something she needs, and you need to be sure you can give it to her, as sometimes those needs can be extreme. You need to understand fully, so that you can take charge in the way that she wants, without being overbearing or abusive.

Bear in mind, she will fight you along the way. Not to be mean, but to test you, to see if you can handle her and remain calmly in control. You've taken a good first step, by standing your ground and saying that fwb doesn't work for you, and that you want all of her or nothing. She may try to challenge or resist that, but ignore what she says, as deep down she'll respect you for that, as it shows you're a man who knows what he wants and won't settle for anything else.

Respect is key in such a dynamic. She needs to feel she can look up to you for guidance, whilst feeling safe and cared for in doing so. She wants you tell her what to do, but in a measured way, so never get angry or raise your voice, always appear calm and 100% in control of your emotions. It's mental and emotional strength that conveys dominance, not physical.

I would also suggest that if you are intimate with her again, then take the opportunity to be a bit more dominant in bed. Take it slow at first and see how she responds. Take the lead, and be a little less gentle, without being rough, and be guided by her responses. Maybe start with words, and tell her how she's yours and that you own her, and she how she reacts. My advice would be not to ask her what she wants, as that will make her feel like the one in control, which is the opposite of what she wants. However, don't force anything either, just take things slowly and move forwards if she responds positively, and back off if she seems not to. However, don't be apologetic for anything, remain calm an in control, and go with the flow, but go slow and be guided by her reactions.

It seems that she cares for you, and wants to be with you, and has been honest enough with you to open up to you about her needs. Perhaps her submissive desires are her reason for suggesting fwb, as she wants you as well as having these needs met, and so believes that she has to get them met elsewhere. It may have been hard for her to admit that to you, so show that you appreciate her openness, and let her know that perhaps those needs could be met within your relationship.

Please note, that all of this pretty generic, as I don't know you or your wife, and can only go on what you've told me. You know her better and how she'll respond. When you're discussing things with her, never try to push things when she's being angry or negative, just remain calm, and stand firm in your position. Only try to make progress and move forwards when she's being friendly and responsive. Don't ask anything of her, just tell her what you want, and allow her to choose to give it to you. Mostly though just be sure of yourself and what you what, but in a firm, nice guy kind of way, and not in a bossy and demanding way.

[Husband321]

I would say what has happened since we married is her perhaps feeling "smothered" and more agitated.   The mistake I made was to argue this and kee showing her how she is changing, is not nice etc.

The advice you gave seems to have worked.  She just texted that she is so happy to stay the weekend with me. 

I need to adopt this mindset more, where it is me in control instead of asking.  That seems to work.  When I said. "I want you to stay" she agreed.  When I said "can you stay?" It was a no. 

She has went through great lengths to be with me in the past.  Which involved a lot of driving.  Sacrifice.  Time.  Etc.  I think just being more firm yet controlled is the best idea.  As when we got into shouting matches I feel it deeply wounds her.

[abraxus]

I'm pleased to hear that things seem to moving in the right direction for you.

It's hard not to come across as smothering when someone appears angry and upset, and you care about them, but of course that just makes things worse. Often they just need to be left alone to deal with their own feelings, and you need to be able to not take it personally and not let it affect your emotions.

The best advice I can give is that when you're having a good moment, and are talking about things, tell her that when she feels angry or agitated, you'll leave her be. Tell her that you'll be there if she needs you, but you're happy to leave her to herself and come to you when she feels better. The key is to let her know that you're not going to abandon her when she's down, but won't smother her either, but that you're not psychic and she needs to tell you what she needs.

You also have to be rock solid with your emotions. You know you have feelings, she knows you have feelings, but try not to show them, and never discuss them. She wants you to be the man and manage her feelings, and doesn't want to feel responsible for yours. Always try to appear happy, calm and in control, no matter what she throws at you, as she's more likely to get angry and upset if you show or express them.

Deep down she wants to please you and make you happy, and when you're unhappy she'll feel bad about that. She can't process that properly, and so will likely get angry, but often that anger is with herself, which is why the shouting matches wound her. She's may seem angry at you, but she's also upset at hurting you. In many ways she wants to make you happy, she just finds it easier and less stressful when you tell her how, instead of her having to try and figure it out.

Never tell her that she's changing or not being nice, as she wont understand that, and it shows that you're allowing her to affect your emotions. If she seems to change then take it on board and see if there's anything you've done. People rarely act in a vacuum, and so their behaviour is often a reaction to external stimuli, either you or something else, so try to take note and adjust, as you've already seen how small positive changes can bring about positive results.

That's not to say you give her a free pass, quite the opposite. If she clearly does something wrong or disrespectful, then calmly but firmly point it out. Don't be angry, just say that you're not pleased with what she's done. She has more or less told you that she needs boundaries, and wants you to set them, and you can see that when you do she responds to them and feels happy. Basically she's just a bit lost, confused and indecisive, and so when you take the lead and guide her she feels more comfortable, relaxed and safe. Choices mean decisions for her, which she struggles with, and so when you say what you want, instead of asking her to decide, it's so much easier.

[Husband321]

One other issue that is hard for me to tackle is her defensiveness. 

2 example.  Everything seems fine.  She asks me where a certain document is.   I get it for her.  10 minutes later I walk by and ask "hey babe are yoj done with this" as I was headed towards the office.  She snaps. "I was going to put it back ok?"


Later I suggest we sell something on let go.  Her reply "well obviously I had a lot more important things going on"

Sometimes this type of defensiveness is constant.  When she is in a good mood all is wonderful. 

I point out how she is talking to me, then it just escalates.  That was actually the conversation that led her to running away.  "See.  Everyday you have a problem with me ". However I feel she goes out of her way to push and push and test, which of course leads to a problem

[abraxus]

Ok, well I'll tell you what I think, and how I'd handle it, and you can see what you think.

It's not so much defensiveness, but over sensitivity. So, try to let go of minor things. When you ask her if she's done with the documents, see she'll it as you being fussy and picky, or implying that she can't do things herself, when you're just trying to be organised and efficient. In some ways, asking if she done with it, will be read by her as "aren't you done with that yet", and so she'll get defensive.

Basically, if you say something that could potentially be taken in either a positive or negative light, then assume she'll interpret it as the latter. In the scheme of things such things like putting the document away aren't important, so just let it go.

Think about it this way,if you're in an irritable mood, and someone asks you if you're done with something, then at least in some ways it will get to you. Just remember that it will get to her more deeply and more often. Best thing to do is try and be chilled out and relaxed about things. Forget het BPD, and just think of her as a woman. She's going to feel much happier and more relaxed around someone who's calm and easy going about seemingly little things.

As for selling stuff, well it's much the same as before. Don't suggest, just tell her you're going to sell some stuff. Suggesting sounds passive and tentative, and implies that you're seeking her permission or approval. Once again, take control, but without being a control freak.

Never point out how she's talking to you, as it will always escalate. Either she does it to pick a fight, in which case you lose by taking the bait, or she doesn't realise it, in which case she'll feel ashamed and embarrassed and get defensive when you point it out. Act as though you haven't noticed, and that it doesn't bother you. If she realises that she was doing it, she may well apologise afterwards. At that point you can thank her for her apology, and either say that it was no big deal and you didn't really notice, or that perhaps instead she could talk to you if somethings bothering her and she wants to.

The former tells her that you're not shaken by her moods, and she'll appreciate your strength and patience. The latter acknowledges that it's her problem and her pain, and that you understand and you wont push her on that unless she chooses to share it with you and discuss it, and shows her that you'll be there for her if and when she needs you to be.

Either way, neither put any pressure on her or give her anything to fight against. The trick is to always try and give her a positive out, and not make her feel trapped or cornered, as that's what will cause her to lash out, even if it isn't personal and only in what she sees as defense. As strong as she may seem at times, try to remember that often it's just a front, and that in many ways she's very insecure underneath it all. For someone like that, when those insecurities are brought to the fore, attack appears to be the best form of defense.

What I've found is that a good strategy is to try and create a team dynamic, almost a two of you against the world kind of thing, as conflict becomes much harder when you can get her seeing you both on the same side of the fence, instead of on opposites. Always remember though, that her nature is submissive, and so there's no harm in pointing out that teams work best with one captain, and that you're it. So, try to show that you're understanding of her frustrations, as that's what they are, and be a friend to her. It would probably sound patronising in any other context, but don't be an equal friend, be a little paternalistic, as she's already expressed that she wants you to take the lead, and so guide her a little. I'd avoid trying to directly offer advice, as either it will be seen as patronising, or you'll be the fall guy if it doesn't work out. Instead listen, and be supportive, and allow her to take responsibility for her choices.

[Husband321]

I guess what scares me is her impulsiveness

I mentioned the tattoo, marriage, she put her life insurance in my name, sold her place to move in with me, etc.

Then in a split second, after a minor disagreement as mentioned, she will change her mailing address, change her health insurance, get a storage unit, and move out.  She did these types of things before, and then would have to change everything back again. Which was a hassle.

She also at times will do anything for control. Even this entire week she knows she has the control.  I think the best advice given was just to lay down where I am at without and ultimatum and she will have to accept the consequences if she ultimately moves out.

I also struggle with the balancing act of not being controlling and giving her her freedom, yet also having boundaries.

Example.

She is always home waiting for me when I am home.  It was one of the days we had an argument.

So at 7 pm I text asking where she is.  She is at the hair salon.  So I just ask "why didn't you text me or tell me?"

She turns it into "why didn't you text me?" Which leads to me pointing out she had all day to tell me she had a late appointment and she never did this before.  So nice to just text. Then it escalates.

I sense she wants guidance and to be controlled yet also wants to be a free spirit.

[Husband321]

I also wonder after an entire year of professing great love.  Devotion etc. is she really about to just get her own place, move out, divorce and is fully ready to say goodbye?  Is it a test for me?  Is her love fickle?   She turns off that quickly?

[abraxus]

Impulsiveness is something you'll have to learn to live with. It's a knee jerk reaction on her part, that she can't help. The good news, and something you can reassure yourself with, is that she usually reverses it. It's a basic fight or flight response, that she can't help. It's a pain, but it is what it is, and hopefully that will calm down over time, as she feels more settled and secure.

Don't mention anything. Don't talk about the tattoo, or anything else she's done. Your situation is purely one of respect, attraction and desire, and you can't use reason or logic for that. You can't alter her mind, feelings or thoughts with words, only actions, as you've seen when you took a stand, The problem with words is that it's about timing, and her mood, and if you get that wrong she'll just resist and reverse her position.

Leave ALL initiation of ANY discussion of the relationship to her. Just stay firm in what you want and allow her to follow.

As for the texts, by all means ask where she is when she's not where you expect her to be, but don't say why didn't you tell me. Doing that makes you sound needy, and you just open the door for a back and forth. She wants a combination of things, she wants to feel your control, but doesn't want to feel controlled, if that makes sense? She wants to know you can take charge, but not imprison her. She may well want you to have more control, but she wont hand that over to you overnight. You have to let her hand it over, piece by piece, by showing you know how to use it, for the benefit of both of you. So just take things a step at a time, and the first step is showing that you're fully in control of yourself, your emotions, your needs and your wants and, as she starts to see that in you, then she'll become more comfortable in handing it over. She wants to submit to you, but needs to know you can handle her submission without getting bothered by the little things.

No, her love isn't fickle, she's just cautious and confused, and so yes, in some ways it is a test. She needs stability and certainty, and so will create chaos and confusion, to see if you can remain stable throughout, and provide that stability she needs.

I can't predict what she's thinking, but you said things were moving positively. So, forget what she may have said or done in the past, and just focus on the now. Be your own man, and stand your ground and let her follow. Set your own agenda and direction and invite her along for the ride, as she wants the journey too, but wants you to be the driver and her the passenger.

[Husband321]

Things went well last night.  We were together all evening and decided to go to dinner.

I gave her her ring back and told her "I want you to wear this"

At first she said "ok but this doesn't mean we are back together"

I stayed calm and said ok, I just want you to wear it.

Then she smiled and hugged and kissed me and seemed very happy. 

I still have some anxiety about what will happen.  All her things are in storage and she is nowhere to go expects hotel but she has plenty of money to live anywhere she wants.  She has stopped any house searching for now. 

[abraxus]

It's natural to be anxious, but stop. Things are moving back in your direction, but anxiety will just cause you to try and rush things, which will push her away again and put you back to square one.

Right now she's stopped moving away from you, which is a huge plus. She's even starting to move back towards you. Keep your nerve and maintain your stance and allow her to do that slowly, at her own speed.

Things are getting back on your terms, and so you just have to be patient, as if you try to force them you'll undo all your good work.

I know it's hard, but just look at the progress you've made in just a couple of days. Trust those results and keep it up and things will only get better.

[Husband321]

It is REALLY tough to maintain my composure. 

This morning was great.  Made love a couple of times.  Same look in her eye. Etc.

We made plans to go to the farmers market today cook etc. 

So she was asleep, taking a nap, and I told her I had to run a few errands.  I'll be back shortly.

Before I get home she calls to say she is going to the salon again(third time in a week) as she wants her hair lighter. Which means she basically broke the plans we had.  I was hurriedly driving home to see if she took all the things with her that she just brought over.  She left everything here. 

So I assume she really is going to the salon as she must come back with her hair lighter.  But it just causes so much anxiety where as if I leave the home, I am assuming she might just take off again.  At anytime. 

Is this salon visit another test?  Forgot our plans?  Wants to see how I will react? Or just thinks it is totally normal to go off to the salon again with no prior mention at all.  She never once said her hair is too dark.  Might want to lighten it etc.  all of a sudden she goes from nap, to making an appt to changing hair color within 1 hour. 

[abraxus]

Stop trying to guess what she's thinking, and stop trying to figure out her every little move. It's impossible and will drive you nuts. Who knows? Maybe she wants to look good for you, so compliment her on how good she looks when she gets back.

Focus only on the big picture. She's still there and she's left her stuff there. Also she seems happy.

You're winning, so try not to worry so much.

[Husband321]

Stop trying to guess what she's thinking, and stop trying to figure out her every little move. It's impossible and will drive you nuts. Who knows? Maybe she wants to look good for you, so compliment her on how good she looks when she gets back.

Focus only on the big picture. She's still there and she's left her stuff there. Also she seems happy.

You're winning, so try not to worry so much.

Thanks.  She texted me from the salon telling me how long it will take.  Also that she can't wait to go out with me tonight.

Just feel so anxious wondering if this  great weekend will lead up to "well I told you I am getting my own place" on Monday. 

Part of the problem is how I am handling this.  I keep focusing on the big picture, instead of enjoying day to day... .I am not sure of a good way to relax and just appreciate that she is here now, which would most likely make her want to stay.

So far have been doing s good job of not bringing anything up.  But by seindah night /Monday am we will have had to have this talk.

[abraxus]

Whoah stop!

You don't need to have any talk, and if you think like that you're going to want to bring it up and push it, which will backfire and put the power back in her hands. As you say, you've done a good job of not bringing anything up, and you can see the results of that for yourself

You've made your position clear, so just stand your ground on that. She's the on who moved her stuff out, and so if a talk about that needs to happen, then let her be the one to bring it up. As you've already seen, the more you do nothing, the more effort she seems to make, because she's has. You've said all you need to say, and now it's up to her. If she says she wants to move her stuff back, then don't go overboard with the enthusiasm. Tell you're happy to take her back, as long as she understands what you want and expect from her.

To be honest, the biggest issue seems not to be about BPD on her part, but anxiety and insecurity on your part, as if you feel it she'll sense it too, and will get cautious. You've managed to get a grip on that and she's responding positively and so, the longer you stay strong, the stronger more confident you'll start to feel.

However, you need to maintain it, no matter what she throws at you, as she will test you. So, if she says she's getting her own place on Monday, then don't let it throw you one jot. Simply tell her that you've already told her exactly what you want from her, that you mean it, and won't settle for anything less, but that you fully respect her decision if she feels she can't give herself to you 100%. Tell her that despite that, you want her to be happy too, and that you'd be happy to offer her any help in finding a place, if that's what she really wants.

Yeah, yeah, I know it's scary, but the only way it will work in the long run is by her choosing that it's really want she wants. If you push her, or put the slightest pressure on her, she may stay for a bit, but will always question whether it was what she really wanted. She needs to have the freedom of the option for an out, that you won't make difficult or challenge, and instead will support, as well the option of staying put, with you taking the lead. She needs to know that you want her, completely and utterly, but that you don't need her, and can still be happy without her.

So, when you go out tonight, don't bring up the relationship. Just concentrate on having a fun night out, with no pressure or expectations on either side.

[Husband321]

Whoah stop!

You don't need to have any talk, and if you think like that you're going to want to bring it up and push it, which will backfire and put the power back in her hands. As you say, you've done a good job of not bringing anything up, and you can see the results of that for yourself

You've made your position clear, so just stand your ground on that. She's the on who moved her stuff out, and so if a talk about that needs to happen, then let her be the one to bring it up. As you've already seen, the more you do nothing, the more effort she seems to make, because she's has. You've said all you need to say, and now it's up to her. If she says she wants to move her stuff back, then don't go overboard with the enthusiasm. Tell you're happy to take her back, as long as she understands what you want and expect from her.

To be honest, the biggest issue seems not to be about BPD on her part, but anxiety and insecurity on your part, as if you feel it she'll sense it too, and will get cautious. You've managed to get a grip on that and she's responding positively and so, the longer you stay strong, the stronger more confident you'll start to feel.

However, you need to maintain it, no matter what she throws at you, as she will test you. So, if she says she's getting her own place on Monday, then don't let it throw you one jot. Simply tell her that you've already told her exactly what you want from her, that you mean it, and won't settle for anything less, but that you fully respect her decision if she feels she can't give herself to you 100%. Tell her that despite that, you want her to be happy too, and that you'd be happy to offer her any help in finding a place, if that's what she really wants.

Yeah, yeah, I know it's scary, but the only way it will work in the long run is by her choosing that it's really want she wants. If you push her, or put the slightest pressure on her, she may stay for a bit, but will always question whether it was what she really wanted. She needs to have the freedom of the option for an out, that you won't make difficult or challenge, and instead will support, as well the option of staying put, with you taking the lead. She needs to know that you want her, completely and utterly, but that you don't need her, and can still be happy without her.

So, when you go out tonight, don't bring up the relationship. Just concentrate on having a fun night out, with no pressure or expectations on either side.


Thanks.  The only thing that has ever worked in the past is when I have given her space and stopped chasing. Then within a day or two she misses me terribly.

My conflict lies in wondering do I need to show her she is completely loved by me chasing? Would seemingly acting indifferent to her leaving lead her to think "he really doesn't care too much" .   I mean simply letting her go after telling her my stance.  Not necessarily indeifferent.

Also, her being impulsive scares me.  Which leads me to feeling anxious and feeling I need to act.  .  She really would be the type to sign a lease , change her mind 3 days later, then when I take her back she just wasted thousands of dollars.

But overall I agree with you.   It's just the impulsive mistakes that scare me.

[Husband321]

As a side note , I am amazed at the energy she has had this past week. 

She moved out, moved things into storage, different hotels, got a p o box, several trips to salon and malls, saw me wed, Thur, fri, sat.

While when she was here, it was having migraines, back ache, tired, sit around most of the day, etc.

[abraxus]

And here's the answer to your conflict. No! You do not show her that she's completely loved by chasing. That just shows her that you're needy and desperate, which is the last thing any woman wants. She knows how much you love her, you've already told her that. Besides, you've already said that the only thing that's worked in the past is not chasing. So why on earth would it work now?

Besides, this isn't about how much you love her, she knows that. This is about her wanting you to own her, and you can only do that by being the dominant partner and putting your foot down. It means having her respect you, and a woman can't respect a man who chases after her.

You're not being indifferent in the slightest. You've told her what you want, which is her, and told her what you expect from her. That's the very opposite of indifference, and is just being assertive, which so far she seems to like very much. You're just making it clear that you're the one in charge and won't be a doormat.

Like I said, there's nothing you can do about her impulsiveness, you just have to accept it. If she signs a lease and then changes her mind, it's her problem, and maybe she'll learn a lesson from it. Besides, being not scared, and putting your anxiety aside, is the only thing that seems to have stopped her in her tracks, and making her signing a lease less likely, so don't backtrack.

Like most people, they'll find the time and energy when they want it. Just don't let her pull the wool over your eyes about being tired, if she comes back. She'll get lazy if you allow her to, but that's not what she wants, she wants you to push her and take charge.

[Husband321]

I agree with all of your advice and thank you.

She is still at the hair salon, so most likely plans have been broken twice today.  Because of her hair... .she is really at the salon as I  drove by, but here is another issue we have had that is tough to navigate.

She had many "grand plans".  Homeschooling future kids, wants to cook 3 times a day, start various businesses, work out daily, etc.

But as an example, just to do her hair, she was at the salon TWICE on Thursday, all day Tuesday, and all day today. That is literally about 23 hours at the salon in one week. Her hair has been absolutely perfect. 

But anytime I have said something about poor time
Management, she get deeply wounded. If I merely point this out,  she might get really defensive. 

How do I "guide" her without being controlling? 

[abraxus]

You're welcome.

I'll be honest, with the best will in the world, I can't micro manage every aspect of your relationship, that would be a full time job. So, let's just concentrate on one step at a time, and the first step is getting her back. We're well on the way with that, and after that you can worry about the details.

For now, forget about other stuff, like her impulsiveness, or her poor time management. Right now they're not your concern, they're hers. Treat her behaviours as how she acted around the old you, and that the more you assert the new you, and the more she gets accustomed to it, then the more her behaviours will change. Be be mindful that won't happen overnight, so stop trying to fix everything in one weekend, as you can't, and will fail if you try.

Don't make the mistake of thinking that this is easy for her, even though she may make it look that way. She's insecure and confused, and so probably just as anxious as you. Maybe spending time at the salon is her way of trying to relax and deal with it, perhaps it calms her. Maybe she's excited about dinner with you tonight, and wants to make the effort. Don't forget, she's told you that she wants to be submissive, and submissive women love to please and look their best for their man, so be appreciative that she's doing it for you. If I was taking a woman out to dinner, and she spent the whole day in the salon, I'd be pretty thrilled, thinking that she must really care and be into me. So, don't tell her that her hair was perfect before, that will just be dismissive of her efforts, and instead tell her beautiful she looks.

You see, anxiety has a habit of twisting things, and making you worry about things that may actually be positive.

So, forget her time management for now, and how long she spends at the salon. Think of her as a woman who's happy and excited about having dinner with you, and who wants to please you and make a good impression by looking her best.

[Husband321]

Well I messed up.  Last night we both had a lot to drink.

She left the room and I went to look at her phone.  She changed the passcode. (We always had open phones).  I got mad... .put her stuff by the door. She claims she didn't want me to see the homes she is looking at or attorneys she called.  It just all
Made me think the worst, that she is looking super pretty to date immediately

She stayed the night, we had sex today, and are going to have lunch. 

However I still have waves of resentment for what she did. I love her but harbor anger. She got very close to my son.  Very close. And she does not care at all.  The way she just disappeared. The way she pushed for engagement.  Marriage. All for seemingly nothing. 

It was so hard to even get to this point.  She had a custody battle for a year. A home in another state she would never be at and would live with me and drive every other weekend for ten hours to be with me. And finally, once we are finally able to be together, she takes off. 

This has been her pattern.  Once we could live together, she looked for excuses to leave. I saw her notes one day and it had things like "he doesn't like onions, still has baby furniture in his basement" etc.

During one conversation she told me she was leaving as she has to work on Herself. Packed and ready to go.  Then the next day she buys me a 5000 dollar engagement ring. After I bought her a ring a few weeks later she said she didn't want to marry anymore.  And left.

Then she begged for me back, to sell her house and live with me. Once that happened she left again, saying it was too much.  Then she begged again. Begged for marriage. Once married she did the same.  She needs to work on herself.

For an entire year it was her fantasy and dreams about a home, farm, kids, family. We must have looked at 500 houses together to buy.  All she always wanted to do was talk about our future.

I am sure I did fail some of her tests these past few weeks.  It's not easy.  But at the end of the day perhaps this is the life she wants.  Sort of chaos.  Living out of her car.  Drama.  Etc.  that's all I have ever known of her. 

I am not sure at this point why she wants to stay the weekend. Just to have sex and hug and kiss me?  Hoping she will have a hange of mind?  Really loves me?  Loves me but can be two different people?  I have no idea

[abraxus]

Well yes, you did mess up. Especially as things were going so well until then.

As for now, it's really up to you, and what you want. You can't change the past, and can only affect the present, and influence the future, and so looking at her phone was a pointless thing to do.

She stayed because at least part of her wants to try and make it work. The part that thinks you might have changed into a more confident, secure, dominant man. However, acting jealous and possessive is the opposite of that, so who knows what she thinks now.

Like I said, what you do next is dependent on what you want, but it's hard to advise you if you're going to do the opposite.

[Husband321]

I agree. It was a big mess up


As of now we had lunch.  She does know I am serious About my. Kundaires



She asked again about 2 houses.   And I said no. I am not willing to do that. Then she asked about schooling to be an Astetician.  I said I totally support that.

Still nothing is in stone or taken for granted.  And I admit my mistakes. 

[abraxus]

Well don't beat yourself up about it too much. These things happen, and it seems that no real harm was done. Just learn from it and keep moving forwards, and look at the positives.

The fact that she asked about two houses is an enormous positive. It's now switched from her insisting she was going to move out, to her asking you about it. So, take every little step like that as a big win, instead of expecting miracles to happen overnight.

It's natural to want it all at once, but you can only get there by taking one small step at a time, and consolidating on that.

[RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING]

RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members are welcomed to express frustration but must seek constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[Husband321]

Well I took your advice and didn't bring anything up last night or this morning.

As I was leaving for work she said "if I can I would like to stay the night tonight too"

I said I was glad she was staying, and once again liked her school idea.

Still in limbo but it appears she might be coming around

[abraxus]

There, you see. If you say calm, she stays calm, and things seems to get better.

You we're convinced she'd be gone by today, and yet she's asking stay again.

DON'T be tempted to ask her of she's still looking for a place. Just forget the subject. If you ask her, she may say yes, because you've put her on the spot, and she will feel embarrassed and won't want to appear to have backed down. Just go with the flow and act normal.

If she mentions it, and say that she is, or has found a place, then don't react. Just repeat that you're happy for her if that's what she really wants, but calmly remind her that you've told her what you want, and would prefer her to stay.

[Husband321]

It's almost like torture for me... .

Came home yesterday and she is making small talk but just seems shut down.

I just left her alone for a bit to do some work on my lap top outside.

We started talking about us.  I led into it by asking if she is ok.
Probably a mistake. 

She said she still wants two houses and didn't remember telling me yesterday that she wanted to work it out and go to school.  Also notice wedding ring was off.  Which upset me. She said "what's he point to being together? I just don't want to be married"

I said ok fine.  I can help you pack stuff in the morning if you like.  She then got mad. Mad face.  Said she didn't understand.  This morning she is telling me she loves me, and wants to stay one more day to really "think"

[abraxus]

Not sure how many times I can say it, but I'll try again.

DON'T talk about "us" or the relationship, and NEVER bring it up or lead into it, however subtly, EVER.

Every time you do she'll back away, until you push her away for good. I'll tell you one thing for a fact, she will never remember what she said yesterday, or even five minutes ago. She can only think in the moment, and so the minute you make her feel uncomfortable by putting pressure on her and asking if she's ok, or talking about the relationship, then that's the uncomfortable feeling that you, and you alone put her in.

Don't fall for any over affectionate behaviour on her part either, by getting carried away. Don't be dismissive either, just accept it, but perhaps a tiny bit grudgingly. When she gives, you give, but just a little less, and when she pulls away, you do too, but a bit more.

Taking the wedding ring off and talking about houses are tests, to see if and how you react, and you seem to fall for it each time. You presented a more dominant persona, by telling her what you wanted, and that you won't settle for less. That stopped her in her tracks, and has caused her to stay put for now. However, she's not simply going to trust your words, she's going to keep testing you, relentlessly, to see if your actions live up to them. So, each time they don't, like yesterday, she'll back away again. She's really not being as fickle as you may think, she's just acting in an uncertain way, because your inconsistency is confusing her. All she's doing is reacting to you and your nervousness, which puts her on edge, whereas your calm confidence relaxes her and makes her more comfortable.

As you can see, the minute you stood your ground again, and said you'd help her pack, she reversed again and got confused once more, and was upset.

Thankfully though, you still haven't done irreparable damage, as yet again she's asked to stay one more day to think. You really do need to stop feeling tortured and recognise how much progress this is, given that she was meant to be gone yesterday. Whatever you do, do not ask her how she's feeling, what she's thinking, or talk about the relationship. Definitely don't ever say that you're upset, as that will be seen as a sign of weakness on your part, and she'll pull away hard, possibly for good. Just act naturally, as though everything is normal, and that things are going your way, even if it doesn't feel like it.

The only reason you feel tortured is that you want everything now, and that's not going to happen; so if you need that then you may as well give up now. Expect at least a month before you get back to any kind of stability, and expect to be tested hard throughout that, so be on your guard and keep your emotions in check. Use that month to take things slowly and gradually assert yourself. Show that you're not afraid of uncertainty, and can take things in your stride.

You also need to understand what progress is and what it looks like, so you can feel more confident as you go along. What it isn't, is her declaring undying love and saying that she'll stay forever, as firstly that's unlikely, and secondly it's meaningless, as five minutes later she can forget saying it and change her mind, especially if you get too carried away and enthusiastic. Progress for now is simply every single day that she stays and doesn't move out, and so be glad of that, as it's huge.

As I said before, even if she does move out, DO NOT react, as it will likely be another test, especially if you trip up again. If she brings up the subject of two houses, then calmly remind her that you've already told her that's not what you want, but that if she really and truly wants it, and doesn't want to be yours, then you'll respect her wishes and wish her all the best.

I know it's hard being in the middle of it, but trust me, things are going far far better than you think, and way better than you expected a few days ago, so try to remain positive.

[F50Lurker]

Run and don't look back.  That's your best course of action.  Good luck.

[Husband321]

So yesterday she brought the topic up.  She said "I have been thinking and decided I want my own place"

I more or less said "you know I won't accept that.  But if you have to do that then it means the end of us, but I'll help you put the things in your car" I said I was going out to eat and she is welcome to come.

She wanted to go with me. While out to eat she explained to me what triggered her.  The constant bickering and coldness over the weekend. She then said she wants to stay married but have her own place. She asked the waitress if it is a good idea to live alone as a married couple.  The waitress thought she was crazy and said of course not.

The night went well and she told me she can't live without me.

This morning she woke up and said she has a lot to do today.  And needs to find a new hotel. I told her I'm not going to be with her if she decides to randomly ray at hotels when she wants.

She then said she won't get a hotel for the rest of this week. But will look for her own place next week.  I said ok that's fine.  But you know I won't have a marriage or relationship like that.

She then told me she was happy she was staying. Is this constant testing to see if I remain in control? It seems when I let her go she won't. Where as before asking or begging led her to be more entrenched. 

[abraxus]

Your last paragraph tells you everything you need to know. When you let her go she comes running back, but when you beg or chase she moves away. It's what I've been telling you all along, stand firm and let her come to you.

The fact she talked about, and told you what triggered her is a huge positive step. The bickering she's talking about is when you bring up things like the relationship or her ring. That puts pressure on her, makes you seem weak and needy, and so she sees it as bickering, can't handle it, and pulls away.

So, as I keep saying, don't ever bring up the relationship, or any issues, and NEVER talk about your feelings. Just act normal, as though she's living back at home. Never say how well things are going, it will trigger and she'll panic, just let her feel it by your actions. Be a little warmer towards her, and make her feel rewarded for staying, but don't go overboard. The more you act normal about her being there, the more she'll feel that it's normal and the right thing to do.

I know you panic because she keeps talking about hotels and moving, but you need to remember that it's not what she says that matters, it's what she does. She was meant to be going on Monday, and has now said she'll stay till next week. That clearly says she doesn't want to go, and just needs you to stand firm and reassure her it's the right choice. Be warned though, you can't do that by discussing it with her, bringing it up, or logic and reason. You can only do that by your actions and standing your ground.

Yes, she is testing you, but please understand that she's not doing it deliberately and probably doesn't even know she's doing it. Her tests are instinctive reactions, to protect herself because she feels vulnerable. She feels insecure about the relationship and needs constant reassurance that you want her and won't let her go. Nothing you can say to her will change those feelings, and it's only your actions that keep reassuring her, so keep it up.

I know it seems crazy that she feels so insecure, when you love her so much, but that's just the reality of how she thinks, and no amount of reason or logic will get round that.

Hopefully you're starting to see just how powerful your actions are. Every time you slip she backs off, but as soon as you stand firm again she comes back. The fact that she's staying till Monday should make you more comfortable and give you some breathing space. Just use that time to relax and enjoy each other's company. Never panic or slip, be calm, in control and a little more dominant, even if you don't always feel it inside.

If you're uncertain of anything, or unsure of what to say or how to act, then don't react hastily. Take a breath, take your time and, if necessary, just ask.

With each day things seem to be going more and more your way, so try to remember that, no matter what she may say, and remain positive.

[Husband321]

Well I am taking your advice although not perfectly. 

She seems to be a master of mixed signals/confusion.

This morning positive signs.  She is going to get her stuff from the extended stay hotel and bring it home. She asked me what to cook for dinner. Said she is not staying at s hotel anymore... .

Then when all is fine, and I am leaving for work she says "I just have so much to do today. I need to find a house to live in"

Which again, I tell her "ok that's fine.  You know how I feel".  Then she says "I told you from day one I don't want to live together". Which led to me basically saying "fine. Just leave now.  I'm tired of all this". She said she wants to stay.

Now she is sexting  me while I am at work asking what she should wear when I get home.

Is there a point I should lay down an ultimatum? Is she respecting me while using this extreme push and pull? 

[abraxus]

Yes, she is respecting you, after all she asked you what she should wear. Do not, under any circumstances, lay down an ultimatum.

I know the push/pull is hard, but she's not doing it deliberately, and probably isn't even aware of it. In truth she's as much a victim of it too, as she's being pushed and pulled by her own emotions, which she can't control.

You seem to be doing fine, although try not to react when she talks of getting a house. Just keep calm and pay more attention to what she does than what she says. If she brings it up and looks for a response, just repeat that you've told her what you want.

What I suggest you do for now is text her back telling her what you want her to wear for when you get home.

[Husband321]

She texted me she possibly might want to work things out under certain conditions.  I said tell me and I'll think.

1.  she will move back in once I find a new home for us as she does not like living in the same house I had with my ex wife.

2. Wants me to trust her and not go through her phone (we never had codes and she is guilty of this as well. Probably happened 3 times on my part.  3 on here)

3. Wants to go back to school (1 yr program)

4. Wants to start a family.

So clearly these WERE our plans, but I am not even sure how to respond knowing she can just disappear like this at anytime, and has the means to do so.

[abraxus]

Well you just have to either put aside your fears of her disappearing again, or decide you can't and move on, as that's nothing you have any control over... On the plus side, you've seen how your behaviour has affected things positively, so if you can keep it up she may be more consistent.

Did she text you those 4 points? Are they things that you wanted all along anyway?

If so then that looks pretty good. From supposedly leaving you a week ago, she's now saying she wants to work things out in a way that you stay together.

If possible, try to avoid discussing big things like this over text, at least in any detail, as it can get rapidly out of control. I suspect she may prefer it as it feels safer than face to face if she's not sure how you'll react. So, reassure her, and tell her your pleased that she's able to tell you what she wants, and that you like her thinking, and that it seems you both want the same things. Tell her that you're really pleased with her for being so open, and that you appreciate it. Then remind her what to wear for when you get home.

[Husband321]

I got home last night and we had a quick conversation about her conditions.

I agreed with most, not all , and she had no resistance.  Said she loves me so much, and is so happy we are working things out.  She is moving stuff back in. Her expressions, way she looked at me, kissed me all changed for the positive.

Interestingly already today she said she doesn't like her school idea. But is texting me she is seriously so happy.

So I am also pleased.  However I am not sure how she went from so cold to 100 percent "in love" without much of anything really changing.

[abraxus]

I'm really pleased to hear that things are going so well for you.

Also, give yourself some credit. In fact give yourself a lot of credit. You say you're not sure why she's done a complete 180 without much changing, but a lot has changed. The most important thing that's changed is how you've handled things. Instead of reacting and panicking, you've stayed calm, at least on the surface and from what she can see. You've calmly accepted anything she's said, whilst confidently saying that you want something different, and standing by it.

That confidence, stability and consistency seems to have certainly eased her insecurities, confusion and doubts. It's made her feel more stable, and so her response is to feel happy and to show it.

So, try to maintain that. The key is to avoid extremes, as that rubs off and makes anyone anxious. If she says or acts negatively then stay calm and revert to your position of reluctant acceptance, whilst stating what you want. If she's happy and positive, then share and enjoy that, without being too over eager or excited. Too much either way will scare her off, so it's about finding that middle ground. You seem to have found that, so just make sure you stay there, no matter how hard she may try to pull you out of it, in either direction.

[Husband321]

Well all was good for about a week. 

She also said she wants to buy a puppy to keep her company at home.  So she did. Then 2 days later she bought another puppy.  My son was in love with these puppies as well.

Then on a Sunday night I guess I said something wrong.  She packs all her stuff and puts it in the car.  Where it stayed.  She stayed with me every night though but said she was "done".

Yesterday she bought my son birthday gifts.  We had a birthday party.  Yet she is still "done"

On a hunch this morning I check a "sugar daddy" website.  Her ex mentioned this site long ago so I looked.   She has been active on the site within the past day. 

I confront her.  No remorse.  First a few lies.  Then she admits it.  Says "well it's easier than a marriage".  I asked her to leave.  She did but wanted to stay. Her profile was very sexual in nature.  No photo of her but hidden photos.  Saying she wants a high sex drive, she is uninhibited, wants to travel etc


So now I am stuck with 2 puppies as well.  Totally destroyed emotionally.

[g2outfitter]

So I just read through this whole thread for the first time... .I can't tell you how many times I cringed.  Your story and mine have so many similarities it is scary - luckily my exBPD had to keep the dogs.

Tell me Husband321... .is having to consult with abraxus on which hoop to jump through for the rest of your life really what you want?  Do you really want to wake up every single day of your life wondering if I make one mistake today will the shoe drop... .again?  That's a classic case of walking on eggshells!

I bet you would give your left arm to have a stable and secure life with your wife.  Do you think that could realistically happen?

I know how hard it is for you but you have to somehow find a way to walk away.  Seriously, I know how hard that is... .I lived your life for three years.  My exBPD was my life and I loved her and her daughter unconditionally.  She said so many things to make me think she felt the same.  For every crazy moment she gave me, she gave me 10 fabulous moments.  Unfortunately, it was the crazy moments that ultimately dictated her life, and our life.  My exBPD was the one who actually ended things so luckily I didn't have a choice (or else I would still be jumping through the hoops) but I am telling you... .as much pain as I am in right now, which it practically unbearable, I know I will be better off in the long run.

Just an fyi... .my exBPD changed the security code on her phone as well because she started cheating on me.  She would kiss me goodbye before work and tell me how much she loved me, then leave the house to go spend time with my replacement.  Then come home and tell me how great I was and we would make love.  Then the next day, she was having lunch with him.

My exBPD wanted to be in a relationship (mainly because of her fear of being alone), yet wanted to live the life of a single person.  Because of that she would set standards on how I should live as a loving partner, yet she didn't live by those same standards. Obviously, me being unfaithful was a mortal sin... .yet she seemed to think it was permissible on her side of the street.  I get the impression your wife wants to have that same freedom by living in two different houses.  She wants her cake and eat it too.

You have every right to see every single thing that is on your wife's phone and if you ask to see it, you shouldn't feel guilty for doing it.  Seriously, abraxus tells you it was a mistake to ask for her phone, but the fact is it's only a mistake because you're dealing with a disordered individual.  It may be a mistake because it wasn't the right hoop to jump through to keep your BPD wife from getting upset that day, but it wouldn't be a mistake with anyone else.  Besides, any normal wife wouldn't have a code on her phone that you didn't already know.  Think about that!

Also, no healthy individual would want to be "The Property" of anyone and they sure as heck wouldn't tattoo that on their butt.  I say that from experience because my exBPD had several "cover up" tattoos that she impulsively got, then had to fix with a different design later.

I don't care if you hired abraxus and paid him a million a year to tell you what to say and do every second of every day of your life... .in the long run, it will still not work out (and it's not because abraxus doesn't know what he is talking about).  It won't work out for many reasons but mainly because of these two: 1) she will never change who she is nor will she ever be happy.  You can lay your life down for this woman or you can do every single thing abraxus tells you and she still won't be happy.  2) you will have to be someone you're not and because of that, you will not be happy.  You will actually have to become completely indifferent on your feelings of whether or not your wife stays with you, or leaves.  When she threatens to leave, you have to actually feel it in your heart that you could care less and be more than willing to accept it if she does... .in order for her to stay.  Now how does that make sense?  Personally, I couldn't get to that point with my exBPD.  I never became indifferent on whether we were together or not.  If I had, she probably would have stayed because to be honest, we would have been on the same emotional level.  Stay if you want because I love you, but if you don't, meh... .I'll find someone else.  I just can't live with that mindset when I love someone so deeply.

Keep in mind, you shouldn't have to play the game with someone you love.  You shouldn't have to play the game with someone who loves you.

Trust that what is meant to happen will happen.  Trust that people who are supposed to leave will, and those who are supposed to stay will be by your side.  Trust the decisions you are the right ones for you, not for someone else.

I wish you the best my friend.  I do not envy you because I have very recently been in your shoes.  It has been by far the hardest thing I have ever dealt with in my life but I just have to believe that I will be so much better off without the dysfunction that had permeated my life.  Much peace to you.

[Husband321]

You know, it was odd when we "got back together" and all of her things were still in her car and storage. And every day going out of her way to drop hints she is leaving, yet at the same time acting like a perfect wife and step mom

Like kissing me goodbye.  Making love several times  a day. Cooking a big dinner.  Holding my hand in bed alll night. Just to tell me she is leaving.

She never admitted she lied. When I had undeniable proof of her online sugar daddy dating account she said "I never cheated.  Of course I am looking.  I told you I am leaving " that was today. 

Where as the day before she swore on my kids life, her kids life, her own life she is not on any dating sites and just wants to be alone to work on herself.

Abraxus makes good points that work.  But it is near impossible to sustain with someone who is never happy.  Either I would be too nice.  Too boring.  To mean. Too jealous. Not jealous enough.  Too possessive.  Not possessive enough. Etc

She would be super sexual, then all of a sudden just push you away.  Like certain things then not like them.

She changed her mail delivery address at least ten times.  Put her life insurance in my name to change it. It was just constant and total chaos.

[Portent]

I feel for you I've been there too. I've done the "radical acceptance" and walking on egg shells. Its not worth it. If its not you dont pretend to be something you are not. I'm a very confident person. My BPDex was attracted to that but I couldn't maintain it to the level that she demanded. I do have emotions. No man is that confident unless they are NPD which is why the NPD/BPD is the most toxic of all relationships because it is the BPD's match. The only person who can have the level of confidence that hte BPD demands is a totally fake user of people and they bleed the BPD dry.

[Husband321]

She would also say I would come home and not be "happy enough" to see her.

Just last week texting me how she is so happy we are together.  Wants to be with me forever.  Then boom.  Join a sugar daddy site and put all her stuff in her car and storage.

When I met her she was living out of her car.  She still is.  Even with close to a million liquid in cash.

now she just texted me "I never cheated. Not once".  Totally ignoring the fact she is on a sugar daddy dating site while newly married.

[g2outfitter]

She would also say I would come home and not be "happy enough" to see her.

Just last week texting me how she is so happy we are together.  Wants to be with me forever.  Then boom.  Join a sugar daddy site and put all her stuff in her car and storage.

When I met her she was living out of her car.  She still is.  Even with close to a million liquid in cash.

now she just texted me "I never cheated. Not once".  Totally ignoring the fact she is on a sugar daddy dating site while newly married.

My exBPD insisted she never cheated either... .but she was a pathological liar.  Eventually she admitted that she did.  I assure you, in some distorted way, your ex does believe she has been faithful.  She is convinced that creating a profile on Sugar Daddy is not actually cheating since she hasn't actually performed the physical act of cheating (we assume).  Or, she is convinced in her head that you two are no longer together so whatever she choses to do at this point is acceptable therefore she isn't cheating.

Please understand... .I am not here to try and make you feel bad.  I know how much you are hurting but I want to tell you the truth.  You have to eventually wrap your head around what is truth and what is fiction.  I would have never believed in a million years that my exBPD could have not loved me and or cheated on me because I was absolutely certain she was just as dedicated to me as I was to her.  Nonetheless, the cheating and mountain of lies happened right before my eyes. I eventually discovered the truth but I still didn't want to believe it.  My therapist told me what was going on, but I didn't want to believe it.  My family and friends told me what was going on but I didn't want to believe it.  Hell, looking back on it, my exBPD basically showed me what was going on, I just couldn't get my stubborn head out of the sand.

Your wife is playing you, exactly as my exBPD played me. 

Me and my ex lived together for three years but all of a sudden and out of the blue, she said she needed space and wanted me to move out.  I spent 10 days trying to convince her not to end things but it didn't matter, her mind was made up.  So I moved out and got an apartment.  Within a few days she would come by and visit.  She would text me daily saying how much she loved me and missed me (I had no idea about the replacement). We would go to lunch and she would kiss me before she got out of my truck and tell me how much she loved me... .then go meet my replacement.  On Father's Day she texted me in the morning and said that she missed me and wanted me to come see her (I practically raised her infant daughter so Father's Day was special).  I told her I would come by later but I had plans to spend most of the day with my own kids.  Later in the evening I texted her to tell her I was headed her way but she responded with "No, not now, it's late and I am going to bed."  It was 7:30 pm.  I later found out that the replacement showed up at our house unannounced so she had to make sure I didn't come over to find out the truth.

Your wife knows that if she tells you what you want to hear and jumps in bed with you that you will hang on for as long as she needs you too.  She knows what she is doing.  She sees you as a security blanket while she partakes in whatever activity she wants to satisfy her needs.  Again, she seems to act like my ex - live the life of a single person, but make sure her security blanket is at home at night in case things don't always go as planned.

Granted, I am making assumptions because I am not in your shoes and I don't know all the dynamics/specifics but I am serious when I tell you, your story mirror's my own in so many ways.  The one thing I have come to find out about Borderline, is how eerily people with BPD act alike.  It truly is an unbelievable phenomenon.

Get away from this... .you are better than that and you deserve so much better.  You see the red flags... ."MY Property" tattoo, living in a car with a million in cash, lots of short term relationships in the past, unstable mood swings, irrational behavior, push and pull, unstable relationship with her mother or family.  You see them but you want to ignore them.  I bet your wife is gorgeous, has an incredibly charming personality and let's not forget about the million bucks.  You have convinced yourself she is the best you will ever find again.  I assure you, that's not true. 

My exBPD would often tell me how she is "trash".  I would always tell her that wasn't true, that she was much better than that.  I finally came to realize that you should always listen to what people tell you about themselves.  It's usually always the truth.

Nothing can substitute for your happiness... .no amount of looks, charm or money is worth living on eggshells.

[Husband321]

Yes.   In the past while dating she would make an arguement out of nowhere, take off, hook up with ex, then say it wasn't cheating as we weren't together.

When this episode started a couple weeks ago (she had a hotel but was with me every night and staying at my place) she would just say "we are married.  I would never see anyone for many months. I just need to work on myself". 

She probably never thought in a million years I would find her profile.  But it was just saying she wants no strings, she is sexually uninhibited, and needs a guy with a high drive."  Literally made me sick and when confronted she had nothing really to say.  Except "I never cheated, and I told you I was moving out". Along with "I never lied.  I told you I didn't want a relationship.  This isn't for a relationship. It's no strings". But one week before literally was trying to get pregnant and buy a home with me.  We looked at several.

I really just can't do it.  I'm not even that hurt to be honest. Past hurt from her was worse. She got everything she was asking for for an entire year, then did this.

I'm glad I had her leave today instead of dragging the limbo out longer.  I at least feel I had some control. Instead of having sex with someone and playing house with a woman who is cheating or looking to while pretending to be in love.

[Husband321]

Some other things that made it so difficult I had no idea how to cope with.

Once everything was "good" between us:

1. Then sometimes she would see a ghost she claims follows her. This would ruin the night.

2. Certain aches and pains. A migraine. Neck.  Some pain in her side.

3. Family drama.  She is not close to any person on earth.  Can't stand her mom, sister, and estranged from kids. (Mistakenly made me think that made me more important in a way)

4. Just come home and she is cold.  Won't tell

So when I look back, about 20 percent of the relationship was amazing, the rest was all about her.

She was very generous with money and amazing with my son. Loved to cook although that was always sporadic.

Her days were spent working towards a certain goal for weeks, just to quit near the end and decide she didn't want that. (Look for a beach house non stop. Then a lake house.  Then her own house.  Then something about a business. In the end never took any little step to actually finish anything. )

[g2outfitter]

My exBPD was sick ALL THE TIME. She was always complaining about migraines, stomach aches, back pain... .it amazed me how someone so young (40) was always so sick. She would always change her goals as well... .wanted to go to dental school was the last one but it was just a bunch of talk.

I hate the disorder, not the person. It's extremely frustrating and sad.

[Husband321]

Now she is already texting

"I loved you from the beginning.  Sucks really bad because I still love you. It's crazy"

[Portent]

My exBPD was sick ALL THE TIME. She was always complaining about migraines, stomach aches, back pain... .it amazed me how someone so young (40) was always so sick. She would always change her goals as well... .wanted to go to dental school was the last one but it was just a bunch of talk.

I hate the disorder, not the person. It's extremely frustrating and sad.

I think that they really are sick. The sympathetic nervous system is in overdrive with borderlines due to their over active amygdala. They are constantly in fight or flight and this tears their body's apart in the long term.

Why do you think that the cornered animal is such a common analogy? Because that is he part of their brain that is most often in control

[Portent]

Now she is already texting

"I loved you from the beginning.  Sucks really bad because I still love you. It's crazy"

Well take a gamble. Do some research here about how to broach therapy for her. That is your only option if you want to be with her. Without therapy she will not change.

[g2outfitter]

I think that they really are sick. The sympathetic nervous system is in overdrive with borderlines due to their over active amygdala. They are constantly in fight or flight and this tears their body's apart in the long term.

Why do you think that the cornered animal is such a common analogy? Because that is he part of their brain that is most often in control

I totally agree with you. I always suspected the BPD caused all her ailments. It was her internal struggles that caused physical pain.

[g2outfitter]

Without therapy she will not change.

Bingo!

[g2outfitter]

My apologies to Husband321 and everyone else on this forum. I've been posting in the wrong board. Husband321... .I pray that you can find a way to make your marriage work. Believe me, if I could, I would still be with my ex. I hate this disorder more than anything because it does so much damage to so many really good people. I wish you the very best and pray you and your wife find happiness. I pray that for everyone.

[Mutt]

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